- 2 hours ago
On this episode of Power House, Zeb Lowe sits down with top-producing originator and Premier Mortgage Resources executive Mandi Feely Swain to trace her career from loan processing to the executive level. She explains what separates the originators who will excel in a tough market from those who fall away.
Related to the episode:
Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/
Mandi Feely's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandifeely/
Premier Mortgage Resources
https://www.pmrloans.com/
Want more from Zeb? Don’t forget to subscribe to LendingLife.
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Related to the episode:
Zeb Lowe’s LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zebulon-lowe-a02353a4/
Mandi Feely's LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandifeely/
Premier Mortgage Resources
https://www.pmrloans.com/
Want more from Zeb? Don’t forget to subscribe to LendingLife.
The Power House podcast brings the biggest names in housing to answer hard-hitting questions about industry trends, operational and growth strategy, and leadership. Join HousingWire’s Zeb Lowe every Thursday morning for candid conversations with industry leaders to learn how they’re differentiating themselves from the competition. Hosted and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Powerhouse.
00:01Every loan officer knows what they're supposed to be doing.
00:04So why do so few actually do it when the market gets hard?
00:08Today's guests built her career on that gap.
00:12Mandy Feely-Swain is a senior executive at Premier Mortgage Resources
00:15and one of the top producing originators in the country.
00:18We trace her road from processing loans to the executive seat
00:22and get into what separates the producers who survive and excel
00:25from the ones who disappear.
00:38All right, Mandy, thank you for joining me.
00:40Oh, thanks for having me today. This is going to be fun.
00:42Yes, ma'am. I think so.
00:44We have never spoken before.
00:45We were actually, we were introduced through email from Logan Motoshami.
00:52Yeah, I love Logan. He's so fun.
00:54He's been at our sales rallies and his energy is awesome.
00:57And his insight into the market is always spot on.
01:02And I think he calms nerves of loan officers.
01:05And that is a, that's a trick in itself.
01:08Logan's one of those few people that you work with throughout the course of your career
01:11that really stands, stands out.
01:14And he definitely, he's been that guy for me since I've been here.
01:16Well, and his hair, of course, you know, everyone knows his hair.
01:21Yeah, of course. And his phrases and his chart daddy nicknames.
01:25And he's a, he's a whole bundle of marketing joy, I think.
01:29Yeah, I, I, I, we just really enjoy him.
01:32And he, you know, I think that the, the knowledge he brings to the market is so key for originators
01:40like me.
01:41And that would be one thing I'd say as a loan officer is find a source of truth that actually
01:47can give you guidance in the market.
01:49Cause the white noise on main media, main, you know, media outlets is not as good as
01:57the information you can get that somebody that eats, sleeps and breathes the market,
02:02you know, and he does that.
02:03Right. Well, you're on, you're obviously, you're someone that eats, sleeps and breathes
02:07the, uh, the market as well.
02:08And so tell me, how did you get into, uh, into the business?
02:12Like, you know, it's like, it's very much a cliche and a lot of the interviews and conversations
02:16that I have, it starts off similarly, but they're all interesting to me that every, everybody
02:21kind of has their own path of falling into the industry.
02:25Nobody sets out.
02:26That's what you just said is like a gazillion percent true.
02:29Most originators trip into the industry or fall into the industry or.
02:33Know someone as someone.
02:34I don't think many kids were in third grade and when I'm going to grow up and be a loan
02:37officer.
02:38I don't think that that was like a thing, uh, maybe banking cause their parents weren't
02:43banking or something like that.
02:44But I, uh, was blessed to have a really good friend in high school and he decided very early
02:52on in college that he was like, I'm not going to go to college anymore.
02:56I'm going to go fall in my dad's path.
02:58And his dad, Tom had, uh, you know, he was back in the day when they were doing coffee arms
03:03and all the things.
03:04So very long time ago, he was an originator and a very successful originator.
03:08So my friend Ryan did that.
03:10And then he said, Hey, they have a job at the front desk.
03:13And so I said, okay, cool.
03:15This sounds wildly adult compared to working at a tanning salon and going to college.
03:19So I get my own phone line.
