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Willard and Dibs debate if newly acquired Keenan Allen is just a stopgap at wide receiver until Mike Evans gets healthy for the 49ers.
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00:00The roster is now air quotes set.
00:03Sure, you can still make some additions off of the street,
00:07and maybe there will be some interesting ones.
00:09There were last year for the 49ers,
00:11but we can talk about that a little bit later.
00:13As you look at it now, what kind of excites you,
00:16what really worries you about what the Niners have going on?
00:19Dibs kind of pointed to Mike Evans in the wide receiver room.
00:22I'm still pointing to the defensive line
00:24where I would have loved another pass rusher.
00:26No edge rushers went at all.
00:27And Nick Bosa, you know, we've been told by Doc Pandia
00:32that the idea of stringing week after week together for Nick Bosa
00:36at this stage of his career with all the injuries is going to be difficult.
00:40Let's go to Matt in San Rafael.
00:41Hi, Matt. Thank you for calling us. What's up?
00:45Hey, guys.
00:46So after listening to you guys talk about the Niners' DB situation,
00:50my thought was take the over.
00:54I'm on Team Dibs as far as the Mike Evans train.
00:58I think they can win a lot of games.
01:00I don't think they can win the Super Bowl without him,
01:02even though I don't see Evans as an every-down player down the stretch.
01:07But he's a guy that in crunch time can make a play,
01:09and when he's on the field, the defense is going to focus on him,
01:12which allows a lot of other stuff to open up.
01:15But the thing I want to talk about is the side of the trade for Keenan Allen.
01:21I think that Allen is the stopgap for Evans not being there,
01:26that they needed someone that they could kind of rely on to get a catch
01:31or get a first down when they needed it.
01:34I think Evans is not going to be playing for a while,
01:37and I think that that's in part because Kyle understands
01:40that they're not going to the promised land without him.
01:44And you talked a little bit about the contracts.
01:47Everyone was screaming about Garrett Wilson and how they should trade for him.
01:50I kind of get the feeling that Kyle is never going to pay big money
01:54for a receiver again after what happened with Ayuk.
01:56I just see him as like, it ain't happening again.
01:58I'm not going down that rabbit hole.
02:00Because the Ayuk thing really could have devastated this team,
02:05and they got kind of lucky.
02:07I mean, kind of lucky that it wasn't as bad as it was
02:10and that he screwed up the way that he did
02:11so they could recoup some of the money.
02:13But I'm so excited to see the rest of the year,
02:16and I absolutely think that they're going to make noise in the playoffs.
02:20And if they've got Evans, I think they had even money to win it all.
02:22Matt, thanks so much.
02:24This is some really interesting comments.
02:26I think they got unlucky because Brendan Ayuk got hurt.
02:29And if Ayuk doesn't get hurt, does he go full-on meltdown mode?
02:33We'll never know.
02:34But the fact that he got hurt after you paid him
02:37and then things devolved into the way they devolved, that was a problem.
02:41Don't forget that we were at least halfway down the meltdown trade
02:44and well before the injury
02:45because the whole contract negotiation was super ugly,
02:48and I never really bought that they had made up.
02:52Like, let's be real.
02:54We had plenty of reports from inside the building
02:57that the 49ers almost instantly regretted doing the deal the way they did
03:03because there was a lot going on behind the scenes.
03:06Like, I can't sit here and tell you this happened and then that happened.
03:10Just look at George Kittle's face and listen to his words
03:13when he spoke over the summer about Brandon Ayuk
03:17when he said, yeah, he's very talented.
03:21Have fun with that.
03:22Have fun with all that comes with Brandon Ayuk.
03:26We'll never know, is my opinion,
03:28the tons and tons of things that happened in addition to what we do know.
03:33So there's that.
03:34Now, to his point, he thinks Kyle Shanahan will never do a big contract
03:40for a wide receiver ever again.
03:42What a fascinating thought.
03:44So the first thing that goes through my mind is, well, good,
03:48because I don't think those are great deals usually.
03:52However, as I said even off the top, I do think there are exceptions.
03:57If I'm Seattle, I'm doing what I did with Jackson Smith and J.
04:00How could you not?
04:01No doubt.
04:02No doubt.
04:02So let's play this out.
04:05For example, will Kyle ever do that again?
04:08Well, they were enamored with Dajon Stribling
04:12after drafting him and putting him through camp.
04:14They were enamored.
04:15Let's say the next three years go great for Stribling.
04:21You letting him go?
04:22Or would you do a big deal?
04:25Like, I think that teams should lean in the direction
04:28of we're not going to do that deal unless we are uber sure
04:32that this is a very, very key piece to what we're doing
04:37and a great, like, legitimately great player.
04:39It's beyond just being a great player, and you're right.
