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Mark Schlereth, Audacy NFL Insider, joins Willard and Dibs to talks about the 49ers trading for Keenan Allen and the other big moves from around the NFL.
Transcript
00:00But hey, Stink, what's going on today?
00:02Not a whole lot, man.
00:04Just prepping this week's game and just kind of grinding through tape.
00:09That's it.
00:09Yeah.
00:10Who you got this week, by the way?
00:12I've got Jacksonville at Tennessee this weekend.
00:17Jacksonville, obviously, pushing all their cards
00:20or pushing all their chips into the middle with what they did defensively.
00:23So let's start with that.
00:25Let's talk trade deadline.
00:26What do you give the Niners for giving up a four and a six
00:30for DeForest Buckner and Keenan Allen?
00:32What do you think, and did they do enough?
00:34Yeah, I think it's huge.
00:36Like, Keenan Allen can't run, but Keenan Allen never could run.
00:39Like, that's not his forte.
00:42Like, I've always thought he's a great route runner.
00:45He's physical.
00:47And he is so, to me, such a Kyle Shanahan wide receiver, right?
00:53I mean, he's one of those few guys where there's rare birds
00:57that I always thought back in his Chargers days
01:00that he was the tone setter of the whole offense.
01:03Like, that dude was the guy who'd mix it up, who'd get nasty blocks.
01:09Almost, oh, gosh, who was the cat?
01:11I love this player for you guys even a year ago
01:14that was always fighting and getting kicked out of game.
01:16Juwan Jennings?
01:17Juwan Jennings.
01:18Yeah, Juwan Jennings.
01:19He was like Juwan Jennings before Juwan Jennings was Juwan Jennings,
01:22except he was, you know, more prolific in the passing game.
01:25A really good route runner.
01:28Just got some nastiness to him.
01:30So he's a guy that I really like, and I really liked, you know,
01:33their getting DeForest Buckner as well.
01:36Just I thought that was great.
01:38Not only starting piece, but helped their whole rotation in general.
01:41So I thought two big moves for them.
01:44And, yeah, I think it's really good,
01:46especially once they start getting guys back healthy,
01:50especially on the receiving core.
01:52And you look at Keenan Allen, and you were just,
01:54I don't think you were joking that he can't run,
01:56but literally when you look at what sorts of routes does he run,
02:00is it short routes, intermediate?
02:02What is his strength still as a route runner?
02:05Well, his strength as a route runner is setting you up
02:08and getting himself, you know, getting separation.
02:12But he's one of those guys that does the dirty work stuff.
02:15He runs the in-cutting routes.
02:16He runs all the stuff underneath, the shallow crosses, the low crosses.
02:20You know, he catches the ball in traffic.
02:23And so, you know, the whole can't run thing, I mean, he's never been,
02:29like that dude has never been a, you know, a top flight kind of speed guy.
02:34He's just always been able to get open.
02:36And kind of like, almost like Travis Kelsey can always just get open,
02:40even though he doesn't run like he used to run,
02:42he still finds a way to get himself open.
02:45And that's just being really good route runner, really good setting guys up,
02:50really good being physical, using your body to get away from guys
02:53without getting called for pass interference for OPI.
02:56So those are his strengths.
02:58And doing that in the middle of the football field work,
03:01you know, that dirty work stuff,
03:02that's where he has thrived over the years.
03:06Hanging with Stink, Mark Slareth with us here every single Tuesday
03:08on Withered and Dibs.
03:09Stink, I don't know if you got a chance to grind any tape on this yet,
03:12but I think that some fans were expecting,
03:16hoping for a little more pass rush help on the edge.
03:21The Niners did not make a move.
03:22Nick Bosa is back.
03:24But they've gone two weeks in a row without any sacks.
03:27What do you think about the defensive line group as a whole
03:32and how they're performing right now?
03:34Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's good.
03:36I haven't, like, I haven't really got deep into the Niners D-line and the rotation.
03:43Obviously, if Nick Bosa is back and can be healthy,
03:46that solves a multitude of sins, you know,
03:49because that dude is going to be one of those guys
03:51that you're going to have to find a way to get multiple players over there
03:55at him on passing situations,
03:58which frees everybody else up to get one-on-one situations,
04:01as you guys know.
