- 3 minutes ago
In this debate, political leaders discuss the results and implications of recent MLC elections across various states including Karnataka, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, and Maharashtra. BJP National Spokesperson Charu Pragya highlights the Congress Party's poor performance despite running an aggressive campaign around alleged electronic voting machine tampering and vote theft, noting that the electorate rejected their claims even where ballot papers were used. Pointing to the Congress's loss in Karnataka, Pragya stated that 'ballot or EVM, Congress is not winning any elections anywhere.' Meanwhile, Congress spokesperson Gurmehar Kaur defended the party's stand against institutional failures while pointing to BJP's key constituency losses in Varanasi, Gorakhpur, and Patna. Samajwadi Party spokesperson Ghanshyam Tiwari underscored the emerging opposition gains in regional bastions and challenged the ruling coalition on fair electoral practices. Political analyst Amitabh Tiwari evaluated the results as a reflection of ground booth-level voter management over social media political narratives, specifically contrasting Congress's organisational machinery against its allies and rivals.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Joining me on the show now is Charu Pragya, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
00:04We have Gurmeher Kaur, National Spokesperson of the Congress.
00:07Ghanshyam Tiwari, National Spokesperson of the Samajwadi Party.
00:11We'll be joined by Amitabh Tiwari in just a bit.
00:14Gurmeher Kaur, as of now, I'm looking at the numbers.
00:20It doesn't look very good for the Congress Party. Would you agree?
00:24You know, I feel like, I mean, of course, we've spoken about the results.
00:27We've accepted it. D.K. Shiv Kumarji has congratulated all the winners.
00:32And of course, we've been very graceful about it.
00:34However, Maharaji, I think the most revealing results of these elections have come from Bihar.
00:40And very recently now from Nagpur.
00:42I'm not sure if you've found out about those.
00:45The Congress has won the Nagpur seat.
00:48We are waiting a confirmation.
00:50What we are being told right now is that the Congress is doing well.
00:53That has not been closed till now.
00:56Well, then let's come back to, you know.
01:00The numbers that we know as of now, which is essentially that the Congress Party built an entire campaign that
01:07the vote chory is happening, that the EVM machines is faulty, that the entire election should go back to the
01:14ballot paper.
01:16And an election which is held on ballot paper, the Congress performance is dismal.
01:22Is it more to do now with organizational weakness that the Congress has?
01:28See, I think we're conflating the conversation here.
01:31When we say the vote chory campaign is not simply, oh, the Congress is losing, so there must be something
01:38wrong with the electoral system.
01:41The vote chory campaign is clearly because the CEC is not doing their job properly.
01:46It's because the CEC has been, to a large extent, working for a different, two different people.
01:53And there have been discrepancies.
01:55The other two election commissioners have raised 14, have raised issues 14 times, as the Indian Express reporting have said.
02:05So, let's not conflate these two issues.
02:07The vote chory campaign is for a fair electoral system.
02:10It's not because, oh, we've not won.
02:11In fact, if this is what the ballot result is, and I will go back again, you know, we're talking
02:17about Karnatak exclusively.
02:19Let's talk about Bihar.
02:20Let's talk about what happened in UP.
02:21Let's talk about what happened in Varanasi.
02:23You know, in Bihar, in Patna, 30 years, five consecutive terms, the BJP has been sitting on the seat.
02:30And today, the BJP has lost the Patna teachers to RGT.
02:33You know, the BJP, what does this mean?
02:35The BJP did not lose the seat in Bihar.
02:37It has lost 30 years of almost ownership on this one time.
02:41That's a way of looking at it.
02:43And as a political journalist who comes from the state of Bihar, the way I will see that result is,
02:49that it is for the Samajwadi party to pat its back.
02:52It's for the RJT to pat its back.
02:55Not for the Congress to say that its alliance partners have done well.
02:58Because the Congress, weakness is evident, which is organizational weakness.
03:04In the state of Bihar, it is RJD, which has won.
03:07And it is the Samajwadi party, which will be patting its back, Akhilesh Yadav in particular,
03:12for scoring that number in the state of Uttar Pradesh.
