- 1 year ago
John and Bob discuss a recent public message delivered by Mike Bickle’s sister, Lisa Stribbling, which sparked a wave of emotional and theological reactions. Drawing from years of firsthand experience inside charismatic movements, John and Bob unpack the underlying psychological, spiritual, and familial dynamics at play. They reflect on the weight of spiritual authority, cultic mindsets, and the impact of charisma-driven leadership within religious communities, particularly when scandal strikes.
The conversation moves between personal stories and historical parallels, drawing comparisons between Branhamism and IHOP KC. They explore the role of family loyalty in enabling dysfunction, the dangers of suppressing critique within religious environments, and how belief systems can shape reality even in the face of moral failure. They end by expressing deep concern for those still trapped in high-control systems and consider how public accountability and spiritual restoration must be thoughtfully and responsibly navigated.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Background on Bob’s connection to the Bickle family
03:17 Public backlash over Lisa Stribbling’s address
05:48 Lisa’s history and work in the inner city
08:22 Contradiction between past ministry and recent outburst
09:23 Cult mindset and belief in divine authority
12:04 Historical insight into Mike Bickle’s need for uniqueness
15:18 How followers attach their identity to leaders
17:04 Family dynamics within the Bickle household
18:46 How broken backgrounds fuel elite identity narratives
20:01 The struggle with losing “special” status
22:04 Groupthink and the absence of guardrails in elite circles
25:34 Family members leveraging proximity to leadership
28:10 The painful reality of fading influence
32:06 John’s perspective on sympathy for Lisa
33:35 Prophetic collapse after a leader’s fall
34:25 The push to “resurrect” fallen leaders
37:19 The “man of God” theology and untouchability
39:14 Claiming divine pardon without repentance
40:49 Rejecting facts as a hallmark of cult thinking
42:47 Mental blocking and selective hearing in cult settings
43:52 Dangers of removing accountability
44:57 “Spirit of accusation” and shutting down critique
47:13 The need for healthy critique in leadership
50:32 Restoration paths in Christianity versus cults
51:59 Underlying desperation driving Lisa’s response
54:54 Possible futures for Mike Bickle’s influence
58:14 How labeling critique as accusation protects abuse
59:28 Mental health issues and “God complex” in leadership
1:00:15 Failure to “read the room” before speaking
1:02:11 Spiritual suicide and public embarrassment
1:03:15 Closing thoughts on warning signs and future outlook
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.c
The conversation moves between personal stories and historical parallels, drawing comparisons between Branhamism and IHOP KC. They explore the role of family loyalty in enabling dysfunction, the dangers of suppressing critique within religious environments, and how belief systems can shape reality even in the face of moral failure. They end by expressing deep concern for those still trapped in high-control systems and consider how public accountability and spiritual restoration must be thoughtfully and responsibly navigated.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Background on Bob’s connection to the Bickle family
03:17 Public backlash over Lisa Stribbling’s address
05:48 Lisa’s history and work in the inner city
08:22 Contradiction between past ministry and recent outburst
09:23 Cult mindset and belief in divine authority
12:04 Historical insight into Mike Bickle’s need for uniqueness
15:18 How followers attach their identity to leaders
17:04 Family dynamics within the Bickle household
18:46 How broken backgrounds fuel elite identity narratives
20:01 The struggle with losing “special” status
22:04 Groupthink and the absence of guardrails in elite circles
25:34 Family members leveraging proximity to leadership
28:10 The painful reality of fading influence
32:06 John’s perspective on sympathy for Lisa
33:35 Prophetic collapse after a leader’s fall
34:25 The push to “resurrect” fallen leaders
37:19 The “man of God” theology and untouchability
39:14 Claiming divine pardon without repentance
40:49 Rejecting facts as a hallmark of cult thinking
42:47 Mental blocking and selective hearing in cult settings
43:52 Dangers of removing accountability
44:57 “Spirit of accusation” and shutting down critique
47:13 The need for healthy critique in leadership
50:32 Restoration paths in Christianity versus cults
51:59 Underlying desperation driving Lisa’s response
54:54 Possible futures for Mike Bickle’s influence
58:14 How labeling critique as accusation protects abuse
59:28 Mental health issues and “God complex” in leadership
1:00:15 Failure to “read the room” before speaking
1:02:11 Spiritual suicide and public embarrassment
1:03:15 Closing thoughts on warning signs and future outlook
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.c
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Bob Scott, former co-founder
00:00:46of the Kansas City Fellowship and author of three books.
00:00:50The latest is Some Said They Blundered, Breaking My Decades of Silence on Mike Bickle, the Kansas
00:00:55City Prophets, and the International House of Prayer.
00:00:58Well, Bob, it's a good day for you to further break your decades of silence.
00:01:05I'll just go ahead.
00:01:06So I've had people email me and send me messages and all kinds of stuff about this.
00:01:12I hate to use the word sermon, but it was framed like a sermon and framed with divine authority,
00:01:18but we'll get into talking about that.
00:01:20But this mess that was created by Mike Bickle's sister, we have to talk about it.
00:01:28I know other people are already talking about it and they're diving into the theological issues
00:01:32and some of them just get back and forth because of the controversy that's there, but you have
00:01:38a lot of the backstory that I think none of the others are going to be able to give.
00:01:42So today we're going to dive into this and I will preface this conversation with this.
00:01:48I'm not big into controversy.
00:01:50That's why I actually stick with the history.
00:01:53I prefer things that aren't the heat of the moment.
00:01:55So this isn't me going after, you know, what is the current hot topic, but I really want
00:02:01to dive deeper into some of the things behind what is being said.
00:02:05Because as I listened to this, to the audience who doesn't know me, I escaped a cult that
00:02:11was the Branhamites, the cult following of William Branham, which was essentially the
00:02:17foundation for what everything that was being said in that sermon, for the foundation for
00:02:22IHOPKC.
00:02:23IHOPKC was Branhamism 2.0.
00:02:26And when I listened to this woman speaking, interestingly, it sounds like a thousand different
00:02:33sermons that I can remember growing up.
00:02:34This is the same loaded language with different theologies.
00:02:39It's the same exact thing.
00:02:41And whenever the central figure gets angry at something, it comes out as a divine reprimand
00:02:47of the whole, the city, the nation, the people involved, even right down to the pews.
00:02:54There were statements in there, you people, you're doing this.
00:02:57And it was like a good tongue lashing.
00:03:00I can remember several sermons when I left the building.
00:03:02And the men outside would literally tell each other, boy, we sure got a good tongue lashing
00:03:07today, didn't we, brothers?
00:03:09And that's how I feel about this.
00:03:11So we're going to talk about it.
00:03:12And I'll let you kick it off.
00:03:14Well, for people who may not know what we're talking about, you might want to put up a link
00:03:20as you, she actually got annihilated publicly over this sermon and she took it down.
00:03:29But I guess you found it on the Royce Report.
00:03:32So some people may not be familiar with what happened.
