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00:06Dragon's Den is open for business I don't often say this but your pitch was awful you've got to
00:13be quiet for this a little bit Peter if that's all right ouch a place where budding entrepreneurs
00:18are given a once-in-a-lifetime chance you have this most bizarre way of answering questions
00:27to present their wares to five captains of commerce you wanted to see how credible we are
00:33so I'm about to show you show me some will succeed and go on to make millions others will fail
00:43and
00:44leave with nothing making the counter for tell him to shove it where the Sun doesn't shine the hunt
00:49is on to find the next big money-making idea dragons are go tonight we will we will rock you
01:01Dragon's Den is the platform to come in and pitch anything you've made some really good decisions
01:08so far I would have been shouting that coming out of the mix how can you prove that it helps
01:13well I
01:14can just tell you that you know it helped me but that's what worries me you are in a bit
01:18of a pickle
01:18financially at the moment I'm just concerned that you might protect the IP so much that you forgot
01:22about trying to sexually sell the product hi I'm Ron I'm Charlotte and we have been together 18
01:35years this is really surreal isn't it that's ridiculous feels like a dream no I've never
01:40won a negotiation with Charlotte so good luck to the dragons hey oh outdoor art oh it is all outdoors
01:50isn't it yeah I love the setup with a quick bottle of red wine that's I could just see you
01:56sitting out
01:56in that garden appreciating some fine artwork I could well Peter Jones might know his Raphaels from his
02:03Rembrandt or rather his Clarets from his Cabernet's oh green light we're in this couple have also done
02:12their research on which dragons they'd like to have in their portfolio I particularly like Sarah Davies
02:18she's got a background in crafts that's my background Steve Bartlett he could really rocket our product on
02:26the social media side I agree hi dragons thank you so much for having us today I'm Charlotte and
02:44this is Grant and we are co-founders of yard art UK limited yard art UK produces artwork for outdoor
02:52spaces it's UV waterproof and weatherproof resistant and easy to install so dragons that's what yard art
03:01makes but hopefully you can see what it can do is transform a very boring fence or a wall or
03:07a garden
03:08or a courtyard into somewhere that you want to spend more time in makes it feel more inviting we've been
03:14stocked and sold through high street retailers including John Lewis in the past and we sell a lot
03:18through our own social media channels and our own website so that's the product that we have and we
03:25hope you see the what's your ask what's our ask our ask is 50,000 pounds in return for 25
03:31percent of
03:31the business thank you do you mind if I just have a quick look please do an outdoor art business
03:38is the
03:38offering from Grant and Charlotte Clements they're seeking 50,000 pounds in return for 25 percent of the
03:45company it's just an acrylic frame yes now Tuka Suleiman wants to test them under the grueling
03:54environment of the den Charlotte and Grant are you married we are married yes and just tell us a
04:05little bit of background of how how you got here well my background sub I work in the insurance business
04:13this business is really Charlotte's she's done a huge amount of work on it I have done my piece
04:17to try and keep the business sort of on the straight and narrow as it were so I started originally
04:23my
04:24career in HR I gave that up to have a family my life changed a little bit after children we
04:33lost our
04:34daughter sorry sorry so my life and outlook changed and I wanted to go back and do something
04:43that I loved which was art and it was a real tonic for me sorry all right all right that's
04:50okay all right
04:52so so I started doing my own art and I started selling my own art so any of these pieces
05:01yours the
05:02middle of one in the gold frame at the top thank you I would have been shouting that coming out
05:07of
05:07the ha ha thank you thank you for stopping me crying thank you for sharing this thank you and I'm
05:15sure about your loss thank you thank you um let's just talk about the business and numbers okay in 2021
05:26our turnover was 80 000 pounds with a gross of 29 000 and a net loss of 11 and a
05:35half last financial
05:38year we did 73 000 turnover with a 36 000 gross with a net loss of 1644 oh I mean
05:51the numbers are small I
05:53would say but but the question becomes really is where can this business really go so far you've
06:02been in John Lewis and is that continuing no because their margins were very hard to work with we were
06:10actually losing money and we decided to start focusing a little bit more on our website because
06:16the margins were better Grant Charlotte hi hi Peter um in essence it is it's great that you've started
06:28a business but it it's a an outdoor acrylic product that you're obviously trying to sell and I think
06:35there's a really big issue here immediately with regards to your actual business model itself
06:41well I don't really I'm not sure what were you selling it into John Lewis at as an example 70
06:46pounds
06:46and what was it costing you to make um 50. well there's your issue then yes and actually we we
06:53we were very but then it's a very immediate decision which is why we've moved away and with no no
06:58moved
06:58away is one thing making the decision to do it in the first place is odd no if you get
07:02into somewhere
07:02like that you immediately get into some credibility that you're a quality product so we knew and we had our
07:07eyes wide open that the margins were really going to be tight for us but we thought if we could
07:12get
07:12in there initially and have that kudos behind us to say to people this is where we are about that
07:18product that's costing you 50 pounds by the way I'm involved in this type of business because I own a
07:23an imaging company I don't understand how you got a price of 50 pounds for the your outdoor acrylic
07:30well that seems really expensive does it yeah that's less than 15 pounds like acrylic I think
07:37you're clearly overpaying for your product thank you for your feedback well let's hope peter's right
07:44and you are overpaid because if so there's a load more margin to be made isn't there and can I
07:48just
07:48say I totally get your strategy with that big retailer can I ask why are you specifically asking for
07:5550 000 today you know not a lot of people come in offering straight up to give away 25 of
08:00their
08:01business so you clearly recognize that you need to give a dragon some skin in the game to really want
08:07to get behind this and I wondered if it was just wanting to give away a good chunk to get
08:11the skin
08:11in the game or if it was a case of we want to spend 50 000 specifically on this so
08:16it's a bit of both
08:17sarah in that we recognize that the business is at a stage where we're coming to you offering potential
08:23or offering opportunity and we want that to be meaningful so that someone does come in
08:26you know and has some skin in the game as you put it in terms of investment I think what
08:32would be
08:33really key for us is driving traffic to our website because already we've spent money last year
08:38on our marketing some some work some didn't we just think you know with some investment and some money
08:45behind us to drive more traffic to our e-commerce site and also to change it into something that could
08:51go
08:51global I think would be who's doing that for you who's who's managing the marketing within the team
08:56because I know um a particular business that built a nine-figure business selling canvas art
09:03via facebook ads have you tried facebook ads yes paid paid so we have tried facebook and instagram ads
09:12but to be honest we didn't have the skills and we didn't feel like we had the the money behind
09:17us the
09:17skills and we i don't think we were confident enough in it confident enough to do it properly
09:24charlotte grant i i actually i i know where i am i think i think you've done a really good
09:30job
09:30i actually completely agree with sarah i think sometimes in fact i advise business so sometimes to
09:35put yourself somewhere as marketing almost you know to give yourself credibility so i actually think
09:41you've made some really good decisions so far and that is great but the scale of the opportunity
09:49is the thing that worries me as an investor so i'm afraid i won't be investing thank you i'm out
