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This broadcast of To The Point, hosted by Preeti Choudhry, tracks two major national debates: growing scrutiny facing the Election Commission of India and reported revisions to the Agnipath recruitment scheme.
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00:00Good evening viewers, you are watching To The Point. I am Freethi Chaudhary.
00:04Two debates lined up for you, but before we get into them, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:14Home Minister Amit Shah leads Safe Democracy, Eradicate Anarchy Padhyatra in Haryana,
00:19dares Rahul to debate SIR in Parliament, slams Rahul's protest march, calling it Ghuspetia Bachao Yatra.
00:28I want to challenge Rahul Ji. I want to challenge Narendra Modi Ji for the church.
00:37We are prepared for the church for the church.
00:41We are prepared for the church for the church.
00:49At least two people died after a building collapse in Delhi's Chaudhary Bazaar.
00:54Rescue operations continue in full swing.
00:57Delhi Chief Minister Rekha Gupta takes stock suspense to engineers.
01:08Poll bodies, big SIR process rejig, ECI delinks form 6 from SIR declaration,
01:15which were reportedly flagged by two election commissioners.
01:18New IT modules to be also scrutinized by a committee.
01:30Different year, but same old story.
01:33Capitals air quality at hazardous levels.
01:35AQI breaches for 50 mark.
01:37BJP and Ahmad Mipati blame game continues.
01:47The Centre tells Supreme Court that it is considering constituting a committee to revisit the controversial UGC rules introduced to
01:57prevent caste discrimination in educational institutes.
02:05Cristiano Ronaldo bids farewell to Portugal on a SIR note,
02:09announces retirement from international football after public fallout with coach.
02:16It's time to deliver the future.
02:28All right, we have the latest news break coming in where the AQI is concerned of the national capital amidst
02:36worsening air in Delhi.
02:37The India versus Sri Lanka match has been postponed.
02:41First ODI between India and Sri Lanka, which was to be played on December 13th, has now been shifted from
02:47Delhi to Vishakhapatna.
02:48The venue change has been made following a request from Delhi and District Cricket Association in view of the potential
02:56weather disruptions and the proposed renovation work at the stadium.
02:59Because one thing is clear that this is deeply embarrassing for Delhi and India where we have to shift cricket
03:06matches now to different cities or even countries because we cannot deal with our AQI levels.
03:12I want to quickly bring in my colleague Nitin Srivastava who is joining in with the very latest on this
03:18news break.
03:19Nitin, what more can you add?
03:21Well, there was a request from DDCA to shift the first ODI match between India and Sri Lanka, which was
03:25actually planned and scheduled for 13th December in Delhi at the Arun Jetli Stadium.
03:30But now BCCI has changed the venue from Delhi to Visakh.
03:33And DDCA in the letter clearly had mentioned that the stadium is going to, you know, under renovation.
03:38And also in the month of December, the weather will not be the same as we, you know, stand today.
03:43So that is the major reason keeping in mind the pollution, you know, and the weather.
03:48BCCI decided to move the venue from Delhi to Visakh.
03:52You know, in the history also, we have seen a lot of cricket match being played in winter, especially in
03:57December, January.
03:59The matches were halted. Players complained, you know, about the weather.
04:03So that was one of the major reasons why BCCI decided to move the venue from Delhi to Visakh.
04:10All right, so the venue has been moved from Delhi to Visakh.
04:13But Nitin, this is not the first time that either a cricket match has been halted or suspended because of
04:21poor air quality.
04:23Well, absolutely. I clearly remember India, you know, Sri Lanka actually was playing at Arun Jetli Stadium.
04:28It was a test match between India and Sri Lanka.
04:30And Sri Lankan players started complaining about the weather.
04:33They, you know, met match referee and they complained about the weather.
04:37They said that they cannot actually continue to play in such conditions.
04:42So for a few hours that test match was halted.
04:45Again, I remember Bangladesh was playing in India at the same very ground.
04:49And they also complained to the empires and match referees that match was halted for a few hours.
04:54So in winters, especially in December, January, because of the weather, because of the, you know, the pollution,
05:02the players actually have made a lot of, you know, complaints to, you know, the hosting body.
05:07But BCCI, they had opted to move the game, especially this game, which is actually scheduled for 13th of December.
05:16But BCCI, after getting that letter from DDCA, they decided it's actually good to take a move.
05:21And this match has been moved from Delhi to Vishakhapatra.
05:25All right, Nitin, thank you for joining us with the latest updates, because this is deeply embarrassing.
05:30Coming in where the national capital cannot host the capital of the country, cannot host a sporting event,
05:37because we haven't been able to fix our air quality index.
