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00:02the doors to the den are open for business a place where fortunes are made and futures are forged
00:11but this time the game has changed a fresh wave of fierce investors are out to shake things up
00:18and steal the deals
00:23tonight i'm suzy ma and i'm the founder and ceo of tropic skincare
00:28having scaled the heights of the beauty world she's now investing in the future welcome to the
00:34den thank you so much for having me it's a pleasure to be here tropic has been one of the
00:39top 100
00:40fastest growing businesses in the uk that's what i'm looking for i started when i was 15 years old
00:46with one product that i sold at a market store to help support my mom how much do you want
00:51this to
00:52work by the age of 17 i was able to put a deposit down on a house for her and
00:57at 21 i paid off her
00:58mortgage so i'm getting emotional here i then went on the apprentice are you listening to me
01:04no i am listening because i'm telling you i know about this business didn't win susan i'm afraid
01:10to say you're fired but got an investment anyway from lord sugar and about three years ago i bought
01:15his shares back to be the 100 percent owner of my company again when i look into the eyes of
01:21the
01:21entrepreneurs i want to see real passion i really like you i'm looking for that entrepreneur with
01:26that seed of an idea that i know i can invest in support to make it something amazing
01:33the pressure is on and the dragons are sharpening their claws
01:47i'm tanika i'm olivia we're sisters and co-founders of cubby
01:52okay cheers we're taking another entrepreneur into the den with us um i'm currently 38 weeks
01:58pregnant and booked in for my c-section next week you're making a bump work for you this is our
02:05money maker i'm really excited to see what susie has to say as a new dragon i think we look
02:12really
02:12good together guys do you know what we're doing navy white navy kind of white navy brown almost like
02:20we phoned each other last night and said she's just had a baby so i think this might be a
02:26good one for
02:27her i try not to go into labra
02:42students have uni days key workers have blue light card and now new parents have cubby
02:49i'm tanika this is my sister olivia and we're the founders of cubby the money-saving platform for new
02:54and expecting parents we're here today to offer you a 10 stake in our company in return for 50 000
03:00pounds we started building cubby when my son was just eight weeks old and i was hyper aware that my
03:07salary was taking regular downward turns while on maternity pay the things i'd usually do to make
03:12myself feel normal like a cup of coffee in my favorite coffee shop or a pair of new jeans to
03:17fit my
03:17changing body were now riddled with guilt i found myself spending hours searching for discount codes
03:23and deals to make my budget structure as far as possible and that's why we built cubby cubby works
03:29in a similar way to other multi-million pound discount platforms offering verified new parents
03:35exclusive discounts across their favorite brands since we launched just over a year ago we've
03:40amassed nearly 20 000 followers on social media almost 12 000 app downloads and have partnered with
03:45over 100 brands our app is free for new parents to use and our business model is based on commission
03:52paid to us by brands when users shop via our app the market opportunity here is huge nearly 700 000
04:00babies are born in the uk each year and we estimate their parents are spending a combined 20 billion
04:06pounds during their year on parental leave we're now ready to scale our business and would love to
04:12partner with the dragon to help us achieve our ambitious goals thank you a fledgling discount app designed
04:22to ease the financial pressure on new parents is the offering from sisters tanika and olivia davson
04:31the entrepreneurs are seeking 50 000 pounds for a 10 percent share of their business
04:38first to dive into the details is peter jones tanika olivia hi um great pitch great great opening pitch
04:51totally get what it is um however it immediately put a ceiling on the opportunity when you said that
04:58it's only available to new parents and you gave me the stats 700 000 per annum yeah why would you
05:05why
05:05you restrict it to that level we decided to target new parents in the beginning because first of all
05:11from a marketing perspective it's really easy to kind of find that niche group and target it to them so
05:17they understand what it is um but this is just the initial phase of our business and we certainly want
05:22to expand to have older parents as their children grow as well so at the moment what's the revenue on
05:31this what does that look like yeah so we we do consider ourselves pre-revenue so the year ahead
05:36is our year one we're looking to generate 20 000 pounds year two um we will generate 160 000 pounds
05:44revenue in revenue revenue yeah and year three um we'll start making a profit so we will generate
05:52600 000 pounds um with a profit of 190 000 and excitingly looking ahead to year five we're looking
06:00to generate 5.5 million 5.5 million pounds um with a net profit of 5 million pounds and i
06:10know that's it
06:11actually for a moment um i think you've got a great idea but you're not capitalized on it i i've
06:21got four or
06:22five baby brands so i know that market very well and in my view um there are loads of baby
06:32brands
06:33children's brands out there who are willing to give discounts coupons discount codes but it's
06:43underutilized in the sense that i think there's an opportunity
06:46for you to specialize in ups let's say age 10 and i think you're limiting yourself just talking about
06:56new parents completely agree i think what we're trying to do now as tanika mentioned this is our
07:03entry into the market and absolutely we're looking to expand to parents of older children but you're
07:15open the barriers up guys you'll be the number one stop shop for discount codes for for baby brands
07:22so our brands on board are much broader than just baby and kids that's such a small element of our
