- 1 week ago
Pakistan cropped PM Modi and several leaders out of an SCO group photo, placing Shehbaz Sharif at the centre. On India First, Gaurav Sawant discusses the social media controversy and the larger takeaways from the SCO Summit.
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00:00Good evening. When you hear the word Pakistan, what's the image that crops up in your mind?
00:08Is it the image of a radical Islamist terror state? Is it a country that's almost synonymous
00:16now with begging? Whether it's the people on the streets of West Asia, even their prime minister,
00:23a country that resorts to fraud, deceit, fudging, cheating, ball tampering, trophy chory.
00:32Imagine their interior minister is known as trophy chory. Cheating is in Pakistan's DNA.
00:40From the cricket field, now to Pakistan prime minister's office. Today, for example,
00:46Pakistan's prime minister, Shabazz Sharif's office put out a photograph, a cropped Shanghai
00:53cooperation organization summit family photograph in perhaps what can be seen as a desperate attempt
00:59to cheat their own people, to show Pakistan's prime minister at the center of this meeting.
01:07So what did they do? They cropped out world leaders, including prime minister Narendra Modi of India
01:15and Iran's president Masood Pezashkian, among others. Internally, in Pakistan, Shabazz Sharif is known as
01:25Form 47 prime minister. Not one who's won elections, but is there at the mercy and the benevolence
01:34of the Pakistani deep state and Pakistan army. He's also therefore known as boot polish in Pakistan.
01:41Ever willing to shine shoes of the Pakistani military leadership.
01:46But today, there are two images that stand out. And what a study in contrast.
01:53One is this fraudulent attempt that we just spoke of of Pakistan's prime minister,
01:58Shabazz Sharif's office, trying to show him at the center of that group photo,
02:03cropping out prime minister Narendra Modi and Iranian president Masood Pezashkian,
02:06among others, and the second video that's going viral across the world and is being talked about extensively.
02:12Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin together with prime minister Narendra Modi
02:18and the three leaders from Russia, China and India shaking hands warmly.
02:23The video is quite similar to the photograph taken exactly one year ago at Tianjin in China,
02:31where the three leaders were photographed together, prompting US President Donald Trump then to say words to the effect,
02:39looks like we've lost India and Russia to deepest, darkest China.
02:45May they have a long and prosperous future together, unquote.
02:48But watch that image on your television screen.
02:52Three powerful world leaders, Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Russian President Vladimir Putin
02:56and the Chinese President Xi Jinping meeting here at Bishkek and they're also likely to meet again in New Delhi
03:05for the BRICS summit.
03:07As the Indian economy surges on the world stage, India is making its mark.
03:15India is emphatically making it stand very clear, from zero tolerance to cross-border terrorism,
03:20to very strong economic partnerships.
03:23Pakistan continues to wail, Pakistan continues to beg, money and even water.
03:31So after the Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror attack at Pehelgham,
03:36India made one thing very clear.
03:39Indus Waters Treaty is being held in abeyance because blood and water cannot flow together.
03:45Now Pakistan feels the bridge.
03:48And Pakistan is breast-beating.
03:51It's gone to the International Code of Arbitration.
03:53India, of course, does not accept the jurisdiction.
03:56Pakistan is saying, oh, please give us water.
03:59Please do not politicize water.
04:01But it's not politicizing water.
04:02It's imposing costs, finally, on a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror.
04:09Finally.
04:10Remember, Pakistan has bled India for decades.
04:12From the 1993 Mumbai Serial Blast, remember, 257 people were massacred by Pakistan.
04:20ISI-sponsored terror attack in 1993, Mumbai Serial Blast.
04:24257 killed, over 1,000 injured that time.
04:292006, trained serial blasts in Mumbai.
04:31200 killed, over 800 injured.
04:342611 Mumbai terror attacks.
04:36166 killed.
04:38And Pakistan didn't stop.
04:39They've attacked our business centers, centers of economy, centers of our cultural significance,
04:46our temples, our malls, our markets.
04:49Pakistan, for decades, bled India.
04:52Terror was a low-cost option for Pakistan to bleed India.
04:56Not anymore.
04:57Not anymore.
04:58Because now, India is imposing costs on Pakistan.
05:02From Palakot to Operation Sindhur and holding Indus Waters Treaty in abeyance.
05:08But first, on top of India first, let me take you through 10 big messages from Prime Minister Narendra Modi
05:17at the SCO Summit at Vishket.
05:21Prime Minister Narendra Modi's first big message to the world.
05:25And this is a very important grouping.
05:27Whether it's SCO or BRICS, very powerful grouping.
05:31What's that message?
05:32Three pillars of SCO.
05:34Security, connectivity and opportunity.
05:36The Prime Minister wants the grouping to now move beyond just vision.
05:41Let it be more than just Jojo, more than talk shop.
05:45Now deliver.
05:46Deliver outcomes.
05:48And they should be measured.
05:50Measurable outcomes.
05:51His second message was on cross-border terrorism.
05:54Zero tolerance for terror.
05:56Pakistan's Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif was sitting right there.
05:59Prime Minister called for this entire terror ecosystem to be dismantled.
06:05From terror financing to recruitment to radicalization and safe havens.
06:10His third message was even more direct.
06:13Terrorism cannot be treated as a strategic asset.
06:16Remember, people like Hafiz Mohammed Said or that maulana of terror Masood Azhar.
06:23These are Pakistan's strategic assets to be used against India at will.
06:28Except now, they're not safe in their own homes.
06:33I wonder why.
