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00:01The doors to the den are open once more.
00:05And the battleground for business is set.
00:08This is where fortunes are made and futures are forged.
00:13But in this brand new series, the game has changed.
00:19Alongside four seasoned dragons stands a revolving door of fierce investors.
00:26Ambitious, competitive, and ready to take on the old guard.
00:32Joining them tonight...
00:33I'm Tiny Temper. I'm a multi-platinum selling music artist.
00:37A chart-topping rhyme master is here to compete.
00:41Tiny, good to see you, bro.
00:42I was shook when I knew you were coming because I knew you'd outdress me.
00:44You know, that was my whole MO. Forget the investment.
00:46I was like, I need to outdress this guy.
00:50I'm best known as a creative, but I'm also a passionate entrepreneur and investor.
00:54Yeah, that brand game is really hard, and it's kind of a tricky space to put yourself in.
00:59My first business was a record label, but I also invest in property, art, start-up tech, and consumer brands.
01:06I like anything that's lifestyle. I'm very much into it.
01:09I invested in a consumer brand, and I helped it turn from a 4 million valuation into a 100 million
01:14pound business.
01:15I'm ready. Come on.
01:18Whoa!
01:19I would say my tenacity makes me successful.
01:21I don't necessarily agree with the valuation.
01:23I've come from very humble beginnings, and so maybe there's a fear of going back to where I started.
01:29If your friends' and family's money is already down the hole, I'm sure mine will probably end up there as
01:34well.
01:34I tend to look for driving entrepreneurs, so if you're willing to get up and do it yourself, that will
01:40usually get my attention.
01:41The pressure is on, and the dragons are sharpening their claws.
01:58I'm Alex, and this is my brother Sean, and we're from Warrington. They've got Tiny up.
02:04He's got his photo done. Look serious. They all look serious.
02:11Okay. Treats. Cookies.
02:16How do you like your cookie? Do you like white chocolate? Do you like the dark?
02:19I like white chocolate. White chocolate, yeah.
02:21What about you, Tuka?
02:23I'm a nutty person.
02:24Never a truer word.
02:29Alex is a wonderful brother.
02:33Before we started the business, we were best mates, and now we get to do this together, which is awesome.
02:41And we're still best mates?
02:42Yeah, best mates.
02:56Hi, dragons. We're the brothers behind the award-winning Junk Bakery.
03:02Reimagining junk food with an added protein and fibre, low-sugar sweet bakery range.
03:09My name is Alex.
03:10And my name's Sean, and we're here today with the opportunity to invest £100,000 in return for 5%
03:17of our business.
03:19Our story begins with our love of cookies.
03:22It all started long ago as two brothers chomping on bags of cookies in school classes.
03:28And then we started to grow up, and we started to realise that all those sugars, calories and fats were
03:34probably not that good for us.
03:36Over the last few years, multiple innovations have launched aimed at that health-conscious consumer, but in our most beloved
03:43food category, bakery, there was nothing.
03:47So we made it our mission to change that.
03:50Having led product development at one of the world's largest sports nutrition companies, I was in a great position to
03:57take on this challenge.
03:59So we have developed a delicious cookie. It has up to 90% less sugar than a standard supermarket or
04:06coffee shop cookie, and it has eight grams of protein and it's high in fibre.
04:13We've since quit our jobs and six months ago launched with Tesco in over 750 stores nationwide.
04:20And so far, financial year to date, we've achieved revenues in excess of £700,000.
04:26So, Dragons, we've brought our three flavours of cookie for you to try. Deborah, I'm going to apologise now.
04:34They're vegan. Sadly, they're not vegan.
04:37I'll have yours, Deborah.
04:41Low sugar cookies, aimed at the health-conscious consumer, are the offering from brothers Sean and Alex Brazel.
04:52That's mean. Stop being mean.
04:55The pair are seeking £100,000 in return for a 5% share in their business.
05:02I recommend starting with the white chocolate cookie first.
05:05Mate, I'll beat you to it.
05:09Alex and Sean might be this week's star bakers, but can the pair earn a handshake from a dragon?
05:20Alex, you said you worked at one of the world's top sports nutrition companies.
05:23What company was that and what was your role there?
05:26It was a business called The Hut Group and my role was new product development there.
05:32And in terms of the nutritional profile, how is this different from the cookies that I see when I go
05:38to my gym that are high protein?
05:40So, from a nutritional perspective, the cookies that you will have seen, Stephen, are very much aimed at the sports
05:45nutrition consumer.
05:47And so, the focus there is typically on the protein content.
05:50What we've really decided to do is, we want to show up in bakery.
05:56So, when you go into Tesco, our cookies are next to standard cookies.
06:01And for that reason, we've really focused on taste.
06:04And you've achieved, what, three grams of sugar per 100 grams?
06:09Yeah, exactly.
06:11Which is pretty good.
06:14I'm pretty surprised.
06:15It tastes really good.
06:18And of the 700k revenue you've done year to date, is it predominantly in Tesco?
06:22Yes, predominantly in Tesco.
06:24Is that your only retail location?
06:25Currently our only retail location.
06:28We had an exclusivity period with Tesco, which has recently expired.
06:32And we planned to launch with other grocers.
06:36I have to ask, why did you call it junk?
06:39So, when we were starting the business, there were health brands that were promising a really tasty product.
06:47And you'd end up eating it and only being disappointed.
06:51We felt that, through Junk Bakery, consumers would feel connected to the fact that we are basically trying to reimagine
06:59junk food.
07:00And it cuts through the noise of a...
07:02Because it makes me think it is junk.
07:05If you call your product junk, it's eliciting connotations that this is not good for me.
07:11So, we've worked with a consumer research agency who have helped us optimise the cues that we have on our
07:19packaging.
07:20So, sugar is still the most important call out to the UK consumer, and so that's why it's top right
07:25on pack.
07:26But calling it junk makes me think that it is junk, is what I'm saying.
07:33So, I've got a sweet tooth.
07:35But being really candid, I didn't find it that great as an experience.
07:41And the taste, I was a bit disappointed.
07:44I'll have it.
07:46Yeah.
07:47That was my favourite, the white chocolate one.
07:48Yeah, it's... I like it.
07:49But I didn't think it was...