03:15So let me bring in Ghancham Tiwari now.
03:17Ghancham Tiwari, what does it do, this number, do to the alliance,
03:21in the run-up to the seed-shedding talks, which is happening in the state of Uttar Pradesh?
03:29Good evening, Maria.
03:30To you, the viewers and the fellow co-panelists,
03:31there are three major headlines that are emerging from today.
03:35That in Lucknow, Rajnath Singh's best hand.
03:39In Varanasi, Mr. Modi's home constituency.
03:43In Gorakhpur, where BJP took a second-hand manufactured victory.
03:47Now in Nagpur and in Patna, places that BJP would consider their fortress,
03:54they either have been defeated or they are trying to manufacture a victory.
04:00That's point number one.
04:01Point number two, that the Prime Minister's premature tweet about the MLC result shows his nervousness.
04:08The entire BJP ecosystem, their ministers, home minister, tweeted prematurely,
04:13given that Nagpur is still contested.
04:16And hopefully, by the time this show ends, BJP would have lost Nagpur,
04:20which means that they have lost Maharashtra,
04:21a state where Gyanesh Gupta's manufactured electoral system that produced a manufactured result.
04:29So it tells the story of India that when you poison the electoral system,
04:33you can manufacture an electoral outcome.
04:35I understand what you're saying in the context of the BJP.
04:38What does it do to your seed-shedding talks?
04:41Do you see this as an unreasonable demand of the Congress Party when they are asking for 170 seats to
04:48contest in the state of Uttar Pradesh,
04:50the assembly elections, which will be held in the first half of 2027?
04:56I will say this before, after making the point number three.
04:59Point number three is the Prime Minister welcomed the ballot paper election.
05:02I challenge, I challenge the Prime Minister of India, the Home Minister of India and Gyanesh Gupta,
05:08this trilogy that is destructing Indian democracy, to do the UP elections on ballot paper.
05:13They will see what the outcomes are going to be.
05:16All the results, all the constituencies which reported live stream through Twitter and other places on the day of elections,
05:23all the discrepancies, both capturing misuse of administration was done by BJP.
05:27Now to your question about seat-sharing.
05:29I think this has no bearing on seat-sharing.
05:31The seat-sharing would be decided on the wisdom of the two top leaders
05:36and the chemistry of victory rather than arithmetic of numbers.
05:41So, this dents BJP's confidence and shows their anxiety.
05:46I certainly don't see BJP's confidence being dented here.
05:50Charu Pragya, so let me bring Charu now.
05:53Charu, does this not concern you?
05:58Particularly what has been said by Ghanshyam Tiwari with regards to Varanasi, with regards to Gorakpur
06:04and what right now, of course, the numbers, the final result is yet to come of Nagpur,
06:09but particularly these two places.
06:12Does it concern you?
06:14Maria, good evening and namaste to everyone who's watching us today.
06:18Everything concerns us.
06:19I am not going to behave like the Congress party and celebrate every single moral victory
06:25like they seem to do, whether it was Lok Sabha 24 elections or this time with the MLC results.
06:30Every single election, big or small, concerns us.
06:34But at the same time, this is only indicative of what a thriving, brilliant democracy our country is.
06:40Today, when Congress wants to take to the streets and talk about vote-chori,
06:45they have been shown the mirror.
06:46They might talk about their alliance partners today,
06:48but Ghanshyam, my dear friend, is here on your show with you.
06:52Maybe he can shed some light on how much of their seats are they willing to give to the Congress.
06:57So, it's well and good on a good day to talk about alliances,
07:00but when it comes to the litmus test of that alliance, elections and contesting them together,
07:05that is when this friendship is put to the test and every single time,
07:09they have failed at keeping their flock together.
07:11So, let me be clear right now what the details that have emerged,
07:15that is for Gurmahar and also for Ghanshyam,
07:18that still there is no clarity on Congress's win.
07:22So, on this show, I would really appreciate if that is not discussed with regards to Nagpur.
07:28Let's wait for the results.
07:29I'm need of declaring, not saying anything.
07:32Let's wait for the results.
