- 1 week ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:13All right how are you feeling? I'm ready to go. I'm Reid. I'm from Michigan, the
00:18middle of America, but I'm living in London currently. All right, good energy,
00:22good energy. I'm Trib. I'm from Middlesbrough, but living in London. We are revamping an
00:28outdated, undervalued industry. Could be you up there one day? It might be, we'll see
00:33how this pitch goes first. Trib and I met on a co-founder matching dating site, kind of
00:38Tinder for business people. It's good to meet somebody who has such a love-hate
00:43relationship with umbrellas that I do, so it's a good partnership.
01:11Hey Dragons, I'm Reid. I'm Trib, and we're the co-founders of Gilly. We're here to ask
01:16for £50,000 in return for 3% of our company. I moved from New York to London in 2019
01:23and
01:24was regularly sopping wet in this terrible British weather, because I couldn't find
01:28an umbrella I liked. They break, you lose them, and a wet umbrella is hard to put or
01:33carry anywhere, so you don't bring one when you leave the house, then end up buying
01:37one from a corner shop for £10 to £15, and that cycle goes on and on. However, now with
01:44the consumer shift in desires for durable quality products that you see in reusable
01:48water bottles and so many other categories, at Gilly we're redesigning the umbrella by
01:53creating one that works better than others and won't end up in landfill as so many do annually.
01:58Now there are a few things that make Gilly a very unique umbrella. Our core innovation
02:03is a completely dry after use umbrella through a hard watertight case, which then doubles up
02:09as an optional handle. This means that once you've used the umbrella, you simply close it,
02:14pop it away into the case, and it doesn't drip everywhere and make all your things soaking wet.
02:19It's also highly wind resistant, and it's compact and lightweight. This all means that it's
02:24conveniently on you at all times, not sitting in a corner or at the front of a restaurant
02:29somewhere drying out where you inevitably end up losing it. After two years of product development,
02:34we had a really successful launch on Kickstarter late last year, and I've sold over £100,000 to date
02:40to 1,700 customers in 46 countries. And now we're ready to take the umbrella market by storm. Thank you.
02:50An update on the umbrella, with a hard cover which doubles up as a handle, is the brainchild
02:56of Reid Jacoby and Trib Gossen. Thank you. The duo are seeking £50,000 in return for a 3%
03:04share
03:05in their business, and their product certainly appears to have struck a chord with Deborah Meaden.
03:14Guys, hi Reid, Trib. Hi. So, you're absolutely right. How annoying is it when you take your umbrella
03:23down and it goes all over you and it's in the car? So, congratulations. If you've nailed it,
03:30you really have got something. What I would like to understand, and it might be a naive question,
03:37but what is the difference between this and those umbrellas that I simply wrap up and put in a little
03:43case? Sure. So, it's a hard base cover that doubles as an optional handle because the seamlessness
03:50of the interaction is super important here. People are going in and out of the tube, in and out of
03:55the
03:56office, in and out of their car, and it's far too annoying to have a separate sleeve. With this umbrella,
04:02the canopy has a hydrophobic coating on it, so 95% of the water slides right off, and then there's
04:07a
04:07microfiber cap for moisture containment on the top, so when you put it away, that helps to soak up the
04:12excess moisture. Reid and Trib, give me your last three-month sales. Yeah, our last three months have
04:22been 23,000. 23,000 units? Sorry, 23,000 in revenue. Revenue, wow, okay. And that's been 700 units.
04:31What do they cost to make? Nine pound per umbrella, and that's for a minimum order quantity of 5,000,
04:37so that goes down substantially with greater volume order. Nine pounds? Yes. Wow, you're going to have
04:42two cabs, he can have that done for three dollars. Well, we'd like to talk to him about that at
04:47some
04:47point. At three percent? Oh, my God. I'm looking for the gold inside the pot. At, um, what does it
04:57retail for? 37. Because, to be honest with you, when I look at this, the quality of it, I think,
05:07is very
05:07basic. It looks cheap. The plastic looks cheap. It feels more like a 12-pound, 14-pound umbrella.
05:15Yeah. Um, we wanted to get out with version one. We wanted to get it into the hands of customers.
05:19This is the 14th prototype, and nothing beats having it out on the street. And so, we launched
05:24with that. We've taken feedback like that into account, and we have version two well underway,
05:29and that case specifically is now going to be made of a stainless steel. You're coming here with a
05:35valuation of 1.6 million? I haven't quite worked it out. Yes. Yes, yeah, 1.66. Did you get drenched
05:42that day when you worked out the, uh, valuation? Because how do you get a company that's done
05:48100 grand turnover to be worth 1.6 million pounds? Well, we had previous investors that came in at
05:561.535 million. So, you're valuing that on your previous investors? Well, and we also feel that
06:01that reflects the intellectual property protection of it. I mean, I'll be honest with you guys. I've just
06:07come back from a massive product fair in China. And I'm sure I saw similar things there. So,
06:13would you say that's unique? Yes. Yeah, absolutely, I would. So, I can't find anything like this
06:20anywhere in the world? Not that we're aware of. Can we just check what the IP is? Is it a
06:27patent
06:27or a design right? Design? It's a design right. It's a design right. So, what exactly, in terms of
06:35your protection, what exactly have you got? So, what we have is we cover, generically, a cylinder
06:42case with an umbrella that doubles as a handle. And so, somebody could create this idea in a square
06:51or a hexagon. But if they want to create a cylinder as a handle, they cannot do that. That is
06:58ours.
06:58But only if it looks like that and is a round cylinder. But if it had hexagonal outside.
07:09Well, it would have to be demonstrably different in the eyes of... No, I understand design,
07:15but it's very different to a patent. Reid, Trib, when you think about where you'll be in five
07:23years, can you just paint that picture for me? Sure. So, we're trending towards 900,000 units
07:28in year five. Which will deliver what in revenue? 26 million in revenue. Now, tell me how we get from
07:36today, where we're making, what, 23K to 26 million a year. Yeah. So, product expansion,
07:43an optimization of our own marketing, and geographic expansion as well. If we were to sit down again
07:50in five years and you told me, you know, where the business is at, what would you be saying to
07:55me?
