- 13 minutes ago
Wesley Ward has a pair of speedy sprinters pointing toward the upcoming Breeders' Cup. The trainer discusses Bacio and Nakatomi on this week's TDN Writers' Room. Plus, the team discusses other Breeders' Cup storylines.
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00:00:17Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:00:22My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:23I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:27Hello, friends.
00:00:28That sounds like a guy from another network.
00:00:32I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and with the Beyer Speed Figure team.
00:00:37Hello, friends.
00:00:39Zoe Catman with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:41Hey, Bill, how was your workout this morning?
00:00:45Pretty good, Zoe.
00:00:46I'm pumped and ready to go.
00:00:48You know what?
00:00:50I watch.
00:00:51I have it all set.
00:00:53I'm so bookumdano crazy.
00:00:55Do you know what I do on the exercise bike?
00:00:57I watch old reruns of Hawaii Five-0.
00:00:59Oh, my God.
00:01:01Are you serious?
00:01:02Yeah, I'm dead serious.
00:01:03Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:05So anyways, yeah, I need help, don't I, guys?
00:01:07But anyways, okay.
00:01:09All right.
00:01:09So today is Wednesday and the pre-entries for the Breeders' Cup came out.
00:01:15We'll save all the handicapping for next week.
00:01:17That's traditionally the show that we do, Breeders' Cup week.
00:01:20But we're all ready to start the show by saying, wow, ombudsman, what a great race over at the champion
00:01:27stakes last Saturday in England.
00:01:30Now he's going to come over for John and Thaddeus Gosling and be the big favorite in the race.
00:01:35Lo and behold, even though he's entered, the word comes out today that he's not going to run.
00:01:42They say that maybe the Japan Cup could be his swan song, but they don't seem to have that set
00:01:49in stone.
00:01:50Randy, we'll start with you.
00:01:53Does this make Diamond Necklace the horse to beat now?
00:01:55She's the favorite in the anti-post wagering over in the U.K.
00:01:59And what do you make of this whole situation?
00:02:01Yeah.
00:02:01Was it Lucy that pulled the football out from Charlie Brown at the last minute?
00:02:06At least he didn't get over here and scratch the morning of the race or something like that.
00:02:11You know, it's kind of been back and forth because before Champions Day, Gosling was quoted as saying that it
00:02:18was very unlikely that he would run in both races.
00:02:22He would either run in on Champions Day if the course was firm enough and then skip the Breeders' Cup,
00:02:27or if the course came up too soft, he would scratch from the Champions Day and run in the Breeders'
00:02:31Cup for his final career race.
00:02:33So I was kind of surprised when, you know, I guess because he won so easily that, you know, he
00:02:39was flirting with the idea and supposedly even said that he was going to ship him over and make his
00:02:44final career start in the Breeders' Cup.
00:02:46And then, lo and behold, he's not.
00:02:47To me, I had Diamond Necklace second and Eternal, not Eternal, Ethical Diamond, the last year's winner third, just because
00:02:59Ethical Diamond ran so well at Kentucky Downs when he came back to the U.S. earlier this year.
00:03:04But it does definitely, you know, take a lot of luster off of that race.
00:03:09And how good was Ombudsman?
00:03:11He was absolutely spectacular.
00:03:15He would have been easy odds-on favorite.
00:03:18Now, saying that, back in 2015, John brought Golden Horn, he was supposed to absolutely park, and he got stuck
00:03:25in the sandpit by all accounts.
00:03:27Keeneland is a sand-based turf course, and not all turf horses run well at Keeneland, especially if it's a
00:03:33little bit soft.
00:03:33So, I'm wondering if maybe in the back of his mind, John was thinking that.
00:03:39Now, I know a lot of people are complaining this past week at Keeneland that they took all the races
00:03:44off the turf, and it's been really nice weather.
00:03:46There were a bunch of works on the turf course this morning, Tuesday, at Keeneland, and it was surprisingly boggy,
00:03:54very soft.
00:03:55You got really fast horses going in 104.
00:03:59I don't know if this had anything to do with it, because they haven't had rain there in the last
00:04:03five days, and the turf course was still bottomless.
00:04:06So, I think a lot of that went into Ombudsman not coming.
00:04:11That being said, it looks like Bay City Rollers coming for George Scott, which would be absolutely amazing.
00:04:19He seems to dance every dance, so you've got to think about him.
00:04:22Diamond Necklace, Survee's in there.
00:04:25Yeah, she's got a wicked turn of foot, and I think she'll run just on just about anything.
00:04:29And then Ethical Diamond.
00:04:30If you ran him down the pavement, he would run.
00:04:33If you ran him in the sandpit, he would run.
00:04:36If you run him in knee-deep mud, he would run.
00:04:38He seems to be a horse who doesn't need to take his track with him.
00:04:42And Tiffany, the filly that beat, or the mayor that beat Ethical Diamond at Kentucky Downs for Sir Mark Prescott,
00:04:48your buddy.
00:04:49Sir Mark, yes.
00:04:50All right, so there's a theme here, and this segues into my next question.
00:04:56You guys, we rattled off five, six horses, not one mention of an American horse.
00:05:01So, this race, I mean, is loaded with European horses.
00:05:07Burnham Square, can he come back and be the old Burnham Square?
00:05:11We'll find out about that.
00:05:12But it raises the question, how dominant will the European horses be at this year's Breeders' Cup?
00:05:18Now, there are seven turf races, and they won five last year.
00:05:24So, I'll start with you, Zoe.
00:05:26I'll set the over-under at five.
00:05:28And I will tell you this.
00:05:29There's a great website called Odds Checker.
00:05:32And you can check all the anti-post odds for the Breeders' Cup for all the bookmakers over in the
00:05:39U.K.
00:05:39And in virtually every single turf race but one, the European horses are heavily favored.
00:05:47And even the one where you have an American horse favored is kind of an asterisk next to us.
00:05:52That's Baccio, the Wesley Ward-trained horse.
00:05:55Yes, based in the U.S., but has made his name.
00:05:58And the reason why he's going to be the favorite in the turf sprint is what he's done in Europe,
00:06:03including when the grade won, excuse me, the group won over at York last time out.
00:06:07So, Zoe, I'm setting the over-under at five and a half.
00:06:11Are you taking the over or the under?
00:06:14It's Keeneland.
00:06:16So, I might take the under because predominantly the horses that people bring to the Breeders' Cup want firm ground.
00:06:26And like I just mentioned about Keeneland's turf course, it can be a little bit tricky sometimes.
00:06:30So, I'm going to take the under.
00:06:31I've got some stats for you.
00:06:33Since 2011, European Breeders' Cup runners, 50 European of 98, have won since 2011.
00:06:45Now, they hold a good record in the juvenile turf.
00:06:48They've won 12 of 15 of the last runnings.
00:06:52So, this is the last 15 runnings.
00:06:54Europe's won 12.
00:06:55In the turf, 12 of the last 15 runnings have gone to Europe.
00:07:00Philly and mare turf, eight of the last 15 have gone to Europe.
00:07:04The mile, which was a bit surprising to me, seven of the last 15 have gone to Europe.
00:07:09The place where they seem to fall down and they always get favored is the juvenile Phillies' turf.
00:07:14They've won five of the last 15 runnings.
00:07:16And the turf sprint.
00:07:18Now, if you look at this year's turf sprint, there's a ton of Euros in there.
00:07:21They've only won two of the last 15 runnings.
00:07:24So, it's some really interesting stats there.
00:07:27But for the juvenile turf and the turf, it looks like the Europeans definitely hold the cards.
00:07:34Yeah.
00:07:34Was it Damon Runyon that said, famous quote, may not have been him, but anyway, I'm going to say it.
00:07:42The battle's not always to the strong.
00:07:44The race is not always to the swift.
00:07:46But that's the way to bet.
00:07:50And we've seen enough of the Europeans at the longer distances, particularly where they're, you know, they have more mile
00:08:00and a half oriented pedigrees over there than they do in the United States.
00:08:03You know, to know that, no, I can't take any American horse in the Breeders' Cup turf.
00:08:08Maybe one sneaks in every now and then.
00:08:10Every now and then you get, you know, an English channel or a bricks and mortar or somebody like that.
00:08:15But for the most part, they dominate.
00:08:17If you look at the statistics, the European win percentage at the turf and then the Philly and Mayor turf
00:08:24and then the mile and then the turf sprint, it starts off like it's 60 something percent for the turf.
00:08:30And then it goes down and it goes down again for the mile and then it goes way down for
00:08:35the sprint.
00:08:36It's just the longer the distances, the more dominant the Europeans tend to be.
00:08:41So, I'm going to, but having said that, Bill, I'm going to take an enthusiastic under.