07:34And Mumbai Thak, as of now,
07:37Mumbai Thak,
07:37the Prime Minister of India,
07:38the Home Minister of India,
07:39Mumbai Thak, as of now,
07:40is reporting something which says that the BJP is leading.
07:45So, whether the Congress is leading or winning is not clear at the moment from Nagpur.
07:49So, we'll wait for the final results to come in.
07:52And so, let's hold on to that part before we jump to conclusion.
07:57Yes, go ahead, Chandra.
07:58Yeah. So, here's what I was trying to say.
08:00You know, this whole allegation and conversation around vote churi
08:04and then saying that if elections were done using the ballot box again,
08:09Congress would do really, really well.
08:11Congress didn't do well, or rather the opposition didn't do well,
08:14in all the elections or conversations also that have happened
08:18since they took to the streets with this chant of vote churi.
08:21I'll tell you how.
08:22In Delhi, Dusu elections happened.
08:24Dusu elections, the student union elections in Delhi,
08:27actually the vote is cast by the young of this country coming from every single corner of this country.
08:32So, now when the young of the country cast their vote, Congress won zero out of four seats.
08:37Again, now in these MLC elections, we very clearly see that nobody is voting for a Congress candidate at all.
08:45And as for Ghansha, I'm talking about how well Samajwadi Party has done, most respectfully,
08:51and I'm saying it in all good spirit, Samajwadi Party had performed quite well in the 24 elections as well.
08:58In the general elections, Lok Sabha elections, you had won 37 seats.
09:02So, it's not like, you know, you can say that you didn't perform well there.
09:05It's reflective of the fact that our country, our citizens…
09:09So, Kanchan, you know, what the BJP is saying and others are saying is that it's a reflection on the
09:13Congress Party,
09:14not as much on the regional parties such as parties, such as the Samajwadi Party and also the RJD.
09:20I'm going to come to Gurmeher just a bit because she wants to respond to Charu Pragya.
09:24But let me bring in Amitabh Tiwadi.
09:27Amitabh Tiwadi, your final assessment, what do you think is the big takeaway of these 28 seats?
09:33No, essentially, I mean, takeaways for both or rather the Congress Party, the BJP and the regional parties, if you
09:40see.
09:40If you see, overall, the BJP is largely holding on to what they had won in 2020 MLC polls on
09:47an overall basis.
09:48So, despite six years being passed and anti-incumbency built in, they are still holding on to what they had
09:55won in 2020.
09:57For the Congress, they have slipped, despite creating a Mahal, at least on traditional and social media,
10:04on the vote jury and the protests we have seen in the last month,
10:07which clearly shows that either the Mahal is not translating into votes,
10:12or they do not have the cadre and the leaders who translate that Mahal into votes,
10:17or that Mahal does not exist at all.
10:20So, that is all debatable and we will have to wait and see the state election results of 2027 to
10:26finally decide on that.
10:28On the regional parties aspect, if you see, especially in UP, there is increasing bipolarity now.
10:34So, the Samajwadi Party is gaining, as it had done in the 2024 Lok Sabha elections,
10:40and that is largely according to the fact that the BSP as a third force is largely a diminishing force
10:46today.
10:47So, in an increasingly bipolar election, it is becoming a very, very close election
10:52and also leading to loss or led to loss for the BJP in the 2024 Lok Sabha election.
10:59In Bihar, if you see, new parties like the Jansuraj Party are also capturing the opposition space.
11:07So, they have won one seat and also an independent as well.
11:10What is damning for the Congress Party is the result of Karnataka,
11:14because these elections you have to understand.
11:17First of all, you have to register as a voter in this election.
11:21All voters cannot vote in this election.
11:23So, whichever party is in power and has the machinery or has the ability to register a higher number of
11:31voters,
11:31generally wins these elections.
11:33So, I think Karnataka is something which the Congress will need to worry about.
11:37In other states, it was not much in presence, both in Bihar and in Uttar Pradesh.
11:43It was largely piggybacking on Samajwadi Party and the RJD.
11:47And Maharashtra will have to wait and see what happens.
11:51So, in a state like Karnataka, where you have been in power, where you are in power, Gurmur,
11:58the concern really is, what has the Congress done?
