00:16In his latest book, Champiana, the Wrecking Machine, veteran Indian foreign correspondent
00:22Arun Kumar has his tongue firmly in his cheek as he offers a 60-week rundown of President
00:30Donald Trump's second term starting in the week of January 20, 2025 up to March 8, 2026.
00:39Drawn from his popular column for the American Bazaar, the book gives unusual insights into
00:45weekly highlights of the tumultuous Trump presidency.
00:49Arun has reported on the changing political landscape in America for the last two decades,
00:55covering five presidential elections from Barack Obama to Trump.
01:01He has also reported for eight years from two of the world's hotspots, Pakistan and China,
01:07for India's top news agency Press Trust of India as the lone Indian correspondent based
01:13in Islamabad and Beijing respectively.
01:16He was also based in Washington for 11 years from 2006 to 2017.
01:24Arun has authored seven books including five analyzing elections in India.
01:28He spoke to MCR from New Delhi.
01:32Welcome to Mayanshire Reports.
01:34Arun, it's a great pleasure to have you and many congratulations on your book, Champiana.
01:39Thank you so much.
01:40Pleasure is mine.
01:42You've taken a rather unusual approach to write your book in that you've traced President
01:48Trump's second term over a period of 60 weeks starting in the week of January 20, 2025, stretching
01:56all the way to March 8, 2026.
02:01Why did you take that approach?
02:03I found it rather very interesting too.
02:05I don't think I've seen a book like that on this subject.
02:12Well, initially, like as I said, it started as a column.
02:16I started as a column for the American Bazaar and so at that point of time there was no intention
02:23to turn it into a book, but then like it increased in popularity and we found at about 25 weeks
02:34or 30 weeks, Times of India wanted to start taking it also.
02:39So now the column is published in both the American Bazaar and the Times of India.
02:45So once we got the wider audience, we thought maybe, and then once the one-year mark approached,
02:54we thought maybe we could give it to the people who could, you know, to give them an overview
03:00of what has happened over the years since he took over.
03:06So at that point of time, one of my friend's mutual friend suggested, why don't I make it
03:14into a, make it into a book?
03:17I see.
03:17So first I thought maybe it would be kind of dated, but then I read it and then I found
03:25that each piece is an independent by itself.
03:28So I wrote the first three chapters as, as a kind of an introduction, bringing, bringing
03:36people up to date from the first term, what happened in the first term and how he, you
03:42know, right, right from his golden escalator, right down on the, what is called 16 June 2015.
03:50And then we moved on and then I, since the columns are already there.
03:57So instead of in the date, if you have seen the book, I mean, you would seen that there
04:04is like this, what happened week one, then it, what happened week two, that way it gives
04:10it, it turned into what, what I would call a journal, a history in making without writing
04:18a history as such, but so today on Saturday, I did the 93rd column.
04:27I see.
04:29Yeah.
04:30You know, that's, that's one thing that a lot of people who are not in the profession
04:35do not realize that how prolific print journalists can get, it comes easy to veterans like you
04:44and I, but anyway, in a sense, you know, your book reads like a sort of a presidential diary.
04:49You mentioned the journal, but written not by him, but someone from a journalistic distance.
04:56So I'm presuming that since you were tracking on a weekly basis as a journalist, it was easy
05:02for you to be very specific about what was said, when was said, how was said, all of that,
05:07right?
05:08No, I do that.
05:09I mean, in the sense, I do track what is happening and then what is called, I take my
05:15notes and then on Friday night, I go through, go through my notes, sleep over it.
05:21And when I get up in the morning, on Saturday morning, I start writing.
05:24Right.
05:26I mean, I wouldn't say it's easy, but you know, now that I've got into this stride,
05:37it's, I, it's kind of, I'm under all.
05:39Right.
05:39You know, clearly, as you mentioned yourself in the book, it's written in a tongue in cheek
05:46style.
05:47Right.
05:49Was that an easier approach for you?
05:54No, not, not.
05:56I mean, in the sense, like for 40 plus years, I have done hard, hardcore journalism.
06:02So, but at the same time, you know, when I was a kid, or even today, even, even as a
06:09grownup, I read these Sunday comics, you know, I'm an avid reader of that.
06:15And when I was a kid, I wanted to be a cartoonist.
06:19Oh, actually.
06:20Unlike you, I can't draw.
06:23So, so I thought maybe I, because you know, a cartoon, cartoonist with the just, just a
06:28few lines, he makes a very biting or a pitty comment.
06:33Absolutely.
06:33So, so my, I, I, as I said, I can't draw.
06:37So I thought I would say, do the same thing with my words.
06:42Words, yes.
06:42Words, yeah.
06:44Indeed, indeed.
06:45No, it's, it's, again, another feature people do not realize about print journalists.