09:58grant charlotte i would like to say that i have a huge level of deep admiration for you charlotte to
10:05create something out of a beyond nobody could ever understand sad moment thank you i think that says a
10:13lot about who you are um so i'm giving you like massive hugs for that because i think that is
10:22you know
10:23not many people can do that but then this is one where i think by just finding the right printers
10:32finding the right business model you could scale this and build this and have a wonderful business
10:37yourselves so i generally would much prefer you actually in all honesty to have much more of your
10:44business and actually not be part of that journey and just read about you later on in life and for
10:51that reason i'm going to say that i'm out thank you um but big ups to you thank you thank
10:57you
10:58i don't think you need a dragon and i'm i'm wondering i'm asking myself if i invest in this
11:08business what would they expect of me you know but i don't believe that there's a lot i can do
11:13apart from give give you basic basic common sense you know can we have your phone number
11:21but you understand what i'm saying yes we do i think this is your business and i would not want
11:26to take away 25 of your business for not doing a lot for that reason and for that reason i'm
11:35out
11:35thank you thanks for the pleasure that was quite concerned with what you said to tuka then you know
11:44i wouldn't want to give away 25 of my business to someone that says they're not going to do a
11:48lot
11:48because i really value that business right yeah i do value this business and actually
11:52i would want your skills and yeah absolutely that was a joke
12:01do you know it's not very often i sit here in the den usually i sit here next to tuka
12:05and we agree on 90 of stuff we're both product people but i could not be more in disagreement
12:12with what i've heard him say today of all of the people we get walking through those lift doors
12:18i see in front of me people who need a dragon more than anything else you know because actually
12:24while you've been talking i've sat and written written a whole new business plan down here
12:28and i think with 50 000 investment and a lot of business support there's a long way you could go
12:33with this business and i think you've been fair and reasonable in your ask but i'm going to change
12:37it a little bit and i'll put an offer to you here okay i will offer you all of the
12:43money 50 000
12:45pounds in return for 35 of the business today on the basis that you will let me write you the
12:54new
12:54business plan and then in 12 to 18 months time we'll have made a lot more money than what you're
13:01talking about and she'll drop down to the 25 if i get my money back in let's say 18 months
13:07thank you
13:08sorry thank you thank you very much i really should have decided before it got to me shouldn't i
13:21um just just some outstanding questions how much does that small silver tiger piece cost
13:28300 pounds direct to consumer yeah okay so it's on my business plan list to address that is it just
13:38in case you were worried can you tell me how you address it yeah yeah yeah well i'm not going
13:43to tell
13:43you how i address it but you know if we were if we were in a partnership then i would
13:47absolutely be uh
13:49sharing that sort of information this is like having to marry someone without seeing who you're
13:55marrying can i see if that's possible sir it's a really nice plan you know i can't see that i
14:01know
14:04i'm gonna make you an offer i'm gonna offer you half of the money for 17 and a half percent
14:11of the
14:12business on the basis that i'll drop down to 12 and a half percent if we get our money back
14:20within 18
14:20months but that's a choice you can make at the time thank you um we actually couldn't ask for a
14:28better offer and we'd love to accept it so thank you thank you so much that's what your mates here
14:35charlotte and grant have done it i've pretty much decided in five minutes
14:39thank you right in your business plan they leave the den with 50 000 pounds
14:43thank you thank you thank you everyone thank you thank you and a new business plan from a partnership
14:51of dragons that could rocket ship the company
15:02once in a while you get business in the den that's at that early stage but where you can see
15:07real
15:07potential yeah and for me this is a worthy opportunity and they to be honest were worth the
15:12opportunity okay you did more than okay you couldn't have done any better having children and you
15:20know you lose one it was tough and you know it's about how we've moved on from that and i
15:27want my
15:27daughters to be proud of what what i've done and achieved no you are we all are
15:55hi i'm peter i'm from york and i'm bringing in the oldest form of alcohol known to mankind
16:01but with our own spin oh hello now you're talking mead she's pronouncing her second name
16:12mead in the den it must be honey viking very true dragon slayers for the winner going into the den
16:22is
16:22a bit like going into battle i'm very nervous very excited i hope that the dragons are going to
16:30absolutely love my products and see the massive gap in the market that it can fill
16:36good luck guys yeah you got this
16:38good luck guys
16:52good luck guys
17:00he's a big jerk
17:01i said
17:04in the kippah
17:09the dark
17:09cor detto
17:13Hello, Dragons. My name is Peter Taylor, and I am a Viking.
17:18I'm the founder and managing director of Nidhogga Mead Co.,
17:22and I'm here today to ask for £80,000
17:24in exchange for a 5% equity stake in my company.
17:28I first discovered mead when I got into Viking Age reenactment
17:31and discovered that real mead is a sweet and delicious alcoholic drink
17:35made from fermented honey.
17:37I started making it in my house as a hobby,
17:39and then two years ago, I turned my passion into a business.
17:42Now, we are a team of seven,
17:44with a meadery and warehouse in Pocklington, New York,
17:46and stock many places around the UK,
17:49including the National Trust, the Jorvik Centre,
17:51and have just gained a listing with Morrison's.
17:53We also sell direct-to-consumer through various in-person events
17:57where we have a great track record,
17:59selling 100 to 120 bottles per event,
18:01and we've positioned ourselves of one of the market leaders in our sector.
18:05With the rise and love of all things Viking and fantasy,
18:08in pop culture today,
18:10and with Fortune Business Insights valuing the mead market globally
18:13at £467 million currently,
18:16the time to get involved is now.
18:19We would love for you to come on this journey with us
18:21and join the mead revolution.
18:26Mead, a honey-based alcoholic beverage and a variety of different flavours...
18:32..is the offering from Peter Taylor.
18:35This one's for you, Deborah.
18:36We know that you're vegan, so that you wouldn't drink any...
18:38Excellent. And my name is Needham,
18:39so I come from a long line of mead makers.
18:42That's it.
18:43Peter is seeking £80,000...
18:45Are you going to rely on me as a taster?
18:47Yeah.
18:47Yeah. I'll sort you that one out.
18:50..in return for a 5% share in his business.
18:53Do I need a mixer or is it straight down the shaft?
18:56So try it naturally first.
18:57If you would like to try it as part of a cocktail,
18:59I do have some freshly made.
19:12Peter, so educate me on mead.
19:14Yes.
19:15So mead is the oldest form of alcohol known to mankind.
19:18Our earliest archaeological evidence is around 7,000 BC.
19:21But every civilisation ever has drank it,
19:24but the Greeks, the Romans, Egyptians,
19:25because it's made from fermented honey.
19:27And honey is universal.
19:28So this has been the universal drink.
19:31Made famous, of course, by the Vikings.
19:33And does it...
19:34I mean, obviously, I've watched the Vikings...
19:37Yeah.
19:37..and I can see what they're drinking.
19:38They seem to be drunk a lot of the time
19:40after they've had a fight.
19:42Yeah, that's right, yeah.
19:43Does this have the same effect on you?
19:45What's the alcohol sort of...
19:47So it's 15% ABV.
19:49So it's a bit stronger than a wine.
19:51Yeah, so it's between a wine and just below a port.
19:55Can I just ask Peter what that is round his neck?
19:57Uh, this is my Mjolnir.
20:00So you've probably seen in Marvel when, you know,
20:02Thor's got his big hammer, that's what a Mjolnir is.
20:05This is what it would actually look like as a Viking emblem.
20:08Um, so...
20:09So you're properly into...
20:10When I say I'm a Viking, I mean I'm a Viking.
20:13It's how I met my wife.
20:14I killed her dad on the battlefield
20:15at the Battle of Stamford Bridge.
