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Refinery29's Arianna Davis sits down with Hillary Clinton to talk about her new book, "What Happened."
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00:00All the research shows that the more successful a man becomes, the more likable he becomes.
00:07The more professionally successful a woman becomes, the less likable she becomes.
00:13Ain't that the truth?
00:14Secretary Clinton spent months out of the spotlight following the biggest upset in presidential
00:19history.
00:20With the release of her new book, What Happened?, Secretary Clinton gave Refinery29 an exclusive
00:25interview about her candid memoir, which relives the 2016 presidential election.
00:30In the book, you share a lot of really personal details.
00:33What made you want to open up now, and do you regret not letting that guard down a little
00:37bit earlier?
00:38This book is my most candid explanation of not only my life, but what I believe that I've
00:48ever tried to do.
00:48It was hard, and I'm very proud of the outcome, because it was kind of cathartic.
00:55Everybody has losses.
00:57Not everybody will lose a presidential campaign, but there will be all kinds of losses and disappointments
01:03that are just part of human nature and life.
01:06So I wanted to share my story on a very personal level, behind the scenes, pulling back the curtain.
01:15Yeah.
01:15I think a lot of people did criticize you on the campaign trail for not doing that a little
01:20bit sooner.
01:21Do you ever regret that?
01:22Being a woman in public life is like being on a high wire with no net.
01:27And I have been involved in public service and in politics for much of my adult life.
01:35And there is a double standard about women.
01:38And I try to explain that.
01:40And I consulted a friend of mine, Sheryl Sandberg, who, as you know, is the COO of Facebook.
01:48And so she and two of her top researchers came to brief me before the election really got
01:54started.
01:54They said, all the research shows that the more successful a man becomes, the more likable
02:00he becomes.
02:01The more professionally successful a woman becomes, the less likable she becomes.
02:08And when you are in service for someone else, you can go and advocate.
02:12And people will accept that.
02:15But when you are trying to advocate for yourself as a woman, you are held to such a different
02:22standard than when men do the very same thing.
02:24Because we know ambition is a double-edged sword.
02:29It's fine for a young man or a man of any age to be ambitious.
02:33But a young woman or a woman of any age to be ambitious raises all kinds of dissonance
02:40in people's minds.
02:42In What Happened, Secretary Clinton offers an honest exploration of what went wrong during
02:47the 2016 election.
02:49She also brings us along on her journey toward healing in the aftermath of the campaign, with
02:54the help of her friends, her daughter Chelsea, and her husband, President Bill Clinton.
02:58Oh, he was wonderful because it was so shocking.
03:02We thought I was going to win.
03:06That's what the data we had suggested.
03:09I knew that I had taken a big hit from the letter that Director Comey from the FBI sent,
03:16which was, I thought, incredibly, unbelievably unnecessary, unprecedented, and damaging.
03:25So it was shocking.
03:26And when it happened, it was really a comfort to have him because he is my principal advisor
03:34and supporter.
03:36But he'd also lost.
03:38He'd lost two races for Congress and re-election as governor.
03:43So he knows the pain of losing.
03:46And he was able to both buck me up but also begin to point me forward.
03:55Because it was devastating.
03:56I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
03:58And I write in the very first chapter what it felt like going to the inauguration that
04:06was going to inaugurate my opponent.
04:08And I had raised so many concerns about him.
04:11I tried to warn people.
04:13And it was painful.
04:14And I felt like I owed it to the country that it was a duty that I go.
04:19So I did, Bill and I went, and then we, you know, just kind of recovered ourselves after
04:29it was over.
04:30But then the next day with the Women's March, it was exhilarating.
04:34So that gave me a big boost of, you know, spirit and encouragement.
04:40I think that a lot of young women were surprised, though, how much misogyny and sexism played
04:45a role in Donald Trump's campaign.
04:48And you write in the book that that did play a big role in the election.
04:52What lessons do you think that that taught you about men in the aftermath of the campaign?
04:57That sexism and misogyny, which I describe and differentiate, if you will, are endemic
05:06in our society still.
05:08And we elected for our president a man who bragged about groping women and sexual assault,
05:15who used vile insults to describe women, who called me nasty for challenging him.
05:25It was classic, classic misogynistic behavior.
05:29So what does that tell us?
05:31It tells us that we've made progress.
05:34I would be the first to say we have, certainly from the time I was your age and younger, but
05:40that we by no means have achieved the dream of equality in social, political and economic
05:51terms.