00:03:36For those of you that are catching up, my Bickle's youngest sister, whose name is Lisa
00:03:44Stribling, Lisa Bickle Stribling, got up at her inner city church.
00:03:51What was it, Sunday, last Sunday, and basically excoriated everyone for their holding her brother
00:04:00accountable for his misdeeds.
00:04:04And it created quite a buzz.
00:04:08As with most things like that, there's a myriad of different reactions, right?
00:04:15Um, for me, I was actually, I've been out of town spending time with family.
00:04:22So I sort of got T-boned with this.
00:04:25Um, and so I listened to it as I was, uh, driving and my initial reaction, like 30 seconds
00:04:34in was just cringe.
00:04:36And, um, my spirit's pretty sensitive, you know, so I, I, I kind of pick up attitudes or
00:04:43vibes or whatever you want to call it.
00:04:46And that thing just, I mean, 30 seconds into it, I was just cringing.
00:04:51Um, then, um, I felt sad and I have a unique perspective on this because this is, I'm not
00:05:04detached from this story.
00:05:05Um, just a little background.
00:05:08Um, I've known Lisa since she was in junior high.
00:05:11I, I mean, because of my relationship with the family and, um, being involved since 1975,
00:05:18um, I kind of know the whole backstory.
00:05:22So, um, I had very mixed emotions, um, on the one hand, because of the fact that there's
00:05:32history there, um, there was a side of me that was mourning.
00:05:38Um, I can't, it's hard to explain it, but I, it's like, I felt bad, like, no, no, no,
00:05:42no, no, no, please don't do this.
00:05:44You know what I mean?
00:05:45It's like, um, despite the way my relationship with that whole group of people ended, I still
00:05:54have affection, right?
00:05:55We have history.
00:05:56We have in the midst of a lot of bad stuff.
00:05:59There was a lot of good stuff, right?
00:06:01So I have a, an attachment.
00:06:03It's like family.
00:06:04You know what I mean?
00:06:04It's like, you love them and hate them.
00:06:06And so I have these mixed emotions about it.
00:06:10Um, what particularly made me sad was that for those that don't know, Alisa and her husband,
00:06:18um, have a really rough background.
00:06:23I mean, we're talking about prison, robbery, drugs.
00:06:27I mean, it's, it's, it's a rough history.
00:06:30She's a tough woman, you know, she kind of reminds me of, uh, what's that, that preacher
00:06:36from, you know, female preacher from East St. Louis, um, Joyce Meyer, she's, she's very
00:06:43much like Joyce Meyer, but I was always very proud of her because they went into the inner
00:06:49city, which I felt was very prophetic.
00:06:53And when I mean by prophetic, I mean, living your life as a living message, speaking God's
00:07:00heart.
00:07:01And so they went into the inner city and have been in there for years helping the, you
00:07:07know, the, um, people that are really struggling.
00:07:11And I just have always really admired her and her husband, Ray.
00:07:15Then this happened and I'm like, what, you know, it's like suddenly she shifted from the
00:07:24prophetic being the love for the poor and disenfranchised to being prophetic by excoriating and, and backhanding
00:07:33the whole church.
00:07:36Right.
00:07:37So I'm looking at this going, okay, these, these things don't mix, right?
00:07:41It's like this and the two things are like paradoxical.
00:07:46So I'm driving at, you know, trying to ponder all this, what's going on here?
00:07:51Right.
00:07:52It's like you poured your life out for the poor.
00:07:54You've done this incredible thing.
00:07:56You've got this ministry called Hope City, you know, it's, everyone admires it.
00:08:01And then suddenly out of left field comes this energy and this anger and this rage and this
00:08:10condemnation and this shaming, right?
00:08:14And I'm like, what in the heck is this?
00:08:18Right.
00:08:18Cause it, it's like the two things don't seem to add up.
00:08:21So the question I've been asking myself, what's driving this?
00:08:25I don't know her at all.
00:08:26And I've, other than this, I've never actually heard her speak.
00:08:29So I'm going to direct all my comments to generalizations of the cult mindset instead,
00:08:35and also some representation of what I had in my head.
00:08:40Because when I listened to it, it's interesting what you're describing.
00:08:44I would have had if I was in your shoes, if I knew them, that I have had the same feelings
00:08:50without having had the same feelings.
00:08:52It's very much like there were ministers that I was not really in the inner circle with
00:08:59in Branhamism.
00:09:00And when I would attend their churches and they were having one of their bad days, I
00:09:05guess you'd call it, and they just completely scolded the congregation.
00:09:10I was on the congregation side in those scenarios and you walk out of there feeling lower than
00:09:15dirt because that's what they're wanting you to do.
00:09:17But what I have came to understand afterwards, after leaving this and understanding the cult
00:09:23psychology, the cult mentality, what is happening from what I see when a cult leader or somebody
00:09:32who's in the cult elite, they see themselves as at this higher plane.
00:09:36So you're down here, they're up here at the top.
00:09:39They see themselves in this higher plane.
00:09:42They want, there are things inside of them that they want to say that they've bottling up,
00:09:47they realize that it's not the time to say them, but they're bottling them up like any
00:09:51human.
00:09:52And there comes a point when they have convinced themselves that they are actually a divine
00:09:58authority, that God is actually speaking through their lips.
00:10:02It's not, I know that some of the others out there have said she's lying, she doesn't
00:10:06feel this way.
00:10:06When you're in the cult mentality, which she appears to be, you actually believe this stuff.
00:10:12You believe that God is speaking through you.
00:10:14So she comes out there, and from what I can see, it's very much like the other cult leaders
00:10:20who bottle this stuff up.
00:10:22I've got this divine authority, I'm suppressing my emotions, my feelings, all of my anger against
00:10:27what has happened to whoever is the person who got exposed.
00:10:32Well, suddenly there comes a point when the human can't bottle it up anymore.
00:10:36And when it comes out, I use the phrase, and it's probably rude, but I say it's basically
00:10:42constipation of the brain and diarrhea of the mouth.
00:10:45It just comes out, the people get the raw emotion that's inside of them with the filter of trying
00:10:55to be God's spokesperson or God's voice, God's mouth.
00:11:00I think she even, if I remember correctly in this thing that's called a sermon, I think
00:11:05she even used the phrase, thus saith the Lord.
00:11:07Oh, yeah.
00:11:08She basically said, this is God speaking through my mouth.
00:11:11And what's interesting is I believe her.
00:11:15I believe that she believes this because that's the cult mentality.
00:11:19I know others may disagree with me, but I think she does.
00:11:21But what's really sad for me, I did have the sad emotion you shared, but in a different
00:11:28way.
00:11:29I was one of the people in those pews in certain scenarios, and I know what it was like to be
00:11:34scolded for an entire hour for something that I didn't do.
00:11:38I have no control over.
00:11:39It has nothing to do with me.
00:11:41Somebody else got exposed.
00:11:42Somebody's brother should probably be in prison.
00:11:46All of this is bottling up inside of the person on stage.
