- 2 days ago
The Junkies debate whether the Commanders should trade Daron Payne before the deadline to jumpstart their future roster build.
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00:00We wanted to talk about something that is going to, I think the conversation is going to heat up here
00:05in the next few weeks, especially if Washington continues to disappoint and lose.
00:11And that is potentially trading away guys in the future.
00:15And specifically, let's talk about Daron Payne.
00:18They're going to have to make a decision with Daron Payne.
00:20Do they want to give him big money to stay here in Washington or do they want to cut their
00:25losses now and trade him?
00:27They've already made that decision.
00:28If he were in the future plans, he would already be playing on an extension.
00:32Right.
00:33They're not going to give him a big fat extension.
00:35It's just a matter of whether they are willing to trade him before the deadline, which is November 10th.
00:41Daron Payne's not getting inked to a big contract extension by the commanders.
00:45And I think it kind of depends on what happens in the next few weeks.
00:48I mean, if they go into tank-a-thon mode, then maybe they do try and get rid of a
00:54couple of these guys that they're not going to bring back and get a couple extra picks.
00:56I told you yesterday, I don't think of the NFL trading deadline the way we think of baseball's trading deadlines
01:04is totally different to me.
01:05I really don't feel like teams just go on a sales spree and they just unload guys.
01:12But I don't care if we're winning the division and we're undefeated, I would trade Daron Payne.
01:17I don't think he's critical.
01:19He's had a few moments here.
01:20He's flashed a little bit recently.
01:22But for the most part, I'm ready to move on.
01:24If a contender calls Adam Peters and says, we'll give you a fourth-rounder and a sixth-rounder for Daron
01:31Payne, he should immediately accept the deal.
01:34Like, with the quickness.
01:36I mean, I don't know what his market is going to be.
01:38I don't know if he's going to be in the running for Daron Payne.
01:41But if you get any sort of decent offer, I mean, especially if he's walking at the end of the
01:47year, you have to get something back.
01:48What could you get for him?
01:49A fifth-rounder?
01:50I said maybe a fourth and a sixth, a fifth.
01:52Yeah.
01:53I'll take anything.
01:54Anything.
01:54Whatever you got.
01:55If you go back to 2023.
01:57Gatorade.
01:57If you want to chime in, 1-800-636-1067.
02:02As the trade deadline approached, they moved on from Montez Sweat and Chase Young.
02:07Yep.
02:07They had expiring contracts in 2023.
02:09They received second and third-round picks in return for Montez Sweat and Chase Young.
02:15I forgot about that.
02:16This team has been involved in trade deadline moves, I think, in three of the last four years.
02:22Now, a couple years ago, they acquired Marshawn Lattimore.
02:25And I believe the third-round pick turned into Luke, and the second-round pick turned into Johnny Newton.
02:32So, not great returns, but you'd rather get something, at least take a bite at the apple in the draft,
02:39that you're going to get a starter and a productive player,
02:42than just let a guy walk for whatever compensatory pick you're going to get for said player.
02:47Just to play devil's advocate, why not keep a starter who has produced for you,
02:55he forced the fumble on Scadaboo this past week.
02:59I understand he doesn't flash.
03:02He hasn't flashed enough.
03:03But he's also playing defensive tackle.
03:05By and large, defensive tackles don't flash.
03:07Like, he's a starter.
03:09No, he flashed before.
03:10And I think the thought was that Johnny Newton, who they drafted, would take over for Duran Payne.
03:16But Johnny Newton, I know he's hurt right now, and he's not available.
03:19But Johnny Newton has been a disappointment.
03:21Duran Payne has been better than Johnny Newton.
03:23No doubt about that.
03:25So, do you just want to get rid of your starters?
03:27I just don't think I see him in the future, and I don't think he's been that good the last
03:31couple years.
03:31And again, if he were valuable to this franchise, he would have been re-inked already.
03:36Unless he didn't get a contract offer that he liked.
03:39That's what we don't know.
03:40We don't know if they were negotiating with him.
03:43He might think he's not getting a contract offer he didn't like.
03:48Of course he didn't like it, or else he would have signed it.
03:50Okay, but you're putting it all on the organization.
03:52The organization might have said, we want you, but we don't want to pay you $20 million.
03:55I'm just going to throw you an absurd figure.
03:57Right?
03:58Well, he's already making more than that.
04:00Well, not for a year.
04:01Duran Payne?
04:02Look at his contract.
04:05He's making more than $20 million this year?
04:07He signed a four-year, $90 million contract.
04:09I don't know what's guaranteed.
04:11Yeah, he's not going backwards.
04:13Listen, I think he's gone, but what if they just offered him a one-year deal, and he didn't
04:17get any good offers?
04:18Maybe he'll take it.
04:20I mean, I guess if he has no other suitors, and there's less than zero interest in him,
04:24maybe he would take it.
