00:03Abbiamo già ospitato in trasmissione molti membri italiani del Comitato delle Regioni e tutti hanno condiviso la loro preoccupazione per
00:12i negoziati in corso sul prossimo bilancio dell'Unione Europea.
00:16Temono che dal 2028 riceveranno meno fondi strutturali europei e soprattutto che saranno tagliati fuori dalle decisioni su dove investire
00:27questi fondi.
00:29Depotenziando quindi l'efficacia della politica di coesione europea con il rischio di aumentare le disuguaglianze sociali ed economiche.
00:37Lei che rappresenta tutte le regioni e gli enti locali europei ci può aiutare a capire se questi timori sono
00:44solo italiani o no?
00:46Ma questo è un problema che è ovunque, non solo l'Italia, non solo l'efficienza di coesione, è anche
00:53presente in Germania, è anche presente in Francia, è anche presente in Austria, è presente in Spagna, in Portugal.
01:02Look, we have been digesting the budget proposal together with the Italian presidents of regions and Italian representatives, not just
01:11the regions, but also with the mayors of cities.
01:14We have the mayor of Roma, we have the mayor of Bologna also with us.
01:17Okay, so why is the concern?
01:20Because there is discussion now on the EU long-term budget.
01:24And most of our citizens think that the EU budget is super big, but in reality it's not very big.
01:31We are spending together around 1% of the European GDP, yearly around 250 billion euros.
01:39That's around the GDP of one Italian region, like a Lazio region.
01:46So it's big from cities, but in reality for the 27 member states it's not a lot of money.
01:54The big question is, and we see the discussions that it will not grow, the big question is, where are
02:01we spending this money and who is deciding where the money goes?
02:05And one of the most important investment spending policy of the European Union is cohesion policy.
02:11Why is that important for all regions, for the Italian regions and cities?
02:16Because cohesion policy is the connecting policy of the European Union.
02:20It builds the roads between the regions and places, it builds public transport, trains, it builds digital connection, it builds
02:30energy connection, it helps keep water clean and invest in water resilience.
02:37It invests in the small and middle-sized companies so they have a chance to be part in the European
02:42competition in the single market.
02:44But most importantly, for our citizens, it invests in the people.
02:48This is the money where we build kindergartens, nurseries, hospitals, schools renovation, energy transition.
02:57So this is the policy that connects the territories, the people, to the European decisions and to each other.
03:04The most important policy, it's a European thing and it's part of competitiveness, but the budget proposal on the table,
03:12it disconnects cohesion investment policy from competitiveness.
03:19It says competitiveness is something else, it's a European league championship, money should go only to excellence.
03:27This connects cohesion policy from it and says that cohesion policy is not anymore a top European policy, but it's
03:35now moved, nationalized, this is what we say, it's now given to member state governments to get it with agricultural
03:43policy funding.
03:45Saying to member state governments from now on, this is your responsibility, so here is some money, EU money, and
03:52you will decide, member state government, how you spend that money between food security, so farmers and cities and regions
04:00and migration, border control, housing, you decide.
04:05Right, there will be a clear competition between the priorities there is, because the money is always less than the
04:12problems, a real competition between regions, because there will be some secured funding for the less developed regions,
04:19but we don't know what will happen with transition regions or more developed regions that are not competitive enough in
04:28the European league of competition for private investments.
04:33We just talked today about industrialization, so there is a lot of uncertainty, clearly less resources than the problems we
04:43have, and the big concern is that it's disconnecting.
04:49Europe is now zooming out from the regional level, because today the cohesion policy, it sees the regions, regions are
04:56part of the designing of the policy, of the investments, and it's now disconnecting.
05:01And what we say that it's impossible, you know, it's a very bad policy choice to disconnect design from actually
05:09those who have to build the things that you designed in Brussels, and from the users, so regional regions have
05:16to be there in the design of the policy.
05:19And if it depends on the national government, who they involve in the design, it's clear we have concerns, you
05:27know Italian politics better than I do, but talking to our members, it's not an easy situation.
05:34So concerns are real, and all over.
05:37I cosiddetti paesi frugali, cioè quelli che vorrebbero tagliare il bilancio europeo e concentrare le risorse su politiche come la
05:45difesa e il sostegno alle industrie, capitanati in primis dalla Germania,
05:49definiscono la politica di coesione e quella agricola come politiche del passato, non più al passo con i tempi. Secondo
05:58lei è così?
