- 2 hours ago
The cast of the movie Thirteen reunites to talk about filmmaking process.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00And I just looked at you and I go, Nicky, why don't we just write it about the real stuff
00:03that you're going through?
00:04Let's just tell the real shit.
00:05You're like, okay, done.
00:07You're like, okay, fine.
00:09Because we were trying so hard to find grounded things to spring the comedy from.
00:13Why make it up?
00:15That's right.
00:15Let's just do the real stuff.
00:29I don't know we were writing a movie that we were going to actually shoot that was going to come
00:35out in theaters.
00:36I've tried to get so many other movies made before, so I didn't believe it would happen either.
00:41I remember we did a handshake.
00:42I go, okay, if we write this, you get to star in it, and I get to direct it, okay?
00:46We did?
00:47Yeah, yeah, no, we had a handshake.
00:49And we were both like, yeah, that'll never happen, because I'd never got to direct a movie.
00:54You hadn't acted.
00:55So, you know, we didn't think it could possibly happen.
01:00I feel like that's one of the reasons why this movie was kind of like lightning in a bottle,
01:03because it just kind of happened, and everyone was in the right place at the right time,
01:07and it was the right people, and we didn't know what was going to happen for it, with it.
01:11And at least for me, I feel like it was just this pure kind of like thing that happened.
01:16And then afterwards, we went, oh, my God.
01:19What did we do?
01:20We made this thing.
01:21It was a total accident.
01:22Nothing to lose.
01:24Role that, like, is going to hit you in a place and give you permission to let things out that
01:30you've never been able to do before.
01:31That's why I believe it was lightning in a bottle.
01:33It was just like, I had no fear doing that movie.
01:36Nothing intimidated me.
01:37Like, nothing.
01:38I knew the character.
01:39I knew what to do.
01:41I felt it.
01:43And I just had no fear.
01:46You know, it was a total accident.
01:47Because we did it in six days.
01:48We did the first draft, and then I was like, we are going to make this while Nikki is still
01:5313.
01:53And I was like, we're going to make it in the next four months.
01:55And everyone's like, what are you nuts?
01:58And I was just determined to do it.
02:01And then I couldn't even get through to you until we got Holly.
02:04Well, no, I read the script, and the script scared me.
02:07And I honestly didn't trust.
02:11I didn't believe that somebody was going to do it right.
02:13Because I had seen so many bad teen movies, and I was just like, this is so intense.
02:19If you do this wrong, then it's so wrong.
02:21And then, even when Holly signed on, I was like, yeah, well, that's amazing.
02:26Because that's like, okay, this is going to be done right.
02:28But then I was like, I still don't know.
02:30But it was so real for you.
02:32And that was my first moment of...
02:34And nobody really knew how real it was for me.
02:36And that's what made it even better.
02:37But it was really painful for a long time, and maybe not for them.
02:41Because they had...
02:43By they, I mean my mom, my brother, my dad.
02:47I still look back, and I think, how were you guys so willing to...
02:55Open.
02:56Yeah, to sort of open the literal and metaphorical doors and windows and everything.
03:03And just expose everything.
03:05And not only that, I don't mean to take away from the truth that exists in this film.
03:10Because it's so very truthful.
03:12But truthful in the sense that it came from the perspective of a child, in a sense.
03:17And that's beautiful, right?
03:19It's raw and it's relatable.
03:20I think about what my parents must have gone through.
03:24And I just have to say, you know, I really applaud them.
03:28Because they wanted me, and they still want me to this day, to express myself in whatever
03:34way feels authentic and honest and transparent without stepping in.
03:41And that is something that I've learned from them.
03:44And hopefully will be able to put into my own parenting journey.
03:49But it was hard.
03:50I didn't feel, at least doing it, you know, because I separated myself.
03:55And to me, it was a story.
03:57So even when I was working on it, I think I put that out of my head so I could
04:02focus on
04:02that.
04:03And I always was like, I didn't feel like either parent was a bad guy.
04:09I just felt like everyone was just like doing their fucking best.
04:12It's not lost on me that anything that is going to have an impact like that is painful.
04:20I think, you know, art is painful, truth is painful, storytelling is painful.
04:26It requires an incredible amount of vulnerability.
04:29And, you know, it's not easy, but it was important and it was special.