04:25But I don't think he and his agent are going to take a one-year deal.
04:28I don't think he's a hot commodity.
04:29Look, he's a 29-year-old guy playing on the last year of his deal here.
04:33Right.
04:33So that's what I'm saying.
04:34His value might be diminished.
04:36Yeah.
04:36Could be.
04:36I think you're right.
04:37That's why I think if you get any sort of offer for him, and certainly if it starts
04:40with a three, like a third-round pick, I mean, you're doing cartwheels for that.
04:46I would trade him, but maybe there's no real interest, and they could get him for half
04:50price.
04:50You could get him for two years and $30 million.
04:53Last year, Eric, there was 24 trades made between, well, some of those were in the early part
05:02of the year, but 24 trades before the deadline.
05:04Yeah.
05:04Well, the one that you got me, and I forget, and those guys were at the peak of their powers.
05:10I mean, Chase had a flop, but Chase and Montez, those guys were in the prime of their careers.
05:16Yeah.
05:16Yeah, 2023, they decided to move on.
05:19So that's why you got good value for them.
05:19I mean, they gave up on those two guys, prime of their career.
05:23Deron Payne is a fading, borderline pretty good player.
05:28I think if he gets offered a fourth-round pick, or better, which I don't think is going
05:32to happen, but a fourth-rounder, he would do that deal like that.
05:36I think it does.
05:37He'd snap his fingers and get it done.
05:37I think it does depend on how these next couple weeks play out.
05:40Oh, if they go to 1, 5, and 1, and they're out of it, then I would trade Deron Payne
05:47and anybody else of value that is not in your future plans.
05:50Terry McCorn?
05:52Sure.
05:53Yeah, I could see that.
05:53He's not in the long-term plans.
05:55Especially if there's some...
05:55I'm not convinced Terry's not in the long-term.
05:57They could sign him to a restructured deal for one or two years.
06:01I'm not convinced.
06:03Yeah, but you wouldn't be upset if they traded him.
06:06I kind of would.
06:07Would you?
06:07Yeah.
06:07I mean, I like him.
06:08I just, I mean, he's aging.
06:10I think they could draft, they could go into the draft and get a really good young receiver
06:14next year.
06:15They'd have to.
06:16I mean, they're top two receivers, or older guys.
06:20Yeah, they're going to lose probably Diggs.
06:22Yeah.
06:23I could see him transitioning to a number two or number three receiver here as he ages.
06:28I would be okay with that.
06:30He doesn't have to be my top guy.
06:32I like Derrick.
06:33But it kind of depends on what happens in the next three weeks, because they've got three
06:36games left before the deadline.
06:37So, they lose to the 49ers and Eagles, and they're 1-5-1 before that Rams game.
06:42Then it's trading time.
06:43It might be.
06:44Then the trader Adam is open for business.
06:481-800-636-1067 is the number.
06:52It's other players other than Payne.
06:53Do you want to see this team explore trades and trade somebody like Deron Payne here in
06:58the coming weeks if the season continues to go down the twos?
07:02I mean, that's the worst scenario where you're talking about trading players because the season
07:05is lost.
07:07I would trade him even if we're undefeated.
07:09Yeah.
07:10Because he's not that impactful.
07:12He's had an impact last week.
07:13I mean, I think at times...
07:15For the last two years, it's been largely...
07:17I mean, I don't know what his PFF grades are week to week, but I mean, I think if you're...
07:21I don't think they're that great.
07:21If you're...
07:22I mean, he's a starter.
07:23The best stat year he had in the last four years was his contract year to get the current
07:28contract that he's on.
07:29And ever since then, it hasn't been as good.
07:31Yeah.
07:32And he's 29 years old.
07:33Right.
07:34I'm fine with...
07:35Especially if you're 1-5-1.
07:36Goodbye.
07:37Get another pick.
07:39Let's move on.
07:39On the other hand, Terry, even though he's older and he's getting a little hurt more,
07:44when he's healthy, he still is productive.
07:46And I still like to keep Terry.
07:47What I see on PFF might surprise you.
07:50According to this, he has a 65.5 PFF grade.
07:54Now, that's not ridiculously high, but...
07:56That's this year.
07:5842nd out of 133.
08:00Yeah.
08:00But what surprised me is his pressures...
08:03Top 3rd.
08:04He's got 15 pressures this year.
08:06That's 11th out of 133.
08:08We're good.
08:08There you go.
08:08That means he has value to other teams.
08:12And his snap count, which is just...
08:13Look, he's a starter.
08:14He's out there.
08:15Is 8th amongst 185.
08:18Good.
08:19I'm fine with trading him.
08:20And then, hey, shy Tuttle, now's your time.
08:23You're going to get elevated snaps.
08:24But he's being more productive than we actually know.
08:27That's fine.
08:27Based on those numbers.