07:28we want to offer discounts across everything so whether it's your takeaway or your jeans for you
07:35or your new computer it's anything complicated well it's a model that works already for student
07:41discount your folk well so what would you respect you're focusing on newborn babies and you're talking
07:47about everything gee you see we're not focusing mom yeah we're not focusing on new babies we're
07:53focusing on that period of time where a new mom has had a baby she's lost who she is she
07:57can't go to
07:58her favorite coffee shop she's feeling feeling guilty about buying a pair of jeans so although we know
08:03we're not solving the problem in its entirety we're sort of lightening the load for new parents
08:08i can completely relate to that like new mums want to know about i don't know a discount off
08:13of a yoga app they can download to help them feel better it's a way it's about well sucks you
08:18in a
08:18little bit and makes you feel more confident there's so much getting your hair done getting your
08:22makeup done you just come out a little massage i love this i love that it's for new mums i
08:31really really
08:31do you've got some very ambitious targets for the next few years which i love tell me how you're going
08:38to be going to 5.5 million in revenue in year five yes in year three we're going to look
08:44to open up our
08:46platform to parents of older children and we estimate about 35 to 45 percent of parents will stay on with
08:52us we're looking to do it at that stage because at that point we feel like we'll have a significant
08:56amount of brands where the value for new parents makes sense for them to want to continue on our
09:02platform amazing tanika olivia um i i really like the the concept and i think you're right to be
09:08focusing on that new parent niche especially at the beginning so if you get the fifty thousand pounds
09:13today yeah what are you planning to spend it on so majority of that will go on marketing so um
09:20we've
09:21seen really good traction on social media instagram specifically so we would like to try and transfer
09:27that that over to tiktok and make you know make use of other social media platforms and then outside
09:33of that we think um we've already started some conversations with the nhs if we could find a way
09:38to get in their leaflet packs and just get in front of new parents at the point in time that
09:42they are
09:43finding out about their baby that would give us the reach that we really need in terms of numbers
09:48okay can i can i ask you no because i've been desperate to get in there can i just ask
09:56because
09:56you both of you you've answered your questions really eloquently and really knowledgeably what
10:01industries are you currently in what's what industry are you in at the moment i work in financial
10:06services financial services and i work in the world's biggest e-commerce platform and i'm in
10:11engineering project management well that starts explaining it um because you know you clearly have a
10:17an in-depth knowledge of you haven't just thought this is a great idea and that and working out how
10:21you do it you clearly know um how to how to do it um this is like a movie this
10:28is this is like a movie
10:30with no script and you have another job and you've got a dream but at the end of the day
10:38back to reality and the reality tells me you're going to need a lot of money i don't think we
10:44will
10:45we know how much money we think we'll need and this is why we focused on a small niche this
10:50this
10:51discounts element of our business has super high profit margins you're fantastic but the reality is
10:59how do we take this from where it is today to a proper business yeah yeah and how do you
11:05take that
11:06leap and and commit yourself full time to this that you have to take the leap we're ready and
11:12we're ready to do that yeah we are doing like the thing is the reason that we haven't grown more
11:17is
11:17because we don't have the time so we both need to focus on this and we are going to and
11:22we're going to
11:22do that so you're both leaving are you leaving your jobs to do this yes yes are you wow that's
11:29massive commitment a massive risk we know that but i think in a year's time if we're still in this
11:36place here because we haven't been able to put the hours in to make it something i will kick myself
11:41but i would i would never want to put anybody in that position if they're going to give up their
11:47job
11:47because they they believe in it and they're struggling at the back end that's not what i
11:51want whether you invest or not we're giving up our job we're going to raise money for this business
11:56and we're going to deliver it so you can either be in it or not and also right now i'm
12:03going to cut
12:04across here because you just made my mind listen you two are really really really good thank you thank you
12:19and so i am going to make you an offer um and i absolutely assure you it's down to you
12:24too
12:26so you've asked for 50 000 pound for 10 of the business i'm going to offer you all of the
12:33money
12:35um and i want 20 of the business your very early stage yes
12:42and tanika and olivia i'm going to follow on straight away because um
12:46you are you are both incredibly incredibly good thank you however this is not sort of what i would
12:54class as my sort of wheelhouse okay so i'm going to say that i'm out
13:03um this is going to take quite a few years
13:08it's not a 12-month project you're not going to wave a magic wand and change it
13:13and for that reason i'm out okay thank you tuka
13:20and i think i've i've sat here trying to figure out whether
13:29whether i want to invest or i just want to be your friend but if 50k is a lot of
13:33money to spend on a
13:34friend so um for that reason i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the very very
13:39best for the
13:39future and i feel so proud of you even though i don't really know you so well done thank you
13:43thank
13:44you
13:48i think you're amazing i really do and you know when i look at what you're trying to do it
13:55reminds
13:55me of how i first started in business and sometimes you do have to put absolutely everything on the
