00:00Okay, let's go across now to Pawan Khera, Rajya Sabha MP and the head of the Congress's media cell.
00:06Good to also have you, Pawan Khera, on the show.
00:09Sudhanshu Trivedi just saying that the arguments that the Congress is making for the removal of Gyanesh Kumar simply don't
00:15hold water,
00:16that all of this is a sign of frustration and desperation of the Congress.
00:19It can't defeat Narendra Modi.
00:21How do you respond that he's saying Rahul Gandhi just doesn't get it?
00:27First of all, why is Sudhanshu Trivedi, who is the BJP spokesperson, coming to the defense of Gyanesh Kumar Gupta?
00:36That's our first question.
00:37Number two, right for the last two years, Rahul Gandhi and our other leaders have been talking,
00:45giving evidence from Mahadevpura, from Maharashtra, from Haryana, from different parts of the country,
00:50evidence of wrongdoing by the Election Commission under the patronage protection of the Election Commission of India.
00:57Well, some of you believed us, some of you didn't believe us.
00:59Now, from within the Election Commission, some things have come out.
01:05These things have come out because of the media.
01:07The media has brought it out, not the Congress Party.
01:10So now let the Election Commission respond.
01:12Where is Gyanesh Kumar Gupta, who had the audacity, as a bureaucrat, had the audacity to challenge the opposition,
01:22asking him to give some evidence or apologize to the country within 48 hours when Rahul Ji did his press
01:27conference.
01:28Now, 23rd September, the expose came out, Rajdeep.
01:32We are still waiting.
01:33Where on earth is Gyanesh Kumar Gupta?
01:38You know, Pawan Khera Ji, the fact is, can you, on the basis of a newspaper report at this stage,
01:44which the BJP says does not even have direct, attributed comments, ask for the resignation of Gyanesh Kumar.
01:51The fact that there are differences in the Election Commission,
01:54the fact that two Election Commissioners deferred on certain issues,
01:57the press release of the Election Commission says,
01:59all decisions were passed unanimously.
02:02They have reiterated that today, including on SIR.
02:04In the circumstances, therefore, the BJP and the government says,
02:09what is the, why should Gyanesh Kumar resign?
02:11Differences are okay, but the decisions were unanimous.
02:16Well, one after the other, not just one newspaper report, which is the Indian Express,
02:22it's the Reporters Collective, it's Hindustan Times,
02:25the VIP listing of voters in Delhi,
02:29half of Delhi deleted from voters list,
02:3213 crore people deleted from India,
02:34from across the country.
02:37Every day, something or the other is coming out against him.
02:41And the guy refuses to even acknowledge.
02:45What came out in the Indian Express is not just that two people deferred,
02:50but there are several anomalies,
02:53which are happening under the watch
02:56of Gyanesh Kumar Gupta.
02:59Answers will not come.
03:01We don't need any answers.
03:02The country is done with answers.
03:04No, we need a resignation.
03:06We need this man who is supposed to be the watchdog of
03:09the electoral process in this country,
03:12is absolutely compromised.
03:14You are saying we need the resignation.
03:17But is this demand for resignation, Mr. Khera,
03:19simply trying to set the narrative somewhere
03:21that India's elections are not free and fair?
03:23Is this about creating this perception?
03:26Because, you know, you've asked for resignations in the past
03:29of various officials in the Modi government.
03:30But in most cases, no one has stepped down.
03:32So, is this actually about getting Gyanesh Kumar to resign?
03:35Do you really believe if Gyanesh Kumar goes out tomorrow,
03:38suddenly the elections of India will be free and fair?
03:40Is it all at the doorstep of one individual?
03:44No, there will be fear in the institutions,
03:48in the people who occupy these institutions,
03:50that they are not supposed to just be his master's voice.
03:53They have to do their job and do it honestly.
03:57When Dharmin Pradhan had to go,
03:58after Rahul Gandhi sat on a dharna at the Prime Minister's house,
04:02after the CJP sat on a dharna at Jantar Mantar,
04:05people have to go.
04:07And Gyanesh Kumar Gupta is just the beginning.