07:51I knew that I was eating something that isn't really a proper cookie.
07:56I think I just prefer to buy a bad cookie and suffer the consequence of that one bad cookie.
08:04What's your sell-through?
08:06I mean, that would kind of answer a lot of that, wouldn't it?
08:08How many are you selling off the shelf?
08:10Yeah.
08:10Yeah, yeah.
08:11Our rate of sale is around four.
08:13It's slightly higher on the singles.
08:14Four per store?
08:15Yes.
08:16Per week?
08:16Yes.
08:17Four.
08:18And is that...
08:19What was the...
08:20What were they expecting?
08:23Much more than that.
08:24Sorry?
08:25They would be...
08:25I'm just answering your question.
08:27Much more than that.
08:30That's...
08:31That's not true, Peter.
08:32No, it was a launch brand.
08:33They'd suffer it because you're a new brand.
08:36They need to encourage new product categories.
08:38No.
08:38Four per store per week.
08:40That's not true.
08:41It's one of the top performing products in the category.
08:46So, I really appreciate your feedback on the product.
08:49Of course I do.
08:50It is obviously also subjective.
08:52We've had some amazing reviews since we've gone live.
08:55People love the product.
08:58Guys, um, I've made no investments in this sector.
09:04However, I know about business.
09:09So, what investment you've put into this business so far?
09:13Yeah, we have both individually put in 40k.
09:17Yep.
09:18And that was investing in the development of the product.
09:20Yep.
09:22And we did a friends and family investment round in 2022.
09:26How much is that?
09:28200,000 pounds.
09:30Wow.
09:31We then did an additional investment round in 23,
09:37from high net worths, which was 300k.
09:41And then we did a crowd fund last year.
09:43So, in total, how much did we raise?
09:46About 900,000 pounds.
09:47Much?
09:48900.
09:49900,000 pounds.
09:51Whoa.
09:52Congratulations.
09:56So, how much did you go in the bank?
09:59We've got around 125,000 pounds.
10:02So, you went for about 700,000 pounds?
10:05Yes.
10:05So far?
10:06Yes.
10:07Right, so give us some numbers so I get an idea of where the 700,000 pounds gone.
10:14Yeah.
10:15So, the first year we did 26,000 pounds in revenue and suffered losses of around 150,000.
10:23Losses?
10:24Yeah.
10:25The next year we did...
10:26That's okay.
10:27The next year we did 19,000 pounds in revenue and suffered 325,000 pounds in losses.
10:32Yeah.
10:33This year we're forecast to achieve 900,000 pounds in revenue and forecasting 245,000 pounds in losses.
10:42Losses.
10:43Losses.
10:43Okay.
10:44So, you've been losing money, right?
10:46And here we are back in a one-horse pony in a race, Tesco.
10:53If Tesco drops you in a year's time, what happens?
10:56Well, we're hoping that's not going to be the case.
10:58Well, no, but it's a risk.
11:01We have an exclusivity arrangement with Tesco too because it finished two weeks ago.
11:06And we're very, very confident that we're going to land one or two other major retailers by the end of
11:12this year.
11:13I think you're going to have to rely on a fortune cookie.
11:17Guys, I've cut in and I know that sometimes it's harsh feedback.
11:22It actually isn't.
11:23It's just honesty because you've spent 700,000 pounds and you've got to this point.
11:28You've had two years of planning.
11:30You've known that you've had an exclusivity with one major supermarket.
11:34You could have spent every minute of every day going to tee up your next opportunity.
11:41What's been stopping you from doing that?
11:44We knew that Tesco had to be a success in order for it to be rolled out.
11:50I'd also like to make the point we started trading in May 2023.
11:54So going from the space of 18 months to trading to launching.
12:00Do you think you've done well?
12:02Definitely, yeah.
12:04I think to go...
12:05I think this could be an issue.
12:08We're hungry for more, Peter, but...
12:11No, no, what I think the issue is is the fact of your level of expectation and what good is.
12:15Because I don't think the product's good enough. I really don't.
12:20And also I think an element of constructive feedback is really positive in a business.
12:24Because you have to take feedback for you to evolve and grow.
12:28Because you're limiting your opportunity otherwise.
12:32You have a business currently that is losing a lot of money.
12:37You're spending a lot of your family and friends money as well.
12:42So I can't invest in this today and say that I'm out.
12:45But I feel for you, so that's the only reason why I'm being tough on you.
12:51Yeah, I'm going to jump in here, sorry.
12:53I think you two as brothers, like the origin story, what you guys are trying to achieve in the marketplace,
13:00I think is great.
13:01But I do think that, you know, if your friends' and family's money is already kind of down the hole,
13:06I'm sure mine will probably end up there as well.
13:09So with that being said, I wish you guys all the best.
13:12I'm pretty sure you will make it regardless of whether anyone invests or not.
13:16But I'm out as well. Thank you.
13:18Thank you, Tony.
13:20Now, I'm obviously, I'm at a huge disadvantage because I haven't eaten one.
13:28It smelled absolutely delicious.
13:31But I can't taste it.
13:32So I kind of can't invest.
13:35You know, it doesn't make sense to me at all.
13:38So I won't be investing. I'm out.
13:44Guys, um, 700,000 loss is a lot of money for a cooking business.
13:51From what you've presented today, for me, it's not investable.
13:57So for that reason, I'm out.
14:00Take care.
14:05Alex, Sean, I agree with a lot of what I've heard today, but then I also, I disagree with a
14:09lot of it as well.
14:10Um, I, I think part of the issue you've had with the Dragons today is the ones that have tried
14:16it haven't really tried any of the competitors.
14:19I think they're kind of thinking about this through the lens of a cookie.
14:22Whereas when I tried this through the lens of the ones that I have in my gym, and my gym
14:26ones, I have to like endure it.
14:28It's like, it's, it's horrible.
14:31Um, so when I tried this, I was expecting to endure it.
14:35And my expectation was so low that when I tasted it, I was surprised.
14:41And that's what caused the delight.
14:42And through that lens, viewing it more as a health-positioned product, it's really good.
14:48It is really good.
14:51However, the branding of this is so confusing.
14:55This needs a radical rebrand because I am your customer and I wouldn't touch this.