20:17Uh, not literally, obviously.
20:19That's one way.
20:19Um, and met his daughter.
20:21Uh, we got married last August.
20:23And this, in fact, was my wedding gift from my wife.
20:28Peter, um, what's your background?
20:31I was in the military.
20:34Uh, I left the military at the age of 21.
20:37Um, I got into sales.
20:38Um, I have ADHD,
20:40so I bounced around quite a few different jobs
20:42because I couldn't really...
20:43I wasn't focused at one enough.
20:45Um, but this, I found, because it changes all the time
20:48and it's my business, uh,
20:50my ADHD is now used as a superpower, pretty much,
20:53uh, for myself.
20:54Um, I can use it for my energy.
20:56Um, and obviously I now employ people
20:58that can help me with the admin side of stuff
21:00and fill those gaps.
21:02So, you're in Morrison's?
21:03You're about to go into Morrison's?
21:04So, we've just gained a listing with them.
21:06Um, it's a small one to start with,
21:07so it's just two stores.
21:09And we're currently going through
21:10their supplier portal at the moment.
21:12So, give us some numbers year by year.
21:14Yeah, so the first year's turnover
21:15was 152,000
21:17and a net loss of 30.
21:20Year two was, uh, a short year.
21:23So, that was 362,000 turnover
21:26with a net profit of 2,100.
21:29Uh, year to date is 102,000 turnover
21:32with a net loss currently at 55,000.
21:36Um...
21:37Okay, so I'm assuming
21:38you must have one and a half million pounds in the bank
21:41to get a valuation of 1.6.
21:44Uh, that would be very nice,
21:46but unfortunately not.
21:47Um, the reason why we valued
21:48the company at 1.6 million
21:49is there is no 100% honeymead
21:52sold in a supermarket at all.
21:54There's a lot of things
21:54that's not sold in a supermarket at all.
21:56Yeah.
21:56It's got no valuations like that.
21:58Well, you're, well,
21:59since the start of the company,
22:00we've sold 30,000 bottles
22:01and this is just through events.
22:03We've done no online marketing,
22:05but people obviously like the product,
22:07enjoy the product.
22:08Now, if you could pick it up
22:09in your weekly shopping,
22:10why would you not do that?
22:13So, what do you make on a bottle?
22:15So, uh, on a bottle,
22:16it's about 13, 14 pounds.
22:19Profit?
22:19Profit.
22:20Gross profit, yeah.
22:21Our gross margins
22:22on our large bottles,
22:24for instance,
22:25are 57% gross.
22:27Um, the margin
22:28on the small bottles
22:29is 60% gross.
22:31That's retail.
22:32Yeah, you're...
22:33This is a...
22:34This is a tough one.
22:36Alcohol is...
22:36Is a...
22:37Is a brutal business.
22:39And whilst you think
22:40you can maintain
22:41those level of margins,
22:42once you start to go
22:43into sub-distribution,
22:46your margins start to drop.
22:48So, our...
22:49Literally, like...
22:49Wholesale margin
22:51is 44%.
22:51It won't be.
22:52Um, and that's...
22:53It won't be.
22:54...too large.
22:54But it won't be.
22:55When you...
22:56If you're...
22:56If I'm a buyer now
22:57and I'm sitting with you,
22:58your margin might be
22:59at 44% at the moment
23:00because you're not
23:01selling a lot.
23:02Yep.
23:02If I'm going to go
23:02and commit a large amount
23:04of money in cash
23:05to promote your product,
23:07promote your brand,
23:08Yep.
23:08I'm probably going to
23:09take all of that margin
23:10away from you
23:11in the early days.
23:12So, your margins
23:12will erode.
23:14So, even if I was to think
23:15that this had a really
23:16good chance,
23:17you would need
23:17a lot more money
23:18than this to make...
23:19to make this business safe
23:20and have a real opportunity.
23:21Okay.
23:21So, sadly,
23:22I'm going to say
23:23that I'm out.
23:26Peter.
23:26Yes.
23:27Hi, I'm Sarah.
23:28Hi.
23:28Lovely.
23:29The elderflower one
23:30is to my palace.
23:31That's good.
23:32Um, my concern is
23:35you are in a bit
23:36of a pickle financially
23:37at the moment.
23:38Mm-hmm.
23:39You're not in an attractive way
23:40for an investor,
23:41let's just say.
23:42We get so many opportunities
23:44come through here.
23:45We've got to look at
23:46where to place
23:46how many to get
23:47the biggest return.
23:49So, I will enjoy
23:50the rest of that glass,
23:51but I don't feel
23:52like I can invest it in it.
23:53No worries at all.
23:54So, I'm going to say
23:54I'm out,
23:54but good luck
23:55with the business.
23:56Thank you very much.
23:56Cheers.
23:58Peter, listen,
23:59I can't taste it,
24:00so I can't...
24:01I appreciate that, Debra.
24:02It's very difficult
24:03for me to, you know,
24:04I can look at Sarah's face
24:06and she can look at me.
24:07Good.
24:08But actually,
24:09also on the other side of it,
24:10you know,
24:10when I get involved
24:12with an investment,
24:13I shout about it.
24:14You know,
24:14I want to help
24:15and I want to promote it
24:16and push it
24:16and it's just not something
24:18that I can.
24:20So, I won't be investing.
24:22I'm out.
24:25Peter.
24:26Take care.
24:28I must say,
24:28you come across
24:29very credible.
24:31You've stood up there
24:33and you're sure
24:34you know you're mean.
24:36Unfortunately,
24:37your numbers
24:38don't stack up
24:39for an investment
24:40from me
24:41and I'm out.
24:45Peter.
24:46So, my question is
24:47if it is going to become
24:48a mainstream product,
24:49then why haven't you
24:50branded it as such?
24:51Because if I saw
24:52that bottle on the shelf,
24:53I'm asking myself,
24:54who does that appeal to?
24:56There's some swords on here.
24:58There's like a snake
24:59with a...
25:00I'm thinking
25:01Viking people
25:02are going to love this.
25:03Yeah.
25:04This looks like
25:04a niche product
25:05for a niche category.
25:06I completely understand
25:07what you're saying,
25:08but in that case,
25:09people wouldn't be watching
25:10Game of Thrones
25:11and make it the biggest
25:11watched TV show
25:13pretty much of all time.
25:14So, the people
25:15that watch Game of Thrones,
25:16you think they go out
25:16and buy Viking stuff?
25:17Yeah.
25:18Yeah, go out and buy mead,
25:19go out and buy swords,
25:21go out and buy cloaks.
25:22I've got loads of friends
25:24that watch Game of Thrones,
25:24including myself,
25:25and I've never bought a sword.
25:27Okay.
25:28You'd look good with a sword.
25:32Um,
25:34your case to me is that
25:36it's the right decision
25:37to keep this branding
25:37focused on Vikings
25:38because even if this product
25:40goes mainstream,
25:41the consumer will
25:41have an affinity to that.
25:43Is that correct?
25:44I believe so.
25:45When we were at a food
25:46and drink market
25:46and there are gins
25:48and there are rums
25:49and there are whiskeys,
25:50people naturally
25:51are drawn to us
25:52because we have big banners
25:53up with dragons
25:55and things like that.
25:56So, I get that.
25:56My thing is,
25:57you know,
25:58Dave walks into
25:59a supermarket
26:00or a restaurant
26:01and it's one of the
26:03products on the shelf.