00:08:46Okay.
00:08:47For five and a half for the Americans, for, you know, for the Europeans winning five and a half, because
00:08:51I think there are a couple of Americans, especially on Friday, that have a, that have a really, really good
00:08:57shot to win.
00:08:58All right.
00:08:58Well, again, we'll get the handicapping opinions next week on the show when we do that.
00:09:05So, if you're looking at the American horses, obviously you're looking at the dirt horses that you think are going
00:09:12to prosper the most.
00:09:14And I think that in the sprint, Englishman will be the most heavily favored American dirt horse, I would imagine,
00:09:24among any of the races.
00:09:25We know how brilliant he is.
00:09:28He's just been phenomenal.
00:09:29Does he have to win?
00:09:31Is he the most definite winner among the American horses?
00:09:35And I'll say maybe, because how about T.O.
00:09:40Elvis?
00:09:41You haven't seen him since the Kentucky Derby day, and he ran through his skin in the Churchill Downstakes.
00:09:48Englishman is a three-year-old.
00:09:50He's an older horse, Randy.
00:09:52He's got to have a chance.
00:09:54Oh, yeah.
00:09:54And he's going to take some action.
00:09:57You know, I think to say Englishman is going to be the shortest price favorite on Saturday depends, I think,
00:10:05on what they do with Knightsbridge.
00:10:08Okay?
00:10:08To me, it makes no sense at all to run Knightsbridge in the dirt mile.
00:10:14If he runs in the dirt mile against that lineup that they're going to have in the dirt mile, he'll
00:10:17be one to five.
00:10:19And there's only been one one to five shot in the history of the Breeders' Cup, and that was a
00:10:24Meadow Star 36 years ago in the juvenile fillies, and she won.
00:10:29But what does he have to prove in the dirt mile?
00:10:33He's going off to stud after this race.
00:10:34If they run him in the classic, okay, with or without sovereignty, and I think sovereignty is still 50-50.
00:10:40But even if sovereignty runs, okay, give Knightsbridge a chance to show, you know, what he can do against the
00:10:47top, top-level competition in a mile and a quarter.
00:10:50And, oh, by the way, you don't have to use him as a pacemaker, but his running style and his
00:10:55presence actually helps sovereignty.
00:10:59So why throw him in a meaningless race like the dirt mile in terms of what's going to be good
00:11:03for his stud career or whatever?
00:11:07So having said all that, Englishman, I think if Knightsbridge does go in the classic, will be the most solid
00:11:14favorite on Saturday.
00:11:15But, you know, I think T.O. Elvis is deservedly at least going to get some action because, boy, did
00:11:23he look good at Churchill Downs.
00:11:25He looked really, really good.
00:11:27But, I mean, come on, let's face it.
00:11:28No one is as fast as Englishman.
00:11:30In fact, the only horse that might have tried to tackle him early is on the also-eligibles, and that's
00:11:37Liam Smith, who ran two back-to-back 107 by his speed figures for Peter Miller.
00:11:42But, you know, those are just in allowance and claiming races.
00:11:45So he didn't stand a chance to get in.
00:11:49He's the only one that could have got close to him at least for a little while.
00:11:52I just think he's going to run away with it.
00:11:55He will be the shortest-priced favorite for sure.
00:11:58Randy, I want to take you back to Knightsbridge, and did you expect him to be – I mean, again,
00:12:04they can always – they don't have to make up their minds until the entries.
00:12:08But did you expect them to make Knightsbridge first preference for the classic, and do you read anything into that?
00:12:16Initially, no, but, Bill, the more I thought about it, it makes all the sense in the world.
00:12:20I mean, because, like I said, the dirt mile proves nothing.
00:12:23He's going to be a one-to-five favorite against a bunch of grade-two and grade-three horses.
00:12:27He'll win it by ten.
00:12:29You know, he's going off to stud.
00:12:30We already know how fast he is against horses like that.
00:12:34Okay, give him a chance to beat Sovereignty.
00:12:36Give him a chance to beat Forever Young.
00:12:38And, boy, what would that do for his stud career?
00:12:42You know, a loss in the Breeders' Cup Classic I don't think would be that devastating.
00:12:46I bet he runs in the Classic.
00:12:48I really do.
00:12:48I do, too.
00:12:49Yeah.
00:12:50All right, well, we'll keep our eye on that.
00:12:52We're talking about who will be the biggest favorite of the day, and I guess nitrogen has to be considered
00:12:58in the running for that.
00:12:59And we're talking about Saturday and, again, talking about the dirt races.
00:13:03There's a couple of horses in some of the two-year-old races on Friday that are going to be
00:13:09happily bet.
00:13:09And, you know, she has a reputation of being the best older Philly mayor in the country, and deservedly so.
00:13:15She was Eclipse Award winner last year.
00:13:17She ran second to Sovereignty in the Whitney.
00:13:19She's coming off a win in the bell name.
00:13:21But I dug a little deeper in this, and I was thinking, you know, does she have to win this
00:13:26race to be the older Philly mayor and champion?
00:13:28And to me, the answer is absolutely yes.
00:13:31Yes.
00:13:32Depending, yes.
00:13:33Yeah.
00:13:33As long as some 30-to-1 shot doesn't win.
00:13:36She's 3-for-6 this year and only has one grade one win and fully subscribed, even though she got
00:13:43drilled by nitrogen in the Ogden Phipps, has two grade one wins on the year.
00:13:49And then there's Splendora, who's 5-for-6 on the year for Bob Baffert and has one grade one win
00:13:56on the year.
00:13:56I said last week that this is the race that I'm really looking forward to, but nitrogen better bring Randy
00:14:02her running shoes because this is a tough race, and this Eclipse Award is up for grabs, if you ask
00:14:08me.
00:14:08I second that opinion.
00:14:10I looked at the same things that you looked at.
00:14:12To me, the winner of the race, if it's nitrogen or fully subscribed or Splendora, is going to win the
00:14:20Eclipse Award as champion older female, and I think it should be that way.
00:14:23Absolutely.
00:14:24Couldn't agree with you more.
00:14:26All right.
00:14:27We're going to talk more of Breeders' Cup, sort of these questions that we're bantering around.
00:14:31But first, we're going to take a commercial break.
00:14:33We're going to find out what's going on at Keeneland.
00:14:35And as usual, Randy will tell us who the fastest horse of the week was.
00:14:40Stay tuned for that.
00:14:42I want to remind you that each and every week, the TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
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00:15:51Fastest Horse of the Week brought to you, as always, by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:15:56When we talk about speed, this is a good definition of speed.
00:15:59How about seven furlongs in 120.77?
00:16:05That was as a two-year-old, and it was done by Patch Adams, who won a maiden special weight
00:16:10at Churchill Downs.
00:16:11Just .33 seconds off that track's track record for that win.
00:16:16He earned a 98 buyer speed figure, which was the second highest of any two-year-old in 2024.
00:16:22Then as a three-year-old, he won a couple of grade one stakes at Saratoga.
00:16:25Took the Allen Jerkins and the Woody Stephens.
00:16:27Brad Cox commented that he was the fastest three-year-old that he ever trained.
00:16:33Well, now Patch Adams will stand the 2027 season at Windstar Farm for a fee of $25,000.
00:16:42Our Fastest Horse of the Week comes courtesy of Judd Mod Farm and trainer Brad Cox,
00:16:47a Wednesday allowance winner at Belmont Park by the name of Disco Time.
00:16:51Yes, this is the same Disco Time that last year won his first five lifetime starts.
00:16:58He's a son of not this time.
00:17:00The fifth of which was a nine-and-three-quarters-length win in the Dwyer with a 107 buyer speed
00:17:06figure,
00:17:06which made him the three-to-two favorite in the Pegasus World Cup.
00:17:11A lot of people don't remember that.
00:17:12He finished eighth in that race, and he was beaten in the Challenger.
00:17:15Then he ran poorly in the Churchill Downs stakes.
00:17:17But now, his first start since Churchill, he is back, a wire-to-wire win in a six-and-a
00:17:22-half furlong allowance.
00:17:23Buyer speed figure 104 makes Disco Time, our resurgent Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:17:34Well, Randy, you already sort of touched on this, and we talked about it last week, the sovereignty situation.
00:17:42And you just said he's 50-50 to run.
00:17:45Now, Bill Mott, I talked to him after the workout on Sunday at Saratoga.
00:17:51It was 102.76, and the prior two workouts are 104.01 and 51.51.
00:17:59So, you know, this is raising questions.
00:18:02We talked about it last week.
00:18:04I'm going to put my faith in Bill Mott.
00:18:06He's among the best trainers of our lifetimes.