04:36And it's helped a lot of people.
04:39What's the first thing you think about, one word, when you think about 13, the movie?
04:44There's so many, it was such a, I don't know.
04:47A whirlwind.
04:48Yeah, it's hard to find one word or one thought to describe it.
04:55I mean, it's still so much a part of my life and your life and your life.
05:00And, you know, that movie brought up so much for me, not just because it was so personal,
05:08but because I felt the sort of the repercussions of all of it for many, many years after that.
05:17And so I think in that regard, I had a very different relationship with it than maybe the two of
05:24you did,
05:24just because it lived in my home and with my family and how that affected them.
05:29And so I spent many years after that trying to sort of sort out my feelings.
05:34And I love, I guess the first thing I think about is how much I, I love what that movie
05:41did for all of us in different ways.
05:45But that's, it changed all of our lives.
05:48Oh, yeah.
05:48That was the movie for all three, I feel like.
05:51I was thinking about that today.
05:53It's like, oh, yeah, my life was never the same after doing that.
05:56And it stuck with me, for sure.
05:58We got together five years, four or five years ago to do a little live Q&A.
06:01And we talked about all those things that we had never really explored before.
06:05Like, what it is, you know, we had that relationship on the screen, which was, and we talk about this
06:10openly a lot.
06:11Like, girlfriends, that is your first love.
06:15Love, sort of.
06:15I mean, they always kind of, it kind of mirrors that, right?
06:17Like, it's so intense, those feelings you have as a young girl for other girls.
06:21And then you, you broke out and you were like, well, actually, yeah, I was like, yes, those were all
06:28there.
06:29And also this, like, hidden sexuality that I had not explored yet at all.
06:35But like, but also, but I do remember at the time, like, it didn't, that wasn't, looking back, I'm like,
06:41oh, yeah, that's totally what it was.
06:42But I think it is confusing when you're at that age, too, when you just feel that intensely about anyone.
06:48Um, and I just remember, yeah, you just have this really intoxicating energy.
06:55And it was like, I think we, both of us were mature for our ages in some aspects, obviously, not
07:03in others.
07:04But like, it was nice to have that connection.
07:06And I just remember feeling like I could tell you anything.
07:09And like, we just, we would talk about everything.
07:12And like, and then there were moments for like, you drove me crazy.
07:16But then there were moments that I was completely in love with you.
07:18And it was just like any other, you know, weird whirlwind romance that wasn't a romance.
07:24You know what I mean?
07:25It was very much like the movie.
07:26Yeah.
07:26Yeah.
07:27It's a different kind of romance.
07:28Yeah, for sure.
07:29Because it was, you guys almost went through everything.
07:31And you broke up.
07:32I think you did.
07:33And we broke up.
07:34And then we had to talk about it when we were like 25.
07:37Yeah, we did.
07:38Yeah, we finally got to talk about it.
07:38Because neither of us knew why we broke up.
07:40Yeah.
07:41Did we?
07:41Did we know why?
07:42No.
07:42I think we were young and going through.
07:45It wasn't you, it was me.
07:46Everything that we were going through.
07:48Exactly.
07:48And we were both dealing with our own crap.
07:49And like, it just.
07:50Being a teenager is hard.
07:52Being a teenage girl is hard.
07:53And then we were thrust into the success of 13.
07:55And then I think everything just got kind of nuts for us.
07:59And I think something that people don't know that we weren't even necessarily aware of at the time is,
08:05I hope I don't say this the wrong way, but there was like this weird,
08:10we're going to put this on you guys to like be competitive when we didn't want to feel that way
08:15in comparisons.
08:17Well, that's usually what happens, especially with young'uns in the industry.
08:20Yeah, but we weren't prepared for that.
08:22I mean, I know I wasn't.
08:23And I don't think you were either.
08:24So we had this kind of innocence about our relationship that was so personal to us.
08:29It was ours and it was so real.
08:30And then because a lot of that was in the movie,
08:33when it became something that the press could talk about,
08:36suddenly it was like our actual relationship in a sense was put out there for people to talk about.
08:41And they were comparing, they were comparing us a lot.
08:44And it was just very strange.
08:45It was strange, yeah.
08:46And it made like a weird energy.
08:47I think it made us both really uncomfortable and so weird.