26:04They don't know
26:05the back history
26:05of Vikings
26:06and mead
26:07and all that.
26:07So, all of that stuff,
26:08I actually think
26:08when this is mainstream,
26:10it will be lost.
26:11It will just be,
26:12you know,
26:12a story that might
26:13exist in your head
26:14but it won't be part
26:15of what makes their decision.
26:17Yeah.
26:17I think you're being
26:18a little bit too romantic
26:19about the Viking thing,
26:20especially if this is
26:21a wave coming into shore.
26:22And I trust you.
26:24I don't know.
26:24You know this stuff
26:25better than me.
26:25You know me better than me.
26:26So, maybe it is.
26:27But when it comes into shore,
26:29your positioning
26:29and your branding
26:30is really going to matter.
26:31Yeah.
26:31And right now,
26:32I don't think
26:32you're positioned correctly
26:33to ride that wave in.
26:34OK.
26:35For that reason,
26:36I'm going to say
26:36that I'm out
26:37but I commend you
26:37and I have to say
26:38it tastes really good.
26:39Thank you very much.
26:40It does taste really good.
26:42Good to see you.
26:43Thank you very much.
26:43Nice to meet you.
26:46His failure
26:46to secure a deal
26:48may have left Peter
26:49feeling momentarily deflated
26:53but the Viking re-enactor
26:54turned entrepreneur
26:56certainly isn't admitting defeat.
26:58We're just going
26:59to keep pushing forward.
27:00Keep doing what we're doing.
27:01The sky's the limit, really.
27:03So, you know,
27:04me and my trust in me on here
27:05we're going to keep fighting on.
27:15Next into the den
27:17was solo musician Rich Baxter.
27:20Rich was seeking £50,000
27:22in return for a 25% share
27:24in his invention,
27:25a drum kit played by foot.
27:28I'm heading into a fiery pit
27:31It's the BBC's Dragon's Den.
27:33There's a Peter and Steven
27:35on Star and Sweepin'
27:37I'm getting dead, we're meeting.
27:39I'm in the famous lift
27:41up to the dead
27:42I can't believe I'm taking for a fool
27:44One thing's for sure
27:46it would drive you crazy
27:48If you will end up speaking to a wolf
27:55That's how you pitch.
27:58The dragons were eager to put Rich's product through its paces.
28:02We will, we will rock you
28:07There's your meme
28:08Well, there you go.
28:13Having channeled her inner Freddie Mercury
28:14would Deborah Meade and go gaga
28:16over Rich's business?
28:19Right, so
28:20I want to understand where the business is now
28:22Are you in prototype?
28:24Currently yes, yes
28:24I produce it at home by myself in the garage
28:26So how many of these are there in the world?
28:29There's two complete kits
28:31One of them is my gig kit
28:33That one is my presentation kit
28:37Sarah Davies wanted to know
28:38how many customers
28:39could be beating a path to Rich's door
28:43What is the scale of the opportunity?
28:45That's a good question
28:46because there's so many solo musicians
28:48on the scene
28:49on every scene
28:50Do you know how many?
28:52It's impossible
28:52Absolutely impossible to find that out
28:54Right
28:55What proportion do you think
28:57of the solo musicians
28:59would consider buying this product?
29:01I would say half
29:02So the scale of the market opportunity
29:04is roughly half of the market size
29:06that we don't know
29:07Yes
29:08OK
29:11Tuukka Suleiman had his own ideas
29:13about how sounds
29:14could be turned into pounds
29:17Making it is one thing
29:18Yeah
29:18Selling it is something else
29:20Yeah
29:20But what if you created a craze
29:23Stomp it competition
29:24Kids come up
29:26and make that an event
29:27Yeah
29:28I've got to say
29:29I do think
29:29thinking that this could be
29:30the next craze
29:31or kids to do it
29:32I wouldn't say stomp it
29:34I'd say stop it
29:34Stop it
29:35Yes
29:35I think that what you have created
29:39is frankly quite genius
29:41but in terms of making a business
29:42out of this
29:43I can't quite get there
29:44so I'm going to say that I'm out
29:45Thank you so much
29:46Take care of yourselves
29:48Rich's innovative take on percussion
29:50failed to snare a dragon
29:53Don't know if you don't try
29:55But his product continued
29:58to drum up new users
30:01Oh EastEnders
30:03Yes
30:04Yes
30:12We're here
30:14Hi my name's Tori
30:15This is Carrie
30:17You can have any water
30:18Are you okay?
30:19I went in a minute I think
30:20We've invented a product
30:21that we feel will help
30:22many people
30:23with their self-care moments
30:24at home or on the go
30:28They're a portable nail bar
30:30I mean I do
30:31I do see it and get it
30:33I used to sit in bed
30:35and I used to strategically
30:37balance the polish
30:38between my legs like this
30:40while I painted my nails
30:41trying not to get on the bedsheets
30:42because I used to like
30:43to go to sleep like this
30:44so it would dry
30:45Are you sure you just
30:46weren't pretending
30:47at night to be a puppy?
30:52Breathing in through the nose
30:53through the mouth
30:54Okay
30:55I mean if I had to
30:56choose someone
30:57to be in business with
30:58it would absolutely be Carrie
30:59We know most of the time
31:01what's sort of going on
31:01each other's heads
31:02without even having to say it
31:15Hello Dragons
31:15I'm Tori
31:16And I'm Carrie
31:17and we're founders
31:18of our company NowPad
31:19We're here today
31:20to ask for a £60,000 investment
31:22for a 35% equity stake
31:25in our business
31:26We both love painting our nails
31:28and have done
31:28from a very young age
31:29You might not be
31:30regular nail painters yourselves
31:32so first want to give you
31:33an insight into the problem
31:34NowPad solves
31:35and the gap in the market
31:36we've found
31:36You're at home
31:38the TV's on
31:38and you fancy painting your nails
31:40You reach over for
31:41whatever might be on hand
31:42a magazine
31:43a book
31:43or a towel
31:44but nothing quite gives you
31:45what you want
31:46a flat even surface
31:47and somewhere to put
31:48your polish nearby
31:49Before you know it
31:50you're balancing your polish
31:51between your knees
31:52following a moment
31:53where I ruined
31:54my favourite pair of jeans
31:55I thought there has to be
31:56a better and easier way
31:57to do this
31:58Introducing NowPad
31:59It's a portable
32:00compact manicure
32:01and pedicure accessory
32:03It has a round
32:04even surface
32:05It has a polished
32:06potholder
32:07and fold out fin
32:08The flat surface
32:09keeps your hands steady
32:10and the fold out fin
32:12goes between your knees
32:13to minimise movement
32:14and the polish
32:15goes in the well
32:16to help avoid spills
32:18You can lay the nail pad
32:19flat on your knees
32:21You can also tilt it
32:22at an angle
32:25You can lay it flat
32:26on a table
32:27or on the floor
32:28to protect it
32:29from spills
32:30And
32:31when you
32:32fold up your nail pad
32:33you can store
32:34your manicure accessories
32:35inside
32:36so your nail pad
32:36cuticle pusher
32:37and you're ready
32:38on the go
32:39Whilst the idea
32:40design and prototype
32:41started ten years ago
32:42nail pad has only been
32:44trading since October
32:452019
32:46We have our UK
32:47US and EU patent
32:49We are design registered
32:50and we have our trademark
32:52We have made a turnover
32:53of approximately
32:54£7,000 to date
32:57We'd love to work
32:58with the dragon
32:58to help supercharge
32:59our business
33:00and work with us
33:01as a mentor
33:02We have a few nail pads
33:03if you'd like to try
33:04and I will come
33:05and bring them round
33:05Thank you for your time
33:07Thank you
33:08An invention
33:09designed to ensure
33:10that nail polish lovers
33:12can get their thrills
33:13whilst avoiding
33:14unwanted spills
33:15is the offering
33:16from sisters
33:17Tori Dealey
33:18and Carrie Salmon
33:21The duo
33:22are seeking
33:22£60,000
33:24in return
33:25for a 35% share
33:26in their company
33:27I just can't grip it
33:29between my knees
33:29and my knees are closed
33:30look
33:30I did struggle a bit
33:33as well
33:33Did you?