04:02So that part is probably, you know,
04:05was probably the big plan without having to give away a first-round choice.
04:09I mean, and the other thing is, let's face it,
04:12like, I don't know how many edge rushers moved.
04:15A bunch of interior guys moved,
04:17but I don't know how many edge rushers moved.
04:20Zero.
04:22What's that, zero?
04:23Zero.
04:23Absolute zero.
04:24Ed Bucati was a guy that I think out of, where was he?
04:31I think he was, was he in Atlanta?
04:34And he used to be in Atlanta.
04:36Anyhow, the Bengals traded for him
04:38and then found out they were going to lose a compensatory pick,
04:41and they decided to nix the trade.
04:44They were like, oh, wait a minute.
04:45We'd rather have the third rounder or whatever it is for losing, you know,
04:49for losing.
04:50Trey Hendrickson.
04:51Oh, gosh.
04:52Yeah, Trey Hendrickson.
04:53Yep.
04:54Yeah.
04:54Yeah.
04:55So I just thought that was funny.
04:57But other than that, there's no edge guys that moved.
04:59Yeah.
05:00And the 49ers, if they can get Mikel Williams right,
05:02and certainly Nick Bosa, as you were mentioning before,
05:05if he can return to form, you probably don't have that great need.
05:08When you look at the Niners as a team, complimentary football,
05:12is their offense so electric that the defense becomes just kind of more incumbent
05:17to be bend but don't break?
05:20Yeah.
05:21I mean, I think that what ends up happening to you is what you want to be able to do
05:26with a defense like that.
05:28And they're still, I mean, they're still a dynamic defense.
05:31Anytime you have Fred Warner, Mustafa, you know, some of the guys they have,
05:36I just think they're a team that, you know, is going to be able to create and,
05:40you know, be physical and do all those things.
05:42But when your offense is really humming and you're doing a great job with that
05:47stuff, man, it gives you more opportunity to rush the passer.
05:50It gives you more opportunity to create, you know,
05:53create turnovers and do all that stuff.
05:55Because obviously if you're playing with the lead,
05:59teams eventually become very one-dimensional and you've got so much speed
06:03and so much, you know, ability to have depth in your drops and do all those
06:08things that you can create some of those opportunities for your defense.
06:11So you just hope that this offense gets healthy.
06:15You hope that Mike Evans comes back and the Achilles thing is calmed down
06:19and he can play the rest of the year.
06:20The ribs are good.
06:21You hope you get stribbling back.
06:23You know, you hope you get Debo back soon with the hamstring.
06:27And then this offense really takes off.
06:29And that just makes teams automatically, you know,
06:32come second quarter or whatever, one-dimensional.
06:35And then you can just kind of unleash on the defensive side of the ball.
06:38Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company.
06:42They're one of America's largest financial services companies, too.
06:45Nationwide is on your side.
06:47Willard and Dibbs and we're hanging with Stink, Mark Schlereth,
06:49as we do every single Tuesday.
06:51Mark, I would love to get just your general thoughts on,
06:56especially with these acquisitions and the Keenan Allen one in particular.
07:00It's Keenan Allen and Mike Evans and Demarcus Robinson and Debo Samuel
07:06and Christian McCaffrey and Kyle Juszczyk and George Kittle.
07:09Like, people are going to start wearing old guys' rule hots to Niners games.
07:14Yeah.
07:15So this idea that can they all be ready for the holidays
07:20and to go on a run together, how realistic is this to you?
07:25No, I think it's realistic.
07:28I mean, you might have a couple of games here and there where a guy can't play.
07:34But do I think, like, one, those guys are veteran players.
07:37They know how to manage their body for the most part.
07:42And they've got toughness to them.
07:44Those guys have been around the dial a time or two.
07:47You know, they've got some toughness to them.
07:50They'll play hurt.
07:51They'll go out there, and when the season starts to wind down
07:56and you start playing, you're starting to, you know, fight for playoff position
08:00and you've got playoff games, those are the kind of guys that answer the bell.
