- 1 day ago
Legendary trainer Bill Mott was riding high on this week's TDN Writers Room as he reflected on a job well done after Sovereignty's win in the Breeders' Cup Classic. He discussed what it means to have a champion leave his barn and answered the much-debated question of Sovereignty vs. Cigar. The Writers' Room team also recapped the entire Breeders' Cup weekend.
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00:00:18And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast presented by Keeneland.
00:00:23And this is, of course, our Breeders' Cup wrap-up.
00:00:26My name is Bill Finley, and I am a correspondent.
00:00:28The Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:31How are you all doing?
00:00:32I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Buyer Speed Figure team, decompressing from a fantastic weekend of racing at
00:00:39Keeneland.
00:00:40Zoe Cabman, we must have passed like ships in the night, because I am now at Keeneland, awaiting the Keeneland
00:00:47breeding stock sale here.
00:00:49We'll be here for the next week or so, enjoying beautiful weather here at Keeneland.
00:00:54You lucked out, Randy.
00:00:55How good was the weather this past weekend?
00:00:57Oh, my God.
00:00:57I mean, Keeneland is beautiful enough in the fall, even on a somewhat gloomy day, but it was spectacular weather
00:01:04all week long.
00:01:05I was there from Monday, left on Sunday.
00:01:08Every day.
00:01:08Every day was awesome.
00:01:10Yeah.
00:01:11Locked out.
00:01:11Did you leave Zoe a bottle of wine, though, like we discussed?
00:01:14Yeah.
00:01:14I didn't.
00:01:15I should say yes, but I did not.
00:01:18No.
00:01:18Okay.
00:01:19All right.
00:01:20We'll get to that.
00:01:21So you'll get it someday.
00:01:22You'll get it someday.
00:01:23Sue drank it.
00:01:24You could have just blamed Sue.
00:01:25She's sitting right here.
00:01:26Yes.
00:01:27That would be logical.
00:01:28Okay.
00:01:29All right.
00:01:30Well, guys, we obviously have to start with the Breeders' Cup Classic, the biggest race of the day.
00:01:37And sovereignty was the story, and Bill Mott was the story.
00:01:41And I'm just going to quickly give you three thoughts that I have and move it on.
00:01:47And Randy and Zoe, you could compliment what I say or take it in any direction you want.
00:01:53Sovereignty was fantastic.
00:01:54And Bill Mott, what a training job that he did.
00:01:58All that he had to go through to get this horse ready after the abscess in the foot, missing the
00:02:04Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:02:05And we were all honestly scratching our heads.
00:02:08Why was he working this horse so slowly at Saratoga in particular?
00:02:13He did have a faster work when he got to Keeneland.
00:02:16But you know what?
00:02:18Bill Mott knew what he was doing, and it was obvious, and it was really one of the great training
00:02:23jobs in Breeders' Cup.
00:02:24History, Forever Young, it was just blah what happened to him.
00:02:30He was not the Forever Young that showed up last year and was so brilliant.
00:02:34Maybe the tip-off was that rather lackluster performance in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:02:39The trainer flat-out said, I didn't like the race.
00:02:42And how about Knightsbridge?
00:02:44He ran okay.
00:02:45He really got a good trip on the lead after Napoleon Solo didn't break well.
00:02:50Ran a creditable third, but I think in hindsight, he is not a mile and a quarter horse.
00:02:56Having said that, I still think Godolphin did the right thing by putting him in the Breeders' Cup Classic and
00:03:03giving him a chance to show what he could do.
00:03:05Very good horse.
00:03:06Probably not a mile and a quarter horse.
00:03:08Randy, those are the three things that kind of came to me in the top of my head.
00:03:12Take it away, my friend.
00:03:13To absolutely no one's surprise, Bill Mott is a master trainer, and he got the horse ready to run his
00:03:21A race.
00:03:22I mean, we said it numerous times in Mott We Trust.
00:03:26If he decided to enter and run sovereignty in the race, then you could be assured that he felt that
00:03:33the horse was going to give his normal sterling effort.
00:03:36Mile and a quarter is right in his wheelhouse.
00:03:38At the 5-8's pole, he looked like a winner, just sitting right there behind horses, Alvarado loaded.
00:03:45Very disappointing performance for Forever Young.
00:03:48Maybe all the miles throughout his career have finally caught up with him.
00:03:51I also heard some people say that he was uncharacteristically unsettled in the paddock, so maybe he was trying to
00:03:58give them some vibes that he wasn't actually feeling.
00:04:02He was put in a great position by Sakai.
00:04:04He was right there perched to the outside of Knightsbridge and looked like he was in exactly the spot they
00:04:11would have wanted.
00:04:12But for once in his career, he finished off the board and just didn't seem to have it.
00:04:18But the Puma continued his improvement with blinkers on.
00:04:23He finishes the year probably as the best three-year-old in America right now, although he's not going to
00:04:30win the three-year-old title.
00:04:31That's obviously going to go to Golden Tempo, who was somewhat disappointing.
00:04:37I won't say way too far back.
00:04:39He's always that far back.
00:04:40But the pace wasn't quite as rapid, I think, as he would have needed against a field like this.
00:04:48Once magnitude scratched, it probably took a little bit of the starch out of the early pace.
00:04:53And Zoe, as far as Knightsbridge goes, I think he ran exactly the same race that he ran in the
00:04:57Pacific Classic.
00:04:59He just ran up against better horses.
00:05:02And he's probably better at a mile than a mile and a quarter.
00:05:05But it's not like he ran poorly.
00:05:07Knightsbridge lost nothing in defeat.
00:05:09If you ask me, because had he got beat in the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile, that would have been far
00:05:15worse than getting beat in the Classic.
00:05:17Now, I'm not saying he would have got beat, but those horses finished noses apart, further ado, and Owen Almighty.
00:05:23He might have been involved from the get-go and he might not have even hit the board.
00:05:27I don't know.
00:05:28He wasn't in there.
00:05:29So this is a much better outcome than, say, it's a better outcome if he wins the Breeders' Cup Dirt
00:05:35Mile or if he finishes third in the Classic.
00:05:38It's about the same.
00:05:39So he lost nothing in defense.
00:05:41Bill Mott just proved time and time again time only matters in jail.
00:05:46Doesn't use a watch.
00:05:47Watches the horse work.
00:05:48Goes by feel.
00:05:49Said the track had been deep at Saratoga.
00:05:52You hit the nail on the head last week when you said, if he enters the horse, don't worry about
00:05:56it.
00:05:57Don't worry about a thing.
00:05:58So I thought sovereignty was terrific.
00:06:01And a big tip of the hat to Godolphin for keeping him in training when it looked like earlier on
00:06:07in the year.
00:06:07Oh, God, what a terrible decision to keep him in training.
00:06:11He went out a winner.
00:06:12Can't wait to see what his babies look like.
00:06:14I really, really can't.
00:06:16We saw a share in himself for a million dollars.
00:06:20He's fabulous.
00:06:22Golden tempo.
00:06:22I was disappointed.
00:06:23I thought he'd make a big step forward.
00:06:25I know the pace wasn't quite what they were expecting, but I just thought the time off, the way he'd
00:06:33been training, he was going to make a big step forward.
00:06:36So the jury's out whether I'm guessing we'll see him next year.
00:06:39Is that correct?
00:06:40Yes, he is.
00:06:41Yes.
00:06:41So we'll see him next year.
00:06:43And he's going to have to make a big step forward from his three to four year old year.
00:06:47As for Forever Young, wasn't on my ticket, I'm afraid, even after that scintillating work.
00:06:53And sometimes when horses go over the top like that, they fool you.
00:06:58His work was so good at Keeneland, but he was very much on the bridle.
00:07:02Something I've never seen him work like that before.
00:07:05And maybe that was a telling sign that he was a little bit over the top and the miles have
00:07:09caught up with him.
00:07:10It surprised me that they have not closed the door on him coming back next year, which was a bit
00:07:17of a surprise to me.
00:07:18I mean, they've left the door open to maybe try him again next year.
00:07:21If he was mine, personally, I wouldn't.
00:07:24But what is he, turning six?
00:07:27Yes.
00:07:28Yeah.
00:07:28Well, but he's made $32 million and there's that Saudi cup out there.
00:07:33And there's a lot of reasons to bring him back for the money.
00:07:37Um, let's take a look and take this opportunity to kind of look about next year.
00:07:43Sovereignty retired.
00:07:45Knightsbridge retired.
00:07:46The three best, the four best three-year-olds in America ran on Breeders' Cup Day.
00:07:54Napoleon Solo, Golden Tempo, the Puma, and Further Ado, who won by a scant nose in the Breeders' Cup dirt
00:08:02mile.
00:08:03Further Ado, they're on the fence.
00:08:04They don't know if they're going to bring him back or not or recording this on a Tuesday.
00:08:08By the time you're watching this, that decision may be made.
00:08:12But Randy, well, Zoe, I'll throw it to you because it'll be your turn.
00:08:15I think Randy made a good point.
00:08:17You know, things can change rapidly and there can be horses that are going to come up through the ranks.
00:08:21We're going to talk about one a little bit later in Ted Noffi, who, by the way, is running this
00:08:25weekend at Belmont.