00:11:50But me sitting there, I didn't bring my children to come sit, listen through this.
00:11:54I came to hear about Jesus, not this.
00:11:57So my question is, what's going on here?
00:12:00So if I can speculate, I want to be careful here because I'm, you know, we're just having
00:12:08a conversation here, and I'm going to share some perspectives that I have that go back
00:12:15historically in the book, in my book, one of the things I talk about, which I think was
00:12:21a seminal point of revelation or understanding for most of the IHOPers who read the book, which
00:12:30was a conversation I had had early on with a psychologist who asked me a question about
00:12:37what I thought Mike Bickle's greatest fear was.
00:12:41And I went down the typical road of things, you know, spiders, snakes, you know, other
00:12:47things, you know what I mean?
00:12:49And he came back and said, no, Mike Bickle's greatest fear is that he's ordinary.
00:12:54That moment was an epiphany for me because what it did is it contextualized a whole lot
00:13:05of behaviors that I witnessed for the next six years that made sense that were kind of
00:13:12like, what is this, right?
00:13:14Well, let's go then.
00:13:16You got Mike who has this need to be extraordinary, right?
00:13:20This need to be seen, as you talk about, as on a higher plane, you know what I mean?
00:13:28He separates himself out all the way through the years we were together by prophetic words.
00:13:36So he, you know, not only is he using what he claims is prophetic revelation that God gave
00:13:43him, but then he's got, you know, a group of prophetic guys that are reaffirming his specialness,
00:13:50right?
00:13:51And it's the transaction that I talk about in the book is that he sells, like all cult
00:13:58leaders do, his significance by saying, look at me, I'm holy, I'm unique, I'm distinct,
00:14:07I've been to the third heavens.
00:14:08I have open revelation for God.
00:14:11I have understanding and insight into things you don't.
00:14:14But if you want to feel special, come follow me because by linking yourself with me, by
00:14:22association, now you become special.
00:14:25That drove IHOP there.
00:14:26I've had so many of the IHOP kids and young adults who are the second reiteration because
00:14:34the KCFers, the Kansas City Fellowshipers went through this 20 years before and all
00:14:39walked through this process, right?
00:14:42Which was, we're all young and insecure and we want God to see us and love us and God to
00:14:48acknowledge that we're in this wholeheartedly and we love him with all our heart and we're
00:14:53special too, right?
00:14:55And you're so vulnerable.
00:14:57You're absolutely so vulnerable because you want to be affirmed.
00:15:00You want to be liked.
00:15:01You want to be loved.
00:15:02You want to be respected.
00:15:03I mean, all the things that the human soul craves, but you want God to give you that
00:15:09affirmation more than anyone else.
00:15:11And Mike's coming along and selling that saying, well, look at me.
00:15:15I'm that guy.
00:15:17And so, you know, link up with me and you can have this special destiny.
00:15:22And I think that was the kind of crash for a lot of the IHOPers going, wait a minute,
00:15:28I'm not special.
00:15:30I'm just ordinary.
00:15:31And that was, that's hard.
00:15:32You know what I mean?
00:15:33It's hard to, you know, most of us hit that at about 30, right?
00:15:36You get married, start having kids and like, okay, reality check here.
00:15:40I've got to get a job.
00:15:42I got to pay bills.
00:15:43And, you know, so you see all of that now in the Bickle family.
00:15:47And this is one of the things that I also tried to unpack in the book is the cultic mindset
00:15:55didn't start at KCF.
00:15:59The family operated that way, right?
00:16:02In other words, there was no shift.
00:16:08This was just Mike being Mike, right?
00:16:11You know, the way things race.
00:16:13So there's seven kids in the family.
00:16:15So I'll break this down.
00:16:16There's seven kids in the family.
00:16:18The oldest is a girl.
00:16:19And then right under Mike is another boy, Pat.
00:16:23Those two were what I call the truth tellers in the family.
00:16:28They called Mike on his BS.
00:16:31They would all, you know, if you ever sat in the conversations with me, Mike and Pat,
00:16:36I mean, Pat would just, no holes barred.
00:16:40Like, it was like, you know, WWE wrestling.
00:16:44I mean, those two brothers would just go at it.
00:16:46And Pat was just, you know, he just wasn't one to mince words.
00:16:51He would just let Mike have it, right?
00:16:54Then there's a set of twins who sort of aren't really on the grid.
00:16:58They've, you know, they've stayed very quiet.
00:17:00And then you have the two younger sisters, Tracy and Lisa.
00:17:04Those two were so young when their dad died
00:17:07that Mike sort of became the surrogate dad.
00:17:10And they became the cheerleaders for Mike.
00:17:14And they have the sycophant relationship with Mike.
00:17:19And they bought into this.
00:17:21And this is what I began to notice as the 80s went on.
00:17:25Is it started out that Mike was the special one, right?
00:17:30Mike had the special destiny.
00:17:32What it started evolving to with the two younger sisters
00:17:37was, no, the Bickle family has a special destiny, right?
00:17:43In other words, you know, they sort of hooked on to Mike.
00:17:48But it was bigger than Mike.
00:17:50You know, we all have it.
00:17:51The Bickle family is chosen.
00:17:54Now, what's interesting about this, for me,
00:17:58again, kind of unpacking this,
00:18:00and I think this is something that you've noticed
00:18:03in your world as well,
00:18:05this sort of worldview or mentality
00:18:09often comes from very broken people
00:18:12and very broken families, right?
00:18:16Alcoholic appearance, drug abuse, abandonment, right?
00:18:20In other words, the people that sort of fall into this trap,
00:18:25right, of I'm elite, I'm special,
00:18:28are people who grew up not being special, right?
00:18:33It's like, you know, they come into the church world
00:18:36and suddenly, you know, they want to change the narrative.
00:18:42And so they create this false narrative around themselves,
00:18:46right, that they're special.
00:18:47It's almost like they're fighting the demons
00:18:48of their childhood, right?
00:18:50All the shame, you know?
00:18:52I mean, the Bickle kids barely lived in the same house
00:18:55more than one year in a row.
00:18:57They were constantly moving.
00:18:59Dirty clothes, you know, parents that were both alcoholics,
00:19:04you know, disgusting things going on, bad stuff, right?
00:19:08But then circle the wagon,
00:19:12create this false narrative at school
00:19:14because we're all embarrassed about our family.
00:19:17And that whole dynamic got carried right into the church world.
00:19:23You know, the spinning, you know,
00:19:25the circling the wagons as we talk about,
00:19:27creating this false narrative,
00:19:29hiding the fact that, you know,
00:19:31our dads are drunk,
00:19:33our moms are drunk,
00:19:35you know, we're poor,
00:19:37you know, we can barely eat,
00:19:39you know, we're living,
00:19:40you know, nasty.
00:19:43And so we go to school and whatever.
00:19:45So that all got spun into the church world.
00:19:50So my take,
00:19:52and all that to say this,
00:19:54my gut feeling
00:19:57is that Lisa's struggling
00:20:00immensely
00:20:01with the fact that
00:20:05the family and Mike
00:20:07are no longer special.