04:42So it has to be great player.
04:44Jackson Smith and Jigba is that.
04:45It has to be a guy who is reliable and durable.
04:49He's yet to miss a game, knock on wood, in his career.
04:53He only started three games as a rook, but he played in all of them.
04:56So he's been there. He's been a good, solid citizen.
04:59He's been reliable. He's been durable. He's been elite.
05:02So if you check all those boxes, yes, then give a guy the big money
05:05because if you have one of these types of players,
05:08no matter what offense you run, that's a good thing.
05:11The problem with what the Niners did is Debo,
05:14you were using him as a wide back, and then that didn't work out.
05:17And Iuke, I don't think that they fully grasped what his character
05:21could potentially become, even though he was doghouse early,
05:25he wore the wrong shorts, you know, this and that.
05:28And there were signs, I think, that they could have seen,
05:30but ultimately they did what they did,
05:32and now they're going to have a pretty sizable dead cap hit
05:35coming up for the next two years.
05:37There's no doubt there were signs.
05:38I think that Brandon Iuke was a benefactor of circumstance.
05:44So you've got to remember when the Niners signed him.
05:48So there were rumors all offseason that they might move off of Debo Samuel
05:52and or Brandon Iuke.
05:54They end up moving off of neither one of them,
05:57but as we've been told, a trade to the Steelers was literally moments away
06:03from being consummated.
06:05Okay, and then he runs up a staircase or goes up an elevator or something.
06:10Kyle did, right?
06:10Yeah, stops the deal.
06:11I'd love to know exactly how that all...
06:13If that's actually something that happened.
06:15Yeah, yeah.
06:16But that said, why would the 49ers blink when there were all of these signs?
06:22They were already frustrated.
06:23They were totally ticked off.
06:25You know, Brandon showing up with the wrong clothes,
06:28Brandon doing the hold-in thing
06:30and just almost antagonizing the organization on a daily basis.
06:34Why did they do it?
06:36They were so damn painfully close to winning it all.
06:41That's why they did it.
06:42And they wanted to bring the team back
06:44because they thought that they had the best team in football.
06:48And I think the 49ers learned a valuable lesson there,
06:51which is that when an individual...
06:54Is it Maya Angelou that always had that phrase?
06:57When an individual tells you who they are, believe them.
06:59And Brandon told them who he is and they didn't believe him.
07:04So they gave him $30 million a year
07:06and then they regretted it seven minutes later and ever since.
07:10And look at the way this story has gone since then.
07:13So would they do it again?
07:14Yes, but I think that they will listen to their gut a lot better
07:18and they will need to see some really, really impressive stuff
07:24both on the field and off before they would do a deal like that.
07:28But I don't think you can eliminate the possibility.
07:30You can't, but I do think that when you have scars from certain actions
07:35and you think about that again, whether you're a skateboarder
07:38and you break your arm and you go back out and you skateboard again,
07:40you break the other arm and maybe you're thinking,
07:42and skateboarding might not be for me.
07:44And so in this case, you did it with Iyuk and you got burned.
07:47And I'm looking at Ricky Pearsall right now,
07:50who even if he comes out next year and has a really good year,
07:53well, that would be year three
07:54because I don't think he gets credit for this one.
07:56So if he stacks back-to-back really good years,
07:59the kind of year you would expect from a first-round pick,
08:02you're going to have a hard choice to make
08:03because durability has been an issue.
08:06Stribbling, same thing.
08:07If he doesn't play at all this year, which is possible,
08:09and he comes out and he has three really good ones in a row,
08:13you're going to be faced with a tough call.
08:15Yeah, absolutely.
08:16Now, the other side of this conversation that we're having,
08:19I think Mike Evans is such an interesting case.
08:22I think this is circumstantial.
08:24So we left last year with the thought that,
08:27well, the wide receivers can't separate,
08:28and therefore the offense can't move against Seattle.
08:32Then the Niners go to Seattle, and what happens?
08:35They not only win the game, but they win the game
08:38on an unbelievable length of the field drive
08:40that pretty much featured Mike left, Mike right,
08:44Mike over the middle, Mike right again, Mike, Mike, Mike.
08:47And so now we have adopted this idea,
08:50well, the 49ers can't win big games against good defenses
08:54without Mike Evans.
08:55I just, again, without, like,
08:58I want to try to thread the needle here.
09:00I'm not disagreeing with his awesomeness and his importance,
09:03but I don't see him as, like, they're dead without him.
09:09I don't think a 49er,
09:11I've never felt that way about a 49er offense.
09:15How have they been good for the last,
09:18I don't know how many years?
09:19How have they been to two Super Bowls?
09:21How have they done all of these things?
09:23It's been with McCaffrey, primarily.
09:25When he's healthy, your offense is really good.