33:34Yeah
33:34Hold on a minute
33:35I think it's because
33:37you're tiny
33:39Deborah Meaden's
33:40managed to get to grips
33:41with Tori and Carrie's
33:42product
33:43but it's Peter Jones
33:45who's first to try
33:46and get a grasp
33:47of their business
33:51Tori and Carrie
33:53Yes
33:53Hi
33:54Now
33:55obviously the big thing
33:56that hit me was
33:57the fact that you've
33:58only sold £7,000
33:59Yeah
34:01When did you launch
34:02the product?
34:04Started trading
34:05October 2019
34:07So why only £7,000
34:09worth of sales
34:10in total?
34:11Yeah
34:12So
34:13that's all
34:14all of those sales
34:15have been direct
34:15to consumer
34:16I mean
34:16in terms of
34:17it's very much
34:18a new product
34:19going into an existing
34:20market
34:20you know
34:21what we very much
34:22need to do
34:22is increase our
34:23awareness
34:23our marketing funnel
34:24our lead generation
34:25something we haven't
34:26had the budget to do
34:27our budget has been
34:27put into protecting
34:28the IP
34:29And can I just ask
34:30how much you've spent
34:31on your intellectual property?
34:33Yeah
34:33Of course
34:34Absolutely
34:34So today we have spent
34:36approximately £90,000
34:38that's across the
34:40ten years of developing
34:41protecting
34:42and producing our product
34:44Have you done anything
34:45to market it?
34:46Have you done anything
34:47on TikTok?
34:49Have you done anything
34:49on Instagram?
34:50Yeah
34:50So we've done
34:51Instagram
34:52Facebook
34:53we have had
34:54when we've had budget
34:54earlier on
34:55we have done some
34:56social advertising campaigns
34:58unfortunately with
34:59limited budgets
35:01and our choice
35:02to protect the IP
35:03because it is a product
35:03that hopefully we can see
35:05well we can very much
35:06see in the future
35:07in retail
35:07has been our strategy
35:09in terms of our budget
35:10Yeah I'm just concerned
35:11that you might have
35:12protected the IP
35:12so much that you forgot
35:13about trying to
35:14actually sell the product
35:17Can I ask you
35:18what your plan is?
35:19So you're obviously
35:20doing direct to consumer
35:21at the moment
35:22Yes
35:23But you're looking
35:24to find retail partners
35:25Exactly
35:26So who's your dream retailers?
35:30Obviously Boots
35:31Superdrug
35:32look fantastic
35:33some of those
35:33really big beauty retailers
35:35So what's your margin?
35:38What will you be selling
35:39to a retailer for?
35:41So retailer
35:42selling at £6.60
35:44Okay
35:45With the cost of manufacture
35:47£3.10
35:48with the retail price
35:49of £12.95
35:50It feels to me
35:51like a £9.90
35:52It feels like
35:53a £10 product
35:55Is that within your sights?
35:57Do you think
35:57you'd be able
35:58to get your costs down
35:58enough to get it
35:59Absolutely
36:00Absolutely
36:00With the volume sales
36:02and the market potential
36:03that we can see
36:05we can absolutely
36:06see those coming down
36:07to be able to
36:07make it a successful
36:09price point
36:09for anyone
36:09I just think
36:10it would make
36:11a massive difference
36:11Yeah
36:12And the reason
36:13we're here today
36:14is that we very much
36:15need that guidance
36:18and direction
36:18to take it
36:19to the next level
36:21So
36:21I look at this
36:23and say
36:23is this a one
36:25product business?
36:27That's my question
36:29Okay
36:29We believe it isn't
36:31We have product
36:32range development
36:33in mind
36:34so the dream
36:35would be to have
36:35your home
36:36nail care manicure kit
36:37all in one
36:38so nail pad
36:39is just a part of that
36:39but you have your bag
36:40for your nail care accessories
36:41your nail polish
36:42your kit
36:43all in one
36:43off you go
36:44Right
36:45Okay
36:45Is anybody else
36:46doing this?
36:47So there are
36:48a few items
36:49on the market
36:49nothing that has
36:50the USPs we do
36:51which is the well
36:52the flat surface
36:53the hinge
36:53and the leg
36:54So explain
36:55the competition
36:56of what they do
36:57and the price
36:57Yeah
36:58So they have
36:58there's a wearable ring
37:00out there
37:01so you wear the polish
37:02on your hand
37:02Oh that's clever
37:03So that's one option
37:05Another one is
37:06a slightly larger cushion
37:07that you can use
37:08for your hand
37:09What do they retail for?
37:10So the cushion
37:12I think is around
37:1318 or maybe just under
37:14and the polish
37:15holder is around
37:168 pounds
37:17Okay
37:18You've come in here
37:19asking for 60,000
37:20Yeah
37:20Giving away 35%
37:22Yes
37:22So who owns
37:24what at the moment?
