- 16 minutes ago
Lately, Tony/Grammy/Emmy award winning actress Cynthia Nixon is more frequently recognized for her activism than her iconic roles. Fighting for marijuana legalization, more funding in public schools and raising taxes for the one percent, Nixon is working to change New York for the better and make it a community for ALL. Just weeks before the primary, we sat with Nixon to talk about her plans as she aims to land her next big role...as governor.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Since Cynthia Nixon launched her campaign running for governor,
00:31there's been one question on a lot of people's minds. Is she really serious? But this woman is
00:37no protest candidate. Cynthia Nixon is sincere and determined to be New York State's next governor.
00:44We're all familiar with Cynthia's career as an accomplished actor. She is, in fact,
00:48just one Oscar away from that elusive EGOT. She began performing at age 12 to save up money for
00:54college, because education was always the priority, even when she started landing prestige roles on
01:00stage and screen. Growing up in a middle-class, one-parent household, Cynthia was a public school
01:06kid, and she loved it. By the time she had her own children, she was a wealthy celebrity, starring on
01:12one of the most popular and beloved shows in television history. But Cynthia was determined
01:18to send her kids to public school, too. And that was the catalyst. Cynthia was outraged to see how
01:24much the schools had changed. As a lifelong New Yorker, she'd always kept abreast of local politics
01:30and supported causes she believed in. Now she was passionately pivoting from advocate to activist.
01:36Cynthia joined the Alliance for Quality Education, working on funding and policy change. She later lobbied
01:43for marriage equality and pressed lawmakers on health care reform. The deeper she got, the more
01:49driven she became. Like so many others, her beloved home state had been ravaged by inequality.
01:55This is New York, she thought. Can't we do better than this? Six months into her campaign,
02:01that phrase has become a rallying cry. We can do better, Cynthia reminds us again and again.
02:07But can she do better? Voters are wondering. And her opponent is Andrew Cuomo, a seasoned politician
02:14from a historic political family, someone who's not quite ready to give up the governorship.
02:20Cynthia, however, seems undaunted by him and her naysayers. It was Cynthia who challenged Cuomo
02:27to a public debate, inviting constituents to see for themselves that she's both committed
02:31and capable. And it was she who pressured the incumbent to clarify his stances on issues like
02:38legalized marijuana and immigration incarceration. There's no doubt Cynthia Nixon is running to win.
02:45But the fact is, in many ways, she already has. Because whatever happens at the polls on September
02:5113th, Cynthia has become one of the key women at the forefront of a political revolution, a radical
02:58shift being led by a legion of first-time female candidates. She's out there and already a leader.
03:05And we're pretty sure this is just the beginning.
03:18Cynthia Nixon, it is such a pleasure to have you as a guest on On Style today.
03:21Thank you. Such a pleasure to be here.
03:22Thank you. So I would love to open up this conversation with an event, a fundraiser that
03:28I actually attended pretty recently in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. And it was packed. It was very hot.
03:35People really came from all corners of New York. And there was such a really beautiful energy
03:40in the room, such anticipation, just waiting for you to arrive. And you opened up the conversation,
03:47you opened up your talk with a very personal story about your mom. And it was really around
03:53a rent discrepancy in the building that you were living in when you were young. And I would love for
03:59you to tell us about that story.
04:00Sure. So after my parents split up, I was about six, and we moved to a one-bedroom,
04:07five-flight walk-up, my mom and I. And we were there a few years, maybe three years.
04:14And one day she came to me and she was really agitated. She obviously had something important
04:20to tell me. And she said that she had been suspicious lately about the rent that we had
04:24been paying. And so she actually went and checked it out, checked out the record of what the rent was
04:31supposed to be. And she discovered that our landlord had been lying to us and that he had been lying
04:35to
04:35us ever since we moved in. And that she was really angry, first of all, because the rent had been
04:42really hard for her to come by every month. But what I most especially remember is how proud she was
04:49of herself, that she hadn't just believed what she was told, that she trusted her own intuition,
04:57that she trusted her hunch. And she investigated, and she caught him in the lie, and she confronted
05:03him about it. And she held him accountable, and she held him accountable retroactively. And she got
05:08our rent reduced, and she got our money refunded. And it was, I mean, I can tell you a million
05:12stories
05:13like that about my mother. But that, to me, was a really important first one that, you know, I was
05:19about nine, of her standing up for herself and questioning and standing up and winning. And I feel like
05:29all of the moments when I have, including now, when I have stood up and done that, it's because my
05:35mom
05:35showed me that I could. It's because my mom showed me that actually, I'm a chump if I don't.