08:28That enhances the trade value.
08:30He's popped a little bit of late.
08:30He's got one sack, 11 hurries, three quarterback hits.
08:34I wouldn't drop him back in coverage there, Durante.
08:37Yeah, let's not do that.
08:38Let's not do that again.
08:39Yeah, let's minor that or get that out of the playbook entirely.
08:42Don't do that when George Kittle's running a 10-yard in.
08:46I don't know.
08:46I don't know if I'd trade him just for a 5th or 6th round pick.
08:50I might consider signing him.
08:52He's valuable.
08:53He's a starter.
08:54He's making tackles.
08:56Look, he's a defensive tackle.
08:57Again, you're not going to shine as much as somebody that's playing out on the edge.
09:00But he seems to be doing his job at a decent rate.
09:03And we saw it in the Giants game.
09:06I'm willing to wager that he does not re-sign with the Commanders.
09:09A $5 bet.
09:11Any deal.
09:12Any sort of deal.
09:12Any length.
09:13Any takers?
09:15No.
09:15Anyone?
09:16No, I think he's likely gone.
09:18Anyone?
09:18He'll likely be gone.
09:20But I do think that there are scenarios.
09:22Your lack of betting shows me there's no confidence that you think he'll be back here after this year.
09:27Well, nobody said they think he'll be back.
09:28I'm just giving you a scenario where we could.
09:29I'm just being traded.
09:30He could come back if there was no market and they give him $15 million.
09:36Do you agree or no?
09:37If he goes out there and there's no market.
09:38One-year $15 million deal?
09:39If he looks around and nobody's offering him.
09:41I guess.
09:41But I don't think he would accept a one-year $15 million deal.
09:44Well, that's better than zero.
09:46I think there'll be more of a market than that for him.
09:49Well, I mean, if he's putting up top 15 PFF grades, sure.
09:53What did Von Miller get?
09:55Like, I know Von Miller's a lot older.
09:57I don't think he got a lot.
09:57But, like, Von Miller, what did he get?
09:58$5 million or something?
09:59I can't remember.
10:00Maybe $10?
10:00Does he even have a sack this year?
10:02I don't think Von's doing anything for the Cowboys.
10:05Maybe one.
10:06Let me check in on that.
10:08Let's go to Shane.
10:09Calling from Tennessee.
10:10Shane, what's up?
10:11You're all with the Junkies.
10:13Good morning, Junkies.
10:14Happy Friday to y'all.
10:15Yeah, you too, bud.
10:16What's going on?
10:16All right, look.
10:17This is a great topic.
10:18Number one, I think everyone knows how I feel about Deron Payne.
10:21All he's done since he got that bag is still paychecks since he's been here.
10:25Yeah, he had a great game against the Giants, but that's the first time he showed up in, what, two
10:29years?
10:30And I'm with everyone else.
10:32Like, if we're 1-5-1, you guys start building for this future of this team.
10:37Terry's getting older.
10:39His production the last two years has dropped.
10:41Granted, our quarterback play has been injured and things like that,
10:45but you guys start looking at the best for this team right now.
10:48The defense is actually getting better.
10:51So, Deron Payne, his time is done here.
10:54He's not going to be back here anyway, so why let him walk away when we can get something back
11:00in return?
11:00You know, I'm done with him.
11:02Number one, he's a Bama guy anyway, so let's just go ahead and get rid of him.
11:07And let my Tennessee boy, Scott Tuttle, sit in there and do his thing.
11:12So, if he went to Tennessee, he'd love him.
11:13Appreciate it.
11:14Yeah, I do think there are other guys that can do whatever he's doing.
11:18I don't know.
11:19I don't think there's another guy that could be that high in the PFF categories.
11:22By the way, Von Miller has been getting about 14 snaps per game, has zero sacks, six pressures.
11:29All right, was he getting 14 plays?
11:31I mean, can't expect him to do much.
11:32Apparently being used.
11:3314 plays.
11:34But nobody on the Dallas defense is doing anything, really.
11:36All right, let's go to Ron in D.C.
11:40Ron, what's up?
11:41You're on with the Junkies.
11:42How we doing?
11:43Hey, good.
11:44They're not trading.
11:46These guys, they think they have, you know, a bunch of pro bowlers.
11:51Like, they're not trading.
11:52They think Payne's probably worth a first or a second round pick.
11:55No, there's no way they think that.
11:58That's impossible.
11:59They love their guys.
12:00What do you mean?
12:00They've been telling us they love this team for so long and how they love every playmaker
12:04at every position.
12:05What makes you think they don't think that?
12:07Well, remember, this is a Rivera choice, right?
12:09I guarantee you.
12:10This is a previous regime choice.
12:11If you've got Adam Peters behind closed doors with a glass of whatever he likes to drink,
12:15he would tell you that he would never expect a first rounder or a second rounder in return
12:20for Deron Payne.