06:51Yeah.
06:51Going through your book, it's clear that you're meticulous in your detailing in terms of codes,
06:58et cetera.
06:59Right.
06:59That specificity.
07:02For the benefit of some of the young aspiring journalists who might end up watching this,
07:08just tell me the, I mean, we do it for as a living, but people don't realize that this
07:13is something that requires a great deal.
07:15Then lies those blowards on television.
07:18Right.
07:19So tell me a bit about what it took for you to be so detailed and so specific.
07:25No, again, like, as I said, I have been in this profession for a long time.
07:32And for, I worked for two wire agencies.
07:36Right.
07:36First, I worked for the Press Trust of India.
07:38And then I worked for the IANS when I was in, when I was in the US.
07:44Right.
07:45And for, for, especially for an agency, it's very important that we, we, I mean, I can't
07:53say I'm a hundred percent objective, but you try to be as objective as, as far as possible.
08:00And also have your sources.
08:03I mean, we just don't take things out of the air and say, this is what happened or my sources
08:10said so.
08:10So, so we have to, you know, this is the first thing which we were taught when we entered agency
08:17journalism that you must have your sources clearly and define the kind of sources that you have.
08:22If it's a, if it's a authoritative source or official source or not like a source said without identifying.
08:31So that's what I've tried to do in the sense like where the courts are there and whether it's the
08:36New York Times, which has said so, or the Wall Street Journal said so.
08:40So, I mean, I don't have access to direct access to these people.
08:44So, I mean, so I try to be as meticulous about giving sources as possible.
08:52Absolutely.
08:53You know, you, you write that you chose wit over dry analysis to assess the subject matter, the Trump presidency.
09:01Right, right, right.
09:02As we know, there is now near infinite scope for wit these days, given the nature of leadership, which emerged
09:09not just in this country, around the world.
09:12Do you think that's the way to approach the global trend of such leaders now?
09:20I don't know whether it would work for everyone.
09:23I don't know what would happen once Trump goes.
09:29Probably I'll have to change it to Americana instead of Trumpiana, or, but even then, I don't know whether it's
09:35the subject, you know, he lends to this kind of writing.
09:41Because he, as I said, I use this satire or wit to kind of navigate his weave and meme minds,
09:55you know, when he speaks or when he writes all this, all this stuff, you tend to, you know, get
10:02lost in that.
10:03Right.
10:04So, so it's my way of negotiating that meme minds, I would, I would use the word.
10:11Right.
10:12You know, that, that begs the question.
10:14Do you think then you run the risk of underplaying the profound and often negative damaging consequences of such a
10:23leadership by deploying wit rather than analysis?
10:27Of course, of course, people, again, I must clarify that wit comes from great deal of distilled analysis and doesn't
10:34just happen on its own.
10:36Yeah, I mean, like, as I said, the difference between my column and what happens at the, you know, the
10:44night shows, where, with where the humor is kind of what is what is called forced kind of humor.
10:55You, you, you do, whatever you do is intended to bring a love, bring love, bring a love.
11:02Whereas my, in my case, the humor is intended to catch the initial attention of the reader.
11:11And then tell him, I have another, you know, way of saying it, like, like, it's like writing cliff notes,
11:22or, or a political primer for dummies.
11:27Yes.
11:28Yes.
11:28So, so, so that makes it, it's interesting for both the political junkies and a casual reader, who just picks
11:35up the, I mean, the humor is intended to catch the attention, or hook the, hook the reader in, and
11:43hopefully seduce him to, you know, read.
11:47Yeah, human is a great vehicle to make profound points anyway.
11:52So, tell me something now, I mean, it's been out since June, right?
11:58I'm sorry?
11:59The book came out in June, right?
12:01Yeah.
12:03What has been the response, because Tarun mentioned it to me, originally.
12:09No, no, no, book, the Kindle edition, the book came only on the 30th of September.
12:14Oh, okay.
12:15Okay.
12:15Yeah.
12:16Okay.
12:16And what's been the general response?
12:19Have you been hearing from people here as well as in India?
12:23Reviews have been good.
12:24I see.
12:25Yeah.
12:26Reviews have been pretty good.
12:27But I don't know about the sale part of it.
12:31Yeah.
12:32Yeah.
12:32I find that it's a sort of a slender slim book.
12:36What about 140 pages or 130 odd pages?
12:40Yeah.
12:42I mean, again, it allows you to have a sort of a sequel to it, given that you have two
12:49more years and you are writing so prolifically.
12:51Yeah.
12:52You mentioned that you already did 90 plus columns already.
12:5493 now.
12:5593 now.
12:56So you have enough material.
12:58So are you looking at perhaps round two of this?
13:02Yeah.
13:03I mean, that's what when we went for the first, we thought first year would could be a line that
13:12this is what happened in the first year.