00:20:08They've been dethroned.
00:20:09Right.
00:20:10And I think she's having
00:20:12a very hard time with this.
00:20:15Now, she won't admit that, right?
00:20:17Because when you're delusional
00:20:20or whatever, right,
00:20:21you don't want to deal
00:20:22with your own stuff.
00:20:23But how many times at our age
00:20:25have we looked back
00:20:28and seen and realized
00:20:30how preachers preached
00:20:32at their own demons?
00:20:34You know, I'm going with this, right?
00:20:36It's like,
00:20:36as you're talking about,
00:20:37you go to church
00:20:38and wham!
00:20:40You know what I mean?
00:20:40You're getting punched.
00:20:42You know what I mean?
00:20:43And thou shalt not
00:20:44and all the, you know,
00:20:46these extreme statements
00:20:47and, you know,
00:20:49it's just this energy, right?
00:20:51And I never understood it.
00:20:54I kind of thought
00:20:54it was cool at first.
00:20:55Like, wow,
00:20:56they're on fire for God, right?
00:20:58Then I got behind the curtain
00:21:00and realized that
00:21:03they're preaching
00:21:05about what they're struggling with.
00:21:06Right?
00:21:08And in some ways,
00:21:10I mean,
00:21:10I don't know if this is true,
00:21:12but it's what I imagine
00:21:14is the energy,
00:21:16the intense energy
00:21:18that you feel
00:21:19sitting in the pew
00:21:20is because the preachers
00:21:22preaching through
00:21:23their own demons
00:21:24are standing in front of them,
00:21:26pointing fingers at them, right?
00:21:27And it's like they're yelling
00:21:28through the little,
00:21:30you know,
00:21:30their own internal demons
00:21:32and it comes out at you
00:21:33like,
00:21:33oh my God,
00:21:34what is this?
00:21:35You know what I mean?
00:21:36This is just so intense,
00:21:38but it's because
00:21:38they're fighting
00:21:39their own inner stuff.
00:21:41That was my takeaway.
00:21:43When I listened to her talk,
00:21:46I went,
00:21:46this poor girl
00:21:48or woman
00:21:49is really struggling.
00:21:52Right?
00:21:52So this is,
00:21:53I believe it was
00:21:54as much about her
00:21:55as it was about Mike.
00:21:57Does that make sense?
00:21:58Absolutely.
00:21:59What's funny is
00:22:00whenever you're talking,
00:22:02my mind,
00:22:03I'm like deeply in tune
00:22:05with what you're saying
00:22:06and I'm trying to picture
00:22:08the audience
00:22:08who was never in that,
00:22:10in that upper tier.
00:22:12They would never understand.
00:22:13So as you were talking,
00:22:15I was trying to think
00:22:15of a good way
00:22:16to explain this.
00:22:17I am one of these
00:22:18great redneck
00:22:19do-it-yourselfers.
00:22:21I'll do,
00:22:21I'll do anything.
00:22:22I'll fix a car.
00:22:23I'll work on the electricity.
00:22:24I'll do anything.
00:22:25My wife will tell you
00:22:26I fix everything.
00:22:27But whenever,
00:22:29whenever I started
00:22:31doing some of the things
00:22:32to fix the house
00:22:34or whatever,
00:22:35my wife was the one
00:22:37who was basically
00:22:38my guardrails of safety.
00:22:41One of the things
00:22:42that I would do
00:22:42when I would change
00:22:43a receptacle in the wall,
00:22:46receptacles that go as bad,
00:22:47I don't shut the power off.
00:22:48Yes, exactly.
00:22:49Wire it live.
00:22:50I wire it live, man.
00:22:52Now,
00:22:53I have a cousin
00:22:54who is,
00:22:54I have a cousin
00:22:56who is a certified electrician
00:22:57who went to another family member
00:23:01and was doing 220
00:23:02with it live.
00:23:05And the family member said,
00:23:08you know that's dangerous, right?
00:23:09And he says,
00:23:10yeah, but you know,
00:23:11unless it goes through your heart,
00:23:12it won't kill you.
00:23:12Watch this.
00:23:13And he grabbed on two prongs
00:23:15with his thumb
00:23:15and index finger.
00:23:17It hurt his hand a little bit,
00:23:18but he didn't die.
00:23:19With 220.
00:23:19Wow.
00:23:20Anyway,
00:23:21when I got married,
00:23:23my wife was my anchor.
00:23:25She started saying,
00:23:26yes, but John,
00:23:27it's not just you
00:23:28that you have to think about.
00:23:29You have children
00:23:30that you need to provide for.
00:23:31If you die
00:23:32because you did the stupid thing,
00:23:34don't do this, John.
00:23:36Like putting the chair
00:23:36on top of the table
00:23:38to get up to the...
00:23:39Exactly.
00:23:40Get up there balancing.
00:23:42Now,
00:23:42that's a simple example
00:23:44of me having somebody
00:23:46who's grounding me.
00:23:47Yeah.
00:23:47Take these people
00:23:49who are in the upper tiers
00:23:50of a cult.
00:23:52They believe that they are
00:23:53the spiritual elite,
00:23:55and as the spiritual elite,
00:23:57they don't have the same guardrails
00:23:59of everybody else.
00:24:01Then combine that
00:24:02into an elite family.
00:24:05One person says,
00:24:06hey, I can do this electrical thing
00:24:08without shutting the power off.
00:24:09The other one's saying,
00:24:10well, that's a great idea.
00:24:12You ought to do more of these.
00:24:14I mean,
00:24:14they're spiraling out of control
00:24:16because they have nobody
00:24:17to say,
00:24:19do you realize
00:24:19that's not quite right?
00:24:21And that's how it works
00:24:23in the families.
00:24:23It isn't so much
00:24:24that one person comes up
00:24:26with this divine harebrained scheme.
00:24:29It's that they think as a unit
00:24:32and they're complementing
00:24:33each other's
00:24:34spiritual divine authority.
00:24:36One person rises to the top
00:24:38and he's the central figure.
00:24:39The other people are saying,
00:24:40oh, yeah,
00:24:41well, if you had that thought
00:24:42of spiritual,
00:24:43I wonder if that means
00:24:44something else.
00:24:45And then they go off
00:24:46into what they think it means.
00:24:48Well, the divine authority
00:24:49isn't hearing from God
00:24:50so much as he is hearing
00:24:51from the groupthink
00:24:52of the inner circle.
00:24:54And that's how this works.
00:24:56People who are near
00:24:57to William Branham,
00:24:58and I'm using Branham
00:24:59as my example
00:25:00because that's my frame of mind.
00:25:02I have heard stories
00:25:03of people of the inner circle
00:25:04talking about their experience
00:25:06for something
00:25:07that was allegedly supernatural.
00:25:09And what they describe
00:25:10is something
00:25:11that is so explainable.
