00:00Let's just get going with this.
00:01So I did not think Shador Sanders played terribly.
00:05I realized how low a bar I have for everybody in the quarterback room
00:08for the Cleveland Browns, and that's not a shot.
00:10It's the truth.
00:12I thought that he played well down the stretch.
00:15I felt that he had a lot of similarities in his game yesterday
00:19to what we've seen with Deshaun Watson.
00:21I just think we saw a younger version in so many ways to Deshaun Watson.
00:25It's like, hey, try to take care of the football.
00:26Try not turn it over.
00:27Let's see if we can end all these drives in a kick of some sort,
00:30whether it be a punt or whether it be a field goal,
00:32and if we can score a touchdown, let's score a touchdown.
00:35I thought Todd Munkin handled the offense pretty well yesterday.
00:39I'd like to say they would have won the game if Deshaun Watson was quarterback.
00:43That's possible, but there's been so many games where Deshaun Watson's numbers
00:46have been lackluster through the first three quarters.
00:50All that being said, I did not think Shador was bad.
00:53I didn't think Shador was overwhelmingly great.
00:55I've said the same sentences about Deshaun Watson, and you're still 5-4.
00:59You're still trying to win football games.
01:01I would go back to Deshaun Watson to start against the Houston Texans next week.
01:052-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
01:07I'll get it out of the way now.
01:08I thought that was obvious.
01:11I don't think it is.
01:11Especially given just the operational issues that you saw yesterday.
01:18I mean, and we'll get to the penalties across the board.
01:22I thought in the first half, I thought there was a point where we jumped off sides twice,
01:27and I was like, did they just, was there a glitch?
01:30Did I just see the exact same thing happen?
01:32Because the camera work was the same.
01:34It was just a different player.
01:35No, because at first it was Sam Williams, and then Sam Williams came off, and Jared
01:40Verse came on, and I swear to God, I think they were just lined up in the same spot, and
01:43then Jared did it.
01:44Same thing.
01:45And then he was off.
01:45I gotta go back and watch.
01:46Then he got benched.
01:47Anyway, so I thought it was pretty obvious that, hey, I was so thrilled to see Shador,
01:56you know, actually get a legit opportunity, and then finally take advantage of it, because
02:02the way the game was going, I mean, I kid you not, they showed Dylan Gabriel at one
02:07point, and I'm like, is there a chance they put Dylan Gabriel in the game?
02:11Because it was just so bad.
02:13And fortunately...
02:14I didn't think there was a chance.
02:15I think there was some confusion on the broadcasts about Dylan Gabriel, but I didn't think that
02:22there was a chance that Dylan Gabriel would go in there.
02:23I just wondered, Todd looks so mad at Shador on like eight different occasions, and way more
02:28mad than I've ever seen him at Deshaun, that I was like, oh, he either Shador is not doing
02:35what he's being asked, he's checking into the wrong things, just none of it is going
02:39right.
02:40And then, of course, the mess-ups, one was definitely on Judkins, the other we don't
02:44know.
02:45I was about to say, that one was...
02:46Yeah, so, but there was a multitude of those.
02:48And so Munkin looked like he was having a seizure, and it was directed right at Shador
02:54so many times, and I'm like, is he going to bench Shador, or is he just going to say
02:57you weren't ready to do any of what I needed you to do?
02:59And then, the heavens opened.
03:02Like, all of a sudden, you know, the mossing that we saw from Denzel Boston, the KC play,
03:10and then that throw to Jerry Judy.
03:13He took such a shot.
03:15Yeah, he did.
03:16When he takes these shots, I said the same thing last year, he gets up.
03:19I don't know how, because he doesn't really have much muscle on his body.
03:23He knows how to, he just absorbs those hits.
03:25He's just, boy, he doesn't need to be, again, like Brady Quinn was muscle-bound.