07:56Phone, keys, wallet, Gili. The idea is for Gili to be the world's best umbrella at an attainable price
08:04and for us to become a global rainwear brand. Because if we go back to the reusable water
08:09bottles, you know, it has to be a Stanley Cup, it has to be a Yeti, it has to be
08:13a Chilis.
08:14And I think that that's where we want to go, is it has to be a Gili.
08:18So, this is a really good point. Yeah. This is one of the things I was hoping you'd say. Okay.
08:22Because I think one way to defend your product is the innovation of the product itself,
08:26but the other way to defend it is brand. And that's exactly what Stanley Cup have done. Yeah.
08:30And they've made a reusable water bottle culture. And this is doing nothing in terms of brand.
08:39So, how do we get from here to Stanley or here from Yeti or one of those really iconic cups?
08:45Yeah, for sure. So, I think a big part of this is getting a community of people who love the
08:51product
08:52and being laser focused on who those people are. And so,
08:55our customer is probably aged between 25 to 45, the kind of modern commuter. These are people who are
09:02on the go. And above all else, they value high quality, durable products that are aesthetic and
09:08functional over cheap, disposable rubbish, essentially. Guys, I am, I think the audience
09:16you're targeting are an audience that care a lot about brand. That audience, that sort of Gen Zennial,
09:23Gen Z Millennial audience that are early 20s to 40s are really, really going to, I think,
09:29make a lot of their decision based on whether they think this is cool or not cool.
09:34And I play out the scenario in my head that one of those reusable water bottles had walked in here,
09:39that's now all the rage. I would have thought, absolutely not. A water bottle, it's never going to
09:44make it. There's loads of water bottles. But the reason they did is actually because of something
09:48quite unintentional. They just caught culture. And that sometimes happens. And honestly, it's almost
09:54impossible to do that intentionally. It just happens to brands. And so, when I think about the possibility
10:00that you're going to catch a wave like those companies have, you're going to have to do some
10:04stuff to put yourself in a position to find that kind of luck. I don't see experience between you,
10:09that you have that sort of creative marketing zeitgeist in your DNA and can't see the journey
10:16to that 26 million in five years. So, for that reason, I'm going to say that I'm out.
10:21Okay. Thanks.
10:25So, guys, I'll tell you where I am. I've looked at this and said to myself,
10:32good idea. However, the valuation is something that really, really puts alarm bells to me.
10:39And for that reason, I just wish you guys all the best. But I'm out.
10:43Thanks, Duke.
10:46Guys, for me, it's all right. It's just not like, oh, I've invested in a brody company. You know,
10:56it's just, it's just not sexy. It's not exciting. I think I need that passion to want to get involved.
11:02So, it's not a one for me today and I'm out. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you.
11:10So, you've definitely got something. Had you had a patentable step in there,
11:15I would have been much, much more interested. Because design right protection is...
11:24..not really terribly protected. So, I'm really sorry. Um, but I won't be investing. I'm out.
11:33Thanks, Sarah. Thank you.
11:35Guys, I think it's very easy to look at this and find holes in this.
11:44But the reality is that I think you've invented something that is really clever.
11:50I think this is, it is definitely, it's one of those where, with the right help,
11:55you know, you can see this potentially doing well.
12:00But I think you're going to need a lot of my time and a lot of my team's time
12:04for this to have a chance of success. And that's the bit that I'm weighing up.
12:09That's the struggle that I've got. But I think...
12:15..God, it never rains, but it pours.
12:17LAUGHTER
12:18Um, I'm going to make you an offer.
12:21But my offer does come at a price.
12:25So, my offer is £50,000 for 20%.
12:29OK. OK.
12:31Do you want to go to the wall and have a chat?
12:33Mm.
12:36An offer for Reid and Trib.
12:38But Peter Jones wants considerably more equity
12:41than the 3% they were originally looking to give away.
12:4620% is a lot. Do you think we could do 10%?
12:50Could a counter be on the cards? OK.
12:58Yeah.
13:01Um, Peter, thank you for the offer. We appreciate it.
13:04Um, we feel that the percentage is a bit steep,
13:07and so we'd be willing to counter for 5%.
13:13Guys, look, this is... This is a tough one.
13:17For this to have a chance, you are going to need more money.
13:20That's going to mean dilution. There's no doubt about that.
13:22And on top of that, you're going to have to cover off Deborah's point,
13:26and that is you're going to spend a lot of money on patent lawyers.
13:31And when I say a lot, you could end up spending a million dollars here
13:35just on lawyers. And I get that, and that's OK.
13:39But I think to go on that journey, you're going to need somebody
13:42that's got a lot of experience and the cash, hopefully, to make this successful.
13:50So I think... I genuinely think 20% is fair.
13:53Thanks for the offer, Peter. Yeah, thanks for the offer, but we can't accept.
13:58OK. All right, on that basis, I'm out. Thank you.
14:00Thank you, guys. Thank you. Good luck, then. Thank you. Bye.
14:05The 17% gulf in equity between entrepreneurs and Dragon proves too wide to bridge,
14:12and Reid and Trib must leave the den without a deal. Onwards and upwards. Yeah, yeah.
14:19The brolly business founders having effectively reigned on Peter Jones's parade.
14:25I thought it was a pretty fair offer. Yeah, I thought it was fair.
14:29It was a steep offer, I think, and we believe in the product,
14:32so we're really going to build something great here.
14:48Do you want some water? Yes, please.
14:50Hello, I'm Henry, and I live in Wiltshire. Hi, I'm Alex, and I live in London,
14:55and we are co-founders of our plants and gardens business.
14:59Well, I don't know what it is, but I love it. Look at them flowers.
15:03Have we not seen flowers before? Yes, but look how lovely them ones are.
15:06Yeah, amazing. Come on, they must be making you feel happy.
15:10Good God. Who do you think looks scariest?
15:14I think they all look relatively intimidating. Being able to pitch to the dragons today
15:18really is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Green eye. Oh, my goodness.
15:23We just have to make the most of it, really. I think we're so lucky to be here.
15:27I need to absorb your calm. Don't worry. You'll be fine. You'll be amazing.
15:31I ran through the pitch with my two-year-old, which didn't go particularly well.