06:34Unknown gunmen have been neutralizing at least 30 terrorists in Pakistan.
06:40The message against state-sponsored terrorism was clear and significant.
06:44Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif of Pakistan was in that room.
06:49And Prime Minister Narendra Modi delivered this message on zero safe havens for terror.
06:54Prime Minister Narendra Modi's fourth message, and this is very, very significant, was on Afghanistan.
07:02The Prime Minister called for continued development and humanitarian assistance to the Afghan people.
07:09This Central Asian grouping, SCO, is very important.
07:13Afghanistan's people must be helped, the Prime Minister said.
07:16His fifth message was on conflicts across the world.
07:20The Prime Minister said dialogue and diplomacy must be the way forward.
07:24Particularly when conflicts threaten energy security, maritime trade and global supply chains.
07:30The sixth message was on the menace of drugs.
07:35Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seeking greater coordination and cooperation among Shanghai cooperation organization countries against drug trafficking, organized crime
07:45and other security threats.
07:51Again, do keep in mind, when it comes to regional connectivity and in this region, Pakistan is that big hindrance.
07:57Look at India wanting to trade with Afghanistan or Afghanistan wanting to trade with India.
08:02Pakistan just doesn't permit.
08:03And that is why the Chabahar port becomes extremely significant and the Zaranj-Delaram highway.
08:08The Prime Minister called for reliable and inclusive connectivity.
08:12More importantly, respect sovereignty and territorial integrity of every country.
08:17And this is where that message, even if indirectly, when you talk of connectivity,
08:24if China wants to talk about China-Pakistan economic corridor, it's a violation of India's sovereignty because Pakistan occupied Jammu
08:31and Kashmir,
08:32including Pakistan-occupied Gilgit and Baltistan, their Indian territory in illegal occupation by Pakistan.
08:41Message number eight was about making trade easier, simplifying customs, expanding digital documentation and making logistics networks even more efficient.
08:51Prime Minister Narendra Modi's ninth message was putting people first, people at the heart of SEO,
08:58creating tangible opportunities for youth, for entrepreneurs, for farmers, for ordinary citizens.
09:04And the tenth message, ladies and gentlemen, was about bringing SEO countries even closer through greater youth-to-youth interaction,
09:13scientific interaction, entrepreneurs working together, and of course, between India and SEO nations.
09:21Equally significant civilizational exchanges.
09:26I want to bring in our guests on this broadcast as we take this story forward.
09:31Arzu Kazmi is a journalist who joins us from Pakistan.
09:34Sushant Sareen is a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation.
09:37Sandeep Unnithan is a senior journalist.
09:39And Sushant Sareen, I first want to talk about the Prime Minister's message on cross-border terrorism and on Afghanistan.
09:45Now, he's spoken of cross-border terrorism, even in the past and virtually every platform, but Afghanistan.
09:53How significant is the region must help the people of Afghanistan?
10:01Look, at one level, a lot of what the Prime Minister said, you know, a lot of it he has
10:07said in the past on these very same forums.
10:11So, I think it's an old policy of ours that he's been plugging, old messages that he's been plugging, and
10:20that we are not backing down from any of those things, whether it's on connectivity, whether it's on a range
10:26of other issues which you've just listed out.
10:28But I think on Afghanistan, it's extremely important because it has been an effort of the Pakistanis to isolate the
10:35Afghans.
10:36They have actually created enormous difficulties for the Afghans, tried to create starvation in Afghanistan by stopping supplies of food
10:46and other materials.
10:47The same Pakistanis who say, please don't weaponize water, have weaponized trade, have weaponized food supplies, have weaponized all kinds
10:56of things.
10:57They have thrown out millions of Afghans back into Afghanistan, many of them, you know, in a country where they're
11:07not even welcome anymore.
11:09Many of them who have never even seen that country, they were born and brought up in Pakistan.
11:14So, I think when he talks about Afghanistan and he wants that people should reach out to the people of
11:21Afghanistan who are suffering and have faced wars for five decades now, it's a very important push he's making.
11:30At the same time, I think it's a way of putting the Pakistanis in their place and saying that, you
11:37know, you don't decide what happens in Afghanistan.
11:39There are other countries who are going to bat for the Afghans because they need the support of other countries.
11:46Now, there is a tiff between Afghanistan and Pakistan and we don't have any part to play in that.
11:51But because of that tiff, if millions of Afghans are going to go hungry, if their developmental stresses are going
11:58to be stunted, I think somebody needs to speak out for them and, you know, enhance the people-to-people
12:05relationship that we are trying to build with the Afghans, which we have always, you know, invested a lot in,
12:12whether it's in hospitals, whether it's in infrastructure, whether it's a range of…
12:16So, I think that is the plan.
12:46One, Afghanistan by Prime Minister Narendra Modi at SCO.
12:50Well, absolutely, Gaurav.
12:52And, you know, Pakistan has always considered Afghanistan as its strategic backyard and it's made all these statements about strategic
12:59depth, that it needs Afghanistan for strategic depth from India.
13:03Well, you saw that during Operation Sindur last year where you had for the first time two hostile countries on
13:09Pakistan's borders, India on Pakistan's east and Afghanistan on the west.
13:15And this was something that Pakistan couldn't get away from and that has been one of the biggest turnarounds of
13:22the last five years, Gaurav.
13:23It's been one of our biggest foreign policy successes, if you can call it that, that five years back you
13:28had the DG of the ISI standing in a hotel in Kabul sipping tea and saying that, you know, all
13:34is well and virtually announcing Pakistan's takeover of Afghanistan.
