- 1 hour ago
Grace Baldridge speaks with people on all sides of the political spectrum about how the gay community intersects with Christianity.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00I would have to change who I am to be a member of your church.
00:05The language would be repentant.
00:06There needs to be some repentance here.
00:09For my marriage?
00:10Yeah.
00:10What the hell have I gotten myself into?
00:13Hi, I'm Grace Baldridge. I'm a lesbian. Big shock.
00:17And I'm also a Christian.
00:19As the daughter of an Episcopal priest, I was raised in the rectory,
00:22and I built a strong connection to my faith.
00:24Although I eventually swapped out Christian rock for creepy folk music.
00:27Anyway, as a queer Christian, there is an undeniable tension between my faith and my community.
00:34In a time where it seems division is favored over discourse,
00:37Where are your parents? Where's your Bible?
00:39I want to start a dialogue. Good, bad, or downright sacrilegious.
00:45Fortunately, God gave me a curious mind and access to a film crew,
00:49so I'm going to reach across the aisle, or pew, I guess,
00:52to see if we can break bread or if we'll continue to throw stones.
01:02Atlanta, Georgia, is a metropolitan city located in the Bible Belt.
01:06It's the perfect intersection of faith and the queer community.
01:09Say the South is all bigotry, honey, but you know what?
01:11Sometimes we can switch it off.
01:13Sometimes they turn out.
01:14We're not all Southern charm.
01:16There are over a thousand places of worship in 132 square miles,
01:21and their annual Pride celebration has over 300,000 participants.
01:25Pride is a place to build love, hope, and inspiration.
01:30This is honestly the most makeup I've worn in years.
01:34But there is always someone there to rain on the parades.
01:37Pun intended.
01:50We've become all too familiar with what this form of bigotry looks like.
01:54From funerals to Pride parades,
01:57these street preachers condemn entire communities in the name of God
02:01by way of megaphones and tacky signs.
02:06What other group has as much police protection around us?
02:11I will probably one direction.
02:13This is Ruben Israel.
02:15I recognized him because I've seen him at LA Pride over the last five years.
02:19He's probably somewhere over here, or there, or here.
02:24You get it.
02:25I am concerned about our country, and I'm concerned about where it's heading.
02:29We're the buzzing, irritating noise that you can't help but see.
02:34So do you feel that people on the other side of the barricade,
02:38when you're here picketing, feel love coming from your group?
02:42We have this terminology today called tough love.
02:46Why can't you at least file me in a box of tough love?
02:51In all my years of talking to people on the street, most people have heard God loves them.
02:57So he took a census, and what we found was that people do generally believe that God loves them,
03:02but often do not experience love from people who believe in him.
03:05My mom loves me.
03:07My sister loves me.
03:08My brother loves me.
03:09My friends love me, regardless if I'm gay.
03:12So it doesn't matter.
03:14Willfully ignorant Christians like Ruben don't rock me anymore.
03:17But the impact of this kind of intolerance is undeniable.
03:29I'm in Piedmont Park, the home base for Atlanta Pride festivities, to meet with Peter Nunn.
03:34Peter is a hairstylist, husband, dog parent, and a conversion therapy survivor.
03:39I firmly believed that God didn't want me to be gay, and that he was all-powerful, and he could
03:48fix it.
03:49At the age of 15, unbeknownst to him, Peter was sent to a therapy center in Iowa by his parents.
03:54My dad took me on a trip, and he didn't tell me where we were going.
03:59And then, um, I remember very well, we were in a layover in St. Louis,
04:06and he told me that he was taking me to a therapy center in Iowa to fix whatever weird sexual
04:12shit was going on with me.
04:14Then he told me that if that didn't work, that he was going to send me to a military school
04:19to try to make me a man.
04:21Conversion, or reparative therapy, is the practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation
04:26using psychological or spiritual interventions.
04:30Conversion therapy has been around since the 19th century,
04:33utilizing methods ranging from invasive questioning to electroshock.
04:37These practices have since been opposed by the American Medical Association,
04:42the American Psychiatric Association, the Pan American Health Organization, and more.
04:46And what were some of the sort of lines of questioning that you remember particularly well?
04:51A lot of stuff about if I had ever been molested, if I had masturbated.
04:57One of the therapists asking the size of my penis.
05:00But then it went back to, you have to fight this, you have to be fixed.
05:04What was that five-year period like when you got back?
05:06I would spend every Sunday in church praying, crying,
05:11every night in bed praying and crying for these desires to go away.
05:15I was probably at an all-time low.
05:21After years of battling depression and trying to pray the gay away,
05:24it was Atlanta Pride that inspired Peter to finally commit to loving himself.
05:28During the parade, the PFLAG group marched by,
05:33and they were holding signs that said,
05:37I love my lesbian daughter, or I love my gay son.
05:44And I just, I wanted that so much.
05:50And not just from family or from friends, but I wanted to love myself that way.
05:57Peter is one of the 350,000 LGBTQ Americans to endure conversion therapy as an adolescent.