05:41Thank you, Nitin.
05:42With that, viewers, I want to quickly cut across to what we're debating this evening.
05:47The Election Commission is now facing mounting scrutiny.
05:49Five weeks after the Indian Express flagged key flashpoints with the functioning of the Election Commission,
05:58the EC has moved several of those concerns, moved on several of those concerns,
06:03triggering fresh opposition charges of a cover-up and cost correction under pressure.
06:07above the battle over Vochori is no longer confined to the Commission.
06:12The BJP and the opposition taking their fights to the streets.
06:15Here's more.
06:22The Election Commission is in the eye of a political storm.
06:26And now, facing a series of questions, appears to be on a course correction path.
06:31An Indian Express investigation flagging an alleged rift within the Election Commission
06:36has set off political shockwaves.
06:39And in the five weeks since the report, the Commission has moved on several of the concerns flagged.
06:44Eight flashpoints.
06:46Eight responses.
06:49First, Form 6.
06:51The Charge.
06:52SIR declaration inserted without a formal amendment.
06:55The EC has now de-linked the declaration from the online form.
07:00Agendas and minutes allegedly missing.
07:02The EC has now made both mandatory.
07:05IT modules allegedly developed without the Commission's knowledge.
07:09Now, new projects will face committee scrutiny.
07:12An ECINET audit was demanded but never conducted.
07:16Now, a panel has been set up with independent experts on board.
07:20Field officers allegedly denied access to ECINET.
07:24The EC has now delegated more powers to officers on the ground.
07:28Voters left of the roles faced enrollment hurdles.
07:32The EC has now ordered special drives and summary revisions.
07:36And in Bengal, Sandhu flagged gaps in the SIR appeals process.
07:40The EC maintains the CEO's office filed the appeals under the RP Act.
07:46But for the Congress, these changes are not course corrections.
07:50They are evidence of the Commission being forced to backtrack.
08:09The battle over the ballot is no longer confined to the election commission's corridors.
08:14The political temperature is soaring and the fight for the narrative is now spilling onto the streets.
08:23The BGP is leaving no stone unturned to counter Rahul Gandhi's vote-chory campaign.
08:29Taking its Lok Tantra Bachao and Rajakta Hatau offensive across states.
08:35From Haryana to Uttar Pradesh, the BGP's top brass is leading the charge.
09:07This is a burden on the government's hands.
09:30The Congress isn't backing down either.
09:33In Bengaluru, India bloc leaders took to Freedom Park, demanding Gyanesh Kumar's resignation and cancellation of the SIR exercise.
09:42We have made a demand very clear. Gyanesh Kumar should resign.
09:48People are asking questions, the CEC is missing and unable to answer any questions that are being posed to them.
09:54Why is the government helping in Gyanesh Kumar being hidden?
10:01One battle is playing out inside the election commission, another on the political streets.
10:07The EC's course corrections may address some procedural concerns, but they have done little to cool the political confrontation.
10:15Bureau Report, India Today.
10:25All right, news break coming in amidst the vote chodi showdown. Rahul Gandhi will now meet party leaders to chalk
10:30out the strategy ahead.
10:32He's called state ministers, general secretaries and state in charges at 5pm on Friday at his residence.
10:39That's the latest news break that we are getting in.
10:43Pretty much of a Diwali Milan there where he has called at 5pm at his residence, state in charges, general
10:49secretaries and state ministers.
10:52I want to cut across to Moshmi. Moshmi, it comes in a day before Diwali.
10:57You know, some would say that Rahul Gandhi usually is not consistent.
11:01I think his own party will say you're being too consistent, at least right now, especially before Diwali.
11:06What's on the agenda?
11:09You know, this festive season, we see clearly that Moshmi has been really politically charged up and surely the leaders
11:19would have not expected that they will be summoned from all across the country.
11:24You know, state ministers, party, general secretary in charges of states, all these leaders have been summoned.
11:33That means essentially Himachal, Telangana, Karnataka, all the Congress-ruled states and Kerala, of course.
11:42You see these ministers pouring tomorrow for a high tea of thoughts with Rahul Gandhi at Suneribad, which is to
11:50chalk out the strategy ahead.
11:52And of course, when I checked with one of these leaders, they said it's a Diwali Milan on Dhan Terak
11:57that Rahul Gandhi has called.
11:59So, perhaps, you know, keeping up the momentum.
12:02Just a day back, he went to Sunrur for the Punjab campaign and now he's back in action here in
12:09the national capital.
12:10All right. Thank you, Moshmi, for joining us with that quick update.