09:27And he's still here.
09:29Right.
09:29So, like, again, are they better with Mike?
09:33Sure.
09:34Do I like their chances better with Mike?
09:36Of course.
09:37But I don't see the 49ers as a dependent offense on any one wide receiver.
09:44I just don't see them as operating that way.
09:46And I think that in this case, in my opinion,
09:49they are dependent on the one wide receiver,
09:51because you mentioned it, they can't separate.
09:53And honestly, Mike Evans doesn't separate either,
09:56but it doesn't matter, because Brock Purdy, your guy,
09:59Mr. President of Brockistan,
10:00he throws it near Evans.
10:02Evans is big, strong, he's done it a long time,
10:04and he catches the ball.
10:06Keenan Allen's a lesser version of that.
10:08He's not as big, he's not quite as good,
10:11but he's somebody who you can throw the ball near him,
10:13and he mostly will grab the ball.
10:15By the way, do you know that he's an elite separator?
10:18Who, Keenan Allen?
10:19Uh-huh.
10:19Even though he is not very fast.
10:22Right.
10:22So separation is not actually about speed.
10:24It's about route.
10:25Exactly.
10:26And that's why Chris McCaffrey is such a weapon,
10:28because he runs that choice route,
10:29where he runs straight at the linebacker,
10:31and does his little wiggle move,
10:33and he either goes left or right.
10:35Did you see the social media thing
10:37between Mike Evans and Keenan Allen,
10:38like, seven years ago?
10:40No.
10:40You didn't see this?
10:41No, I'm not really on social media like I used to be.
10:44Why not?
10:45What happened?
10:45A lot happened, but go ahead.
10:47You and Steve Kerr, what happened?
10:48No, nothing.
10:50Well, things have happened,
10:51but I just don't find it as, what, Instagram every now and again?
10:55You were on there a lot over the weekend.
10:57On Instagram?
10:58No Twitter?
10:59Oh, yeah.
10:59Yeah, yeah.
11:00Not anymore.
11:01I saw you a lot.
11:02Why?
11:03That's what I mean.
11:03What happened?
11:04Let's continue with the topic.
11:05Seven years ago, what happened?
11:07Okay.
11:08I'm going to, Granny, help me with this.
11:10I'm going to do my best to sort of like,
11:13because I don't have it in front of me,
11:14but they got into a beef because the NFL put out their top 100 list,
11:20and Keenan Allen was named somewhere in the 70s, I think.
11:25It's an honor.
11:27You're in the top 100,
11:28and this is back when these guys were both in their prime, right?
11:31They're both in their mid to late 20s.
11:32It was in 2020, so yeah, six years ago.
11:34Okay, all right, six years ago.
11:35So Keenan Allen gets named like whatever it was, 72, doesn't matter.
11:40He gets named, and he immediately is like,
11:44okay, I don't normally do this, but I got to say something.
11:48I can read the tweet.
11:49Yeah, read it.
11:49He tweeted, okay, I'm tired of biting my tongue,
11:52at Tyreek Hill, at Mike Evans.
11:55He meant to tag Chris Godwin, but he tagged a Chris Goodwin.
11:59Exactly.
11:59And he said, and the list goes on.
12:02They're not a better receiver than me,
12:04faster than me every day of the week,
12:06but separation child, please.
12:08Okay, and then Mike Evans,
12:10he quote tweeted it.
12:12He responded.
12:13And he said, you tagged the wrong Chris Godwin, LOL,
12:15and don't be mad at us.
12:16We ain't make the rankings or care about them.
12:19I like the confidence, but be realistic.
12:21You're not on my level, bro.
12:23Okay, so these guys are now teammates.
12:25This was six years ago.
12:27It has been squashed, by the way.
12:30Mike Evans did an interview a short time later,
12:32and he's like, Keenan is my dog.
12:34And so they did sort of like whatever.
12:37I think there's a mutual respect there,
12:39but these guys, it caught my attention for two reasons.
12:43One, just because these two were beefing on social media,
12:46number one.
12:47But number two, I was like,
12:49look at what Keenan Allen said about himself,
12:53and then think about what the Niners just did.
12:55I think that's very interesting
12:57because a lot of fans would think separation means speed.
13:03It means Tyreek Hill.
13:05And I think it means sort of what you just said.
13:08It's footwork.
13:09It's route running.
13:11And Keenan Allen through the years,
13:13that is how he's achieved what he's achieved.
13:15He's not fast for a wide receiver,
13:17but the reason he has a potential Hall of Fame resume.
13:22Oh, he's going to the Hall of Fame.
13:23It's because he separates.
13:24He knows how to use body leverage and whatnot
13:28to leave defensive backs in the dust,
13:32at least in his short field.