15:34He didn't like it, did he? No. He's not going to invest. No.
15:38Alex's toddler may have already declared himself out. Here we go.
15:42But can the duo succeed in winning over an even more demanding audience in the den?
15:51Hello, dragons. I'm Henry. And I'm Alex. And we're seeking £75,000 of investment
15:57in return for a 5% stake in our business. Dig is on a mission to disrupt an £8 billion
16:03a year UK category
16:05by making it easier for you to transform your outdoor space with our instant flower beds and design studio.
16:11Gardening can be enormously rewarding, but actually it's really hard.
16:16And traditionally, you head down to a garden centre, you choose some plants you like the look of,
16:19you plant them up, and the end result can be a bit disappointing.
16:23You can, of course, use a garden designer as well, but that can also be really expensive.
16:27So believing that there was a better way to get that professional garden design look,
16:31but at garden centre prices, we started Dig in 2022.
16:35We were taking inspiration from parallel categories, such as cut flowers and recipe kits,
16:40to prove that it can be as easy for you to create a beautiful garden as it is for you
16:44to do your weekly online shop.
16:46All you do is you head to our website, you choose from one of our stylish garden themes,
16:51you tell us the dimensions of the bed that you want to fill with plants, hit order,
16:54and we deliver all of the plants to your door, fully established, colour coded, ready to go. It's that simple.
17:00So with minimal investment and a really lean business model, we've driven our sales from
17:05a standing start to over £400,000 of revenue in two and a half years of trading.
17:12So we've actually got an example of one of our instant flowerbeds here, which we've half put together,
17:16but we've got all the remaining plants. I wondered if someone wanted to have a go and come up and
17:19plant it for us?
17:20OK, you go and be the gardener, I'll be your sous gardener.
17:24Sous gardener? Well, it's like a sous chef, isn't it?
17:26Yes. An online design and delivery service for those looking to transform their outdoor space
17:34is the proposition from Henry Bartleham and Alex Hollingsworth.
17:39Having a sous gardener, I like the idea of that. There you go, you see.
17:43Great seeing you both do some work for the first time.
17:46Henry and Alex are looking for £75,000 in return for a 5% stake in their plant and garden
17:53business.
17:54I've got to do an IRA with us.
17:56Nice.
17:57She might be happy she's not getting her hands dirty today.
18:01That's how I do my garden. Somebody else does all the work and I take all the glory.
18:06But when it comes to Henry and Alex's business, will Deborah Meaden find brass where there is muck?
18:16So, Henry and Alex, that made gardening really, really easy, probably because Sarah was doing all of the work and
18:25I was just pointing at things.
18:27We were a good team.
18:28We were a good team.
18:30So, what's your background that gives me the confidence that you know not just about garden design but also what
18:38plants can go where?
18:40So, I started life as a strategy consultant and I retrained as a garden designer in 2016.
18:46So, I've been doing it for eight years.
18:48I'm not a professional horticulturist. I've always been a very passionate amateur gardener.
18:53My background actually is more in advertising and marketing. So, when I came up with the concept of what is
18:58now Dig, I knew that we immediately needed someone on the core founding team who really knew what they were
19:04talking about and had that experience and expertise.
19:06So, you're showing us there the plans.
19:09Yes.
19:09But, you know, where do the questions, I guess on a website, where do the questions come up where I
19:14say, well, it's shady, it's dry, I'm on clay, I'm on loamy soil, whatever it is.
19:19Yeah. So, the user experience we've kept sort of hopefully very simple and intuitive.
19:24So, if you go onto our website and considering buying an instant bed, for example, it asks you what theme
19:31you want, it asks you whether it's sun or shade, it asks you if you want kids and pet-friendly
19:35plants,
19:36so we get all of that key information we need to ensure that all the plants we deliver will work
19:41well.
19:41We then have a detailed kind of Q&A section where they can learn more about the soil they have
19:45and then we give all the ongoing tips and guidance as to how you can kind of maintain it.
19:51Great. And in terms of your user experience, so you've turned over 400,000, what does that look like in
19:57terms of customers? How many customers are using you at the moment?
20:01So, total customer numbers are just about 700 right now.
20:04Wow. OK. What are they paying on average for a bed?
20:08So, our average order value is £275.
20:13OK. And so, the average, say it's £275, what will that cost you? So, what are your margins?
20:20Yeah. So, the margins we have on plants is around 50%. We buy them wholesale and we have a small
20:26yard that we keep them in stock and then we have to take into account a certain amount of margin
20:30for the cost of delivery as well.
20:31So, for a £300 bed, £150 on plants and then maybe another £40 is our cost to deliver, just a
20:38very small amount of design time and actually getting the plants to people.
20:41So, £110. 30%-ish margin, slightly higher.
20:44Yes, exactly. But if you...
20:4635% margin.
20:4735%, but you have got some labour in there that you haven't necessarily...
20:50OK. So, a 35% margin. OK.
20:54Henry and Alex, hi.
20:57The last 12 months, what have you turned over the last 12 months?
21:00So, sorry. So, we're halfway through our financial year. So, if I go back a tiny...
21:05Actually, give me the... How are you now halfway through?
21:07So, halfway through the year, we've turned over £108,000 and of that is £38,000 of gross profit and
21:19we're on a net profit of £4,000.
21:23So, it's really tiny, isn't it? It's not sustainable at the moment between the both of you.
21:28I would just say that because of seasonality, we're on track to do about £300,000 this financial year.
21:35So, a lot of our revenue comes in the second half of the year.
21:37And what would that give you? £300,000, your gross margin will be, if you achieve that?
21:42Gross margin should be about 38%, which is about £115,000. 15K net.
21:50Yes. Yeah. I think there lies the issue that shows you the size of the opportunity here.
21:57I think why we believe there is a really significant market opportunity is that there's a whole generation
22:05of millennial gardeners who we don't believe are being served and if we could lock in those customers
22:10as a kind of a lifetime value, then we can... But what are you locking them in with though?
22:14That's the point. Because at the moment, I'm kind of sensing you'd be so much better off
22:19doing what you did before, which was to design gardens for people.