12:14We'll keep a keen eye on developments there, but I want to cut across right now viewers to our panelists
12:18and we'll go back to what have been eight times over the last five weeks.
12:23Cost corrections, you can call it, some would say damage control by the election commission at the back of news
12:29reports,
12:30which seem to suggest malfunctioning and malpractice alleged at that where the election commission of India is concerned.
12:37Joining me this evening is Mr. O.P. Rawat, former EC.
12:41I have with me Advocate Arshdeep Khadyal, National Spokesperson Congress, Radhika Khera, National Spokesperson Bharatiya Janata Party is in the
12:49studio with me.
12:50I'd like to begin right now. If our political spokespersons allow, bring in Mr. O.P. Rawat, former EC, to
12:58come in.
12:58Each of you get two minutes time to put your point forward. Mr. Rawat, I just want to ask you
13:02a question because at one end, the election commission of India began with a press statement suggesting that everything was
13:11fine.
13:12There was no wrongdoing. But ever since then, there have been, and we've counted eight, one can call course corrections,
13:20explanations, some would say damage control by the election commission of India eight times in the last five weeks alone.
13:28How do you view it?
13:31Pity, I think I also agree with the common perception of these things, that these course corrections are only damage
13:41control exercise.
13:42I personally feel that what election commission should do to come out and open with a media conference to address
13:52all the people of this country as to what happened and why it happened.
13:59And how can election commission ensure that nothing wrong is going to happen now during this course correction?
14:06Because we keep on seeing reports that in Pili Bheed this happened, that so many votes have been transferred from
14:15one name to other name.
14:17All kinds of things are in the media. So there is a dire need from election commission to show they
14:26are together to the people through a media conference and address all these issues.
14:32There are so many things unanswered, like best Bengal appeals. What is the plan? How will these be disposed of?
14:39So all these issues must be addressed immediately and comprehensively.
14:44Well, you know, fair point, but you know, Mr. Rabat, but the sheer fact is the latest coming in where
14:50now the election commission has dropped the SIR para,
14:54which allegedly the election commissioner had called illegal, allegedly, because we really don't know what has gone down.
15:04Actually, Supreme Court sources have already confirmed that SIR was approved by all three.
15:10And therefore, we have to take it on the face value that yes, it was by all three.
15:19Remaining things are not clear yet. And they can be clarified only when all these three people sit together in
15:28front of the media and address the press and answer all doubts, clarify all doubts.
15:34Right. Mr. Rabat, one quick question. Even if one of the election commissioners had signed in on it, and as
15:40you said, the Supreme Court had said that all three were unanimously in agreement of SIR.
15:45But if that paragraph on the SIR, which was allegedly called illegal by one of the election commissioners, how does
15:52that make it all right?
15:53Because even if they signed in on something which was illegal, makes it illegal still.
16:00Yes, it will remain illegal because nobody in this country is above the law. So, if anything is illegal, it
16:08will remain illegal.
16:09Even if all three of us have signed, that makes only a proper decision. That's all.
16:15But it will remain illegal. Fair point. I want to bring in Radhika Khaira. Radhika Khaira, two minutes time.
16:20You know, I'm sorry I have to ask you the question because the Congress, because the BJP has been making
16:25a defense of the election commission.
16:27Ideally, these were questions that should have been addressed by the election commission itself.
16:30But if you go back, Radhika Khaira, for an election commission which seems to suggest that there was no malpractice,
16:38there was no wrongdoing,
16:40all decisions were unanimous in that one-sided press note in the beginning.
16:44Eight cost corrections, which pretty much addresses the points that were raised in that press report by the Indian Express.
16:54How do you view that?
16:56Namaskar and good evening.
16:57Preeti ji, the news story that you just broke before the debate started, that the opposition is going to meet
17:03for high tea at 5pm at Rahul Gandhi's residence,
17:06has just proved once again that Rahul Gandhi is anti-Hindus and anti-Sanathan.
17:15That is the best time to begin the puja.
17:18At 5pm, he wants all the leaders at a time when the entire country is going to be celebrating the
17:25festival of lights, the festival of brotherhood, the festival of prosperity.
17:29Diwali, Hindu is one of the biggest yohar hai.
17:32And that time he is holding this high tea at his place, when everyone has to be at home doing
17:37puja for dhante ras.
17:38Will he have the guts to do something like this during Ramzaan or Eid or Christmas or Easter or Lent?
17:45No, never.
17:46But here we have someone who is anti-Hindu and he has proved that by having Neha Bora has this
17:51poster girl.
17:52She talks filth about Hindus, she looks up to Bangladesh and thanks them for showing the way and having said
17:59that.