13:39But as history has shown, the Afghans are nobody's slaves and they seem to have an independent mind.
13:47And today you have Prime Minister Modi linking Afghanistan's security to that of stability in Eurasia.
13:55The fact is that Afghanistan has always been a battleground, it's been a proxy battleground for either superpowers or regional
14:02powers like Pakistan.
14:03He's indicating the fact that the problems of Afghanistan are not the problems of Afghanistan alone.
14:10They are the problems of...
14:11That's a very important point you're making and, you know, we'll circle back on that, Sushant Sareen, because China would
14:17also be hearing this very, very closely.
14:19China's very apprehensive about the East Turkistan movement in Afghanistan.
14:25But let me bring in Arzu Kazmi for a moment.
14:28Arzu, Afghanistan, Pakistan used to look at it as its strategic depth for decades.
14:35Suddenly, it's a strategic nightmare for Pakistan now.
14:41I think I'm 100% agree with Sushant Sareen as he said that Pakistan's policy is wrong.
14:48They sent Afghanistan from Afghanistan to Afghanistan to Afghanistan because they used to not Afghanistan and they should keep it
14:55here.
15:08So again, the problem is that we
15:25Afghanistan के साथ काम करना चाते हैं आफगान सिटिजन्स की हेल्प करना चाते हैं या टेरिजम के ओपर बात किये
15:30इवन तो पाकिस्तान और इंडिया मिल कर जो है जब तक बैट कर डालॉग नहीं करेंगे टेरिजम के ओपर वाटर
15:37के ओपर या आप सौ साल भी अगर ये शो करते रहें
15:42का कोई भी हल नहीं निकलेगा कुछ भी सॉलीशन आपके सामने नहीं आएगा और हम इसी तरीके से बात करते
15:49रहेंगे तो तोड़ा सा डिफरेंट एंगल गर्मेंट्स को लेना चाहिए और बैटके बात करें और टेरिजम के ओपर भी आप
15:55लोग डिमांड करें कि लाइए �
15:57कि दिया में आफिस साही दीजे मसूद अधर दीजे अगर आपको चाहिए आप बात करें और इसी तरीके से पाकिस्तान
16:02जो हो वो वाटर के ओपर बात करें तब ही कुछ होगा अधर्वाइस यह सिच्वेशन ऐसी ही रहेगी
16:09पिछले 30 साल से हम लोग बात कर रहे आर्जू जी 30 साल से
16:13Sushant Sarin आपको बताएंगे कि 1993 में जब मुंबाई में सीरिल बं धमाके हुए थे
16:18I want to take you back to 1993 मुंबाई सीरिल ब्लास
16:21These are not intelligence-based inputs but court verdict Sushant Sarin
16:27that Daoud Ibrahim Kaskar, Tiger, Memon, that entire ISI terror ecosystem
16:33they used to go to Dubai and from Dubai travel to Pakistan, learn how to make IDs
16:38IDs supplied by Pakistan, there is evidence of involvement of Pakistan army officers
16:42in 1993, now we are in 2026 and Pakistan hasn't lifted a little finger to crack down on terror
16:52I think holding the Indus Waters Treaty in Abhans was perhaps one of the biggest masters
17:03strokes along with Operation Sindhur and Balakot airstrikes and you know Article 370
17:09by Prime Minister Narendra Modi to put Pakistan in its place
17:13Gaurav I think the Indus Waters Treaty was in a sense the last straw
17:20because we had gone through the paces
17:22I don't disagree with what Arzu is saying in principle
17:26but the practicality of it you know you have said 93 I will take you back to the 80s
17:32when 10s of the people killed in Punjab because the Pakistanis were sponsoring Khalistani terrorists
17:39and they are so shameless that they say that you know it finally stopped
17:43because somebody in Pakistan gave the list to India
17:47which means that you had the list of all those people who are operating in your own country
17:52right
17:53which is utter nonsense
17:54we stopped terrorism in Punjab
17:58you know because of people like APS Gill and the valiant role which
18:04valiant fight that the Punjab police put up against these terrorists
18:07otherwise it was no thanks to Pakistan that it stopped
18:10and if I may very briefly on the intelligence front
18:14on the current NSA Ajit Doval and his KC the Kirti Chakra
18:18came out of a very difficult operation undertaken then
18:22but that's a story for another time
18:23but as an aside but Sushant please go on
18:25yeah so you know it's not as though we haven't spoken to the Pakistanis
18:30we even went to the extent under Dr. Manmohan Singh's government
18:33of forming a joint anti-terror mechanism
18:36right
18:36what happened when we gave them information
18:39they went and told the terrorists that the Indians know where you are
18:43so you scoot from here
18:44and we'll pretend we are ignorant about your whereabouts
18:48so if you play these kind of double games
18:50then how do you expect anybody to trust you
18:53you know this kind of too clever by a half tactics
18:56work up once maybe twice
18:58but they don't work indefinitely
19:00and they don't work for all times to come
19:01so you know when the Pakistanis say let's sit and talk
19:05I don't see how talking is going to serve any purpose
19:08because every time we've talked we've got stabbed in the back
19:12so that is out of the window now
19:13the other part is where I don't agree with you on one thing
19:18you know when she says about the Pakistanis were getting money from international aid agencies
19:23so they were able to keep them
19:26not a penny of that money ever reached the Afghans
19:29all that money went into the pocket of the Pakistani officialdom
19:33right
19:33they expropriated all that money
19:37so it was not as though that money which was coming
19:39was going into the welfare of the Afghan refugees
19:42the Afghan refugees were actually living of their own
19:46you know of their own hard work
19:49and the labor which they were putting in
19:52the industriousness that they were showing
19:53it was no thanks to the Pakistani state
19:56yes
19:56so let me bring in Arzu once again
19:58let me bring in Arzu once again
19:59and Sandeep before I move on to that other big story here on India today
20:04Arzu
20:05when we talk about Pakistan
20:06so many times Pakistan has been killed in the country in the country
20:10that with Pakistan India has started the joint working mechanism on terrorism
20:14also started the other side of the country
20:16and many times Pakistan has tried to deal with his efforts
20:20so it was the first party
20:21they were going to be on this
20:22that it was going to be a 4 point agenda
20:24that we will have a 4 point agenda
20:25that we will have a demilitarize
20:26and we will have the former leaders
20:28of the party
20:28it was so many times Pakistan has been killed in the country
20:32so we don't have to talk about it
20:34if we don't have to talk about it
20:35we will talk about it
20:36then we will talk about it
20:37if you will talk about it
20:40that we will talk about it
20:46foreign
21:17in Canada, David Colvin-Hitley was sitting in Pakistan in America.