15:00But congratulations on making something that's delicious.
15:02But I'm going to say that I'm out.
15:05Thank you. Thank you, everybody.
15:07Good luck, guys. Good luck, man. Good luck, the best.
15:12The two siblings leave the den with qualified praise for their product,
15:16but without shaking on a deal.
15:20You okay? Yeah.
15:23The dragons having held on to their dough.
15:27Brilliant experience.
15:29Obviously disappointed not to come away with investment, but always going to take feedback on board.
15:35I'm really proud of Alex, who had the vision for the product, which got the sort of feedback that it
15:40did from Stephen, which was really positive.
15:43And no one can take that away from us.
16:00I'm John McClary.
16:03I'm from a little town in Northern Ireland called Limavady.
16:08Our flagship product is Business Fives.
16:11The dragons.
16:12They might think that we're a trophy supplier.
16:15They might think that we're a kit supplier for corporate companies.
16:19They might think we do all of the above.
16:22Footy.
16:23Trophy store?
16:25What's different, though?
16:27I just thought they brought my trophies out.
16:30Maybe it's a tournament for multiple sports.
16:33Either way, it hasn't given a lot away, has it?
16:35No.
16:36Let's find out.
16:39I have such admiration and respect for all the dragons.
16:46I can't wait to see what my heart rate's going to do.
16:48But yeah, I'm super excited.
17:01Hello, dragons.
17:03What an honor and a privilege it is to finally say those words.
17:08My name is John McClary, founder and director of Business Fives Limited.
17:13Today, I am looking for a £50,000 investment in return for a 5% stake in our corporate charity
17:22sports events company.
17:24Business Fives is a mission-led business that creates memorable experiences,
17:30allowing professionals the chance to develop relationships while making a positive impact.
17:37Business Fives started off with five-a-side football.
17:40Since then, we have diversified into golf, mixed-touch rugby and eSports events.
17:47Along with our clients, we have helped raise over £1 million for charity.
17:55We help companies find new ways to connect employees, promote positive mental and physical health.
18:02We really, really help people develop their corporate culture.
18:08We have already helped connect 5,000 companies, delivering events across the UK and Ireland.
18:15To date, we have achieved sales of over £3 million, with revenue last year of £797,000.
18:24Our aim over the next three years is to increase the geographic reach of our events,
18:30and we see sponsorship revenue as a huge growth potential for us.
18:35Now, in true Business Fives style, we have created a micro Business Fives event for you.
18:42We've pretty much fast-forwarded all the good action, and we're going straight to sudden death penalties.
18:48Tiny, would you like to go on goals?
18:50Why not?
18:53A business which combines the worlds of corporate events, sports and charity, is the proposition from John McClary.
19:01Tooker, you're up first.
19:03First?
19:04Oh, God, everybody, brace yourself.
19:06One step.
19:07Oh, good effort!
19:11John is seeking £50,000.
19:15That was a cracking sieve, to be fair.
19:18In return, for 5% of his company.
19:22Look at Tiny's face, look at that!
19:24I'm ready, come on.
19:27Oh!
19:29Oh, he's good!
19:30Good save.
19:31He's good.
19:32Tiny temper has kept a clean sheet so far, but there's still one dragon to kick.
19:39Hey!
19:40Yeah!
19:40You let that in!
19:41You let that in!
19:44Well done.
19:45Thank you very much.
19:45So, can John net a deal in the den?
19:48Deborah Meaden's first up, and her questions are even sharper than her shooting.
19:57So, John, that kind of helped me, we obviously saw a bit of action there, but I still need a
20:02bit of explanation on the business.
20:05We essentially put on events.
20:07So, name a city in the UK, we've probably got an event there.
20:10So, we go out to the local business community, invite them along to come and take part in business vibes.
20:15They get their five-a-side team ready to go, and they pick a chosen charity to play for.
20:21They give us their company logo so we can do some marketing, get some positive brand exposure for them as
20:26well.
20:27They come along and enjoy the events.
20:29Okay, great, got it.
20:31So, what's your revenue? How do you make your money?
20:33We make our money from event entry fees.
20:36Which would be typically what?
20:384.95 plus VAT for a team of up to eight players.
20:42So, that includes, obviously, all your football, all your networking.
20:46We finish with a drinks reception and pizza buffet after.
20:50There's loads of matches on the go at one time.
20:53And then we finish up with a presentation and a Q&A with some former players.
20:58Okay.
21:00And how many of these a year would you be running?
21:03Around about 80 to 100.
21:06And can I just go through your revenue?
21:09I know that you said that you were turning over 700 and...
21:1397. 800?
21:14800. I didn't want to say 800.
21:16800 in the last year.
21:17What would that do in terms of profit?
21:20So, last year we actually turned over a net loss of £59,000.
21:25Okay.
21:27The year... Do you want a few other years as well?
21:30I'll tell you what, give me a year that you made money.
21:32Yeah.
21:32So, 2021, our turnover was £209,000.
21:37Net profit was £34,000.
21:402022, we turned over £584,000.
21:46And net profit was £78,000.
21:50In 2023, we made £695,000.
21:54And net profit was £86,000.
21:57Okay.
21:58So, you are turning over some pretty chunky money.
22:01Not a lot of it's dropping through to profit.
22:03And your biggest year, you've lost money.
22:05Why?
22:06We made some really key hires.
22:08That increase in wage bill was a huge factor for that.
22:12So, next year, what are you expecting?
22:14So, next year, we're forecasting £917,000
22:18and back to profitability with £91,000 in net profit.
22:28John, really fun.
22:30But how does this become a really big, scalable business?
22:33The big opportunities for us are in the geographic expansions.
22:37We would love to go to, well, we've got as far as Amsterdam.
22:41So, we've delivered three events in the Netherlands now.
22:43So, how big can the UK be for you as a business?
22:46I think we could get the UK to £1.52 million.
22:51£1.52 million revenue?
22:53Yeah.
22:54Okay.
22:55Not huge.
22:56Mm-hm.
22:57Not huge.
23:00Hi, John.
23:02So, if I'm a corporate, I'm going to pay you £4.95.
23:06And then, where's the charity bit?
23:09What happens with the charity?
23:09So, 10% of all our entry fees goes to charity.