00:18:09If he thinks this is the way to properly prepare the horse for the Breeders' Cup, I'm going to give
00:18:14him the benefit of the doubt.
00:18:15He has one more work to go.
00:18:17It'll be at Keeneland.
00:18:18And keep in mind, these workouts were all over the training track at Saratoga, which tends to be slow.
00:18:26You're not going to work in 58 over the training track there unless you're really out for bear in the
00:18:32morning.
00:18:33But, Randy, you surprised me a little bit.
00:18:36But, you know, we'll find out.
00:18:37But you said 50-50 to run.
00:18:39And if he does run, is Mott good enough, considering that he hasn't run since August, he had the foot
00:18:46abscess, can he be at his absolute best?
00:18:49Okay.
00:18:50The question in my mind is not whether Bill Mott is preparing him properly.
00:18:55Okay.
00:18:55We know that Bill Mott will prepare him properly.
00:18:58The question is, is the horse responding properly to Bill Mott's preparation?
00:19:04And so far, I think it's a legitimate question as to whether he is or not.
00:19:10And he's going to have another Breeders' Cup.
00:19:12And I think they're going to take it right up until the time of entry.
00:19:15And at that point, Mott is going to have to make a decision in collaboration, of course, with the Goodolphin
00:19:23Brass as to whether he is actually 100%.
00:19:28Because we all know that Mott is not going to run sovereignty in the Breeders' Cup Classic unless he feels
00:19:34that the horse will give his A effort and his 100%.
00:19:38So, to me, looking at what we've seen so far, I promise you, Mott would rather have seen that horse
00:19:44work in 101-4 than 102-4.
00:19:47A nice, well-within-himself, powerful 101-4, gallop out strongly instead of what he got.
00:19:55So, to me, that's why I think he's no better than a 50-50 proposition to run when push comes
00:20:01to shove and entry time.
00:20:03It's not how fast you're going, it's how you're going fast.
00:20:06And unfortunately, we have no video available for us at this time to actually watch those works.
00:20:12So, I trust in Bill, and if he's quite happy, I'm quite happy.
00:20:16I did see a picture of him.
00:20:17I don't know if it's a recent picture of him that was in the DRF, but he certainly looked fit.
00:20:22He wasn't carrying any extra flesh whatsoever.
00:20:25So, that's probably not a problem for sovereignty right now.
00:20:29But it's exactly what Randy alluded to.
00:20:33How's he reacting to the training?
00:20:35Is he doing it with his neck bowed?
00:20:38I don't know.
00:20:40Yeah, and again, as Randy said, you know, there's nobody there at Saratoga to, I don't
00:20:44like to believe somebody put something on Twitter, X, excuse me, sorry, Elon Musk, that did do
00:20:52that.
00:20:52But I'll give you one little anecdote of that.
00:20:55I waited until the, I have him in my Equibase horses to, you know, watch list, and I waited
00:21:01until the workout time came up and I called Bill.
00:21:03So, he said, I had to tell him what the workout time was, said, I didn't even bring a watch.
00:21:09So, you know, if, and I have no reason to think he's, he's given me a snow job.
00:21:14I guess he really didn't care that much how fast the work was if he didn't actually bring
00:21:19a stopwatch.
00:21:20So, you know, take that as it is.
00:21:23But that is the, uh, the latest on, um, and look, if we get to, when we get to entry
00:21:27day,
00:21:28if they enter, if they enter, uh, sovereignty and if we get to Saturday and they run sovereignty
00:21:34to me, I think you can expect sovereignty.
00:21:37I think you can expect sovereignty to be the sovereignty that we all have come to know
00:21:42and respect at a mile and a quarter, especially I would look for him to run exceptionally well
00:21:46if he runs and I'm a hundred percent agreement with you on that.
00:21:50Randy, um, Bill, one note about Bill and his watch, like Bill will sit on his pony or he'll
00:21:56be on the backside and, you know, you can't see all the way around there on the training
00:22:01track.
00:22:02So he often comes up to the clockers and was like, Hey, what'd you get?
00:22:05He's not a guy that's on the clock on the radio.
00:22:08It doesn't have radios on his guys.
00:22:09He trusts the guys on the horse that have been doing it for him for years to get the time
00:22:15right to feel the horse.
00:22:17He said, he doesn't want to poke someone to make them go faster because I don't know
00:22:21what the ride is feeling under him because it's up to the rider to execute the work as
00:22:26they see fit.
00:22:27So he doesn't interfere with any of that.
00:22:29So I can totally understand him not knowing what time the horse went in because he's just
00:22:33watching.
00:22:34He's watching with the binoculars is very much kind of a, a field trainer rather than
00:22:39a clock trainer.
00:22:40Old school.
00:22:41Yep.
00:22:42All right.
00:22:42So as always, the Breeders' Cup is going to go a long ways towards deciding Eclipse
00:22:47Awards and presumably Horse of the Year.
00:22:49So again, I'll run these hypotheticals by you.
00:22:52Golden Tempo wins the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:22:55Horse of the Year, Shoe-In.
00:22:57Forever Young wins the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:22:59I think he would likely be Slam Dog.
00:23:03Sovereignty, probably.
00:23:04But he would only be two for four on the year with only two wins.
00:23:07But I think he probably would get it.
00:23:11Question A, Zoe, do you agree with all that?
00:23:14And question B, what if none of those three win?
00:23:17Who the heck might be Horse of the Year?
00:23:20Yeah.
00:23:22That's a very good question.
00:23:23That would be the toughest question of all.
00:23:26It would depend who runs second.
00:23:29I mean, you'd have to go back and look at Golden Tempo's body of work and what a year
00:23:35he's had.
00:23:35If he runs second to the longest shot on the board, it's probably still going to be Golden
00:23:40Tempo.
00:23:43Yeah.
00:23:45I can't answer that question.
00:23:46But you're spot on with the other ones.
00:23:48If any of those four horses wins, they are a slam dunk for Horse of the Year.
00:23:52Well, let me give you another one.
00:23:54Let me give you another one.
00:23:55All right.
00:23:56And they're off in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:23:59Okay.
00:24:02Going to the early lead is the horse that we expect to go to the early lead.
00:24:06At least the horse I expect to go to the early lead, which is Chad Summer's horse, Napoleon
00:24:10Solo.
00:24:11Right?
00:24:11Correct.
00:24:12Right on his outside flank is Knightsbridge.
00:24:15And Knightsbridge stalks him until about the 516th Bowl and then blows to the lead.
00:24:19And Knightsbridge wins by three.
00:24:21And Sovereignty rallies to finish second.
00:24:23Forever Young finishes third.
00:24:25Knightsbridge horse of the year?
00:24:26Yes.
00:24:27Absolutely.
00:24:28I think so, too.
00:24:29Yeah.
00:24:30Yeah.
00:24:30Well, very good point there.
00:24:31But again, we'll have to wait.
00:24:33See, we don't know which race he's going to run in.
00:24:36But Randy, I'm totally in agreement with you.
00:24:38I mean, go for it, Godolphin.
00:24:41He belongs in the Classic.
00:24:42And I've said this and written this before.
00:24:45I mean, you really don't prove anything winning the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile.
00:24:49Hey, I'm smelling something.
00:24:52I'm smelling Randy Moss might be picking Knightsbridge is what I'm smelling right here in the Breeders'
00:24:59Cup Classic.
00:24:59That's what I'm smelling.
00:25:01I don't think he's as good at a mile and a quarter as he is at a mile.
00:25:04But, you know, I think he deserves to be in there.
00:25:08And it wouldn't shock me if he won, would it you?
00:25:10No, not at all.
00:25:12Yeah.
00:25:13All right.
00:25:13So, horse we haven't even mentioned.
00:25:15But I think we have to, again, bring this up.
00:25:18The forgotten horse in this is Magnitude.
00:25:20He runs a complete stinker in the Whitney.
00:25:24But this is the same horse who beat Forever Young in the Dubai World Cup, Zoe.
00:25:29Steve Asmussen's a terrific trainer.
00:25:31Can he get him to bounce back?
00:25:33And is this horse going to fly under the radar and perhaps be a horse we'll be talking a lot
00:25:40more about in the podcast after the Breeders' Cup?
00:25:43What about Magnitude?
00:25:44He's probably not flying under the radar because he's got Flavian Pratt secured.
00:25:48So, there's no flying under the radar there.
00:25:50And let us not forget, he did beat sovereignty in the Stephen Foster.
00:25:55So, he's beaten Forever Young.
00:25:58He's beaten sovereignty.
00:26:00If he wins, he could very well win it all as well.
00:26:04Hey, do we include Saudi in our voting?
00:26:08I do.
00:26:09You do?
