- 2 hours ago
PolicyStreet isn’t trying to replace traditional insurers. It’s focusing on the gaps they often struggle to reach - gig workers, bite-sized policies and coverage built into the apps people already use. Co-founder Wilson Beh joins Cynthia Ng to talk about carving out that space in insurance and whether insurtech can meaningfully close the protection gap.
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00:09Hello, I'm Cynthia Ng and you are watching Awani Review.
00:13The way we buy insurance is changing.
00:15It can be bought online everywhere now almost, on an app.
00:18And more often than not, the insurance itself is embedded in some of the services that we use every day.
00:23Yet, the protection gap in Malaysia remains significant.
00:27Millions of Malaysians are still under-insured or uninsured.
00:32So what has technology really changed in this regard and what has it failed to solve?
00:38Joining me today to talk more about this topic is the founder and group CEO of InsurTech Policy Street.
00:46Wilson Pei, thank you so much for coming on the show and great to have you.
00:50Thank you, Cynthia.
00:50Let's talk about the beginning because when Policy Street started 10 years ago,
00:56there was one simple pitch which is to make insurance more accessible, more convenient through technology, right?
01:02But while technology had fixed a lot of the access and distribution,
01:07yet at the same time we look at the protection gap, it remains quite high.
01:11What do you think technology has managed to solve 10 years ago and still remain a challenge for you as
01:19an insurtech company?
01:20It has been a great evolution in the past 10 years for Policy Street journey.
01:25When we first started, our mission was very simple.
01:27We wanted to make insurance more inclusive, more accessible, more relevant using technology.
01:33And what we have learned over the past 10 years is that the key to ensure that there's inclusivity in
01:40insurance does not just lie in pure technology alone.
01:43The issue with protection gap lies in three core areas.
01:47Number one, convenience.
01:49Number two, affordability.
01:51And number three is relevance when it comes to insurance product, when we cater to different segments of the societies.
01:57So this is where, over the past 10 years, we have learned to use technology plus trustworthiness plus convenience to
02:04help our customers to be able to embed and allow them to get different protections throughout their life journey.
02:10All right, let's go through those three reasons.
02:12But one thing is clear is that the protection gap, if you look at the numbers, are quite stark.
02:17Half of Malaysians still have no life protection.
02:21Almost 80% have no private medical cover.
02:23So from your vantage point, where do you see is the biggest problem, at least in Malaysia?
02:28In Malaysia, it's true that half of the population is not yet insured with live policy.
02:34And as per the recent year-wide research, close to 50% of the retail respondents also mentioned that affordability
02:43is one of the key areas why they do not have the access to insurance.
02:46And this is where the three areas that I mentioned, convenience, accessibility, affordability, and relevance are key to unlock the
02:55insurance penetrations rate in Malaysia.
02:57So why convenience is an issue?
02:59Because when it comes to getting insurance, today there are multiple avenues for the customers to access insurance.
03:06And if we are able to provide a more digitally savvy, the more digitally advanced way of getting insurance, it
03:12will encourage more users to get themselves protected as to go through a different life journey.
03:17Number two, in terms of affordability, this remains an important and a critical issue.
03:22More often than not, people don't just wake up to think about protection.
03:25A lot of the population, what is their key priority is to be able to really put food on the
03:31table.
03:32And when there is surplus of funds, this is where they start thinking about additional financial product.
03:36However, when it comes to insurance, the beauty of insurance is really to be able to help people to protect
03:42themselves when something goes wrong.
03:44And this is where, through technology, we have been trying to use multi-ways to ensure that the premium can
03:50be made more affordable,
03:51in a more bite-sized manner, to ensure that people have the surplus to get themselves protected in different life
03:57journey.
03:58And last but not least, in terms of relevance, this is also very crucial.
04:02Gone are the days where people will just go on to spend a huge amount of premium to buy insurance
04:07that is not relevant to them.
04:09The question is, how can we make sure that the protection coverage is more relevant to different lifestyle, different life
04:16moments and different life stages?
04:17And this is where insurtech or digital insurance players are meant to break through in this area.
04:22All right. I do want to get your insights into how people are spending their hard-earned money on protection.
04:27Because you're sitting on the data of more than 10 million people who have bought insurance from your platform, Policy
04:33Street, across Southeast Asia and Australia.
04:36What have you learned about how people behave versus what they actually need?
04:41You know, going back to relevance. So you may, you know, some people may actually need more health insurance than
04:47life protection, for instance.