21:21You were closed and you were saying that no one didn't say that.
21:25The world is saying that.
21:27What did Madeleine Albright say?
21:29What did Madeleine Albright say?
21:31It was an international terror migraine.
21:34It was the US Secretary of State.
21:36It was not the US.
21:37It was not the RSS.
21:39But the people who are talking here
21:42who say they say that
21:43quite the same thing,
21:44it's clearly not the same.
21:45We have to say that it's definitely
21:47that if we ask people to ask them
21:51to do definitely say that
21:52you will definitely say that
21:52you will have to say that
21:55but the thing to do with this
21:58is the authorities
21:59that they have to say
22:00that they don't know.
22:02They are not the allegations.
22:06They are not the allegations.
22:08They are not the allegations.
22:10The unknown gunman
22:10But I want to bring in Sandeep Unnithan
22:14Into this conversation
22:15Sandeep that's the reason
22:17There is no point giving dossiers to Pakistan
22:20No point having joint mechanism
22:22No point calling non-descript non-entities
22:24Man of peace in Pakistan
22:26Because they are all worthless
22:28Powerless people
22:29The only people who matter
22:30Are Pakistan deep state and ISI
22:33Who will continue to bleed India
22:34So you might as well bleed them harder
22:36Well absolutely Gaurav
22:38You know like I agree with
22:40What Sushant said
22:41Everything that we had to try
22:42We have tried
22:43We have tried giving dossiers
22:44We have tried joint mechanisms
22:46To the point that
22:48You know the irony of ironies
22:50Is that when the 26-11 attacks
22:52Were going on
22:54November 26, 2008
22:56There was an entire counter-terrorism mechanism
22:58Headed by the Home Secretary of India
23:00Who was sitting there
23:01And you have
23:02Home Ministry officials like RBS Mani
23:05Who believe that this was part of the
23:07Deep State's plan
23:08To get them over there
23:09So there would be no response
23:10When a terror strike of the nature of 26-11
23:12Took place in Mumbai
23:14You know it is as duplicitous as that
23:17That you're you know on the one hand
23:19You've been doing this
23:22Joint mechanisms and dossiers
23:23And on the other hand
23:24You're you know encouraging terror
23:25And it's not just us Gaurav
23:27If you see all the reports that came out
23:30During the 2001-2021 period
23:34When the US was fighting the Taliban
23:36They said that you know the Taliban
23:37Is being sheltered by the Pakistan army
23:40And you know they're running with the hares
23:41Hunting with the hounds
23:42So this is something that
23:43The Pak military does
23:46Has been doing since 1947
23:47So Osama bin Laden is found in Abbottabad
23:50Absolutely
23:51Osama bin Laden is not a farmer
23:54He's not you know he's a terrorist
24:01You know lying, deceit, fraud, everything
24:10That's Pakistan's DNA
24:11Interior minister is a trophy chore
24:13Prime minister crops photographs
24:15Or at least his office does
24:16I want you to look at those images
24:19Two sets of images for a moment
24:21Prime minister Narendra Modi
24:22Chinese president Xi Jinping
24:24And Russian president Vladimir Putin
24:25Together shaking hands, smiling
24:27Exchanging words
24:29Watch that image
24:30It's actually going viral across the world
24:32At one point the three leaders
24:34You know they were informally holding hands
24:37Talking to each other
24:39You know pictures for the camera
24:42Now I want you to take a look at another picture
24:45Pakistan's prime minister
24:47Shahbaz Sharif
24:48Also there
24:49On the sidelines
24:51Many say sidelined
24:52As you see one set of pictures
24:55Shahbaz Sharif
24:57Cut a rather sorry picture
24:58Standing in one corner
25:00He actually
25:01You know rushed to strike a conversation
25:03With Russian president
25:04Vladimir Putin
25:05But then what did Pakistan's
25:07Prime minister's office do
25:09They resorted to fakery
25:11So they took the image
25:12That you see on your television screen
25:14The full family photo
25:15All the world leaders together
25:17Pakistan's prime minister in one corner
25:19But then
25:20They cropped that image
25:22Watch the two images
25:23And watch the cropped image
25:25The image below
25:27Is the one that was posted
25:28By Pakistan prime minister's office
25:30Same photograph
25:32Conveniently cropped
25:34Prime minister Narendra Modi
25:35Disappears from the frame
25:37Iranian president Masood Pazishkan
25:39Disappears from the frame
25:41And suddenly
25:42You see Shahbaz Sharif
25:44At the center
25:45Of that frame
25:46And the Chinese president
25:48In one corner
25:49Of that frame
25:50Then came the U-turn
25:52There was criticism
25:53This fakery was called out
25:56Now
25:56What was this
25:59Juvenilistan
25:59That's another word
26:00For Pakistan
26:01It was known as
26:02Terroristan
26:03Now it's
26:03Juvenilistan
26:05Pakistan's prime minister
26:06Shahbaz Sharif
26:06Then subsequently
26:07Posted another image
26:08From the same photo op
26:09And this time
26:10That complete picture
26:11Everyone
26:12In the frame
26:13But the question is
26:14Why would they resort
26:15To this fakery
26:16Arzu
26:17It was
26:18Why did the acting
26:19Pakistan's prime minister
26:20Office
26:20Why did the office
26:24Why did it do this
26:26You
26:26Why did that
26:30I said to
26:32You
26:32What does it do
26:33This
26:33Why did it
26:33Why did it
26:33I don't know
26:34That
26:34Why did it
26:34Why did it
26:35Why did it
26:36You
26:37If you said that
26:38Keep it
26:39You know
26:39If you
26:40As
27:00So Pakistan was known as Terroristan, Sushant Sareen would it be okay now to call them Juvenilistan
27:08because this is rather a juvenile attempt to show that Form 47 Prime Minister and Arzu will tell us more
27:15about what Form 47 Prime Minister and boot polish means.