17:59Now your question here has been that is this damage control?
18:02No, of course not.
18:03This is responsive, dynamic institution, the election commission which is ensuring transparency.
18:09It is the duty of the election commission to install the sanity of the electoral rolls.
18:14So if they are bringing the changes as and when needed and as and when required, it is not course
18:20correction or damage control.
18:22It is just responding to what the scenario is.
18:25And the last time the SIR was done, the population of India was less than 100 crores.
18:29Today it's 150 crores.
18:33So obviously there will be a lot of challenges that the election commission will be facing.
18:37And if they are making changes to it to make sure that nobody is left behind, I think that should
18:43be welcomed instead of being questioned.
18:45And secondly, you were talking about one thing when you asked the former election commissioner.
18:49You said that there was an illegal payment document that was signed by the other two election commissioners.
18:55Ma'am, is there any paper that you have that you can show me here on the debate that has
18:59been signed by them or a proper proof?
19:02Let's not talk, have a debate on alleged things.
19:04No, no.
19:05Ma'am, your time is up.
19:06Your time is up.
19:07One second.
19:09What the allegation is, is the fact.
19:12Ma'am, your time is up.
19:12You can't hear you.
19:13And I'll come back to you.
19:14I will give you enough time to put your point forward.
19:17The allegation was that one of the election commissioners called one paragraph on the SIR illegal.
19:21Yet the Supreme Court has said that all three judges, all three election commissioners, the CEC plus two ECs, are
19:28unanimous on SIR.
19:30But if one election commissioner has called something illegal, despite signing off on it, despite signing off on it, if
19:39he has flagged it as illegal, it still remains illegal.
19:42Something that the former election commission on this panel agrees with.
19:46That's my limited submission, ma'am.
19:47And I will circle back to you.
19:49You'll have enough time to put your point forward.
19:51I want to get in Arshdeep Khadyal from the Congress.
19:53Your two-minute time starts now, Mr. Khadyal.
19:56The election commission is very clear that we are fixing, you know, SIR is a dynamic process.
20:02It's ongoing.
20:03We are fixing all the issues that were wrong and there is nothing wrong in calibrating and putting things out
20:10in public domain.
20:12Well, have we not gotten the gift that we very much expected?
20:17This is a gift to the Indians and eight charges, eight course corrections and eight biggest possible U-turns.
20:28Our request to the Bhatia Janta Party is at least now admit it.
20:33At least now say that there were wrongdoings that had taken place and this is nothing short of an admission.
20:40You are having to correct it.
20:42You are having to rectify it because it was wrong in the first place.
20:46Admit it at least now and stop dodging, diverting and deflecting.
20:50My request here is, how was it made possible?
20:54Many petitions were filed in the Honorable Supreme Court with regards to the suspension of Gyanesh Kumarji, the Chief Election
20:59Commissioner,
21:00with regards to the SIR and many other petitions.
21:03Notices were issued.
21:05Replies were sought.
21:07The proceedings moved forward.
21:09That is what led to it.
21:10The protests are what led to it because the country spoke in one voice that we will not take it.
21:16The Honorable Court had back in the day said, we have not approved any sort of modification to the form.
21:23Number two, the Election Commission, now that it has done away with the declaration,
21:29now that it has been removed from the form six, would the Bhatia Janta Party now admit that it was
21:35wrong to have put it there and the states that have been through it, the people that have been through
21:38it,
21:39the 13 crore of people that have been deleted. What of that wrong?
21:42Number two, my request to the Bhatia Janta Party is, if Indian Expressions report is what started everything.
21:49If it was wrong, why has no defamation notice been sent to them?
21:52Why has no defamation case been filed?
21:54Why did the sitting Supreme Court Judge Justice Buyan have to say that mass disenfranchisement of voters is unconstitutional and
22:01arbitrary?
22:01Why did former Chief Election Commissioners like Mr. Rawat and Qureshi have to say that any decision taken, not as
22:09for the majority, is illegal?
22:10And why did the entire country have to ask for the suspension of Ganesh Qumarji?
22:14Your time is up, sir. Your time is up.
22:16I just want to bring in the former Election Commissioner, Mr. Ropi Rawat, back into this conversation.
22:21Mr. Rawat, if you want to, you know, at the end of it, what is it that you would want
22:27right now?
22:28Because the turns are dramatic.
22:31If you look back on the eight times that the Election Commission is pretty much cost corrected.
22:37You can call it cost correction, but this was done in real time when elections were taking place, sir.
22:44Yeah, you are very correct on that.
22:46And I have already said that in a piecemeal manner, the Election Commission cannot wish away all these suspicions and
22:56doubts arising in the minds of people.