23:13We have no control over where that money goes.
23:16That's your choice, what charity you pay for.
23:19So, how much money went to charity last year, in the full year?
23:23£76,000, I think it was.
23:24£76,000.
23:25Yeah.
23:27So, if you think about it logically as a business, I could decide, you know, which we all do, we
23:31could decide with all of our companies, a percentage contribution of their profits we give to charity each year, and
23:37we can choose to have those charities.
23:39Mm-hm.
23:41So, I'm just trying to get, unless I've missed something, I just want to find out what makes you different.
23:49Maybe I have missed it completely.
23:51So, we offer a top fundraiser price at each event, so they do some fundraising in advance, and that's allowed
23:56us to...
23:56Most of the companies, I do all this, I do this myself.
23:59Yep. That's the bit I don't understand.
24:02I've got a lot of different companies, they do all their own events, and then we run multiple charity events.
24:08So, I'm a bit confused about why, and it's Stephen's point, how do we grow this into a big business?
24:14I suppose it's the negative know-how that we've developed by delivering 300 events.
24:20We know how to deliver a really, really slick, private side football tournament.
24:24That is an amazing client experience, and we've really, really put a lot of effort into delivering a really, really
24:30good...
24:30See, that I get, I totally get that, but I'm sitting here, and I'm just sensing an element of conflict
24:36on the business model side.
24:37Let me explain. So, I've got my own foundation, had that for 20 years.
24:41We do a lot of stuff for charity.
24:44And I'm thinking, this is almost perfect, where there are some businesses that it's really good to make as much
24:51profit as possible,
24:52because you're investing in that business, and there's a tie to charity.
24:55The more money you make, the more options you have to be able to give to charity.
24:59But it feels like this is such a, for me, a real, almost not-for-profit organisation that you've built.
25:07And it's almost like I want to go, oh my God, it will be amazing to work with you,
25:11because I think you, the way you've presented and the way you've held yourself, I tell you, is exemplary.
25:18And I'm trying to think, actually, I'd love to lift this and shift this and put this into my foundation,
25:24as opposed to investing in it as a business.
25:27You have touched on so many stuff there. Thank you very much for your kind words.
25:33We have such, I really want somebody that shares our values and our mission.
25:38Those shared values are really important to me.
25:43Can I ask you a question? You used the word mission in response to Peter there.
25:47What is that mission? If you are to be successful, and we meet and have a coffee in a couple
25:52of decades' time,
25:52and you say to me, it was so successful, how would you have defined that success?
25:56One of the biggest challenges we had, because last year, together with our clients,
26:00we reached the million pound mark. Now, that was eight years of hard work.
26:04That was such a goal. And now we've kind of got that, what's next for us?
26:08I would love to say, right, I want to raise ten million pound.
26:11I think that's a really lazy goal to have. I haven't quite found that next goal yet,
26:16if I'm being brutally honest.
26:21That's interesting.
26:24I asked that question because I was hoping to place you in either of two categories.
26:29Either the sort of more charitable side, and then in my head, I'd go,
26:32OK, so this is going to be a great investment that's going to really change the world for the better.
26:36On the other side, you have a business. I thought, OK, so if he says business, I can mentally place
26:40him there.
26:41Your answer was, you don't know. And so because it's unclear, I don't know where to place this as an
26:48investment.
26:50So keep doing what you're doing. It's really important from a wellbeing standpoint.
26:53But I'm going to say that I'm out. Thank you very much.
27:01I think my worry for this, I do feel a little bit like I'm not quite sure what it is.
27:06I really like you. Thank you.
27:09But as an investment, I can't quite get it. So I'm really sorry, but I'm out.
27:15Thank you very much.
27:20John, I'll tell you where I am. So I think it's an incredible concept.
27:25But I personally don't feel like I will be able to give you the value that other dragons will be
27:31able to give you.
27:31So I'm out. Thank you very much, Tenny.
27:40You know your stuff, but I personally am not excited.
27:44I can't see how I, as a dragon, can add value to you.
27:50So for that reason, I'm out. Thank you very much, Ticker.
27:57John, your concept really resonates with me from a charitable perspective.
28:03But as a business, for me to get over the line and see what this opportunity is, I can't get
28:09there.
28:10But I would love to pick up with you and my foundation outside of the den.
28:15And we could share some information and share perhaps knowledge and who knows where that might lead in the future.
28:22But as an investment as presented today, I just can't get there.
28:25So that's the reason why I'm out.
28:28I would love to take you up on the opportunity to continue the conversation.
28:31I do really struggle with that tag of being an entrepreneur.
28:34I do see myself more as a social entrepreneur.
28:36You are a social entrepreneur and you should be proud of that.
28:43John may not have managed to leave the den with a deal.
28:51Wow, that was some experience.
28:53But he did make a positive impression on the dragons.
28:57What a great guy.
28:59Peter's words were brilliant.
29:02Hopefully it gives me a bit of self-belief to be able to go on and achieve bigger and better
29:06things.
29:08I'm definitely going to go away and dream up some big goals.
29:27Hi, I'm Rob and this is Jay and we are from the Active Hands Company.
29:32We'll see them for real anyway.
29:33Yeah, I know.
29:34Do you think this is the most nerve-wracking thing you've ever done?
29:36Yeah, yeah, probably.
29:38The company started out in a very small way, just myself and my mum.
29:41And it's developed over many, many years.
29:43And we are looking for the investment to take it to the next level really.
29:47So some kind of aids for people in wheelchairs.
29:50Aids for mobility.
29:53Interesting.
29:55So Rob's my boss, he's the CEO and I'm the Business Development Manager.
29:59It's just a really friendly company. Rob's a good boss.
30:03He pays me for not to specifically say that.
30:07There's not a bonus for that.
30:19Hi, I'm Rob and I'm the CEO of the Active Hands Company.
30:23Hi, I'm Jo. I'm the Business Development Manager.
30:25And we're here to ask for £75,000 for a 5% investment in our company.
30:32After my spinal cord injury many years ago, I found that the frustration of my reduced hand function affected my
30:39life much more than my reduced mobility.
30:42Using my engineering degree skills, we started designing products and in 2007, the Active Hands Company was officially incorporated.