00:08:28But seeing the Breeders' Cup results, I'd have to say that the Puma would be the horse, I think, I
00:08:35mean, it's ridiculous to predict who's going to be the 2027 horse of the year at this point.
00:08:38But he's the one among the three-year-olds that I think probably has the best chance to shine based
00:08:44on what we saw on Saturday.
00:08:46Well, I mean, don't forget Englishman.
00:08:48We'll get to him in a little bit.
00:08:49But that's a different category.
00:08:51Right.
00:08:51I know.
00:08:52But it wouldn't surprise me if they thought about maybe stretching him just a little bit.
00:08:55I don't know.
00:08:57Yeah, the Puma.
00:08:58I'm not sure he's physically going to change much between three and four.
00:09:02He's a real blocky, typey-looking horse who, in my opinion, is just outrunning himself every time.
00:09:10I thought he ran a bang-up race.
00:09:12Did I use him?
00:09:13Have I ever used him?
00:09:13No, I have not.
00:09:15Maybe I need to start putting him on my ticket because he's a cool little horse, and they're going to
00:09:19have fun with him next year.
00:09:21For sure they are.
00:09:22I think we mentioned in our handicapping podcast last week, the Puma, for my money at least, his race in
00:09:31the Pennsylvania Derby going into the Breeders' Cup was the best race of any three-year-old all year.
00:09:38I thought it was even better than Further Redo's win in the Bluegrass Stakes.
00:09:41When you consider the number that he got, I think it was a 103 buyer, four wide on both turns,
00:09:48monster move around the second turn.
00:09:50The only question in my mind was, well, I didn't know if he could beat Sovereignty or Forever Young, but
00:09:55where did that race come from?
00:09:57And then you notice it was blinkers on for the very first time.
00:10:00It was in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:10:01So clearly, he is a much better horse, or he has taken a step forward with those blinkers, and I
00:10:08agree with you, Bill.
00:10:09I think right now, going into 2027, he's probably, I guess he deserves top billing.
00:10:16Magnitude's retired.
00:10:17All the top older horses, they've retired as well.
00:10:19All right, so Sovereignty ends the year on a great note, winning the race and winning the race after being
00:10:27scratched last year under the Godolphin banner, give Sheikh Mohammed his first ever Breeders' Cup Classic winner.
00:10:35So, you know, he was the star of the day, but it was not an overall great year for him.
00:10:41Let's not forget, he only ran four times, and he only won two races.
00:10:45Now, generally, as an Eclipse Award voter, I would look at a resume like that and say, nah, maybe not
00:10:53when it comes to horse of the year.
00:10:56But no, he's horse of the year.
00:10:59Again, I wish he ran nine times and won seven races, but, you know, things have changed, as I've been
00:11:05remarking about so much on this podcast.
00:11:07I think you could make some case for nitrogen, and we'll talk about her later.
00:11:13But, Randy, are you in agreement, is Sovereignty Horse of the Year, and is it an easy call?
00:11:18I think it's an easy call.
00:11:20I think he's absolutely horse of the year.
00:11:22Look, he beat a Breeders' Cup Classic field.
00:11:24It might have been the shortest field in Classic history, but as we said on the NBC telecast, it's the
00:11:31first time in Breeders' Cup history that the Classic had two Kentucky Derby winners,
00:11:36a Preakness winner, a Belmont winner, and the defending champ.
00:11:38So he beat a stellar field, and he did it convincingly.
00:11:42So let me ask you this, because I know that nitrogen will get some votes for Horse of the Year.
00:11:47I personally am with you guys, and Sovereignty's going to get it.
00:11:50If she had beaten him at Saratoga, she would be a slam dunk, would she not, even with him winning
00:11:57the Classic?
00:11:58Well, yes, she would, but she didn't beat him.
00:12:01I know, but I'm just saying, if she had.
00:12:04That's a good case.
00:12:05Yeah, I think that would be a strong case in her favor, definitely.
00:12:08Well, we're going to save more of the nitrogen talk for later on in the podcast, because there's an awful
00:12:12lot to talk about her, too, as she was one of the big stories of Breeders' Cup.
00:12:16And it looks like she'll be one of the big stories in 2027 as well.
00:12:20So here's what we're going to do.
00:12:21We're going to take a break.
00:12:22We're going to hear from our friends at Keeneland.
00:12:24We're going to find out who the fastest horse of the week is.
00:12:27You might be a little bit surprised by who the fastest horse of the week.
00:12:30Maybe not.
00:12:31Then we come back, we'll have our Gainsway Guest of the Week, none other than the man of the hour,
00:12:37Bill Mott.
00:12:37Stay with us.
00:12:39I want to remind you that each and every week, the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:43And that is exactly where I am right now.
00:12:46Now, Keeneland saw a parade of sales graduates in the Breeders' Cup Winner's Circle last weekend.
00:12:51Let's recap.
00:12:52Friday featured Juvenile Phillies winner Emphatic, the Juvenile winner Hughes, and the Juvenile Turf winner Hefner.
00:13:01Saturday, we had Further Ado in the Dirt Mile and Catherine and Marissa in the Philly and Mare Turf and
00:13:06then Deterministic in the Mile.
00:13:09Congratulations to all the connections and thank you for shopping at Keeneland.
00:13:13We'll be right back after this message from where else?
00:13:16Beautiful Keeneland.
00:13:19We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:13:23So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.
00:13:28That's why we come to work every day.
00:13:31Obsess over every single detail.
00:13:35Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.
00:13:40And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.
00:13:45Keeneland.
00:13:46Every moment matters.
00:13:49Our fastest horse of the week brought to you by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:13:53We've been updating you on Life is Good ever since he was first retired to stud at Windstar.
00:13:59So here's the latest.
00:14:01Check out some of his 2026 yearling sales prices.
00:14:051.25 million as you can see there.
00:14:081.2 million.
00:14:091 million.
00:14:101 million.
00:14:11950,000.
00:14:12850,000.
00:14:13A trio of 750s.
00:14:16And those are just the ones at the very top of the list.
00:14:19And all this is no surprise.
00:14:20Not only was Life is Good an incredibly fast resource.
00:14:23From his first crop, he has a grade one winner at Saratoga, five TD and Rising Stars, and 571 mares
00:14:33bred over his next three crops.
00:14:35So the pipeline will remain loaded.
00:14:38Life is Good's 2027 fee at Windstar Farm has been set at $125,000.
00:14:46Fastest horse of the week.
00:14:47No surprise.
00:14:48Comes out of the Breeders' Cup.
00:14:49But which one is it?
00:14:51We will talk about him shortly.
00:14:54How about T.O. Elvis in the Breeders' Cup Sprint running down Englishman for a buyer's speed figure of 112?
00:15:01Just a couple of ticks higher than the 110 that Sovereignty got for winning the Classic and then a few
00:15:07points higher.
00:15:08Below that actually was Further Ado's 106 in the Dirt Mile.
00:15:14But topping the list, the Japanese star sprinter T.O. Elvis winning again in the United States.
00:15:21As the fastest horse of the week.
00:15:26Well, who else could we possibly have on as a Gainesway guest of the week after the Breeders' Cup than
00:15:31the man of the hour, Bill Mott?
00:15:33Bill, first of all, congratulations on winning the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:15:37Congratulations on a great training job with Sovereignty and thanks so much for joining us.
00:15:41And in all the hoopla after the race, you said something that surprised me.
00:15:48And I want to bring this back to you.
00:15:50And we'll get back to Sovereignty.
00:15:51But someone asked what I thought was maybe almost a blasphemous question.
00:15:57Is this horse the best horse you've ever trained?
00:15:59Now, you trained Cigar, one of the greatest horses of all time.
00:16:03But you kind of said that maybe he was.
00:16:06You want to elaborate on that?
00:16:09You mean I said maybe Sovereignty was?
00:16:11Yes.
00:16:12Maybe he is.
00:16:13And I think by virtue of winning the big three-year-old races that he won, that's something that Cigar
00:16:19didn't do.
00:16:21And I think they're both great horses, but probably did different things.
00:16:26Of course, they both won the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:16:29But I think it's, you know, for me, when Sovereignty was three, he actually won the three races that we
00:16:42had kind of targeted all year long.
00:16:44Naturally, we would have loved to have finished it off in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:16:48But, you know, the Derby, Belmont, and, you know, the Travers, and that was really the races that were important
00:16:56to us.
00:16:57And the spacing of the races and, you know, what, you know, we thought we had an opportunity if things
00:17:03went well to make those races.
00:17:06And he came through, you know, on every one, unfortunately, you know, a fever leading up to the Breeders' Cup
00:17:13Classic, and we had to, you know, we had to scratch.
00:17:17So it's obviously been well-documented, Bill, the foot abscess that cost him his scheduled prep race in the Jockey
00:17:23Club Gold Cup and cost him some training time.
00:17:26I'm just curious, when you brought him back to Breeders' for the first time after the foot abscess, you've said
00:17:31that first Breeders' didn't really wow you.
00:17:36No, I don't even think it was the first Breeders' I think it was either the second or third Breeders'
00:17:41back, and he didn't Breeders' well at all.
00:17:42The first time I Breeders' I thought he went well enough.
00:17:46I thought he did what we wanted him to do.