22:23But I'm trying to see how this possibly turned into an investable business.
22:31Henry, Alex, I totally get it. And you articulated it really well.
22:37You want to do what has happened for cut flowers and recipe kits.
22:41You've seen it happen in these other markets and you want to do it for this market.
22:45And I'm sat here thinking, I'm desperate to invest in this business.
22:48Please tell me this is going to be a brilliant business.
22:50This is all going to stack up brilliantly.
22:52And, you know, your numbers aren't quite there.
22:55Yeah. Yeah.
22:56So what is it that stopped you from accelerating faster?
22:59I think our main challenge is reach and awareness, I would say.
23:02When people find us, people get very excited.
23:06The challenge we then have is to persuade them to spend, you know, £275 on average.
23:10So I think there's a marketing element there about increasing our reach
23:14and getting more people to hear about us.
23:16And I think we also need to work harder on persuading people that it's worth the money.
23:21So that might be about pricing. Perhaps we are too expensive.
23:25But I think that's probably one of the reasons why we've seen steady growth,
23:29but nothing significant yet. Yeah, but it's the same thing as arguing
23:34it's more expensive to buy a box from one of the meal delivery
23:39than it is to go to the supermarket. Yeah.
23:40They're doing all the work in coming up with the ideas, curating it,
23:43making it simple and giving you an experience.
23:45Yeah, absolutely.
23:46I think we had the fact that we can buy plants really cheaply
23:50and also we have all of the skills and be able to put together those designs.
23:54That is genuine, genuine value that we deliver to people.
23:58The big difference between your business and the meal prep,
24:01sort of meal kit businesses that we've mentioned, is that I get hungry every day.
24:05Yeah.
24:06But if I planted that, if that was the space that I had,
24:09Yeah.
24:09why would I need you again anytime soon?
24:13Well, partly because very few plants last forever,
24:17and especially if you plant something like lavender, you might replace it in sort of six years.
24:21So I think you said we've had steady growth, but nothing significant.
24:24And I think your model is the reason why, because they might have a great experience,
24:30but they don't necessarily need you for a while.
24:32Yeah, as it stands, I'd agree with that. That is true.
24:35So your growth is probably always going to be pretty steady,
24:38but nothing significant until you find a way to create that sort of recurring returning revenue.
24:45And this big begs the question, how does this business get big soon?
24:50If we can sort of prove that we're a trusted brand, we're an inspiring brand for people who
24:56have got into gardening and have got one product from us.
25:00If we can introduce other sort of work streams alongside that of additional things they might want in their garden,
25:05that's the scale.
25:07Alex Henry, I think that you've got, I think you've got a good business.
25:12And I think, I think you're going to continue to grow this business in a steady way.
25:19But as an investor who's, you know, potentially putting in £75,000 for 5%,
25:25it's really hard to figure out how I would make a return on that £75,000 over the coming years.
25:32It's really hard for me to see that.
25:36So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
25:39Thank you very much.
25:42Henry and Alex, I do like the brand. I think, I think Dig is good.
25:47And I, I actually think you two are very good.
25:50But I'm kind of sensing my money, if I was to invest, my money wouldn't grow the way your plants
25:57grow.
25:58So I'm, I'm really sorry to say that I'm out.
26:03Great, thank you.
26:07Alex and Henry, um, look, you're, you're very credible, both of you.
26:13Now at the moment, when I invest in something, I hope that I can add value.
26:19Yeah.
26:19I can't see where I can add value here.
26:23I'm not a gardener.
26:25It's not a passion of mine.
26:27So for that reason, I'm out.
26:29Thanks, Tika.
26:33Um, I love what you do, but I also think as an investor, if I'm going to put my money
26:39in,
26:40you're high risk and you're not really going for a particularly high return.
26:46So I'm afraid it's not an investment for me, but I really, really wish you all the luck.
26:51OK.
26:52But I'm out.
26:56Guys, I absolutely love the business.
26:58I totally love you two.
27:00And I know that's not normally what we're supposed to do and we're supposed to play it a bit cool
27:04or
27:04whatever, but I'm sure it's written all over my face how much I love this.
27:07There's no point sitting here pretending that I'm going to play it cool.
27:11What's absolutely fascinating me is, I mean, I'm sure you'll know, gardening is massive on shop and telly.
27:18Yes.
27:18I mean, QVC, it is so big for QVC and a huge focus area for them.
27:24Now, they are not your target audience because they're not the millennials.
27:27You know, they are the baby boomers.
27:30However, I actually think if you just tweak the business model a bit, still kept with exactly
27:35what you're doing, but went after the baby boomer market and used the TV shopping channels,
27:39I just think it would be a really natural way for you to go.
27:42And I can see so many ways I can help the business and don't love your valuation at all.
27:51So, I will offer you all of the money, all 75,000.
27:56But I would want to do it at,
28:04I'm going to be really fair and say 15%.
28:08And I think for the value I bring, 15 is really, really reasonable.
28:13Thank you. Thank you so much.
28:14Thank you very, very much.
28:17Do you want to go to the back and discuss it behind your plants?
28:21Henry and Alex have a decision to make,
28:24with Sarah Davies asking for three times the 5% equity originally on offer.
28:31You know I've all spelled, we value the business too high.
28:33I know.
28:37Will the duo attempt to negotiate more favourable terms?
28:44Thank you everyone for that.
28:48Ansara, thank you for your offer.
28:50And actually, we just want to accept it.
28:52Excellent!
28:54That was brilliant.
28:55We know it's a good deal.
28:56We know it's a good deal.
28:57It's amazing though, thank you.
28:57Thank you so much.
28:58It's a blooming good result for Henry and Alex.
29:02Amazing.
29:02Yes, great.
29:03Thank you so much.
29:04Thanks guys.
29:04Well, we're really pleased for you.
29:06Well done.
29:07The green-fingered duo depart the den with £75,000.
29:13And the backing of a dragon with the skills to make their gardening business truly blossom.
29:19We've got money.
29:20Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
29:22Glad they've got investment, Sarah.
29:23I'm really excited about that.
29:25Yeah.
29:25I'm going to teach them to be mini shop and TV experts.
29:29I just absolutely delighted her, Sarah, on board.