03:21I was, I was, uh, just barely 20 years old at that time.
03:26And, uh, here, fast forward, I'll be 51 next month and it'll be 31 years in the mortgage
03:32space.
03:32And I feel very grateful for this crazy journey I've been on, but yeah, I started at the front
03:38desk and those, uh, you that are like old dogs, like me in the business, uh, 31 years
03:44ago, we were on Genesis, which was like LOS.
03:48It was like Pong, LOS.
03:51If you played Pong too, you know, it says like a screen and has like very like white lines
03:57and, and it's a very archaic, but I guess, you know, people in prior to that were type
04:03on typewriters.
04:04So I think I'm lucky I was on Genesis, but that's how I started in the business at a front
04:07desk and couldn't spell FHA, uh, or probably mortgage at the time.
04:12I miss the T a lot.
04:13And so then my career just evolved from there.
04:19Yeah.
04:19I was, I think I saw online that you, I mean, you held pretty much every, uh, position when
04:24you were a processor.
04:26You obviously said you started the front, uh, uh, the front desk.
04:29You've held pretty much every position that there is to hold.
04:31I, I, I was never really, I got to a point in my career, my boss at the time, he
04:37said,
04:37you have two choices.
04:38You can be an operation support person, or you can go down this path of sales.
04:44And it was kind of wild for me to pick the, the sales side of the business because my parents
04:50had been, had jobs that they'd been at a long time.
04:54They'd traded time for money.
04:56And so this upside sounded more secure to me, but he goes, you're all of 23 years old.
05:01Like how much are your bills?
05:02You know, how many loans do you have to close in order to make this worth it?
05:06And so I picked the sales side and I'm so grateful I did my, you know, my personality
05:12has really thrived in that environment, but I, starting as a processor, I learned the paperwork
05:19side of the business first and then moved into that sales side.
05:23So, and it, and it was kind of unnerving to me.
05:26I wasn't, I wasn't like gung ho.
05:28I'm just going to become a loan officer and I'm, I'm good at sales.
05:31That was not my MO.
05:33I learned that through being very good at the paperwork part, my business thrived because
05:39I didn't commit to things I couldn't fulfill and I was very thorough.
05:44And those two skills that I got from processing really have launched my career and, and subsequently
05:50my team, which I talk about in my book.
05:52Like, and, and, and they all came from a processing background.
05:56So I'm not saying you have to start that way, but that's how my journey started.
06:00Yeah.
06:00Well, I mean, everybody knows, I mean, everybody knows that the, the number one complaint that,
06:04uh, that happens at every branch or even at the corporate level, it's like submit, clean
06:07file, submit, clean file.
06:09So if you come from, uh, the ops side, uh, if you come from a processing background or something,
06:13you know what a clean file looks like.
06:15And then you're used to being more disciplined about, I guess, what you submit before you submit
06:21it.
06:22Yeah.
06:22I just, and you minimize reputational risk.
06:24That I think is one of the biggest things originators struggle with.
06:28If they make a commitment and don't follow through or they miss things in their files and it's
06:33a disaster, you know, they ride lightning to the finish line and then it's, you know, the
06:38crazy train leaves the station and everybody's frustrated and upset with you.
06:41And so I think that that would be some advice I'd have to loan officers, learn products and
06:46programs.
06:47Those, those are very important because you can find, um, you can find solutions for people
06:52that they need.
06:53But on the other side, being thorough and understanding the paperwork side of it, um, will ensure that
06:59you minimize reputational risk long-term because you'll be able to say no thank you on a file
07:06earlier than maybe an originator that doesn't understand that.
07:09Yeah.
07:10Well, so right now, I mean, you hold an interest.
07:12So you're talking about kind of picking, uh, picking a lane, but you occupy, or I guess
07:17you could argue two, two lanes when you're, uh, you know, you're an executive at PMR, but
07:22you're also, uh, an originator as well.
07:24And, uh, you know, most people, most people pick, pick, pick one lane.
07:29So can you talk me through, you know, why you decided, yeah, how does that, how does that
07:34look like?