22:59So they must take everything in one go, have a comprehensive meeting of the Election Commission, all three together, and
23:09then all three together should address the media.
23:13Clarify on each and every suspicion and doubt. Comprehensively.
23:18Mr. Ropi Rawat, does it come now onto the credibility of the Election Commission to come out at least and
23:24take every question, dispel all doubts, allegations, apprehensions?
23:31Certainly, it is causing a lot of harm to the reputation of ECI and therefore they must take this bull
23:40by the horns.
23:42Okay, I want to just bring in Radhika Khaira back into this conversation. Radhika Khaira, where you said allegedly, I'll
23:47give you an example which has been confirmed by an RTI.
23:50Is the Election Commissioners writing to the Cabinet Secretary, the date, the time, everything of that has been detailed in
23:58an RTI on when both Election Commissioners wrote, Mr. Joshi and Mr. Sandhu wrote to the Cabinet Secretary.
24:05Someone they shouldn't be writing to at all. The contents of that email till now have not been made public,
24:13which in itself is a question.
24:16So, if they've not been made public, how are you quoting them and doing an entire show on that?
24:20Because, madam, nobody's doing an entire show on that. I've been doing an entire show on multiple issues.
24:24Let me speak. Let me speak. Don't speak over me.
24:26No, but then it's falsehood.
24:26No, it's not falsehood, Priti.
24:27We are not doing an entire show on what you say is in the context. If you're going to go
24:30in India today.
24:31The sheer fact that then, I'll hold your timer and you'll have enough time. I don't think you've understood my
24:35question, so let me rephrase that question.
24:36No, I've understood it very well.
24:37The sheer fact that an RTI has confirmed that the Cabinet Secretary of this country received emails by both Mr.
24:45Sandhu and Mr. Joshi, who are the two Election Commissioners.
24:48They've confirmed the time. They've confirmed the date.
24:51There are multiple RTIs that are waiting for what is the content of that. And this is just one aspect
24:57of multiple allegations, Ms. Kera.
24:59Okay, since you question my understanding your question, I'm going to question your understanding what was written in that RTI
25:06and what was revealed in the RTI.
25:08The RTI revealed that certain letters were written which were talking about what the Election Commission in their press note
25:15also stated that there was a certain individual who was on deputation who was not working properly and which is
25:21why there were apprehensions and he was called out.
25:23Ma'am, can I hold your prompt? You just said you don't know the contents. How is it that you
25:28know the contents then?
25:29Priti, you have to let me speak. You cannot speak over me.
25:29Ma'am, I'm holding your prompt and I'm allowed to rebutt.
25:32That's not fair, Priti. You are stopping me from breaking out the truth.
25:34That's not fair, Priti. You have enough time. I'm asking you a question.
25:37Let me complete. You have to let me complete because I can't hear clearly in the studio.
25:39Ms. Kera, you said you don't know the content. Therefore, I'm asking you how is it that you know the
25:44content.
25:44Ma'am, I know the content and I have read each and every word. If you have not read it,
25:46it is not my fault.
25:46Ma'am, how is it that you know the content?
25:48Because it is there, the RTI. Show me on what page of the RTI does it say that none of
25:53the three agreed with each other.
25:55Ma'am, the content of the mail has not been made public yet.
25:58See, again you are speaking over me, Priti. This is not a shouting match.
26:01Ma'am, it's not. Go ahead.
26:02Please behave like an anchor. Don't bully me here.
26:04Nobody is bullying you, ma'am. I'm allowed to ask questions.
26:07Maybe you are not used to being asked questions.
26:09Are you going to let me speak or not, Priti? I don't want to have a shouting match here. You
26:14have to let me speak.
26:15Make your talk, yes. You have to have the courtesy to let me speak.
26:19Madam, of course. You can speak once I'm done speaking.
26:22Make your talk, okay. Go ahead.
26:23Please, I would request you to tell your PCR to kindly show that on screen.
26:27The RTI that says that there was, that the three of them or one of them or two of them
26:33did not agree with each other.
26:35Please, before quoting something like this, and I'm sure India Today is a very well-respected network and so is
26:41the magazine.
26:41I mean, we've been watching India Today and believing everything that India Today Ashtag shows from the beginning.
26:45You are the one that we look up to for news.
26:47So, India Today should actually go very careful and not go by something like the Indian Express,
26:52which is a habitual offender for picking up stories and then apologizing.
26:56Remember, they had said there's a military coup during the Congress period.
27:00And then the Congress party and their former defense minister, Mr. A.K. Anthony came on record and did a
27:06press conference, which you also cut, and said that there is nothing like that.