27:19But why would they, are they cheating their own people, Sushant?
27:25Of course they are.
27:26But look, this is what happens when you think that, you know, this kind of perception management, image building is
27:34the be all and end all of, you know,
27:36your entire foreign policy, your entire strategic policy, that despite the fact that you have aided 10-10 hours of
27:44load shedding in Pakistan,
27:46despite the fact that there are reports in Pakistani media that people are going hungry,
27:51despite the fact that joblessness is increasing, despite the fact that the economy is not growing,
27:57you want to project that you are the center of the universe.
28:00And this particular photograph, which was cropped, and I suspect that the man who probably was responsible for it,
28:07is their information minister, that monkey-faced character, who does monkey, you know,
28:12Atav La Tarar.
28:14Yeah, that Tarar character.
28:16He does these kind of stupid things.
28:18You know, when he was first appointed the information minister, there was a clip of his,
28:23that Shabazz Sharif or somebody had gone on a visit.
28:25And this guy with a phone camera was running around like a television journalist trying to click Shabazz Sharif and
28:33trying to make himself useful.
28:35So, he's that kind of a clown.
28:36And I suspect that he did this because when you look at the photograph, which they initially released,
28:42it shows that Shabazz Sharif is in the center of that everything.
28:46Everybody else is on his side.
28:48He occupies center stage.
28:50Now, clearly, you know, everybody knows that's nonsense.
28:53Even in something like SCO, even for that matter, the new alliance which they have striking with Saudi Arabia.
29:01Everybody knows who wears the pants and who has the money in that, right?
29:05It's not the Pakistanis.
29:06It's the Turks maybe and largely the Saudis, right?
29:11But they will try and project themselves that we are in the center of the universe.
29:14So, this is that kind of juvenile behavior which they indulge in.
29:18And then somebody probably the penny dropped that, listen, what the hell are you doing?
29:22You're becoming a laughing stock.
29:24And then they kind of fix the particular thing.
29:27But I suppose…
29:28So, Sandeep, if Shabazz Sharif was actually important, you know, he wouldn't need to resort to these juvenile tactics.
29:35You know, and perhaps he wouldn't even be going around with a begging bowl the way he does.
29:40This just shows.
29:41Of course, Pakistan is to take over the presidency of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
29:46But for that, they'll have to do serious work.
29:48Perhaps they'll even beg for money to be able to conduct it in Pakistan next year, to host it in
29:53Pakistan next year.
29:55Well, you know, Gaurav, you have to give it to Shabazz Sharif.
29:59This is one of those rare occasions when he's gone abroad without his minder in tow, right?
30:03So, his handler wasn't around.
30:07So, I think he saw this as his moment in the sun and they possibly tried to cut, crop the
30:12picture and show him at the center of the universe.
30:15But, you know, the thing is that this is a pattern that we've begun to see after Operation Sindhuur when
30:20Pakistan really believes, at least the establishment believes, that they've managed this enormous international victory.
30:27And now they've raised their overseas profile.
30:30Everybody is quoting them.
30:32Everybody wants to speak to them.
30:33Everyone wants to do business with them.
30:36And this is the kind of thing that they are trying to project home, to the home audience.
30:41Now, the domestic situation, we know, Sushant has just mentioned what the reality is.
30:45So, this is Pakistan trying to take that external profile and try and do damage control back home.
30:53You know, the state of the economy, there's insurgencies, all of that is going on.
30:56But this is one of those attempts to try and show that, look, we are still at the center of
31:00things.
31:01You know, everybody wants us.
31:02Everybody wants to talk to us.
31:04We are indispensable for the rest of the world.
31:06So, that is the kind of narrative that they've been building over the last year or so, Gaurav.
31:10Sir, let me bring in Arzu once again.
31:11Arzu, it doesn't feel bad in Pakistan that if you talk about the passport, it's the fourth weakest passport in
31:19the world.
31:19Your economy is in tatters.
31:23Pakistan is literally falling apart.
31:26Begging seems to have become a national vocation.