00:25:14But the cult leader, Branham,
00:25:16started hearing what they said
00:25:18and started thinking,
00:25:19oh, well,
00:25:19that must be
00:25:20this wonderful thing
00:25:21God is doing.
00:25:22It's fully explainable,
00:25:24but it spirals out of control
00:25:25because there's nobody to say,
00:25:27do you really think
00:25:28God's telling you
00:25:29to do that stupid thing?
00:25:30Well, and then there's
00:25:33this other dynamic
00:25:34which is not unique
00:25:35to the church world, right?
00:25:38Which is family members
00:25:40milking the,
00:25:44what do you call it,
00:25:45the prominence,
00:25:47the exposure
00:25:48of one of their siblings
00:25:51or parents?
00:25:52I mean,
00:25:53how many presidents
00:25:54do we know
00:25:54that had brothers?
00:25:55Or in the case
00:26:00of the last president,
00:26:02family members
00:26:03like brothers and sons
00:26:04all taking advantage
00:26:07of the one sibling's
00:26:09status and stuff, right?
00:26:12And it's like,
00:26:12you know,
00:26:13we're going to take advantage
00:26:14of this
00:26:14whether it is
00:26:15to gain status ourselves
00:26:16or to gain stuff ourselves.
00:26:19I've seen it
00:26:20in the church world, right?
00:26:21It's like,
00:26:22you know,
00:26:23it's like you have
00:26:24the pastor's family
00:26:25and then suddenly
00:26:27all the siblings, right?
00:26:28And everybody around it
00:26:30has elite status.
00:26:32Even though they're,
00:26:33it's the one guy
00:26:35or the one woman
00:26:36that's the,
00:26:37you know,
00:26:37that's sort of
00:26:38the drawing power.
00:26:38Everybody else latches on.
00:26:40I watched,
00:26:41I was in the music business
00:26:42for years.
00:26:43I mean,
00:26:44it was incredible,
00:26:46you know,
00:26:46how many people
00:26:48were leeches
00:26:49and lived off the star,
00:26:51right?
00:26:52So proximity
00:26:53becomes a thing
00:26:54and so you see
00:26:55this,
00:26:56you know,
00:26:56you saw it
00:26:56with the Branham,
00:26:57you know,
00:26:58well,
00:26:58why did Billy Branham,
00:27:00why was Billy Branham
00:27:01a something,
00:27:03right?
00:27:04In other words,
00:27:05would he have been
00:27:05a something
00:27:06if he didn't have
00:27:07a famous dad?
00:27:08Like,
00:27:08would have anybody
00:27:09ever heard of him
00:27:10or would he have been
00:27:10a pastor of 50 people
00:27:12in a little country
00:27:13church somewhere
00:27:14and nobody would have
00:27:15ever heard of him,
00:27:16right?
00:27:17That's what I'm saying.
00:27:18There's this thing
00:27:19that happens
00:27:20with either,
00:27:22primarily with families,
00:27:23though,
00:27:24right?
00:27:24It's like,
00:27:25there's this,
00:27:26you know,
00:27:27well,
00:27:27it's,
00:27:28it may be him
00:27:29but it's really
00:27:30a wee
00:27:30and so I'm special
00:27:32by,
00:27:34you know,
00:27:34by virtual blood
00:27:35or something.
00:27:35I mean,
00:27:36so that's where
00:27:37it gets a little dicey
00:27:40but it's,
00:27:40again,
00:27:41not unique
00:27:41to the church world.
00:27:42It's just a human
00:27:43dynamic
00:27:45that,
00:27:47because,
00:27:47what drives it?
00:27:48We all have this need,
00:27:50you know,
00:27:52to be valued.
00:27:52We all want
00:27:54some sense
00:27:55of self-worth,
00:27:56right?
00:27:56And in our culture,
00:27:58we get self-worth
00:27:59from status and stuff,
00:28:00you know?
00:28:01And so it's an addiction
00:28:03in a way
00:28:04but it's sad
00:28:06in the case
00:28:08of Mike's
00:28:10two youngest sisters,
00:28:11they're nothing
00:28:12without him.
00:28:13The whole Hope City
00:28:14dynamic happens
00:28:15because of IHOP
00:28:16and IHOP's
00:28:17able to fund it,
00:28:19right?
00:28:19So you take the
00:28:20IHOP financial machine
00:28:22away from Hope City,
00:28:24they start struggling
00:28:24financially,
00:28:25right?
00:28:25none of them
00:28:28have the dynamic
00:28:29preaching capacity
00:28:31or drawing power
00:28:32that Mike did.
00:28:33So suddenly,
00:28:34now it's a reality check.
00:28:36You know,
00:28:36it's like,
00:28:37you know,
00:28:37and this is what's painful.
00:28:40Man,
00:28:40I tell you,
00:28:41I deal with,
00:28:42I've dealt with this
00:28:42for 40 years,
00:28:44especially in music
00:28:45and athletics,
00:28:47is when your run
00:28:49is done
00:28:49and you suddenly
00:28:51become nobody.
00:28:54Yeah.
00:28:54It's a problem.
00:28:57I have had to walk
00:28:58a lot of people
00:28:59off of a lot
00:29:00of dark cliffs,
00:29:02you know what I mean?
00:29:03Because of the fact
00:29:04that they started off
00:29:05very young
00:29:05and very famous
00:29:07and by 40,
00:29:08we're done.
00:29:09Or even in some places
00:29:10in football,
00:29:11you're done
00:29:11in three and a half years,
00:29:13so you're gone by 30,
00:29:14right?
00:29:15It's like,
00:29:16you know,
00:29:17you're on TV one minute
00:29:18and then next minute
00:29:19you're at Walmart
00:29:20and nobody even knows
00:29:21who you are,
00:29:22right?
00:29:22I was at Walmart
00:29:23the other day
00:29:24and the guys
00:29:25shaking my hand
00:29:26were the Chiefs players
00:29:28from the 1970s,
00:29:30you know what I mean?
00:29:31That are greeters
00:29:32at Walmart
00:29:32and they have to tell you
00:29:34who they are.
00:29:36Oh,
00:29:36hi,
00:29:36I'm Mike Garrett.
00:29:37I was an all-pro
00:29:38running back
00:29:39for the Chiefs.
00:29:40Wow,
00:29:40nice to meet you,
00:29:41Mike.
00:29:41I would have never known.
00:29:42Nobody would.
00:29:42They were all walking
00:29:43past him,
00:29:44right?
00:29:45And so,
00:29:45it's like that
00:29:46in the ministry world
00:29:47as well,
00:29:48right?
00:29:48And so,
00:29:49you have these two sisters
00:29:50who outside of Mike,
00:29:53no one knows their name
00:29:56and so they end up
00:29:58developing this identity,
00:30:00this sense of self-worth,
00:30:02this sense of,
00:30:03you know,
00:30:04special calling,
00:30:05special status,
00:30:07you know,
00:30:08the sister above Lisa,
00:30:10she's been selling
00:30:11herself as the link
00:30:13to Mike,
00:30:14right?