04:48But how are they responding on the platform that they're buying from?
04:53Sure. So for Policy Street, we have been focusing a lot in embedded insurance, where we are able to customise,
05:00personalise, relevant, more micro-natured insurance policy and solutions,
05:04where we embed with our multiple platform partners.
05:07And what we have learned in working with platform partners and in turn serving millions of policyholders in Malaysia and
05:14beyond is that if we are able to curate and offer the right and the relevant insurance protection solutions to
05:21our target audience at the right moment and right point,
05:24the tendency for them to tick or to purchase the insurance coverage is very high.
05:29Say, for example, when someone were to buy a travel flight ticket and we offer travel protection for them, it's
05:36part of the journey.
05:37When someone were to buy an expensive electrical device or a gadget and we offer external warranty protection.
05:44So this is where the protection journey takes place very naturally.
05:47Similarly to gig workers, cumulatively Policy Street, we have insured close to 1 million gig workers in Malaysia alone.
05:55We have also ensured that our protection is very relevant with the different moments of risk for these gig workers.
06:02For example, when they were to deliver the food parcel from one point to another during torrential downpour, we also
06:09protect the key gadgets from helmet to their motorbike to their personal gadget like handphone.
06:15And this is where we make sure that the protection is becoming more relevant, more personalised throughout different life moments
06:22and stages.
06:23So from what you're saying, what I understand is that the insurance packages have become more bite-sized rather than
06:31a lump sum of what we use to purchase a live insurance or the medical insurance.
06:35Is that how you're seeing what's playing across the platform?
06:37That's right.
06:37That's right.
06:38Because when we are able to make the insurance protection to be more bite-sized in nature, this brings down
06:42the affordability gap for our target audience.
06:46Going back to the three key pain points that today the population is facing, convenience, affordability and relevance for insurance
06:53protection.
06:54And this is where through bite-sized protection, we are able to bring down the gap in terms of affordability
06:58because the premium becomes more less expensive in nature.
07:02People can customise the different protection gap.
07:04But what is also interesting is when it comes to relevance, because the product is customised in a bite-sized
07:10manner, we ensure that the protection is made more personalised and relevant to our target audience.
07:16And this is where insurance or protection becomes more interesting.
07:20When you encounter certain moments of risk or certain fear of having certain consequences, you are able to obtain the
07:29relevant insurance.
07:30And this is where I believe the beauty of embedded insurance and embedded finance prevails in.
07:35It feels that the nature of insurance or how the product is being built has changed a lot compared to,
07:43say, the way the traditional insurances worked back then.
07:46I believe so, right?
07:47Because in the past, traditionally, a lot of the insurance products are built based on historical data.
07:53And the way traditional products are distributed are mainly through different channels, from agencies to brokers.
08:01However, today, with digital economy advancement, with AI, with different evolution of business model, there has been different forms and
08:10needs of insurance.
08:11For example, 10, 15 years back, there were not many talks about the relevant need for gig workers' insurance.
08:1810, 15 years back, probably there was not much of e-commerce protection.
08:23But today, with advancement of technology, the need for a different form of insurance has also evolved.
08:28And this is where an insurtech like Policy Street will come in, where we innovate together by working with insurance
08:33partners to serve this blue ocean, the digital economy.
08:36Okay, let's talk about gig workers because more people across the region are working gig-to-gig, grab rides, freelance
08:42projects, certain months, good money, some months, nothing, right?
08:48275,000 riders and drivers, as well as freelancers, are on your platform, covered through your platform right now.
08:53What does that protection actually look like for them day to day?
08:58And how do you actually design insurance for someone whose income changed so dramatically from month to month?
09:05How do you work that?
09:06What kind of data point comes into play?
09:09That's right, that's right.
09:09So for gig workers, the key difference between gig workers and traditional employees is that most of the gig workers,
09:16formerly, they are not an employee with a particular platform or organization.
09:21And therefore, most of them do not have access to the traditional employee benefits.
09:26And yet, most of them, these gig workers, the people that we see on the road, they are also exposed
09:32to multiple risk.
09:33And what PolicyStreet has been able to do very effectively is to really work together with our underwriting partners, the
09:41insurance partners, and also to understand the needs of the gig workers.
09:45And we curated gig workers' insurance product, which caters to their needs in multiple prong.
09:51Number one, we cover in terms of death and total permanent disablement.
09:55If there's any death that were to take place, at least the beneficiaries of the family will be able to
10:02receive a decent payout.