08:49And then I think we both thought we were upsetting the other one.
08:52And we weren't.
08:53And we had to talk about it when we were 25.
08:55I actually went to your house and I said,
08:58you know, I haven't talked to Evan in so long and I really miss her.
09:00And you gave me her number and I said,
09:02do you think she would even want me to call her?
09:04And you were like, yeah, she loves you.
09:07Or you guys are in such a similar space.
09:09We had both gotten married and I called you and it was so cool.
09:12You were like, what are you doing tomorrow?
09:13Did I just come over?
09:15Why would this take 10 years?
09:18We had to go on our own journeys.
09:21I don't know, man.
09:22I mean, we were at that age.
09:23It's that age when everything's crazy and you're turning into a woman
09:26and everything's nuts and hormones are crazy
09:29and you don't know what's happening.
09:31You couldn't pay me to go back to that age.
09:34Oh, no.
09:34No, no, no, no, no, no.
09:36I'm so glad that age is over.
09:38So glad.
09:38So before 13 and before you read the screenplay,
09:44like all the stuff that those girls were experiencing in the film,
09:50had you heard of any of that stuff?
09:52Like, was it super shocking or did you feel like you could relate to it?
09:58What was it like as an outsider?
10:00None of it was shocking to me.
10:03No, none of it.
10:04I hadn't really, like, done drugs or, like, you know,
10:09I was a lot of talk sex-wise but, like, wasn't really doing much.
10:13But the emotions and that feeling of frustration and being lost and being angry
10:22and the dynamics with the family and the cutting and things,
10:26those were things where I was like, oh, I know what this is.
10:30Like, I understand this really well.
10:32And I had a need in me, like Tracy, to just explode.
10:38And acting was something I did so that I could do that
10:40because I felt like I couldn't do it anywhere else.
10:42And I was pretty, like, I think people thought I was kind of perfect and shy
10:47and didn't have anything really going on.
10:50And it was like, no, I've got a lot going on.
10:51I just save it for when the cameras are rolling.
10:54Just to add to that, I also was all talk with a lot of the things,
10:58like most girls that are that age, you know, like when you go,
11:00I've got boobs but I'm really just wearing a padded bra.
11:03Like, I started my period but I really haven't.
11:04You know, all the things that you want to say have happened.
11:06There's so much talk.
11:07Because you feel like you have to because everyone else started saying it's happening.
11:10And with all of the things, like, sex-related that were going on and that.
11:14So a lot of that was written because I was all talk
11:17and because I wanted to say I had done that.
11:19I felt to say it isn't actually happening.
11:22But ironically, some of the most, like, intense things I had done,
11:26even in real life, happened on screen for the first time.
11:29And I was doing a lot of the things for the first time there
11:33that I claimed I had already done because we had written about it,
11:36if that makes sense.
11:37So that was also very strange and really scary for me, actually.
11:41Okay, looking back at your life at 13,
11:46do you think that being a teenager is more difficult today than it was then?
11:51And had we had social media, it would have been worse or better?
11:58I have a very specific relationship with social media.
12:03I, in many ways, think it's like the end of humanity.
12:08And I can't imagine being a teenage girl now because of it.
12:13We were much more present, I think, then.
12:15That's one thing you can say.
12:16I mean, we were experiencing things in a very visceral, like, potent, right?
12:23Yeah, and I wonder now if kids,
12:26not that we want them to be having those exact experiences,
12:29but I wonder now if kids are able to fully experience
12:32because they're so busy documenting,
12:35and we live in such a digital age
12:38where it's more about showing that you've done something
12:40than actually doing it.
12:41And my heart hurts.
12:43And also, you know, everyone's so busy putting out their best selves
12:47on these little two-dimensional devices and imagery,
12:52and that's not real, you know?
12:54That's not real.
12:55And imagine being 14 and seeing all your friends in school,
12:59like, what party they went to that you weren't invited to,
13:01and, you know, all the, now you can, like, track your friends
13:03Being able to actually hear everything that people are saying, mind you about.
13:06Sure.
13:07I definitely would not want to be a teenage girl right now,
13:10and I think it's important that we keep talking about that, by the way.
13:13Catherine and I have spent the last year
13:15talking a lot about what the next iteration of 13 would be,
13:19and it's difficult to really describe
13:24that experience now because of this digital age.