14:01line in order to chase your dreams and i would love to support you in that journey
14:08and in my my good my so i'm getting emotional here my um my expertise is building a community
14:17you know a lot of people think that when you start up a new business the most important thing is
14:21marketing yeah but actually i believe in the power of the word of mouth yes and i've proven that you
14:29know in my business i spend a tiny fraction of our everyday revenue on advertising on social media
14:36on any of that stuff and we have built an incredible community of over 20 000 ambassadors
14:41that are active every single month buying our products and selling our products and we've
14:47literally done that through word of mouth yeah and i think the mummy and new parent community is so
14:52tight knit so tight yeah so that's where i feel i can really help you at
14:59so i am going to make you an offer you asked 50 000 pounds for 10 of your business
15:06i'm going to offer you all of the money
15:10and i'm going to go for the 10 that you've asked for as well thank you susie of course that's
15:16amazing
15:20thank you deborah and thank you susie for your offers um
15:27we would love to accept your offer susie
15:31well done
15:32oh my god can i give you one of the hand
15:33oh my god thank you congratulations victory for olivia and tanika
15:39good luck next week thank you
15:42thank you well done with new mum susie ma in their corner their business has a nurturing start as the
15:49debutante dragon proudly lands her first deal
15:53what happened i don't know i can't even remember yeah it was good and we're really happy to walk away
16:04with susie i don't usually high five a competitor but oh you smashed it you kidding me i was being
16:14a bit
16:14sassy wasn't i yeah it's good don't mess with a pregnant woman unfortunately i won't be celebrating
16:21with a glass of wine tonight i will um
16:39we just need to do a bit of the power what was it this one power stance
16:43i'm louise this is kate and we're the co-founders of craft and crumb whatever happens
16:54cookies yeah you add water or an egg and you make your own cookies so what's new what's the twist
17:01yeah i don't know why you just don't buy a cookie
17:06we're lucky in the fact that we're still able to be friends and run a business together
17:09it makes it more fun doing it with your best friend here we go couldn't really wish to do it
17:15with anyone better
17:27hello dragons i'm louise and i'm kate and we are the founders of craft and crumb we're on a mission
17:33to make home baking more creative more connected and way more fun we're here today looking for
17:40a hundred thousand pounds in exchange for three percent of our business kate and i met when our kids
17:46were little kate was one of those mums who loved baking with her kids and was very good at it
17:52i on the
17:53other hand was not so many parents are looking for creative opportunities and fun things to do with
17:59their kids but often they can find it very overwhelming i just wanted a simple baking kit
18:05one that contained everything that was needed and was well thought through
18:13that's when we realized we didn't just want to improve baking mixes we wanted to create an amazing
18:19experience something that felt exciting creative and tasted delicious and craft and crumb was launched
18:25in 2016 from my kitchen table we started with baking kits and then we went on to launch our bake
18:32kit
18:32party bags as there were so many parents like ourselves who are fed up of our kids coming home
18:37from a party with yet another plastic bag full of tat then lockdown happened and of course baking became
18:45the nation's favorite pastime our business boomed we moved into a fulfillment center and launched into
18:51john lewis ocado and selfridges in the past two weeks we have just launched into 230 tesco stores on
18:58their accelerator scheme which is a major milestone for us thank you very much we'd like to invite two
19:04of you to come decorate a biscuit what about our guest dragon i'd love to as someone who never bakes
19:11so who's going to come and join susie all right i'll do it let's do it steven right i'll do
19:17it
19:19a children's home baking kit with clever crafting added in is the offering from kate horn and louise
19:26nicholson this is my um r a level it's quite nice to have those two quiet for a minute
19:34the entrepreneurs are seeking a hundred thousand pounds deborah i finished
19:43that's amazing i'm never eating that that's going to be framed and that's going on my wall
19:50and that's a happy face because we're all happy to be in the den
19:55in exchange for a three percent share in their business oh wait hang on a second
20:00hang on a second let's see what have you done okay sorry oh you i will never trust you again
20:09cheats we do in fact have a little something for each one of you wow
20:15stephen bartlett may not be playing by the rules
20:19i can't believe you thought i did that even i was shocked
20:26but a more obedient susie ma is ready to get down to business
20:34louise and kate um first of all congratulations thank you what a gorgeous business i love the
20:40branding i love the animals the creativity the fun side of it help me understand about the actual
20:45product itself in terms of the cookie that is made because i'm looking at your ingredients and i'm
20:51seeing flour and caster sugar do you have a range with slightly healthier alternatives like brown flour
20:58whole grain flour so um we we are mums we've got five children we're health conscious we care what
21:05they eat it is definitely important to us we're we're not marketing this as something that we eat
21:11every day it's a creative activity with a treat at the end but what we'd love to do is have
21:17a more
21:17health conscious range we'd have an allergy sensitive range we've got loads of ideas but at this moment
21:22with the resources that we've got uh with you know we're concentrating on this but it's absolutely
21:26something that we would we'd love to do in the future i suppose if i was shopping for this kind
21:31of
21:31product what what is the reason why i would buy your product over your competitors products