03:28I know Brady Quinn's kind of a friend of the station and show, but Brady Quinn had a lot
03:31of serious injuries over his time, and he'll always say the hand injury is what really
03:35changed things, because that was the same thing Russell Wilson had, and Russell Wilson
03:38was never the same after the same injury.
03:39He just doesn't look like a guy that would be a great athlete who'd be able to take hits
03:43and then be able to pop right up, but he does.
03:45And that throw to Judy on third down, I think it was third and seven.
03:50Holy cow.
03:50Like, I was stunned.
03:51I was stunned he got it there.
03:53I was stunned Judy, like, boxed the guy out and caught it, and it was just such, and the
03:58crowd was getting loud.
03:59It was awesome.
04:00It was so awesome.
04:01And then, obviously, the Harold Fannin's highlight reel, I mean, he's only played a year and a
04:06half, and his highlight reel is as good as 95% of tight ends.
04:10I mean, David Njoku, are you kidding me?
04:11Like, his highlight reel blows Njoku out of the water.
04:14Or Njoku had, like, the tight end screen, and then occasionally three times a year in
04:20the back of the end zone, and that was it.
04:22This Harold Fannin, I mean, the stuff he is doing, I mean, that's just kind of like a
04:26check down that he then scores on, takes it to the house.
04:29It's nice to have game breakers.
04:31For so many years, we just have not had game breakers.
04:34And now we have them.
04:35So that was so much fun to see.
04:37And so this was a game I was, Kenny, I hated it.
04:40I was openly making fun of everybody on the Browns and how that game was going for three
04:44plus quarters, because it was so ugly.
04:47And then Shador made it fun.
04:48He made it watchable.
04:50Kind of like the Tennessee game last year, really.
04:53So, you know, but with all that said, I'd be stunned if Todd Munkin would, at this stage,
05:01with the team above .500 and desperately needing a game against Houston.
05:05And did you see what Houston's defense did?
05:07To Justin Herbert yesterday?
05:09I did not yet.
05:09How many sacks?
05:10Really?
05:11Oh, yeah.
05:12I'm going to have to put that on right now.
05:13Sorry.
05:14So they finally got to the quarterback like they were expected to.
05:17So, no.
05:18I was shocked to see, not the grift.
05:21There's always going to be grifters who just, they want to, and it's coming for me,
05:25want to ride the Shador SEO train, right?
05:29You know, have Shador pay for their vacations and everything.
05:32Because if you mention him, it goes nuts.
05:34And I saw people, and I'm sorry.
05:37There are people that I respect and people that I've done shows with, and they're like,
05:42that's it.
05:42Shador's the starting quarterback the rest of the year.
05:44I go, there's zero chance that he is starting against Houston.
05:47No, but he can, if Deshaun Watson were to come back and play poorly,
05:52I don't think that Shador should be gone after what I saw yesterday.
05:57I don't.
05:58Now, I'm not in the building.
05:59I hope that everybody handles this the right way, because these things tend to get pretty
06:03emotional, and the fans will probably get emotional over this.
06:06But I just, I watched, I just think I watched a younger version this year of Deshaun Watson.
06:13And I've sat here and I've said that Deshaun Watson has played relatively effective football
06:17and has not given me a reason to sit him throughout this year.
06:22And I thought Shador Sanders did the same thing.
06:24And the only reason I would go back to Deshaun Watson is because he's the guy who's the veteran
06:28that you've won the games with.
06:29And so I was given no reason yesterday to think that Shador Sanders is garbage, to think that
06:36he doesn't take it the right way.
06:38And I would look still going, okay, I have respect for you, and I'm still going to go
06:43right back to the other guy who I have respect for here when it comes to being a quarterback
06:48here.
06:49There's no reason for me to give up on Shador Sanders.
06:51If the season falls apart and the bottom falls out, I'll go to Shador.
06:56We'll see more on that.
06:57But, you know, I'm looking at the post-game stuff and listening to the post-game stuff
07:02and I hear the messaging.
07:03And, you know, for Watson, it's because he's a veteran.