30:50From that point, we have grown year on year and last year we turned over £738,000.
30:58Our products aren't just aimed at people with spinal cord injuries.
31:01We sell our own and other manufacturers products with an aim to support people with reduced hand function.
31:06And we have some examples to show you today.
31:08This is our general purpose gripping aid.
31:10It was our very first product which Rob designed many years ago and is still our most popular today.
31:15So as I pull the strap, my fingers will be pulled onto the weight.
31:20It will give me a very firm grip on the weight, so it can be used in many different situations
31:25and for gripping different items.
31:28Another of our newest additions is this adaptation, which is designed to help people to operate aerosol cans with just
31:34a squeeze, making them easy to spray.
31:36We also have a mini version for perfumes and aftershaves and we are currently prototyping a version for nasal sprays.
31:43We are looking for investment to help us increase our manufacture and design capabilities.
31:48We look forward to your questions and hopefully your investment.
31:53A one-stop shop selling products aimed at making the world more accessible is the offering from Joe Gumbly and
32:00Rob Smith.
32:01Just when there is stuff in the aerosol cans.
32:03So don't aim it at Stephen and Push, thank you.
32:09The pair are seeking £75,000 for a 5% share in their business.
32:15Burmese.
32:17Won't work on me.
32:20You need dragon mace to work on me.
32:24Mobility might be a market with meaning, but is there a business worth backing?
32:30For Deborah Meaden, this pitch hits close to home.
32:36So, I don't know if you know, my sister's in a wheelchair and she's got really...
32:41It's all about her hands because as long as she can do as much as she can with her hands,
32:45she can stay independent.
32:46So, does it actually improve the function of your hands?
32:49Because that's Emma's thing.
32:50What she...
32:50You know, she's worried that if she doesn't use them, she'll really lose function in her hands.
32:55They're not designed to actually improve your function.
32:59They're designed to overcome the reduced function that you already have.
33:02Right.
33:03So, Rob, can I ask, how did you...
33:06What was spinal injury?
33:07Do you mind talking about it?
33:08Oh, that's OK.
33:09OK, what... I mean, how?
33:10So, I had a cliff fall accident back in 1996.
33:14Gosh, a big shock because you were very active, obviously, if you were cliff climbing.
33:18Big change in life.
33:19Yeah.
33:19So, being able to do what you can...
33:21Yeah.
33:21..as much as you can...
33:22Yeah.
33:22..is really important for you.
33:24Yeah.
33:28Joe, Rob, hi.
33:29Hi.
33:30Well, there's no other words apart from congratulations.
33:33Got a great business.
33:35Some of these products, I don't know how unique they are because some of the products, I certainly recognise the
33:41grippers and the extending moveable unit.
33:46This.
33:46Yeah.
33:47So...
33:48There are quite a few variations of those.
33:50Yeah.
33:51But this one specifically has been designed for Rob to put on independently.
33:55Yeah.
33:55Do you mind showing me that?
33:56Because that's quite...
33:57I think that's quite key.
34:00So, this is...
34:01The way that this works here is not just a magnetic seal, it's also a vacuum seal.
34:06So, if I try to pull it off, it's very secure, it's not going anywhere.
34:10But I can easily release it just by pressing this little tab and it'll come off easily.
34:14Yeah.
34:15I do know some of these products because we used to sell some of these, particularly on the tablets.
34:20Yeah.
34:20And also sell them for vehicle use.
34:22So, they used to go into vehicles.
34:24Yeah.
34:25But you've taken it to another level.
34:26Really great.
34:27And I can see how versatile it is when you moved it.
34:29Yes.
34:30Yes.
34:30Really, really good.
34:31Yeah, it's really good.
34:32It's got the pivot here and moving around.
34:34Yeah, it's that that I think is brilliant.
34:36Yeah.
34:38Rob and Joe, how are you guys?
34:39Hiya.
34:40Good, thanks.
34:41I just wanted to say congratulations as well.
34:43I think the business is great.
34:45My Nan is a wheelchair user.
34:47So, I could see how a load of these products would be very useful for her.
34:51But the bit that's really excited me is I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and there's loads of guys that have
34:56come from the military with all sorts of, you know, things that have happened to them in their lives.
35:02But they're still very, very active.
35:05So, just a random question.
35:06Have you ever spoken to like, you know, the Paralympics or anything like that to see if there's any way
35:12that they could implement some of these products in part of their training?
35:17We have some Paralympians that use our products in their training.
35:20It's the individuals rather than the organisation.
35:22And Rob is a Paralympian also.
35:24Well, no, I'm not actually a Paralympian.
35:26I'm a para-athlete.
35:27I've not actually been to a Paralympics.
35:28Sorry.
35:29But, yeah, we have a few ambassadors who are Paralympians.
35:32Any notable names?
35:35So, Kylie Grimes has been one who's a wheelchair rugby player.
35:39Tully Kearney, yes, has also won two goals last time.
35:43Amazing.
35:43Guys, business-wise, so starting in 2007, did you say?
35:50Yeah.
35:50And your turnover of £738,000, that's in one year?
35:54Yes.
35:55That's the year that's just ended.
35:56Just ended.
35:57Yeah.
35:57That's impressive.
35:59So, £738,000 in turnover.
36:01Yes.
36:02And net profit?
36:0419.
36:04It was 19 last year.
36:05OK, so you make your profit.
36:06Have you always been profitable?
36:08We had one year, so the year before it was minus five, net loss of 5,000.
36:13And what causes the net losses?
36:17We didn't increase our prices in line with what they were increasing to us,
36:20because we're very price sensitive knowing that our customers struggle a lot
36:23with the cost of living.
36:25Yeah, I am one of our customers and I'm very aware that it's difficult
36:29for people with disabilities, particularly at the moment.
36:32So, we were getting a lot of price rises and we didn't raise our prices enough
36:37to cover that, basically.
36:39To keep up with it, yeah.
36:39So, we've addressed that now.
36:41You have learnt a lesson.
36:43We have, yeah.
36:43I mean, because to be helpful to your customers, you have to have a sustainable business.
36:48Yeah.
36:48And therefore, you have to drive profit.
36:50So, there's no shame in that, because otherwise you wouldn't exist, would you?
36:54Yeah.