00:26:10I should be.
00:26:11Yeah?
00:26:12Okay.
00:26:12But he won in Dubai.
00:26:14I know.
00:26:15I know.
00:26:15I know.
00:26:16If Magnitude goes wire to wire, he wins the Breeders' Cup.
00:26:19I mean, he wins horse of the year.
00:26:20Yeah.
00:26:21There you go.
00:26:22All right.
00:26:22Now.
00:26:23And you talk about flying under the radar.
00:26:25I just told, I completely dissed Magnitude a second ago.
00:26:28I'm talking about the base scenario and I'm talking about Napoleon Solo and maybe Nice
00:26:33Bridge.
00:26:34It didn't even mention Magnitude.
00:26:36Yeah.
00:26:37So, here.
00:26:37There you go.
00:26:38All right.
00:26:39So, on the theme of the classic, Randy Moss, I will start with you because you are Mr.
00:26:44Buyer figure.
00:26:45Again, I've had a lot of fun with these odds.
00:26:49The three-year-olds, as you might expect, in the wagering so far being done overseas are
00:26:56getting no respect.
00:26:57Golden Tempo is nine to one.
00:26:59Napoleon Solo is 16 to one.
00:27:01And the Puma is also 16 to one.
00:27:04And then it goes down from there.
00:27:05I don't have the buyer figures in front of me.
00:27:08But, Randy, aren't the three-year-olds too slow and not nearly fast enough as the older
00:27:13horses to pull this off as a group?
00:27:16They're too slow based on what we have seen so far.
00:27:20But all the speed figures tell you is what they've done in the past, not what they're
00:27:22capable of in the future in certain circumstances.
00:27:25And we all know the three-year-olds tend to improve as the year goes on.
00:27:29So, it wouldn't surprise me at all, for example, to see Golden Tempo run the race of his life
00:27:35from a speed figure perspective.
00:27:37Okay?
00:27:37Let's suppose that sovereignty doesn't run.
00:27:40Okay?
00:27:40Or he runs and turns out that he's subpar.
00:27:43And let's suppose that Forever Young runs okay, but doesn't really look any better than
00:27:50he looked in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:27:51And then we get a speed duel between Magnitude and Napoleon Solo and Knightsbridge.
00:27:57It's an extremely hot early pace.
00:27:59That would really be right up Golden Tempo's alley.
00:28:03He hasn't gotten that much of a pace since the Kentucky Derby.
00:28:06So, to me, I think he's in with a shot if the pace scenario develops properly and if a
00:28:13couple of those other big-name older horses just don't completely come with their very
00:28:17best race.
00:28:19All right.
00:28:20We are going to take a break and we're going to hear what's going on with Kentucky
00:28:23Breads.
00:28:24As usual, they're winning everything everywhere around the globe.
00:28:28And Zoe is going to...
00:28:29Boy, you're going to like this.
00:28:30This is like the best first things first ever.
00:28:33A little...
00:28:34I won't give any more away, but don't change the dial, as they say, because you're really
00:28:38going to enjoy this.
00:28:39Then we'll come back with the Gaines Way Guest of the Week.
00:28:42We'll be right back here on the TDN Writers Room Podcast.
00:28:45The TDN Writers Room brought to you by the KTOB, the Kentucky Thoroughbred owners and breeders.
00:28:50And congratulations to the Kentucky Bread, Tam Tam, the winner of the Grade 1 Queen Elizabeth
00:28:55II Challenge Cup at Keeneland.
00:28:57Tam Tam, owned by Richard Rigney's Rigney Racing, bred by Stone Street Train, by Phil Bauer.
00:29:04And as we have said, pre-entries were drawn today and of 11, today as we tape this, and
00:29:10of the 11 pre-entered in the Breeders' Cup Classic, the total Kentucky Breads are nine.
00:29:16Kentucky has had 262 Breeders' Cup winners over the years, including six last year, of
00:29:22course, more than any other state or region, and 29 winners of the Breeders' Cup Classic
00:29:29alone.
00:29:56We all win.
00:30:01On this week's edition of First Things First, I caught up with jockey Adrian Escobedo,
00:30:07who will ride Domain Expansion in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies.
00:30:16This is perhaps your favorite horse of all time right now, isn't it, Adrian?
00:30:21Yes, this is a dream come true.
00:30:24We're going to the Breeders' Cup, she's just an amazing feeling.
00:30:28She's very professional, she does everything very smooth too, so when you ask her to go,
00:30:33she just, you can feel the power in her, so I've never felt that before, so she's just amazing.
00:30:39Take me back to the beginning on how you actually got the mount on Domain Expansion.
00:30:46It was crazy.
00:30:47So, I always go to the karaoke expecting to get a mount like this.
00:30:52The first year, I went…
00:30:53Hold on.
00:30:53At Jockey Karaoke, you expect to get a mount?
00:30:56Every single year.
00:30:58But this last year, I just went for fun, because it's always fun to go there, and it's for a
00:31:03great cause.
00:31:04And I happened to see Matt next to my boss, and I just asked him, hey, do you guys want
00:31:10a drink?
00:31:11Because I was actually supposed to put him in my list for that day, and I got there late,
00:31:16so, and I was just trying to be polite or just apologize in a way.
00:31:22So, I said if they wanted a drink, they said yes, and I wasn't expecting much of it, and
00:31:26next thing you know, I see I was riding a Philly for Leonard Powell, and it was just because
00:31:30of that drink, thanks to that night, Matt remembered, and I totally forgot about that
00:31:37day.
00:31:38And that's how I got this mount, so, and I was just surprised, like, how am I riding
00:31:42for Leonard Powell?
00:31:43He's an amazing horseman, and, but I normally, I'm only waiting for him probably once or twice
00:31:48before this, and just to see that I was going to ride for him was just kind of weird, so,
00:31:53I was just blessed to get that out.
00:31:55So, you rode a great race on this Philly.
00:31:58It seemed like you had all the confidence in the world.
00:32:01Oh, yes.
00:32:02Because you could feel the power under her.
00:32:05The first time she broke in the air, I don't know if she was just, you know, got a little
00:32:10spooked when they opened the gates, but she positioned herself well in the first turn.
00:32:16In the second turn, I moved her a little early, got into some trouble, but then I felt, we got
00:32:20second that day.
00:32:21So, the second time, she broke super sharp.
00:32:23She was, she had a perfect shirt.
00:32:26So, when I moved her, it was just, it was just, you know, it was just one move.
00:32:29She was just, I really knew what she, she's just very talented, very athletic, you know,
00:32:34so.
00:32:35So, Breeders' Cup, how excited are you, Adrian?
00:32:37Very excited.
00:32:38I still can't believe it until I see my name, but I'm very excited.
00:32:42It's just, it's just, it's just a dream come true.
00:32:46You know, I've always, I've always wanted to ride big races, and this is my first time,
00:32:51my first time going into a beer's Cup.
00:32:53Can you sing us a song?
00:32:55Oh, of course.
00:32:55People might wonder why you didn't start riding so late.
00:32:58You were actually a mariachi singer.
00:33:00Yes, I used to do mariachi in banda for a lot of years, so.
00:33:05So, I'm going to sing, one of my favorite songs is Caballo de Patas Blancas.
00:33:09It goes,
00:33:09Caballo de Patas Blancas, con herraduras de acero.
00:33:17Te vas a brincar en las trancas, antes que salga el lucero.
00:33:23Y vas a llevar enancas, a la mujer que más quiero, a la mujer que más quiero.
00:33:36Cancelosa.
00:33:42Really, really enjoyed doing that interview.
00:33:44What a classy filly she is, and what a great guy.
00:33:47And guys, he can really sing.
00:33:50And Zoe, what a great story.
00:33:52He can sing, he can ride.
00:33:53And you know what?
00:33:54We're always pulling for the little guy.
00:33:56Isn't it nice to see someone like this get not only a mountain in the Breeders' Cup,
00:34:00but a mountain on a live horse?
00:34:02Randy, can you sing like that?
00:34:03In the stall, giving the horse some love.
00:34:05If you're looking for a rooting interest in the Breeders' Cup, that's it right there.
00:34:10Adrienne Escobedo.
00:34:11Absolutely.
00:34:12Couldn't agree with you more.
00:34:13Okay, let's move on and talk about Santa Anita this weekend.
00:34:16Have a lot to unpack.
00:34:17It is the Pumpkin Fall Festival.
00:34:20Come on out.
00:34:21Pick a pumpkin.
00:34:21You can even bring your dogs as long as it's a wiener dog.
00:34:25We have the Halloweena races back by special demand for Sue Finley.
00:34:29I know this is her favorite time of year.