21:37so our product we spend a lot of time working out what that creative bake is so you might find
21:42our
21:43competitors are make a cupcake and then put a wafer on it for us you're making leopard print biscuits
21:47you know burger and chips out of cakes we also have obviously the craft activity that's on the inside
21:52of the box and we know that our customers are quite happy to gift our kit just as much as
21:57have
21:57it and use it with their own children because it's premium and it's design looking so your point of
22:02difference isn't necessarily the the final product itself but the experience the fun of it in making
22:08that product okay now 100 000 for three percent you must have knocked it out of the park this must
22:21be
22:21a great business and making lots of money so tell me about that what's last 12 months what have you
22:26turned over what's been your net profit so um last 12 months we turned over 1 million and 65 000
22:33with a net of 66 000. 66 okay and the year before and the year before that we turned over
22:40905 000
22:42with a net of 44. okay and what's the forecast for this year so this year we are forecasting 1
22:49.5 million
22:50and 15 000 for our net 15 000 yeah so you're going to make 15 000 pounds and you're valuing
22:59a business
23:00over three million uh so this is our tough year because this is our big year of scaling up so
23:04this
23:05year we launched into tesco but over the next couple of years we intend to be in three and then
23:09five
23:09supermarkets over the following years so in year two we were looking to take 3.2 million with a net
23:17then
23:17of 200 000 pounds right you've done well haven't you to think you can get a valuation of three million
23:25away well we look to say that we have 10 years we've been going for nearly 10 years is that
23:30how long
23:30it's been going nearly nearly 10 years yeah um louise and kate uh we play a game before you walked
23:40in
23:40which is which we try and guess what it is just from looking at it and we all knew what
23:45it was so
23:45there was a silence actually the silence was because we were trying to figure out what the twist was
23:48what was the innovation here and you walked out and you basically revealed that there isn't really a
23:55twist to this business it's a home baking kit um part of the issue with that is
24:02that alludes to the fact that this is an incredibly competitive market and so i wasn't surprised to
24:06then hear that when we look at your top line revenue growth it's about 10 15 a year so as
24:12an investor
24:12i need to see some a growth profile to indicate to me that there is defensibility here and the idea
24:18there's some kind of innovation here and as i've looked and i've looked and i've looked and susie asked
24:22you a question the the point of innovation is it's more fun now i have to then sit here and
24:28figure
24:28out if i want to if that's a big enough value proposition and a defendable enough value proposition
24:33and one that your competitors also aren't saying when they market their products for this to take off
24:38and i don't think it is so i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the best
24:42thank you
24:46kate and louise um i mean this is this is really difficult but in terms of the you've done really
24:53well to create a product and you've done it from your kitchen and then now you've got a business
24:58you've done really well to get into supermarkets but i think your three million valuation is just
25:03ridiculous there's no question that this business is worth nowhere near that in fact i would question
25:08if it's even getting up to the seven figure level um you are great entrepreneurs and you've done a
25:15brilliant job getting to this point but i don't think it's an investment because i don't think i'm
25:19going to get a return i think you're going to need a lot more dough and on that basis it
25:26can't get an
25:26investment from me today so i'm going to say that i'm out thank you thank you
25:33um so all i can say to you is it's time to review your whole business um do not plan
25:42big expansion
25:43but caution focus and consolidate i wish you all the best but today i'm not going to part
25:52over 100 000 pounds so for that reason i'm out um louise and kate i i really commend you for
26:04what
26:04you've done i mean if you have a look at what you've created in your business you've generated
26:08millions but what concerns me the most is that for a business that has been going for 10 years
26:16you're ending with 15 000 profit and the valuation that you have set is not reflective of of your
26:26actual business because the profit is not there um and so for that reason i'm out thank you
26:37so i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you where i am i um i think this is a business for you
26:44and it's sometimes businesses do take a while to grow it can take some time to do that and then
26:49suddenly you wake up and think oh my goodness we've really got something here which is what
26:53i suspect happened to you it started off as so well let's do it let's make a bit of money
26:57and now you're thinking wow we can do this but i i think it's for you you're smart you you
27:02can do it
27:02you've done it already you're good i think you have a great business but i won't be investing i'm out
27:10thank you thank you very much good luck good luck thank you all for coming in
27:17that's it for kate and louise their hard work earned them admiration from the dragons
27:24but their limited profits proved a hurdle too high for a deal to be made we almost didn't get
27:30investment but the dragons gave us great feedback actually which we will take on board absolutely
27:35delighted with ourselves really interested worthy of patting ourselves on the back i hope they understand
27:39how well they have done yes yeah million pounds i suppose that's the way cookie crumbles isn't it
28:01okay
28:02okay green light go to the left do you want yeah yeah i don't want the water i'm richard this
28:07is erica
28:07we're from combo closet it's gonna be good oh there's this okay we're trying to make off-grid