05:59Well, it's a super not nice framing, and it's a very not true framing of the policy. Look, today discussion
06:07is not just defence and competitiveness, but also Europe should be strategically independent from the world.
06:16What is Europe's foremost and first strategic autonomy policy? It's called the Common Agricultural Policy, because that's a food security
06:26policy. We said that we will not outsource food production to the world outside because Europe has to be autonomous
06:37in producing its own food.
06:39That was the first strategic autonomy project. And we understand now how important this was. We invest money together in
06:51farming, so European farmers don't give up farming, so European land is not giving up to other uses, because we
07:01know that it's important for us.
07:03So that was the first step. How can you say this is an old outdated policy? Because life proved that
07:11when the cooperation in the world is disappearing, you need to invest, unfortunately, more in these issues.
07:19You have to have your own water, your own food, your own energy, and everything else only comes after. Don't
07:27tell me that extracting raw materials is more important and building chips is more important than producing your own food.
07:36So that's for agriculture.
07:38Cohesion policy. Cohesion policy. Is the single market a policy of the past? It's clearly not that it's not because
07:46we everybody's talking about competitiveness, that we have to strengthen the single market.
07:51So clearly the single market is not a policy of the past. But what is cohesion policy? Cohesion policy is
07:57part of the single market mechanism. Because the single market cannot work without a reinvestment policy that reinvests part of
08:08the gains of the market, because you know, the benefits of the market comes in different places than the costs
08:15of the market.
08:16Well, you know that we see depopulating areas, we see talent concentrating in a few cities, we see where private
08:23capital moves, talent moves, workers move, we see brain drain from one country to another, from rural to the urban
08:32areas, we see that those companies who are very strong, they can get stronger in a single market, those who
08:39are weak can disappear.
08:40So there is a reinvestment mechanism constantly with the single market. This is part of the economic and political sustainability
08:48mechanism. So every territory has a chance to compete. Every European company has a chance to be part of the
08:58single market.
08:59And the free movement. And the free movement of people means that we invest in skills. So the free movement
09:04is a possibility. But you have to balance this with what we call the right to stay coming from executive
09:12vice president Rafael Fito, which is the rebranding of cohesion policy.
09:17It says that, okay, you're free to move. But you it mustn't be an obligation. It's not shouldn't be a
09:25must. Because you don't find jobs, you don't find public services, there is no housing. So we have to constantly
09:32reinvest in the territories. So it's not an obligation for our citizens to move from one territory to another, from
09:41the rural or smaller towns to big cities or from one country to another.
09:46This is the full story.
09:48Stiamo ormai andando verso le battute finali del negoziato fra i capi di stato e di governo sul bilancio. Da
09:55qui alla fine dell'anno ci saranno due riunioni cruciali per capire se un accordo è ancora possibile in tempi
10:02rapidi.
10:03Senza però dimenticare che poi toccherà al Parlamento europeo validare l'intesa fra i leader. Secondo lei c'è ancora
10:09margine per una marcia indietro sulla centralizzazione della politica di coesione? E cosa si aspetta che accadrà nelle prossime settimane?
10:18We will fight until the last moment. And when I say we, I mean also our Italian members, presidents of
10:25regions. We are very united independently of political parties. And you know, these people, they hold legitimacy from their voters
10:34who elected them.
10:35And you know politics cannot put aside those people who actually represent the places that policies has to be built
10:43in. Look, we will see if there will be an agreement. That's not my responsibility. It's the responsibility of the
10:51member state governments.
10:52And Europe has a technology for compromise. But what we will look very closely is what will happen in the
11:01friends of cohesion group, because we know the other groups who say we should cut everything. But we have the
11:0616 member states and Italy is in the lead in that the Italian government was very important to preserve a
11:13standalone strong European cohesion policy.
11:17I really hope that if there is a compromise, it is not a compromise on this promise of shared prosperity
11:27and giving up cohesion policy. So we will be watching. Italian politicians will be watching. What is the Italian government
11:33doing? And in other cohesion countries, our leaders will be watching where the compromise is made and who will pay
11:40the price.
11:41And of course, after the trial starts and the European Parliament, especially the S&D group pledged to protect, especially
11:52the social Europe pillar in cohesion policy. So we will keep on this, this fight.