05:39Yeah. I think that what was so important about that story is that I felt like everybody in that room
05:45could relate to that story, because it was about sort of really having nothing to lose, and having to
05:51really go out on a limb, and challenge somebody that you didn't feel like you, it was appropriate to
05:56challenge, or that you didn't have the right. Or that you felt like you had the power position
05:59in that confrontation, but you felt you were right, and then you explored, and then you
06:04realized you were right. Yeah. And I think there's something about that tone, and about that connection
06:10to real people, and real issues, and that sense of democratization among all of us, and that we're
06:16all in this together, that I just felt like everybody, you could have heard a pin drop that night when
06:21you actually told that story, and it was a really beautiful way to open up the conversation.
06:24And I think that that's something, as women, that we have to just get better at. We have to get
06:31better at trusting our hunches, and trusting our opinions, even if someone in authority is telling
06:39us to move along, or telling us that we're wrong, or, oh, telling us, oh, little Missy, you don't know
06:45how the big bad world works.
06:47Well, I think we're so used to so much scrutiny, and I think that, you know, we've observed it,
06:51if we look at, you know, Secretary Clinton's campaign, I mean, the degree of scrutiny that
06:55she got that a lot of so many other candidates would never get. It's just so staggering.
06:59Yeah.
07:10There's a record number of women running for governor in Congress this year, and it's women
07:14like yourself, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, whom you endorsed.
07:18And who I was endorsed by.
07:20Yes. Who are coming to the table with the boldest, and I believe the most progressive ideas,
07:25from Abolish ICE to tuition-free public college. What do you think is motivating so many female
07:31progressives to run this year?
07:33Well, I think certainly Donald Trump being in the White House.
07:38Maybe the one thing we can thank him for.
07:40Thanking him is maybe far, but I think that there is a way in which he has thrown us back
07:47on our heels, right? In a way that we, when Obama was president, say, we figured, oh, the
07:52president, he'll handle it.
07:55I can go back to whatever I'm focused on. But I think, you know, you saw the attacks on
08:00women by Donald Trump in his speech, in his history, and then you see what he's doing,
08:07you know, Roe versus Wade is really hanging in the balance of, after decades of us fearing
08:13that it was, now it actually is.
08:16And so I think that women across this country, partly inspired by the horror of what Donald
08:24Trump is doing to our country, partly inspired by Hillary Clinton, and partly inspired by Bernie
08:31Sanders. I mean, I think that those two Democratic nominees really got a lot of people involved in
08:38politics in a way that they hadn't been before. I think the prospect of the first female president,
08:44it seemed like so much like it was going to happen. And it was incredible. And then Bernie
08:50Sanders, somebody who took something that just a few years ago seemed like it was maybe a pipe dream,
08:56single payer health care, and really moved it front and center, at least in Democratic circles as
09:02something that is the next big fight, and that progressives are really putting their firepower
09:08behind.
09:09You really feel like one of those candidates, one of those kinds of candidates, you know,
09:13that really breaks out on the scene and that we can pay attention to because you are so different
09:18from a lot of the other candidates that we're seeing.
09:19Well, I think that that's part of the thing, too, is I think that certainly a lot of an overwhelming
09:25number of the people who are running for office for the first time are women, but also...
09:30Isn't it exciting?
09:30It is so exciting.
09:32I mean, Stacey Abrams and seeing all these incredible, qualified, accomplished, you know,
09:37women that are setting examples for young women today, not just to run for office, but to step out
09:43and actually sort of, you know, claim a platform and talk about things that are not easy to talk about.
09:49But also people of color, queer people, immigrants, Muslims.
09:56I mean, we're really seeing, it is the backlash to Donald Trump, right?
10:01I mean, I think it's the backlash to the white capitalist who's trying to roll us back to 1952.
10:09So going back to some of the women that you've cross-endorsed, Julia Salazar, Jessica Ramos,
10:15Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, do you think that this kind of, this sisterhood that's kind of being created
10:21among women that are running today, which I think is really beautiful and inspiring because I feel
10:26like we've come from such a tradition of competition between women, do you think that's going to help us win?
10:31I absolutely think it's going to help us win.
10:34And I think that we hear a lot about female competition.
10:37That's not been my experience in my life.