29:32She's the perfect dragon for us.
29:33She's got such amazing energy.
29:34And she'll just bring so much to the business.
29:51Hello, I'm Hayley and I'm from London.
29:54I've got four children, a full-time job and I run my own business.
29:57So a busy mind is a happy mind to me.
30:01It's products for...
30:03Babies.
30:04Travelling with babies.
30:06That is a big issue that I have.
30:08What, other people travelling with their babies bothering you?
30:11Yeah, other people, yeah.
30:13Can I invest to help solve this problem?
30:17Hopefully, we have come up with a solution to make the whole idea of travelling that little bit easier.
30:33Hi, Dragons.
30:34I'm Hayley.
30:35I'm a mum of four young children.
30:37I am the founder of Tiny Explorers and I'm here today to ask £50,000 for an investment in my
30:44business, 10% share.
30:47As parents, you amass a huge amount of expensive items.
30:52Some of the most expensive items are the ones that you take for travel only once or twice a year.
30:58Our first family holiday, I endured 10 hours of small limbs kicking me across the flight,
31:04only to land in Florida to realise that they'd taken my buggy at the gate and I wouldn't get it
31:10back until baggage reclaim.
31:12So carrying two small, tired children through an hour-long passport control queue, hoping that my buggy had made it
31:19with us.
31:20Then we realise we get to the car rental place and they've only got one of the two car seats
31:25for the children.
31:27I wondered why someone didn't offer a short-term rental of these items.
31:32In January 2022, Tiny Explorers went live with five cabin-approved strollers.
31:39We now have a product range of just under 100 items.
31:43We have two years of six-figure revenue behind us.
31:46And we're here today to explain our vision that we would love to integrate with travel booking platforms.
31:53So that is our journey and our fun business.
31:58A rental business providing equipment for people travelling with young children is the brainchild of Hayley Hannigan.
32:05She's asking for £50,000 for 10% of her company.
32:11First to explore the concept is Deborah Meaden.
32:18Well done, Hayley. Do you feel relieved now?
32:20Oh, my God, yeah.
32:22All right, just enjoy yourself now. Absolutely.
32:24You've set everything you need to. Brilliant.
32:26Right, so can we just...
32:29So I understand the size of the business and where we are now.
32:32What do you turn over in your first year?
32:36£203,000.
32:37£203,000. And your second year?
32:40£288,000.
32:42OK, so what is a rental, for instance, on that collapsible pushchair?
32:48So RRP is about £450 and we rent it £50 a week.
32:52OK, and what is your main source of business at the moment?
32:56Are you on the website or are you on any of the travel sites at the moment?
33:01What's your main source of business, Drey?
33:03Main source of business, direct customer from our website.
33:06Right.
33:06But actually, the other half of our market is not just parents going out of the UK.
33:12It's parents coming into the UK.
33:14So Christmas time, families coming from abroad to stay with their families,
33:19hire all this equipment.
33:20We actually work with a huge amount of concierges in London hotels.
33:24And they ask for everything from, you know, the travel cots, sterilisers.
33:31Yeah, absolutely everything.
33:35OK, so...
33:38I can see where this could work already in my head.
33:44I think this could work with all the estate agents, shortlets.
33:51So, for instance, people are coming over for a month from America.
33:57The estate agent has already booked them and says to them,
34:02you're going to rent this.
34:04Do you want a cot? Do you want this? Do you want that? Do you want that?
34:06Do you have estate agents?
34:07Not estate agents, no. That's a new area.
34:10But we have a lot of high-end travel companies that come to us.
34:14And we have families coming over for one or two month stays.
34:17And they hire literally everything from us.
34:22Hayley, what's your dream for this business?
34:25Five years' time, we go for a coffee and you say,
34:27oh, it's gone incredibly well. And I say, what happened? What do you say?
34:31I want it to be integrated into booking platforms.
34:35So if I'm going to book my flights to Australia,
34:40I don't want to be asked just for a car rental.
34:42I want to be asked, do you want a travel stroller?
34:45Do you want a travel cot to take with you?
34:47That is my dream to have that.
34:49How big of a deal is that?
34:50Because I am worried that that is not an achievable goal.
34:55It's one thing to do it when it's a car.
34:57When every single person come through there is going to need that car.
35:01And it's like a dozen different cars you could choose from.
35:05It's another thing that you said you've got 100 items and you're just scratching the surface.
35:08That is a really complicated thing to build into a website.
35:11And I just think to change that behaviour, I think that is possibly a step of too much.
35:16You absolutely wouldn't put all of the product catalogue on a market.
35:21You would want to start with probably the two most popular products.
35:24So a car seat and a travel cot.
35:28Can I ask you a question on that point?
35:29You can.
35:29If I was a booking website
35:31and the person indicates that there's two adults and two kids coming,
35:34could it be a dynamic toggle that says, okay, do you need a stroller?
35:37So it's not for everybody.
35:37It's just when they indicate that there's a family coming.
35:40It could be great.
35:41I just think it's going to be so hard to change the behaviour on them websites.
35:48Hayley, you are such a force.
35:51And the world is going to move out of your way.
35:53I can just feel it.
35:54And I was thinking, as you were pitching today,
35:56there's people like you that I absolutely believe
35:58should be pursuing entrepreneurial endeavours like this.
36:01And we should be supporting you in every way that we can.
36:06Oh, here comes the offer.
36:08You're so talented.
36:11The question is about me as being an investor in this business
36:14and supporting this business, which is slightly different.
36:17Because central to why I invest in businesses is because
36:20I'm really personally passionate about solving the problem.
36:23Yeah.
36:24I've experienced it.
36:25I understand it.
36:26My only experience of children is being one.
36:30We haven't had any yet.
36:32So me trying to understand the problems that they face,
36:34again, I'll just be defaulting to Sara over there and her experiences.
36:38So I don't think I'm the perfect investor for this business in this case.
36:41But I wish you the very, very best.
36:43And I'm so excited for you.
36:44And I'm going to say that I'm out.
36:50Hayley, I think it's really good that you've built up a business.
36:54It's a great concept.
36:55I think it will do really, really well.
36:58There's no doubt that people will want to use it.