10:03But more importantly, the evolution of their different behavior has resulted us to be thinking more innovatively in curating insurance
10:11policy.
10:12So today, we are also protecting these gig workers on a day-to-day basis.
10:16For example, if they are not able to work on that particular day because of accident, they are able to
10:23get a daily hospital payout from 50 ringgit to 100 ringgit.
10:26At least they are able to get some money to put from the table.
10:29We also cover all their key personal content from motorbike to phone to helmet.
10:35And we also cover medical expenses up to a few thousand ringgit.
10:39So if there's any form of bill payout that require their immediate attention, the insurance is there to help to
10:46solve their issues.
10:47But not only that, what we have learned over the years is that it's good to have a curated personalized
10:52product for gig workers.
10:53But what is crucial is also post-sales.
10:56How are we doing in terms of post-sales services?
10:59And this is where Policy Street, we have also built a digital claims portal to help the gig workers to
11:04submit their claims accordingly,
11:05both in Bahasa, in the native languages, to help them to go through the post-claims services and processes in
11:12a more seamless manner.
11:13All right.
11:14So getting someone to buy a policy is one thing, but keeping them insured for the long term, that's another
11:18challenge, right?
11:20Someone might be able to afford a policy at 35 years old, but may struggle to pay for it at
11:2655, when you really need protection the most.
11:30So is Policy Street, your mission, is it to design protection that also remains affordable over a lifetime?
11:37Because from what I'm hearing, it's more like you're looking at piecemeals and you're talking about gig workers.
11:42It's more immediate risks, right?
11:43So what do you see for long term protection?
11:47Definitely long term protection is something on top of our mind.
11:51And this is very much aligned with Policy Street's mission.
11:53Our mission is to make insurance protection simple, easy and affordable and to ensure as we go through different stages
12:00of life, we get adequately protected.
12:03And by doing embedded insurance, we are fulfilling this mission by having pockets of risk fulfilled through insurance.
12:10But what we are thinking and implementing and executing is also to ensure our customers as to go through different
12:16life cycles,
12:17whether they are 35 years old, whether they are 55 years old, they are able to access to the right
12:22insurance product.
12:24And this is where we work with multiple partners, especially in the travel verticals, in the e-commerce verticals, in
12:30the automotive verticals,
12:31in the digital economy verticals, to ensure that we are able to cater to the right audience across different life
12:36ages.
12:37Let's talk about affordability, the cost of protection.
12:40We understand that medical costs are increasing, but could you give us an insight into what are the other factors
12:46that are pushing premium prices up?
12:48And are there areas you think a company like yours, Policy Street, will be able to step in to help
12:54manage that a bit more through the technology that you are using?
12:57Sure. I think medical inflation, medical costs and insurance is a complex industry issue.
13:05It is not just one standalone industry problem to be solved.
13:10It requires essentially the whole of a nation approach to solve this national issue.
13:16And today we are seeing that different stakeholders are coming in from MOH to MOF to BNM and also different
13:22industry partners are coming in
13:24to really look into the fundamental issue of this problem and to come up with different strategies.
13:29For example, the reset strategy and also to come up with the base MHIT plan to ensure that medical plan
13:35can be made more affordable,
13:37but more importantly, sustainable in the long run for population across different walks of life.
13:42But of course, this requires behavioural change.
13:45This requires collaboration and buy-in from different partners, from medical practitioners, to hospitals, to insurance partners,
13:53to distributors, to regulators and many others.
13:55The role that Policy Street is playing is that today we are serving a lot of the SMEs and also
14:02mid-tier companies when it comes to employee benefits.
14:06So today we are serving a lot of these employees with medical plan.
14:11So we work with multiple insurance to curate the best-in-value medical plan for these employees,
14:17so that at least they have a base medical plan that is purchased by their employer on top of whatever
14:24individual plan that they may have.
14:25But we are not doing only that.
14:27From the learning, serving all these employers through the partnership with the corporates,
14:31we have learned that preventive healthcare is also very crucial.
14:35Because when it comes to hospitalisation, the cost of medical will have escalated a lot more.
14:40It is much more wiser in order to ensure that there is a sustainability in medical insurance.
14:47It is to ensure that the preventive healthcare, the wellness, the awareness is done properly.
14:52And this is where Policy Street, we have been able to work with multiple health tech partners,
14:57medical care partners to do wellness training, health screening, mental wellness programs for our companies and the employees.