10:39And certainly when you look at women in politics, I mean, look, just look at the suffragist movement.
10:44I mean, look at how those women, they formed a movement and they formed, you know, over a number of
10:50generations.
10:50They just kept passing the baton that has led us to the moment that we're at.
10:55And I think because, because women running for office face special hurdles, some of, a lot of them are external
11:03and some of them are frankly internal, the more that we can reach across to each other with a hand,
11:09with even a look and say, I see you, I see what you're doing and you're doing what I'm doing
11:15and I'm doing what you're doing and I want to amplify your voice and I want you to amplify my
11:21voice
11:21because we may be different in a lot of ways, but we're part of the same movement
11:25and we're fighting for so many of the same things.
11:28And that's when a friend first, however many months ago it was, told me to go look at Alexandria Ocasio
11:35-Cortez's website.
11:37I mean, that was the thing that struck me.
11:39Certainly she and I have a lot of differences, but we have so many similarities starting as education activists,
11:46people who are not taking corporate contributions,
11:49people who are talking about health care as a human right and abolishing ICE
11:53and Democrats and progressives who feel compelled to run for office
11:59because we're at a place, like so many voters, so far ahead of where the party establishment is.
12:08And the change that we want is really foundational.
12:10We really want to turn the system upside down
12:12because the ever-expanding inequality, economic, racial, gender inequality
12:18that's swallowing our democracy whole,
12:21so many of our elected leaders don't seem to realize that we're in a state of emergency.
12:26And I mean, I supported Hillary Clinton and I would give a lot if she was president right now,
12:32but I think even Hillary, for all of her strengths,
12:35could not grasp the moment that we were in in terms of the incredible inequity in this country
12:43and how many people were beyond struggling.
12:46I mean, we're really, really trying to survive.
12:50I mean, just the millions of people living below the poverty line.
12:53It's just really, it's astonishing.
12:55And in New York State, I mean, I think this is one of the things that,
12:58you know, we have a sense like, oh, New York, it's such a wealthy place.
13:02Wall Street, all those celebrities, you know, and it's such a progressive place.
13:07It's a two-to-one Democratic state.
13:09But because of Andrew Cuomo's empowerment of the Republicans,
13:13he's given control of the state Senate to the Republicans
13:16through his empowerment of this group called the IDC,
13:18these Democrats that have been incentivized to vote along with the Republicans.
13:23There's so little progressive change that's happening here
13:26that certainly California is doing,
13:28but Washington, Oregon, Minnesota, New Jersey,
13:31I mean, so many states that are less blue than ours
13:35have just left us in the dust.
13:38And we have more than half of the kids in our upstate cities
13:41living below the poverty line in New York State.
13:44And Syracuse has the most concentrated black and brown poverty
13:49of any single city in the entire country.
13:53And you don't think of New York that way,
13:55but it's the inequality is between the richest and the poorest is just exploding.
14:01And it's almost not far from Albany.
14:03There's almost nobody left in the middle.
14:05Yeah.
14:05When I think about that economic inequity, inequality,
14:09it makes me really happy that you're such an advocate for public school,
14:12because I think that that's actually one of the issues
14:15where economic inequality really hits the hardest.
14:18Tell me about just like what your position is on.
14:22I know a bit of a background and I know why it's so motivating for you,
14:25but I would love for you to talk about it
14:26because I do think it is something that unites all of us.
14:29So I grew up in New York.
14:30I went to public school.
14:32I mean, everybody I knew went to public school.
14:34I went to public school.
14:35I know.
14:36And I'm the mom of three kids.
14:39And when my oldest child, Sam, who's now 21,
14:42entered kindergarten 17 years ago,
14:44I walked into the school on the first day with him.
14:47And it was so different than the school that I had toured in the spring
14:50and picked out because of these massive budget cuts
14:53that had happened since I had toured it.
14:56How much time was that?
14:58Well, I picked the school probably in April, and this was September.
15:02Oh, wow.
15:02They had to let go of the art teacher, the music teacher,
15:07the assistant principal, and two-thirds of the paraprofessionals,
15:11assistant teachers and lunchroom helpers
15:13and all the extra adults that are needed in a school.
15:15And I went to a protest that afternoon with my kid.
15:20Did you get arrested then?
15:21Not that day.