00:34:31And we'll also have Japan Family Fun Day.
00:34:34You can dress up in your favorite cosplay outfit.
00:34:37Join us at Santa Anita this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
00:34:42We're welcoming now the Gaines Way Guest of the Week and his trainer, Wesley Ward.
00:34:46Wesley, thanks for joining us and a good time to have you on because you look like you have a
00:34:51very good horse, among others, in this year's Breeders' Cup.
00:34:55And, of course, I'm talking about Baccio.
00:34:57I'm famous for butchering names, so I hope I got the pronunciation right.
00:35:01But he will be the heavy favorite in the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint.
00:35:04And I know trainers hate this question, but I'm going to ask it anyways.
00:35:08You've had so many good horses, so many fast horses, the Golden Pals of the world, the No-Nay-Nevers
00:35:15of the world.
00:35:16How does this guy compare?
00:35:18He's got a nearly unbeaten record.
00:35:20He's very, very fast, and he has an extreme desire to stay in front when he gets there.
00:35:28So that puts him right up there.
00:35:32So tell me a little bit more about him, how you came across him.
00:35:37I know he's a homebred for the owners that are still in.
00:35:40I know Tori and Jimbo and several others.
00:35:42Talk me through his progression and winning the Nunthorpe States, because that's pretty damn amazing.
00:35:49Yeah, he took a little time.
00:35:53Tori is the one that gave me the horse.
00:35:55She chose me as a trainer, which I'm extremely grateful as any trainer could be that trains a guy like
00:36:00this.
00:36:03And they've been very patient with him, because when he came up, he had some shins, just like a lot
00:36:09of the two-year-olds do when they come from a two-year-old training sale.
00:36:11So we gave him plenty of time.
00:36:16And he was training here in Keeneland, and I sort of looked for a race for him that he could
00:36:24kind of push through, because I didn't train him very hard because of his shins, and just kind of got
00:36:29him there.
00:36:29And I had him about 80%, 85% fit and completely sound.
00:36:36And I thought, well, let me run this guy about 80%, 85% fit in a maybe not Saratoga or
00:36:43somewhere where he'd have to be 110% fit.
00:36:46And we found a race at Monmouth Park.
00:36:49So we sent him to Monmouth, and we secured the services of my old buddy, the great Frankie Dettori.
00:36:58And Ron Anderson said, yeah, sure, we'd like to go down and ride him.
00:37:02And so Frankie decided the night before that he'd have a night out on the town in New York City
00:37:08from riding there at Saratoga.
00:37:11And I think he had a little bit too great of a night out on the town in Saratoga because
00:37:16my great friend Cliff, who's a clock collier, as he was calling him, because I think he woke up a
00:37:23little late.
00:37:23By the time he got to the chalk room, we had about 11 minutes to spare by the time he
00:37:27got on and checked in for the race.
00:37:31And we put the saddle on, and off we went with Frankie, and he won.
00:37:36And it was from there, he ran a really good race, nothing like he has shown since.
00:37:43But we were kind of maybe looking for the Breeders' Cup, and so we sent him out to Blake, to
00:37:50Blake Heap, my assistant trainer for 35 years, out to California with him.
00:37:55And he got him ready for the race, and we got Juan Hernandez to ride on the day, as Frankie
00:38:02was committed elsewhere.
00:38:04And he led every step of the way but the last one.
00:38:07That horse came up, just nipped him right on the wire.
00:38:09And so we trained forward to the Breeders' Cup, running second in the Speakeasy out there, the Breeders' Cup prep
00:38:14in California.
00:38:17And unfortunately, we didn't get in.
00:38:19And so there was an allowance race the following day, Sunday, and he just ran off and hid from him.
00:38:25He just showed his talent that day, really did.
00:38:28And so I talked to Tori and the partners, she talked to the partners, I talked to Tori and told
00:38:32her.
00:38:33I said, I think it's best that we kind of maybe put him away now and gear towards next year,
00:38:38because he's done enough.
00:38:40There was an allowance race at Churchill just before the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:47And I had a three-year-old against older, which always is very, very difficult, April of a three-year
00:38:53-old's year.
00:38:55And so I went ahead and put an apprentice on, Yetsid Hazelwood, and he was riding in Maryland.
00:39:02I thought we could take advantage of the lightweight and see how the weight came up.
00:39:07And unfortunately, Yetsid couldn't come in to make the race.
00:39:10So we were left without a rider.
00:39:12And Bob Baffert's jockey, Juan Hernandez, was there.
00:39:18And so we put him up.
00:39:22And fortunately for us, the race didn't come up with a lot of speed, which is, you know, especially with
00:39:29all the older horses in there,
00:39:30there just wasn't a lot of speed in there, which you don't see very often in a five-and-a
00:39:35-half furlong,
00:39:35two other than allowance.
00:39:37And so he bounced out there, and ooh, he really kind of, I said, wow, we got something here.
00:39:43That's when I really seen that we really had something when he beat older horses in an allowance race in
00:39:48April.
00:39:49We decided to go on to Royal Ascot, and that's when my racehorse, you know, we also talked to them.
00:39:57They were involved.
00:39:58And with my daughter-in-law, Caitlin Dunn, who she was the driving force behind my racehorse getting in,
00:40:07and we went over.
00:40:08And I just thought, as good as he was training from that win, that we had a big, big chance
00:40:14in that race.
00:40:18And he just ran on the day, and the conditions fit him perfect.
00:40:23The Nunthorpe is a race that sort of eluded me over there.
00:40:25I won a lot of the major sprints, but yet that one I haven't won.
00:40:28We were second with a two-year-old against old Philly, Acapulco, years back, because you get such a huge
00:40:35weight break.
00:40:36I went over and rode her for me years back.
00:40:39And then Frankie rode Lady Aurelia for me, and second again.
00:40:44And Frankie thought he won.
00:40:45And he, you know, in just a millimeter, he got beat.
00:40:49And so for one road, he flew in from Del Mar, and he rode such a tremendous ride.
00:40:56It was great to see him do it again.
00:40:58He's just a great rider.
00:40:59I, you know, the few times I've rode him over the years, he's rode great races, and I can see
00:41:04why he's Bob's number one rider.
00:41:07Wesley, you mentioned that this horse has ample early speed, and that is his weapon.
00:41:13In the Breeders' Cup turf sprint, there was plenty of other speed in the race, Joe.
00:41:19Shiesty comes to mind.
00:41:21Do you have only one way of going?
00:41:23Can he rate?
00:41:24You know, what's the strategy in a race that's loaded with speed like this?
00:41:29He only knows one way, you know, and he's really a good gate horse.
00:41:33Like, when they say go, he's gone.
00:41:35The first few strides away from that gate, he's quick and fast and agile.
00:41:41So, you know, a lot will determine the first few strides out of the break, you know, who's in front
00:41:47and on the lead.
00:41:48And then whoever is on Joe Shiesty or whoever else, because, you know, it's not, their rider will have to
00:41:55make a determination as well as ours if ours gets away slow.
00:41:58So, you know, that'll be the rider's decision for, you know, the first quarter mile of the race.
00:42:06Wesley, you sent your main group of horses out to Keeneland yesterday to work over to the turf course, and
00:42:12there are varying reports.
00:42:14The turf was soft.
00:42:15It was boggy.
00:42:16It was slow.
00:42:17How did he work?
00:42:18Because his work doesn't jump off the page time-wise.
00:42:21It was 1.04 or something, I think.
00:42:24Yeah, the final time was 1.04.
00:42:26He, and it was everything that you just described.
00:42:31And every one of my horses did the same as him.
00:42:34I think he was the fastest of the day at the distance.
00:42:38But he kind of ripped off there and went 22 seconds the first quarter with Julio Garcia, my main rider
00:42:44that's rode, worked in the morning, no name ever.
00:42:48And Golden Pal, every time they've ever worked, he's freezed them.
00:42:52And he was very happy with it.
00:42:54And what he does when he works horses is, as well as my other horse, Nakatomi, he'll let them get
00:43:01outworked.
00:43:03A lot of the time, he'll be on 10 lengths the best, and it's kind of almost like an antelope,
00:43:07you know, in front of a lion.
00:43:08He'll just sit there, and at the end of the work, you know, the lion knows he could have got
00:43:12them at any time.
00:43:14So when Julio, when they want to go, he kind of gets them to settle.
00:43:19That's the magic in that boy's hands.
00:43:21He's really something.
00:43:22And so he did that with each and every work leading up to all these races with Baccio.
00:43:30And, again, what he did yesterday, he just kind of felt like it was kind of tough for him to
00:43:33get a hold of it.
00:43:35So he, you know, he just let him do his thing, and that's what he's done, each and every work.