13:27That would be way easier to hide things, actually.
13:29That's a very good point, too.
13:32Simultaneously.
13:33While everything's out there, you're hiding things at the same time.
13:35Well, we wouldn't have to speak in gibberish.
13:36We'd just text each other.
13:38You know?
13:38I mean, you wouldn't have to, you would, you would,
13:40it would be so much easier to hide things,
13:42probably to get whatever we wanted.
13:45There are times I wish I had had it,
13:47because there was a lot of things I was going through
13:48where I thought I was the only one,
13:50and I feel like now, if you're feeling something,
13:53you can look it up, or you can follow something,
13:55or you can, now there's information
13:58that I feel like had I had in my hand,
14:01I would have been like, oh my God,
14:02I could stop being so mean to myself.
14:04Like, this is normal, and like, you guys are the ones that are crazy.
14:08Right.
14:08So what would you like to say to the 13-year-old today?
14:11I would tell myself to love myself first,
14:15and happiness will follow.
14:17I think there was this illusion
14:18that other things would make me happier.
14:20Being a certain way would make me happy,
14:22because it would make people accept me or love me,
14:27but, and I was completely missing the part about loving yourself.
14:30I don't think I learned that until way late.
14:33And that was the, that ended up being the foundation for everything good.
14:36I don't know.
14:37So how could a teenager figure that out earlier?
14:42I mean, it's hard when all of society
14:44is angled towards making you feel shitty about yourself,
14:48especially if you're a woman.
14:49You know what I mean?
14:50It's like, the second you walk out your door,
14:52the whole world is designed to kind of make you feel small.
14:54To dissect you and criticize you.
14:56So is one thing to do to celebrate each other
15:00and everybody a bit more,
15:02and like, be more positive,
15:03and help you feel like not everybody wants to put you down,
15:07but we love you too and support you somehow?
15:12I dove headfirst into mentoring young, young women, young girls,
15:17and I found that there was a lot of power in giving them a voice,
15:24but maybe that was my, my journey,
15:28and I think I felt a lot of that support
15:31and felt very empowered because you gave me that voice.
15:35Okay, you guys both have kids, a boy and a girl.
15:39How does it make you think about the movie in a different way?
15:42Would you want your son to watch it?
15:44Would you want your daughter to watch it?
15:45What age?
15:46I show it to my son.
15:48I think boys need to be watching more female-centric films anyway
15:50so they have a better understanding about women and the opposite sex.
15:55Because I feel like we don't show boys movies starring girls
15:59because like, oh, well, that's a girl's movie,
16:00and then they just never get that perspective,
16:02and then it causes all kinds of problems later.
16:06So I think it would be good for boys to see this.
16:09Does it make you see the movie differently now that you're a mom?
16:12It's much harder to watch now.
16:14It is.
16:14I think.
16:16I haven't seen it for a few years.
16:18Yeah, I can't really watch it.
16:20Yeah, like every three or four years, I think I revisit it.
16:24But the first time I revisited
16:27was really painful.
16:29I remember I waited a long time.
16:31I think I was 20 or something like that.
16:33I mean, after all, the press and everything.
16:35But I see it all differently.
16:37I'm totally terrified, and I'm also really grateful for it.
16:39I feel like I have a really good understanding
16:42of some of the things that are going on.
16:45But like you said earlier,
16:46it doesn't really matter how you navigate it.
16:49A lot of it, things happen the way that they happen.
16:52And it's about having that open communication in a household,
16:54and I think this movie did that for a lot of people
16:57because I think that's the one thing I heard the most
16:59from moms and daughters.
17:01Like, thank you guys for giving us a chance to...
17:06Because how else do you bring that stuff up?
17:08And I think that parents felt like their kids
17:13would have this undeniable reaction to,
17:16like emotional reaction,
17:17or I had a lot of moms come up to me and say like,
17:19I realized halfway through when my daughter was just sobbing
17:23that this must have been her story,
17:25and like I had to figure out how to talk about it then.
17:28So it gave them that.
17:31Yeah.
17:31Okay.
17:32Mm-hmm.
17:32What was the scene that shocked people the most?
17:34I don't know.
17:36I still, well...
17:37It was the cutting and it was also the...
17:39I think it was also the depth that we brought
17:43to the emotion as well.