15:22No, not that day, but some months later
15:25because I knew that as bad as the cuts were in my kid's school
15:29on the Upper West Side of Manhattan,
15:31the cuts in Mott Haven in the Bronx and Brownsville in Brooklyn
15:35in communities of color whose schools were already so deeply underfunded,
15:39how deep those cuts must have been.
15:41And so what I did is I joined together with other parents.
15:46I joined a group called the Alliance for Quality Education,
15:48and we organized rallies and protests, and we met with legislators,
15:51and I did get arrested.
15:53The following spring, we beat back on the citywide level
15:56almost $400 million in budget cuts.
15:59And that was the time that I realized that, you know,
16:03you can fight harder when you fight for your kid,
16:05but when you join together with other parents
16:07and you fight for all of your children together,
16:10you're a force to be reckoned with.
16:12And what I quickly learned was rather than fight budget to budget to budget
16:16on the city level, that there was actually a statewide solution
16:19called the Campaign for Fiscal Equity,
16:21which was a lawsuit that had been brought on behalf of the children of New York
16:25saying that their state constitutional rights were being violated
16:28because so little was being spent on their education in so many districts
16:32because New York's state schools are the second most unequally funded system
16:38in the entire country.
16:39They really are.
16:40Yeah, we've got a $10,000 spending gap per pupil
16:43between our 100 richest and our 100 poorest school districts.
16:46$10,000 per pupil.
16:49Where do you think that's coming from?
16:51I think that's coming from how segregated our system is.
16:55It's coming from how segregated, certainly racially,
16:58but also the fact that school funding is directly tied to property values.
17:03And that's what this lawsuit said,
17:04was that the state had to take on a much bigger share
17:08so that we could level the playing field for kids,
17:12whether they came from a rich, a poor, or an in-between school district.
17:16And $4.2 billion is owed to our kids.
17:19And this is something that Andrew Cuomo refuses to acknowledge,
17:23much less invest.
17:24And, you know, when the lawsuit was first settled in 2006,
17:27this is something I've been fighting on for 17 years,
17:29when it was first settled in 2006,
17:31Elliott Spitzer was the incoming governor,
17:33and he said, yeah, we're going to enact this.
17:35And we were halfway there toward funding it.
17:37And then Governor Patterson and Governor Cuomo came in,
17:40and they cut out all that progress,
17:42and then they cut another $0.4 billion
17:44and got us back way farther in the hole
17:46than we had been before we started paying down the lawsuit.
17:50So after year after year after year of going to Albany
17:53and saying, Andrew Cuomo, the highest court in New York State,
17:56says our kids are owed this money.
17:58Pay us this money.
17:59I decided what I think a lot of women decided this year.
18:02You know, we looked at who was in charge,
18:04and we decided that if we really wanted change,
18:07we were the ones that were going to have to stand up and bring it,
18:09because the people in office obviously weren't going to do it,
18:13weren't interested.
18:14I mean, I grew up in the suburbs.
18:16I went to public school.
18:18I went to a SUNY school.
18:20It was the only way I was ever going to have an education,
18:22because it was all my parents could afford.
18:25So I'm very passionately going to be following in your footsteps there.
18:28Yeah, I mean, that's why I started acting when I was 12,
18:31because my mom warned me early.
18:33She was like, I am not able to save any money for college.
18:35If you want to go to a private college,
18:37you better find a way to pay for it.
18:54Speaking of Governor Cuomo,
18:56so you challenged him to a debate.
18:58He's accepted.
18:59What are you most excited about,
19:01aside from, you know, what we're sort of currently talking about?
19:04What are you most excited about just saying to his face
19:07and really having a platform to have a discussion about?
19:10So first of all, he's been governor for eight years,
19:12and he hasn't had a one-on-one debate in 12 years.
19:15He avoids them.
19:17So I'm very gratified that we're going to go toe-to-toe.
19:20He actually sort of went behind our backs
19:24and with CBS decided all of the details of the debate,
19:29and we were given absolutely no input in terms of location or format
19:33or even sitting up or standing up or sitting down.
19:35But be that as it may,
19:38women often have a whole bunch of hurdles to get through.
19:42There's a higher bar for us.
19:44Nothing new.
19:44Nothing new, right?
19:45I'm really looking forward to saying,
19:47how can you call New York the most progressive state in the country
19:52when all of these things that you have promised,
19:55budget cycle after budget cycle,
19:57that never get enacted,
19:58like why haven't we strengthened our rent laws?
20:01Why have you allowed the affordability crisis to just explode?