08:05So I look at all that, man.
08:07It's exciting to me.
08:08It's really exciting.
08:10And you're right, you know.
08:11It's hard to believe Christian McCaffrey's been in the league
08:13as long as he's been in the league.
08:15Juszczyk has been in for, like, 14 years.
08:19Kittle is, you know, older and all those guys.
08:21But, man, there's still such good players.
08:23There's such productive players.
08:25And it's such a good system that, you know, I think system, you know,
08:31just speaking of the system in general, you're not asking guys to go out there
08:36and just run by defenders.
08:39You're setting up defenses.
08:41You're setting up schematically.
08:45You're setting up defenses to create opportunities, wide-open opportunities
08:50where guys are getting open and having eight yards of space around them
08:55because the play-action fakes are so good.
08:57And what you do as an offense is just so sound.
09:01And so that's how you create all that stuff.
09:03So you're not looking for, hey, man, our guys have to find the fountain of youth
09:07and outrun people and, you know, and out-jump people.
09:10It's not how the offense is designed.
09:12And so I think you've got a great chance to be healthy, hopefully,
09:17and then you have a great chance always to have, you know,
09:22huge productive plays and explosive plays just through design.
09:26And you mentioned the schematic nature of it,
09:29and you also talked about Kyle Juszczyk.
09:31We had him on the show last week, and I think he's 35 years old,
09:34and he's still out there doing all that crazy motion
09:36and sticking his nose in there and leading the way in the ground game.
09:40How critical is he for exactly what you're laying out
09:43as far as the schematics of this offense?
09:46I think he's huge.
09:49And, you know, he's not, like, it's not, he doesn't play the traditional role of fullback,
09:54you know, where you're lining up and you're running ISO against a 250-pound linebacker,
09:59and it's just, you know, let's go out there and shorten our necks.
10:02You know, he's in motion.
10:04He's normally cutting guys off, or he's, you know, he's running that split zone
10:09where he's cutting the end man on the line of scrimmage.
10:12But he is so good when it comes to his motion, the timing of those motions,
10:18creating angles on defenders, and really, he is one of the great liars
10:25in the National Football League because he will lie with his eyes
10:30and tell you he's going to block you, and then he's got somebody else
10:33that he's sniping.
10:35He's just great at that.
10:37Like, he is, he's like, you know, like Matthew Stafford
10:40with the look-off passes and all that kind of stuff.
10:42He's just like the Eagles.
10:43You can't hide those lying eyes.
10:45He will just constantly lie to you, and he does,
10:49he just does a phenomenal job with that stuff.
10:51So he's a real deceptive dude in the running game
10:55in regards to not giving things away.
10:58Stink, now that the trade deadline is in the rearview mirror,
11:01would love to kind of recalibrate the NFC with you.
11:03I think we talked last week about the Simmons deal in Chicago
11:07and what that does for them.
11:10But a lot of news since we last talked to you.
11:12Puka Nakua is going to miss a lot of time.
11:14The Seahawks are still dealing with quarterback stuff,
11:17and now the Vikings have a quarterback in Kirk Cousins.
11:20So who do you see as the real threats to the 49ers in the NFC?
11:27Yeah, I mean, you look at Seattle, as good as their defense is,
11:31and they're really good.
11:34Offensively, man, they just have not clicked under Brian Fleury,
11:39your guys' ex-coordinator slash tight end coach, whatever he was,
11:44run game coordinator.
11:45They just have not clicked.
11:47And Sam Darnold just continues to turn the ball over like it's his job.
11:51And if they don't fix that,
11:55I don't see them as legitimate repeat contenders.
11:59I just don't.
12:01I think they'll be a playoff team, but you turn the ball over,
12:04you're just going to lose in this league.
12:06I still really like what Chicago has done.
12:10And even throwing four picks and turning the ball over five times
12:14and being minus three, you know,
12:15I was on the Stink of Truth podcast yesterday just going,
12:19you're minus three in the turnover battle and you still win?
12:22Man, that tells me you're a really good football team.
12:25They're going to run the ball.