00:43:42Wesley, you will be the heavy favorite in the race, as I mentioned earlier.
00:43:46Already odds on in the betting being taking place over in England.
00:43:49But you've got a pretty tough foe that you have to handle, and Comanche Brave has won two straight Group
00:43:551 races.
00:43:56You, among all U.S. trainers, have a better understanding than perhaps anybody of how good these European horses are.
00:44:03Is he your main competition, and is he somebody that might keep you up at night?
00:44:09Well, he's not going to keep me up at night.
00:44:11You know, at one time he would have early on in my career, but now that I've got white hair
00:44:15here, you know, I understand it is what it is.
00:44:18So we are only in control of our horse, and we're going to try to, you know, get him to
00:44:24the race the best way possible.
00:44:26Right now there's nothing to do other than to just kind of lead him over there.
00:44:30He's doing phenomenal.
00:44:32He's feeling a million dollars when he gets onto the track.
00:44:35He's eating the bottom out of the feed tub.
00:44:38You know, the only issue would have been, as you said, a boggy track, whereas he handled that in New
00:44:45York.
00:44:46But this, with the sunshine here all week long, my farm, I was just out there this morning, and it's
00:44:54hard and firm.
00:44:56And so I would only imagine that Keeneland's turf course, you know, with all, I don't see any rain in
00:45:02the forecast all the way through the Breeders' Cup.
00:45:04So I would imagine it's going to be fast and firm on the day.
00:45:08Who else do you have in?
00:45:10I know it seemed to me that nobody took the Indian Summer Stakes into consideration at all, because none of
00:45:16those horses got in.
00:45:18Even the winner, Adonius, who was so impressive, didn't get in.
00:45:21Who else did you get in to Breeders' Cup?
00:45:24You pre-entered a bunch, but which ones are you?
00:45:26Unfortunately, I had a really nice filly in Rueva, and Rueva, she didn't get in as well.
00:45:35She's on the also, but I ran her as well in the Indian Summer.
00:45:40She won her first start with Juan, and then she ended up going to the Queen Mary, which she was
00:45:47third.
00:45:48And I took her to the Sorrento, and she was, Bob beat me right on the line with his filly.
00:45:53And our plan was to kind of rest her up after three runs and train her into the Breeders' Cup
00:46:01Juvenile here on the grass.
00:46:04And I made a call out to my good friend, Martin Panza, and he reached out and he said,
00:46:10Wesley, you're no sure thing to get in here.
00:46:11He said, you may have to run.
00:46:13So I really wasn't prepared for the race, but my only shot to get a hopeful berth into the race
00:46:21with her, you know,
00:46:23being a second in the Sorrento and a third at Royal Ascot was to run.
00:46:27So I ran a little bit of a short horse, and she ran great.
00:46:30We entered, and we're on the also as well.
00:46:33So other than that, we have None Hudson that's on the also against Baccio, and we have Nakatomi.
00:46:45All right, so Leslie, let's talk about Nakatomi, because he looks like the ultimate horse for course.
00:46:51Five for eight at Keeneland.
00:46:53He wins the Phoenix as the prep for this.
00:46:55How much of a factor is the Keeneland factor in how well this horse runs?
00:47:01And what are you expecting from him in the Breeders' Cup Sprint?
00:47:04He's a warrior, and he loves his job.
00:47:07He loves being a racehorse.
00:47:08I don't like to run him back too quick.
00:47:11That's one of the reasons for his longevity is I space his races out and give him the winners off.
00:47:16He goes back to Fergus Galvin's Hunter Valley Farm where Elle Marie rides him bareback, his daughter.
00:47:25But, you know, so running back quick is a little bit of a question mark.
00:47:30But if you've seen him, the way he pulled up out of his most recent work, he's bucking and kicking
00:47:35like he's a two-year-old.
00:47:36So if that's any indication how he's going to do, you know, we're happy with that.
00:47:44And he's, you know, Breeders' Cup Sprint is a very tough race each and every year.
00:47:50But this guy's doing very, very well, and it's his home court.
00:47:54You know, any time you play on your own home court, you have an advantage in any sport, and especially
00:47:59horse racing.
00:48:01Wesley, you're a very busy man.
00:48:03Can you give us an overview of what the next few months looks like for you?
00:48:07Are you in the middle of breaking horses?
00:48:09How many yearlings do you have?
00:48:11Do you still get on some of them yourself?
00:48:13I know you used to say you were the first one on each of their backs.
00:48:16Like, what does it look like?
00:48:17It seems like you're all over the place.
00:48:19You just vanned a horse in to your barn there yourself.
00:48:22You've got horses all over the place.
00:48:25I wouldn't say all over the place.
00:48:26I have everything here just right behind Keelan.
00:48:32And I do break.
00:48:33I just got off a horse earlier this afternoon.
00:48:36I try to get on them just in the stall and in the barn.
00:48:39And, you know, some of the ones that are a little unruly, I'll take them up and down outside in
00:48:43the paddocks until I pass them over to my guys.
00:48:46But I do like to get on them all.
00:48:48And you really get a good feel of what you have underneath you when you've been doing it so long.
00:48:55But I'm coming to the end of my season here.
00:48:58I know a lot of guys kick on there at the other jurisdictions.
00:49:02But I kind of learned by going over to your home country there in England that, you know, they put
00:49:07them away after the Breeders' Cup and, you know, and the champion races, champion races over there.
00:49:14I do the same.
00:49:16Wesley, there's another Breeders' Cup horse we haven't mentioned.
00:49:19It's a Centric who gets in off one of the Win In You're In races in South America.
00:49:24First of all, she's cross-centered for the Philly Mayor Turf and the Turf.
00:49:27So part one, which race are you planning to go in?
00:49:31And frankly, these Win In You're In horses from South America have not fared very well in the Breeders' Cup
00:49:37over the last many years.
00:49:38Can this horse surprise people?
00:49:42Well, my good friend, Fernando Diaz, he gave me the horse and training it for Don Alberto, for Carlos Heller
00:49:51and his family.
00:49:52And she's a beautiful Philly.
00:49:54And she's, you know, highly accomplished in Chile, in her homeland.
00:50:01She came here a couple months ago, and we gave her a little time to get over, you know, from
00:50:06the Southern Hemisphere to Northern Hemisphere.
00:50:09And she's just a sweetheart of Affiliated Train with no antics or no issues or no problems.
00:50:14And just other than just giving her the time for herself, she didn't need it.
00:50:18We put a couple months of just galloping into her.
00:50:21And then we started her work schedule.
00:50:23And she just kicked right on each work, getting better and better.
00:50:27Whether that's good enough to win the Breeders' Cup, I don't know.
00:50:30But she has no issues or problems.
00:50:32And, you know, the training is straightforward with her.
00:50:37Once she got over to the grass, she seemed to do better on the grass than the Keeneland main surface
00:50:41here of the dirt.
00:50:42And she's had several works on the grass.
00:50:45So, you know, it's kind of a first race, jumping in with the lions is tough.
00:50:50But, you know, I wish we had time to have a prep for her and kind of let her kind
00:50:56of ease into America.
00:50:58But we don't.
00:50:59And, you know, fitness-wise, she's ready to go.
00:51:03But it would have been nice to have a couple preps.
00:51:05I want to know if you could tell me off the top of your head, who's the best yearling you've
00:51:11got right now?
00:51:12You're in the middle of breaking season and you say you get on them and you feel them.
00:51:17Who's the best one you've got so far?
00:51:18Yeah.
00:51:20Well, I do get on them, but these are homebreds.
00:51:25These are homebreds.
00:51:26These are all, you know, hootenannies and that I own the sire as a fun thing to do with my
00:51:33own mares.
00:51:34And the ones that I, all the horses that I bought out of the sale, I don't start with them
00:51:38until about mid-December, somewhere around December 15th.
00:51:42I just kick them all out and leave them in the paddocks there.
00:51:46We ride them the very first day they come in, December 15th, for about one minute or less in the
00:51:51stall.
00:51:51And I try to put, when they come in, they come in whoever they're in paddock with, so five together.
00:51:56So I'll bring them in and I'll put the two buddies together in the stall.
00:52:01In the same stall?
00:52:03In the same stall.
00:52:04And they were turned out together, so I put them in the same stall together.
00:52:08And this way they have a friend with them.
00:52:09It's not like a man against a horse.
00:52:11It only took me about 25 years to figure that out.
00:52:14And they're much easier to break.
00:52:16And we only ride them for about a minute the first day.
00:52:18So they never get hot or never get any bad, you know, too much on one day.
00:52:24We ride them for one minute.
00:52:25And then the second day, we do the same thing.