28:16toilets more convenient everybody poops yeah there's no pouring back now it's okay
28:22port-a-loo port-a-loo yeah i think these are quite versatile though they're not just for camping
28:27everyday use stuck on the m6 oh right in your car could have done with that about three hours ago
28:36i'm so nervous and i'm gonna get a smile everybody poops
28:51hello dragons my name is richard i'm the ceo and co-founder of compocloset hello dragons my name is
28:57erica i am the co-founder and head of marketing at compocloset so often we experience off-grid
29:03toilets as a dirty inconvenient chore compocloset is looking to revolutionize off-grid sanitation
29:09it started in 2020 when i installed a market-leading composting toilet in my camper van
29:14and i found it so much less unpleasant to empty than a regular portable toilet that uses chemicals
29:20however i saw a lot of room for improvement and in 2021 we crowd for the cuddy which was the
29:25portable composting toilet specifically designed for camper vans so cuddy is a composting toilet it uses
29:30a compost process in order to break down your number twos yeah they all use urine diversion to
29:35separate them out and stop the formation of sewage but with cuddy you actually add a carbon-rich material
29:40to it and it starts breaking down that number two our latest product is the s1 sealer it is a
29:46dry flush
29:47toilet and that seals waste in a compostable or recycle or a plastic bag so far the business has been
29:54doing very well and last year's turnover was just over 700 000 pounds we sell primarily direct to
30:00consumer in north america u.s canada and the uk and we have distributors in australia new zealand and
30:05germany we're currently looking for 100 000 pounds for a three percent stake in the business i'll go into a
30:13quick demonstration of each product that's okay not quite a live demo a range of composting toilets
30:23which break down waste without water or chemicals are the proposition from richard peter and erica pew
30:32so this is our first product it's cuddy it's a urine diverting toilet and they work
30:38by separating solids and liquids with a urine diverting seat inside there's a agitator which
30:46makes it self-contained so what you would add is the sawdust or coca-cora at the start and then
30:51you
30:51mix it after each use so you don't make a mess the pair are seeking a hundred thousand pounds
30:57cuddy light has all the same features but we took away the poo mixing so you would pre-bag it
31:02and add
31:03soda stuff to each use in exchange for three percent of their company and lastly we have the s1 sealer
31:11this is a dry flush toilet and it has all the same features however when you press flush
31:19it will kindly seal the waste in a compostable bag the entrepreneurs have already lifted the lids
31:28on their products now it's time for the dragons to lift the lid on their business
31:39richard and erica hi hi absolutely looks fantastic thank you thank you
31:47is it comfortable it's trying just keep your trousers on
32:01you're riding it like i had to i had to reverse in
32:04i feel like we're in a bigger one is that how can you close the curtain
32:09well you've got to get the the thing in haven't you oh yeah oh my god no
32:16am i the only one with that issue i think you probably want to be a bit further back in
32:19the
32:19tent but it's a loo with the view look at it you're good it's quite small yeah it's low uh
32:23it's designed
32:23to go under a bench seat do they come in bigger versions that's what we want that's exactly what
32:28i want to develop next a full-size full-size version okay because if i was to invest i think
32:31i'd need a bigger version if that's all right just for you hi guys i used to know a lot
32:39about
32:40composting toilets because i was looking at putting them down by my stables but i'm when
32:44you're talking sort of bits of that are coming back but i've i've lost the whole picture um so
32:49can you talk about the ip do you have any protection on it the specific ip within cuddy is the
32:56the
32:57extending agitator so typically they would have them on the side and that requires a lot of space whereas
33:02we put ours on the front where you always have to wear access because you've got to sit on it
33:06and it extends that means that it's it's more compact for a campervan it's patent pending we
33:13haven't pushed it to grant um we pushed it to do you want to put the lid down as well
33:17oh thank you
33:19yes mom um we haven't pushed it to grant we've filed it internationally in america australia europe
33:29and the uk okay got it thank you hi guys can i get a confirmation on your
33:36revenue and profit so you said it was 780 was it revenue uh 700 705 yeah 705 yeah revenue and
33:45what's your what's your net profit net profit this last year was 75 000 pounds okay and what are you
33:52forecasting for this for this next year this upcoming year the target for sales for this year is 1.2
33:58million sterling yeah um we're about 415 000 pounds in revenue and what are you forecasting for the end
34:05of the year in terms of profitability um i would expect for the end of the year a 300 000
34:12pound loss
34:14okay so i'm trying to figure out if i invest 100 000 pounds which is a lot of money for
34:17three percent
34:18you know i have to do the math to figure out if i can get a seven figure return on
34:25that investment over
34:26time so you give me give me the big picture vision of how big this business can get and then
34:31just detail
34:31for me how it gets there so with the growth in the business in the next two years we're planning
34:36to
34:37achieve a four million pounds turnover and the profitability there i would expect a profitability
34:44closer to a million pounds so if you have a million pounds of profit and i have three percent of
34:50the
34:50business yeah how much am i going to get paid as a dividend that year nothing we'll reinvest it um
34:56the the real growth for the business isn't just like next year it's we're looking for investors that
35:01are in in this for longer term we want to start with this model on the s1 prove that it
35:07works and
35:08then make a larger model to take on like five percent at least five percent of the rv market so