31:29I mean, if Pakistanis go to Saudi Arabia, they're begging.
31:33West Asian countries say, don't come here, don't beg.
31:35And people are sent back.
31:37The Prime Minister goes begging.
31:38Pakistan is almost called, I think, Kashgolistan.
31:43Of course, it doesn't feel bad.
31:44Because of course, it doesn't feel bad.
31:45For everyone, I have no respect to passport.
31:49There will be no visa to support.
31:51Now, Saudi Arabia and UAE have been a visa for the target.
31:54Definitely, it will be bad.
31:56We're going to be unfortunately.
31:58But unfortunately, those who run the country or the country,
32:00who have the power, they don't have the power.
32:03At least, if the government is also the way to possibly,
32:06because if it needs to go to London, or Canada, or Canada, or from there,
32:08So, it doesn't matter what the situation is going on.
32:13This is a great thing you said.
32:15It's a real thing.
32:15Sushant Sarin, look at Pakistan's passport.
32:18It was the fourth weakest or the third worst in the world.
32:21Economy is tanking.
32:23Begging bowl is almost like Pakistan's national symbol.
32:27Even internally in Pakistan, the country is mocked.
32:31The leaders are mocked.
32:32They say Pakistan has become Kashgolistan.
32:35Kashgol incidentally is begging bowl.
32:38In Persian.
32:39Now taken even in Urdu.
32:41Sushant.
32:42So, Gaurav, you know, in the earlier segment of your show, we were talking about Pakistan.
32:48That, you know, Arzu was saying that there are many Pakistanis who think that only India accuses Pakistan of terrorism.
32:54Nobody else.
32:55One of the reasons why Pakistanis passport holders, you know, have to stand in long queues.
33:02Have to go through secondary kind of checks.
33:05You know, their passport is scanned left, right and center multiple times.
33:10One of the reasons is that everybody suspects them of terrorism and being involved in criminal activity and transnational crime.
33:17So, that is one of the reasons why.
33:20So, for the Pakistanis to claim that nobody else thinks the way we think about them, that's utter nonsense.
33:28Everybody thinks they are like that.
33:30Secondly, look, why will a passport's importance not go down when you have your aircraft crew going to Canada or
33:40Britain or somewhere else and then disappearing and applying for asylum?
33:43When you have PIA staffers smuggling drugs in the PIA flights, when you have your people who go for Commonwealth
33:53Games, throw everything and then disappear in the country and never return home because, you know, they've got to take
33:59it out of Pakistan.
34:01They've managed to do what everybody says.
34:03They've managed to do what everybody says.
34:04Pakistan mein zindabaad nahi hai hai. Pakistan zindabaad nahi hai. Pakistan se zinda bhaag hai.
34:08That if you can run away from Pakistan alive, then you are safe. Otherwise, you are dead.
34:12So, when you have a situation like that, how do you think, what kind of respect will people around the
34:18world have for your passport?
34:19So, if the passport is from the bottom, it's after maybe Somalia or countries like that, you know, which are
34:27literally failed states.
34:28If your passport is out there, right down there, then obviously there are reasons for that.
34:34And some of those reasons are that, you know, people are trying to run away from that country. People have
34:39lost faith in the country and confidence in the country.
34:42Its longevity, its ability to provide for them. Even the elite, as Ardu very correctly says, even the elite don't
34:50invest in Pakistan.
34:52They invest, now Dubai probably is shutting down for them, but they'll find some other place.
34:58Parts of Africa. Parts of Africa. That's why they are now sinking their money. And parts of Eastern Europe. But
35:06I'll tell you more about that on another day.
35:08Stay with me for a moment. Now I'm coming to my favourite part on this show.
35:12So, Prime Minister Narendra Modi used the SEO platform to send out this very strong message.
35:17A message that the world is listening to. A world free of terror, have scientific temper, cooperate with each other,
35:27innovate, people to people, contact.
35:29What was Pakistan doing? Crying, crying, desperately wailing, raising, raking up the Indus Waters Treaty issue.
35:37So, India put the Indus Waters Treaty in abeyance. It's being held in abeyance after the Pehlgaam terror attack.
35:43Because the Prime Minister made it very clear, blood and water cannot flow together. Pakistan has to choose.
35:48You want Indus Waters? One, the treaty has to be renegotiated and there are reasons for it.
35:53Two, you have to stop terror. Yesterday, India categorically rejected a ruling by the Hague-based Court of Arbitration.
36:02We don't even accept it. The tribunal had claimed that Indus Waters Treaty remains legally binding and sought to place
36:08restrictions on India's work on some hydroelectric projects.
36:11It's the ratlip, for example. But India has rejected it. Now, this is the power of the world's largest economy,
36:20which is fastest growing, you know, fastest growing large economy.
36:25Because we have the financial heft to tell the world where to stop and where our rate prevails.
36:35India says this Court of Arbitration was illegally constituted and that it has never recognized the tribunal or participated in
36:42any of its proceedings.
36:43The government has also made it clear that the tribunal has no jurisdiction whatsoever over a sovereign decision taken by
36:50an elected government in India.
36:51And neither this ruling or any future ruling will have any impact on India's projects.
36:56So what did Shahbaz Sharif do? He cried. He internationalized the water dispute.
37:01The Pakistani Prime Minister claimed water cannot be used as a weapon or a political leverage.
37:07This is not a political leverage.
37:09India had reached out to Pakistan even before Pahalgam and said a treaty that was inked in 1960.
37:16There are many changes that have happened, whether it's ecology, whether it's climate change, whether it's change in demography.