37:04But I can't see a way that I can find a way to invest in this type of business at
37:08its stage.
37:09But I would encourage you to carry on.
37:11I think it's cracking what you've done.
37:13So I say, well done.
37:14But I'm out.
37:18Hayley, you said, I'm here in the den because I want to find a way to get this built into
37:23the book and website.
37:25Yeah.
37:25So the reason I want to understand is that was the thing that you cited in and I'm coming here
37:30today because that's what I want.
37:31I was trying to ascertain, are you here because you just think you need a dragon because that's one hurdle
37:36you can't get over?
37:37Or is that just one of the many reasons you would want a dragon?
37:40I think there's two reasons.
37:42I think one is expediting the roadmap.
37:45And I think giving that visibility on a booking platform is obviously going to be the end goal for us.
37:50And I think secondly, you know, I feel like I've got the drive, got the passion, got the energy.
37:55I would love a mentor to kind of take me on that journey.
38:00Well, do you know, Hayley, I would love to mentor you.
38:04You are a breath of fresh air.
38:07I'm a firm believer in you are a product of the people you surround yourself with.
38:10And I think my life will be better for having you in it.
38:13I totally get the market.
38:14I totally have been a consumer for this if I'd known this had been around when my kids were little.
38:19I can see so many areas you could take the business.
38:21I can see the journey ahead of you.
38:23And I can see all the pitfalls I've made on that journey, which you could learn from my mistakes.
38:28I would love to make you an offer.
38:31And I'd love to offer you based on what you have asked for, because I think it is a really
38:35fair ask.
38:37So I would offer you all of the 50,000 you've asked for for the 10% you've offered.
38:41Wow, thank you.
38:44It's a brilliant offer.
38:47Hayley, hi.
38:48I think you are brilliant.
38:52The thing I would say, I think you'd have a fantastic partner in, Sarah.
38:59And because she gets it in a way that I can only sit here as an investor and listen to
39:04you.
39:05Yeah.
39:05She is sitting in that chair, feeling it.
39:08Yeah.
39:09So I kind of want you to take the investment from Sarah.
39:15So I'm out.
39:21Hayley.
39:21Hello.
39:23You've got a very good offer.
39:26But is it the right offer?
39:28I mean, is it a mentor you want?
39:31Or is it somebody that can really strategically help you?
39:37That's where I come in.
39:39Because I think you've got two businesses here.
39:43You've got one business, which is a travel business.
39:46You've got a bigger business fitting homes out when people are moving in the short-term lets.
39:51Yeah.
39:51And I've got all those estate agents in central London, whether it's Knight Franks, Savills, Dexters.
39:58Should I go to the list?
39:59All of them I've got a relationship with.
40:03But it comes at a price.
40:07Here comes the vampire.
40:09I'm not going to do it for 10%.
40:10Yeah.
40:12So I will give you £60,000.
40:17I want 20%.
40:20Okay.
40:21So just to clarify, Tuka's offering £60,000.
40:24£60,000 for 20%.
40:26Sarah's offering £50,000 for 10%.
40:2810%, yeah.
40:29But I know what else I can offer you on top.
40:31Okay.
40:34I would love to bring, you know, to have the mentorship from both of you
40:40and to have you both on board.
40:42Would you consider working together?
40:45That would be, yeah, value to the business by having 10% from both of you for £50,000.
40:54So honestly, Hayley?
40:56Yeah.
40:58If you wanted to take the business down the avenue that Tuka talked about.
41:03Yeah.
41:03And moving more away from the kind of core of the business and the model that you're at
41:09to kind of working with the state agents.
41:12I'm not moving more for core.
41:12That reminds.
41:13Moving away from your core to that and I'm not sure that's the business I would look to invest in.
41:21I personally think you have a fantastic business model.
41:25And I think the next stage is just executing that business model.
41:28So personally, I don't think that you need to give away more of the business.
41:34And I don't think that Tuka is bringing anything to the table that this business needs that I can't bring
41:41you in abundance.
41:42And I think it complication matters.
41:44That's rubbish.
41:46Hayley, I'll tell you what I think.
41:49First thing I said, you've got two businesses here.
41:51I didn't say that I was going to change your business.
41:54Yeah.
41:54Right?
41:55Depends how ambitious you are.
41:57If you want to stay where you are, just doing the airports, you don't need me.
42:01Yeah.
42:02I just see this too.
42:04I do see two different sides to this business.
42:08That's why I just would love, as I said, like to have you both on board because I do see
42:12two very different.
42:13Do you really, do you want to take it?
42:15If you really passionately want to take the business down that area,
42:17Tuka has way more contacts than I do in estate agencies.
42:20And essentially, you are offering me the same stake in the business.
42:23So I get an ad, not a takeaway.
42:26I would like to do both.
42:28I would like to do both avenues.
42:29If you want to go that route and you want to do both, then I'd be crazy to say no.
42:34So we would get 25,000 each investment, about 10% of the business each.
42:38So you'd give away 20% in total.
42:40Okay.
42:42Yeah?
42:44Why not?
42:45Why not?
42:47You've got yourself a deal.
42:48Yeah.
42:48Right.
42:50Great.
42:50Thank you, Hayley.
42:52The start of an adventure for Hayley.
42:55We'll make this work.
42:58You'll make this work.
42:59We'll just help you.
43:01The entrepreneur has bagged two dragons who are united in their love for her business,
43:07even if they weren't so in tune with how to make it a success.
43:13Well, that didn't look like a happy start to two investors.
43:16There was a lot of conflict going on there.
43:18I mean, I'm going to have fun managing him and her, aren't I?
43:21That's what I'm talking about.
43:25I know that we've got the most exciting journey ahead of us,
43:27and to have Sara and Tika on board just means the absolute world.
43:31Um, I won't let them down.
43:33I'll really work hard, and I can't wait to get started.
43:48Hi, I'm Del.
43:49I'm from London, but I'm originally from Balaminick, Northern Ireland.
43:54I'm Chris Mad.
43:56I love crisps.
43:57All kinds of crazy flavours, any shape, colour, taste, I'm all over one.
44:04I just got flashbacks of that crisp chocolate that came in the den.