07:36Yeah, I, two things, a few things there, um, back in 12, um, if you remember coming out
07:43of the crash, those that were, you know, part of that, um, it took me a long time to watch
07:48the big short cause it was pretty painful because I think I lived that.
07:51And, uh, in 2012, I decided to go back to the frontline and start doing home loans because
07:56I had, you know, I was recently divorced and I had two little kids.
07:59And I really knew that I, when I learned a very valuable lesson about managing loan
08:05officers, you can make them, you know, you can cheer for them, love them, want it for
08:10them, but honestly, they have to really want it for themselves before they're going to go
08:15and be their best self.
08:17And so I had a choice.
08:20I really had a choice of struggling while my branch was, you know, while they were struggling
08:25in the market or going back to the frontline and doing home loans.
08:29And that on it, honestly, that day in a sushi restaurant, when I said, I want to get back
08:34to the frontline and doing home loans is what's propelled our company to the success it's
08:38had.
08:39Um, I wouldn't, I enjoy the origination business.
08:43I enjoy helping homeowners achieve the dream of a home ownership.
08:47And I feel like being a frontline leader has been very valuable to me.
08:52Um, as my husband says, um, you know, you have a seat at this executive table, but you have
08:57a seat at the dinner table.
08:58And so you're talking both ways.
09:00And so if they're at premiere, our company today, if there's something that's not quite
09:06right operationally or something that needs to be streamlined, since I'm on the frontline,
09:11I can go to the executive C-suite, that team and say, Hey, production needs this.
09:18And I think for me and our company, that's been key because then you can quickly make
09:23change.
09:24And I, my team, and I couldn't do it without an amazing, incredible team, right?
09:29So over the years I've built this team and, um, many of my teammates have been with me
09:34over a decade.
09:35So we have a dance and the dance is easy because they understand how I work.
09:41They understand.
09:41And I had to put systems and processes in place.
09:44You can't, you're never going to have an outstanding team unless you set expectations and you have
09:50systems and processes and that those that are actually doing the system and processes are
09:56willing to do again and again and again.
09:58And so for me, the only way I can be the EVP of premier mortgage resources and, and have
10:04that title is to also have an incredible team.
10:09And the ladies that work with me are outstanding.
10:11Um, I, I would say that I would forego a relationship with a real estate agent, then I would lose
10:20a person on my team because I can build new relationships.
10:23It takes a long time to build working relationships with your team.
10:27So, yeah, I think there's something too, that, uh, loan originators, they really respond more
10:31to the, the, like the, the, the, the man and the arena, um, ethos than, uh, than really anyone else
10:40I've, that I've seen or, or been around in the housing industry at large, where, you know, if
10:44you're, if you, if you haven't done it and then there's, and there's even a big gap between people
10:49that did it as an originator and they were successful as an originator and then they transitioned
10:54into a leadership role, but then no longer originator, no longer are actively in the arena
10:58and the way that loan originators, um, respond to them, follow them and, uh, and trust them.
11:05I think that that's very, um, it's very important for them.
11:08Well, even to your point, even in the last four years, gosh, we've gone through a lot of
11:14change, right?
11:15I think that we hit 22 and rates went up and people are like, oh, we're going to hit a
11:20refi boom.
11:21I think we've been saying that for four years now and we haven't, we, we are in this consistent
11:26purchase market.
11:28Um, we, you know, I think I entered, I had the pleasure of interviewing Logan on what my
11:34podcast called Origination Boost.
11:35And one thing he said is welcome, like, welcome to the new normal.
11:39We're in a normal housing market and, um, this we're on a normal pace.
11:44So originators today need to figure out how to leverage the current market.
11:49Cause it's not probably changing for a while and when in that market.
11:54And to your point, if you were a leader on the frontline during pandemic, let's say in
11:59doing home loans, and then you got out of it because you were doing all these loans and
12:03then you built this team and then you went into 22, the market's different.
12:07And the way you market today is different.
12:09And the way you talk to consumers is different.
12:11I mean, you could trip out your front door during pandemic and give your mailman a loan
12:15cause everybody wanted a two or 3% rate.
12:17Now we're talking about affordability.
12:19We're talking about interest rates.
12:21We're talking about why they wanted to buy a home in the first place.