00:52:27We bring one into the other stall and we ride each horse for about a minute in the stall
00:52:31to where they, you know, for the first time they ever have someone on their back,
00:52:36they have their friend right beside them.
00:52:38And then we switch the saddle to the other horse.
00:52:40And then by the third or fourth day, we just lead them out.
00:52:43And we do the same thing.
00:52:44We just walk them up and down the shed reel.
00:52:46And then the fourth or fifth day, we jog them up and down the shed reel with a rider on
00:52:50them.
00:52:50And then the fifth or sixth day, they head right to the racetrack.
00:52:53Wow.
00:52:54Now, the ones of mine are completely different.
00:52:57They've never had a person on them.
00:52:58They've never been in a stall.
00:52:59So they're as wild as horses are.
00:53:01And they take a little bit more time than the sales babies.
00:53:04So we start on those.
00:53:05That's what we're, we start all those in September.
00:53:09Very good.
00:53:10Well, Wesley, thank you so much for your time, for being the Gainesway Guest of the Week.
00:53:13And best of luck in the Breeders' Cup.
00:53:15And especially with Bacio, what an exciting horse he is.
00:53:18And we'll be looking for him on Saturday at Keeneland, a week from Saturday,
00:53:23as well as Nakatomi and Eccentric.
00:53:26And once again, thanks for joining us.
00:53:28And best of luck.
00:53:29Thank you very much, Bill.
00:53:30Thanks, Zoe.
00:53:31You take care.
00:53:32Guest of the Week.
00:53:33Nick Wesley Ward came to you courtesy of Gainesway, home to top stallions such as Olympiad.
00:53:40Last week, we told you about the Winners' Olympiad.
00:53:42It's been racking up a total that now stands at 13 winning two-year-olds this year.
00:53:48He is now a top five freshman sire with three black-tie horses and progeny earnings of over $1.5
00:53:55million.
00:53:55Those offspring figure to be versatile in the future.
00:53:59Olympiad himself won from seven furlongs to a mile and a quarter.
00:54:05He has two Breeders' Cup prospects, Citrus Springs and Roscoe Goose.
00:54:10And Olympiad's 2027 fee will be set following the Breeders' Cup.
00:54:15Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:54:32Olympiad gets the gold in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:54:48Two states, two legendary tracks, one incredible day of spring racing.
00:54:53At Flemington, the mighty Cox Plate, the wait-for-age championship of the world,
00:54:58where only the very best get to write their name in history.
00:55:01And at Ramwick, the stars of tomorrow arrive as the season's finest young talent
00:55:06chase Group 1 glory on Spring Champion Stakes Day.
00:55:09This is Australian spring racing at its very best.
00:55:13Live from Melbourne and Sydney, don't miss a moment.
00:55:20The Pennsylvania Breeding Program is the best program in the country.
00:55:25The stallion awards, the owner bonuses,
00:55:28also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania Breeds.
00:55:32Last year, 321 Pennsylvania breeders earned Breeders' Awards.
00:55:3722 Pennsylvania breeders earned over $100,000.
00:55:41We have the best program in the country.
00:55:45Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.
00:55:48Learn more at pabread.com.
00:55:51And the TDN Riders Room also brought to you by our good friends at the PHBA,
00:55:55the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:55:58The grade one, Darley Alcibiades winner, emphatic, a Pennsylvania bred who will be
00:56:04the favorite in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies.
00:56:06Bred by John Marshall.
00:56:08Returned to the work tab on Friday at Keeneland,
00:56:10breezing four furlongs in 48.80 seconds.
00:56:13She will carry the hopes of the whole state of Pennsylvania at the Breeders' Cup.
00:56:18Meanwhile, over at Parks, the wind machine Lady Annabelle, bred by Luana Johnson,
00:56:23took home her seventh straight victory.
00:56:26That was in the Commonwealth Sire's Stakes for Pennsylvania Bread.
00:56:29So congratulations to Lady Annabelle's connections.
00:56:33And to learn more about the PA Bread program, you can contact Brian Sanfurtillo at 610-444-1050
00:56:40or point your browser to pabread.com.
00:56:44I've always wanted to say that.
00:56:45Point your browser.
00:56:46And welcome back.
00:56:48And remember last week, we had Jason Withamon as a handicapper that represents Sky Racing.
00:56:53And he gave us a great preview primarily of the Everest, the richest turf race run in the world over
00:57:00in Australia.
00:57:0120 million Australian dollars, which is roughly 13.9 million U.S. dollars.
00:57:06It's some serious change.
00:57:07And the old adage, it came through again.
00:57:10There's no such thing as a sure thing in horse racing.
00:57:13Kai Ying Rising going for 22 straight, could not get it done, was beaten by Tempted.
00:57:20So quite an upset.
00:57:22And Jason wanted to get our opinion on how he thinks horses like Tempted and Kai Ying Rising would fare
00:57:29in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint if they were to come over.
00:57:34And Randy, in the exchanges we've had, I think you're going to answer this the same way.
00:57:40The answer is I don't know.
00:57:41And I mean, these are obviously quality horses.
00:57:45You're not going to get a bunch of bums running for $13.9 million.
00:57:50But it's just very hard to read because Kai Ying Rising has only run outside of Hong Kong twice in
00:57:57his career, both in the race in the Everest.
00:58:01First, we don't see the Hong Kong Australian horses come over here, and our horses don't go over there.
00:58:07So it's unlike with Europe.
00:58:08We don't really have any way to compare them.
00:58:11But I would assume they would be very tough.
00:58:14They'd be very good horses.
00:58:16But, you know, sorry, Jason.
00:58:18My answer is I don't know.
00:58:20I would assume that if Kai Ying Rising was coming over for the Breeders' Cup turf sprint, Baccio or no
00:58:29Baccio, Kai Ying Rising would probably be a pretty solid favorite.
00:58:32And since Tempted, the filly, by the way, beat Kai Ying Rising, then obviously I think she would be a
00:58:39top candidate over here as well.
00:58:41I mean, it's not like the turf sprinters we have in this country are, you know, are the best in
00:58:48the world or anything like that, turf horses in general.
00:58:51And by the way, Zoe can talk more about this.
00:58:53What a weekend for a good dolphin.
00:58:55Tempted, owned by a good dolphin, Australia.
00:58:57And she was only beaten a length by Kai Ying Rising in the Everest last year.
00:59:01So it's not like it's some massive shock.
00:59:03Yeah, it's not like she just came in there out of nowhere.
00:59:06She was a very good filly.
00:59:08They pointed her to this race.
00:59:10Kieran Meyer, one of the best trainers in the world, not just Australia.
00:59:14He is absolutely fantastic.
00:59:16And he pointed this filly to the race.
00:59:18He was very confident.
00:59:19She sat a beautiful inside trip the whole way.
00:59:23Zach Parton was parked six wide on Kai Ying Rising.
00:59:26I know a lot of people may be bitching and moaning about his ride.
00:59:30I wonder what Randy's got to say about that.
00:59:33Because he was very wide the whole way.
00:59:35He looked like the horse didn't really handle the ground on the turn.
00:59:38He kind of spun his wheels coming off the turn, I thought.
00:59:40But he was beaten soundly by a head.
00:59:45But that's where the wire is.
00:59:46I will say one thing.
00:59:48David Hayes, the trainer, what an absolute class act.
00:59:53Every single news reporter outlet, racing outlet, interviewed him after the race.
00:59:59And he answered every single question.
01:00:01He said he loved the race, but hated the outcome.
01:00:04And it was simple as that.
01:00:06He was in front, a jump after the wire.
01:00:08He just came up a head short.
01:00:10I don't think he lost anything in defeat, but that filly was marvelous.
01:00:14And without question, she could definitely run over here.
01:00:17They'd be the one-two favorites.
01:00:18No problem whatsoever.
01:00:21Has Zach Parton ridden Kai Ying Rising in every one of his races?
01:00:25Yeah.
01:00:26He's won 20 of 22.
01:00:29I think so.
01:00:30Look, I will occasionally criticize jockeys if I see something, if I can absolutely pinpoint
01:00:40something that they've done purposely that I think is a tactical mistake.
01:00:46But in this scenario, I mean, he was letting her place herself where she was comfortable,
01:00:52where she wanted to run, apparently, probably like he's done in every one of his previous
01:00:56races.
01:00:57And he just wasn't responding as well and as quickly as he has in the past.
01:01:05They were all surprised that Kai Ying Rising was as far back as he was.
01:01:08But I can't blame Zach Parton for that.
01:01:10And after all, I mean, he gets beat, what, this far?
01:01:13Yeah.
01:01:13He got a high draw.
01:01:15He got 11 and the filly got one.