37:25So at the moment
37:25it's 50-50 split
37:27between
37:27So when you give away
37:2835%
37:29to a dragon
37:30the dragon
37:31will be the biggest
37:31shareholder
37:32Yes
37:33Yep
37:34We wanted to make
37:35our offer to a dragon
37:37hopefully interactive
37:38not only as an investment
37:39point of view
37:39but very much
37:40as a business partner
37:42point of view
37:42We're incredibly proud
37:44of where we've got to
37:44but we need
37:45guidance and direction
37:46to take our product
37:47which we've tested
37:48validated
37:49protected
37:49to be able to take it
37:51to volume
37:52to make it accessible
37:54for anyone that enjoys
37:55painting their nails
37:55at home
37:57Sorry Carrie
37:58I actually think
37:59that the product
38:00has potential
38:02That potential
38:03is realised
38:04then by
38:04the founders
38:05Yeah
38:06The key area
38:06where you need support
38:07is the strategy
38:08of how you grow
38:09this business
38:09Absolutely
38:10Yes
38:11So as an investor
38:12I go yeah
38:12I can do that
38:15But I have
38:17when I wake up
38:18I have 16 hours
38:18left in the day
38:19and that's my currency
38:21and where I deploy
38:22those 16 hours
38:23determines all of
38:24my outcomes in life
38:24and also the return
38:25I get my capital
38:26and my business success
38:27all of those things
38:28So I think
38:28do I yield
38:29the best possible return
38:30from spending an hour
38:31giving this business
38:32a strategy
38:33or another business
38:33a strategy
38:34where I think
38:35another business
38:35might have a greater
38:36scope of potential
38:38has more products
38:39has more sort of
38:40global opportunity
38:41and that's really
38:42where I've got to
38:45and that's the reason
38:46I'm going to say
38:46that I'm out
38:46Thank you
38:47Thank you
38:50So I tell you
38:52what I think
38:52I think you have
38:53got a bit of an issue
38:54about getting into retail
38:56Okay
38:57as a one line product
38:59Yes
39:01Because what you do find
39:02is when you go
39:03into these big stores
39:04they have usually
39:06a branded range of
39:07you've got your clippers
39:08you've got your
39:09you know
39:09nail scissors
39:10you've got your nail polish
39:11and if you look at it
39:13it's all pretty
39:14one branded
39:14Yes
39:15So trying to get
39:16knock something off
39:17those shelves
39:18and put your one product in
39:19is going to be difficult
39:21Absolutely
39:21So you need to work
39:23that out
39:24and I think that you
39:26probably are looking
39:27for more advice
39:28than an investor
39:29certainly I'm going to be
39:30able to give you
39:31on a regular basis
39:32Yeah
39:33So I'm afraid
39:34I won't be investing
39:34I'm out
39:38Tori and Carrie
39:39I think
39:40look I'm no expert here
39:41but I've
39:42I've grown up
39:43with
39:44so many girls
39:46and when I see them
39:47doing the nails
39:47I'm not sure
39:48they'd use the product
39:51I think
39:52they will go
39:52straight to
39:53a table
39:54or they'll go
39:55straight to an area
39:55where all of
39:57this is set up
39:58I don't think
39:59this is a home product
40:00at all
40:01I think this is
40:02a almost
40:04giveaway gift item
40:05for travel
40:08with 7k of sales
40:09as well
40:10I'm not sure
40:11the product
40:13is going to make it
40:14and that's my concern
40:17So I'm going to say
40:18that I'm out
40:19Okay thank you
40:19Thank you so much
40:20Thank you
40:23Tori, Carrie
40:24Yes
40:24So I think
40:25I sit here
40:26in quite a unique position
40:27Deborah doesn't
40:29paint her nails
40:29so of the five of us
40:31I think I'm the only one
40:32who has
40:33direct experience
40:34of the problem
40:35you're talking about
40:36and what I can say
40:37is there is
40:38definitely a market
40:39for this product
40:42My concern is
40:43when Tuga asked you
40:45about the competitive
40:45landscape
40:47the two competitors
40:48you described
40:49I immediately thought
40:51oh they sound good
40:52I'd buy one of those
40:54yet I've experienced
40:55and seen this product
40:56and I thought
40:57it's not for me that
40:59I think
41:00from what I've heard
41:02the competitors
41:03in this space
41:04have a better way
41:05of solving the problem
41:06than I think
41:07your product does
41:08so I'm really sorry
41:10today
41:10I won't be investing
41:11and I'm out
41:15So
41:15I'll tell you
41:16where I stand
41:18I feel like
41:19you've done half a job
41:20Yeah
41:20absolutely
41:2190,000 pounds
41:23your journey
41:24is halfway there
41:26and what I mean
41:27by that
41:28it's
41:28single item
41:30difficult
41:32I think
41:34there is
41:34definitely
41:34scope
41:36to do a whole pack
41:37whole product range
41:38absolutely
41:38there's definitely
41:39something there
41:40you need to look
41:42at the competition
41:42very seriously
41:43you know
41:45and
41:45in a way
41:48the information
41:49that I've got
41:50today
41:52as a business
41:53is not investable
41:54but I can see
41:56where this could
41:57go for you
41:59so I'm willing to
42:00if you want me
42:01a couple of sessions
42:02to come up
42:02have a chat
42:03to give you some input
42:05some direction
42:06I will do that
42:07for you
42:07Wow
42:08but as
42:09as what you've shown
42:10me today
42:11it's not investable
42:12so I'm out
42:13but my offer stands
42:15I would absolutely
42:16love to take you
42:16up on that
42:17thank you
42:17really appreciate it
42:18thank you so much
42:19that's a big win
42:20for the day
42:21take that as a huge win
42:22well done
42:23goodbye
42:24lovely to meet you
42:24bye
42:26no deal
42:27for the nail
42:28accessory entrepreneurs
42:30but an offer of help
42:31to polish their strategy
42:33has ensured that
42:34Tory and Carrie
42:35remain upbeat
42:38it's up on you
42:38very much
42:39we offered advice
42:41too
42:41wow
42:43we're leaving the
42:44the den
42:44so incredibly
42:45positive
42:46the journey's beginning
42:47and we're looking
42:48forward to what the
42:48future brings
43:01can I have a glass
43:02water
43:03do you want some
43:03yeah
43:04next up
43:06a pair of
43:07entrepreneurs
43:07with ambition
43:08set on the
43:09multi-billion pound
43:10supplements market
43:11they've come up
43:13with a product
43:13they claim
43:14is helping them
43:15intimately
43:16hi
43:17I'm Wesley
43:18hi
43:19I'm Lottie
43:19we're bringing
43:20a new brand
43:21into the den
43:22to help out
43:22in the bedroom
43:23sorry mum and dad
43:31condom
43:32why would you
43:33have a condom
43:34with a glass
43:34of juice
43:38Wesley and Lottie
43:39are business
43:40partners
43:40and life
43:41partners
43:42too
43:42we started
43:43dating in 2018
43:45and we got
43:46engaged within a
43:46year
43:46because I kind
43:47of knew
43:47she was the
43:48one
43:49and we got
43:51into this
43:51business
43:52just because
43:53we felt like
43:53there was a
43:54need for it
43:55from our own
43:56personal experiences
43:57and from what
43:58we saw in the
43:58market
44:01you okay
44:01yeah
44:02I can't talk
44:04don't talk to me
44:05please
44:05I'm thinking
44:06about my lines
44:19hello dragons
44:20my name is
44:21Wesley
44:21and my name
44:22is Lottie
44:23and we are
44:24the founders
44:24of Wiggy
44:25we're here
44:26today looking
44:27for a
44:27£50,000
44:28investment
44:28in return
44:29for a
44:3010% equity
44:30in our
44:31business
44:32during the
44:32COVID lockdowns
44:34Lottie and I
44:34experienced a
44:35very high level
44:36of anxiety
44:36for the very
44:37first time
44:39spending every
44:39day together
44:4024-7
44:41stuck at home
44:43we found
44:44that it was
44:44really taking
44:45a toll
44:45in the bedroom
44:46and for the
44:46first time
44:47we felt we
44:48were not in
44:48the mood
44:48as much
44:48as normal