12:24You know, I can't stand my neighbor and I need to move.
12:26Um, so I think that to your point, I think that if you get too far away from the frontline,
12:32and that is my opinion, and that's why I'll, I will probably, that my origination business
12:37will be the last thing that I retire with.
12:40It won't be a title.
12:41It won't be, um, a C-suite position.
12:44It'll be originating because I, the farther I get away from that, the more disconnected
12:49I am from the market.
12:50I feel like.
12:52Well, so, uh, on that, what do you, what do you see right now, um, with loan originators
12:57that, or what's the difference right now between loan originators who are, uh, continuing to
13:02not just survive, but do well.
13:04And those who are, you know, they're, they're shredding water or don't, you know, don't
13:08have much longer left in them under current markets.
13:12I think a lot of, a lot of them are exhausted to your point.
13:14I think that this market has been, um, uh, exhausting, but for those of us that had marketing,
13:23you know, I talk about the paperwork side and I think that is critical.
13:27So I, I don't, I don't want to forego that, but you can be really great at the paperwork
13:31side and not be a very good hunter.
13:33You might not be able to go out in the market and make those calls and talk to, you know,
13:38real estate partners or builders or financial advisors or, you know, attorneys.
13:43And I think that the difference is that the people I see winning are the ones that are
13:48talking to a lot of humans.
13:50They're getting as many ups as they can and their net has gotten wider, you know, back
13:55and back before the pandemic, even you need to maybe six or seven really good originate,
14:00sorry, agents that were in your sphere and would refer you business.
14:04And now you probably need a lot more than that.
14:07I mean, I'm in Boise, Idaho, and, uh, I was, I was visiting with a top performing real
14:12estate agent, uh, just, just last week.
14:15And she said 84% of agents had done no transactions in our market.
14:20So some of it is, is that you need to learn where the business is at to start with, get
14:28a plan around that, and then work really hard every day.
14:31It's the non-sexy stuff that those originators that are winning are doing every single day
14:36to stay in the game, keep their production up.
14:41Um, you know, from, from the things like writing thank you notes.
14:45I mean, we write, my team writes over a thousand thank you notes a year to, uh, having those
14:51phone calls to your agents, texting them, sharing new programs and products.
14:56It's all the basics that those top originators are doing in order to stay in the game.
15:03So that ties back on, or is maybe an extension of what you just said, but what do you think
15:09makes someone great at the, as an originator great at the job today?
15:13Not, you know, not, not 10 years, not 10 years ago, not what a, you know, a great LO looked
15:18like in 98, 2008, but, you know, but today, is there, is there much of a difference or do
15:23you still think that it's, or do you think that it's still the same basic personality or
15:27character traits?
15:29Well, I really believe learners are earners.
15:32And so if you're willing to evolve, because this market's evolving quickly, I mean, you
15:37know, I hear a lot of AI conversations and questions, and, um, I think that if you're
15:43not willing to adapt and evolve, you are going to get left behind, period, end of story.
15:48I still think no matter what technology comes out, I, you know, I think it's funny, like
15:52when a, a U S came out, uh, people were like, oh my gosh, you know, underwriters are going
15:57to go away and did they go away?
15:59Nope.
15:59They just learned to validate data off of an, of technology.
16:02And I think that's true of AI today, but you know, what made me, what makes those originators
16:08different or keeps them in the game is that they're willing to adapt and learn.
16:13And for my team, you know, we'd been a top performing team, done all these loans.
16:18And then that when 22 hit, I kind of had to take a step back.
16:22I was like, okay, going into 23, what's my plan going to look like?
16:26Cause it's very different than the plan that, you know, you had a survival plan of do as
16:31many loans as you can work as much as you can and close as many loans as you can in
16:36the,
16:36in that time.
16:37And then we went to this like almost screeching halt to where you had to pivot your business.
16:42And so for me, I had to go, I went to several sales rallies.
16:46I learned new skills.
16:48I brought them back to my team and I said, we need to do things differently because we
16:53still want to be a top performing team.
16:55So I really think it's those originators that, that continue to learn and evolve with the market.
17:02They're going to continue to win those that stay second.