01:01:18So she just sat in the pocket trip the whole way, had an absolute dream, dream trip.
01:01:23And, you know, if you consider the ground loss, he was the best horse in the race.
01:01:28Simple as that.
01:01:30All right.
01:01:30So the action continues over in Australia.
01:01:33It's a big time of year for them.
01:01:34They're springtime carnival racing.
01:01:36Of course, it's spring over there, fall here.
01:01:38And the big race coming up on Friday night, U.S. time, Saturday in Australia, is the Cox's
01:01:45Plate.
01:01:45And Sir Delius is the favorite in their wide open race.
01:01:49That was the race that the Great Winks won four times.
01:01:54And even Farlap, way back in the day, won that race as well.
01:01:58So, guys, I want to, before we end up, I want to segue to one more thing.
01:02:02The annual report of Mayor's Bread came out this week from the Jockey Club.
01:02:07And it seems to be the same old story every year.
01:02:10Fall crop down again.
01:02:12They're projecting a fall crop of 16,500 for 2027.
01:02:17But there was one thing in there that kind of stood out to me as I did my writing for
01:02:23the Thoroughbred Daily News, is that it looks like the real problem is not Kentucky.
01:02:29Now, the numbers are down there a little bit.
01:02:31But we see what's happening.
01:02:33The sales with the gunrunners, the into mischiefs, and the Nyquist, et cetera, of the world.
01:02:38I mean, people can't breed enough to these horses.
01:02:40But here's a statistic that I thought was very telling.
01:02:44Now, you could go back 20 years.
01:02:45First of all, of the total mayor's bread, and this is all North America, so it includes
01:02:50Canada and Puerto Rico, 69.68% of mayor's bread were bred in the state of Kentucky.
01:02:56Twenty-five years, excuse me, 20 years ago, that number was 35.4.
01:03:02So you see how the breeding industry has shifted so far to Kentucky.
01:03:06And the losers are the non-Kentucky states.
01:03:10The ones that really are suffering are the ones you would think might be suffering, where
01:03:15people don't have a ton of confidence in the future of racing in places like Florida,
01:03:21California, obviously Illinois.
01:03:24Texas is another one.
01:03:26New Jersey is another one.
01:03:28But there was...
01:03:29So what do we do?
01:03:30How do we get the regional programs to do better or to breed more?
01:03:36The exception is New York.
01:03:37They're doing great.
01:03:38But two people took to Twitter...
01:03:41I did it again.
01:03:42X, X.
01:03:44Elon's going to be mad at me.
01:03:45God damn it.
01:03:47With suggestions.
01:03:48One of them was Tom Ryan from First Row Partners.
01:03:50And he suggested that in the mid-Atlantic states, they should allow the state breads from, you
01:03:57know, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, et cetera, to run in races for all the state
01:04:04breads from the region.
01:04:05I thought that was interesting.
01:04:07Mike Rapoli, who spends a lot of time on X, as we know, he also had an interesting suggestion,
01:04:13says there should be a Breeders' Cup race for fillies and for males for excluding Kentucky.
01:04:21Are these things practical?
01:04:23Maybe, maybe not.
01:04:24But Zoe, again, if there's going to be a solution to this, and maybe there just isn't, maybe
01:04:29this is the way of the world now, and the bull crop's going to keep going down year after
01:04:33year after year.
01:04:34But if there is a solution, the focus probably does need to be on the regional programs.
01:04:39How do we get people to breed more in these states that are not named Kentucky?
01:04:45What Mike Rapoli said, I thought, was brilliant.
01:04:49Absolutely brilliant.
01:04:49Have a Breeders' Cup race or a series of stakes races for non-Kentucky breads, and you have
01:04:57to pick a spot, and they ship all over the country.
01:05:00Why not?
01:05:01I know when we're buying horses at the yearling sales and two-year-old sales, we have to make
01:05:05a preference for Kentucky breads, especially with the inception of Kentucky Downs and the
01:05:10Astronomical Purses.
01:05:11The only one that is a bonus as well are the New York breads.
01:05:16Other than that, no one really, Virginia breads, Virginia certified, that's a very good program
01:05:21as well.
01:05:21So you're looking for these states, but predominantly you're looking for a Kentucky bread because
01:05:27people want Kentucky breads.
01:05:29Otherwise, they're running for half the money, which is still a lot of money, but it's just
01:05:33not enough.
01:05:34So I think that's absolutely brilliant.
01:05:36Let's have a series of races for non-Kentucky breads and up the regional markets.
01:05:42I'm not sure where you'd do it or how you would do it, but I thought that was a great
01:05:46idea.
01:05:47Why not?
01:05:48This is not my area of expertise.
01:05:50Zoe has forgotten more about this topic than I've ever known.
01:05:54But for me, looking at it from 35,000 feet, I think it all comes down to economics.
01:05:59It's not just the United States.
01:06:02Right now, it's big news in England and in Ireland that the full crop is down and continuing
01:06:07to be down in both of those countries as well.
01:06:10And I think it really comes down to the fact that the small-time breeders, who were never
01:06:14really as a whole getting rich to begin with, are having more trouble making ends meet and
01:06:20too many of them are losing money.
01:06:23I mean, New York, the breeding industry is going great guns.
01:06:26New York breads are really hitting it off well.
01:06:29Pennsylvania, look at all the money that the Pennsylvania breads are running for.
01:06:33It's crazy, the breeders' bonuses and things like that.
01:06:36But elsewhere, there are still too many breeders, even in Kentucky, that are breeding cheaper
01:06:43horses that can no longer make ends meet the way that they used to be able to.
01:06:49And so they're not breeding as many horses.
01:06:51The voice of reason every week, every time.
01:06:55There you have it.
01:06:56Randy Moss, folks.
01:06:57Well, it's an ongoing story, and it's a story that doesn't change.
01:07:03Every year, the full crop goes down.
01:07:04And we all know what that means for horse racing, small fields, and racetracks that can only
01:07:11card maybe two or three programs a week at the most.
01:07:14So I'm not smart enough to have any solutions, but we'll see what happens.
01:07:19And I do agree with Zoe.
01:07:20I think Mr. Rapoli came up with a very good idea.
01:07:24So maybe someone will listen.
01:07:26And if not, Mike will yell and scream some more until they do listen, because we know
01:07:31that is his style.
01:07:33The TDN Writer's Room Work of the Week is brought to you by Fast TV.
01:07:36Now, Gold Phoenix worked five furlongs in company on the Santa Anita training track in 59.80 seconds
01:07:44on Friday.
01:07:45His trainer, Phil D'Amato, called it a good drill, saying this was his heavy lifting work,
01:07:49and he'll have one more easy work next week before he ships to Lexington.
01:07:54He is pre-entered in the $5 million Breeders' Cup turf, making what would be his fifth straight
01:08:00appearance in the race.
01:08:02Last year, he was fifth at Del Mar.
01:08:04He was most recently fourth in the Del Mar Handicap on August the 29th.
01:08:09Just a side note, while he is pre-entered, he's actually seventh on the also eligible,
01:08:15something I'm not sure anybody was expecting.
01:08:21Be a smarter better with First TV, the best horses.
01:08:27With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
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01:09:12West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:09:16Visit westpointtv.com.
01:09:20Boy, have our sponsors at West Point Thoroughbreds been having fun since last fall with a couple
01:09:25of fillies from the same crop.
01:09:27Super Corridora and Counting Stars.
01:09:31Super Corridora, of course, won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies last year, earning her
01:09:34an Eclipse Award as the champion two-year-old filly.
01:09:37Counting Stars got off to a little bit of a slow start this season, but now she's emerged
01:09:41as a leading three-year-old filly with two grade one victories and a second place finish
01:09:45recently in the Spinster Stakes against older fillies and mares.
01:09:50Now, Counting Stars is getting a well-deserved break.
01:09:52And Super Corridora, well, she's back on top of her game after winning the grade two
01:09:56Zenyatta Stakes, and she will now run in the Breeders' Cup Distaff at Keeneland.
01:10:01Credit Bloodstock agent David N'Gordo for helping West Point identify and acquire both Super
01:10:06Corridora and Counting Stars.
01:10:08Super Corridora at the Keeneland September yearling sale and Counting Stars at OBS April
01:10:14at sale of two-year-olds and training.
01:10:18All right, so that is a wrap on this week's show.
01:10:20I want to thank our Gainesway guest of the week, Wesley Ward.
01:10:23I also want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:10:26As I say each and every week, I want to thank the people who work so hard behind the scenes
01:10:30are the real stars of the show.
01:10:32That's Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:10:36Next week, our Breeders' Cup Handicapping show on the TDN Riders from Podcast presented
01:10:40by Keeneland.