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KenJac | Project Big Screen
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00:00Okay, welcome to Deja View episode 5, the show where we review twin films to decide which one is better.
00:06Today is episode 5. Again, we have previously done The Prestige vs. The Illusionist, Dante's Peak vs. Volcano,
00:11Paul Blart, Mall Cop vs. Observe and Report, and White House Down vs. Olympus Has Fallen.
00:18The last episode was with fights. A little bit of a break, I was out of the country, but now
00:20we are back,
00:21and we are doing a battle of 1998 movies, A Bug's Life vs. Ants.
00:26And I think that this movie is kind of, it reminds me of like the Nickelodeon,
00:30were you a Nickelodeon kid or a Cartoon Network kid? I was a Cartoon Network kid.
00:33Nickelodeon, heavy. And I was a big ants kid.
00:35I was a Cartoon Network kid. Which, I do think Robbie might be, you're probably at the cutoff where the
00:42transitions,
00:43like Cartoon Network started putting out some shit.
00:46Yeah, I feel like Cartoon Network would be like Johnny Bravo, Courage the Cowardly Dog, Codename Kids Next Door.
00:52I liked some of those, but I was kind of a Nick loyalist.
00:54Okay. Like, I was like, if I had the choice of a decent Nick show or a good Cartoon Network
00:59show,
01:00I was going with a decent Nick show and being like, you know, I'm ride or die.
01:04Was anyone a Disney kid?
01:05No.
01:06Yeah.
01:07Disney just was for girls, right?
01:08Very much for me growing up.
01:09I mean, I would, I feel like Hannah Montana was like a guilty pleasure for me when that came out.
01:14I would like pretend.
01:14You also had an older sister, right?
01:16Yeah, but she's nine years older than me, so she was like a little too old for Hannah Montana.
01:20Lizzie, probably Lizzie McGuire, right?
01:21Yes.
01:21Yeah.
01:21Big time.
01:22Yeah.
01:22That, Sabrina, the Teenage Witch.
01:24Yep.
01:24Yeah.
01:25Yeah, I had two younger brothers, so we were all purely Cartoon Network kids.
01:28Like, it was like, oh, that's Billy and Mandy, Invaders Inn.
01:30I liked Billy and Mandy.
01:32I liked Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends.
01:35Oh, dude.
01:35It was a good one.
01:36I liked that one, yeah.
01:37There were some Cartoon Network shows that would get me, but I would feel like dirty watching them.
01:40Yeah.
01:40Yeah.
01:41For sure.
01:43This movie so far, though, out of all the ones we've reviewed so far, has the biggest actual public feud,
01:49so I want to give some context before we start reviewing it a little bit.
01:53So we start out with Jeffrey Katzenberg, who I think a lot of us would probably maybe or maybe not
01:57know as the face of Quibi, one of the biggest failures in history.
02:00So he was the chair of Walt Disney Studios for a decade, ending in 1994, when he left after a
02:05big feud with Michael Eisner, who was the CEO of Disney.
02:08When the president of Disney had died, Eisner had took over his duties instead of promoting Katzenberg, allegedly because Walt
02:12Disney's nephew, Roy, who was a very influential member of the board, hated Katzenberg, allegedly.
02:18Katzenberg leaves the company, and Eisner refuses to pay him his contract-acquired bonus and convince the board to give
02:22him nothing, so Katzenberg is like, fuck you.
02:25I'm going to go and beat you guys at what you do.
02:26So he goes on to co-found DreamWorks with Spielberg and David Geffen and is left in charge of animation.
02:32When it's announced that Ants is in production, Steve Jobs and John Lasseter, who were running Pixar at the time,
02:37lose their shit because everyone in the animation community knew that they were making a Bug's Life.
02:41And Lasseter said that he and Katzenberg had stayed very friendly, and while Lasseter was working on Toy Story, Katzenberg
02:46asked him, like, what are you doing next?
02:48And Lasseter described Bug's Life in detail.
02:51And Katzenberg kept asking questions about, like, hey, when's it going to be released?
02:54When's it going to be released?
02:54When's it going to be released?
02:55And then all of a sudden, Ants is announced.
02:57So DreamWorks and Disney, which was contracted Pixar at the time, keep going back and forth on release dates because
03:02they had originally scheduled Bug's Life against the Prince of Egypt, which was DreamWorks' debut movie.
03:06And they keep going back and forth.
03:08Katzenberg and Steve Jobs hate each other's guts at this point.
03:11They accuse each other of different things before the final release.
03:13But what happens is the movies come out, and they're so different that critics just don't care.
03:17Like, they're really just like, these are not really, like, they're similar in that they're both about bugs, but they're
03:22very dissimilar in tone and theme in generally, like, in most parts.
03:26Tone and theme, dissimilar plot in some ways are pretty similar.
03:30Some similar plot beats, but thematically just like, and also kind of going after completely different audiences too, which I
03:34think is a big part of it.
03:35Yeah, some would ask which audience, what audience is even one of these movies going after?
03:41Like, is there a real audience for one of these movies?
03:43So we'll start with the one that came out first, which is Ants.
03:46A rather neurotic ant tries to break from his totalitarian society while trying to win the affection of a princess
03:51he loves.
03:52Directed by Eric Darnell and Tim Johnson, who did the Madagascar franchise.
03:56Went on to do that anyway.
03:57Written by Chris and Paul Weitz, who directed and wrote American Pie.
04:01He also helped on Rogue One, among many other things.
04:04Stars Woody Allen, Dan Aykroyd, Anne Bancroft, Jane Curtin, Danny Glover, Gene Hackman, J-Lo, Sly Sloan, Sharon Stone, and
04:11Christopher Walken.
04:12Big voice cast on both of these.
04:13Yeah, really good voice cast.
04:14This one, I would say, arguably for the point in time they were at in the 90s, way bigger.
04:20Yeah.
04:21Composer, Harry Gregson-Williams and John Powell, both great composers, by the way.
04:24If you ever want to look up a great discography, theirs is amazing.
04:27This has a 92% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 2.9 on Letterboxd, DreamWorks movie.
04:33Cost is a weird range, but $42 to $105 million to make.
04:37Made $105 million.
04:37That's a huge, yeah.
04:38Big gap.
04:38Is it $42 or $105?
04:40And it made $171 million, released on October 2nd.
04:45So the fun facts for this one, the most commercially successful Woody Allen movie ever, which is funny.
04:50Makes sense.
04:51Uh, yeah.
04:52Yeah.
04:52Yeah.
04:53Makes a lot of sense.
04:54And there were six video games made for this movie.
04:57What?
04:57There were six ants made.
04:58Was it just a different, like, every system had a different kind of game?
05:03But, like, they kind of revamped them.
05:05There was a lot of racing games for this movie, which is strange.
05:07For ants?
05:08Yeah, for ants.
05:09A lot of ants racing games.
05:09Is there a moment in the movie where they get on a car?
05:12You know what I bet it was?
05:13I bet a lot of these kids' movies all had racing games, because I bet there was, like, probably just
05:17a code that you could flip around and just throw in some new models.
05:20Ant's Extreme Racing.
05:21You know what's so weird is you showing me that?
05:23There's a chance I had, like, a Game Boy Color game for ants.
05:25It was.
05:25That was a hand-me-down, probably.
05:27They used to just—I mean, this may be not the episode for this, but—
05:31They make a million for everything.
05:32But why did we stop doing video games for movies?
05:35I think because they take so long to make now.
05:37They take so long to make, but, like, the money is clearly there.
05:41I know.
05:41I used to love the video game tie-in movies.
05:43Or the movie tie-in.
05:44The video game industry is fucking enormous.
05:47Dude, Batman Begins had a video game.
05:49And it was awesome.
05:50I loved it.
05:50Dude, Van Helsing had a video game.