20:06Why haven't you funded the New York City subway?
20:09Why have delays tripled in your time as governor?
20:13Why do we have the worst on-time transit record of any subway system in the country?
20:17You saw this coming year after year after year,
20:20and you continued to defund the subway.
20:23Why haven't you done real criminal justice reform?
20:26Why haven't you ended cash bail or insured a right to speedy trial?
20:30Why haven't you offered driver's licenses to our undocumented people
20:34if you really care about protecting them against ICE
20:37and Donald Trump's deportation machine?
20:41You're ready.
20:42You are ready for this debate.
20:45Earlier this week, many people on our content teams
20:47and across various departments at Refinery29
20:50were working tirelessly on this poll that we launched
20:53about millennial women and their beliefs on voting
20:55and their preferences
20:56and really just what they're thinking about voting.
20:59And it's in preparation leading up to the midterm elections.
21:03And there's a piece that's going to be coming out
21:05called The Secret Lives of Millennial Women
21:07because I think we all feel after the last election
21:09that was a real blind spot.
21:11You know, we didn't really see that so many women
21:13were not going to come out to vote.
21:15There's a lot of really, really interesting data
21:18that came out in this poll that we have shared with CBS.
21:22They've been incredibly supportive
21:23in the work that we're doing there.
21:25is that about half of millennial women
21:28do not identify as feminist.
21:30And in some cases, they really see the word feminist
21:34as not a label they would ever want attached to them.
21:38But you consider yourself a feminist.
21:41What do you think about that association
21:43with young millennial women?
21:45Well, I don't think that's anything new.
21:47I mean, I think since feminism first became
21:51a really a hot topic and an issue of debate,
21:54say in the 60s, it's been a very polarizing term.
21:58Why do you think it is?
21:59Well, I think that women don't want to be seen
22:04as too confrontational or too angry
22:07or too much of a nag, right?
22:10Women want to be seen as inviting
22:12and, you know, able to get along.
22:15Not disruptors.
22:16Not disruptors.
22:17Not school marms.
22:19Not scoldy school marms.
22:21But that doesn't have to be.
22:23I mean, I don't think that French feminists
22:26or French people think that that's what feminism is.
22:29I think it's like democratic socialism.
22:31It's a label that really polarizes and scares people.
22:35But if you say, well, democratic socialism,
22:38you know, basically says that everybody has a right
22:40to affordable housing, has a right to health care,
22:43has a right to education, has a right to justice,
22:45most people would agree with that.
22:46And if you say, what is feminism really?
22:50Feminism isn't that women are great and men are terrible.
22:53Feminism means that women have and should have
22:58the right to be treated equally with men
23:01and should be given the same opportunities
23:04and also the same responsibilities as men.
23:07I think that most people, male and female,
23:11would agree with that if you really say, what is feminism?
23:14But I have to say that I think that women like Beyonce
23:18and women like Emma Watson proudly taking on that label of feminism
23:24does a lot in terms of making it current and making it empowered.
23:30And I also think that, you know, I'm 52 and I know a number of women
23:37who are, say, a generation younger than me who are in their 30s
23:41who said, when I was young, when I was in college
23:44or just got out of college, I thought, oh, the feminist movement,
23:49it's so passe.
23:51We're there.
23:51We're equal.
23:52Well, what are you complaining about?
23:55And then they have children.
23:58And then they start to see that in so many cases, not in every case,
24:04but in so many cases, the lion's share of the responsibility
24:08for the child or children, the lion's share of the responsibility
24:10for the home and the housework and the cooking and the shopping,
24:13and also the expectation that if you have a male and a female partner
24:18and there's a child or children, well, of course,
24:21it's the woman's career that's going to take the back seat.
24:24And I think that's when young women who have thought that feminism
24:29is something that they could throw out of their toolkit
24:32as something they don't need, all of a sudden they go looking for it
24:36because they need it.
24:37They need to find it and they need to have the ability
24:40to fight those battles in the world and oftentimes in their own home.
24:45So what would you say is the most important reason
24:49why young women should come out to vote in this upcoming election?
24:52You mean for me or?
24:54For you and for a lot of the other candidates that we're super excited
24:59that are running, that do share a lot of our values
25:02in terms of supporting women
25:04and actually expanding on those freedoms that we've been talking about
25:09that seem to be so under threat right now.
25:11Right.
25:12Well, I think, first of all, I think it's important
25:14that everybody turn out to vote.