13:34So he operates in that 20 yards
13:37from the line of scrimmage area
13:38and is able to really, really create space
13:41at a very high level,
13:43which is what the 49ers had trouble with last year.
13:48And your point, Mike Evans is not great at it.
13:51He's great.
13:52But not necessarily as a separator.
13:55That's what Keenan Allen does.
13:57And that's why I think that even if Mike Evans comes back,
14:00when he comes back,
14:02you still can utilize Keenan Allen on this team
14:04because he's a guy who knows how to run routes.
14:07He knows how to get open.
14:09And Brock Purdy, as we've seen throughout the course of his career,
14:11even this year more so than ever before,
14:13all he needs is about a half a man for your guy to be open.
14:17And sometimes your guy's not even open and you just trust him.
14:20And that's what we've seen with Mike Evans when he's been out there,
14:23where Mike Evans is maybe barely open.
14:25I'm thinking about the one on the goal line where Brock rolled left
14:28or he climbed the pocket and he just chucked it.
14:31Miami.
14:31The one where he hit it right in the corner next to the pylon?
14:34It was against Miami.
14:35And he's not open.
14:36Right.
14:37He's not open.
14:38It's Mike and I'm throwing it and I have faith in him.
14:40And so I do think that those two together,
14:43along with Debo as the wide back,
14:45they give you a very interesting and diverse sort of wide receiver core.
14:49I was thinking about this morning,
14:51the debate we had yesterday about this.
14:53And by no means was I saying that Keenan Allen
14:58is going to be deactivated in December.
15:00Obviously, he's got the court thing looming.
15:02And so that might mean some missed games.
15:05We'll see how that goes.
15:05For those who don't know what we're talking about,
15:07there is a pending driving under the influence situation for Keenan Allen.
15:13And there's a December 7th meeting.
15:15And could that lead to a three-game suspension?
15:17You're darn right it could.
15:18So there's that.
15:19But there's also the idea that if in December,
15:22if the whole 49er wide receiver core is healthy,
15:26and actually even sans shriveling,
15:29if you have the opportunity to,
15:31if Cowling is still returning punts,
15:33which right now that's what he's doing,
15:35if you have the opportunity for Mike Evans,
15:38Debo Samuel, Demarcus Robinson,
15:40Jordan Watkins,
15:41and Keenan Allen all healthy,
15:44who would you activate?
15:46And I sort of made the case for Jordan Watkins.
15:48You made the case for Keenan Allen.
15:50And I was thinking about our talk this morning
15:52because I got a healthy bit on social media
15:56that got posted by the station and everything.
15:58And I got a healthy bit back of like,
16:00I agree with you.
16:01And then probably even more of like,
16:03what are you talking about?
16:05Keenan Allen's awesome.
16:07And I was thinking,
16:08I go,
16:09if that's how a lot of you feel about Keenan Allen,
16:13why would you not be even more excited about the trade?
16:17It sounds to me like there's a number of 49er fans
16:20who believe that the Niners have just acquired their wide receiver too.
16:24And if that is their wide receiver too,
16:27and you just got them at the deadline for a sixth round pick,
16:30you freaking robbed someone.
16:33And we should be celebrating in the streets,
16:35right?
16:37If they just got WR2?
16:39Essentially.
16:40For a sixth?
16:41And you can call him WR2,
16:43but really he's probably WR4
16:45because Kittle and McCaffrey would be ahead of him
16:48on the target share and all the rest of it.
16:51Sure,
16:52even if he's wide receiver three
16:53or even if he's wide receiver four
16:55and you put Robinson and Debo ahead of him,
16:57for me,
16:58you gave up a sixth
16:59and that still is a steal.
17:01And if he goes out there
17:02and he has eight catches in the game,
17:05which is a lot,
17:06but just eight catches,
17:07he jumps over Chris Carter
17:09and Marvin Harrison
17:10on the all-time list.
17:12Oh, you're right.
17:12He's going to the Hall.
17:14He's got 1,095.
17:16So now we got another future Hall of Famer.
17:19How many is that on the offense?
17:22On the whole team,
17:23I think you're looking at probably,
17:25well, there's four locks.
17:26Evans is a lock
17:27and Trent's a lock.
17:28McCaffrey's a lock.
17:29Don't forget Kittle's a lock, dude.
17:31I know you hesitate.
17:33You're working on closing the lock,
17:34but he's damn close.
17:35He's in.
17:36And then Keenan Allen.
17:37And now Keenan Allen.
17:38You only have...
17:39And Colton McKibbitz.
17:41You have 18.
17:41This is funny.
17:42Connor Colby.
17:4318 human beings
17:45have 1,000 or more catches.
17:46Yeah.
17:46And Keenan Allen's coming up on 1,100.
17:49Oh, that's a lot.