44:49after talking
44:50to a few
44:50friends about
44:51this I found
44:52out that they
44:52were experiencing
44:53exactly the same
44:54thing which was a
44:55real light bulb
44:55moment for me
44:57one evening I
44:58turned to Lottie
44:59and said I'm going
45:00to create a
45:01supplement business
45:01to help people
45:02in the bedroom
45:04so we started
45:05researching online
45:06to find natural
45:07ingredients to help
45:08the libido
45:09so we realised
45:10we realised that we
45:10really needed some
45:11expert help with
45:11this so we
45:13found a local
45:13company to
45:14create the
45:14supplement for
45:15us from the
45:16ground up
45:16Wiggy was
45:17officially launched
45:18in September
45:18of 2022
45:20since the launch
45:21we have sold
45:22around 450
45:23units of the
45:24product we've
45:25turned over
45:26around £13,000
45:28in sales
45:29selling directly
45:30to the consumer
45:31on our online
45:32website
45:32thank you very
45:34much for listening
45:34we will hand out
45:35some sachets now
45:36for you to try
45:40a supplement
45:41claiming to help
45:42those suffering
45:42from a low
45:43libido is the
45:44proposition from
45:45Wesley Pearce
45:46and Lottie
45:47Gillman
45:47so we do a
45:49male and female
45:50product
45:51designed
45:52tailored for
45:53male and female
45:55they're asking
45:56for a £50,000
45:57investment
45:58in return
45:59for a 10%
46:00stake in the
46:01company
46:02cheers
46:03Peter Jones
46:04is first to
46:05probe the
46:06passion promoting
46:06pear
46:07and it appears
46:08their product
46:09has pleased
46:10his palate
46:13Lottie
46:14Wesley
46:14do you know
46:15what I was
46:15surprised at
46:16how nice it
46:16tasted
46:17thank you
46:17it's a mixed
46:18berry flavour
46:19we tested
46:20quite a lot
46:21of flavours
46:21yeah that was
46:22my favourite
46:23so what does
46:24it do
46:24what is it
46:24going to do
46:25to me
46:25now
46:25I've just
46:26drunk it
46:26well nothing
46:28after one
46:28sachet
46:29and could I
46:30not just
46:30take a
46:30could I
46:31not just
46:31put seven
46:32of them
46:32in one
46:33glass
46:33no
46:36it's not
46:37a viagra
46:38it's not
46:38an instant
46:39sex drink
46:40it is
46:41a daily
46:41supplement
46:42okay that's
46:43of no use
46:43to me
46:44whatsoever
46:46so what exactly
46:48is this product
46:48doing to solve
46:50the issues
46:52that you found
46:54in that lockdown
46:55period
46:55well I think
46:57it does help
46:59with the sex drive
47:00how
47:01well the ingredients
47:03that are in it
47:03are thought to help
47:05balance hormones
47:06so for us at least
47:08it definitely helped
47:09how can you prove
47:11that it helps
47:12well I can just tell
47:13you that you know
47:14it helped me
47:15and we've had a lot
47:16of great feedback
47:17from our customers
47:19have you done any
47:19sort of quantitative
47:20research or primary
47:21research
47:22no we're still
47:23so early days
47:24that we're still
47:25finding our feet
47:26with the brand
47:30I'm really curious
47:31about what you were
47:32talking about
47:33with your own
47:33personal story
47:34this happening
47:35in lockdown
47:35and then you
47:36seeing this
47:37as the solution
47:39for you to see
47:40this as the solution
47:42logically
47:43and I'm thinking
47:44about cause and effect
47:44there so the cause
47:45was you were
47:46kind of around
47:47each other all the
47:48time and there
47:48was anxiety
47:49so therefore
47:50I would think
47:50the solution
47:51would be
47:51to not be
47:52around each other
47:52so much
47:54potentially
47:55there's such
47:56vast things
47:57that are involved
47:58with sex
47:59and relationship
48:00there's no one
48:01simple cure
48:02I think
48:03there's a
48:05possibly a bit
48:06of a placebo
48:06effect
48:07to taking a
48:08supplement
48:08and you're
48:09actively doing
48:09something about it
48:12Wesley
48:13you talk about
48:14the ingredients
48:15yeah
48:15so what are
48:18the ingredients
48:18that have been
48:19clinically proven
48:21so the ingredients
48:22that are in it
48:23are the vitamins
48:23so vitamin B6
48:24is to balance
48:26hormones
48:26which is also
48:28linked to
48:28your sex drive
48:29the other ingredients
48:31that are in it
48:32are not necessarily
48:33scientifically backed
48:34but they are
48:35researched
48:36maca root
48:37is a very well
48:38known ingredient
48:39for the libido
48:41there's quite a few
48:42range of products
48:43in there
48:44you say maca root
48:44maca root
48:45maca root
48:46yeah sorry
48:47what is maca root
48:47sorry I'm a bit naive
48:49Tuka are you writing
48:50all of these ingredients
48:50down
48:51just to be clear
48:52we are not
48:53nutrition experts
48:54that's what worries me
48:55if you'd come in here
48:57and said
48:57this is what I'm
48:58qualified to do
48:59yeah
48:59and this is
49:01scientifically proven
49:03I can back it up
49:04yeah
49:04you'd have a bit
49:05more credibility
49:06I saw an opportunity
49:08yeah
49:08I respect that
49:09I'm quite a creative person
49:11I respect that
49:12I'm quite into business
49:13so I tend not to go
49:15head first into something
49:16unless I really believe in it
49:17but I'm a great believer
49:19if you're putting something
49:20into your mouth
49:20into your system
49:21yeah
49:21we need
49:24that's why we
49:24contacted a company
49:26who specialised
49:27in creating supplements
49:28and we went back and forth
49:30back and forth
49:30with different ingredients
49:31we researched our own ingredients
49:33I said maybe this
49:34would work in there
49:35and they said yes or no
49:36it won't work
49:37and we landed on this
49:39Dragon's Den is the platform
49:41to come in and pitch anything
49:43yeah
49:43we're very open
49:44yeah
49:45we are
49:47well I am anyway
49:48a professional investor
49:49that will look at
49:50all aspects of the business
49:53and the entrepreneurs
49:54yeah
49:56and I just feel
49:57you might be onto something
50:00you've sold 450 units
50:03yeah
50:03so in my view
50:04you might be
50:05opening up a whole new category
50:07in this format
50:08and there's nothing wrong
50:10with having an idea
50:13coming to Dragon's Den
50:14and pitching it
50:14thank you
50:15and I admire you both for that
50:17thank you very much
50:17and unfortunately
50:19as far as the business is concerned
50:21it does not stack up for me
50:23so for that reason
50:24I wish you all the best
50:25but I'm out
50:26thank you Tuka
50:29so I struggled
50:31getting it to dissolve
50:32is that a common
50:33but that still hasn't
50:34it needs a good
50:35really good
50:35it needs a really good stir
50:38I push the little bits
50:40up against the side
50:41okay
50:42it's the wrong sort of glass
50:44to be honest
50:44it's a taller glass
50:45so you can really give it
50:46so you can give it
50:47a bit of
50:47a proper swell
50:48so why
50:49why Wiggy
50:51so
50:52funnily enough
50:53my nickname as a kid
50:54was Wiggy
50:55and so was mine
50:56so was her
50:56and we looked at it
50:57and we were like
50:57that's the perfect name
50:59for this brand
50:59it was brilliant
51:00it was really funny
51:01it was a match made in heaven
51:02yeah
51:02it was meant to be
51:05Matty
51:05Wesley
51:06can I just start by saying
51:07I totally get it
51:08yeah
51:09I think
51:09I can see how you
51:10that need has come to light
51:12yeah
51:12I also think that
51:13no one's talking about this enough
51:15they really aren't
51:16and it is quite brave of us
51:17to come and say this
51:18because I think
51:19no one really wants to talk about it
51:20and I really hope
51:21by you getting up here
51:23and saying it
51:24might start the conversation
51:25that's part of our goal
51:26is to try and help people