44:08Peter loved that.
44:09Oh, that was nice.
44:10That's for you, with a big bucket.
44:11Are you calling me fat?
44:13No, I'm calling you tall.
44:17Get him a spade.
44:19Good job I love you, isn't it?
44:22Tuka Suleiman is still in Peter Jones's good books,
44:25and Del has a favourite dragon of his own.
44:28I'd like to work with Deborah Meaden, to be honest.
44:32I love her sustainability ethics.
44:35I believe she would be the perfect partner for us.
44:42Hello, dragons.
44:44I'm Del from Spuddo's Crisps,
44:47and we're looking for a £50,000 investment in exchange for 10% equity in the business.
44:55We eat six billion bags of crisps every year in the UK alone.
45:01And most of those bags can't be recycled at home.
45:05They end up in the landfill, the ocean, or being burned.
45:09So, I decided to start Spuddo's.
45:12All our bags and sachets are home compostable.
45:16We have reusable tubs and shakers that can be refilled,
45:19and everything is produced right here in the UK.
45:23Apart from wanting no single-use plastic, I wanted to do something different,
45:29because crisps have actually been the same for about the last 70 years.
45:34I remembered when I was a kid getting salt and shake,
45:37and feeling like I was a chef cooking my own crisps.
45:41Well, meet Spuddo's.
45:43We're unseasoned crisps that you season yourself with our seven incredible flavours of spud dust.
45:50You can add as much or as little to your crisps as your taste buds desire,
45:55and we're also vegan and gluten-free.
45:58We sell direct to consumers through our website.
46:00We do subscription refills, and we sell through zero-waste shops, cafes, offices, and pubs.
46:08Before I answer any questions, you'll find a tub of crisps underneath your chair,
46:13and I'd love it if you would give our crisps a try.
46:17Potato chips with planet-protecting potential, which are intended to be seasoned to taste,
46:23are the offering from entrepreneur and self-confessed crisp addict, Del Curry.
46:27Put some crisps in the bag, choose what flavour you want, sprinkle it over them,
46:32give it a good shake, and away you go.
46:35Del is seeking £50,000.
46:38I'm the chef now. You are.
46:40In return for a 10% share in his snacks.
46:45Fun, isn't it?
46:47The dragons have all shaken.
46:49I quite like the chip and shot curry one.
46:52But will any of them be stirred to part with their cash?
46:59Del.
46:59Yes.
47:00When did you start this business?
47:03About two years ago, but the last 12 months is where we've
47:07kicked into gear really and started selling.
47:09And in the last 12 months, could you give me a view of the sales you've made?
47:13We've done £155,000 in sales.
47:17Gross profit on that was £36,000, with a net loss of £96,000.
47:24Okay, and have you raised investment for this business already?
47:29No, not yet.
47:30But myself and my business partner, we actually own a digital agency,
47:35and through that we innovate and build out new products.
47:39And even though most of the stuff we do is tech-based,
47:44this was a bit of a passion project that rolled out into its own thing.
47:49I'm assuming the agency you run is paying for these losses?
47:53Yes, we paid in to get the whole thing set up and going.
47:57And where have we spent this?
47:58If we just focus on year two this year, this £96,000,
48:01presumably that's been spent on online marketing?
48:04We do about £3,000 a month in online marketing.
48:08So over the year, about £36,000 in marketing.
48:12Okay, and what does the product look like?
48:14What do I buy?
48:15If I go on your website, what can I buy?
48:16Yeah, if you're going on the website, you either choose to get a tub of crisps,
48:21you choose which sachets you want with it,
48:23and you basically send you a kit of tub of crisps,
48:28whatever sachets, whatever flavours you picked for yourself,
48:31and a set of the shake bags.
48:33And then some people just buy the crisps bags themselves,
48:37but some people like to get the tub and then they do the refills.
48:40Is there anything about this business that is defensible?
48:43Not really, to be honest.
48:45At the end of the day, you're, you know, it's crisps and seasoning,
48:49but it's coming up with the whole concept and putting the brand together
48:54and getting all the flavours pulled together and, you know, production in place and so on.
49:02Del, I love it.
49:04I think it's absolutely brilliant.
49:06The business or the product?
49:08Yeah, good point.
49:09The product, for sure.
49:11Yeah.
49:12Because it does remind me of that salt, that little blue bag of salt that we used to have
49:16and put into crisps originally.
49:17Exactly, yeah.
49:19So I think it's fantastic.
49:21So, yeah, really, really good product.
49:23I'm intrigued.
49:24So your agency, what is your business?
49:27We do website and mobile app development, primarily.
49:30We work for a whole range of clients from all over the world,
49:34from music artists like Pearl Jam to building health research study apps for Stanford University.
49:41So if I was to invest today, who's going to run the business if you've got another business to run?
49:47I have the agency, but I've got, you know, project managers and the team that kind of looks after that.
49:53And Spados is a massive, massive passion project for me.
49:58I'm really into it.
49:59I put so much time and energy into it.
50:01I have two people working on it right now.
50:04So that's the other part of the losses is the couple of salaries we have and the whole thing as
50:10well.
50:11But we're going to capitalize all the costs.
50:15If you were to come and join us now, we're starting with a clean slate, basically.
50:19So you're not, we're not inheriting any of those initial costs.
50:23So Del, can we talk about the actual product itself in terms of sustainability now?
50:29How many crisp packets have I saved if I buy one tub of your crisps?
50:34So if you bought the standard 25 gram bags, you're saving 20 crisp packets.
50:39Okay, how many crisp packets are in your plastic bags?
50:44The exact same.
50:45That's the exact same.
50:45No, those are, they're home compostable, as are the little sachets.
50:52Well done.
50:52You got ahead of me there.
50:53That's good.
50:55And have you got any bit of this that you're not happy with in terms of sustainability?
50:59Yeah.
50:59Which bit?
51:00The shakers and the tubs.
51:01The shakers and the tubs.
51:02So the shakers right now, we're in the middle of,
51:05uh, we're just getting printed samples back of, um, paper shakers.
51:10Yeah.
51:10Instead.
51:11And then the tubs, what I'm working on for the tubs is these bags.