05:52It was better than a movie.
05:53Yeah.
05:54It was a great game.
05:54Captain America First Adventure.
05:56That was a fun tie-in game.
05:57Yeah.
05:58Toy Story.
05:59They had great games.
05:59Toy Story.
06:00Great games.
06:01Great games.
06:01Such good games.
06:02Phenomenal games.
06:02The Incredibles.
06:03Monsters, Inc.
06:03A lot of these animated movies had good games.
06:05Very.
06:06But we'll start with just ants.
06:07Robbie, your general thoughts on it.
06:09Now I'm just thinking of, like, modern Pixar.
06:11Like, let's play the Soul game.
06:14It's like Atari Hero.
06:16And Canto the game.
06:17And Canto might actually be fun.
06:19I liked ants.
06:20I wasn't like, oh my god, what an undiscovered classic.
06:24But, like, I enjoyed ants for sure on the rewatch.
06:28Much more adult than I remembered it being.
06:30I remember them saying, like, stop your bitching and crap and anus.
06:33And they're, like, dropping that.
06:35And then there's, like, war scenes that they're obviously, like, stylized after, like, saving Private Ryan and shit.
06:40Which, I think, that came out in 98.
06:43So, maybe it wasn't.
06:44Maybe it was just, maybe those are twin movies.
06:47But, yeah, I thought this was, I mean, to Gucci's point, I don't really know who the audience for this
06:52one was.
06:53Because if I'm showing this to a kid, there's a lot of things a kid isn't going to understand.
06:58And I kind of remember being a little bit afraid of this one when I was a kid.
07:01Yeah, it's, I think that's what it looks like.
07:05It's kind of scary for children.
07:06It's a little darker.
07:07Like, in A Bug's Life, you get, like, these bright blue ants.
07:10And this, you kind of just get brown a lot of, like, I mean, the termite scene is terrifying to
07:15this day.
07:15When they came out of the holes, I was like.
07:16Fucking acid.
07:17Acid.
07:17Just like the Resident Evil movie.
07:19Well, you haven't seen that yet, have you?
07:20No.
07:21Oh, well, there is an acid, like, throw-up zombie.
07:24And that's, like, what it reminded me of.
07:25Yeah.
07:26But I thought this was pretty good, actually.
07:29I did think it was funny.
07:31We'll get to the other Rotten Tomatoes score.
07:33Very similar.
07:35The critics were looking at them pretty much the same way.
07:39But, yeah, I enjoyed this one, can I say, more than A Bug's Life?
07:43Is this a spoiler?
07:44I don't think it's a spoiler.
07:45I think as an adult, this was better.
07:48I think if I were showing either movie to a kid, I would probably lean on A Bug's Life a
07:53little more.
07:54The sense of humor there.
07:55I mean, there's just, like, a lot of, like, class jokes and war jokes in this one.
08:00And that are unexpected to watch as an adult.
08:02Because I probably hadn't seen this in 15, 20 years.
08:06Yeah, I would say I'm with you.
08:08As a kid, I liked this movie more, too, though.
08:10So, I think part of it was.
08:11Really?
08:12Yeah, as a kid, I enjoyed this more.
08:13As an adult, I enjoyed it way more.
08:15Comrade Jack is a little five-year-old.
08:16I enjoyed it a lot more as an adult than I did as a kid.
08:19But I always liked this more than A Bug's Life.
08:21And I think part of it is just because there was more action to it.
08:23And it's a lot more, I don't know, visually stimulating at times.
08:27And it's definitely creepy looking.
08:28Very strange.
08:29But, like, that heart, that little bit of edge that it has, I have always enjoyed, at least when I
08:35was a child.
08:35And I re-watched it in, God knows, like, 15 years or something like that.
08:38But I liked it a lot more as an adult.
08:39I think it just freaked me out a little.
08:40When I was, like, a really young kid.
08:41When I was probably, like, eight or nine years old, I think I did like this movie.
08:45And I kind of came around to it.
08:47But, yeah, I think I liked both.
08:49But just watching them both as an adult, I was like, huh, that one, like, they're trying to make sure
08:54the adults taking their kids to see this are laughing.
08:57Bug's Life, they're not really focused on that.
08:59This was like watching, like, a pared-down Andor or something.
09:02It was like, yeah.
09:03It really is.
09:04I kind of really enjoyed the re-watch a lot.
09:06It's, like, obviously, like, a little hem-fisted on purpose.
09:08But, like, that I enjoyed within the scope of it.
09:10But I think the voice performances are all pretty great throughout it, I would say.
09:14I like the voice performances.
09:14It is funny, though.
09:15Like, you'd see, like, someone like Christopher Walken, I think, was, like, trying really hard.
09:19Yeah.
09:20And Sharon Stone was just like, I'm here for the money.
09:21I appreciated that.
09:22I appreciated that Walken was really putting on his voice.
09:24For, like, a three-second role.
09:26Yeah.
09:26The animation holds up really well in this, too.
09:28I think so, too.
09:29Like, the fact that this was DreamWorks, I was going into it thinking, like, am I going to notice, like,
09:32a big decline from A Bug's Life?
09:34Because I watched that one first.
09:35Yeah.
09:36And I didn't feel like there was.
09:37I felt like the animation was really good.
09:39And these are rushed movies.
09:40Yeah.
09:40Because they were trying to compete against each other.
09:41Exactly.
09:41And this one, you know, beats them by two months.
09:43Yeah.
09:43Yeah.
09:43So, I think I would say I enjoyed this a lot more as an adult than I did as a
09:47kid.
09:47But I still liked it as a kid more than A Bug's Life.
09:49But I do think that there's a lot of cool, I mean, just, like, interesting adult themes that they explore
09:54in a funny way within this, the idea of, like, an ant colony.
09:58Yeah.
09:58Which I think is smart.
09:59But how about you, Pidge?
10:00Yeah.
10:01I'm with you guys.
10:02And it's a lot more aspirational than A Bug's Life.
10:06For sure.
10:06Like, I get why A Bug's Life, I do think I leaned A Bug's Life as a kid.
10:11And I get why, like, I would still pick that, like you said, Robbie, to show it to a kid
10:16today.
10:16But, like, Ants is, like, doing things that I think Pixar has become known for, which is, like, taking big
10:22swings and going for more adult themes and really not trying to dumb it down for children.
10:27Now, here they could have maybe relayed the information in their themes a little better for, like, a five-year
10:33-old brain.
10:33Like, the words mean to production, I don't think mean much to a six-year-old.
10:38But they are words said in this movie.
10:41And I would agree with you all on the animation.
10:42I actually expected to really hate the way, just because, like, screenshots will, you know, show up on my timeline
10:48sometimes.
10:48You look at it and you're like, Jesus Christ.
10:50But, like, when you're watching the movie, the world is built out really well.
10:53I think A Bug's Life, for kids, it's, like, everything is geared more towards kids with A Bug's Life.
10:59Like, it's very – the split is so clear.
11:02A Bug's Life is very smooth and very bright and very vibrant.
11:06It kind of reminds me of, like, the little bouncing fruit videos that you'd put on for, like, a kid
11:10on an iPad.
11:10Which, like, I don't mean that as an insult.
11:12I mean that, like, in a good way.
11:14But, like, Ants is, like, maybe didn't have the budget animation-wise, you know, early in the years for DreamWorks.
11:19But they are, like, taking big swings with the design of the characters.
11:25They're giving the ants six legs, by the way, which A Bug's Life does not do.
11:28All those insects have four legs for the most part.
11:33But – and, like, the texturing and, like, they're playing with the light and the shadows.
11:37Like, there's – they're taking big swings on the script, the acting.
11:41Like, all the choices are big, which is kind of surprising for this fucking movie about ants for kids.