12:27And that last drive, when Caleb Williams got the ball back at 24-24
12:31after their last fumble, their last turnover,
12:35man, they drove right down the football field,
12:36kicked a field goal to win that thing.
12:38So I still think they're a really good team.
12:41Minnesota defensively, they're awesome.
12:44I mean, they are special.
12:47They're putting one of the special defenses together.
12:49Like, if they had any offensive production whatsoever,
12:53we'd be talking about this team like, hey, man,
12:56we're having 2,000 Ravens or 2,000 Seahawks,
13:002013 Seahawks or 2015 Broncos defense.
13:04That's what we'd be talking about right now
13:06because they are that freaking good.
13:10Offensively, they're that bad.
13:12And, you know, when Kirk Cousins comes in there and does that help?
13:15Yeah, it helps.
13:16And, you know, Justin Jefferson should get the ball a little bit more.
13:18But I don't think they're very good up front.
13:20I don't think they run the ball exceptionally well.
13:22They've got a talented couple of talented wide receivers
13:25and a talented tight end.
13:27But do they have enough to take that pressure off of Kirk Cousins,
13:32you know, and to be a little bit more balanced?
13:35Yeah, I just got sick of watching KOC.
13:38They kept flashing to KOC.
13:39And I said, I was like, put Brian Flores back on.
13:42I don't even know who this KOC.
13:43Like, he's just, did he forget?
13:45Does he have good play amnesia now?
13:48Is that what happened?
13:50You know, we throw around genius and this, that, and the other way,
13:54way too much when it comes to football.
13:57Genius, one thing I've learned over the course of my career,
14:00genius in football are mutually exclusive events.
14:03Like, you're not playing or coaching in this league if you're a genius.
14:07There's more important things to do.
14:09I used to strap a piece of plastic on my head and slam it into other people.
14:13Oh, that takes real intelligence.
14:15Man, what a smart guy that guy is.
14:18It's stupid is what it is.
14:20Right, and also genius looks a lot smarter when your quarterback can actually
14:23hit the receiver and you can make plays in positive yards and all the rest of it,
14:27and we just didn't really see that.
14:29Is it fair to say now, Mark, that the Rams are done,
14:33or is that just too premature to throw dirt on them?
14:37I don't know what they're going to do on the offensive side of the ball, man.
14:40I called their game yesterday, and they got, you know, or, yeah, no, Sunday.
14:45Sunday, yeah.
14:45Sunday.
14:46They got their, you know, they got Miles Garrett back in 25 plays.
14:50He had three sacks, you know, and it was just like, wow.
14:53And he wasn't even in football shape.
14:55And Aaron Donald, even though Aaron Donald hasn't really compiled any statistics, man,
15:00he's wreaking havoc right now.
15:01He's in the backfield.
15:03They lost both their starting corners last week,
15:05but Trent McDuffie will come back.
15:07They're really good defensively.
15:08They're fast, aggressive.
15:11They had Pukunakua.
15:12That was their whole passing game.
15:14They had a bunch of dudes that were, like, running for the love of the game routes,
15:18and they're like, we're going to get you one target.
15:20Like, we're going to get you one target apiece,
15:22but don't expect to touch the football today.
15:26And you can see some of the frustration with Matthew Stafford
15:29because guys are not at the right depth.
15:31Guys aren't running the right routes.
15:33They're not coming out of their routes, you know, like, on time.
15:37Like, you could see the inconsistency of the passing game.
15:40The one guy that he believes in is Puka, and now Puka down.
15:44He was in that game.
15:45He had 19 targets and 14 catches, and he dropped two.
15:50Should have had 16 catches.
15:52So I don't know what they're going to do offensively.
15:55I really don't.
15:56I love their, you know, 13 personnel.
15:59And by the way, talking to Sean McVay, I was asking him about that,
16:04and he gave me the whole kind of catalytic event that led to 13 personnel.
16:13And so I was asking about it, and he was like, you know, how he speaks.
16:18He's like, great question.
16:20You know, and he's like, he goes, we were getting our ass kicked in San Francisco
16:25in 2025, you know, and he's like, and it really was, it was really born out of necessity
16:32after that ass kick in we took to San Francisco.