27:09And there have been many instances. They have apologized to many people also and the government also at multiple levels.
27:16So, I'm sure that India Today is not going to vouch for the story of the Indian Express.
27:20Having said that, again and again, we are having a discussion.
27:24The court has not said that the edition was illegal. They have asked. They have said that we did not
27:29give permission.
27:30Now, that is for the election commission to answer. The election commission has put in its papers.
27:34And if the opposition was actually, as they say, as they are responsible, they should have waited for the court
27:43proceedings to go on before hitting the streets.
27:45Before Irfan Ansari, the jharkhand minister of the Congress, the blue-eyed buyer of Rahul Gandhi, came on record today
27:52to say that they are going to drag the election commission on the road.
27:55And that 40 lakh youth are waiting for Rahul Gandhi to come and fight the question again.
28:02I spoke about the RTI, which are now in public domain, which reveal the date and time separately that both
28:11election commissioners wrote to cabinet secretary.
28:14Something that was reflected in that newspaper report. The contents of that have not been made public.
28:21But the sheer fact that election commission is writing to the cabinet secretary is in effect itself questionable because the
28:30election commission reports to the president.
28:32That's why my minimal submission. I want to bring in final comments. Can I get in the Congress spokesperson?
28:40Thank you, Priti. Thank you for the question. Well, number one, the Bhati Jantar Party at least now should admit
28:47that they were wrong about it all, that they were lying, they were spreading propaganda.
28:52They were, you know, all the allegations that they have never, that you are spreading anarchy through protests. They denotified
28:58Jantar Mantar. Our protests have been vindicated. Our petitions have been vindicated.
29:04And since then, the ladaai that we have started, the mohem that we have started, has been vindicated. And my
29:10request to the Bhati Jantar Party is, is this the reason as to why Mr. Modi is shying away from
29:14a debate? Is that the reason as to why Mr. Modi is shying away from a debate?
29:27Why not? Why not? That's not how the Indian parliamentary democracy works. No, it doesn't work like that.
29:31If I may, please, we happen to be living in the world's largest democracy. There should be no problem in
29:37having a debate between the prime minister and the leader of opposition.
29:39You know, allow me to tell you, Mr. Khadiyal, Mr. Khadiyal, one second. You know, the sheer fact, your time
29:47has been held. The Bhati Jantar Party asked for a public debate where Dr. Manmohan Singh was concerned.
29:54Mr. Adwani had asked for a public debate, not once, twice. Did you agree? No. Why should the BJP agree?
30:00Just because he wants to have a public debate, agree on that. Why?
30:05And the Bhati Jantar Party had talked about chappan-inch ki chati. The Bhati Jantar Party had talked about lalang.
30:12Where is the 56-inch chest is what we want to know.
30:14Why are you shying away from a debate? And what do they say? We'll have a discussion in the parliament,
30:18in the very parliament, where we do not get equal opportunities, where we do not get equal amount of time.
30:24If we get limited time, in that also our mic gets muted, our statements get expunged, we get discriminated against.
30:30So Mr. Modi does not want to have a two-way communication because he's not used to it.
30:3412 long years, not a single press conference. He's aware of the fact that what happened in the interview between
30:40him and Mr. Karan Thapar might repeat again.
30:43There might be a deja vu. That's why he does not want to have this debate with Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
30:48Number two, my request to the Bhati Jantar Party is last 20 years. See, all the objections that had been
30:53raised, all the objections.
30:54See, everything has been proven point by point. The election commissioners had given a complaint to the cabinet secretary as
31:02per the Indian Express's report.
31:03And if Indian Express's report was wrong, the Bhati Jantar Party would have acted against it. There would have been
31:07a case. There is no none.
31:09Number two, my second request is the objections that were raised with regards to voter deletion, with regards to Form
31:156, that there cannot be a change in the Form 6 without a legal amendment being done.
31:21Everything has been proven.
31:22So your time is up. That's all the time we have for now. We are running gravely short of time.
31:26But I appreciate all our guests for, you know, tuning in and thank you there for joining us.
31:34I want to quickly cut across to our other debate that we are tracking very closely because something rather big
31:39in terms of policy has happened in the last 24 hours.
31:42The Modi government has revamped the Agni Pat scheme, offering 75% of recruits who were earlier set to exit
31:49after four years an extended engagement and an opportunity of two years and then a shot at regular permanent enrollment.
31:59The opposition sees an electoral calculation, we'll explain why later, linking the timing to crucial assembly elections in UP, Punjab,
32:07Uttarakhand.
32:07So is this a long-awaited military cost correction or a political reset aimed at addressing years of youth discontent?