36:55Joe, Rob, in terms of revenue growth, what are you forecasting for next year?
37:02Yeah.
37:03Yeah.
37:03So, next year we're thinking 900 turnover.
37:06Yeah.
37:07With the same margins?
37:08Yeah.
37:09Roughly.
37:09Pretty much.
37:10And do you currently own 100% of the business?
37:13So, it's owned within our family.
37:15So, it's myself, my sister and my dad own all the shares.
37:19An investor changes that dynamic.
37:21It's no longer a family business.
37:22There's, you know, investors bring with them expectations of returns.
37:27And they often bring with them expectations of returns within a certain time period.
37:31Are you sure that that is what you want?
37:35It's always been a family business.
37:38And we like the idea of it continuing in a family business for a certain amount of time.
37:43We'll have to see, you know, understand you need to get some money out of it as well if people
37:47are investing.
37:48So, there could be options to work out how to do that.
37:52Yeah.
37:53What do you think next year, when you hit your 900 odd K in revenue, what do you think the
37:58net profit will be?
38:00We're projecting 60.
38:02Okay. And are you both taking income out of that?
38:06So, I'm an employee, so I have a salary.
38:08Yeah. So, we have about eight to ten employees and everyone gets a salary.
38:16And then the directors get a small dividend as well.
38:19The reason why I'm asking that is quite important, because at 60K profit, if I own 5% of the
38:23company,
38:24and we were to declare a dividend, I'm going to get £3,000.
38:27And to get my money back is going to take me 25 years.
38:30Yeah.
38:33That's the challenge, I think, here.
38:36Yeah.
38:36Yeah.
38:38Guys, I'm going to tell you, your valuation is quite racy.
38:43Why do you think your business is worth £1.5 million?
38:46I think, you know, we're quite well established already.
38:49It was two times the turnover, and we thought that was a fair assessment.
38:54Well, yeah, but it's got a dry value.
38:56So, you know, 20 times turnover might work if the profit is absolutely huge.
39:01But in this case, it's not.
39:05Your net profit is, well, you're saying £60,000 or £900,000?
39:11Yeah.
39:11I could put money in the bank and earn that.
39:14I think we're still trying to catch up from all the price increases on our raw materials and some of
39:19the products we are buying.
39:20Yeah, so here's where I stand.
39:23I won't, I mean, the valuation, I can change.
39:26But you've got this combination, which is a lovely combination, of wanting to do the right thing and helping people
39:32who have experienced the same things that you're, so that's lovely.
39:35The minute you get the investor in, you get a slightly different dynamic.
39:40And I worry that you would find a tension in the things that you want to do, and also to
39:48give an investor what an investor needs, which is a return.
39:51I think, I think this is brilliant.
39:53And I promise you, you've just won yourself a new customer, because I know my sister is going to be
39:59delighted when I go back and say, there's a site you need to get onto.
40:03But honestly, I can feel this would be a really uncomfortable investment for me.
40:08So, I won't be investing, and I am out.
40:12But, you know, all credit to you, and thank you.
40:18Joe, Rob, I think it's, I mean, I couldn't agree more with what Deborah said.
40:23The more I've heard your pitch, the more wonderful I think this business is.
40:26But on the other side, as an investor, I have a series of conflicting emotions.
40:33I'm not going to invest in the business.
40:34I'm going to say that I'm out.
40:35But I wish you the very best.
40:40Rob and Joe, having listened to all of this, there's definitely a remarkable story here.
40:50However, all these things come back to one thing.
40:53To me.
40:54You are a family business.
40:57I am not a passive investor.
41:01You know, all the things that I invest in, I get involved in.
41:04And I would probably drive you guys crazy.
41:07You know?
41:08That's true.
41:11No comment.
41:11No comment.
41:13And I think you don't need an investor.
41:18So for that reason, I'm out.
41:27Tiny and Peter.
41:31I think you've created something out of a necessity, actually.
41:39The issue is that the product set doesn't generate, even if you're starting to sell in the millions, sufficient return.
41:48And that's what I think is the problem here.
41:52I really wish you the very, very best.
41:55I'm not going to invest, and I'm going to say that I'm out.
41:59But good luck to you.
42:01I'm actually really glad to hear that, because in my world, there's so many people that would benefit from this.
42:07So, you know, even after this, I would love to, like, keep in touch with you guys.
42:11But I have no clue about the space.
42:14So, if I'm being entirely honest, I was hoping someone like a two-car or Peter would want to invest.
42:21And then, therefore, maybe I could get involved, because they would have the infrastructure and the network and the distribution,
42:26et cetera, et cetera.
42:28But they haven't.
42:29So, with that being said, I'm also out.
42:34Good luck.
42:35Okay.
42:35Thank you very much.
42:36Cheers.
42:37Bye.
42:38No deal for Rob and Joe.
42:40Their mission to make the world more accessible struck a chord, but sadly, it wasn't enough to secure the backing
42:47of the dragons.
42:48It's a shame that we didn't get the investment, but we see where they're coming from.
42:52Yeah.
42:52So...
42:53We'll do all right, anyway.
42:55Yeah.
42:56Definitely one of those where you're trying to find a way to invest.
43:00Yeah.
43:00I was hoping there was an angle, honestly.
43:04I felt in there that people believed and could see what we were trying to do, and it was nice
43:10to get the positive feedback on that.
43:11I think we'll follow up on that and carry on doing what we're doing, because they were very positive about
43:15what we're doing already.
43:16Yeah.
43:30I'm Rom from London, and I'm the founder of Health & Holistics.
43:35So, Health & Holistics offers a range of supplements, which are very powerful, and I wanted to spread these powers
43:41for everybody.
43:44Yeah.
43:44Seaweed.
43:45Mmm.
43:46Interesting.
43:47Why do you buy it, though, when it's freely available, you just go to the seaside, don't you?
43:50It's charitable.
43:53Walking into the den today, I feel powerful and strong, and ready to take it to the next level.
44:05Blessings, Dragons. My name is Rom, and I am proudly the founder of Health & Holistics.
44:10I am here today to offer a 10% equity for an investment of £100,000.
44:16What once started as a programme under a non-for-profit youth organisation has since evolved into a successful business
44:23turning over six figures.