00:17:48And then he had one Breeders' that was just, I mean, I'm watching him go off, you know, on the
00:17:56other side of the racetrack from him, and he just, from even across the racetrack, he didn't look like he
00:18:02was traveling well.
00:18:04And he went in 51 and change, and that's about all he was going to do on that particular day.
00:18:10Now, I've seen him going 50 and 51 before, but doing it the right way.
00:18:14I mean, I think it's really all about how the horse is doing it, how smooth they are, how much
00:18:19into the bridle they are, and how well they're traveling.
00:18:22And on that particular day, he didn't look good to me at all.
00:18:25And I rushed back to the barn.
00:18:27I said, you know, I think I even made it around to the backside of the racetrack when he was
00:18:31walking off.
00:18:32And I said, man, something didn't look right.
00:18:34And Neil agreed with me.
00:18:36He didn't like the way, you know, the way he felt.
00:18:38But, you know, he came out of it.
00:18:41We didn't really see anything that was out of whack on him, just other than the breeze itself.
00:18:47And we came back.
00:18:48And after that, then I think we came back in 102.
00:18:51And then he had that 104 breeze, which looked good.
00:18:56And he was smooth enough doing it.
00:19:01But we were on a deep dead racetrack, which they hadn't added, you know, they didn't add any water.
00:19:07They were expecting rain.
00:19:08And for some reason, they didn't water it and prepare it properly for the, you know, for that particular breeze
00:19:15or for anybody else, for that matter, not just for us.
00:19:19And but then, you know, then we went to we had a good five ace breeze up there after that
00:19:27in Saratoga.
00:19:28And then we came down and his breeze at Keeneland was very good.
00:19:33Now, on that particular day, I asked his workmate to kind of go with him, try to finish up with
00:19:39him and gallop out with him.
00:19:41And, of course, he did just exactly what his workmate did.
00:19:44I mean, that's all he did.
00:19:46And, you know, maybe, you know, by the time they galloped out past the middle of the turn and finished
00:19:52up five eighths, he did go ahead and gallop out a little bit in front of his workmate.
00:19:57But it it came back good.
00:20:00And I ran to the you know, I was on the pony and I went around to the backside as
00:20:04he was walking back.
00:20:06And I asked Neil, I said, well, how was it?
00:20:09He just took a second to answer.
00:20:12And he said, that's the best he's breezed for me in a long, long time is exactly what he said.
00:20:20And so Dan Pride questioned him, you know, after the after the work, he said, how was it?
00:20:29You said he he breezed the best he breezed in a long, long time.
00:20:34He said, what do you mean before the Whitney?
00:20:36And Neil said, no, he said before the Travers last year.
00:20:40Wow.
00:20:41That's really good.
00:20:43I think it's, you know, but having having a work rider like somebody that knows the horse so well, they
00:20:49know what they feel like and what they feel under him.
00:20:52And and even though he's, you know, not going, he's going in.
00:20:56I think he was in on that particular day was in 48.
00:20:59But his gallop out was good because I sent the workmate with him and he was out in a minute
00:21:04and change minute and four fifths, which is a big, you know, nice work for him.
00:21:08Yeah. So after that 51 work, you had to be breathing a sigh of relief when he came back and
00:21:12worked like himself.
00:21:14Right. Exactly.
00:21:15You know, because you I mean, I was really I that's probably the only time that ever when that during
00:21:21that right after that breeze that I was really concerned.
00:21:24I said, man, are we going the right way or wrong way?
00:21:27And, you know, there was at that moment, I thought, oh, boy, we're going the wrong way.
00:21:32Something's going something's going on here.
00:21:34But then we never really came up with anything.
00:21:36The foot was good and I didn't see any any reason for it.
00:21:41I guess he just had a bad day.
00:21:43So, Bill, for people listening or watching that don't kind of realize the way you train,
00:21:48can you explain how important Neil has been to you and your all your work riders over the last couple
00:21:54of decades?
00:21:55And the fact that you're not a guy who sits there with his stopwatch and the walkie talkie, you don't
00:22:00talk to these guys on the horses.
00:22:01You just leave it up to them because you have so much trust in them because Neil's right.
00:22:06And I mean, most our work riders, you know, the the the the more experienced ones that we use for
00:22:13those type of works and those type of horses are pretty experienced.
00:22:18And I let them do their thing.
00:22:20You know, I tell them what I want them to do.
00:22:22And and they they all kind of know how I want them to go off in the breeze.
00:22:27And if I want something different than we normally do, I'll tell them up front and usually they can can
00:22:34get it done.
00:22:35And look, they they, you know, sometimes they don't get it right.
00:22:40But with, you know, in in the case of Neil, I mean, he's pretty spot on about 90, 90 percent
00:22:50of the time.
00:22:51So, you know, if you can if you can get them to work.
00:22:56That way and the way you want them 90 percent of the time, that's pretty good.
00:23:02Bill, let's segue to Knightsbridge and the all three of us on prior podcasts agreed with the decision to run
00:23:10them in the classic.
00:23:11We thought that he deserved I'm speaking for myself, but I think Randy and Zoe said the exact same things.
00:23:16We thought he deserved the chance.
00:23:19He ran OK.
00:23:21I mean, there was nothing wrong with his race, but he wasn't good enough.
00:23:24He finished third in hindsight.
00:23:27Is he just not a mile and a quarter horse or is it he's just not good enough to beat
00:23:32sovereignty?
00:23:34I say the latter.
00:23:36You know, he said he's not good enough to beat sovereignty.
00:23:38And I don't know that he fired his best shot on Breeders Cup Day.
00:23:43I believe that his race at Monmouth and the race in Del Mar, he was just a little bit sharper.
00:23:52He exploded a little bit more.
00:23:53Now, could that be a visual thing where, you know, it was just different horses and sovereignty, you know, rolled
00:24:02by him?
00:24:03I don't believe, you know, he was going to beat sovereignty on his best day if sovereignty ran his race.
00:24:12Beat number one, because just what you said, I mean, I think he's an exceptionally good miler, gets a mile
00:24:19and an eighth great.
00:24:20I think, you know, probably a mile and a quarter against a horse like sovereignty is probably stretching him just
00:24:26a little bit.
00:24:28You know, I went back and watched the reruns a couple of times yesterday.
00:24:32As a matter of fact, I pulled it up and I tried to pay a little more attention to Louie's
00:24:38ride on him.
00:24:39And I thought he did a great job.
00:24:41Initially, I thought, well, maybe he should have let him kick on a little bit more on the second turn,
00:24:47open up on him.
00:24:48And maybe he would have, you know, been able to spare second.
00:24:51But when I, the more I watched it, I watched in more carefully, I think he actually, you know, did
00:24:58gig him a little bit and let, he let him open up, but he didn't explode.
00:25:03He didn't open up three or four.
00:25:05He opened up a length and then he was able to kind of maintain that past the eighth pole.
00:25:10And then, then the big boy came and running, running down the middle of the racetrack.
00:25:15But he's a very good horse.
00:25:16I think he's a very good miler and I think he's just got so much class that I think he,
00:25:22he can, can get a mile and a quarter under the right circumstances.
00:25:26I think he's, you know, I think he, he didn't, he didn't fold up.
00:25:31He kept trying and he dug in and it was still a good race for him.
00:25:35So, Bill, you've trained so many great horses over the years.
00:25:38We'd be, we'd be here all afternoon long going through them all.
00:25:41But I guess at the very top of the list in whatever order you put them would be sovereignty and
00:25:45cigar.
00:25:45I think racing fans would like to know just from your perspective as a trainer, what were the differences in
00:25:51what it was like to train cigar compared to what it was like to train sovereignty?
00:25:57Well, we had probably, you know, more of a, a, a, a, a full schedule for cigar.
00:26:04I mean, we didn't miss much with him, you know, and I don't know whether that's, you know, because the
00:26:10times, because the age, you know what I mean?
00:26:13By the time I got cigar and we got him rolling, he was an older horse and we ran him
00:26:18every 30 days.
00:26:19It seemed like, and we, you know, Mr. Paulson was a love, love to run and he always, well, what's
00:26:27next?
00:26:27And, and gosh, you know, we, we didn't, you know, it's like we came back in the, the fall when
00:26:36he, when he won the, the first Breeders' Cup, he, he went undefeated.
00:26:40He was 10 for 10 on that season in 1995 and we, we came into Belmont Park.
00:26:50We ran in the, the Woodward, the Jockey Club and the Breeders' Cup.
00:26:54And I thought in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, I thought he struggled a little bit.
00:26:59That was 30 days, four weeks before the, the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:27:03I thought, boy, he just, he looked like he had to work a little bit, you know what I mean?
00:27:08More for that one and I guess maybe, you know, he carried, I got to look and see what the
00:27:14weight was, but I thought that might have been a factor.
00:27:19And, but then 30 days later, we ran him in the Breeders' Cup and I mean, he probably ran one
00:27:24of his best races all year long.
00:27:26I mean, he, you know, and one of the greatest race calls of all time by Tom Durkin.
00:27:31And I mean, it was, it was truly exciting, you know, 10 for 10.
00:27:36He, he can, you know, finished up the year undefeated and, and what a, what a thrill that was.
00:27:43I mean, it doesn't get much better than that.