05:52And that when someone who is now our president in the White House gives voice to those kinds
06:02of degrading comments about women, who's caught on tape saying those kinds of things, it gives
06:12a license to people to be more outspoken against women, against our progress, against our rights.
06:23And I think it's really important for young women to recognize, yes, we've made progress,
06:29but we have to all continue to stand up for ourselves, to stand up for each other, to stand
06:36up for the laws that we need and to take on the sexism that is so prevalent and which has
06:45been given a real boost by Trump.
06:50After Secretary Clinton's stunning defeat, many looked to Ivanka Trump as a moderating
06:55force for the Trump administration.
06:56So Ivanka Trump, she started to champion a lot of the same issues that you did.
07:02She even wore a white pantsuit to inauguration, but she's kind of failed to live up to a lot
07:07of the things that she said that she would.
07:09Do you feel that she's complicit in the administration's actions and should we be sympathetic for her?
07:15The way I look at it is that the person who has to be held responsible is Donald Trump.
07:22He is the president.
07:23He listens to who he listens to.
07:26He tweets and speaks out, makes common cause with white supremacists and neo-Nazis and Ku Klux
07:35Klanners, takes away the protections that were granted to 800,000 dreamers in so many ways,
07:43just trying to impose a political agenda that is turning the clock back or attempting to do
07:52so in ways that I find not only really repulsive, but wrongheaded in terms of the kind of country
08:02we are.
08:03So everyone associated with him, they're either on board with that or they're not.
08:09And if they're not, they need to be speaking out or leaving.
08:13But if they remain silent and just give lip service to contrary points of view, then they
08:21are part of his agenda and should be judged and held accountable for that.
08:25I've been thinking a lot about the day after the election, the Refinery29 offices.
08:28There was a lot of people sobbing and crying and upset.
08:31And during your concession speech that was particularly, there was just an electric energy in the room.
08:37Is there anything that you would say to those women differently today than you did back in
08:43that speech?
08:43I think the speech was certainly reflective of my concerns at that point, which were that
08:50people would get discouraged and they would turn away from public involvement, however they
08:55defined it.
08:56I'm not so worried about that.
08:58What I am focused on now with this new organization I've started called Onward Together is to give
09:06more people, young people, the chance to participate through supporting organizations, through being
09:12online, through raising money for people who are out in the public arena.
09:17And I have a little mantra where I like to say resist, insist, persist, and enlist.
09:23Not everybody's going to run for office by any means, but you can support those who do.
09:27Whether it is standing up for DACA recipients, whether it is fighting for better rules to
09:36protect equal pay and overtime and all of the other pieces, or fighting to get healthcare
09:41for people.
09:42There's so much to be involved in now.
09:44And so I feel like the commitment is there, the passion is there, but we just have to organize
09:52ourselves as well as we can so that the maximum number of people can be involved, and particularly
09:57to vote in elections, because that's really what it all comes down to.
10:00Right, of course.
10:01One of the other things you read about in the book is your passion for moving forward the
10:05Democratic Party.
10:05Do you feel that abortion litmus tests are necessary for the Democratic Party in red states?
10:12I have to say that I am proud to be a Democrat, and I am proud of all the progress
10:17that's happened
10:18in my own lifetime, and I will continue to advocate for the policies of the Democratic Party.
10:23But I don't think it's either or.
10:25You need a very strong economic message, which I think I had, but it was hard to get through.
10:34And you need to stand up for human rights, social justice, and civil rights.
10:38And a woman's right to control her body and her health care decisions is a fundamental
10:48human right.
10:49One of the reasons I was proud to have Tim Kaine on my ticket is that he's personally opposed
10:55to abortion.
10:56He's a practicing Catholic.
10:58But he, like Mario Cuomo long before, recognized that you have to protect the rights of individuals
11:07to make the most important and intimate decisions.
11:11And reproductive rights are important in order to make clear that we want to give women a
11:19choice.
11:20Well, to end this interview, we're finally at 29.
11:22We love owning your power, and we are big fans of the power pose.
11:27Mine is kind of something like a little, that makes me feel confident.
11:31Do you have a go-to power pose that makes you feel powerful?
11:34Let me see here.
11:35It's hard to do sitting down, but I think, you know, sitting up straight and just looking
11:42as fearless as you can about whatever lies ahead of you out there.
11:46And just being unapologetic to own your own power and who you are.
11:51I love it.
11:51Thank you so much, Secretary Clinton.
11:53I appreciate it.
11:54Thank you so much.
11:54Thank you so much.
11:55Thank you so much.
11:55Thank you very much.