51:16We've got them with a Ziploc on the top, still fully compostable.
51:21So my plan is instead of letting people choose the tub up front, the crisp would be in the Ziploc
51:27bag
51:28so they can open and re-close it as much as they want.
51:31Great.
51:33So you're an online business at the moment, right?
51:36Correct.
51:38Could this be a retail product?
51:41Yeah, I mean, that's where I'd like to take things.
51:44That's where, to be honest, the big reason for being here.
51:48The problem you'll have in retail is the size of the box.
51:52Yeah.
51:52Space.
51:53Where I'd like to be taking things is having that kit as like a, a single product that you
51:59can basically walk in a supermarket and you take it away.
52:02I was thinking more where you get kids come along with their parents in, in these shopping malls.
52:08Yes.
52:09And they've got a scoop, you scoop it in.
52:10You see, you go to the end, you put your flavors in and off you go.
52:13Yes.
52:14I think that's really messy.
52:15That's like, that's like a pick and mix.
52:17It is a pick and mix.
52:18Yeah.
52:19I prefer the compostable bag.
52:21Yeah.
52:21That in a supermarket, that's like the extra large variety pack.
52:25Right, yeah.
52:25You get 10 packets of Chris in anyway.
52:27Yes.
52:27I think the big issue is, get rid of, get rid of this.
52:31Getting rid of this.
52:31Well, that's what we're working on.
52:32When you get it to retail, you know, just go, just use the compostable bag.
52:36Yeah.
52:37Inside with the sachets, which are also compostable.
52:39Yeah.
52:39That's your kit.
52:41You know, grab and go.
52:43Yeah.
52:44I absolutely love this.
52:46I'm going to make you an offer.
52:47Okay.
52:48Let's just get on with it.
52:49Okay.
52:50Right.
52:51I think it's absolutely brilliant.
52:53I really do.
52:54And I would also say that I would find it very, very easy, very, very easy to get this into
53:01retail
53:02very quickly.
53:03Okay.
53:06Um, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty excited about it.
53:09You've asked for 50,000 pounds for 10%.
53:12Yeah.
53:13So I'm going to offer you all of the money.
53:15Okay.
53:18And I'm going to do it only for 20%.
53:20Okay.
53:22Wow.
53:23But I will, I will make sure that we'll do all of the work and get that moving very, very
53:27quickly.
53:28Okay.
53:29So that's my offer, 50K for 20%.
53:31Okay.
53:33Do you accept that?
53:34Well, I wouldn't mind hearing what the other dragons have got to say.
53:37Okay, I understand.
53:37I understand.
53:37Del, I'll make you an offer.
53:39Okay.
53:40My offer is for some advice.
53:42I think you should take Peter's offer and I think it should run because it's brilliant.
53:45Because I'm looking at this business and the conundrum in my head is you either continue,
53:51direct to consumer.
53:51Yep.
53:52Or you're going to retail and I'm not quite sure how you make that work.
53:56Yeah.
53:56But that's the only way you can get some scale.
53:58And Peter's just said he does know how to do that.
54:00He does.
54:00I think that's wonderful.
54:01Okay.
54:02So I'm going to say I'm out.
54:03Okay.
54:04But I hope you like my offer because I love your crisps.
54:06Thank you very much.
54:13I think it's fun.
54:15But I tell you what, tomorrow I'm going to buy the bag of crisps that I like and the flavour
54:19that I like.
54:19Yeah.
54:20I'm a creature of habit and frankly, honestly, I don't think I want to be mixing my own packet
54:24of crisps every single day.
54:26Yeah.
54:27So I'm going to say that I'm out, but I wish you the very best.
54:34Del.
54:34Yes.
54:35You're very credible.
54:38But I'm not going to make you an offer because I think I will struggle to go to a big
54:43supermarket
54:44and convince them when space is so valuable that to put all that somewhere.
54:49Yeah.
54:50So for that reason, I'm out.
54:52Okay.
54:52Thank you very much.
54:58So, obviously, I love what you're doing.
55:01And do you know what I really love is the depth at which you're doing it.
55:08This is a business that really, really means it.
55:14So I am going to make you an offer.
55:19I actually think Peter's been quite generous.
55:23Um, so I'm going to make you an offer, but I want 25% of the business.
55:29Okay.
55:32Can I reframe my offer?
55:36However, I'm willing to share.
55:40Just putting it out there.
55:42Okay.
55:46Me too.
55:46Sorry, I was nodding at him.
55:48I probably need to nod at you.
55:50Oh, he left us hanging then, Deborah.
55:53Both of you guys, I'm massive fans of the pair of you,
55:58and Deborah, especially from the sustainability world.
56:03Um, would you do 12 and a half each and 25 grand a piece?
56:10Yeah.
56:10Would you be up for that?
56:11I'd be happy to.
56:12So I think you'd end up with two, you know, two Avengers in the dead.
56:16100%.
56:16Yeah.
56:16World Crusher.
56:18Do you accept that?
56:19I accept the offer.
56:20Yes, please.
56:21Yes, I'm thrilled for you, mate.
56:22Lovely.
56:23Thank you very much, mate.
56:24Appreciate it.
56:25It changed the world of Chris.
56:26Thank you, Deborah.
56:27Brilliant.
56:28Brilliant.
56:28Thank you very much.
56:30Delight for Del, who departs the den with £50,000, and the backing of a duo of dragons,
56:37who could help this eco-conscious entrepreneur make a packet.
56:42I could not be happier.
56:44When it came down to the crunch, Peter and Deborah knew where it was at.
56:49They're fantastic.
56:50You're going to see them all over the retail stores.
56:52I'm glad to hear you.
56:53Hot steak.
56:55Did you feel sick at all?
56:56I did a little bit, but I could end up with all of these.
57:14Next time, the dragons welcome a special guest.
57:18Emma Greedy returns.
57:20I'm so happy to be back.
57:22Imagine every single cell in your body on fire.
57:25I need to purchase this immediately.
57:28It's better if you want a mini or a Ferrari.
57:32Ooh.
57:33It's a good job I like you.
58:01If you like, it looks like it's disposable.
58:02Maybe it, if you want a mini or a Ferrari ride.
58:04There's a