06:05Conversion therapy for minors remains legal in 36 states.
06:09Peter's journey to self-acceptance led him to explore and question his faith.
06:14And he's not alone in that.
06:15Many queer people wrestle with faith, myself included.
06:19And while I've arrived at a point of reconciliation,
06:22others take a very different road.
06:34Jackie Hill Perry is a wife, mother, teacher, author, poet, and an ex-lesbian.
06:40This means that, despite experiencing same-sex attraction,
06:45Jackie has chosen to commit to a heterosexual relationship with her husband, Preston.
06:49I've been watching Jackie's videos for years,
06:52because I've always had a fascination with understanding people that I disagree with.
06:56You have already been deceived if you think that sex is not included
06:58in the discussion about what God is lord over.
07:01Jackie did not experience conversion therapy,
07:04but at the age of 19, she felt God speak to her and reveal the sin in her life,
07:08both holistically and with regards to her sexuality.
07:11You are in what I think a lot of people would view as a very conventionally heterosexual relationship.
07:16Absolutely.
07:16How do you define yourself, though?
07:18I define myself as Christian.
07:20I just feel like it's unhelpful to define my personhood
07:24by what I am attracted to or who I like, but rather, who do I serve?
07:27Do you still experience same-sex attraction?
07:31Yeah.
07:31Yeah, women are still pretty, and women are still beautiful.
07:34And I think there's still things about women that compel me to want to know them more
07:41than what I believe is okay.
07:45There's no secrecy.
07:46It's nothing but vulnerability.
07:47So he knows where I am.
07:48If I'm having a dream about my ex-girlfriend, he knows about it.
07:51To this day?
07:53Yeah.
07:54Really?
07:55I think it's definitely something that I can see myself wrestling with
07:59and wrestling through probably until the day I go to glory.
08:05I was struck by how open Jackie was with me about her struggles
08:08and how supportive a relationship she's built with Preston.
08:12But I was still struggling with the way that many churches prescribe Jackie's message
08:16as the only resolution to faith and sexuality.
08:19I wonder, what is your opinion of reparative therapy, conversion therapy?
08:24I'm not a fan just because I don't believe that God's heart is to change people's orientation.
08:29I don't see God calling people to be straight.
08:32I see him calling people to be holy.
08:34Do you think that you have more in common with me or with the protesters that I spoke
08:41with yesterday?
08:42I have nothing in common with them.
08:45The way it's presented is sinful.
08:47Some of the conclusions they come to about people and dignifying them is sinful.
08:51I think they tend to fall more on the Pharisee side than Jesus' side.
08:56Why do you think that you're grouped in with a lot of this really hateful rhetoric that
09:01we hear from the Christian community about the LGBT community?
09:03And how do you feel about that?
09:05I think people have used testimony such as mine to weaponize people or be used as a weapon
09:09to abuse and to be harmful and to lack empathy.
09:13There isn't an affirming from me from some of the perspectives that you hold.
09:19But also, I think the love is I don't feel the need to constantly tell you that I disagree.
09:24In your view, is my marriage to my wife a cross of mine?
09:29If we were, I guess, to apply that to you, the marriage and the relationship is something
09:38to put on the cross.
09:39Yes.
09:40Oh.
09:41Yeah.
09:41So, so my marriage is like, is like, no, you got a divorce?
09:51That's a lot of paperwork, Jackie.
09:53I don't know what kind of time you think I have.
09:56But even if I agreed with you, I don't have that sort of, I don't have the brainpower for a
10:01divorce.
10:02Jackie and I spoke for hours, and she had her own questions for me.
10:05She asked me what advice I would give to Christians like her.
10:09I've talked to a lot of people this weekend who have been, like, really, really hurt.
10:17Your way of dealing with things is closer to the side that is causing harm and that spike
10:24in suicide rates and a great deal of hurt than the side of Christianity that I associate with.
10:32I know that you do everything with love, and I believe that you, I believe that you believe
10:37everything that you say, and I believe you have a beautiful life.
10:40But I do think that there is a lot of pain being caused in the church right now, and it's
10:50sort of a problem that they don't want to deal with.
10:52And I don't think that they want to discuss, um, Christians like me, that we exist.
11:02LGBTQ adolescents that experience conversion therapy or rejection from their families and
11:08faith communities are eight times more likely to attempt suicide than those from accepting
11:13environments.
11:15I've never been to a Baptist service before, I don't think.
11:23Yeah?
11:24Is that, did I do that right?
11:27This trip is going, I'm doubting everything.
11:30I'm doubting my faith, my abilities to drive a car.
11:34Am I even gay?
11:36I am, I'm very gay.
11:38It's, part hasn't changed.
11:40This is Leah Allen, a seminary student and a parishioner at Park Avenue Baptist Church.
11:45That's right, folks, this is an affirming Baptist church, one of only a handful in the
11:50entire state of Georgia.