00:27:46I'll tell you what the biggest difference would have been, and you'll appreciate this, Bill, too, is there were no
00:27:50armchair trainers.
00:27:52There was no Twitter.
00:27:53There were no cell phones taking videos.
00:27:56No one was saying, what the hell is Bill Maugh doing to Saratoga working this horse in 104?
00:27:59It was not a laugh.
00:28:01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:03And, and another thing, you know, at that time, and, and although I, you know, we've trained for a great
00:28:10group of owners right now, but, you know, Mr. Paulson liked to run and, you know, it came up going
00:28:19to Dubai.
00:28:20I mean, he was all in, you know, that was the first Dubai World Cup.
00:28:23And he, he, he was the first one to want to go.
00:28:28He and Madeline said, you know, what, you know, let's, let's go.
00:28:32I mean, they were, they weren't protecting him.
00:28:34They wanted to show him off and, and see what he could do.
00:28:37In your heart of hearts, would you love to train him just one more year?
00:28:42Who, sovereignty?
00:28:43Sovereignty.
00:28:44You know, I don't know.
00:28:47You know, I really believe, and I've said it before, I think for most horses that race at a top
00:28:54level like that, it's generally difficult to get more than two full, really full seasons in them.
00:29:02You know, whether it's three and four, two and three, or four and five, usually to keep them at that
00:29:09top level for over three seasons.
00:29:12I mean, occasionally you'll see a great horse that does it.
00:29:14I suppose Kelso did it.
00:29:16And, you know, there were probably some others when, and, you know, they were, it was a gelding.
00:29:21So what are you going to do, right?
00:29:23Um, but I, I think I, I really felt, you know, we accomplished our mission this year.
00:29:31Uh, you know, I was a little disappointed in the, you know, first two races.
00:29:36I didn't think anybody could beat him no matter what.
00:29:40Um, but we came back and, and he came back in the, in the Whitney.
00:29:45And he, and I thought the Whitney was actually maybe a more stunning race than the Breeders' Cup Classic was.
00:29:52For me, it was like, wow, here he is, you know?
00:29:56And, uh, he came back and he got it done in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:30:00But, but I thought that that was our goal.
00:30:02That was our goal all year long from the time, you know, he was laid up over the winter time.
00:30:07We brought him back.
00:30:08That was the reason.
00:30:09And we got it done.
00:30:11And I'm relieved that he got it done.
00:30:14I'm relieved that he, he was able to win it.
00:30:17And I'm now relieved that he's at, uh, at, uh, Johnabelle Farm and in the stud barn.
00:30:26And, and this is over and he can start his new career and, and we don't have to worry about
00:30:32him, you know, getting beat or getting hurt on the racetrack or, you know, it's just, it's time.
00:30:38It was just time for him.
00:30:39What was it like to put him on the van Sunday morning?
00:30:41Well, uh, he left, he, he, he left actually for the farm about an hour after I left for, for
00:30:50a plane ride back to Saratoga.
00:30:52But, uh, but, uh, I, I, frankly, uh, I wasn't as an emotional Sunday morning.
00:31:01Uh, you know, there's been times when I've had to lead some to that van and it's been a really
00:31:07emotional and, uh, you know, it's hard, hard to lose them.
00:31:14Um, but it wasn't so bad with him.
00:31:18I guess I, I guess I was prepared for it and, you know, I knew it was coming and, and
00:31:23I thought, you know, uh, if I could pat myself on the back and say, job well done, it's over.
00:31:31You know, and, uh, so it, it wasn't so bad.
00:31:35It'll, I think if I make a trip to the farm and visit him, I'm sure it'll be, you know,
00:31:41it'll, it'll be a little emotional.
00:31:43Bill, after Bob Baffert won the, um, Delmar Futurity with Hughes, he said, well, I've come a long way from
00:31:49Prescott Downs.
00:31:51Now you settled your first winner when you were 16 years old at a racetrack called Park Jefferson, South Dakota,
00:31:59as knowledgeable as our listeners and viewers are, I bet you 75 to 85% of them.
00:32:04I've never even heard Park Jefferson.
00:32:07PJ.
00:32:08PJ, that's right.
00:32:09Do you, do you ever like shake your head like Baffert didn't say, man, I've come a long way from
00:32:15Park Jefferson.
00:32:16I, I, I realize it, uh, every day, uh, I remember, you know, my first trip to the racetrack, I,
00:32:26I, my first job, uh, uh, I was 14 and I was working for the Asmussen family for, for, uh,
00:32:36um, Keith, who, uh,
00:32:38uh, and, and, and, and I was sitting in the front of, I've told this story many times, uh, sitting
00:32:45in the front of a GMC one ton truck with a six horse trailer in the back.
00:32:50And we were running horses, you know, off the van, running them at Fort pier.
00:32:56And I remember it was, they always, the meat started the first Saturday of May.
00:33:02So I turned the AM radio on and I, I listened to the, I think it was the 1967, uh,
00:33:12Kentucky Derby with proud clarion went in with Bobby Essary riding.
00:33:16And I listened to it on a, on a, you know, and, and I just couldn't imagine I I'm at
00:33:22Fort pier wearing a cowboy hat and I couldn't imagine ever being at Churchill downs.
00:33:30I mean, listening to the announcer there.
00:33:32And I thought, well, that's for somebody else.
00:33:34That's not for me.
00:33:35I mean, I like what I'm doing right now and I don't know how long I'm going to keep it
00:33:39up.
00:33:40Uh, but I thought I was limited to South Dakota.
00:33:45I couldn't even imagine being, going to Churchill downs and not, I mean, that would have been a, a dream
00:33:52come true just to go there and see it or, you know, much less winning a Kentucky Derby or being
00:33:59the leading trainer there for 32 years.
00:34:02You know, I held the record there for 32 years, having the most wins until they run past me the
00:34:09recent last couple of years.
00:34:10But, uh, uh, so I've, I realized I've come a long way and, and I've had so many people that
00:34:19have, you know, been behind me and helped me out.
00:34:22I mean, I can't even begin to tell you, and I couldn't even begin to thank everybody that's helped me
00:34:27just whether it from, you know, people that have given me lessons to people that have supported me with good
00:34:34horses.
00:34:34And people that have entrusted us to the really good horses and the luck I've had, I think I've had
00:34:42a, you know, I've, I've had an angel watching over me my whole life.
00:34:47Where did you go for a bear after the Breeders' Cup Classic?
00:34:49You usually had somewhere with Tina.
00:34:53We, we just had a little get together with the, the Godolphin people and, uh, at Johnabelle Farm and, and,
00:35:01uh, uh, we were home early and, and I think we were back home probably and, and had to get
00:35:09a good night's sleep and get up and get rolling the next day.
00:35:12You know, once it's over, it's over.
00:35:14So we've got to, got to move on.
00:35:16Was Miguel Clement joking with you the next day?
00:35:19I saw some pictures of you and Miguel showing off your horses and Miguel was announcing Bill Mott's imminent retirement
00:35:25or something.
00:35:26Yeah, well, he tells, he likes to tell everybody that all the time because he, you know, we're in the,
00:35:31we share the barn in, in Saratoga and he tells his, he says, yep, I'm going for retirement.
00:35:37He says, and they can send the horses over to me or they can even just keep them in the
00:35:41same barn.
00:35:41You know, he says, Hey, they don't even have to leave the barn.
00:35:44I'll just take them over where they're at.
00:35:47And, uh, so we've had, you know, he, he jokes about that all the time.
00:35:52So I started joking about it pretty soon.
00:35:53I got to be careful.
00:35:54People are going to start to believe it, you know, but, uh, I, as I was walking out, he was
00:36:01holding, uh, his horse deterministic in, in front of his barn.
00:36:07And, and actually there were a few photographers there taking a picture of him.
00:36:12So I thought I'd, what do they call it?
00:36:14Photo bomb, the photo bomb, the thing.
00:36:16So I jumped in there and we got a picture together, but, uh, he, uh, I I'm very proud of
00:36:22him.
00:36:22He did a very good job with that horse.
00:36:25He did a marvelous training job and that's a very good horse.
00:36:29And, uh, uh, accolades to, to Miguel for all his accomplishments.
00:36:35And he's, he's a very determined young man does a great job.
00:36:39Awesome.
00:36:40Well, Bill, speaking of people who do a great job that of course includes you as well.
00:36:45And, uh, the training, uh, feet that you pulled off in Breeders' Cup will be something that'll be, uh, they
00:36:50need to add to your hall of fame plaque, uh, get a little chisel out and add to that.
00:36:55Bill, thanks so much for being our Gainesway guests of the week and congratulations on sovereignty.
00:37:00And, um, let's hope that you can come up with a few more stars in 20, you know, we're, we're,
00:37:05we're searching right now.
00:37:07We're looking, uh, high and low and, and, uh, everywhere we can.
00:37:12Very good.
00:37:12Bill, once again, thanks for joining us here on the TDN writer's room podcast.
00:37:16Okay.
00:37:17Thanks, Bill.
00:37:19Guest of the week, Bill Mott brought to you by Gainesway.
00:37:22Anyway, the first weanlings by Gainesway stallion, Charge It, are currently landing on sales grounds around the country.
00:37:28Just Monday at Fasig Tipton, he sold his first weanling for $240,000 to AW Bloodstock.