11:49For DreamWorks' second movie, too.
11:51Second movie, yeah.
11:51Ice Age was there first or no?
11:53It was Prince of Egypt.
11:54Oh, it was – yeah, you mentioned that.
11:55And, like, Woody Allen, they're also just – it's a Woody Allen movie in the heart of, like –
12:00Very Woody Allen-y, yeah.
12:01In the heart of, like, being a movie about, like, seizing the means of production.
12:05But also individualism is good and capitalism does have its place.
12:09And then there's this Woody Allen movie inside of it where he's playing an ant with, clearly, a Jewish mother
12:15who's fucked up his whole childhood.
12:17And, like, he's being a creep to the women.
12:20It's like, what the fuck is going on here?
12:22And so I don't know who this movie is for, but I did enjoy it more than A Bug's Life
12:25rewatching it.
12:26As, like, a 32-year-old man, I definitely enjoyed it.
12:29It's more interesting.
12:30Even the way they deal with the real world in ants I think is way, like, more fascinating.
12:35Like, seeing the magnifying glass come up and, like, it is, but I was, like, oh, shit, that's, like, fun.
12:41And, like, the zoom out at the end of you're in Central Park.
12:43Like, I thought that was a fun thought.
12:45And very Woody.
12:46Yeah.
12:46There's a lot of, like, really fun little things in ants where A Bug's Life was more of, like, the
12:52broad strokes were very good.
12:53But, again, just felt more kiddish.
12:56Yeah, A Bug's Life felt very boilerplate.
12:58And that's not, like, a problem when it comes to kids.
13:00No, it's just, like, the Pixar movies, like you said that, we know now.
13:03Yeah.
13:03Like, a lot of them do work for adults in the way that ants does.
13:06Yeah.
13:07So, A Bug's Life, a misfit ant looking for warriors to save his colony from greedy grasshoppers,
13:11recruits a group of bugs that turn out to be an inept circus troupe, directed by John Lasseter,
13:15who's obviously, like, the head of Pixar, more or less, in all facets.
13:19Same thing with Andrew Stanton, who wrote it.
13:20He wrote everything Pixar, essentially.
13:23Stars Dave Foley, Kevin Spacey, Julia Luby-Dreyfus, Hayden Panettiere, Phyllis Diller, Richard Kind, David Hyde-Pierce,
13:29Dennis Leary, another big cast, composed by Randy Newman.
13:33Same exact rating on Rotten Tomatoes, 92%.
13:3492.
13:35Both 92%.
13:36How weird is that?
13:37And this one, though, much higher with the Letterboxd community, 3.5 stars on Letterboxd.
13:41Huh, interesting.
13:42I think that's nostalgia?
13:43It's Pixar.
13:44Yeah.
13:44You can, like, Pixar has, like, a serious bump on it.
13:48So, it's, like, A24.
13:49Like, you just go through that studio, and it's just, like, everything's about .32 high.
13:54Yeah.
13:54Yeah.
13:54Like, I think Ratatouille's, like, the number five movie of all time on Letterboxd, really.
13:58Yeah.
13:58And this was Pixar for Disney Studios.
14:00The budget was, again, they give you a range, $40 to $120 million.
14:03Made, $363 million.
14:06Obviously, way bigger box office draw, because you get the kids involved, and the other movie was not very kid
14:09-friendly.
14:10Unfortunately, A Bug's Life, though, it's just, it's re-skinned Seven Samurai.
14:16Yes.
14:17Yes, it is.
14:18And this is a movie where I feel like, you know who I think watched this, and was like, this
14:21is a good idea?
14:22Dave Filoni.
14:23Yeah.
14:23Dave Filoni was like, this is so Filoni-coated.
14:26Holy fuck.
14:27Oh, my God.
14:28I think Dave Filoni watched this movie and was like, I can do this 18 times with 18 different kids.
14:32In different formats.
14:33I could do it in Avatar.
14:34I could do it in Star Wars.
14:35I could do it in cartoon Star Wars, live-action Star Wars.
14:38Kids can understand this.
14:39I'm going to do it a thousand times.
14:42But A Bug's Life, let's start with you, Gooch.
14:43What do you think of it?
14:44Yeah, I don't think that's a problem, because, I mean, like, you and me and Ken Jack, we watch a
14:47lot of shonen anime.
14:49All the time.
14:50It's all kind of derivative of that idea of, like, we've got to band together and rely on one another
14:55to achieve our goal.
14:57And, like, Ants has that in there, but it's, like, way more interrogative of that idea and, like, whether or
15:03not it always has a place.
15:05And I think A Bug's Life is, like, just very much, like, work with your friends and, like, together you
15:10guys can, like, yes.
15:13And I do think that's a plus to the movie.
15:16Like, I say Ants is a lot more like the Pixar movies of today.
15:21That's also a problem.
15:22Like, I do think Pixar does have a problem with always going for the appeal to the kids and adults,
15:30where it's, like, sometimes a kid's movie can just be a kid's movie.
15:33Like, it can just be a simple thing that will entertain the children and maybe have a very simple message
15:38for adults.
15:38But for a kid watching it for the first time, you don't know that.
15:41A four-year-old hasn't seen A Seven Samurai.
15:44Maybe not even seen something derivative of A Seven Samurai, which, you know, almost everything is, but they haven't seen
15:50a lot.
15:50They're fucking babies.
15:51So I think this movie does its job.
15:54It's just, like, which one do I look back on and, like, re-watching it?
15:58Do I take more away from and enjoy more?
16:00It's definitely Ants.
16:01But A Bug's Life, I get why I liked it more as a kid.
16:05Like, it's so poppy and vibrant.
16:07And I do think, like, it has its own strengths as an animation, you know, project.
16:13Like, especially, like, the birds coming in, like, the grasshoppers.
16:17I think the size of scale is really cool.
16:19It all does feel like it's all, like, one environment.
16:22Like, whereas, like, Ants, you get to go out and kind of see different places.
16:26Bug's Life, even when they leave, it all still feels exactly the same.
16:30Yeah.
16:31So I did like A Bug's Life.
16:32It's just – it is very boilerplate for a kid's movie.
16:36Yeah.
16:36I'm right there with you.
16:37I think I just find myself a lot during this movie just kind of zoning out.
16:40Yeah.
16:40I'm just, like, not very –
16:41I totally agree.
16:42Not really engaged at all.
16:44I agree with you.
16:45The colors-wise, like, yeah, super vibrant, all that stuff.
16:47I just think it's, like, a C-tier Pixar movie.
16:49Yeah.
16:49And I never – like, even when I was a kid, like, when I'm thinking, like, name your favorite Pixar
16:53movies, I would never say A Bug's Life.
16:54Nope.
16:54It would never even be in the same stratosphere as some of their best work.
16:57I think it's –
16:58Even when there was only, like, eight movies, it still was, like, A Bug's Life.
17:01It would be the worst one.
17:02It would be that and, like, Good Dinosaur.
17:03Super important because it kick-started and launched everything else.
17:07It helped with everything, yeah.
17:08But it was always towards the bottom.
17:09I had, like, the clamshell VHS.
17:11Oh, yeah.
17:11And at the beginning, they would have the Pixar short, which for this one was Jerry's game, was the chess
17:16one with the old man that fixes Woody in Toy Story 2 playing chess.
17:20And I was one of those kids where if I was watching Batman the Animated Series, I wanted to, like,
17:24sit in front of the TV with Batman and the Joker and, like, play with them.
17:27So I would put on the Bug's Life VHS and just bring up a chess set.
17:32And I didn't know how to play chess.
17:33I was, like, three years old.
17:34And I would just watch that short holding the chess pieces like they were action figures.
17:38So that's, like, my big memory of A Bug's Life.
17:40I think it's good for sure.