12:02Because MLC election is about management.
12:05It's about typical voter management, 5 from here, 2,500 from here, ensuring that you get the arithmetic right.
12:13Do you think all the poll managers of the Congress Party did not do that calculation?
12:20See, a lot can be said about it.
12:22And it's already been said.
12:23We've spoken about the defeat.
12:25We've been very graceful about it.
12:26I really, really want to push the conversation.
12:28One, my question is, if the Congress Party is so irrelevant,
12:31why have we spent the last 18 minutes simply talking about the Congress Party?
12:35The same question about mismanagement.
12:37Can we spoken about Patna?
12:38It can be spoken about Varanasi.
12:40What was the BJP doing in the Prime Minister's own home seat?
12:44Did they mismanage the elections there as well?
12:47Why is the question not on them?
12:49Why exclusively is the Congress being targeted?
12:51See, we, like I said, we've been fairly graceful about it.
12:55The Congress Party is not being targeted.
12:57Of course not.
12:58These are the questions that will be asked.
13:00And I'm not saying that the Congress is irrelevant,
13:03because the Congress is the principal opposition party.
13:06And all these questions will be asked to the Congress Party.
13:09I would much rather ask these questions to the government that is sitting,
13:13because I imagine that's the role of all of us in journalism
13:18or in opposition space as well,
13:19is to put the ruling party on the spot and ask them questions.
13:22Where did you miss whatever you missed, right?
13:26However, I want to move on from this conversation,
13:28and I want to talk about something even more important,
13:29which is, see, we have to, we've spoken about DU,
13:32and again, DU, the ABPP won 13% of the vote.
13:35Where did the rest of the vote go?
13:37To non-ABPP.
13:38You may have won the elections,
13:39but the voter percentage remains extremely, extremely small,
13:43and the margins very thin in all those four seats.
13:47We also have to understand about the limits of the franchise
13:50of the legislative council elections,
13:52because it is, it involves, like you said,
13:54Mariah, registered graduates, teachers, and voters.
13:57Beyond these council elections,
13:59there are very important questions that the Congress Party
14:01and the India Bloc together is raising,
14:03which is about SIR, electoral rolls,
14:05and the integrity of the elections.
14:06Let's do the elections on the ballot paper.
14:08The BGP is clearly saying so.
14:09No, but SIR doesn't apply here, right?
14:11Exactly, it doesn't.
14:12You know, in fact, one of our demands is that,
14:14And yet you didn't win, that's the point.
14:16No, but no, the point that,
14:18the point that I'm making,
14:20let's have fair elections,
14:21let's have ballot paper everywhere.
14:24What is so, I mean, why, why is it,
14:26Can I come in, Maria, please?
14:29My God, can I just come in?
14:31Yes, Charu, come in, come in, come in,
14:33because what is being highlighted here by the Congress,
14:36they are forgetting how they have done,
14:38they are highlighting how you lost
14:41in a Prime Minister's constituency of Varanasi,
14:44and how you lost in a bastion of, you know,
14:48the BJP president, which is in Patna,
14:51and then how you lost in Gorakpur,
14:54which is UP Chief Minister's constituency.
14:55Exactly, exactly.
14:57Maria, see, this is what it comes down to,
15:00to remind the Congress spokesperson,
15:02ballot or EVM,
15:04Congress is not winning any elections anywhere,
15:06and I would just put a full stop after that.
15:08Moving on from there,
15:10when have we gone around blaming anyone,
15:13and least of all, our electorate,
15:14for losing any election?
15:16And Maria, you know,
15:17you've been covering the BJP,
15:18and you've been a political journalist
15:20for the longest time,
15:21that we do not take any election lightly.
15:23At the same time,
15:24when we lose an election,
15:25we simply say,
15:26whatever the people of this country want,
15:31now that is paramount.
15:32Gurmeir, let me finish, let me finish.
15:34I mean, very politely,
15:35I have to interrupt in Delhi,
15:37that's exactly what we've said.
15:38Let me finish, let me finish.
15:39Gurmeir, just 30 seconds,
15:41let me finish a point.