44:25Built on the back of nature's most amazing superfood, sea moss.
44:31A powerful, mineral-rich type of algae which can be used to support joint health, gut health, as well as
44:38skin conditions.
44:40I used sea moss throughout my career as a Muay Thai fighter, where I often experienced injuries and inflammation.
44:48This experience lit the fire, and I began to research more about sea moss, until eventually I introduced it at
44:54our youth fundraisers.
44:55And the response was incredible.
44:58This momentum led us to transition Health & Holistics into a standalone business.
45:03Now, those same young adults don't just attend the programme, they have the potential to earn and have direction.
45:10To date, we have supplied Planet Organic with sea moss, as well as currently being on the shelves at Whole
45:17Foods UK nationwide.
45:19The next step is supermarkets.
45:22I do have a product that we've been working on.
45:25It's a juice with our sea moss gel inside, and I'd love to bring some around for you guys to
45:29try.
45:30Lovely.
45:33A wellness brand that advocates the use of sea moss is the proposition from Rome Hagiga.
45:40So, the one that I've given you already is a grape juice.
45:43This is a pineapple and ginger with lime.
45:46All of the juices have sea moss inside.
45:49Rome is seeking £100,000.
45:52Pineapple, ginger, might be good for the throat.
45:54Oh, yeah, it's brilliant.
45:55In return for a 10% share in his business.
45:59I'd love to know which one was your favourite as well.
46:02I don't like both of them.
46:05Rome's gel-infused juices appear to have slipped down smoothly.
46:09And Stephen Bartlett wants to find out more about the man behind the moss.
46:18What is your background?
46:20Sure, OK.
46:24At a young age, I started martial arts.
46:27I then went on to study structural engineering.
46:29I went on to work as an engineer in Qatar, Dubai and Kuwait.
46:34Upon my return to the UK, I started my own construction firm.
46:37I was doing well.
46:39My passion has always been working with young adults.
46:42So, what I did is I started a non-for-profit youth organisation
46:46where I could take young adults and put them into different programmes.
46:49One of the programmes that I launched was a careers programme,
46:51which allowed me to take these young adults onto site,
46:54to my construction business and my projects.
46:57This programme excelled and I launched more programmes and launched more programmes
47:03to the point where I did put my construction business on hold
47:06to be able to commit to health analytics.
47:10What was the moment when you first tried CMOS personally?
47:12Like, was there a eureka moment for you?
47:15Sure.
47:15So, at a young age, I knew about CMOS already because of my cultural background.
47:20So, I grew up...
47:22My mother's Persian.
47:24But I didn't always grow up at home with my mother.
47:26I grew up in the residential system.
47:29The residential system?
47:31Yeah, the youth system.
47:32So, I was with my mother until a young age, but then I left when I was quite young.
47:36And then I was in different homes until I was of age to be able to live by myself.
47:43That was because of me being a boitous young man.
47:47And, yeah, growing up in North London, in Tottenham,
47:52I grew up with a lot of ideologies of what life should be like
47:56until I got a grasp of what real life is.
47:58Well done.
47:59Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
48:00You've had a lot of odds against you.
48:02So, it's a really, really inspiring story.
48:05Let's talk about the business then.
48:07So, what year did you launch?
48:09And can you give me an overview of what the numbers look like since then?
48:12Yeah, sure, absolutely.
48:13So, we're in our second year now.
48:16Our first year turnover was £123,000.
48:20And our net was, unfortunately, a loss of £16,000.
48:26So, what's the total revenue so far in your second year?
48:28In our second year, I believe it's about 50, approximately £55,000.
48:34And net profit is approximately £8,000.
48:38Okay.
48:39My last question's on the branding.
48:41I can see it from here.
48:43I'm not entirely sure who you're aiming at.
48:46There's the brown packet top right, there's a white packet, there's these jars which look a little bit like cough
48:50syrup.
48:51Then there's these sort of more whole food-y style jars over on the left, which have the brown labels.
48:56It doesn't actually look like a brand, it looks like a selection of products.
49:01Sure.
49:03So, all of the products that you see which have got the Whole Foods colour label that you mentioned, the
49:08jars, those are all our CMOS products.
49:10The other products, those are not CMOS products.
49:12What do they have inside, what's the...?
49:14So, for example, here we have a Pure range.
49:17It's just turmeric, ginger, green tea.
49:21Up here we have Shilajit.
49:22It's another product completely.
49:24You should really, it's tough enough to make a brand penetrate, especially in this market.
49:29What you need to do here is to focus.
49:32And actually the CMOS narrative that you gave me was original and unique for me, because I'd never heard about
49:38CMOS before and its health benefits.
49:39The minute you stray into just general supplements, everything gets more confusing and less distinctive.
49:45My advice to you here would be go after CMOS, because that is a space you can own.
49:55I've got to say that I totally disagree with Stephen.
49:59And the reason why I disagree is I think you've created like a very Holland and Barrett-esque identity.
50:06You've got a very clear logo stand out there.
50:10You've also differentiated with different colour labels and that works.
50:13And I know that that works because I sell millions of products doing exactly the same thing.
50:18I think that this tastes absolutely fantastic.
50:22I was not expecting it to taste as good.
50:25Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
50:26And also I go further, I think you're a gift to humanity as well.
50:31Anybody that can go through life and then decide to give back the way that you have, it's absolute credit.
50:40I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
50:43I think it's, you know...
50:48Yeah.
50:53Thank you, sir. I really, really do appreciate your words. They mean a lot. They really do.
51:00I'm a massive fan of CMOS by the way. Like I think if you're Afro-Caribbean you understand what CMOS
51:05is.
51:06Brilliant. I use it, my kids use it. It's amazing.
51:09I think all I wanted to understand was just the competition because I found myself getting CMOS from like, you
51:18know, like an Afro-Caribbean shop for example.
51:20So who is your main competitor in this space?
51:23So in this space we have, we've got different competitors. I would say one competitor is turning over £120,000
51:29to £160,000 monthly on Amazon only.
51:33And what would you say makes Health and Holistics different to them?
51:38Sure. Well, straight off the bat, our ethos, our mission, where we are rooted from, as well as that, my
51:49knowledge of CMOS and the story of our brand, I believe really makes us stand out.