00:30:14She's gotten so many,
00:30:17you know,
00:30:18you know,
00:30:18one of the big complaints
00:30:19I've heard for years
00:30:20is that the minute
00:30:21a wealthier,
00:30:22prominent person
00:30:23walked into IOP,
00:30:25she was the first one
00:30:26over there
00:30:27introducing herself,
00:30:28you know,
00:30:29basically selling
00:30:30access to Mike.
00:30:32Well,
00:30:32I'm the favorite sister
00:30:33and,
00:30:34you know,
00:30:34and,
00:30:35you know,
00:30:35because they were all
00:30:36living off of donations,
00:30:38you know what I mean?
00:30:39And it was like,
00:30:40well,
00:30:41you know,
00:30:41help support me
00:30:42and,
00:30:43you know,
00:30:43me and Mike,
00:30:44we're like this,
00:30:45right?
00:30:45And you see this thing
00:30:47and people were like,
00:30:48yuck,
00:30:48you know what I mean?
00:30:49This is yucky,
00:30:50but nobody ever calls
00:30:51anybody on it,
00:30:52right?
00:30:53Because they don't want
00:30:53to be rejected.
00:30:55So you see all this,
00:30:56but I'm sure you watched
00:30:57it all the,
00:30:57you know,
00:30:58the hierarchies,
00:30:59the groveling,
00:31:01you know,
00:31:01the backstabbing
00:31:03behind the scenes,
00:31:04all to,
00:31:05you know,
00:31:06to climb this little ladder
00:31:08to get close
00:31:08to the chosen one.
00:31:11Have you ever wondered
00:31:11how the Pentecostal movement
00:31:13started
00:31:13or how the progression
00:31:15of modern Pentecostalism
00:31:16transitioned through
00:31:18the latter reign,
00:31:19charismatic,
00:31:20and other fringe movements
00:31:21into the new apostolic
00:31:22reformation?
00:31:24You can learn this and more
00:31:25on William Branham
00:31:26Historical Research's
00:31:27website,
00:31:28william-branham.org.
00:31:31On the books page
00:31:32of the website,
00:31:33you can find
00:31:33the compiled research
00:31:35of John Collins,
00:31:36Charles Paisley,
00:31:37Stephen Montgomery,
00:31:39John McKinnon,
00:31:39and others
00:31:40with links
00:31:41to the paper,
00:31:42audio,
00:31:42and digital versions
00:31:44of each book.
00:31:45You can also find
00:31:46resources and documentation
00:31:48on various people
00:31:49and topics
00:31:50related to those movements.
00:31:52If you want to contribute
00:31:53to the cause,
00:31:54you can support the podcast
00:31:55by clicking
00:31:56the Contribute button
00:31:57at the top.
00:31:58And as always,
00:31:59be sure to like
00:32:00and subscribe
00:32:01to the audio
00:32:02or video version
00:32:03that you're listening
00:32:03to or watching.
00:32:05On behalf of
00:32:05William Branham Historical Research,
00:32:07we want to thank you
00:32:08for your support.
00:32:10So,
00:32:10I see this
00:32:11from a different perspective,
00:32:12however.
00:32:13I actually feel sorry
00:32:14for her
00:32:15when I listen to this
00:32:16for this reason.
00:32:18Yes,
00:32:19everything that we have said
00:32:20about the upper tier
00:32:22of the cult is true
00:32:23and the cult royalty mindset,
00:32:26that is all true.
00:32:27But,
00:32:29remember,
00:32:29within the family unit,
00:32:32you have a central figure,
00:32:33you have all of the family
00:32:34that's supportive.
00:32:36Those family members
00:32:37are under the mind control
00:32:38of the central figure.
00:32:39Whether they realize it
00:32:40or not,
00:32:40they are.
00:32:42And even though
00:32:42they have this ambition
00:32:44to remain
00:32:44in the divine royalty,
00:32:47and now being ousted
00:32:49from that royalty,
00:32:50there's this human nature
00:32:51to try to get back into it.
00:32:53The cult mindset
00:32:54plays another factor
00:32:55that's sad to me.
00:32:57It really is sad.
00:32:59So,
00:32:59this is a cult
00:33:00that proclaimed
00:33:02that there would be
00:33:03this coming
00:33:04end of days revival.
00:33:05they're the ones
00:33:06to bring it in.
00:33:07All of the cult mindset
00:33:08and theology
00:33:09that came with IHOP's KC,
00:33:11which was very similar
00:33:12to Branhamism.
00:33:14And then,
00:33:15suddenly,
00:33:16with the fall
00:33:17of Mike Bickle,
00:33:18the possibility
00:33:20of everything
00:33:21that had been prophesied
00:33:22that Bickle would lead,
00:33:24all of that
00:33:24crumbled with him.
00:33:26So,
00:33:26there is no way
00:33:27in which
00:33:28the roots
00:33:29of the theology
00:33:30can come to its fruition.
00:33:31Yet,
00:33:32in the cult mindset,
00:33:35the cult
00:33:35programmed mind
00:33:37doesn't realize
00:33:38that now
00:33:39the success
00:33:40of the prophecies
00:33:41of all of our history
00:33:43are now failures.
00:33:44They don't realize that.
00:33:45Instead,
00:33:46the brain,
00:33:47through cognitive dissonance,
00:33:48tries to reconcile it.
00:33:50So,
00:33:50how do you reconcile
00:33:51the unreconcilable?
00:33:53Whenever the leader
00:33:53has fallen from grace,
00:33:55he should never,
00:33:56ever be back
00:33:57into his place.
00:33:58How do you reconcile it?
00:33:59Well,
00:33:59didn't,
00:34:00I mean,
00:34:01if I understand it right,
00:34:02after Branham died,
00:34:04didn't people think
00:34:05he was going to resurrect?
00:34:06That's exactly,
00:34:07so that's the brain
00:34:08trying to reconcile
00:34:09every prophecy
00:34:10he had
00:34:12that required him
00:34:13to be alive
00:34:14for it to happen.
00:34:15Right.
00:34:15The brain tries to reconcile,
00:34:17well,
00:34:17how do you do this?
00:34:18He must have to rise
00:34:19from the grave.
00:34:20That's what's going to happen.
00:34:21So,
00:34:21would you say,
00:34:22because this is,
00:34:22I'm tracking with you here,
00:34:24in some ways,
00:34:25this was an attempted
00:34:27resurrection.
00:34:28In many ways.
00:34:29She's basically
00:34:30trying to resurrect
00:34:31Mike back into
00:34:33a position.
00:34:34Absolutely.
00:34:35That's why I sympathize
00:34:37with this.
00:34:37I feel so sorry
00:34:38for not just her,
00:34:40but all of the people,
00:34:41because I was in
00:34:42that frame of mind.
00:34:43We had to have
00:34:43a resurrected Branham
00:34:45to fulfill
00:34:45what all would have
00:34:47failed with him.
00:34:48The same thing
00:34:48is happening
00:34:49in IHOP KC.