32:16Here's more.
32:38I do not.
32:42He has had a burden on it. He has had a burden on it. He has had a burden on
32:47it. He has had a burden on it.
32:51Look at Agni Veer, we have had a burden on it. We have had a burden on it.
32:56Because it is not only the burden of our citizens, it is only the burden of our country.
33:27I want to cut across to our panelists this evening, Sandeep Poonith Han, senior journalist who tracks the armed forces
33:33very closely, is with me.
33:34As well as Wing Commander Anuma Acharya, National Spokesperson Congress Radhika Khera, National Spokesperson Bharatiya Janata Party continues to be
33:42with us.
33:43I want to cut across to Sandeep and getting him in for a quick comment.
33:47Sandeep, you know, the whole premise of Agni Veer was that we don't quite need the kind of manpower.
33:53There seems to be now a cost correction. Is it an understanding that we do need the boots on ground?
34:00Absolutely, Preeti. You know, when the Agni Veer scheme, it has its origins. It's been debated for over a decade.
34:08Around the time, more than a decade ago, when the pension bill had exceeded the salary bill.
34:12And that is when there were a lot of concerns that were raised. And there were, you know, talk about
34:18cutting back on manpower.
34:20The Indian army is something like 1.3 million strong. There was talk of bringing it down to about a
34:26million strong, in line with what many other armies across the world had been doing, including China, the Russian Federation,
34:33all of that.
34:34But bear in mind that this was almost a decade ago. The Agni Pat scheme was introduced a few years
34:40back, 2022, at a time when we had just started to see the effects of a border standoff with China.
34:47Now, in the last four years, that border standoff has eased. You're not facing off at those, you know, points
34:56of friction. You've stepped back. But your troops are still in the theatre.
34:59Now, that means that you need a large number of troops all along the LAC. We have two of the
35:04longest disputed boundaries in the world.
35:07Something like 4,000 kilometres with China, 700 kilometres with Pakistan, to the west and to the north.
35:13So, there is a need in the last couple of years, the need has been felt, that you would need
35:17a larger number of troops to rotate.
35:20You can't, you know, permanently keep troops forward deployed. You need to bring them down to peace stations.
35:26So, this matrix, when you're looking at west and to the north, is possibly one of the reasons that the
35:31government has decided to extend the scheme and essentially dilute it.
35:36So, the original charter of the Agni Pat was meant to be a cost saving in terms of pension. It
35:41would reduce the size of the armed forces.
35:43But I think there's been a rethink on that. It's not a very unique situation, Preeti. It's happened in the
35:48past.
35:49Before the Kargil war, if you remember, in 1998, the Indian army was actually talking about downsizing.
35:55They had suppressed a number of vacancies. But after the Kargil war, those vacancies were all quickly filled up.
36:01The army bounced back to strength. So, this is, it's an ongoing process. I mean, you know, as long as
36:06you're going to have disputed boundaries,
36:08the distance, distances involved, which actually have to be manned by boots on the ground, as you mentioned, you will
36:15have such schemes coming and going, Preeti.
36:18Well, you know, thank you, Sandeep, for joining us and giving us, you know, a wider perspective on what is
36:25turning into a political debate on ground.
36:27But thank you, Sandeep. And I will, you know, take the question to Wing Commander Acharya.
36:32Wing Commander Acharya, the Congress would have us believe that this is all in the backdrop of upcoming elections in
36:38Uttar Pradesh.
36:39Uttar Pradesh is where the state, where the maximum number of recruitments take place, especially even with Agni Veer.
36:47And you have elections coming in, about 24,000. First batch is, was going to come out in December. Now
36:55they've been given two years employment.
36:57So the disquiet amongst the youth, at least, will be quelled a little. But you just heard, you know, the
37:03army and the armed forces thought that they need boots on ground.
37:06So why the politics?
37:08So good evening to you. And in this debate, I am appearing as, of course, I'm a Congress national spokesperson.
37:15But at the same time, I am an officer, veteran from the armed forces, wherein I served for 24 years.
37:21We knew from the beginning that this scheme is not going to hold any ground because they have not ever
37:28well researched about it.
37:31Just a book called Startup Nation, which was written by an Israeli and an American based on the ground that
37:39Israeli companies are listed in Nasdaq.
37:42Therefore, they applied a model of 70 lakh people to a country of 140 crore people.
37:51And then this scheme was such an ad hoc scheme.
37:55I am so sure that this is what a BJP government has also realized.
38:01Now they are kind of rolling back because it is after two years of extension.
38:07They are going to give option to all of them, all the 75 percent that whether you like to continue
38:14or not.