04:09It is the puppeteers who are being attacked,
04:13who are being questioned,
04:14who are being called out.
04:16Gyanesh Kumar Gupta is just,
04:18he's just a pawn.
04:20And Rajdeep,
04:24in Chandni Chowk,
04:26in a particular booth,
04:27there's just one voter left,
04:29everybody else eliminated.
04:30There are,
04:31in the election results we have seen,
04:34there are booth after booth,
04:35there are examples,
04:36of people getting one vote,
04:40two votes,
04:41whereas their entire family lives there.
04:43So,
04:43we know what's happening.
04:45Rahul Gandhi has been talking about it
04:47for the last two years.
04:48None of you believed it.
04:49Now,
04:51it's a,
04:51I told you so moment again for Rahul Gandhi.
04:54I mean,
04:54he gets these moments every,
04:55every three,
04:57four months.
04:58You know,
04:58you're saying it's a told you so moment of Rahul Gandhi,
05:01but Pawan Kheda,
05:01the truth of the matter also is,
05:03as the BJP is now putting it,
05:05they claim,
05:06anti-incumbency is not against Mr. Modi.
05:08The fact is,
05:09it's against the Congress,
05:10which is why,
05:11and they're giving examples,
05:12Congress never returns to power in several states,
05:14across a long period of time.
05:16And they are giving those hard facts,
05:18whether it's in Uttar Pradesh,
05:20whether it is other states,
05:22West Bengal,
05:23for example,
05:23the Congress hasn't come back to power for years.
05:25Are you saying,
05:26therefore,
05:26on the basis,
05:27what basis are you saying that,
05:28the anti-incumbency is against Mr. Modi,
05:31and because,
05:32that anti-incumbency is not being witnessed,
05:34the election commission is compromised.
05:36They are saying that's an insult to the voters of the country,
05:39who they claim,
05:40are voting for Narendra Modi.
05:44I'll get,
05:45I'll take all these arguments,
05:46at face value for a minute.
05:48Tell me,
05:49why was the law,
05:50of appointing the election commissioner changed?
05:53Why did the parliament,
05:55throwing 141 MPs out,
05:57pass that law,
05:58of giving lifelong immunity to the CEC?
06:01Why?
06:02If everything is hunky-dory,
06:04and Narendra Modi is so popular,
06:05why do you need all these laws?
06:07Why do you need to block SSR,
06:09to block the Gen Z voters?
06:11Why do you need this kind of NSIR?
06:13Why do you need all central forces,
06:17occupying West Bengal,
06:18six months before the elections?
06:20Narendra Modi is popular,
06:21why are you all having to do it?
06:24You know?
06:25So,
06:26we are also talking hard facts,
06:28Radhik.
06:28The fact that the law was changed,
06:31the fact that the CJI was removed,
06:32the fact that lifelong immunity was given,
06:36are hard facts.
06:38You can't question these facts also.
06:41You know,
06:42Mr. Khera,
06:43I want to understand therefore,
06:45has the,
06:46you know,
06:47you are,
06:48you are saying,
06:49the puppeteers are the ones behind,
06:52Gyanesh Kumar.
06:53Presumably,
06:53your reference,
06:54you didn't name them,
06:54is to people in the,
06:55Narendra Modi government.
06:57Yesterday,
06:58Rahul Gandhi seemed to refer to,
06:59Amit Shah Ji,
07:00for example,
07:01as a benefactor of Gyanesh Kumar.
07:03Now,
07:03there are those who will say,
07:05that when the Congress,
07:06was in power,
07:06there were chief election commissioners,
07:08close to the Congress.
07:09They specifically,
07:10name,
07:11for example,
07:11Naveen Chawla,
07:12as someone close to the Gandhi family,
07:14who became chief election commissioner.
07:16They are saying,
07:17puppeteers running the election commission,
07:19using Amit Shah's photograph,
07:21as if to suggest,
07:22there is a jugal bandhi,
07:23between Amit Shah and Gyanesh Kumar.
07:25This is all,
07:26based on your,
07:27attempt to create,
07:29a perception,
07:30a narrative.