17:45I think what's really unnerving when I watch it now
17:48as a parent with distance from it is like,
17:50yeah, I know all this stuff is going on,
17:52but it's like you get to see the pain
17:54that they're always covering up.
17:56It was the reasoning why all of this was happening
18:00that it was that next step, I think.
18:03Because, you know, we've seen shocking images
18:05and we've seen movies, you know,
18:07few and far between about teenagers doing shocking things,
18:10but not as well as the pain that comes with it.
18:15And I think we showcased both really honestly.
18:18I think it depends on who's watching it
18:20because they don't...
18:23Like, I know that there are people
18:25that literally could not even believe
18:28there were two young girls kissing
18:30and that you had the audacity to film that.
18:33Like, I remember that being a reaction to, like,
18:36what was she thinking?
18:38Like, why would you guys ever...
18:40You know, like, as if we were exploiting something
18:42or doing something that wasn't...
18:44And for Evan and I, we were like,
18:45oh, man, we just made out in the trailer
18:46like 10 minutes ago.
18:47Like, this is so not a big deal.
18:49This is safe.
18:49But I still watched that back and I go,
18:51so why was I in that state, you know?
18:53That's my journey with it.
18:55I think it was lack of opportunity for me.
18:58Like, I feel like at the time
18:59there was, like, two ways a girl could go.
19:01It was, like, you're perfect and virginal
19:03or you're wild and crazy.
19:05And there was nothing in between.
19:07I didn't feel like...
19:08And then, you know, you look around the world
19:10and it's, like, your destiny
19:12and who you should be is just decided for you,
19:14especially as a woman.
19:15I think it's getting better.
19:16I think there's more...
19:17There's definitely more options
19:18and that's one thing I like about social media
19:20is, like, it's like, oh, okay,
19:21there's people here that I relate to.
19:23Instead of just, like,
19:24your option is whatever
19:26other people decide gets put
19:28on screen or in a magazine
19:30for you to relate to.
19:31But it's not necessarily who you are.
19:33And sometimes you have to see the thing
19:35to be the thing.
19:36And when you're young,
19:37you're looking for who to be
19:38and you're very limited to options,
19:40at least at that time.
19:41So, Catherine,
19:42do you think that Hollywood studios
19:44would be more receptive
19:46to a film like this today
19:47given the renewed attention
19:48towards women's stories?
19:50Yeah, if you guys were superheroes,
19:53wearing tights,
19:54zipping through the sky,
19:56maybe,
19:57because I still think
19:58it's really difficult
19:59to get a movie like this made
20:00because I've basically been trying
20:02for the last 15 years.
20:04I mean, it's still hard.
20:06It's not, like,
20:07exactly a high concept,
20:10you know?
20:10Right.
20:11And I think it's still challenging.
20:13I mean, people want more
20:14female-centric stories,
20:16but they want action.
20:18Like, can we kick ass?
20:20You know?
20:21Well, one thing that's
20:22really important, though,
20:23is introducing more
20:24female directors,
20:25which I think we've seen
20:26a lot more of that,
20:27which is great.
20:28Female writers.
20:29Female writers, yeah.
20:30Ava and Greta and...
20:32Yeah, no, there's...
20:34Catherine and Catherine.
20:35No, it's cool.
20:36The people are more open
20:38to more writers,
20:39directors, producers.
20:40Because it takes that for...
20:41It takes women
20:42to tell female stories.
20:43I mean, with the same
20:45authenticity and voice,
20:47so that, I will say,
20:48at least we're going
20:50in the right direction there.
20:51But I agree with you.
20:52It's hard.
20:53I still think this would be
20:54a hard one to get made.
20:55Okay, so why do you guys
20:56think people still come up to you,
20:58me, all of us,
20:59and say something?
21:00Like, literally,
21:00the other day,
21:01I've got to say one funny thing.
21:02A woman came up to me,
21:03she's like 28 or 30,
21:05working at a cool company.
21:07She goes, you know what?
21:07I saw 13,
21:08and it scared her straight,
21:10and she never drank
21:11or smoked in her life
21:12or did any drugs.
21:13I'm like, wow,
21:14I've never had anybody
21:15say that to me.
21:16But that's what happened to her.
21:18That's awesome.
21:18Everybody has a different experience.