00:34:50IHOP KC
00:34:51cannot go through
00:34:52with the rest
00:34:53of its end-of-days
00:34:54predictions
00:34:54without Mike Bickle.
00:34:56How do you do this?
00:34:57You're going to have
00:34:58people,
00:34:58not just her,
00:34:59you're going to have
00:35:00others that stand up
00:35:01and say,
00:35:01God has spoken to me.
00:35:03We need Mike Bickle back,
00:35:04because how else
00:35:05can we have this,
00:35:06all of this being fulfilled?
00:35:08You know,
00:35:08Rick Joyner came out
00:35:10a month ago
00:35:10and said that.
00:35:12Right?
00:35:12So this is interesting
00:35:14because back in October
00:35:16of, what was it,
00:35:172023 when this all broke,
00:35:20you know,
00:35:20there was all this discussion
00:35:22about what Mike would do.
00:35:23And I told the people
00:35:25close to me,
00:35:26I said,
00:35:27two years.
00:35:28And they said,
00:35:28what do you mean?
00:35:29I said,
00:35:29just watch.
00:35:30I would bet
00:35:32he stays underground
00:35:34for 24 months
00:35:35because he'll feel
00:35:37that's,
00:35:38you know,
00:35:38sort of,
00:35:39I did my punishment
00:35:40and I'm out
00:35:42for 24 months.
00:35:43But he can't not.
00:35:45Right?
00:35:46It's like he's addicted
00:35:47to the,
00:35:50you know,
00:35:51he needs people
00:35:54to follow him
00:35:55if you know
00:35:55where I'm going
00:35:56with this,
00:35:56right?
00:35:57He needs that
00:35:58group around him
00:36:00that idolizes him,
00:36:02you know,
00:36:02that whatever.
00:36:04So I didn't think
00:36:06it was possible
00:36:07for him to stay silent.
00:36:08Well,
00:36:08then Rick says
00:36:09this thing a month ago.
00:36:11Then now Lisa here
00:36:13on Sunday
00:36:14and I'm like,
00:36:15okay,
00:36:16what's going on here,
00:36:17right?
00:36:17It's like,
00:36:18let's resurrect Mike,
00:36:20right?
00:36:20We need Mike back.
00:36:22You know,
00:36:22there's all these prophecies
00:36:23out there
00:36:24like you're saying,
00:36:25right?
00:36:26You know,
00:36:26there's all this stuff
00:36:27out there.
00:36:28We need Mike
00:36:28for the end time revival
00:36:30to happen.
00:36:31And you're like,
00:36:32wow,
00:36:32what happened to God?
00:36:34What happened
00:36:34to the Holy Spirit here?
00:36:36I thought they were
00:36:37in charge of all this.
00:36:38You know,
00:36:39it's just this thing
00:36:42where we're so focused
00:36:43on humans.
00:36:45You know,
00:36:46and that's something,
00:36:47this again,
00:36:48I don't want to slam
00:36:49on the Pentecostals,
00:36:50but that's a very
00:36:51Pentecostal mindset,
00:36:54which we've all talked about.
00:36:56We call it
00:36:56the man of God mindset,
00:36:58right?
00:36:59Everything happens
00:37:01through the man of God.
00:37:03Yeah.
00:37:04Which is,
00:37:04you know,
00:37:05a lot of Old Testament
00:37:06stories,
00:37:08right?
00:37:08The Davids,
00:37:09the Mo,
00:37:09right?
00:37:09There's this singular figure
00:37:11who's the man of God,
00:37:13the man of the moment,
00:37:14the man of divine purpose,
00:37:16and they're the ones
00:37:17that are going to bring
00:37:17this thing.
00:37:18Well,
00:37:19and there's also the issue,
00:37:20I know,
00:37:21I haven't listened to everybody
00:37:22who's said anything
00:37:24about this speech,
00:37:26but I know other people
00:37:27have been talking about
00:37:28the fact that
00:37:29there's this pardon
00:37:31that she said
00:37:31came from God.
00:37:32And if you really think
00:37:35about what's happening here,
00:37:37whenever somebody
00:37:38is that level
00:37:39of spiritual elite
00:37:40and something so horrific
00:37:42has happened
00:37:43and they have been
00:37:44exposed for it,
00:37:46the natural human
00:37:47can't put up with this.
00:37:49Inwardly,
00:37:50if this person
00:37:51is in a leadership position
00:37:54and may come in contact
00:37:56with other young females,
00:37:58I would say,
00:37:59heck no,
00:38:00you're not going to let
00:38:01my daughter near this person.
00:38:02So what you have to do
00:38:04is you have to put it
00:38:05into the spiritual realm.
00:38:07And once something
00:38:08has entered into
00:38:09the quote-unquote
00:38:10spiritual realm
00:38:11by these groups,
00:38:12it's untouchable.
00:38:13God has issued the pardon.
00:38:15You'll notice
00:38:16that there's no repentance
00:38:17at all.
00:38:18There is no method
00:38:20for repenting
00:38:20for something like this.
00:38:22Bickle,
00:38:22as a cult leader,
00:38:24a central figure,
00:38:24he's never going
00:38:25to come forward
00:38:26and say,
00:38:27yes,
00:38:27I did all of these things.
00:38:28I'm sorry.
00:38:29I'm going to go through
00:38:30a period of being
00:38:31completely isolated,
00:38:33stripped from power,
00:38:34and I'm going to sit alone
00:38:35because I did a bad thing.
00:38:37Nobody's going to
00:38:38watch this happen.
00:38:39It just won't.
00:38:40But once they put it
00:38:41into the spiritual realm,
00:38:43now everything
00:38:44that comes as a consequence
00:38:45can happen spiritually.
00:38:47Well,
00:38:47he went through
00:38:48spiritual isolation,
00:38:49and now he's been
00:38:50restored by God
00:38:51or whatever
00:38:52is the spiritual thing.
00:38:54And what saddens me
00:38:55is the rank-and-file member,
00:38:58deep inside,
00:38:58they know it's wrong.
00:38:59Deep inside,
00:39:00every human wants
00:39:01to do the right thing.
00:39:03But once you put it
00:39:04into the spiritual realm,
00:39:05and you mentioned it,
00:39:07this Pentecostal-style thing,
00:39:09he's the man of God.
00:39:10You can't touch him.
00:39:11He's untouchable.
00:39:12That needs to stop.
00:39:14Yeah.
00:39:14That's dangerous.
00:39:15Let me throw
00:39:17something else out at you.
00:39:18I'll tell you the thing
00:39:19that was
00:39:20what triggered me,
00:39:24if you want to.
00:39:24I guess that's kind of
00:39:25the word of the hour
00:39:26these days.
00:39:27I got triggered.
00:39:28Um, you know,
00:39:30because I, you know,
00:39:31I, like I said,
00:39:32I initially cringed, right?
00:39:34I was just like,
00:39:35oh, no, right?