17:42It's, like, a good kids movie but, again, doesn't hold up as well for adults.
17:45I think the biggest thing about this that's a pro over the other ones, I think it has better supporting
17:50characters.
17:51I think, like, the gang of misfits that he finds at the circus and they come help.
17:55I think they're, like, more fun and more funny than a lot of the supporting characters in Ants.
18:00I do love the bees in Ants.
18:01I loved the caterpillar as a kid.
18:03The caterpillar, exactly.
18:04Like, I thought he was the funniest guy ever.
18:06Ever.
18:07Like, the funniest character to me, I would be like, yeah, fat caterpillar.
18:11That line, so funny.
18:13The scene when they first go to the circus and the bug gets, like, burnt to a crisp.
18:16Yeah.
18:17And they show that.
18:18Super funny.
18:18The Flea by Ratzenberger or whatever.
18:20It's so funny.
18:21Yeah, really good.
18:21Even when he – the beginning – both movies start the same way.
18:24Like, in Ants they drop the ball and in this one he drops, like, the food supply, the sacrifice or
18:30whatever.
18:31And the noise that Flick makes when he fucking looks around and he goes, ah!
18:35He, like, lets out a scream.
18:36It's so funny.
18:37It actually got, like, an actual laugh out of me.
18:40But, yeah, towards the – I don't even want to say the third act.
18:44Like, the second act, like, the – after the circus, I started.
18:48I'm just like, ah.
18:49Yeah, started zoning out a little bit.
18:50Which isn't great for a movie that's 90 minutes long.
18:52Exactly, yeah.
18:53And fun for kids, too.
18:54They're both around – I think Ants is actually even shorter.
18:57Ants was, like, 100.
18:58It was a breeze.
18:59They're, like, 123 or something.
19:00Yeah, breeze through.
19:01And I do think that's part of it, though.
19:03It was, like, maybe the way we look at kids' movies now is a little bit different.
19:06We look at more of grasping the kids', like, ADHD attention.
19:09And now it's a little – and then I think it was a little more, like, they could trust
19:12them to kind of sit with something a little bit more.
19:14Yeah.
19:15But I feel like even Toy Story did a way better job of that.
19:17Like, all the other movies in this era did a way better job of that.
19:19The Kevin Spacey villain is also a pretty intimidating villain.
19:22It's probably the best voice performance across the two movies, right?
19:26When he shows up –
19:27I've seen Gene Hackman a lot.
19:28I think he's a really good dance.
19:28Gene Hackman is really good.
19:29But that Spacey scene when he shows up at the beginning and is, like, where's the food?
19:33And he's, like, interrogating them and giving them the deadline.
19:35Yeah.
19:36That's, like, another scene that I think as a kid I was scared of.
19:39The grasshopper, like, the psycho one, I liked.
19:40Yeah.
19:40It was really good.
19:41There's stuff in this that I think works for a kid's movie.
19:43It's just very – like, to Gucci's point, it is very boilerplate.
19:46It is just very – safe is maybe the wrong word.
19:48It's just, like, there's nothing in that I would come away from a bug slide thinking, like,
19:52wow, that's really cool.
19:52It's really inventive.
19:53That's really interesting.
19:54There were actually times in this where I was, like, the animation looks very dated that I didn't
19:58think it as much in ants.
19:59Like, for A Bug's Life, there are textures that look very, like, flat at times.
20:02Yeah.
20:03Or, like, video game-y even when they're, like – some of the, like, pupils in some of
20:08the bugs look like that.
20:09Yeah.
20:09I don't know if you guys –
20:10They're, like – yeah, they're almost, like –
20:11Almost, like, pixelated.
20:13Pixelated and, like, blocky maybe is the word.
20:17It's, like, Pixar has, like, the scale and the colors.
20:21I would also say, like, the motion is very fluid.
20:23Yeah.
20:23And, like, you'll look in the background and, like, characters will be moving differently.
20:27Yes.
20:27Yeah.
20:28But, like, in ants, it has, like, the texture, the lighting, the, like – it really grabs
20:32your attention.
20:33But you look in the background, every single ant is doing the exact same motion.
20:36They're doing the same motion.
20:37The dance scene.
20:37Yes.
20:38They're all doing, like, the exact same motion.
20:40And, like, the movement is maybe sometimes a little, like, jaggy.
20:44Yeah.
20:45So it's weird that they – they both succeed but in their own ways, I'd say.
20:50Yeah.
20:50And fail in their own ways, too.
20:52But I have a tough time because it's so early in 3D animation to really hold it against either
20:56of these movies.
20:57Just because they were both rushing.
20:58They were both rushing trying to get the deadline, beat each other to this punch, I guess, so
21:01to speak.
21:01And that's, I think, easier even with live action, for sure, than doing 3D animation and, like,
21:06a bleeding edge sort of art at the time.
21:08So we'll go through the sort of categories here.
21:11Actually, before that, before I even forget, we kind of touched on it a little bit, just,
21:14like, how similar are these actual movies I think is a good thing to just –
21:18Yeah.
21:18I mean, in terms of, like, this outcast ant has to go and do something that saves the
21:25colony after he fucked up in the beginning and brings back and becomes the hero.
21:28And he's individualist.
21:29He doesn't want to do whatever else does.
21:30Individualist.
21:30He gets the princess in the end.
21:31He's in love with the princess.
21:32Like, all of that, I was like, on paper, you list all that out.
21:37I don't know which movie you're talking about.
21:38But then thematically –
21:39And then the themes are definitely different.
21:41Couldn't be – they're hunting completely different audiences.
21:44They are thematically on opposite ends of the spectrum.
21:46So, like, that, I think –
21:47Ants feels like it's for a 10-year-old.
21:49A Bug's Life feels like it's for a 5-year-old.
21:51Yeah.
21:52Yeah, that's fair.
21:52I mean, even older, I'd say, for ants.
21:54Yeah.
21:54Like, it's for, like, I would say a family night with, like, a teenager.
21:57Yeah.
21:58Because, like, if you're an adult –
21:59I think a teenager would get a kick out of some of the jokes in ants.
22:01Yeah.
22:01I've got a kick out of some of the jokes in ants.
22:03If you're a parent watching with your kid, you'd get a ton of laughs out of it.
22:05Way more than watching Bug's Life, for sure.
22:08Yeah.
22:08The Sylvester Stallone ant was really funny.
22:10Really so funny.
22:11I love the line – probably my favorite line, the line I laughed at the most in ants is when
22:14–
22:15not Flick.
22:17What's the name of the –
22:18Z?
22:18Z?
22:19Z?
22:19Z.
22:20Z.
22:20I knew it was a letter.
22:21Yeah.
22:21When he's trying to get Sylvester Stallone to swap out with him, and he's like,
22:26you can get into so much trouble for impersonating an officer.
22:28And everyone's listening in.
22:29He's like, you can get in trouble for even listening to someone talk about it.
22:31They all go to sleep.
22:32And they all go back down at the same time.
22:34That was really funny.
22:35That was funny.
22:35That was almost like a family guy joke.
22:36It was.
22:37That was really good.
22:38That got me too.
22:39Yeah.
22:39There were a lot of good lines like that.
22:40Just little quick hitters.
22:41Yeah.
22:41That I think could work for a kid, but definitely work for an adult.
22:44Yeah.
22:45And the other one, obviously, we reverse it, and it's just a count of everything's directed
22:48pretty squarely in a child, I would say.
22:51But I think we're on the same page.
22:52It's very – like, on paper, sure.
22:54Got similarities.
22:55Thematically, just totally different.
22:56But we'll start out with the categories now.
23:00Starting with plot and the writing.
23:01Which one do you think was better, Robbie?
23:03I think ants.
23:04I think, especially even dialogue, like the quippy dialogue and everything in ants, that
23:10definitely appealed to me more.