00:37:35Look for Charge It's 42 weanlings cataloged at the Keeneland November sale.
00:37:41As a racehorse, Charge It registered buyer speed figures of 100 or higher on four occasions, including that one race
00:37:48you'll all remember,
00:37:49the one-mile Dwyer in which he won by 23 lengths with the career-best 111 buyer figure.
00:37:58Charge It will stand the 2027 season at Gainesway for a fee of $10,000.
00:38:03Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:38:12Charge It is pouring it on, winning the Dwyer by the length of the stretch.
00:38:24Charge It wins it convincingly in this Grade II Suburban.
00:38:37With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:38:43there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:38:49Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and
00:38:56New York.
00:38:58Kentucky Breads.
00:38:59Breed them.
00:39:00Raise them.
00:39:02Race them.
00:39:03We all win.
00:39:07The TDN Riders Room also brought to you by Kentucky Breads.
00:39:12And, of course, the Breeders' Cup being in Kentucky, wherever the Breeders' Cup is, it doesn't matter.
00:39:15It's still going to be dominated by Kentucky Breads.
00:39:18They won 10 races this year over the two days, highlighted by a pair of winners on Future Stars Friday.
00:39:24And, of course, reigning Horse of the Year.
00:39:27Sovereignty won the $7 million Breeders' Cup Classic on Championship Saturday,
00:39:31en route to what's probably going to be a second straight Horse of the Year title.
00:39:36Kentucky Breads have now won 272 Breeders' Cup races, more than any other state or country, of course,
00:39:43including 30 in the Classic alone.
00:39:46Kentucky's safe bet.
00:39:48Breed them.
00:39:48Raise them.
00:39:49Race them.
00:39:50We all win.
00:39:52Welcome back.
00:39:53And let's get in first to the Breeders' Cup Friday.
00:39:55We can talk about the Juvenile and the Juvenile Phillies.
00:39:59The Juvenile, of course, the story was Hughes.
00:40:01And, you know, I think going into next year, when we start talking about the Derby,
00:40:08there's still going to be all the talks going to be about USS Valor.
00:40:11But maybe that's not really fair, because look at the year that Hughes had.
00:40:17Five for five, three grade one wins, wins the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:40:22And, Randy, I got to tell you, man, you knocked my horse.
00:40:26American history.
00:40:29Each waist up, down, sideways.
00:40:32He didn't win, but he ran okay, my friend.
00:40:35He put in a pretty good effort.
00:40:36I think that was a really good field.
00:40:38I think Hughes is a very, very talented horse.
00:40:41And it's too early to predict what's going to happen on the road to the Derby next year.
00:40:46But I just hope, I mean, he's the obvious champion.
00:40:48But I just hope the, I don't think the hype being given to USS Valor is,
00:40:55I hope that doesn't overshadow what Hughes did.
00:40:59And, of course, all the announcers and the headline writers just love the fact that he's owned,
00:41:04named after the hockey player.
00:41:05Hughes scores in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, et cetera.
00:41:09But the Breeders' Cup Juvenile was all about Hughes, Randy.
00:41:13So, for the record, I said I would love to own American history.
00:41:18And when I was doing all this, it's when you were talking about American history over Hughes.
00:41:26Okay.
00:41:27So, yeah.
00:41:29I mean, Hughes is obviously going to be the two-year-old champion because USS Valor wasn't there.
00:41:35The connections of USS Valor essentially sacrificed an Eclipse Award for what they thought was the greater good
00:41:42in having him as good as possible for his early three-year-old campaign.
00:41:48I don't think, and again, this is just an opinion,
00:41:53I don't consider Hughes, like, I wouldn't say he should be the Kentucky Derby favorite.
00:42:03His win was good, but it was only a few ticks, it was only a few hundredths of a second
00:42:09faster than Emphatic's win in the Juvenile Phillies.
00:42:13And we'll talk about that race, I'm sure.
00:42:15But, you know, she was getting eaten up by Miss Monica in the final quarter of a mile.
00:42:19Probably wasn't the best horse, but won.
00:42:21So, you know, I think I'm still not completely sold on Hughes as a mile and a quarter, you know,
00:42:29top contender for the Kentucky Derby.
00:42:31I have a feeling that we may even see a horse emerge from the Baffert barn between now and then
00:42:35that turns out to be even more suited for the mile and a quarter.
00:42:38And maybe, you know, maybe it's the other Baffert horse in the race who finished third.
00:42:46His name escapes me right now.
00:42:49Salahuddin, right.
00:42:50He may actually turn out to be a better mile and a quarter horse than Hughes.
00:42:56But, I mean, you can't knock Hughes' record so far, that's for sure.
00:43:00Five for five, great campaign for Hughes by Inter Mischief, who, you know, it was only, what, a handful of
00:43:07years ago, people were like, oh, Inter Mischief, can they get a mile and a quarter?
00:43:10And then he comes along authentic.
00:43:12And now you've got sovereignty.
00:43:14Yes, they can get a mile and a quarter.
00:43:16I think Hughes has still got some growing to do.
00:43:18He's a little upside down.
00:43:20If you take a good look at him, he's going to come on as a three-year-old.
00:43:24He's not just purely going to be a two-year-old.
00:43:27And let's just not forget, he's trained by the winningest derby winning trainer in history in the Hall of Fame
00:43:33of Bob Baffert.
00:43:34So he'll be the favorite from now going into it.
00:43:37We'll have to see what USS Valor does in the springtime.
00:43:41Salah Houdin, I like going in.
00:43:43He just looked a little bit one-paced, galoppy, coming down the lane.
00:43:47I'm not sure how fast he's going to be next year.
00:43:50I did like him.
00:43:52He was deceivingly fast in the morning.
00:43:53He fooled me.
00:43:55And then American history.
00:43:58Way to go, Bill.
00:43:59I thought he ran a bang-up race.
00:44:02I was like, as soon as he crossed the wire, I was like, go on, Bill.
00:44:06Go on, Bill.
00:44:08It was a good race, but take nothing away from Hughes.
00:44:11Yeah.
00:44:11I thought Salah Houdin was a little one-paced late for the reason that he was too close to the
00:44:17pace.
00:44:17And Baffert himself said that after the race.
00:44:21They wanted to keep him a little bit closer.
00:44:23Short finish line at Keeneland going a mile in the 16th.
00:44:26You know, not a ton of early speed in the race, especially, as it turns out, when he is no
00:44:31lie, almost lost his jockey.
00:44:33Somehow the jockey stayed on at the start.
00:44:35But, yeah, I think he'll be better when he's ridden a little bit more conservatively at the longer distances.
00:44:41Good point.
00:44:42And he kind of looks a little toughy coming down the lane, which is fine for Churchill Downs.
00:44:47Because there is an abundance of toughy-looking horses that absolutely love that main track over there.
00:44:52And he's proven over it already.
00:44:55So, definitely some nice horses to look forward to next year.
00:44:58All right.
00:44:59Let's switch our attention to the juvenile fillies.
00:45:01And got to love those Pennsylvania breads.
00:45:05Emphatic wins the race.
00:45:07Bread in Pennsylvania.
00:45:08And Brian Sanfortello, I'm sure, was the happiest man in Lexington, Kentucky.
00:45:12Or wherever he watched the race from.
00:45:15Maybe he stayed in Pennsylvania.
00:45:17She is a very deserving champion.
00:45:20But was she the best horse?
00:45:24That's the question.
00:45:25Miss Monica had a terrible trip.
00:45:27She just didn't get out of the gate right.
00:45:30And down the back stretch, she was 10th, nine lengths behind Emphatic, who was up front.
00:45:37She closed her eyeballs out.
00:45:39It's tough to say.
00:45:41You know, it's all hypothetical.
00:45:43You know, who was the best horse?
00:45:44But Randy, again, I'm not taking anything away from Emphatic.
00:45:49Obviously, she should be unanimous choice for two-year-old Philly champion.
00:45:54But I'm not sure that Miss Monica wasn't the best horse.
00:45:57No, I agree with you.
00:45:59The short finish line really helped Emphatic.
00:46:02And honestly, I think she was probably ridden that way primarily because of the short finish line.
00:46:08Tyler Gaflione, it was him, right?
00:46:10Went awfully early.
00:46:12He pressed the button and Emphatic opened up whatever she opened up.
00:46:15Five lengths, six lengths, seven lengths.
00:46:18Showed an outstanding turn of foot to sprint away from the field and just held on.
00:46:22I think, you know, he realized the short finish line.
00:46:24That was part of his strategy.
00:46:26But the way Miss Monica was closing, yeah, that was the only question about Miss Monica really was two turns.
00:46:31She'd never been around two turns before.
00:46:34And boy, did she answer that question resoundingly.
00:46:37I mean, right now in my book, she would have to be the favorite for the Kentucky Oaks, the early
00:46:41favorite.
00:46:42She was amazing.
00:46:44And, yes, Emphatic, slam dunk, two-year-old Philly champion, brilliant daughter of Nyquist, done.
00:46:50And I didn't honestly like Miss Monica going in because I was a little bit concerned with how ranked she'd
00:46:56been in the mornings,
00:46:57how ranked she'd been in her afternoon races.