13:14And then we knew this is the midterm election year.
13:18Hmm.
13:19So what happens after the election would certainly, I hope, would certainly require, if not a book, at least, I
13:31mean, yeah, I think so.
13:35Probably.
13:36Perhaps a book and you will know pretty soon by sometime tomorrow.
13:40Yeah.
13:40Maybe.
13:40Yeah.
13:41In a couple of days, we would know what happens.
13:44Yeah.
13:44And whatever happens, whatever happens, I think it would be worth, you know, taking a deep look at that.
13:51You were based in DC reporting directly from the heart of the state of affairs there.
13:58Right.
13:58And now you're about, what, nine, 10,000, 12,000 kilometers from there.
14:03Right.
14:04How has the view changed for you being in the heart of it and now from a distance?
14:14Well, it gives you kind of an outsider's view, you know, I mean, I mean, you have both the perspectives
14:20there that you were there in the thick of it.
14:22Right.
14:22Right.
14:23And here you are at a distance.
14:27And so you are not, and so you're not that involved in the sense.
14:32And also, since now I'm writing this as a weekly column.
14:37Unlike an agency journalism who is pressed for deadlines, he has to, you know, push out a story, especially for
14:45an agency.
14:46They want to be, an agency journalist wants to be the first.
14:52So that handicap is not there with me here.
14:55So these two things, you know, make it to write more freely.
15:01I would say, give a free rein to my, my thoughts, my mind.
15:08Right.
15:09To be deliberately charitable, you have an equally colorful leadership back home.
15:16Right.
15:16Does that prompt similar wit in you?
15:20I'm sorry?
15:21Does that prompt similar wit in you, too, about the leadership in India?
15:26I'm not sure whether I can try that here.
15:31It's, you know, all said and done, the fact remains that Trump has been remarkably accessible.
15:40He enjoys jousting.
15:42I mean, it's, I think perhaps it's, that's his fuel.
15:47The media interaction is his fuel.
15:49Right.
15:50Right.
15:50Right.
15:52So it's a very different approach.
15:54Right.
15:58Yeah.
15:58No, you're making a point.
16:00No, no.
16:01What, what I'm saying is probably, like, like you said, I, I like, with you, I agree that he has
16:06a, the media, whether it's good publicity or bad publicity for him, it's, in his view, all publicity is good.
16:14Right.
16:15That is one.
16:16Right.
16:16And I also, I believe that he has a sense of humor.
16:22But probably that won't work for me if I do this kind of writing in India.
16:29Right.
16:29That's true.
16:30You know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a very important point now because we are dealing with such
16:37astonishing humanlessness at the leadership level in Delhi.
16:42Right.
16:43And I, I say, I've said it for a long time, but I mean, I have no problem saying it.
16:48Mm.
16:49Uh, and it, it shows in, in the way it's, the country gets governed.
16:54Right.
16:55Yeah.
16:55Uh, do you continue to engage with U.S. affairs more than you do with things in India?
17:01I'm sorry?
17:02Do you continue to engage with U.S. affairs more than?
17:06No, I write only what, I mean, I, uh, work on a regular basis for the American Bazaar.
17:11Okay.
17:12So, yes.
17:13So, I write only about what happens and the only thing is instead of writing, sitting in the, in the
17:18U.S., I, uh, write from Delhi.
17:21I see.
17:22Right.
17:23And, and this column is different in the sense, like, again, it's, uh, meant for essentially to begin with, which
17:30was meant for the American Bazaar, for the American audiences.
17:32Right.
17:33Right.
17:33Um, but like, as I said, uh, um, Times of India and a couple of other papers, so, found it
17:41interesting.
17:42They wanted to take it, but then we finally gave it to the Times of India because they wanted it
17:47on an exclusive basis.
17:48Right.
17:48You know, as a columnist, how do you deal with the fact that you have an administration here that believes
17:54in, as it were, flooding the zone?
17:57Every day you're barraged with all kinds of things.
18:00Right.
18:01How do you navigate as a columnist?
18:04Like, as I said, I mean, throughout the week, I, I take notes in the sense, and then at the
18:10end of the day, I see, um, sometimes I think, um, you have to change at the last minute.
18:17Uh, what is, so, so, so that's why I do it on a Saturday morning, and Friday night, I sleep
18:27over it, go through, go over my notes, and see what should, what would be the, um, the best hook
18:34to get the readers.
18:36Well, I hope, Arun, that, uh, this gets a lot more traction, and it becomes a sort of a bestseller.
18:43It's important that journalists, especially print journalists earn a lot of money.
18:49Right.
18:49So, my absolute best to you, and I hope this little conversation that we have had pushes some, some sales.
18:57Yeah, I also hope so, and it was great being with you.
19:01Likewise.