25:16And I think the more we all participate in our democracy,
25:20the healthier it is.
25:21But I think women in particular have to have a sense
25:26that their voices matter and their opinions matter,
25:29and they can help mold the shape of their city,
25:34of their state, of their country,
25:35but not if they stay silent and not if they stay home.
25:40It's a moment also when if we really show up,
25:44particularly for these women candidates,
25:47these new candidates who are running for office for the first time
25:49to transform the Democratic Party,
25:52to bring a new vision of what government can be,
25:55we have to show up and support them
25:57because we have to say,
26:01okay, if you're going to stick your neck out
26:03and give me something not just to vote against,
26:06not just to a little bit or a mousetrap,
26:10like, oh, just, yeah, I'm going to show up and vote
26:12and I'm going to pick the lesser of two evils.
26:14But actually, there's somebody running.
26:15Maybe they're new and maybe they have less experience,
26:18but maybe they have the ability to transform our system.
26:22And I'm going to take a gamble on them
26:25because what we've got now is just not working.
26:27Last question.
26:28Yes.
26:29Cynthia Nixon, what is your advice to me as a first-time mom?
26:33Come on, give it to me.
26:34Give it to me straight.
26:35So much.
26:37I mean, how do you...
26:38Just one jewel.
26:38I always remember this story of this son,
26:43this grown son and his elderly mother walking along
26:47and seeing a young woman with a new baby
26:51and them stopping and talking to her
26:54and the grown man who was a father saying to her,
26:59oh, you're so lucky, you're so lucky.
27:00Oh, I wish my kids were that age again.
27:02And it's, oh, it's the most exciting.
27:04It's the best time.
27:06And they start to walk away.
27:08And the mom, who's like a grandma, right,
27:10turns back and her eyes are full of tears.
27:13And she says to the new mother,
27:15it gets better.
27:17I promise.
27:18And I think, right?
27:21I'm actually sitting here crying.
27:23And I think that, of course, we have that moment of when we see people with their brand new babies,
27:28we think, oh, that was the greatest.
27:30I wish I was back there.
27:31But somebody like the grandmother in that story.
27:34She's been there.
27:35She's seen it.
27:36But she's been there.
27:36And she remembers, actually, not just the baby lust that you feel when you see someone with an infant,
27:43but actually how hard it is and that everybody keeps telling you it's the most magnificent moment.
27:49But actually, and it is the most magnificent moment, but it does get better because it gets easier.
27:56And you get better at it.
27:58But your baby also gets better at it.
28:01And you're going to learn together.
28:02Well, thank you.
28:04Everybody in the studio is crying right now.
28:07Cynthia Nixon, it is such a pleasure to have you as a guest on Unstyled.
28:10I know how busy you are.
28:12And this just means so much to us and our audience.
28:14And we're just rooting for you.
28:16And we can't wait for the election.
28:19September 13th.
28:20It's a Thursday.
28:22Be there.
28:23Be there.
28:23Be square.
28:29I hope you're inspired after hearing this preseason bonus episode with Cynthia Nixon.
28:35For even more Unstyled extras, check out Refinery29 or my Instagram
28:39at Christine Barbrick.
28:41You can also join the conversation using the hashtag Unstyled across your social media.
28:46And of course, we'd be eternally grateful if you'd please subscribe to Unstyled on Apple
28:51Podcasts and give us a little rating while you're there.
28:54You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more.
28:58And make sure to sign up to our exclusive Unstyled newsletter,
29:02delivered straight to your inbox every week.
29:05Our show today was executive produced by Bridget Todd,
29:08associate produced by Rebecca Easley,
29:10and edited by Priscilla Mena.
29:12Copy support was provided by Kelsey Miller.
29:15Our theme music today is by the artist Koff,
29:18and we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist at Argo Studios.
29:22Please stay tuned as season three of the Unstyled podcast will be launching in just a few weeks,
29:28featuring must-hear episodes with a lineup of fascinating women like designing icon Jenna
29:33Lyons, actor and singer Cynthia Erivo, actor-writer-director Lena Dunham,
29:38activist-athlete Allie Raisman, and more.
29:41We'll see you back here for more episodes soon, and thanks for listening.
29:49Unstyled podcast, which is a part of the Unstyled podcast.
29:49We'll see you back here for more episodes soon.
29:49We'll see you back here for more episodes.
29:51We'll see you back here for more episodes soon.
29:51You