23:11I zoned out less.
23:12I would go ants.
23:13Yeah.
23:14Gooch.
23:15Yeah.
23:15This might be the easiest call for me, to be honest, between these two movies in terms
23:19of categories.
23:20I think the script in ants is really just a big level above a bug's life.
23:25And I did say, like, a bug's life has its place, like, in terms of, like, being very
23:28accessible for children.
23:29But I think ants, with a couple tweaks, if you take out some of the swearing and maybe
23:34change around, like, means of production into something more palatable for children,
23:38like, this is a really fucking good script.
23:40Like, really, really, really good.
23:42And I think it just lands it pretty good.
23:45But that's above a bug's life for me.
23:48Yeah, I'd go with ants as well.
23:49I just think it's sharper, funnier.
23:52Woody Allen also wrote part of the script.
23:54He reworked the character for himself.
23:56Because he's like – I think at least from what I read, like, he's like –
23:59he read the characters, like, all the lines for himself.
24:00And he's like, I need to kind of switch this to make it fit how I – my sense of
24:03humor
24:03a little bit.
24:04Also, what's the public perception on Woody Allen at this point in 1998?
24:08I think he's already a creep.
24:08Do people already know?
24:09Well, I think he was always a creep.
24:12But in terms of, like, did they know that he was not sleeping with his stepdaughter?
24:16I don't think he was sleeping with his stepdaughter at that point.
24:19No, I don't think she would have been.
24:20Woody Allen's a big blind spot for me in movies and kind of real life.
24:24Like, I had only recently – I knew he was a creep, but I only recently read everything.
24:28The late 90s, he's fine.
24:29Because he was still making movies for another 10, 15 years.
24:31I was thinking, he cast him in a fucking kid's movie.
24:32Like, as the lead.
24:33Woody Allen's public perception.
24:37That's Chad G.B. Teen.
24:38He's 98.
24:39He's definitely fine because he's making more movies for another decade, I would say.
24:42I feel like it was, like, somewhere around, like, the mid-2010s, maybe a little bit lower,
24:46that it was, like, kind of started to switch on him.
24:48We don't want to be around this guy as much.
24:50Yeah.
24:50But then again, a lot of actors that we like.
24:53Yeah, Shallow Man, Selena Gomez did a movie with him, like, 10 years ago.
24:56Yeah, and, like, ScarJo to this day, I think, still defends him to the death.
24:59Like, people –
25:00A lot of people do.
25:01Yeah, a lot of actors.
25:01The daughter stuff had come out already.
25:04That was –
25:04In my 98.
25:04That was 92.
25:05Oh, wow.
25:07But people were still – still Ryder and Dine?
25:09They were still riding with fucking Seinfeld at that time.
25:11He's a good voice actor.
25:11I don't think his reputation was great, but Hollywood was still working with him.
25:15Yeah, I mean, Seinfeld was picking up his girlfriend at high school every day at this point in time.
25:18Yeah, yeah.
25:19Weird.
25:20So we're all on it.
25:21I think, again, just – I think the writing, a lot sharper, plot-wise, just more interesting.
25:27It just has a little more to say, which is fine because, again, kids' movie, you're not trying to do,
25:30say, a ton.
25:32Yeah.
25:32So now for the acting, or in this case, voice acting, Gooch, which one do you think was better?
25:37They're both pretty good, but I do think Ants has more –
25:41and it really comes down to the – I made fun of the Woody Allen performance because it is just
25:46– it's Woody Allen.
25:47But as a lead performance, I do think it outshines the lead in –
25:51Dave Foley, yeah.
25:52Dave Foley, which is like that's the big difference here is like who do I want to be with for
25:59the entire movie?
25:59And while I do find Woody Allen grating, I find him entertaining, which is where I landed with that performance.
26:05And I do like the other – like you said, the Sly performance, very funny.
26:10Sharon Stone, while like is bored to be there, I do think that's like purposeful.
26:14It fits the role.
26:15Yeah.
26:15What about – was it Barbados?
26:17Or as Danny Glover, yeah.
26:19I think that performance is great when he's sitting there as just the head.
26:22Yeah.
26:23Like that's really funny stuff.
26:25Even when he's –
26:25That was so funny.
26:26When they're in the line and he's like, what is that, your first day?
26:28And he keeps making the jokes like, yeah, I'm on like a trial or whatever, a trial run.
26:32Like I thought he was really good too.
26:34That scene, that battle scene is fucking crazy.
26:35That is so fucking funny when he's like just holding the head and he's like, you're going to be all
26:41right.
26:42I'm going to find your body.
26:43And then he looks around and there's the bodies everywhere.
26:45That was a good cut.
26:46It's funny.
26:46Very funny.
26:47Yeah.
26:48And then you get the Hackman.
26:50You get the Ackroyd.
26:51Yeah.
26:51I do think Anne Bancroft is the mother, which always plays.
26:56I do think it's just a better ensemble.
26:59And A Bug's Life has, I think, the best performance in Kevin Spacey, but it doesn't have like the full
27:04roster.
27:06Yeah.
27:07Actually, Robby, you first.
27:08I also would go Ants.
27:09I do – I love like some – again, some of the side characters in A Bug's Life, but they
27:15don't bring it up enough for me where I would put it above Ants there.
27:17Yeah.
27:18I feel like if I'm trying to like go down the list of like which characters I like more, like
27:21I do think like the Woody Allen type of phenotype or whatever type of character I don't generally like.
27:28I don't like whiny – I mean I don't like Ted Mosby's basically, which is very similar to what Woody
27:34Allen typically is kind of playing.
27:36And I just don't particularly love that type of character.
27:39His delivery of it is good.
27:40I also kind of like some of the side characters in Bug's Life.
27:43Like I think Dennis Leary is doing a great job.
27:45Dennis Leary, I think, is hilarious.
27:46Dennis Leary is great.
27:47I forget who –
27:48Richard Kine, as we mentioned, is great.
27:49Richard Kine is amazing.
27:50Yeah.
27:51And Kevin Spacey, I was about to say God bless him.
27:54Not going to God bless him.
27:54He's just – he's doing a great job.
27:56I mean, yeah.
27:57Like say what you – I mean the guy is a fucking criminal and a villain, but like he can
28:01play villains.
28:02Like nobody's fucking business.
28:03Like in terms of my lifetime, there's probably nobody better.
28:06He's great.
28:07Julie Lee Dreyfuss is good.
28:08Like everyone's – I don't think there's really a bad voice performance.
28:10I think Dave Foley's character in general is unmemorable, and that's not a fault of him versus his voice acting.
28:16Yeah.
28:17It's just like the character is not that great.
28:19Yeah.
28:20But I think if I'm thinking which voice roles are more memorable to me, I think the walk-in, going
28:26back and forth with Gene Hackman is so good.
28:29Yeah.
28:29Sylvester Stallone is great.
28:30And I read something.
28:31I don't know if this is true.
28:32Apparently, they offered that role to Schwarzenegger, and he asked for money, and Sloan came in and said, I'll do
28:40it for free.
28:40Oh.
28:41Which would be –
28:42Easy choice.
28:42I don't know if that's true.
28:43It would be a real easy choice.
28:45So I think I would go with Ants as well.
28:47So we are straight up 6-0.
28:48I also love the bees in Ants that come down, and they're like – they got those British accents.
28:53They're like, oh, no, they're poor.
28:55Yes.
28:56They're like fucking – I don't know how to explain it.
28:59And then that joke, too, of the girl dying right after sex.
29:03Oh, yeah.
29:04That's a really funny joke.
29:06Very funny.
29:07Now, for the technicals, which I'll start with, I'll say there's parts of both movies that look great.