15:42Gurmeir, she was patiently listening to you.
15:44I would accept.
15:46Gurmeir, she was patiently listening to you.
15:48I'm going to be speaking over you,
15:49and I would appreciate it.
15:50Go ahead, go ahead, Charu, yes.
15:52So, here's the important bit,
15:53and I was going to come to that.
15:56Today, when Congress loses all four seats in Karnataka,
16:00after their chief minister has been changed,
16:02it shows that they've got trouble in their own camp.
16:05At the same time, you know,
16:06at a time of convenience,
16:07they want to claim credit
16:08for victories of their so-called alliance partners,
16:11and they're not even in alliance anymore.
16:12And that could be concerning for the Congress.
16:16As for the BJP,
16:18Maria, tell me in Varanasi,
16:19did PM Modi get every single vote
16:21that was cast in 24 elections,
16:23or did BJP get every single vote
16:25that was cast in elections before or after that?
16:27Obviously not.
16:28And this is the point I'm trying to make in a democracy.
16:31You win some, you lose some,
16:33but when you're losing,
16:34you don't go around blaming the processes,
16:36you don't go around blaming the institutions,
16:38you don't call for the resignation
16:40of even the chief justice of India,
16:41and you definitely don't take to the streets,
16:44invite mobocracy and say,
16:46now government is going to be formed
16:47on the streets of this country.
16:49Let me bring in Ghan Sham and also Amit Aptiwari.
16:53Ghan Sham, go ahead.
16:55Well, with regards to Shahru,
16:58what is happening right now in Varanasi
17:01is exactly opposite of what she is saying about her party.
17:04Right now, people of BJP
17:06are contesting with the administration,
17:10which is also BJP.
17:11It's a triple-engine Sarkar
17:13against the results that are pending in Varanasi.
17:16That conspiracy theories are being hashed.
17:19Our national president, Akhiresh Yadavji, has tweeted,
17:21our people are guarding the entire system.
17:24This is what Gyanesh Kumar and General Shah
17:26has done to electoral system.
17:27That you have to guard your voter ID.
17:30You have to guard the name in the voter ID.
17:33You have to guard your vote when you go to poll.
17:35Then you have to guard the EVMs or ballot papers.
17:38When the results are to be declared, you have to still be on guard.
17:41It is as if there is a certain kind of decoity that is part of the system
17:46and everybody has to be in the watch to prevent that decoity.
17:51What is happening in Varanasi is shameful.
17:53And the premature tweet of the entire BJP ecosystem,
17:57including the Prime Minister and Home Minister, on Nagpur is also shameful.
18:01Devendra Farnav is tweeted on Nagpur.
18:03So, this anxiety of BJP is for two reasons.
18:06Let's wait for the results.
18:07The reason why I am saying is because the results are,
18:11particularly of Maharashtra, are still trickling in.
18:13There are three seats of which,
18:14the one has gone to the BJP,
18:16the other one to the Sheva Sena,
18:17and the other one, the third one,
18:21which is Pune,
18:22has gone to NCP Sharad Pawar.
18:25Again, the question is to the Congress Party.
18:27I am not talking as much about their alliance partners.
18:30The focus is on the grand old party,
18:33with Rahul Gandhi himself leading the charge.
18:36In fact, news is coming in,
18:38and this is with regards to the MLC polls.
18:40From Nagpur, the Congress candidate at the moment,
18:44Abhijit Vanjari, is leading with 1,350 votes.
18:49MLC polls overall,
18:51the Mahayuti has won two seats.
18:54The NCP Sharad Pawar faction has won one.
18:58The counting is still underway in Nagpur and Aurangabad.
19:03Let me bring in Amitabh Tiwari.
19:07Amitabh Tiwari, you know,
19:08this is an election which is being watched very, very closely.
19:12You know, what has been said repeatedly about the Congress Party is,
19:18that they make an effort in terms of narrative building,
19:22but when it is about the brass tacks,
19:25because election is as much about winning and losing,
19:29as much as it is about building a narrative or losing a narrative, right?
19:33So that's where the larger issue is.
19:36This is coming in the backdrop of all the campaign
19:40which has been unleashed by the leader of opposition
19:43against the election commission.