17:05Like I've done it this way for X years are probably going to struggle more than those that
17:11say, I've done it this way for X years and I'm still going to do this, but I'm going
17:15to evolve it to whatever the market is demanding of me.
17:20Yeah.
17:20You, you know, we talked about Logan a little bit at the beginning of this episode, you
17:24know, you had him on, on your podcast and he's spoken with you guys before.
17:29And I'm curious to know what you think a loan officer needs to know about the bigger
17:38parts, you know, bigger picture, like the, the bond market, the fed, you know, all of
17:41it between with the highest ROI, right?
17:45Like what's the difference between being fluent and being able to talk to your customers and
17:51your, and your referral partners versus being, I don't know, like a, playing an economist
17:57on LinkedIn or, or, or Facebook for some sort of like social credibility with, within
18:01your, within your peer group, where do you see the line for loan originators to need to
18:08understand the, the, the housing market at large?
18:12I think that you need a basic information about it.
18:16You do not need to be an economist.
18:18You do not need to be as deep in the weeds as, you know, Logan is.
18:22That's why you need a Logan.
18:23Honestly, that's why you need.
18:25That's all day.
18:26It's charged all day.
18:27Yeah.
18:27I mean, that's why you need people in your tribe or your sphere that, you know, and trust
18:33for that information that you feel confident that you can, um, verbalize and give back to
18:40your customers and you're never going to give it.
18:43I would never give some of the charts that I receive, you know, from Logan and housing wire
18:50to a customer that, you know, is a dentist or they're, they're doing their job.
18:55I need, as an originator, I need to take that information from a trusted source, not just
19:00the media at large.
19:01I'd say, I'd say, turn off your TV and find a source that actually knows what's happening
19:07in the market.
19:08And then subsequently learn how to digest that and give that information to your clients
19:16in a manner that they can understand.
19:19So for me, I do think having a general knowledge of the economy, what's happening, um, what's
19:29driving the market, you know, it's so different.
19:33I used to say, if you could follow gas prices, right?
19:36When they went up, rates went up.
19:38When the gas prices came down, rates came down.
19:41That's changed a lot.
19:43Just in the last six to seven months, that's changed so much.
19:46So that microeconomics that we used to be able to kind of count on is so different.
19:51So having trusted advisors is key because, um, even for me, 30 years in the business, what
19:57I knew to be true, uh, and what I watched is not the same.
20:02So, right.
20:03Yeah.
20:03You know, you were mentioning, uh, LO burnout, but I mean, uh, you know,
20:06this as well as anybody, agents have been having a rough, uh, rough go for the past
20:10couple of years as well.
20:11And so I'm curious from, from your conversations and from what you're experiencing and what
20:18you're, how you're both yourself and how you're coaching your LOs, what does it look
20:22like now?
20:23How is the best way or the most effective way to show up for, for your referral partners
20:30in the market today, as opposed to just, you know, prodding them for, for more, for more
20:34leads, obviously.
20:36Well, you just said the number one thing, show up.
20:38I mean, you cannot go show up, show up, show up hard and then ghost and, and not be available.
20:46Um, those agents that are doing the business, um, are going to expect you to be in and doing
20:54the business and just consistently showing up day after day.
20:57And those, those either agents or, uh, loan officers that I see that are struggling there,
21:06they'll, they'll commit and they'll do something really hard for 30 days.
21:11And then they won't see the, the fruits of that labor for that 30 days.
21:15And so then they get disenfranchised.
21:17They stopped doing the tasks.
21:20They stopped doing those basic things.
21:21And then, then they, then they like, okay, now I don't have a page.
21:26I had a paycheck, but now I don't have a paycheck.
21:27So now I'm going to grind again.
21:29And they get on this kind of, uh, you know, roller coaster, so to speak of the mortgage
21:34or a, you know, real estate business.
21:37And the ones that I see do really well are the ones that say, okay, I don't have any business
21:41today.
21:42I'm going to really focus for the next 90 days, 90 days.
21:46And I'm going to do everything, whether you're an agent, your broker says you need to do
21:51X, Y, and Z to win, or whether, you know, you work here at our company, we, we follow
21:57a protocol called origination boost where I, I bet on that.