29:14I'm definitely more on the team of Ants just because the sort of texture of – like you guys were
29:19mentioning, a lot of stuff is flat in Bugs' life, I would say for sure, which I think is to
29:23the point of a kid's movie, it's kind of what you want.
29:25You kind of just want big, popping primary colors.
29:27You don't want too much – like anything grating or too much friction.
29:30You just want a lot of like here's big, shiny thing to look at, which I guess is purposeful.
29:34But I think in Ants, it just looks better, especially when they're doing a big battle scene or a giant
29:39march or you're seeing this big expanded view of the colony or they're doing like the dance or whatever.
29:44Like all that stuff I think just looks in general better to me.
29:47So I would go with Ants.
29:48How about you, Robbie?
29:49For just the aesthetic, the visual?
29:51This is technical.
29:52So this is like your – like everything you're looking at or hearing more.
29:57I mix because I think I like the general look of a Bugs' Life more and like I like the
30:02colors of that more.
30:03I think the animation is almost better in Ants.
30:05Yeah.
30:06Like then again, we did talk about how Ants – like the background animation is not as good.
30:11I think I would go with Bugs' Life for that to be honest.
30:13Bugs' Life?
30:14Yeah.
30:14Yeah, it's tough.
30:15It's – not to harp too much on anime today.
30:20But Kinja, you'd probably agree with me here.
30:23It's just like – you know how like new anime, like all – even the shitty shows like have like
30:27very fluid, very clean animation.
30:30Very crisp, yeah.
30:30Very crisp.
30:31And like I get that that is supposed to be better and like they've spit more on it.
30:35There's more people working on these shows than ever before.
30:37But like I go back and I look at like Dragon Ball Z's animation.
30:40It's not the cleanest but like in terms of like the construction and like the choice of colors is very
30:49deliberate and the way they move is very deliberate and the design of the characters is very deliberate.
30:55And while it maybe doesn't have the amount of workforce behind it to make it look as sharp and clean
31:00as possible, it holds up so well because of like the artistic vision behind it.
31:05And I feel that with Ants.
31:06I feel that that split is here.
31:08Like on release, I do think a Bug's Life – if you'd asked me as a seven-year-old, I'd
31:12be like, yeah, a Bug's Life looks better.
31:15But it hasn't aged better.
31:17Ants has certainly aged better in the animation I think.
31:20So I lean Ants.
31:21It's almost like – and I don't know if this is a good analogy but like it's almost like looking
31:25like a muscle car versus like a smart car.
31:27Yeah.
31:27I know that this is in every way technically probably better.
31:31Yeah.
31:31But I like the look of the muscle car more despite inefficiencies, despite whatever.
31:35Like I like that look more.
31:37So you're going to go with Ants as well.
31:39Yeah.
31:40The texturing really was just so impressive for the time I think.
31:43Yeah.
31:44It's like a bleeding edge art at this point.
31:46Yeah.
31:46And they were all, again, being heavily rushed to completion, which is insane.
31:51Now for directing, we'll start out with you, Robbie.
31:54Which one do you think was a better directed movie?
31:56Which is always hard to say with animation.
31:58I know it is.
31:59It's really hard to say with animation.
32:01Like I'm trying to think of specific scenes.
32:03Like I might give this one to Bugs Life too because I feel like the way people would move –
32:11like I'm thinking of like animated like blocking.
32:13Like that first Kevin Spacey scene comes to mind right away too where they come down and he walks around
32:19the colony and everything.
32:20Yeah.
32:21I would probably give that to a Bugs Life as well.
32:23I even think the circus scene when you meet all of those characters, I think that's really well like directed.
32:28Yeah.
32:28There's a lot of scenes in Bugs Life that I think are put together better than scenes in Ants.
32:31Like if I'm trying to like go like what's my favorite looking – or what's my favorite scene or what's
32:36my favorite moment or whatever.
32:37The termite scene in Ants is really well directed.
32:39It is.
32:39The fight scene I would say is probably my biggest like for that time period.
32:43For 19 – they're animating this in 1996 and 7.
32:47For them to be able to do that I think is super, super impressive.
32:50But like you're saying like this actual – like as far as it applies to an actual moment in the
32:54movie.
32:55Yeah.
32:55I am definitely more impressed by Bugs Life.
32:57So I guess I would say if you're looking for like traditional filmmaking techniques, I think you get more of
33:05that in Bugs Life.
33:06I'm more impressed by the script in Ants and what they wrote and all that stuff.
33:08But I think like as far as like what I'm looking at and like how I'm digesting it, I think
33:14I'd go with Bugs Life too.
33:14Even when he drops the food in the beginning, I think that moment you feel like a oh no right
33:20away even more so than like the one in Ants has kind of played as well.
33:23Whatever.
33:23He drops the ball all the time.
33:25Yeah.
33:25I think I would say like if I'm – it's so weird to try and like separate the directing from
33:30the animation.
33:31Like editing I think there's a lot more work you could do for Bugs Life for sure.
33:35But as far as like what is directed and put together from the animation department and from the director here
33:40at Lasseter, I think I'd say I'm slightly more impressed by Bugs Life.
33:42Yeah.
33:43I was trying to find this shot from a Bugs Life because I'm with you all.
33:48I think a Bugs Life direction-wise is better.
33:51Yeah.
33:52There we go.
33:52Like this scene.
33:53Yeah.
33:53That looks great.
33:54I mean literally like I was pulling up the Dune part too like tribunal scene.
33:59Like it – which is I think a reference to like an earlier like 1930s European movie that I have
34:04not seen.
34:06But they're doing – there's like a really cool sense of scale within Bugs Life.
34:10And Robbie, you are right.
34:12Like the blocking is there.
34:13Like there is like serious direction in terms of like how the camera is moving.
34:17There's obviously no camera.
34:18But like the hypothetical camera moves around a room or around people's like – or insects' shoulders.
34:24Yeah.
34:25It's weirdly like well shot.
34:28And you can tell like this was probably storyboarded longer from like what you were bringing up earlier.
34:34Like there was probably more time to put these shots together and really put thought into how everything was going
34:39to be constructed and look in the final product.
34:42So I do lean a Bugs Life here.
34:45And then lastly, this is where you can give whichever movie a little bit more of a leeway.
34:49This is entertainment value, which movie you were just generally more entertained by.
34:52Start with you, Gooch.
34:54Yeah.
34:54It's ants for me.
34:56But this is like the rare split where I think as a kid I definitely would have said a Bugs
35:01Life.
35:02Yeah, for sure.
35:02For sure.
35:03But like coming to it later, it's certainly ants.
35:08I was with you all.
35:10Like a Bugs Life, the middle act, I just really – I glazed over hard, hard.
35:15Hard.
35:15And ants really never lost me.
35:17I actually at one point checked how much time was left on a Bugs Life.
35:21Yeah, that's bad.
35:21I didn't do that on ants.
35:22For a kid's movie that's like really short.
35:23And I'll tell you what, I was like 45 minutes in.
35:25I was like, oh, I got half left.
35:27Yeah.
35:27Okay.
35:28I was kind of shocked.
35:28Yeah.
35:29Yeah.
35:29I'm definitely – I'm 100% with Gooch there.
35:31And ants, it was like the movie's just – it was just over.
35:34I was just like, oh, shit.
35:35Yeah.
35:35We're here.
35:36I was like the third act started to happen.
35:37I was like, oh, my God.
35:38The pacing's a lot better.
35:39Yeah.
35:39Yeah.
35:39I'm with – I think I'm with you guys as well.
35:41So we're going to be all ants here just like – but again, kids to adults split.
35:46Like if I had a five-year-old, I'm showing them Bugs Life.
35:48I'm not sure I'm ants.
35:48100%.
35:48I think you would find a Bugs Life funnier.
35:50But then when they grow up, I'd be like, hey, watch ants.