35:14when do
35:15you think i get my money back in in a multiple is there is there a year i would say
35:21a long time i reckon you'd be talking seven years i guess all of this is contingent on this
35:29being so unique and such a better solution that people will continue to choose this over the
35:34alternative so i have to turn to our portable poop connoisseur deborah mead and i have to how
35:40how different is this in terms of i think my question would be the in the rvs at the moment
35:46the toilets look a lot more like toilets yes so they're full-size toilets that and they are basically
35:52plumbed in their toilets yeah yes so i think there's two issues here one is the consumer behavior
35:58because that doesn't have the same experience but the second one is and having worked in the caravan
36:04industry trying to get them to change the layouts of blinking caravans and oh my goodness it's hard
36:11because their whole manufacturing process is built around putting in normal toilets in plumbed into
36:18tanks i didn't give you a lot of hope there did i so for that reason i'm going to say
36:22that i'm out
36:23okay but um but i wish you the very best i just can't see how um i'll be able to
36:27get return on that
36:28basis so thank you thank you richard and erica uh it sounds like you're very passionate about this subject
36:42but as an investment yeah i'm only taking a three-year view at the moment
36:50not taking a seven year view unfortunately you know because i get offered lots of investments
36:55and i can get a much better return so for that reason i'm out
37:04guys look you clearly know your stuff and i i really commend you for that
37:09unfortunately for me this is not an area that i'm passionate about and
37:12i don't think i'm the right dragon for you guys so for that reason i'm out
37:19richard erica um i think this is absolutely brilliant i think that you both are presented
37:27really really well richard you're nervous and yet you're quirky as a character you'd be amazing both
37:34of you to work with i think you'd be refreshing and i'd like to be given that chance
37:40um so that's why i'm going to make you an offer
37:45if you'd come in here in 12 months time and you had your patent and you had everything teed up
37:50and this was a purely a sort of let's say more advice led investment i think the offer of a
38:00hundred
38:01thousand at three percent would be right but i do think that you're overvaluing at this moment what
38:06you've got and that's why i'm going to make you an offer of all of the money but for 20
38:11percent of the business
38:15jones
38:1920 percent
38:23and i'd also be willing to share that
38:27they wanted three well it doesn't matter what they want i actually i i think that's a fair offer
38:32i tell you what i said i tell you what i like i like what you do but i also
38:37understand the journey
38:38you've got ahead of you what you've got going for you is people are becoming increasingly concerned
38:44particularly people who jump into their rvs and travel around particularly concerned about the
38:50environment um
38:57you better not make an offer after telling me this had no hope
39:02i didn't i answered your questions honestly and i stand by those answers
39:20um do you know what i'm not going to make you an offer because i can't see for me that
39:26it's an
39:26investment that i'm going to get a reasonable return on in a reasonable amount of time so i'm afraid i'm
39:32out thank you thank you very much
39:41um so 20 percent is obviously a big chunk of the business um do you have connections with the
39:48rv industry and those manufacturers or do you have connections of connections no no i wouldn't want
39:52to oversell that i don't have those direct connections um however we do have the ability
39:59to open doors that perhaps were closed previously okay um i think
40:07i think we're going to decline the offer i do appreciate the offer um we believe we'd like to
40:16continue to try and grow it ourselves and um see where the journey takes us good for you
40:22do you know what um i completely respect that uh that decision um so on that basis i have to
40:28say
40:28that i'm out but uh good luck to you hope it all works out thank you thank you thank you
40:38richard and erica must leave the den without a deal
40:48okay the gulf between their ask and peter jones's offer that was fun
40:56proving too wide to bridge i think we would have gone to maybe 10 or something but
41:02i think 20 wasn't what we were expecting as far as giving away the equity 20 wow we wanted a
41:09dragon
41:09but not at that price i had to go in a bit a much higher level than they were offering
41:14honestly peter
41:15but that is the fair offer they have got massive obstacles ahead of them
41:36so we're here this is it i'm thomas this is martin and we're from only cat we got this we
41:43got this
41:46jenks really came up with the idea jinx is my cat she started bringing in lots and lots of mice
41:52and birds in the middle of the night and i had to do something about it this is like got
41:58deborah
41:58meaden written all over it do you have cats deborah i do have cats and dogs and horses and geese
42:04and
42:04cats got a whole zoo at your house i love it i'm feeling both excited and yeah obviously a little
42:13bit a little bit nervous it's a great opportunity to showcase what we've spent the last three and a
42:21half years building let's see if they like it hello dragons my name is martin and i'm tom we're brothers
42:39and the founders of onlycat we've created a smart ai-powered cat flap designed to stop your cats
42:46bringing home prey this is onlycat the built-in ai-enabled camera screens your cats upon entry if
42:55prey is detected the door remains locked we even send video alerts to your phone so you can see the
43:01foiled attempts the feedback from only from the only cat community is phenomenal they say is worth
43:08every penny even at a 450 pound premium price point the pet tech market is booming
43:16and we've already raised over 750 000 pounds in pre-orders and we're here today looking for
43:24200 000 pound investment in return for 4 equity in our business we'd love to do a demo of the