00:47:00That, to me, and Bob won't see it this way whatsoever, was a blessing in disguise as far as I'm
00:47:06concerned
00:47:06because she got sideswiped.
00:47:08I didn't see the beginning.
00:47:09Jimmy Barnes didn't make the trip.
00:47:12And I saw him in the paddock a couple of races later at Santanita.
00:47:15I'm like, hey, what happened at the start?
00:47:17Why was she so far back?
00:47:18Because I'd missed it.
00:47:20And he said she got sideswiped, completely took her off her game, knocked her off her feet.
00:47:25And, you know, thank God you got Pratt riding her.
00:47:28And he just took his time.
00:47:30He got stymied down on the inside and he got stuck in a place he probably had no choice but
00:47:35to be in.
00:47:35And she was the best filly in there.
00:47:38And getting the little bit of dirt, somehow she managed to relax, something that I've not seen from her.
00:47:43And that's not the best way to school your horse in a Breeders' Cup championship event.
00:47:49But, man, oh, man, she showed a whole new dimension, one that's going to really work in her favor moving
00:47:55forward.
00:47:56She was phenomenal.
00:47:56Yeah, I think it's a little bit dramatic to say that she got knocked off her feet.
00:48:02It was kind of a minor bump, but it definitely cost her position early.
00:48:08And then when the dirt started hitting her in the face, she didn't know what to do.
00:48:12She never had it.
00:48:12And she went back.
00:48:14I mean, she, you know, tried to drop back behind the dirt.
00:48:18But it's a great learning experience for her.
00:48:21And now we know for sure that distance is no problem.
00:48:25So the other big story on Friday was the Europeans just cleaned the clock of the American horses.
00:48:32How about these statistics?
00:48:33Juvenile turf sprint after my man Paco got TQ'd.
00:48:37Only Paco.
00:48:38You know, if there's going to be any controversy in the Breeders' Cup from jockeys, of course, it's going to
00:48:42be Paco Lopez.
00:48:43Did you think it was justified?
00:48:45No.
00:48:46No.
00:48:46No.
00:48:47No.
00:48:47Really?
00:48:48Okay.
00:48:48No.
00:48:49When do we ever stand up for Paco?
00:48:51But it's the Kentucky stewards.
00:48:53So there you go.
00:48:54Right.
00:48:54Enough said.
00:48:56No.
00:48:56And to your point, Randy, one thing you always say, they talk to the jockeys.
00:49:01Ocean Murphy's a very good talker and very convincing.
00:49:05And he just gave them a mouthful, the stewards.
00:49:09Yeah.
00:49:10So I don't think he should have come down.
00:49:12Okay.
00:49:12Can I interject something here?
00:49:14And I'm going to go down a path that we weren't going to go down.
00:49:17There is nothing more stupid in horse racing than the stewards talking to the jockeys after a race.
00:49:24In the NFL, when there's a decision being made on whether it's pass interference or not, do they talk to
00:49:31the cornerback and say, hey, did you unfairly tackle that guy?
00:49:37And honestly, I'm going to say this in a politically correct manner.
00:49:42So many of these jockeys struggle with English.
00:49:45Get rid of that.
00:49:46Don't talk to them.
00:49:47I mean, you've got 800 camera views.
00:49:48Come on.
00:49:49That is ridiculous.
00:49:50But whatever.
00:49:51I'm getting lost on a tangent here.
00:49:53So back to my original point before we got lost on Paco.
00:49:57So juvenile turf sprint euros, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, juvenile Phillies turf, one, two, three, four, five,
00:50:04six, seven, juvenile turf, one, two, three.
00:50:07So they swept the trifecta in all three races.
00:50:11They swept the super high five, if there was such a bet on those, and the other two.
00:50:16But then, so I switched all my handicapping for Saturday, picked only European horses, picked Blue Bolt, who was no
00:50:24good at all.
00:50:25And the Americans had a really nice comeback.
00:50:27Batcho, we're going to count him because he's trained by Wesley Ward.
00:50:31They're one, two in the turf sprint.
00:50:33Catherine and Marissa wins the Philly and Mayor turf, one, two.
00:50:37In the mild deterministic, and that's one race when we circle back around, I'd like to talk more about wins
00:50:43over notable speech, turn the tables on him.
00:50:46Of course, in the Breeders' Cup turf, which the Americans look like they're never going to win again in the
00:50:52remainder of time, the Euros were one through seven.
00:50:55But, Randy, it was, you know, just your thoughts on the Euros.
00:51:01Very good in the American comeback.
00:51:03Oh, Hafner was sensational.
00:51:05You know, the Coolmore Philly is an absolute superstar.
00:51:10Sun Goddess.
00:51:11Yeah, Sun Goddess is amazing.
00:51:14Libertango is a nice horse.
00:51:16But can I propose something?
00:51:17You talk about handicapping.
00:51:19The TDN is not going to like this.
00:51:20I think we should do our handicapping podcast Friday morning of Breeders' Cup weekend.
00:51:2720 horses were scratched for the Breeders' Cup, and it completely changed the complexion of some of those races.
00:51:34I mean, look at the classic with magnitude, right?
00:51:37But in this race in particular, I mean, Harper's Corner was going to be the Lone Speed, and she would
00:51:44have won.
00:51:45She would have beaten Libertango until the scratches.
00:51:48And suddenly, Ruiva draws in for Wesley Ward, and it completely messes up Harper's Corner being the Lone Speed.
00:51:56Now she has to stalk for the first time in her life, and she still runs an exceptional race to
00:52:01finish.
00:52:02Well, she wound up being DQ'd because of Paco.
00:52:05Not because of Paco, because of the stewards.
00:52:08But, you know, it totally changed everything with these scratches.
00:52:12And you don't know.
00:52:13Nowadays, you don't know until the morning of the race.
00:52:16All these scratches start pouring in, and you're like, wait a second.
00:52:19But, you know, that's a whole other subject, the abundance of scratches, which we'll get into another day.
00:52:27The one thing that we can take from it is that every single horse came back safe, which is the
00:52:32most important thing of all.
00:52:33We can talk about the scratches another time.
00:52:36I just wanted to mention Billy Loughnan and Libertango and your thoughts on the rider change.
00:52:43Obviously, they paid Flavian Pratt double jock mount to take him off 30 minutes before the post.
00:52:48And that's a big handicapping angle as well.
00:52:51A lot of people bet Libertango because they had Flavian.
00:52:54He knows the track.
00:52:56He's an American rider.
00:52:57He's good out the gate.
00:52:58Billy did a brilliant job.
00:52:59Like, that kid's a phenomenal rider.
00:53:02But some people weren't happy about the jock change.
00:53:04How do you feel about it?
00:53:05Well, they shouldn't have been.
00:53:07And you have another situation with Hafner, with Ryan Moore picking up the mount in that situation.
00:53:13That was a scratch, though.
00:53:14But OK, but it's the same thing that that the betters did not have when remember the betting, first of
00:53:21all, on the Breeders Cup, it starts on Friday.
00:53:23And then you have pick threes, four or five sixes in every single race.
00:53:29You I don't know.
00:53:30I don't know who the point the finger of blame would be the stewards of the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission.
00:53:34I doubt it would be the Breeders Cup.
00:53:38But Loflain should not have been allowed to ride that horse.
00:53:40It was not fair to the betters.
00:53:42Now, it worked out fine for them because he won.
00:53:45But I've never in and Randy Zoe, if you can remember this, I have never seen a situation where, oh,
00:53:52by the way, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes to post or whatever it is.
00:53:57The betting is there's millions of dollars already being bet.
00:54:00And, oh, by the way, we're going to we're going to tell you you're going to you're going to have
00:54:02a different jockey here.
00:54:03I don't think they would have done that in the third race on a Wednesday afternoon.
00:54:07They made an exception for the Breeders Cup and they didn't take the betters into account.
00:54:12Now, again, it worked out fine because the horse won.
00:54:16But what if Loflain blew the race and everyone said, well, wait a minute, I thought Flavian Pratt, he's the
00:54:22best rider, him and Jose Ortiz and Aarod are the best riders in the U.S.
00:54:25I bet the horse because of Flavian.
00:54:27Now, all of a sudden, we get this kid from Europe.
00:54:30That was not handled well.
00:54:32Absolutely not handled well.
00:54:33I want to ask a question.
00:54:34I don't know the answer to this.
00:54:36My head was too busy in the books.
00:54:38When did betting begin on Breeders Cup Friday and when was the jockey change announced?
00:54:44I was under the impression the jockey change was announced Friday morning ahead of the betting.
00:54:51I don't believe that's the case, Randy.
00:54:53I believe that the jockey change was announced.
00:54:56And, you know, I can't say this officially because I didn't know this answer was going to come up.
00:55:01I believe it was about 45 minutes before the race.
00:55:05And also remember, you know, Breeders Cup with the ADWs, people start betting at 7, 8 in the morning as
00:55:11well.
00:55:11Now, that's not a ton of money, but to your point, betting definitely in some way, shape, or form was
00:55:21being conducted before the jockey change was announced.
00:55:26If it were $5, that's too much.
00:55:30The bettors have to know, have accurate information.
00:55:33And people bet on this race without accurate information so far as who was going to ride the horse.
00:55:41What they probably should have done in hindsight.