07:05It's we got to win.
07:06We got to win the game.
07:07We either did enough to win the game or I did enough to win the game or I didn't do
07:10enough
07:10to win the game and this, that, and the other is my fault.
07:13When it comes to Shador, it's still about growth as a quarterback and still big long-term
07:18stuff as a QB as opposed to winning the game.
07:20And you're still in a position where you got to go out there and win.
07:23You're still in a playoff mode.
07:24As much as it seems unlikely to a lot of fans this morning, you're still five and four.
07:29And while I'm very concerned, I was very concerned going into the game.
07:34I'm very concerned about the possibilities of the playoffs.
07:36Maybe it's just, maybe it's just the natural order of things taking over.
07:40It was a much hotter start than any of us anticipated.
07:44Regardless, it's a long answer, but I'm going to go back to Deshaun Watson and I'm going
07:49to keep Shador Sanders on this football team.
07:50I'm not going to go crazy.
07:52So I guess we're going to have to do the Carson Ryan shuffle all over again this coming week
07:57to be able to figure out how we're going to manipulate the roster and be able to keep
08:00four guys there and all the other good stuff.
08:02So 2-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
08:05I'm disappointed they lost.
08:06It was an overtime game.
08:09Maybe I could try to sit here and make a big argument that Deshaun Watson would have
08:12won the game just based on experience or anything like that, but I've seen so many
08:17games where Deshaun Watson has gone out there and played non-special football, I guess, through
08:28the first three quarters and then things start to open up in the fourth quarter.
08:32And I don't think he played heroically in the fourth quarter.
08:35I don't think Shador played heroically.
08:37Well, there was that one big pass to Jerry Judy that was pretty incredible, but I didn't
08:42think that either one gave me any reason to be down on him other than I guess we're not
08:49talking about these guys as the future of the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns.
08:53Okay.
08:53I don't think anybody was surprised by that.
08:56Well, not everybody agrees with that.
08:57There's a pretty familiar name in Northeast Ohio.
09:02Somebody who's on CBS that thinks he is the future.
09:05Who?
09:05Bill Cowher.
09:07Yeah, he said it yesterday on the postgame.
09:09I guess I respect him, but I would disagree at this moment.
09:14So, do we want to play Bill Cowher?
09:16Okay, here's Bill Cowher.
09:17He lives in Strongsville.
09:18The NFL on CBS.
09:19Well, he has a whole neighborhood in Strongsville that he lives in.
09:22He goes house to house to house.
09:24Here's Bill Cowher, NFL on CBS.
09:26Hit it.
09:26Shador Sanders should be the starter for this football team.
09:28He's going to be the future.
09:30And I think what he showed today, his resiliency, continuing to come back.
09:33He made great decisions.
09:34He extended plays.
09:35Loved the way he played.
09:36Now we move forward with Shador Sanders.
09:56That person's opportunity.
09:57And I just think from right now, what I saw from Shador Sanders, I would move forward because he is
10:02more, he's the future of your football team.
10:04That's an interesting conversation by Bill Cowher.
10:07I just don't, I don't see with either guy right now.
10:10I don't.
10:11And I do think that probably if the season continues to go the way it goes, that we'll see more
10:16Shador Sanders, naturally.
10:19But I'm still, my team's still five and four.
10:21So, it's not like, maybe I'm reading it wrong.
10:25And maybe I see my phone lighting up, so I'm sure some people are upset I'm not screaming and yelling
10:29and hammering on Todd and hammering on Shador or hammering on everybody.
10:33But I'm disappointed that they lost.
10:35I'm certainly disappointed that they lost.
10:37But I got to figure out a way to go beat Houston next week at home.
10:42All right?
10:43We get back home.
10:44We got a bye week.
10:45And again, I'm just playing it out going, hey, we got to focus on the future.
10:49I can't sit here and dwell on the past.
10:50There will be time.
10:51If the bottom falls out, things go to hell.