11:51I think it was a surreal moment for me when I realized that I found a place like this,
11:57um, that was not just feeding me, um, emotionally and making me feel loved and being surrounded
12:04by such a diverse and inclusive community, but feeding me, um, spiritually.
12:09A recent study found that more than 40% of queer people identify as Christian, so to invalidate
12:16our existence is both damaging and misguided.
12:19The fact of the matter is, Christians like me do exist.
12:23Whether you're the L, the G, the B, the T, the I, the A, or any other, any other letter
12:28or representation, I take me in this beautiful spectrum that we call your people, your creation.
12:34And we all say that we have pride because of what we do in ourselves, but we have pride
12:38in the creation that you have made.
12:41I take pride in the fact that you call me your child.
12:44I take pride in the fact that I am here on a Sunday in a place that I thought was
12:49not
12:49made for me.
12:50God of light, God of love, be with us now and always.
12:54May we be a bigger representation of what it means to follow Jesus in this world.
12:58In our time, Lord, may we see justice.
13:00In our time, Lord, may we see reconciliation.
13:03In our time, Lord, may we seek you.
13:09The Park Avenue service not only exceeded my expectations, it torpedoed them.
13:14Because these parishioners have found a place of restoration in a faith group that so often
13:18casts them out.
13:19It was an experience that I will never forget.
13:26She wasn't ready for the spirit.
13:30Same.
13:31I just thought I was coming to church.
13:33Honey, you are coming to church, honey.
13:36That's how it works.
13:37I told me, I was like, there's a good chance I'm going to cry.
13:41Second song in.
13:43There she goes.
13:46Listen, you can't control the Holy Ghost, honey.
13:49When she wants to come up and say that you're loved, you better just receive it.
13:53In this unique Baptist church, people feel God's love regardless of who they are.
13:59But for Leah, raised a traditional Baptist, coming out led to divisions at church and among
14:06family members.
14:07She came in the room and shook me and was like, you're not gay.
14:11And she was crying over me and, you know, telling the demon to come out.
14:15And I wish you were, you know, dead rather than be gay.
14:19I was so shocked and I was also disappointed in myself because I knew that this was a moment
14:26where, like, they weren't proud of me.
14:28In that moment, you felt disappointment?
14:30Yeah.
14:30A lot of shame.
14:32Yeah.
14:33I went through, over the next few years, from that moment, coming in and out of the closet
14:39and trying to convince myself and tell them, like, you're right, I'm not gay.
14:44I'm not gay anymore.
14:44I'm going to marry a man.
14:45I'm going to have kids.
14:46And mentally and emotionally, I went to a very, very dark place.
14:52Yeah.
14:57Leah's path was not an easy one, but it was their faith that led them to a life-affirming
15:02realization.
15:03There's no division in me of, like, being black and being non-binary and being attracted
15:09to women.
15:10The sacred, the secular, it's all one spirit that was divinely created.
15:15God intentionally designed me to be different.
15:18And how beautifully diverse is God's creation?
15:22You know, unfortunately, people limit God and limit the possibilities of God when they
15:28do that.
15:29What was, was there, like, a particular turning point to you and how you got to who I'm meeting
15:35now?
15:36I find confidence in knowing that there's a God who is so much bigger than the judgmental,
15:45narrow-minded people, you know, try to make God out to be.
15:48I call God mother, woman.
15:50I think God must be a woman because...
15:52Ariana Grande did make that very clear.
15:54The prophet Ariana Grande, she did say.
16:04In the end, I came to a point where I decided that I wasn't a believer.
16:10Christianity has done a lot of harm to the LGBTQ community throughout history.
16:16If you are part of a belief system that has systemically done harm to people, are you in
16:24any way contributing toward that harm by attaching that name of Christian or believer or whatever
16:30it is to yourself?
16:36God is so vast and so expansive and so big and so mysterious that God can be called by
16:43many names.
16:45Just know God exists.
16:47God is who God is.
16:49I am that I am.
16:50And how powerful is that?
16:56I think that it's a lot easier to say, like, you are gay or you're Christian.
17:00You can't be both.
17:01The way we interpret scripture is so different that it isn't even an agree to disagree.
17:07It's just we disagree.
17:08Yeah.
17:09I think people with my position and people with your position, we need to be friends more
17:13often and we need to talk and we need to understand each other's perspectives and we need to dialogue
17:17and challenge each other on things.
17:20And I think that cannot happen unless we're willing to be uncomfortable.
17:23Being uncomfortable can be a good thing.
17:26I feel inspired to keep stepping outside of my comfort zone in the hopes of bridging these
17:29cultural, spiritual, and political divides.
17:33So, no pressure, Grace.
17:36I feel like this is so different.
17:42I feel like I'm just going to be a good thing.
17:42I feel like I'm just going to be a good thing.
17:42I feel like I'm just going to be a good thing.
17:42I feel like I'm just going to be a good thing.
17:43I feel like I'm just going to be a bad thing.
17:43I feel like I'm just going to be a good thing.