35:51And they probably like that way more than they ever liked Bugs Life.
35:53I'd be surprised if there was a kid that liked one of these and completely didn't like the other.
35:58Yeah.
35:58Yeah, for sure.
36:00So that would mean our final score here would be 12 to 3 in favor of ants, which I felt
36:05pretty strongly that this is going to be a very pro-ants panel.
36:08Even though like you are definitely more of a Pixar person.
36:10Yeah, yeah.
36:11I thought, well, we were going to have Clemmer in here, and I was waiting for him to –
36:16He's a communist?
36:17That's what I was afraid of.
36:18I was thinking the whole time we were reviewing it, like what Clemmer would be saying if he were sitting
36:22here.
36:22Oh, my God.
36:22Because I've done 100 reviews with him, super critics.
36:24Every time we brought up like, well, it's a kid's movie, so you've got to give it leeway.
36:27He'd be like, well, you don't really have to give it leeway because of a kid's movie.
36:31He would be pulling out the fangs for the anti-communism.
36:34No question about it.
36:36But we are –
36:37I don't know about the messaging here.
36:39I don't know how I feel about the messaging.
36:40You're trying to doctrinate kids.
36:41There's fucking Mao Zedong up here.
36:43I won't lie, though.
36:44I did remember ants as being like way more communist, and it I think like does play both sides pretty
36:49fucking well.
36:50It kind of like –
36:51It drops them into like a communist regime and then critiques it, but also lifts up like the things like,
36:57hey, maybe this isn't so bad.
36:59So it kind of like plays both sides, which is like – still can't believe they were trying to do
37:04that in a kid's movie in 1998, but fuck it.
37:08Fuck it.
37:08So the question we usually ask is if you flip the cast of these movies, which movie would be better?
37:13Oh.
37:13I think Bugs Life would get a lot better.
37:15It would.
37:16I think it would, too.
37:17The voice cast is stronger in ants.
37:18And I think Bugs Life does have a good voice cast, but ants I think is way better, yeah.
37:22Yeah.
37:22Yeah, I don't know what a Bugs Life cast could do, and maybe Kevin Spacey would do good work just
37:30because he's –
37:30He'd be good.
37:31Kevin Spacey and –
37:32He'd be good as the Hackman ant for sure.
37:33Yeah.
37:34But like outside of that, I don't know really how they –
37:36Richard Kind as the Christopher Walken ant, Colonel Cunner or whatever.
37:40Yeah.
37:40I don't know.
37:40Who's playing the Slice the Lone part if you swap those?
37:44Good question.
37:45Leary.
37:46Leary.
37:46Yeah.
37:47Dennis Leary would be good at that.
37:48I think it would be bad.
37:49I mean, even like Ratzenberger would fit in, I think, most of those spots, too.
37:53But yeah, no.
37:54A Bugs Life would be significantly improved, I think.
37:56Yeah.
37:57I think it's a good spot, too, just kind of look at a retrospective on Pixar and DreamWorks.
38:01Pixar obviously won this war, like, pretty heavily over the next, like, I would say decade or so.
38:07Like, after Bugs Life, they do Toy Story 2, Banger, Monsters, Inc., Banger, Finding Nemo, Incredibles, Cars, Ratatouille, WALL-E,
38:15Up, Toy Story 3, years where we go down a little bit, Cars 2,
38:19Brave, Monsters University, Inside Out, great.
38:22Monsters University, also very good.
38:24Good movie.
38:24I really like that one.
38:26No, no, no.
38:26God, no.
38:27That's, like, one of the best ones ever.
38:28Good Dinosaur.
38:30Finding Door.
38:31Cars 3.
38:33Coco, great.
38:34Incredibles 2.
38:36Toy Story 4.
38:37Onward.
38:38Yeah, that's where everything.
38:39This is where.
38:40Yeah.
38:40Yeah, this is where it goes down a little bit.
38:41Onward, Soul, Luca, Turning Red, which I like.
38:45Soul and Luca.
38:45Yeah, these really aren't bad movies.
38:47It's just, like, you go back and you look at that 10-year run.
38:50Not just Slider.
38:50Jesus.
38:52Elemental, Lightyear, Inside Out 2, Elio, Hoppers, which we liked Hoppers for what it's worth.
38:57Toy Story 5 is solid.
39:00And then to have, coming up, Gatto, the movie, I believe that is with Mark Ruffalo.
39:04Yeah.
39:04The cat movie.
39:05Ghost Market, which I don't know.
39:07I didn't even hear about that until I was just seeing this just now.
39:09Incredibles 3 and Coco 2, which are coming out over the next period, or the next, like,
39:14two, three years.
39:15These, I would say, it's been a tougher run for the last 10 years for Pixar, for sure.
39:21But at the same time, again, they obviously won this war.
39:23DreamWorks, in the meantime, they did.
39:24Yeah, I mean, no one's like, I'm going to go out and see the new DreamWorks animation
39:27movie is the thing.
39:29No, they're much more of a wait-and-see type of attitude.
39:31There's one out right now, but it's supposed to be very good, and no one's fucking seeing
39:34it.
39:35Yeah.
39:35I actually mixed it up.
39:36I thought that Prince of Egypt beat Ants to the market, but it came in a month later.
39:40I forgot about that.
39:41So they switched the release date of Prince of Egypt because of when they scheduled Bugs
39:45Because they needed to be to Bugs Life, yeah.
39:47So now, they moved Prince of Egypt to December, which was after Bugs Life, but moved Ants
39:52ahead of time.
39:52So Ants is actually their debut in animation.
39:55So it was Ants, Prince of Egypt, Road to El Dorado, which I like.
39:58I like that one.
39:59Yeah.
39:59Never seen it.
40:00Chicken Run, which I also like.
40:01I love Chicken Run.
40:02Joseph King of Dreams, which I actually never, I don't really remember at all.
40:05I'm not sure.
40:05I mean, it's the story.
40:07It's the religious, whatever.
40:08Shrek, which obviously, that's like their flagship.
40:11Yep.
40:11It's the first, first, best animated feature.
40:13Yeah.
40:14Shrek, Spirit, Stallion of the Cimarron.
40:17Pretty good.
40:18Pretty good.
40:18I never do that at the subtitle.
40:20I always start with Spirit.
40:21Oh, yeah.
40:22Sinbad, Legend of the Seven Seas, which I also like.
40:24Yeah.
40:24Really liked that one when I was a kid.
40:25Shrek 2, which I like.
40:27Loved that one.
40:27I think it's the best Shrek movie.
40:28Shark Tale, which we will talk about alongside Finding Nemo eventually.
40:32Yep.
40:33Madagascar, which I like.
40:34Legendary.
40:35Wallace and Gromit, which I'm not a big Wallace and Gromit guy.
40:38Love Wallace and Gromit.
40:39You guys don't like Wallace and Gromit?
40:41No, I don't like Wallace and Gromit guy.
40:42I don't like that animation style.
40:43Oh, I love a claymation.
40:45Oh, I used to make claymation.
40:47Anything in claymation just really bothers me.
40:50You used to love claymation.
40:50I still do.
40:50I like stop motion, but claymation bothers me.
40:53Over the Hedge, which I think was disrespectful.
40:55I think that's an okay movie.
40:56That has an audience, for sure.
40:57I thought that was good.
40:58I remember when that came out, that felt like it was a big movie.
41:01Yeah.
41:01Flushed Away.
41:02Loved Flushed Away.
41:04Shrek the Third, which I like.
41:05That one's got an audience with women.
41:07Yeah.
41:07Women love the Flushed Away rat.
41:09Bee Movie, Kung Fu Panda, Madagascar again, and Monsters vs. Aliens.
41:14It's just funny, this is where they started making money.
41:16Yeah.
41:16Yeah.