10:53Because I didn't think Todd Munkin did a bad job.
10:55I didn't think Shador Sanders did a horrific job.
10:58I think there was definitely some things that happened with inexperience in that ballgame.
11:02Again, the running into Austin Barber, which way was that supposed to be?
11:06Clearly, now, I didn't know at the beginning.
11:08I assumed it was going to be on the guy who hadn't played all year and not Quinshawn Junkins.
11:12Then I saw Todd Munkin going after Quinshawn Junkins.
11:14I went, well, I'm wrong.
11:16Let me scratch that out.
11:17And right, it was Quinshawn Junkins' fault.
11:19I didn't see anything overwhelming where it was like, hey, we won 30-6.
11:24And this guy was just amazing.
11:25We got to go with the hot hand here.
11:27And congratulations for your little time here, Deshaun.
11:30But that's it.
11:31I'd go back to the starter.
11:32I'd go back to the veteran.
11:34But that doesn't mean, and I hope it won't be this way because I'm sure people freak out anyway.
11:40But it doesn't mean that I'm kicking Shador Sanders off the football team.
11:44Okay?
11:45It's that simple.
11:46So they've gone with four QBs.
11:48I guess we'll stay with four QBs.
11:50Do you think that performance was good enough for any other team around the league with all the injuries,
11:54all the quarterback injuries to trade for him?
11:56But if I thought that he was good enough to help my team win football games, why would I trade
12:00him right now?
12:01What am I going to get back in return?
12:03It's exactly what you just said the previous statement, though.
12:05You said he's probably not in the future of the Browns.
12:08So if that's the case, wouldn't they trade him?
12:10Well, the way he played yesterday, he probably is in the same way with Deshaun Watson.
12:13He's not.
12:14But I'm still in a situation.
12:17I'm five and four.
12:18So if I didn't think that he got in the way of me winning football games.
12:22If somebody came calling and had, like, offered a fourth-round pick, they'd trade him, right?
12:25Who's calling and offering a fourth-round pick?
12:27I don't think anybody.
12:28Okay, so why are we giving crazy scenarios here?
12:31Because I'm saying that.
12:33Yeah, everybody's got a price, but yeah.
12:36Yeah, you, Ken Carman, said he's probably not in the future of the Browns.
12:39So if somebody called, yeah.
12:40But no one's calling with a fourth-round pick.
12:42Would they not hesitate, though, if somebody did call?
12:44No, I guess I would move off from him for a fourth-round pick.
12:47But no one's giving up a fourth-round pick.
12:49I took him in the fifth round.
12:51I guess you could try to get equal value back if you wanted to.
12:54But no one's calling up for a fourth-round pick for Shador Sanders or anybody in your quarterback room right
13:00now.
13:00Well, that's what I'm wondering.
13:01They are what they are.
13:02Bill Cowher, who's been around the league a whole long time, probably can pick up the phone and call a
13:07lot of people.
13:07He's saying he's a future quarterback in the NFL.
13:10He just thinks it's for the Browns.
13:11So I found that very interesting.
13:15And again, I respect his opinion.
13:17I just, I guess I don't see it.
13:19He's a much better football guy than I'd ever be.
13:22So I guess I'll just sit here in my wrongness then because I just, I flatly disagree.
13:262-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
13:29So I'm pretty measured this morning.
13:31I'm not flying off the handle this morning.
13:33Lima doesn't sound like he's flying off the handle.
13:35You would go back to Deshaun?
13:36I would go back to Deshaun.
13:382-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
13:40Would you stick with Shador or would you be going back to Deshaun Watson?
13:44We'll hopefully find out more of that in this afternoon.
13:47But I want to know what you would do if you were Todd Munkin and you were the head coach
13:51of the Cleveland Browns.
13:51As we get ready, we got to go over this loss.
13:54But we do have to get ready for the Houston Texans coming up on Sunday.
13:57Ken Carman, Anthony Lima, take us with you to work on the free Odyssey app.
Comments