07:34People were close to us.
07:35Obviously,
07:36we have been in power for so long.
07:37We have been in government for so long.
07:39Bureaucrats will get close,
07:40to some leader or the other.
07:41That's okay.
07:41That happens.
07:42But,
07:43did you ever see,
07:45Congress party,
07:46protect,
07:48the chief election commissioner,
07:50through the act of parliament,
07:51giving him lifelong immunity?
07:53Did you ever see,
07:54Congress party,
07:55diluting the norms,
07:57and trying to,
07:58appoint people?
07:58Did you ever see,
08:00Congress party,
08:00removing the,
08:01norm of,
08:02preserving the CCTV footage,
08:04in the election booth,
08:05in the voting booths?
08:07Everything has been done.
08:08Why?
08:09So don't compare,
08:10what happened during Congress party,
08:12and not what's happening now.
08:13In any case,
08:14two wrongs don't make a right.
08:15What we did was not wrong.
08:16Well,
08:17show us one wrongdoing.
08:18Show us one wrongdoing.
08:20Where the people were out on the streets,
08:21where all of you were doing stories,
08:23against the election process,
08:24where the sanctity of voters list,
08:26was completely lost.
08:27Show me one example.
08:29And then,
08:29let's talk hard facts,
08:30since you love that word.
08:32Is the opposition united though,
08:35Mr. Khera on this?
08:36Because you've got a situation,
08:37when an impeachment motion,
08:38was moved in February this year,
08:40by the TMC,
08:41against Gyanesh Kumar in parliament,
08:43the Congress did not fully back it.
08:44When there was a vote chori yatra,
08:46that Rahul Gandhi took up,
08:48last year,
08:49opposition parties like the TMC,
08:50didn't stand by you.
08:51I want to understand now,
08:53is the opposition fully behind,
08:54impeaching,
08:55or forcing,
08:56Gyanesh Kumar to go,
08:57or is this still a Congress-led,
08:59Rahul Gandhi-led personal agitation?
09:04It's, Razdeep,
09:05the entire country,
09:06the citizens are realizing,
09:07that something is absolutely amiss,
09:10in the election process.
09:12When the citizens,
09:13get that realization,
09:15political parties,
09:16can't be so isolated,
09:17completely alienated,
09:18from what the people,
09:19of India think.
09:21We absolutely,
09:22are convinced,
09:23that all right-minded people,
09:27outside India,
09:28and some of them inside India,
09:29I welcome what Chirag Paswan,
09:31had to say today,
09:33will stand by this.
09:34They will stand by the people of India.
09:36That's the faith that I have,
09:37in our political parties.
09:39My final question then to you,
09:41Mr. Keda,
09:42does the Congress party,
09:43support at least the cleaning,
09:44of electoral rolls or not?
09:46Do you want the electoral rolls,
09:47of this country to be cleaned up?
09:48The BJP says,
09:50and the election commission says,
09:51SIR is part of the process,
09:52of cleaning up electoral rolls,
09:54to ensure only genuine voters,
09:55vote in the country.
10:00Mr. Modi may like to believe,
10:01that whatever he does,
10:02has happened for the first time,
10:03in the country,
10:04but SIR was,
10:05had happened in 2003 also.
10:08Did you see this hue and cry?
10:10Because there was,
10:11sanctity of institutions,
10:12because there was,
10:13a sanctity of the process.
10:14That sanctity,
10:15stands completely,
10:17compromised,
10:18diluted,
10:19and exposed.
10:20There is,
10:20there is nothing called,
10:21nothing left,
10:22of the word sanctity,
10:24in the election commission of India.
10:25Gyanesh Kumar Gupta,
10:27will pay a heavy price,
10:28for what he has done,
10:29to this country.
10:30He should,
10:32apologize,
10:33to the country.
10:34He should turn approver,
10:35if he doesn't want to face,
10:37the kind of trial,
10:37which is in store for him.
10:40Pawan Keda,
10:40for joining us,
10:41on the show tonight.
10:42You did a different work.
10:42I saw these things,