37:25And we need to renegotiate that treaty. Pakistan chose to ignore it.
37:30Now, Pakistan's response, instead of addressing India's concerns on cross-border terrorism, was once again play this water card.
37:39Listen in to Shahbaz Sharif. I'll get you more on this stuff.
37:46Ladies and gentlemen, South Asia, a significant part of the SCO, cannot realize its full potential without lasting peace.
37:58Excellencies, water is the lifeblood of our region. It sustains millions of lives, nourishes our lands, and secures the very
38:10future of our coming generations.
38:13It must never be weaponized. It cannot be used as an instrument of coercion, nor can it ever be exploited
38:22for political leverage.
38:25The treaties governing our shared waters are solemn binding international commitments.
38:32They are not matters of political conveniences to be cast aside at your will.
38:39They must be honored unconditionally in both letter and spirit.
38:47Now, ever since Indus Waters Treaty was held in abeyance, let me tell you what India has been.
38:53For decades, large quantity of glacier water from Ladakh would just flow downstream into the Indus River, eventually into Pakistan
39:03and then into the Arabian Sea.
39:06Pakistan does not have infrastructure to utilize this water. It still doesn't.
39:10So, all this crying by Shabazz Sharif is only for show.
39:13But now, with Indus Waters Treaty held in abeyance, what is India doing?
39:18There is a renewed focus on how India can best utilize the water and the resources for Indian people, for
39:27our people.
39:28And let me get to the story from Ladakh. It's a fascinating example.
39:33And let me tell you what's changed.
39:34So, near Leh in Ladakh, there is Stoke Kangri Glacier.
39:39Water melting from this glacier, it flows through the Stoke Nala, eventually into the Indus River.
39:46It drains into the Indus River and then flows into Pakistan.
39:49For years, this water was simply flowing away, untapped.
39:54Right next to this water was actually an irrigation canal, which was specifically built to supply water to villages and
40:03for agricultural land in Ladakh, but never utilized.
40:06Not effectively. So, it's not that there wasn't enough water in the canal. Farmers in Ladakh have faced acute water
40:14shortage.
40:15Water had to be distributed among villages by turn. Large stretches of land that could be cultivated, it remained dry.
40:22What did the administration do?
40:24With the treaty held in abeyance, they found a remarkable and a very simple solution.
40:30Instead of permitting all that water from Stoke Nala to flow into the Indus, it was diverted into this Igufe
40:39Canal.
40:40And now, what is the amount of water that we're talking about?
40:44The Stoke Nala, according to reports from Ladakh, carries roughly 90 million litres of glacier water every single day.
40:5890 million litres of glacier water every single day was just flowing out of India into Pakistan.
41:05Now, it is being utilized.
41:06The Ladakh administration created two diversions to a channel and a large part of that flow towards Igu and Fay.
41:15Remarkably, officials say this didn't require expensive new dams or massive infrastructure projects to be filled.
41:22The Lefnan governor, other top administration officials, they visited Ground Zero, took a JCB machine, did some little changes that
41:31were required.
41:32Just two trenches, two trenches were created using a JCB machine.
41:37It permitted the excess glacier water, instead of just flowing out of our country into the Indus River, it was
41:44channelized and taken into the existing canal system.
41:48Look at the difference this made.
41:51The amount of water flowing through the Igufe Canal is now expected to increase from about 50 Qsecs to 80
41:58Qsecs.
41:59Twelve villages that earlier had to wait for their turn are now expected to get water every day.
42:05More than 1,000 acres of parched land will get better irrigation.
42:09Why couldn't this be done earlier?
42:12There was lack of will earlier.
42:14Now there is a strong will.
42:17Ma, is this a one-off project?
42:20Clearly no.
42:21The Ladakh administration has already identified four more streams where similar diversions can be created.
42:29They're being studied and will be created is what we've been told.
42:33Simply put, water that was flowing unused into the Indus and then downstream to Pakistan and into the Arabian Sea
42:41because Pakistan does not have the necessary infrastructure is now being harnessed locally.
42:47Sandeep, this is extremely important.
42:51The will, the desire and then going ahead and doing it.
42:56It's remarkable, isn't it Sandeep?
42:59Absolutely, Gaurav.
43:00You know, and this is things like, like you pointed out, this is things that should have been done decades
43:04ago.
43:05You know, one, it boggles the mind to realize that all of this was going on for decades.
43:10We didn't build the kind of storage capacities that would even, you know, allow us to take our share of
43:16the Indus Water Treaty.
43:18You know, Gaurav, we've been through this before.
43:20We know that the IWT is one of the most unequal water treaties anywhere on the planet.
43:25There is no water sharing treaty which gives 80% of the water to the lower riparian state and 20
43:31% to the upper upstream state.
43:34And in our case, we have not even, you know, taken our share of that 20%.
43:39And what you've just mentioned is just part of all of that building up the infrastructure to claim our rightful
43:44share of the Indus Water Treaty, Gaurav.
43:48Absolutely.
43:49So you need to have the will, and you need to be able to deliver.
43:52But Sandeep, is this the first time, and you and I have been covering this from the 1990s,
43:59whether we covered the 1993 blast case verdict, or we covered the Kargil War, or a series of terror attacks
44:06including 2611,
44:08is this the first time that in a series of steps, costs are being imposed on a state sponsor of
44:16radical Islamist terror.
44:17The land surgical strikes after Uri, the Balakot airstrikes, Article 370, 5th of August 2019.
44:25And subsequently, you had two more important steps.