00:55:43Now, they wanted to secure Flavian Pratt just in case.
00:55:47What they should have done was had Billy Loughnane on the horse with the proviso and say, hey, if he
00:55:54can't make the wait, Pratt, you're in.
00:55:55But they wanted to secure Flavian Pratt, and then that was their proviso.
00:56:01But they didn't tell anyone.
00:56:03And, of course, you know what I'm going to say.
00:56:04If anybody was concerned about whether it was going to be Flavian Pratt or Billy Loughnane, they're barking up the
00:56:09wrong tree.
00:56:09Because they're both top-class jockeys.
00:56:12And it wouldn't matter at all who was on the horse.
00:56:14The horse was going to win anyway.
00:56:16Before we go to break, I will briefly say, wow, what a good ride by Kendrick Carmouche in the Breeders'
00:56:23Cup mile.
00:56:24Randy, Zoe, you've got five seconds to respond.
00:56:27Brilliant ride.
00:56:28A much better ride than he rode in Canada.
00:56:30He just went, did his own thing, and didn't overthink it.
00:56:34Well done, Kendrick.
00:56:35The only thing better than Kendrick Carmouche's ride was his post-race interview.
00:56:39Oh, it was brilliant.
00:56:40All right.
00:56:41We wrap that up quickly.
00:56:43We promised the producers, A, that we will never record a Breeders' Cup podcast on the Friday of the Breeders'
00:56:51Cup.
00:56:51Randy, that's not going to fly.
00:56:53And that we will try to hurry things up as we head into the fourth and final segment.
00:56:59And before we do that, you're going to hear from the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders and also from our friends in
00:57:05Australia in Sky Racing.
00:57:07The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by our good friends at the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the
00:57:13PHBA.
00:57:14And guess what?
00:57:15Another Pennsylvania Bread Breeders' Cup winner.
00:57:18It doesn't get any better than that.
00:57:19And it was an emphatic win for Emphatic, maintaining her perfect record en route to a front-running length-and
00:57:26-a-half win over the fast-closing Miss Monica.
00:57:29Emphatic is now a perfect four-for-four with two grade one wins and a virtual shoe-in, of course,
00:57:34for year-end honors as the champion two-year-old filly.
00:57:37And she was bred in Pennsylvania by John Marshall and races for Gaines Way Farm and Andrew Rosen.
00:57:44To learn more about breeding your future PA Bread star and perhaps Breeders' Cup winner, contact Brian Sanfratello at 610
00:57:52-444-1050 or visit pabread.com.
00:57:57The Pennsylvania Breeding Program is the best program in the country.
00:58:02The stallion awards, the owner bonuses, also the restrictive races and the stakes races for Pennsylvania Breeds.
00:58:09Last year, 321 Pennsylvania Breeders earned Breeders' Awards.
00:58:1422 Pennsylvania Breeders earned over $100,000.
00:58:19We have the best program in the country.
00:58:23Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.
00:58:25Learn more at pabread.com.
00:58:28All right, never mind the Breeders' Cup.
00:58:30Let's talk about the Melbourne Cup, where Kieran Ma made history in the race, becoming the first trainer to train
00:58:36the first three home.
00:58:38He ran 1-2-3 with Point of Law, Zaran, and Jujikibo.
00:58:43Point of Law, you might remember him.
00:58:45Winning a Group 3 in England, he was originally bred by King Charles III and raced for the King and
00:58:51Queen in England with John and Thady Gosden as trainers.
00:58:55The trifecta, if we'd have bet that, we'd have been smart.
00:58:58Paid $2,092 Australian dollars.
00:59:02The Melbourne Cup Carnival continues at Flemington on Wednesday night with the Group 1 Victoria Oaks and ends on Friday
00:59:08night with the Group 1 Champions Sprint.
00:59:11It could pay a lot to stick with trainer Kieran Ma for the remainder of the carnival as his barn
00:59:17is in peak form.
00:59:19He has Ice Lady in the Oaks and Everest, we remember her, the Everest win attempted in the Group 1
00:59:26Champions Sprint.
00:59:27I'll be watching, will you?
00:59:29Welcome back.
00:59:30Zoe, we wrapped up the mile very quickly, but you have some thoughts on Notable Speech as well.
00:59:35I'm not sure the best horse won.
00:59:37I know Deterministic did and it was a terrific ride, but Notable Speech did not get a good trip whatsoever.
00:59:43And I love William Buick, but that was not a good trip on Notable Speech.
00:59:50Randy?
00:59:51Well, also Deterministic got a beautiful trip.
00:59:54I mean, he hugged the rail all the way around, smart by Karmouche to realize that Cabo Spirit drifts off
00:59:59the rail, just held a spot and took advantage of that.
01:00:02Yeah.
01:00:04All right.
01:00:04So let's move on to the disc staff where the star of the day was nitrogen.
01:00:11And there was a lot of talk coming into the race about a couple of things.
01:00:15Could she beat Fully Subscribed, who had seemed to have gotten to another level after losing to nitrogen and the
01:00:22Ogden Phipps?
01:00:23Also, could nitrogen win without getting to the lead?
01:00:27And all those questions were answered.
01:00:29Yes, she beat Fully Subscribed.
01:00:31And also, she didn't break well.
01:00:33And that forced her, Jose Ortiz, to sit third early on.
01:00:38And it didn't matter.
01:00:40Nitrogen was the dominant horse in there.
01:00:42And Randy, on the NBC broadcast, you succinctly summed up the situation very appropriately.
01:00:50When you talked about Fully Subscribed versus nitrogen, you said, she's just the better horse.
01:00:56And that's it.
01:00:57She's just the better horse.
01:00:59That's it.
01:00:59If Fully Subscribed was going to beat nitrogen, it was going to be Saturday.
01:01:04Because nitrogen, in my opinion, and again, when you look at speed figures, whether they're buyer speed figures or Theragraph
01:01:11or Ragazin or whatever you choose,
01:01:13they're not only valuable in handicapping a race ahead of time.
01:01:19They're also valuable in looking at a race after it was run and using speed figures as sort of a
01:01:26barometer for exactly what was going on in the race.
01:01:30Nitrogen got a buyer speed figure of 95.
01:01:34It was similar to the figures that she was getting earlier in the year at Oaklawn Park when she was
01:01:38off the pace.
01:01:40And also, I think, and I actually traded texts with Mark Cassidy about this yesterday.
01:01:45In my opinion, her unbelievable performance where she beat Fully Subscribed by 12 lengths, followed by a gut-wrenching second
01:01:54in the Whitney behind sovereignty,
01:01:56probably took a little starch out of her.
01:01:58I don't think she was as good in the spinster, and I certainly don't think she was as good in
01:02:03the Breeders' Cup.
01:02:04The door was wide open for Fully Subscribed to take advantage of that.
01:02:10She regressed for whatever reason.
01:02:12Maybe it's just because she had to look nitrogen in the eye again.
01:02:15But nitrogen, you know, it's one thing for a horse, a good horse, to get a good trip and win.
01:02:24But you know they're a really good horse when they're not at their best, and they don't get their best
01:02:28trip, and they win anyway.
01:02:30And that's exactly what nitrogen did.
01:02:32I'll make it quick.
01:02:33Much like the name suggests, she simply breathes different air than the other fillies this year in that bracket.
01:02:40She was brilliant.
01:02:42And the other thing, and we don't, I just want to mention this, that, you know, shout out to John
01:02:49and Len Green for the way they've campaigned this horse.
01:02:52They took the chance in the Whitney, and even though she got beat by nitrogen, it only enhanced her reputation.
01:03:00They announced earlier in the year she's going to come back at five.
01:03:03After the race, John Green mentioned perhaps a start in the Breeders' Cup Classic next year.
01:03:10Then the next morning, he talked about running her in the Pegasus World Cup.
01:03:14I wish more people would do these sort of things.
01:03:16I love the way they've campaigned this horse, and I love their sportsmanship.
01:03:20And it's a breath of fresh air in a game where not a lot of people think that way.
01:03:25Okay.
01:03:26Talking about the most impressive performance of the Breeders' Cup, we already know who the fastest horse of the week
01:03:31was by the buyer figures.
01:03:33But, you know, if you want to say, who was the most impressive horse on the day?
01:03:38Well, if there was such an award, I think T.O. Elvis might get it.
01:03:43What a performance in the Breeders' Cup sprint.
01:03:47I mean, we all loved Englishman, as we well should.
01:03:50Englishman ran his race.
01:03:52And at the eighth pole, the race was over.
01:03:55At the 16th pole, the race was over.
01:03:58Oh, no.
01:03:59Here comes T.O. Elvis, like a freight train, ran the last quarter mile on some ungodly fast time, and
01:04:07blew past nitrogen.
01:04:09What a tremendous horse he is.
01:04:12And talking about Eclipse Awards, he's based in Japan.
01:04:16He didn't violate the Bill Finley rule.
01:04:19He had two starts in the U.S.
01:04:21He's my sprint champion.
01:04:23Randy?
01:04:23Go ahead, Zoe.
01:04:24Your turn.
01:04:26He was just sensational.
01:04:29And, you know, if you'd gone back and looked, obviously, we all thought Englishman was unbeatable, right?
01:04:34This horse was sensational when he won at Churchill Downs, taking the Churchill Downs.