19:45And here is the result,
19:47which doesn't show the Congress Party in the right light.
19:51No, clearly, I mean,
19:54elections are Mahal versus management.
19:57And this election is particularly about management.
20:00The Congress Party can draw heart from the fact that
20:04in UP and Bihar,
20:06they were not largely in contention
20:08and piggybacking on the allies.
20:10Their losses are largely in Karnataka
20:12and emerging whatever is the final result in Maharashtra,
20:17as we will see.
20:18And this is what they will need to work upon
20:21because narratives on social media,
20:23traditional media is fine.
20:24We have seen many candidates
20:25who have millions of followers on Instagram,
20:27but when they contest election,
20:29they're not getting even 100 votes correct.
20:31So on the ground,
20:32increasing or strengthening their cadre
20:34and the door-to-door connect with the people
20:37is very, very important.
20:39So even in do-so elections,
20:40even if let's say the ABVP got 13%
20:44and 87% was polled against the ABVP,
20:48but there was not a single candidate
20:49against the ABVP.
20:51Correct.
20:52So even the SP and the Congress
20:53were contesting separately.
20:55So this is all part of management.
20:57I agree.
20:58I mean, MLC elections,
20:59Gurubhar is only and only about management.
21:02It's about ensuring
21:03that you get those teachers in your side.
21:07And the reason why this is crucial
21:10ahead of Uttar Pradesh in particular
21:13is that these teachers play an important role
21:17in the entire canvassing as well.
21:20That's why there is emphasis
21:22that is given on these elections.
21:24So really appreciate your time.
21:25Charu Pragya, Gurmeher Kaur,
21:27Ganshyam Tiwari and Amitab Tiwari.
21:28Let me go straight to Rahul Gaikwad
21:31who's joining us now.
21:32Rahul, give us the update
21:34what really is happening in Nagpur.
21:35Congress leading by 1,350 votes.
21:39How many more rounds to go?
21:40How many more votes to be counted?
21:44So we can see the fight
21:45between Congress and BJP in Nagpur.
21:49On an earlier update,
21:51the BJP candidate is on a leading position.
21:55But right now,
21:57we can see Congress candidate
21:59is now getting more votes
22:01in, you know,
22:03different, you know,
22:06different things.
22:09So now, right now,
22:10we can see
22:11there is a conflict
22:14between Congress
22:16and BJP karyakarkas also.
22:18Because on a
22:21last two, three rounds
22:22Congress candidate
22:26scoring more votes
22:27banned BJP candidate.
22:29And this is a...
22:30How many more rounds?
22:32How many more rounds?
22:57and who's going to be behind?
22:58But in fact,
22:59we can see
23:00that Congress candidate
23:03Abhijit Vanzari
23:03and BJP candidate
23:05has also got a lot of difference.
23:09The neck and neck contest?
23:11Neck and neck contest
23:12at the moment?
23:13Can we say that, Rahul?
23:15Yes, we can say that
23:16the neck to neck
23:18contest right now.
23:19And in a few minutes,
23:23we can see
23:23the clear picture
23:24who is winning in Nashville.
23:25The picture will emerge
23:27very clearly
23:28in the next few minutes,
23:28perhaps.
23:29So we really appreciate
23:30your time.
23:30Of course,
23:31thank you so much
23:32for joining us.
23:33The reason why
23:34these elections matter,
23:35viewers,
23:35is that this is coming
23:37in the backdrop
23:38of the entire campaign
23:40that was started
23:41by Rahul Gandhi
23:42against Votchori.
23:44What he alleged
23:45was Votchori.
23:46And then this kind
23:48of result,
23:48particularly in the state
23:50that the Congress
23:51is in power,
23:53raises the question
23:54of election management.
23:55Or should I say
23:56mismanagement?
23:57Lots to ponder
23:58for the Congress
23:59party tonight,
24:00even as we look
24:01at the Samajwadi party
24:03holding its ground
24:04and doing better
24:05in the state
24:06of Uttar Pradesh
24:07and in the state
24:09of Bihar,
24:10RJD managing that seat.