44:29One, Operation Sindur.
44:31Two, Indus Water Treaty being held in abeyance.
44:34It's almost now going for Pakistan's jugular.
44:38Absolutely, Gaurav.
44:38You know, Gaurav, that half-hour rampage by the Indian Air Force on the 10th of May,
44:44which completely shook Pakistan and scattered the Air Force, destroyed their air bases,
44:49you can say that the kind of damage that was caused on Pakistan's military infrastructure,
44:54that was the bill that they had to pay for supporting the terror infrastructure.
44:59That happened in a matter of, you know, a couple of minutes.
45:02Now, the other big cost is the questions that are going to be asked because of the Indus Water Treaty
45:08being held in abeyance.
45:09The fact is that the lens is now shifted on to Pakistan's mismanagement of the Indus Water Treaty, Gaurav.
45:16I mean, they have had the most bountiful share of the river waters.
45:20They have not built reservoir capacity.
45:23They have one of the poorest water storage anywhere on the planet, Gaurav.
45:27They have something like 30 to 90 days of water storage capacity as opposed to a desired storage capacity of
45:35300 days.
45:37And even the Mangala Dam that they built was built with our money.
45:40The canal that they built has been built with Indian money.
45:44I mean, despite that, they were spreading terror in our country.
45:47Now that costs are being imposed on Pakistan, there is little that Pakistan can do.
45:51And, you know, one more important aspect that I want to discuss very briefly, the last 30 seconds I have
45:55on this part of the show.
45:57For decades, Sandeep, the entire onus was on India.
46:01That, oh, Pakistanis are coming. We need to talk to Pakistan. We need to talk to Pakistan.
46:05And all conversation is about our Kashmir.
46:08Entire Kashmir is ours.
46:09But now, the entire onus is, if any conversation with Pakistan, it will be on retaking Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
46:17So that game has so strategically shifted post-2014.
46:21And that message is also clear.
46:23That no longer is Pakistan putting us on the back foot.
46:28Pakistan is on the back foot.
46:30Absolutely, Gaurav.
46:31And, you know, the whole game has now shifted westward.
46:34It's gone into Pakistan.
46:35And, you know, given the kind of economic troubles that they are in, POJK is in flames.
46:42Balochistan, we know what's going on there.
46:43Khaibar Pakhtunkhwa is spinning out of control.
46:46Every part of Pakistan but for Pakistan's Punjab province is up in arms.
46:51You know, the economy is in shambles.
46:54All they have is these symbolic photo opportunities that they, you know, get with Trump.
47:00With, at the SCO, all of this.
47:03Can it pay the bills, Gaurav?
47:04That's the big question that we should be asking now.
47:07And you've taken the pleasure out of their photo cropping also.
47:10I mean, that's also no longer with Pakistan.
47:12Mecca agreement is also in doldrums.
47:14Trump is also no longer meeting them because Pakistan over-promised and under-delivered.
47:19So, you know, clearly no Acche Din for Pakistan.
47:22And that's a story we'll be tracking very closely.
47:23Sandeep, for the moment, many thanks for joining me.
47:25Also, I want to thank Arzu Kazmi and Sushant Sareen.
47:28Big verdict in Punjab ahead of the 2027 assembly elections.
47:33BJP's student wing, the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad has won the Punjab University student elections,
47:40retaining the president's post for the second consecutive year.
47:44Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad's Ankit Bidhan polled over 3,100 votes,
47:49defeating the Aam Adni party-backed Adil Brar by about 500 votes.
47:55The Congress-backed NSUI candidate finished third.
47:58But here's what makes this campus contest politically interesting.
48:02The ABVP victory comes after a last-minute support from the Students Organization of India,
48:07the student wing of this Shiromani Akali.
48:12I quickly want to cut across to Ankit Bidhan,
48:17the ABVP candidate who's won the Punjab University student's poll as president of the Punjab University.
48:23Ankit, welcome.
48:24You told me that you won the victory.
48:26Ankit, what's your victory?
48:30Who gives this victory?
48:31Who gives this victory?
48:33How did your victory happen in Punjab University?
48:37This is not my victory.
48:40This is the whole Gen Z.
48:41I give my victory to Gen Z.
48:44And Gen Z has proved that in the heart of Gen Z,
48:47ABVP and Mohdiji.
48:50Very interesting.
48:51You said this victory belongs to Gen Z.
48:53And Dave back to you.
48:55Ankit, if we talk about it,
48:58If we talk about Gen Z,
48:59the Gen Z was hit by the way,
49:01which is the way he has pushed us to go.
49:04The paper leak was a great deal.
49:08Why do you think Gen Z has supported us?
49:13How did you support us?
49:15How did you support us?
49:17If you say that our mandate was made,
49:20what we have done in a position?
49:20when you say that you are aware of the people,
49:22what we have done in the heart of Gen Z,
49:24what we have done in the heart of Gen Z's,
49:29what we have done in the heart of Gen Z.
49:30And how did you support us?
49:32How did you know that Gen Z?
49:37What's your thoughts?
49:39So,
49:40You're going to ask yourself.
49:44If you don't know what to do with this, what do you think about it?
49:49What does it mean to you?
49:52The last minute alliance with the student wing of the Shiro Mani Akali Dal.
49:56Do you think this is a test bed for further unity?
50:04If we talk about paper league,
51:06This is the test bed. Will they come together?
51:36This is the test bed.
52:07This is the test bed.
52:10This is the test bed.
52:16This is the test bed.
52:19This is the test bed.
52:21This is the test bed.
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