01:04:39That was brilliant, but nobody had seen him since.
01:04:41If you'd gone back and looked at his trial race, that's even more sensational to watch.
01:04:47This horse puts the afterburners on and just goes at it.
01:04:51I feel bad for Lee Searing and all the connections and Cherie.
01:04:55At the 16th pole, you're counting your money and you think Englishman is home free.
01:05:00Not the case.
01:05:01And my first look at the race, I had to go back and watch it again.
01:05:05I was like, I so couldn't believe the Englishman got beat.
01:05:09I'm like, did Jose fall asleep at the wheel?
01:05:11No.
01:05:12He got beat on the square.
01:05:13I got beat a length and a half, fair and square.
01:05:16That horse was incredible.
01:05:18Yeah.
01:05:19I don't think it was quite the same Englishman that we saw at Saratoga.
01:05:24But at Saratoga, he had a clear early lead and fairly soft early fractions.
01:05:29And now, you know, he was hooked up with Liam Smith in, you know, very, very fast fractions for Keeneland.
01:05:37Who drew in as well, Randy.
01:05:40Another one that drew in because of the scratches.
01:05:42Yes.
01:05:43And I think that just took a little bit of starch out of Englishman's sails.
01:05:46And but it's still it still took a fantastic effort for a horse like T.O.
01:05:52Elvis to come from behind and beat him as impressively as he did.
01:05:56And I agree with you.
01:05:56I think T.O.
01:05:57Elvis is the champion sprinter.
01:05:58Has to be.
01:06:00Well, I know, Zoe, you also have some thoughts on ways and means in the Philly and Mayor Sprint
01:06:04and the idea that she couldn't win outside of New York.
01:06:09So much for that.
01:06:11I thought she was a lock and, you know, she kind of got a tough trip.
01:06:15And yet people will be like, oh, Flavian Pratt always rides the best horse.
01:06:19That's why he gets a good trip and he looks good.
01:06:21He rode it terrifically.
01:06:22She got sucked down in the pocket.
01:06:24She got a sensational ride by him.
01:06:26Yes, she laid over the field and was by far the best horse in the race.
01:06:30She just topped the sale and sold for five million dollars.
01:06:33She was terrific.
01:06:35Absolutely terrific.
01:06:36And a Hall of Fame ride by Pratt.
01:06:38A hundred percent agree with all of that.
01:06:41And in the turf, as we mentioned earlier, one through seven, Aidan O'Brien wrapped up
01:06:45a terrific Breeders' Cup with three wins with a win by Benavito Cellini.
01:06:51Once again, Benvenuto Cellini.
01:06:54Cellini.
01:06:55Look, get used to it.
01:06:56I can't do this.
01:06:57I can't pronounce these names.
01:06:59Aidan O'Brien was telling everybody who would listen.
01:07:03Yes.
01:07:04Everybody who would listen that, yeah, you can like Diamond Necklace.
01:07:06But he said, in this race, Benvenuto Cellini is going to run exceptionally well.
01:07:11He said, if you go back and you watch his arc, he ran a much better race than it looks.
01:07:15He'd got a bad start.
01:07:16He was behind a slow pace.
01:07:18He made a big middle move.
01:07:20He was on ground that probably, you know, definitely not as firm as he was going to get at Keeneland,
01:07:24which he likes firm ground.
01:07:27And he said, don't sleep on Benvenuto Cellini.
01:07:29And boy, was he right.
01:07:31How about Ryan?
01:07:32One other thing I'd like to add, and I wrote this in the TDN, it's a little bit outside of
01:07:37the box thinking.
01:07:38But now that Aidan O'Brien is the leading trainer in Breeders' Cup history, I know we don't think of
01:07:44our Hall of Fame as being open to foreign trainers.
01:07:47But to me, the guy who's the leading trainer in Breeders' Cup history and has, you know, got many years
01:07:54to go in his career, he's 57 years old.
01:07:56He's not going anywhere for a long time.
01:07:58Let's make an exception here.
01:08:00I want Aidan O'Brien in the U.S. Hall of Fame, Zoe.
01:08:03That was a fantastic observation.
01:08:06I hadn't even thought about that.
01:08:08But it should be obvious, right?
01:08:11I mean, he has been more important to the Breeders' Cup than any other trainer.
01:08:16It's incredible, you know, the sportsmanship they've shown in bringing all these horses over.
01:08:22And, you know, Aidan always has him trained to the minute like he does over there.
01:08:25He put him in the Hall of Fame, absolutely.
01:08:28Him and Ryan Moore.
01:08:29That was a Hall of Fame rider, Benvenuto Cellini.
01:08:31He outrode the pants off everybody.
01:08:34He is just an absolute master.
01:08:37This is a guy, much like our top riders over here, he might even be better, but never gets in
01:08:43trouble.
01:08:43And, yeah, he's on the best horse a lot of times, but, my God, is he good.
01:08:48He is so good.
01:08:50Well, guys, what did you think of Bacho?
01:08:52And we know now the pronunciation is Bacho and the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
01:08:57Wesley Ward said he was the fastest horse in the world, and the horse went out and backed it up,
01:09:02Zoe.
01:09:02Oh, man, he was.
01:09:03He was.
01:09:04Now, inside speed was key at Keeneland over the course of the weekend.
01:09:07But he was brilliant, and I'm so happy for the connections, Torrey Gladwell et al.,
01:09:12a homebred for them to have this horse winner, Asker, and he won up north in York,
01:09:18and then he wins over here.
01:09:20And Juan Hernandez, you know, he stood by and watched the two Bob Baffert trainees go on to win and
01:09:25be second
01:09:26and never said a word, completely classy, said it's just business.
01:09:31He gets his first Breeders' Cup win and a terrific ride by him.
01:09:34From a handicapping perspective, I didn't like Bacho at all, with all the speed in there going five and a
01:09:40half.
01:09:41No, no, he was the speed.
01:09:44Forget about the other speed.
01:09:45He was the real speed in the race, and he showed it.
01:09:49I just want to add something really quickly.
01:09:51I think we need to applaud the Euros, like Andrew Boulding and all those guys for bringing their best Euro
01:09:58horses over here.
01:09:59Things didn't work out for Blue Bolt and Precise and Diamond Necklace,
01:10:02but the fact they even put those horses on a plane because they know they need to bring some good
01:10:07ones now is brilliant.
01:10:09And long may they keep doing it, because it was a long season for some of those girls and boys,
01:10:13and I thought it was terrific sportsmanship that they even showed up at all.
01:10:17And the fact that a Japanese horse in T.O. Elvis won in Kentucky is great for the Breeders' Cup
01:10:22looking ahead.
01:10:23I do want to remind you that each and every week, the TDN Writers' Room Work of the Week is
01:10:27brought to you by First TV.
01:10:29Well, as you might guess, the Breeders' Cup is over,
01:10:31which means that some of the more recognizable names will be off the work tab for a while.
01:10:36So we thought we'd show you the most interesting work we could find.
01:10:40And how about this?
01:10:41Let's take a look back at Sovereignty's pre-Breaders' Cup breeze.
01:10:45I know Randy was glued to this because it was excellent.
01:10:48Here he is, after he arrived at Keeneland, working on October the 25th, going four furlongs in 48-1.
01:10:55This was the move that let Bill Mott know, and everybody else, that he was ready for the Breeders' Cup.
01:11:01And indeed, Bill Mott's patient handling of the horse had gotten him ready for the biggest day of his life,
01:11:08the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:11:09We'll be right back after this message from First TV.
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01:12:01And compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:12:06West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:12:07The gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:12:10Visit westpointtv.com.
01:12:13TD and Riders Zoom also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds, whose belief in Flightline didn't end at the
01:12:21finish line of his Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:12:23As a major supporter of his stallion career, West Point celebrated a memorable double from Flightline's first crop.
01:12:31Last weekend on Championship Saturday at the Breeders' Cup.
01:12:35First race on the card.
01:12:36Powerline overcame an awful start.
01:12:39And then a very wide trip around the turn to win for trainer Steve Asmussen.
01:12:44And Flightline was ridden by Flavian Pratt, of course, the regular rider of Flightline.
01:12:49That brought back some memories at Keeneland.
01:12:51Then that Sunday at Belmont Park, it was Flightress who stretched out for the first time and drew clear to
01:12:57win by a length and three quarters for Shug McGahee and West Point's partners at Woodford Racing.
01:13:03Two promising young horses, Powerline and Flightress, carrying their sire story forward, giving the partners who get to share in
01:13:11the experience a very exciting weekend.
01:13:15All right.
01:13:16Well, that is a wrap on this week's show.
01:13:19I hope you enjoyed our review of the Breeders' Cup and all the action that took place there.
01:13:25I want to thank our Gainsway guests of the week, Bill Mott.
01:13:27I want to thank my partners, Zoe Cabin and Randy Moss, for all their great observations.
01:13:31I also want to thank the people that work behind the scenes.
01:13:33I say this each and every week, and I mean it.
01:13:35They're the ones, when this show comes out, that make it look as good as it does.
01:13:39And it does look good.
01:13:40You've got to admit that.
01:13:41And that is the team of Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:13:46We'll be back next week.
01:13:48More on the TDN Writer's Room podcast.