41:17How to Train Your Dragon, Shrek Forever After, Megamind, which Megamind hasn't seen.
41:21I like Megamind a lot.
41:23I do, too.
41:23Kung Fu Panda 2, Puss in Boots, which is okay, but then we're going to get to the great-
41:28Yeah, the second one.
41:28The Last Wish.
41:31Madagascar 3, Rise of the Guardians.
41:34The Owls of Gahool.
41:35This is actually different.
41:36Yeah, different one.
41:37Different thing.
41:38The Rise of the Guardians was a holiday movie.
41:40It was like Santa meets the Tooth Fairy meets the Easter Bunny.
41:44Yeah.
41:45What?
41:45Not great.
41:46I believe that might have been written by-
41:48Was that written by-
41:49Owls of Gahool is Legend of the Guardians.
41:51Legend of the Guardians, the Guardians of the Gahool, or whatever, yeah.
41:53The Croods, which I think the Croods is okay.
41:56I never saw a Croods.
41:56No, I don't think I saw that one.
41:57Turbo, which I don't care for.
41:59I didn't see that one.
41:59Mr. Peabody and Sherman, which I don't remember at all.
42:02Pangos of Madagascar.
42:03That was a TV show, right?
42:04That was a good one.
42:05Pangos of Madagascar.
42:06No, I don't think so.
42:07I think they did both.
42:08Film.
42:09They did a movie?
42:09I think they did both, yeah.
42:11Forgot about that.
42:12I remember the show.
42:13I liked the show.
42:14Home, Kung Fu Panda 3, Trolls.
42:16Oh, man, Trolls.
42:17Trolls World.
42:18Remember the song?
42:19Wait, no, that's from something else.
42:21Trolls World Tour.
42:23Can't stop the film.
42:23I got this feeling.
42:25I thought we were going to talk about the-
42:26Down in my feet.
42:27What's the thing Zendaya was in?
42:28There was like Abominable Snowmen.
42:30Oh, Zendaya's Michi.
42:31Yeah, Zendaya's Michi.
42:32What is that?
42:33Bigfoot.
42:33Bigfoot.
42:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:34LeBron is-
42:35Or was it Littlefoot?
42:37Yeah.
42:38You might be right, yeah.
42:38Yeah, Littlefoot.
42:39Captain Underpants, the first epic movie.
42:41How to Train Your Dragon Again.
42:42Abominable.
42:43Abominable.
42:44That's what it was.
42:44That was it.
42:45Was it?
42:46Or was that a twin movie?
42:47I think it was Littlefoot.
42:49Trolls World Tour.
42:51Croods, The New Age.
42:52Spirit Untamed.
42:54The Bad Guys, The Boss Baby.
42:56Puss in Boots, The Last Witch, which again, we are shooters for.
43:00Ruby Gilman, Teenage Kraken, Trolls Band Together, Orion and the Dark, Kung Fu Panda 4, The Wild
43:07Robot, which Wild Robot, I think is a great Return of 4.
43:09Great, really good.
43:09Great, great movie.
43:10Dog Man, which is also good.
43:12Didn't see it.
43:13How to Train Your Dragon, the live action, which I guess they counted on me through the
43:16banner.
43:17The Bad Guys 2, which I haven't seen so long.
43:20I believe my stomach doctor's son worked on the animation for that movie.
43:24For her, in fact, for everyone out there.
43:26Forgotten Island, which was in September, September 25th.
43:29Yeah, that's out right now.
43:30And apparently very, very good, but no one is seeing it.
43:34It kind of looks Spider-verse-y with the animation.
43:36It also is another kind of like, I've watched the trailer, I'm like, what age group is this
43:41for?
43:41That's when Glamour saw it, and that's his number one criticism.
43:44He's like, it's good, I just don't know who he's for.
43:46Which is, you know, I love animation, but it is like the one thing that really holds
43:51the medium back is that like, if you don't make it for kids, then.
43:54They're trying to be too adult.
43:55You don't.
43:55Also, small foot.
43:56You don't have a little foot.
43:57Small foot.
43:57The land before time.
43:59Yeah, duh.
43:59The dinosaur.
44:00Yeah.
44:00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:01And then they have coming up Cocomelon, the movie, which I'm assuming is going to make
44:04$8 trillion.
44:05Definitely.
44:05I don't think so.
44:06Is Cocomelon still hot in the streets?
44:08Oh, yeah.
44:08Definitely.
44:09Oh, yeah.
44:09The kids love Cocomelon.
44:10The kids can't fucking get enough of Cocomelon.
44:12How to Train Your Dragon 2, the live action one again.
44:15Shrek 5, which is in 2027.
44:17That, I think that gets pushed.
44:19You think that gets pushed?
44:20June 30th.
44:21Shrek 5 is going to make insane money.
44:22People hated that trailer.
44:24They did not love it.
44:25And they have Donkey.
44:26Yeah, yeah.
44:27It's been on.
44:28Right, yeah.
44:28They're mining the IP now.
44:30And they are developing another Madagascar, an untitled Little Dicky film, which what
44:34the fuck does that mean with DreamWorks?
44:37Little Dicky had an animated brain in one of his music videos.
44:40That's true.
44:41Kung Fu Panda 5, Wild Robot Escapes, untitled third Boss Baby film, Dogman sequel, and Bad
44:46Guy's film.
44:47Untitled third Boss Baby film is so funny.
44:50But yeah, I feel like Pixar won the war early.
44:54But I do feel like DreamWorks has stuck around, and they've made a lot of very good movies
44:58over that span for sure.
45:00Katzenberg, in the meantime, went on to make, again, Quibi, and one of the biggest failures
45:03of all time.
45:04I still will never get over that.
45:05Because that was over COVID.
45:07Nothing should have worked more than introducing a new app over COVID.
45:11Like anything.
45:12Yeah.
45:12Anything media-wise, it was popping.
45:14All you had to do was do something decent.
45:16And he's like, yeah, but you know how when you watch a show, what was the description
45:20exactly?
45:20It was like, when you read a book, you read it in chapters.
45:23That's what Quibi does.
45:23I'm like, yeah, that's episodes of a television show.
45:26That's what we do already.
45:28And he's like, yeah, but what if it was like five minutes?
45:30And he's like, that's terrible.
45:31Who the fuck wants that?
45:32It's crazy to me.
45:33Horrible idea.
45:34Yeah.
45:34Really bad idea.
45:35But anyway, that's the state of those two.
45:38Again, our winner between Ants and a Bug's Life is pretty firmly Ants.
45:42I think next episode, we'll have Clemmer back in.
45:45I think we'll do Tombstone vs. White Earp.
45:47I think it'll be a fun one.
45:48Oh, yeah.
45:48Go back and do a nice little old school one.
45:50I haven't seen Tombstone.
45:51I know.
45:52You've never seen Tombstone?
45:53I know.
45:53Oh, man.
45:54I'm jealous of you.
45:55Yeah.
45:56It's one of my favorites.
45:57Maybe I'll watch him, and I could watch the episode.
45:59That'll be like my life.
46:00It's like a gateway Western, too.
46:02I love Western.
46:02I've never seen White Earp.
46:03But you know how Westerns are kind of hard to really recommend to people?
46:06Yeah.
46:07Because it's like you either like them or you don't.
46:08It's like, if you're not a horror person, I'm not going to tell you to go watch fucking
46:12Terrifier.
46:14But Tombstone's a nice little entryway.
46:16I love Westerns.
46:17Yeah.
46:17I'm a big Western guy.
46:18I think that maybe we should have Robbie on with Clemmer.
46:21And just have the nativist look at these two movies.
46:26Like your first time look.
46:27That'd be kind of funny.
46:28But yeah, that is our winner.
46:30We'll be back, I believe, in two weeks with Tombstone versus Wider.