15:07To ensure that they are able to lead a much more healthier lifestyle and to be able to reduce their
15:13healthcare insurance costs in the long run.
15:15All right.
15:16This leads to the next question I had wanted to ask because you work with businesses across industries.
15:20You are in logistics, travel, telecom.
15:23What problem do they actually come to you to solve?
15:26Could you give us an example of risk that the traditional model, the corporate model, wasn't able to solve,
15:33but a company like yours able to for businesses that you work with?
15:36Sure.
15:37I come back to the example of gig workers.
15:39So a couple of years back, when we first engaged with our very first gig worker partner,
15:45they came to us with a few pinpoints.
15:48The first pinpoint was that they were not able to get insurance partner to support their gig worker insurance plan
15:53because there were a lot of legal ambiguity in terms of the relationship between the gig worker and the platform
15:58partner.
15:59Secondly, most of the insurance partners at that point of time, they had a very fixated way of curating policy.
16:07And third, it is also very difficult and challenging to engage with tens of thousands of gig workers when it
16:14comes to claim,
16:15when it comes to education on insurance purposes.
16:18And this is where policy should we have came in, in the past few years.
16:22And we have done pretty well, I would say, in these three areas.
16:26We stand at the intersection between digital economy, such as a gig worker platform,
16:30and also the traditional insurance partners.
16:33We can speak both languages.
16:34We understand the lingo, and we were glad to be able to pull two parties together
16:38and curated the right policy for the gig worker partner.
16:42And more importantly, we have also been able to ensure that we build the right digital tool
16:47to ensure the gig workers get to claim their policy more effectively.
16:51And we have also been supporting them to go on the ground to do educational series,
16:56to explain to them why is it important to have themselves covered.
17:01So this is the pinpoint that policy should get to solve.
17:04And we are not doing it just for gig workers.
17:06We are doing that across different verticals, in the automotive sector,
17:10in the travel sector, in the e-commerce sector, and in the logistics sector,
17:13in turn reaching out to millions of consumers and businesses.
17:16So in your business, you have a few parts, right?
17:17You have the B2B, B2C, and the individual customers.
17:20Can you give us a sense of how big are, in terms of what's driving growth?
17:24Sure. So for Policy Street, we have three key pillars.
17:27The first pillar is literally in the embedded insurance space,
17:31what we call as B2B2C.
17:32We work with platform partners to curate the right insurance,
17:36embed the right solutions at the point of sales,
17:38and in turn covering their end users.
17:39This is like a travel insurance, auto insurance.
17:41Travel insurance, auto insurance.
17:42The second part is on B2B, where we do a lot of the group medical plan
17:47to serve SMEs, to serve companies for their medical needs, for their employees.
17:52And the third is our direct-to-consumer channel.
17:55This is an initiative or a pillar that we have been putting a lot more investment
17:59and focus in the past one year.
18:01This is where you can get to policystreet.com to renew your car insurance,
18:05to compare different policies, to get yourself covered.
18:07So these are the three key pillars.
18:09Today, we are known in the embedded insurance pillar when it comes to the domain knowledge,
18:16but definitely from the learnings that we have captured,
18:18we are also using that to increase our penetration and also our strength in the other two verticals.
18:24Alright, so policystreet turned profitable, I believe it was just about a year ago,
18:28and you're targeting double revenue this year.
18:32Where does that growth actually come from?
18:34Will you be going deeper into existing markets, existing verticals in these markets,
18:39or are you reaching people, falling through the gap,
18:42or will that be more expansion abroad?
18:44Yep, so definitely we are targeting both approaches to go deeper in Malaysia.
18:51Malaysia is a very interesting and unique market.
18:54We may not have the so-called population dividend when it comes back to other regional markets,
18:58but in terms of the premium size, we have one of the highest premium size and potential growth in the
19:03region.
19:04And our goal is to ensure that we continue to deepen our leadership in Malaysia,
19:08but at the same time to look into strategic expansion to the regional market,
19:13whether it is Indonesia, whether it is Singapore, whether it is into Vietnam.
19:17We adopt a demand-led approach when it comes to expanding to this new market,
19:22because for Policy Street, we aspire not just to become a local champion,
19:26we want to become a regional champion, born out of Malaysia.
19:29And this is where our recent investment conclusion,
19:31led by the Surinwall Fund in Japan, our Series C,
19:35will fill us to our next wave of growth.
19:37So Policy Street started off 10 years ago as distribution play.