51:56Hi, Rome. Yes, sir.
51:59A remarkable story.
52:00Thank you so much.
52:02And I'm looking at you and I'm saying, how do you make this into a property?
52:06Because at the moment you've come in with a valuation of a million.
52:09Yes, sir.
52:09For a business that's turning over a hundred odd grand.
52:12Sure.
52:14How did you or whoever advised you said that it's worth a million pounds?
52:19Sure.
52:20So the valuation I believe is justified based on the strong revenue that it has in its first year without
52:27tapping into any marketing.
52:29I appreciate that. But as we stand today.
52:32Sure.
52:33Would you say it's worth a million pounds?
52:38Mr. Tucker, yes, I would.
52:39The justification is based off of several factors, not just one.
52:43So, speaking about our competitors, there is a massive market to tap into on Amazon, which we haven't.
52:49With the retail contracts that we've secured, there is lots of opportunity currently available at our doorstep to exponentially grow,
52:59as well as the supermarket.
53:00So what you're telling me is, if all the levers are pulled, in six to twelve months' time, the million
53:08valuation will be valid?
53:10Absolutely.
53:11But not today.
53:13You've done a great job.
53:15But I'm contemplating, are you here too early?
53:18One.
53:19Is the valuation too high?
53:21Two.
53:22That's my concern.
53:26I'm going to say where I am.
53:28There's so much work to be done here with this business.
53:33And for that reason, it's like really, really difficult to get to a point of high conviction about how to
53:39take this forward.
53:40And I think about the branding work we've got to do.
53:42There's marketing work we've got to do.
53:43There's so much to do here.
53:45And I just don't think that I could do that on my own.
53:52But I think you're worth us trying to do it together.
53:57And so for that reason, I am going to make you an offer.
54:01You've asked for £100,000 for 10% of the business.
54:18Which would mean that for this deal to go ahead, we'd need at least two other dragons to come in
54:22with me.
54:23And again, you're a credit to the community.
54:24You've helped lots of other people.
54:25So this is an opportunity both to build a great business, but also to pay it forward to a young
54:29man that I think deserves his turn for the universe to turn in his favour.
54:32So that's my offer.
54:33Thank you very much.
54:34I'm going to jump in there as well.
54:35I would offer a third of the money for 10% as well.
54:40And I'm definitely going to be the third, 100%.
54:44I was absolutely...
54:46I think that is a great, great offer.
54:48And I'm really chuffed that Stephen started that.
54:53Thank you very much.
54:55Look, you've got three great offers.
54:57You know, that's because you're a great guy.
55:00And I would be very willing to offer you a third on the same basis, 33 and a half, for
55:1010%.
55:13OK.
55:13Thank you very much.
55:16Listen, I couldn't be happier that you've got four offers. I couldn't be happier.
55:25I'm actually not your natural partner.
55:28So I will wish you all the best and you're going to have a big choice to make now.
55:33But I'm going to have to say that I'm out.
55:37You probably need to go and talk to the wall.
55:38Or maybe you don't need to talk to the wall.
55:40Thank you very much as well.
55:43OK.
55:44Dragons.
55:47I did come in here today with my goal of not letting go of more than 20% of the
55:54business.
55:55So based on that, if you could share between the three dragons.
56:01Which three dragons?
56:03If it was to be three dragons.
56:04Right.
56:05Because as you mentioned, you're willing to put in a third.
56:08Yeah.
56:09So if it is to be three dragons, to be 7% share rather than 10%.
56:13So then that equates up to 21%.
56:17Can I ask you a question?
56:18Yes, sir.
56:20Why 20%?
56:22Because this is my life.
56:24Hmm.
56:25This is going to be setting up for my children.
56:28So I need to bring it in.
56:30How about this then?
56:31I'm going to throw this out to a lifeline.
56:32If we were returned our money, I'd personally be happy to drop down to the 7% you've described,
56:41providing our capital is returned within, say, 24 months.
56:44Sure.
56:45Would you, Peter, Tukar?
56:47I'd agree to that.
56:48I'd agree to that, yeah.
56:49You would?
56:50Well, the thing is now, you've got to work out what the offer is.
56:52Do you want three dragons or four dragons?
56:56I would rather three dragons for sure, 100%.
56:57That's an easy choice.
56:59And who would you want to work with?
57:02OK.
57:03Sure.
57:03It's that time.
57:04It's that time.
57:08OK.
57:09Tukar, thank you very much for your offer.
57:13I'd like to go with Stephen, Peter and Tiny.
57:19Yeah?
57:20Yes.
57:22Well done.
57:23Excellent.
57:26Well done.
57:27Well done.
57:27Rome has brought it home.
57:29You're so much bigger than me.
57:32Securing the support of a top dragon trio.
57:36You've got tall, tiny, medium.
57:39There you go.
57:40Good luck.
57:41And departing the den with a six-figure sum.
57:45Boom.
57:46The Thai boxer-turned-businessman
57:49fought his corner to negotiate a favourable deal.
57:52It's time now.
57:54Now it's time.
57:55His pitch proving a knockout with Peter Jones.
57:58Wow.
57:59That was an emotional rollercoaster.
58:01Yeah, I see you tearing up there, Peter.
58:03Oh, wow.
58:03Yeah, really.
58:04Oh, my goodness.
58:06Woo!
58:09I want to go and see my children and give them a squeeze and tell them Papa done it.
58:23Next time, Jenna, you have returned.
58:26I have.
58:27I came back.
58:27We didn't scare you off?
58:28No, not yet.
58:29There's still time.
58:30I actually completely disagree with Stephen.
58:33Vampire.
58:34That's not.
58:35That is amazing.
58:36This would be the only money we raise over the next 12 months.
58:38That's not enough.
58:39You have no cash.
58:40You're currently insolvent.
58:41Oh, my God.
58:42My inner child is so excited to build that.
58:45Does he look like a Cyberman?
58:46You don't watch Doctor Who, do you?
58:48He looks like a Cyberman.
59:12griffin?
59:12That's not enough.
59:13Oh, my goodness.
59:14Yeah.
59:16Oh, no, no.
59:17Oh, no.
59:19Maybe do you like a Cyberman.
59:19I'm gay.