22:01If I gave the loan officers a list of things they needed to do and they kept score, you
22:05know, I'm, I love football.
22:06So I love having a scoreboard.
22:08And so I said, I bet you, if I got folks to buy into that and check off the things
22:13they
22:13did and see their productivity, that they'd have more business.
22:17And that's, I have statistic after statistic that shows that that's true.
22:23So my thing is, is during that 90 day phase, when things are, you know, financially, you're
22:30not seeing a paycheck per se.
22:32You need to find small wins.
22:34You need to find wins in your day, things you did that maybe you didn't feel like doing
22:38that day.
22:39Things that you did to have a new partner send you a client and referred you somebody that's
22:45a future client, um, cause those activities will pay the activities I do today will pay
22:53me in 60 to 90 days, unless you just happen to get lucky and somebody needs to close in
22:5730 days and move out of the apartment.
22:58But for the most part, I think that, um, who I see winning is doing those tasks again and
23:06again and again, and doing what you said, show up every day.
23:09And they're not, and those are the ones that are winning the business from agents and, and
23:15from referral partners.
23:16Well, you might, you might've, uh, this might've rolled into the last question that I actually
23:21had for you, which is a good thing.
23:23It'll give you a chance to, uh, uh, take a deeper dive on it maybe.
23:27But what I was, the last question that I had for you was if there's an LO that's listening,
23:31um, right now, who's like you were talking about earlier, they're, they're exhausted.
23:35Pipeline's not doing great, uh, and their confidence isn't, you know, maybe wobbling
23:39a bit as well.
23:40What would be, uh, the first thing that you told them to do, or you advise them to do
23:45immediately, like week, week one, would it be define those small wins and, and go about
23:52achieving those?
23:53What, what, what would your, your primary advice be?
23:55First thing.
23:56First thing I would have them take a scope of their business.
24:00I'd say, how many people do you have in your database?
24:02How many agents, you know, do you have them like on an Excel spreadsheet of people that
24:07you can actually go and call today and actually talk to?
24:10And if not, why?
24:12Um, and then I'd go back to the basics.
24:14Okay.
24:15So you don't have a list of agents you work with, whatever they've aged out of the business,
24:19they're disenfranchised, they, they, their, their life's taken a change.
24:23So you need to rebuild that list.
24:25So then I'd go back to my database of clients.
24:27And I mean, we all have these things that are appendages of our life.
24:31And you can download all your contacts.
24:34And then I go to your contacts and then I call your contacts and say, who, if you had
24:38an agent that you were going to work with in your market, who, who would that be?
24:43And can I call them and tell them that you said that they were amazing and that, you know,
24:49we, we should work together.
24:50And I'd start back in my roots and start building, you know, for me, I grabbed my mom's Christmas
24:56list, um, cause smartphones were really weren't like a thing.
25:00And I started with my mom's Christmas list and that's how I started my business.
25:04But today it's so much more progressed.
25:06So if I, if I had to tell somebody, you need to reboot your business, I'd say, you need
25:11to analyze your business first.
25:13Like, where's it coming from?
25:14How many agents do you have?
25:16Okay.
25:17If you have five or six agents, you probably need a wider net.
25:19If you're not doing the business you want.
25:21And then I would say, if you don't have a list of agents for me, my title company has
25:26been a great valued partner of mine, and they have been a great resource to introduce me
25:31to real estate partners.
25:32And then if you don't have a title relationship, then I go even farther back and I just start
25:37recognizing those people in your phone.
25:39If they're in your phone, then they at some point maybe liked you and, and they want you
25:44to be able to win and succeed and, and they'll help you succeed by, you know, introducing
25:50you to agents they know.
25:52Manny, thank you so much.
25:53I appreciate you taking the time.
25:55It was a pleasure speaking with you.
25:56And, um, I think we got, I'd like to have you back on again in the future.
26:00We've got a lot more stuff to talk about.
26:01Yes.
26:02I'd love that.
26:02Just let me know.
26:03Will do.
26:04Thank you so much.
26:05Okay.
26:05Have a great day.
26:06You as well.