43:31product
43:32to show you how it works great a 21st century take on the cat flap is the offering from martin
43:41and tom
43:42rosinski so over here i have the only cat app installed on my phone so i'm now on the activity
43:49feed so i'm seeing a list of all recent entries and exits both from my cat jinx but also from
43:57friends
43:57and family who have chosen to share their only cat devices with me so i can keep in touch with
44:02their cats
44:04the siblings are seeking 200 000 pounds so as jinx approaches the cat flap scans a face detects that
44:12the cat is coming home alone and the cat can pass through the cat flap in return for four percent
44:20of their business but now tom has attached a fluffy toy mouse to the cat the cat that recognizes what's
44:27happening and the cat was not allowed entry fashion mogul tuukka suleiman might be more familiar with
44:35catwalks than cat flaps but he's first to quiz the pair further
44:42right martin and tom so tell us about each one of you what your background is what your qualifications
44:50are so get an idea absolutely yeah so we're both fascinated by technology my background has always
44:58been electronics and software previously i founded a company called wolf the world's online festival
45:04uh that grew to be a business uh bringing in 10 million dollars of revenue annually my background is
45:11in mechanical engineering as ceo of an engineering consultancy company that does problem solving and
45:17troubleshooting of vibrating machinery so that business we've got a turnover of 4 million so at the
45:25moment um you mentioned that it's not cheap 450 pounds yes it's a premium product
45:34how much does that box cost you to manufacture um we are looking at around 160 pounds
45:47and your route to market is going to be online direct to consumer or is it a wholesale model or
45:54what
45:54so at the moment it is direct to consumer right so give us some numbers so your sales your gross
46:00profit
46:01and your net profit so last year we had 352 000 revenue 155 000 gross and zero net this year
46:11yeah we
46:12are looking at 1.9 million turnover we're now seeing weekly orders in the region of 30 000 and that
46:20has
46:20been growing on an exponential trajectory 30 000 a week correct yes so 1.9 gross profit 847 000
46:29and 300 300 339 000 profit the net can we just look at your um it's i think it's really
46:40i think it's
46:40obviously a really neat price it's not something i would use to be perfectly honest i don't have a
46:44cap flap and i let the cats in and out but i completely get it i think the price is
46:49quite racy what
46:50would a an electronic cat flap that allows me to let cats in and out what would that cost
46:54the most basic cat flap that can let only your cats in um costs around 50 pounds yeah then there
47:02are connected cat flaps which can cost 230 pounds but we have the prey detection and also the camera
47:10okay um so let's talk about ip what have you got so we have a patent that's pending um on
47:18the ai
47:19technology and the prey detection and more fundamentally we believe the training data that's
47:24necessary to train the algorithms isn't easy it's a new entrance on the market okay so i'm i've got to
47:31ask you um you've got experience you've got technical skills why do you want a dragon sure so we want
47:46to
47:46accelerate our manufacturing we want to reach more customers and yeah really amplify the direct to
47:54consumer growth that we've been seeing yeah but as i said you have experience you know how to make stuff
47:59and you had to get it made so my my experience is in a business to business not business to
48:05consumer
48:06that's a very different market but you can manufacture you're an engineer yes but i would say
48:13for me personally what would be of great value is for example big box distribution to create those
48:20distribution networks to take our products that's interesting because you just said it was manufacturing
48:25and it and i'm just trying to get to the you've just changed why manufacturing a consumer product at
48:30scale is very different to manufacturing low quantity bespoke products for advanced engineering
48:36applications which is where the expertise lies okay so we've figured this out as we've got as we
48:42as we've gone along so far and in terms of telling the story this is currently us wearing many hats
48:47putting on a hat thinking let's let's dabble with creating a video for social media but we are not
48:52marketing experts the whole mindset and know-how of tell how to tell that story option optimally on
48:59social media is something we don't have the dragons do so it's it's that you want that so badly that
49:10you're up you've asked for 200 000 pounds for four percent of the business we believe it's a fair
49:16valuation if you look at our financials the 750 000 pounds in pre-orders the trajectory that we're on
49:23to deliver uh millions of revenue in the coming years um and more important that you've actually
49:29got a run rate at the moment or you're at the moment you're selling around 30 000 man a week
49:33so that does underpin some value i'm just i'm just trying to i always have to feel that i understand
49:40the reason somebody is here you're two smart guys it's a it's a really good product um
49:47i find it difficult to comprehend some of the things that you say you're missing because i'm not
49:52entirely convinced you are um and then you overlay that with quite a racy ask and i just i'm going
50:00to
50:00sit quietly and see if i can get those slots to work martin and tom can i ask a few
50:08questions
50:08surrounding the product sure so i wonder if there is a wider wildlife benefits if a cat is denied entry
50:15if it has a rodent in its mouth does it teach the cat to not kill rodents so we we
50:21can't so is there a
50:21benefit but there is some initial data that would suggest that there is i have to challenge that
50:27what's the initial data where from so we've seen a steady reduction in the attempts you've seen i'm
50:33looking for data right so this is field data based on a deployment of 2000 just observation um well sorry