19:41Now, you also underwrite and re-insure risks yourselves through your Labuan entity.
19:47Why did the technology and distribution layers stop being enough for Policy Street?
19:52Yes, so we have been around in the past 10 years,
19:54and what we have learned over time is that in this very traditional and complex industry called insurance,
20:00in order to do very well and excel in this space,
20:03one requires to occupy the value chain from downstream to upstream.
20:09And this is where, when we first started as just a distributor,
20:11as just a platform partner, we realised that it was not enough.
20:15We must be able to occupy upstream influence to be able to curate and price certain more innovative products
20:23and work with multiple insurers to help more population and markets to get covered.
20:27And this is where we started to have our own re-insurance entity,
20:32which is a sister company to our other entities,
20:34helmed by different professionals,
20:36where we truly look into regionalisations, underwriting and pricing.
20:40As you take on more risks,
20:42would that mean that you become more of an insurer, less of a technology player?
20:47How does that look like? What is your vision?
20:48That is really the balancing act, being an insurtech company,
20:53both being a technical expert in the insurance space,
20:56to have the underwriting know-how, to have the pricing know-how,
20:59to be able to manage capital well.
21:01But at the same time, it's also to be able to really advance on technology,
21:05especially in this AI era, where it is an equaliser,
21:08it is also a catalyst for a lot more possibilities and new innovation to be flourishing.
21:14So that is always a balancing act.
21:17How do we ensure that we are able to serve very well,
21:20technically in the insurance space,
21:22but use technology to enable our services to be better?
21:24Alright. I do want to go back to technology,
21:26because when you first started,
21:28technology and insurance was to improve access, distribution,
21:31bring down the cost.
21:32But what is it that technology cannot fix?
21:36Because of all those costs,
21:37what else can technology meaningfully bring down?
21:41And which ones will barely move,
21:44even with the best of technology?
21:46I think it boils down to the word which is aligned with the industry,
21:52trust.
21:53Technology can definitely help the entire customer processes,
21:57behaviour, data analytics,
21:59backend processes to be done very well.
22:02But in this space called insurance,
22:04I think the trust is of immense importance.
22:07And this cannot be resolved by just having the best technology in the world.
22:11This requires truly whether a company like us or other intratec players,
22:16are you properly regulated?
22:17Are you really advancing responsible innovation,
22:20drawing a line in terms of customer protections and innovation?
22:24And also truly the values and the motifs
22:28and also the objectives that the company stand for.
22:30Because after all, technology or maybe affordability
22:34can get you across the line to onboard a new customer.
22:38But whether the customer can stay with you
22:40from 35 years old to 55 years old or in the long run,
22:43that requires a long-standing trust and deepening.
22:47And this is where we believe that technology cannot just easily replicate trust.
22:51Do you feel that trust from customers
22:52when they get on board to your company,
22:54which is not like the traditional insurance companies,
22:57do you feel that there's a lack of trust for a startup
22:59or an intratec company?
23:01I think in the early stage,
23:02definitely we had to do a lot to prove ourselves.
23:04And therefore, we went into our licensing route.
23:07We became one of the first,
23:08if not the first, homegrown intratec to be awarded
23:10and FA approved by the regulator.
23:13We went on to acquire multiple licenses.
23:15And we also became the first and perhaps only intratec
23:19to be invested by the Sorong Wild Fund in Malaysia.
23:21And now we're also having the second Sorong Wild Fund in Japan
23:24to be on board of our shareholding cap table.
23:27And this is where our credibility has been improved over the past many years.
23:31But however, when it comes to trust building,
23:33I think the beauty of Policy Street is that
23:35we are not purely competing with the traditional insurance brands.
23:40We're actually complementing them.
23:41So when the insurance customer, when they look at Policy Street,
23:44they know that Policy Street is able to give them more agile solutions,
23:48a better service when it comes to accessibility
23:50and when it comes to relevance and convenience.
23:52But at the same time, Policy Street also is a trustworthy partner
23:56for a lot of the traditional, established big insurance brands.
24:01And this is where I believe intratec and traditional insurance companies
24:04can coexist and continue to power up
24:07and to solve the financial inclusion issue.
24:10All right.
24:10Well, thank you so much, Wilson, for coming on the show
24:12and just to give us an insight into the business
24:13as well as your thoughts about the protection gap in Malaysia.
24:16Hope to have you on again.
24:17Thank you, Cynthia.
24:18My pleasure.