38:14So far, not even a single BJP person, they can derail the debate, but they have not been able to
38:20reply to me that what was the shortcoming of the old recruitment rally scheme?
38:26The BJP government has actually cheated on some youth who are waiting for their final call letter, if you remember,
38:34during 2020 to 2021.
38:37And they have instead of giving them a call letter for which they had already qualified the recruitment rally.
38:43Instead, they have come out with this scheme, which was not at all researched.
38:47They have treated armed forces as a laboratory.
38:50Now, with this extension, they are going to create three segments within the armed forces, which is actually alarming.
38:58The first segment, those permanent people who are already there, because they are going to continue with these people for
39:04about next 12 to 15 years.
39:07The other one is 25 percent, who will be given permanent entry in November 26th.
39:17And the third category will be the 75 percent.
39:21Two years later, they will be junior to this 25 percent.
39:24They were recruited together.
39:26People do not understand.
39:27You can debate it like any other English debate.
39:30But for me, it is my way of life and I understand how much it affects the morale of those
39:35people.
39:36Within the armed forces, you are creating movements.
39:39And further, because I saw none of the Hindi channel debates.
39:45Every debate is being organized on English channels only.
39:48So, let me just take this back down.
39:51Allow me to bring in Radhika Khaira into this conversation.
39:53You know, Wing Commander Acharya, I want to bring in Radhika Khaira.
39:56Radhika Khaira, two ways to look at it.
39:58Yes, you need boots on ground.
40:00And in that way, heartening that at least our soldiers are now going to get accommodated in the prime of
40:06their youth.
40:07The second is, this is all a political move.
40:10You've got elections coming up.
40:11You need to quell the disquiet amongst the youth.
40:13So, give them an extension for two years and you'll see after that.
40:16Let's call out the Congress's bluff with the last line that the Congress spokesperson spoke.
40:21We'll start with that.
40:22She said, no Hindi channel did not do it.
40:23So, when it was a press conference, it was the whole press conference of your Hindi channel today.
40:28Leave the rest of it.
40:29There was also debate.
40:30I don't know where the channels of Congress's spokespersons are.
40:34Maybe China or Bangladesh, wherever they look up to.
40:36Having said that.
40:37But Preeti, you have to stop looking at national security, military readiness,
40:41through the dirty, distorted lens of electoral politics.
40:44Now, the Congress on the opposition wants that there should be no progressive reform,
40:50no administrative review, and no strategic enhancement in the military.
40:54Which is why, if you remember, that during the UPA rule, it is on record,
40:59and their defense minister, A.K. Anthony, has said it on record,
41:03that there were no bulletproof jackets available, no boots, no technology advancement,
41:08and our armed forces were literally begging for the basics.
41:12You come from a military background, you must be knowing about it much more than I do.
41:16You have a family of people who have served our country, which is why we slept well in our homes.
41:22But having said that, the Congress has to stop resorting to cheap politics.
41:25When this entire Agnipat scheme had come, from day one, whether it was our ministry,
41:30or whether it was our armed forces, the Air Force, Navy, or the Army,
41:35everyone said that this is not, you know, this is something which is dynamic,
41:39and will continue to evolve.
41:41And which is what is happening.
41:43Times change, our situations at the border change.
41:45So, we have to evolve, and we have to ensure that our military is on, you know,
41:51as good as other countries, and we are able to handle things.
41:55So, what is the problem that the Congress has?
41:57Sometimes you don't give a bulletproof jacket,
42:00sometimes you don't give guns,
42:02sometimes you don't want to go ahead and go ahead,
42:04and the government, which is actually ensuring the safety of our country,
42:09ensuring our military is number one in the world.
42:12All right.
42:13That's all the time that we have for now, and I apologize.
42:16He has spoken something which was a WhatsApp narrative.
42:19So, do not take that narrative.
42:21Ma'am, I need to close the debate.
42:22Blah, blah, blah.
42:23Because the Congress, Congress has purchased everything.
42:26He's lying.
42:27I'm a logistics officer.
42:28This is a panic and misinformation.
42:29Ma'am, I need to close the debate.
42:30Congress wants to spread.
42:31Even at a military street.
42:32Okay, I just, okay.
42:33Nobody can hear anything.
42:34That's it.
42:34That's all the time that we have for now.
42:37One thing is great, because if there was an extension of the Agni Veer,
42:41it's fabulous news, especially for those who want to
42:44and look forward to serving the nation.
42:46There cannot be better news there.
42:48There will be politics, that aside.
42:50But in terms of if there is a policy rethink on Agni Veer,
42:54fabulous news.