51:28yeah
51:28so I totally get it
51:31right
51:31good
51:33what I don't get is
51:35why have you gone down the
51:36pour this and stir it route
51:38instead of like a gummy route
51:41or a vitamin tablet route
51:42because I'm looking at that
51:44that was hard work
51:45Deborah's given up on it
51:47yeah
51:47and also I don't know
51:49if I'll drink all of that liquid
51:50before bed
51:50because I'm thinking
51:51I'll be getting up for a wee in the night
51:52but if it was a gummy
51:53I'll take gummies before bed
51:55no problem
51:55or vitamins
51:56we've got plans to launch a gummy
51:58different flavours
51:59this is our sort of flagship product
52:02so why did you choose
52:04personally I don't like taking capsules
52:06I don't particularly like swallowing them
52:08so I thought I'd rather
52:10and you agreed
52:11didn't you
52:11you'd rather take a drink
52:12some of them are quite big
52:13and like it's stuck in your throat
52:14okay so it's really interesting
52:16that you've gone with
52:17personally you find this
52:19yeah
52:19however if I look at the supplement market
52:21I'm going to guess
52:22it's 99.9 something percent
52:26supplements like that
52:27we didn't want to just follow the crowd
52:28and do another tablet
52:29I just thought that
52:31this is a unique product in its own
52:33and the sachets add to the whole letterbox packaging
52:37do you know what I mean
52:37so we've sort of created an experience
52:40for the customer
52:41it worries me that you make product development decisions
52:43based on personal feeling
52:45and gut feeling
52:45it should be market research
52:46you know I've been very successful
52:48within the craft industry
52:49and I think where I won
52:52and won big
52:52is I didn't develop products
52:54that I loved
52:54I researched the market thoroughly
52:57and developed the products
52:58for the mass market
52:59and there is definitely
53:01a demand here
53:01I'm not sure
53:03that a little sachet
53:04is the right way
53:05to service that
53:06and I worry that
53:07you're thinking too much
53:08about you
53:09and your personal use of this
53:11so for those reasons
53:12I'm going to say
53:13that I'm out
53:14but I really hope
53:15you do that market research
53:16and make a success of this
53:18because there's huge potential in it
53:19I think so too
53:20yeah
53:20thank you
53:21thank you
53:23um
53:23Wesley Lottie
53:24I um
53:25I completely agree with Sarah
53:28I actually think
53:29it would be better in capsule forms
53:31you know
53:31I think that um
53:33when you talk about capsules
53:34that kind of feels
53:35a little bit more
53:36you know
53:37actually this is going to
53:37really do something for me
53:39but it isn't just that
53:41I do think the execution
53:43isn't
53:44as good as it could be
53:46yeah
53:46I think
53:48even its name
53:49turn out the name
53:50I love the name
53:52not for this product
53:53oh okay
53:54you can have a bit of fun
53:55and it can be frivolous
53:56but it doesn't
53:56give you any hint
53:58about what it actually is
53:59you know
54:00and I always think
54:01I always think
54:01when I look at brands
54:02I think
54:02alright
54:03without reading anything
54:04what do I think it is
54:06you know
54:07um
54:08so I think you know
54:09where I'm going
54:11but well done
54:12for coming up
54:13you know
54:13for talking about it
54:15for addressing it
54:16um
54:16and bringing it in the den today
54:18but I'm afraid
54:18it's not an investment for me
54:19so I'm afraid I'm out
54:23Wesley Lottie
54:24um
54:24I
54:25I would actually really love
54:27to invest in this category
54:28because everything you've said
54:30to me today
54:31I
54:32already know to be true
54:34a couple of my friends
54:35are experts in this space
54:36as well
54:37and libido issues
54:38are tearing
54:38great relationships apart
54:40so it's a huge issue
54:41huge demand
54:43and it's a space
54:45that unfortunately
54:46is becoming in greater demand
54:48every year
54:51so then it comes down
54:52to the product
54:52and its efficacy
54:53and as Deborah and Sarah said
54:55the execution
54:57like do I think
54:58that this is the surfboard
54:59that's going to ride
54:59that wave coming into shore
55:01and that's where
55:02my question marks are
55:04I have a big question
55:05on the efficacy of this
55:06like you know
55:07how can you substantiate
55:09the claims you're making
55:09super important
55:10so get that right
55:12and you honestly
55:13have a great business
55:14but um
55:14this isn't the product
55:16that I'll be investing in today
55:17so I'm going to say
55:17that I'm out
55:22Lottie Wesley
55:23I think the branding
55:24and what you've done with it
55:25is really good
55:26thank you
55:26um
55:28but having a product
55:29that
55:31doesn't have
55:31an expert's
55:32push behind it
55:33and I'm not just saying
55:34an endorsement
55:35you know
55:35I use this product
55:36it's
55:37having some sort of
55:38credibility
55:39to know
55:40one
55:40that it's actually
55:41going to be okay
55:43to be taking the product
55:44yeah
55:44and two
55:45that there's credibility
55:46in terms of
55:47medically
55:48well this is why
55:49we used a
55:50professional manufacturer
55:52to make it
55:52and design it
55:53well it doesn't say anything
55:54on it does it
55:55it doesn't give you
55:56anything that says
55:57this is totally approved
55:59this is safe to take
56:01there's no medical statement
56:02yeah
56:03essentially it's a food
56:04supplement
56:05yeah
56:06essentially it's just
56:07it's vitamins and minerals
56:08um
56:09and no there's nothing
56:11dodgy in it
56:11no no
56:12but I think
56:13it is good
56:14and you know
56:15this is clearly
56:16and could be
56:17a real business here
56:18I'll probably
56:19have a sachet
56:20every single day
56:21for the next couple
56:22of years
56:22but
56:23joking apart
56:24it's just not
56:25it's not something
56:26that I want to
56:27sort of get behind
56:28and really push
56:29so for that reason
56:30I'm out
56:31all right
56:32thank you very much
56:33good luck guys
56:33thank you
56:34well done guys
56:35cheers
56:37with five no's
56:39the couple's product
56:40fails to stir the dragons
56:45Wesley and Lottie
56:46depart without a deal
56:49that's right
56:52I'm so glad we got to see
56:54this business in here
56:54because this is a
56:55silent issue
56:57that so many people
56:58are going through
56:58and I hope they win
57:00I don't think
57:00they'll win in this form
57:03we believe in our product
57:05we're not going to change it
57:06because they didn't like it
57:09we're going to keep going
57:10and they're going to regret
57:12not getting in early
57:13because next time I come on
57:14it's going to be
57:15a lot more expensive
57:18and with that
57:19the den closes its doors
57:21for the last time
57:22this series
57:24but before we go
57:27let's look back
57:28at some standout moments
57:30from what's been
57:31a remarkable ride
57:32good day
57:35dragons
57:36now lovers
57:42you can smile in them
57:44you don't have to act
57:44like terminator as well
57:45are you serious
57:47panel
57:47don't look at me
57:50just pause a minute
57:51you've got to try this
57:54try that
57:55how weird is that
57:56that's cheese and onion
57:57what a disaster
57:58when do I get my money back
58:00in seven years time
58:01oh my god
58:01seven years time
58:03can I finish
58:03is that okay
58:04I'm going to take
58:05Bartlett on
58:06good luck
58:07I can't not give you money
58:08I can't not make you an offer
58:10look at his face
58:11light up
58:12look at that
58:13it's lovely
58:15tempera's not out
58:16no no no
58:17no you've got it
58:18no no no
58:19oh well you know
58:21what has just happened
58:34you