21:21Other people probably
21:21got turned on.
21:22A couple of times,
21:23I heard the, like,
21:24oh, man,
21:25I really wanted to be you,
21:26and I was like, no!
21:27Yeah.
21:27That was a character
21:28you shouldn't want to be.
21:29No!
21:31Yeah, that one,
21:32but, you know,
21:33I guess that's the responsibility
21:34that comes with it, right?
21:36I think that this movie
21:37still speaks to people
21:39because it's a theme
21:41that doesn't have
21:43a time period attached to it,
21:45or a, yeah,
21:46I mean, like,
21:47why does Romeo and Juliet,
21:49why does that speak to people still?
21:50Why does young love
21:52and, you know,
21:53heartache
21:54and firsts,
21:55firsts really speak to people?
21:57And I think it's because
21:58you don't get them again,
22:00and so we spend our whole lives
22:01chasing our firsts,
22:02and that first thing
22:04that we had,
22:05that we experienced,
22:06that love,
22:08that friendship,
22:09that sense of discovery
22:11and figuring out who you are,
22:12and I've never done this before,
22:13and it's so dangerous,
22:14and it's so exhilarating,
22:15and it's so bad,
22:16and I'm so upset over it,
22:18and everything is so heightened,
22:20and it's very specific
22:21to that time period,
22:22and I think it just reminds people
22:24of what it feels like
22:25to be alive,
22:28I mean,
22:28I don't think,
22:29I don't know,
22:29I don't know if there,
22:31I don't know if there will ever be
22:32anything quite like it.
22:34No.
22:35There can't really be
22:36the same exact thing.
22:38It was kind of just magic
22:39when it happened,
22:40you know?
22:41But people still talk to me about it.
22:43I mean,
22:45I think just yesterday,
22:46people come up to me on the street
22:48and want to talk,
22:49in a different way,
22:50by the way.
22:50It's not,
22:53they want to share,
22:54they want to share why.
22:55Mm-hmm.
22:56It matters.
22:57Why it mattered,
22:58yeah.
22:58And it,
22:59you know,
22:59you really want to connect
23:01on that level.
23:01Like,
23:02I love,
23:02I love hearing stories,
23:04and I love,
23:05I don't know,
23:06it means so much to me.
23:07I don't,
23:08I think this will,
23:11in my mind,
23:12always remain the best thing
23:13that I've ever done,
23:14no matter how much I do,
23:15even though it's different now,
23:17and I'm older,
23:17and I'm doing different things,
23:18and it's still amazing,
23:20and I'm still really proud
23:21of everything,
23:21but there was such a purity
23:22about this one
23:23that I just know
23:24I'll never be able to recreate,
23:25because you only get that one time,
23:27you know?
23:27And then the world knows about you,
23:29and then you go on your own thing,
23:30and you're still,
23:30it's still great,
23:31but that was just creating,
23:34and just acting,
23:35and nothing else.
23:37It just was what it was.
23:38And also just living.
23:40Just living, yeah.
23:40It was also just,
23:43yeah,
23:44it was a little slice
23:45that is, like,
23:46forever preserved.
23:47Well, in my mind,
23:48I think it's the best thing
23:50that you used to
23:50every night before I thought things up,
23:52because I thought
23:53it's just absolutely pure
23:55and incredible,
23:56and so I keep,
23:57you know,
23:58looking at everything they do,
23:59and I'm like,
24:00okay,
24:00I want the best,
24:01I have bigger parts,
24:02and more awesome things do,
24:04because I know
24:04how amazing them both are,
24:06so.
24:06And so now,
24:08of course,
24:08you know,
24:09awesome,
24:09beautiful wives.
24:11I'm so,
24:11like,
24:12I couldn't be more
24:12amazed and proud
24:14at what these two have done.
24:16It's like,
24:17holy shit,
24:18you know,
24:19between all the beautiful roles
24:21you've done,
24:22all your roles,
24:23and all the foundation,
24:24all the inspiration,
24:25it's pretty,
24:27it's pretty exciting.
24:29It's pretty wild.
24:29It's pretty exciting.
24:30Yeah.
24:31It's pretty wild.
24:31It's pretty wild.
24:31It's pretty wild.
24:32It's pretty wild.
24:32It's pretty wild.
24:33It's pretty wild.