16:35He goes, we came back.
16:37The next week we got into 13 personnel against Baltimore.
16:40It worked, but we really activated it in Jacksonville in London.
16:46He goes, we really activated it there.
16:48I love the fact that it creates more surface space for the defense, you know,
16:52and he just goes to this five-minute dissertation of 13 personnel.
16:57And what I've learned is San Francisco and the ass whooping they put on them
17:01in the Thursday night game in 2025, it was an overtime win,
17:04but it was the physicality of the Niners that really created their propensity
17:12to just sit in 13 personnel and run the ball.
17:14So, you know what, you guys created that.
17:17You guys, because of the way you played them, you have created a trend
17:24because LA adjusted because of that game,
17:29and now everybody's trying to find three tight ends that they can play.
17:32I love it.
17:33How about that?
17:33I love it.
17:34And speaking of creating trends, your McVay is not bad.
17:38Really good, yeah.
17:39And you don't know this, but my partner here has been working on a McVay for six months,
17:45especially because we got all those interviews going out to Australia together.
17:48I'm sort of like leaning in the direction of seeing if Dan Dibley and Mark Schlereth,
17:55if you guys want to do a whole interview as McVay together, I'd be here for it.
18:00Yeah, that'd be great.
18:02Like, I just, it just is the way he talks, but, you know, I'm no Frank Caliendo,
18:07but that was like, I was just sitting there fascinated.
18:10It was not bad, Mark.
18:11I love talking to him.
18:12I mean, the terminology you use is great.
18:15I think you need a little bit more of a higher pitch,
18:16and I think you need a little bit more up-tempo because you're right about the nonsensical nature
18:20of what he does, and it just, it kind of goes on and on,
18:22and you actually have the perfect build for it because you're muscular,
18:25and I'm a little bit scrawny, and I've tried to do it with a small shirt or even a medium,
18:29and it doesn't really work out for me, and I'll tell you what,
18:31we probably should have gone to Australia earlier,
18:33but we're having real problems with our health right now, Mark.
18:36Yeah.
18:37The other thing they did, Dan, is they flew out, they flew out to Washington.
18:43They didn't land until 7 o'clock at night.
18:46Like, I mean, everybody nowadays, if they're playing an East Coast game,
18:54especially an early kickoff East Coast game, everybody now flies out on Friday night.
18:59What are you doing leaving Los Angeles, you know, I mean, in the afternoon landing,
19:06it's 7 o'clock at night.
19:07Stink, no one wants to hear this because he's minted, he's a good coach,
19:11and he's won a Super Bowl.
19:12I think he's having a horrible year.
19:14Like, you just brought this up.
19:17There's the Australia thing.
19:18He's practically apologizing for injuring Puka Nakua at the end of this game on a jet sweep.
19:24Like, he's skipping out on press conferences because he's ticked off.
19:29I mean, there was the kicker thing.
19:31I mean, like, this guy's having a horrible year.
19:35Well, it's not going well.
19:38You know, it's interesting.
19:40Like, if you go out to Australia the night before, you know, or whatever it was.
19:46Just think of that.
19:48Oh, my God.
19:49And you open a can of whoop-ass, you're a genius, right?
19:53Yep.
19:53But you go out the night before and you get your butt whipped, then you're a moron.
19:58And, like, so he's rolled the dice on a bunch of decisions,
20:02and they haven't, you know, they've turned up snake eyes every time.
20:05So, you know, it's not a good year right now.
20:08It's been a rough go.
20:09It's been a rough go.
20:10But it's worth it for the McVeigh impressions that we just got over the last 10 minutes.
20:15So, Stink, thanks, man.
20:17And we'll talk to you next week.
20:18And I'm saving this for then.
20:20I wanted to, like, handicap this Vikings defense against this Niners offense.
20:25But let's do that next Tuesday since, at that point,
20:28we're going to be getting ready for that game.
20:30That sounds good, man.
20:31Sounds like a winner.
20:32I appreciate you guys.
20:33Okay.
20:34We'll talk to you then.
20:35We'll talk to you then.

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