12:21It's impossible.
12:23They're on the hot seat.
12:24They've got to win.
12:25I don't think they're trading one of their best players.
12:27You think they're on the Payne trade?
12:29I don't think he's one of their best players.
12:32I think he's a diamond dozen.
12:33If you look at it and if you look at the games played, he's realistically one of the only
12:37players they can depend on historically in the last two or three years.
12:41If you really look at the stats and don't think with your heart and think with your brain,
12:45I just look at the impact I see and I don't see it.
12:48I just don't see the impact.
12:49If I were to Ron Payne, you might not see it.
12:52But that's the truth of the situation.
12:54The team's so bad that he is, or they're built so poorly that he's one of those players that
13:01other franchises might value for a fourth round hit, but they're not going to do that.
13:04Listen, obviously you're hostile towards the regime.
13:07You don't like the organization, you know, whatever, who's in charge.
13:09I don't mind them.
13:10I'm just saying they're going to go down.
13:11They love these guys.
13:12They're going to go down with them.
13:13Okay, so here's the question then.
13:15Listen, you're predicting they're not going to do it.
13:18What I'm going to ask you is, would you?
13:22I would trade Payne for a third round pick in a second.
13:27Yes.
13:27Well, that's never going to.
13:28I don't think you're going to get a third round pick in a second, he said.
13:33Oh, in a second.
13:33I thought he said and a second.
13:35I mean, they got a, I don't know, but they got it because I think they think they can win
13:40this division, especially now if they're playing Tanner McKee in two weeks or three weeks.
13:45Well, let's see what happens on Monday.
13:47But again, Ron is acting like Adam Peters and all of his front office loves Deron Payne.
13:52If they loved Deron Payne, he would be inked to a deal already.
13:56He's saying that from the perspective, though, he's out on these guys.
14:00You could tell, like, he has an angst against Quinn and the whole call was based on his angst
14:05against Quinn Peters.
14:06That's a big presumption, Cakes.
14:08It's a two-sided scenario.
14:11Maybe Deron Payne doesn't want to sign here.
14:13You keep saying if he would want to sign here if he were given a contract that he felt was
14:19I know, but you're speculating really from one side.
14:23Maybe they do want him and he's chosen not to sign.
14:26Maybe he wants to hit free agency.
14:28Maybe he wants to leave Washington and go elsewhere.
14:30I'll say this.
14:31I just looked up five PFF grades and PFF grades can get very controversial.
14:35Four defensive linemen that are currently on the Washington Commanders.
14:39Now, I put it Owe, he's an edge, you know, technically linebacker chase on.
14:44I put in Kinlaw.
14:45I put in Tim Settle.
14:46All right.
14:47Deron Payne's rated higher than all of those guys.
14:49I'm not saying that it's not.
14:50So, according to the PFFers, and they can be wrong, he's playing better football than
14:54all of those guys.
14:54That's fine.
14:55I just know that Adam Peters is not going to sign him to a three-year, $80 million extension.
15:01He's not going to do that.
15:02I would agree with that.
15:03But if he wasn't playing well, he would have been replaced by somebody already.
15:07I agree with that.
15:08Well, he's clearly, I mean, he's a starter for a reason.
15:11Right.
15:12And his numbers, based on those categories, are better than people think.
15:15And you know they wanted Johnny Newton to beat him out.
15:17Just because he's not sacking the quarterback every game.
15:19I don't expect him to ever sack the quarterback, frankly.
15:21But he's pressuring.
15:23He is pressuring.
15:24That's something you're not watching.
15:25But these people at PFF, they see it.
15:28Yeah.
15:28Whatever.
15:29If I were him, I'd be calling Debbie and Sarah Reynolds.
15:33And I'd be getting my house ready.
15:34And just getting ready to move on to my next city.
15:38I'm always amazed by Cakes' S-list.
15:42I had Ron Payne to the list.
15:44I couldn't care less about Ron Payne.
15:46Whatever he does or doesn't do for the Commanders has no effect on my life.
15:49I just know, by the way, NFL GMs work and act and by contracts they give out or don't give
15:56out.
15:57How they value and look at players.
16:01And I don't think Adam Peters looks at Ron Payne and says he has a future with the Commanders.
16:05I don't think he feels like he's a must-have.
16:07Especially at the money he's going to make.
16:09Must-have.
16:10Who is making currently?
16:11Yeah, must-have is a tough label.
16:14But I do think he's the starter and the guy that they drafted in Johnny Newton with a second-round
16:21pick.
16:21He's a starter on a bad defense that's expendable.
16:23I know.
16:23But they drafted a potential Ron Payne replacement.
16:27Right.
16:27And he hasn't been able to beat him out.
16:29Understood.
16:29And I'm sure Adam Peters is dying for that to happen.
16:32He just hasn't played out.