50:40i had to challenge it because that's not initial data it is it is it is data analysis based on
50:45i can
50:46there's an anecdote and then there's the data the anecdote is my cat who is bringing prey in three
50:50or four times uh a night uh after installing only cat after a few months that prey um activity reduced
50:58to effect or they're killing it over there and they're not bringing it in so there will be some
51:02of that they will still continue to eat prey but we have seen a number of cases um from our
51:07customers
51:08where by preventing the cat from being able to bring in the prey uh the prey has then managed to
51:13escape
51:14so while we can't guarantee it it does increase the survival odds of prey if they're not permitted
51:20to come into the house also by sending instant alerts to the owners that the cat has prey has
51:26captured prey and is at the door that allows the owners to act and intervene and to save the prey
51:34guys i really commend you for what you have created i think you're both obviously very very clever
51:40and i definitely see scope for growth for this and i see success in the future for the two of
51:45you
51:46i think for me personally 200 000 pounds for four percent of your business is a big ask and for
51:52that
51:52kind of money i would need to be very passionate about that particular investment and this is just
51:57not an area that i feel passionate so for that reason i'm afraid i'm out but i wish you the
52:02best of
52:02luck for the future thank you thank you very completely understand tom martin yes hi hi i take
52:13my hat off to you for the technology that you have it's well thought through you're both really
52:18investable as individuals but i think you've got a very small opportunity at your price point and your
52:25point of entry very small this is a product that's going to be not only specific to people that
52:32have cats it's also specific to people that have got a lot of money so i'm going to wish you
52:37well on your way and say that i'm not going to invest today and i'm out sure thank you
52:46okay let's let's let's let us begin let's get the party started let's get the party started i'm
52:54ready to watch this time is money and we've got some cat flaps to sell um i think you've both
53:01done
53:01really well and i think you've got something really cool deborah asked you earlier why you're coming to
53:07the den to me it was abundantly clear um i i look at this product and much of the game
53:12here is both
53:12to establish i think brand in market so that any sort of new market entrants are held out by you
53:18being the dominant player having the furthest reaching story um and so it's it's uh it's very
53:24much within my wheelhouse i spent the last 12 15 years of my life understanding how to market products
53:31and from a d2c perspective um so i'm gonna make you an offer
53:39this is going to be a great offer this is going to be a really great offer
53:43no it's going to be a fantastic excited i'm really excited i think i'm excited to hear it
53:48no no no we're at the edge of our seats it's an unbelievable offer you just wait for this one
53:53um drum roll please don't take all day yeah you've asked for 200 000 for four percent
54:04i'm gonna offer you all of the money for
54:1112.5 percent of the business wow yeah thank you very much
54:22look you have got a very good i mean i wouldn't have i mean to me um there's a lot
54:30to do here
54:32because what you need is to create the reality to make this product accessible at the price point
54:39that you're going to knock the competition out because somebody else is going to come along
54:44and make a version of it this at a much lower price i would definitely bring
54:52sauce into the table and i would definitely bring that cost down for you
54:59so look this is my offer if another dragon is willing to join me i would give you half the
55:06money
55:10that's 100 000 pounds for 10 percent thank you
55:18guys so i think it's a great product you guys are clearly very smart and i actually think with some
55:27tweaking of price you can bring yourself closer to the main market then then i think you'd have an
55:33exponential change to um to your market potential size um i don't think stephen's office i think
55:43it's a good offer i don't think it's a crazy good offer we would agree um because i think that
55:49you
55:50know you clearly have shown that you've got traction now you know and it should carry on up so i
55:57am going
55:58to make you an offer but i'm not going to make this easy i'm going to offer you all the
56:08money
56:11and i too want 12 and a half percent of the business
56:17i did say i didn't think i said to you i didn't think your your offer was unreasonable that's what
56:22i
56:34said
56:35so thank you very much for the offers we are leaning towards going with stephen but we came here
56:47thinking that uh 10 is really our upper limit and we wouldn't be able to go beyond that yeah
56:59so 10 is the limit 10 is the limit
57:04then you've got a deal
57:09well done thank you so much well done well done guys thank you so much well done
57:13thank you thank you the cats have got the cream well done guys
57:19martin and tom leave the den with 200 000 pounds let's do this and the backing of a dragon with
57:28the
57:28skill set to supercharge their socials i'm very familiar with a lot of the work that stephen has been
57:34doing working with him is going to be a pleasure well done i told you it was a fantastic offer
57:40debra how
57:41you feel about that well if it was anybody else but you know oh that's so lovely i've never seen
57:48you like this before don't trust me i don't mean it
58:04next time tiny good to see you bro i was shook when i knew you were coming because i knew
58:08you'd
58:08address me you know that was my whole mo forget the investments i was like i need to outdress this
58:13guy being really candid i didn't find it that great that's that's not true peter if your friends
58:18and family's money is already kind of down the hole i'm sure mine will probably end up there as
58:23well i would probably drive you guys crazy no comment no comment i think you're a gift to humanity
58:29i really appreciate it thank you sir
58:30so
58:43so