00:39:37But the one thing
00:39:38that got me,
00:39:39because to me,
00:39:40it's emblematic
00:39:42or symbolic
00:39:43of the cult person's mindset.
00:39:46I haven't listened
00:39:48to the accusations,
00:39:50and I don't want to know.
00:39:53Right?
00:39:53So, here you are
00:39:55with somebody
00:39:56who's getting ready
00:39:58to slap everyone around
00:40:01that opposes
00:40:02her brother
00:40:04who doesn't even know
00:40:06what the issues are.
00:40:08You know what it reminded me of?
00:40:09You know,
00:40:10when your kids are little
00:40:11and they don't want
00:40:12to listen to you
00:40:13and they stick their fingers
00:40:14in there
00:40:14and they go,
00:40:14na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.
00:40:16Right?
00:40:17I mean,
00:40:17that sounds terrible,
00:40:18but like I'm driving
00:40:19and it's like Lisa's
00:40:20stuck her fingers
00:40:21in her ears
00:40:22and went,
00:40:24na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na.
00:40:25But again,
00:40:26that,
00:40:27you find
00:40:29that same
00:40:30mindset
00:40:31with people
00:40:32who follow
00:40:33cult leaders.
00:40:34Right?
00:40:34They don't want
00:40:35to listen.
00:40:35Don't bring me facts.
00:40:37I don't want to know.
00:40:38I just want
00:40:39my bias
00:40:40confirmed.
00:40:41Right?
00:40:43You know,
00:40:43don't challenge me.
00:40:45Right?
00:40:45Don't tell me
00:40:46the truth
00:40:47because I'm not
00:40:50going to listen.
00:40:51and she
00:40:52completely
00:40:53shut herself
00:40:54off.
00:40:55So,
00:40:55it was,
00:40:56that bothered me.
00:40:58I'm like,
00:40:58wait a minute.
00:40:59You are now
00:41:00going to go
00:41:01on the offensive
00:41:02and you're going
00:41:02to start attacking
00:41:03and you don't
00:41:04even know
00:41:05what the playing
00:41:05field is?
00:41:06You don't even
00:41:06know what the
00:41:07issues are here?
00:41:08And even worse,
00:41:10you don't want
00:41:11to know.
00:41:11Like,
00:41:11you're telling
00:41:12everyone,
00:41:13I don't want
00:41:13to know.
00:41:15Well,
00:41:15that's cultic.
00:41:17Like,
00:41:17if there isn't
00:41:18more of a
00:41:20glaring,
00:41:21cultic,
00:41:22you know,
00:41:22I'm a,
00:41:23you know,
00:41:24you know,
00:41:25I'm a,
00:41:25I'm a member
00:41:26of a cult.
00:41:27That's it.
00:41:28Well,
00:41:28and ironically,
00:41:29that's the one
00:41:30thing that she
00:41:31said that made
00:41:32me start to feel
00:41:32sorry for her
00:41:33specifically.
00:41:34because I truly
00:41:36believe that.
00:41:36I truly believe
00:41:37that she has
00:41:38ignored all of
00:41:39the stories.
00:41:40Whenever you're
00:41:40in the cult
00:41:41mindset,
00:41:41one of the
00:41:42things,
00:41:42if you've
00:41:42never been
00:41:43in this,
00:41:43you don't
00:41:43understand.
00:41:44If you read
00:41:45Dr. Stephen
00:41:46Hassan's
00:41:46Combating Cult
00:41:47Mind Control,
00:41:48he explains this
00:41:48a little bit,
00:41:49but I'll use
00:41:51myself as an
00:41:52example.
00:41:53I had never
00:41:53heard rock and
00:41:54roll until I
00:41:55had,
00:41:56until I was
00:41:5739 years old,
00:41:5837 years old,
00:41:59because I was in
00:42:00the cult,
00:42:01we weren't allowed
00:42:01to listen to it,
00:42:02and I listened
00:42:04to it for the
00:42:04first time,
00:42:0539 years.
00:42:07I have had
00:42:07friends who
00:42:08asked me,
00:42:09who called me
00:42:10out on this,
00:42:10they said,
00:42:11John,
00:42:11that's impossible.
00:42:12You go to the
00:42:13store,
00:42:13you hear it.
00:42:14You go to the
00:42:14mall,
00:42:15you hear it.
00:42:15Everywhere you
00:42:16go,
00:42:16you're going to
00:42:16hear it.
00:42:17How did you
00:42:17not hear it?
00:42:18Well,
00:42:19there's this
00:42:19mental technique
00:42:20of mental
00:42:21blocking,
00:42:22chanting,
00:42:23there's different
00:42:23routines for
00:42:24different cults
00:42:24and different
00:42:25ways of
00:42:26programmed heads.
00:42:28In my head,
00:42:29whenever I would
00:42:30go into a place
00:42:31that had this,
00:42:31there was a
00:42:33specific song
00:42:34that I would
00:42:34just tune in
00:42:34my head,
00:42:35and I literally
00:42:36tuned it out,
00:42:37so I literally
00:42:37did not hear
00:42:38this music
00:42:39until I was
00:42:4037 years old.
00:42:42There are people
00:42:42who are programmed
00:42:43so deeply
00:42:44that they do
00:42:46actually tune
00:42:47everything out.
00:42:47I believe her.
00:42:49I believe that
00:42:49that is the
00:42:50case.
00:42:51The problem
00:42:52with her being
00:42:53in a position
00:42:53of leadership
00:42:54and doing this,
00:42:55however,
00:42:56is that it is
00:42:57setting up the
00:42:58stage where
00:42:58what if,
00:43:00and this is
00:43:00hypothetical,
00:43:01I'm not
00:43:01accusing anybody
00:43:02of anything,
00:43:03but what if
00:43:03another leader
00:43:04steps in there
00:43:05that is literally
00:43:06starting to kill
00:43:06people?
00:43:08The same exact
00:43:09rules apply.
00:43:10He's got a
00:43:11divine forgiveness,
00:43:12yes, he's
00:43:12killing people,
00:43:13but he has a
00:43:14divine forgiveness,
00:43:15this is allowable
00:43:16by God,
00:43:17I'm not going
00:43:18to look at it,
00:43:19the church is
00:43:19never supposed
00:43:20to investigate it.
00:43:22The rules that
00:43:23was laid down
00:43:24in this speech,
00:43:25which I did listen
00:43:26to every single
00:43:26one of them,
00:43:27she laid out
00:43:28the groundwork
00:43:29for a leader
00:43:30who has
00:43:31absolutely no
00:43:32accountability.
00:43:34And that,
00:43:34for me,
00:43:34that is the
00:43:35biggest issue
00:43:35of this whole
00:43:36thing.
00:43:37There was
00:43:38little accountability
00:43:39before,
00:43:40but after this,
00:43:42everybody who
00:43:42stayed with her
00:43:43and believes
00:43:44that this is
00:43:45this divine
00:43:46thing from God,
00:43:47now the
00:43:47accountability
00:43:48is actually
00:43:49less than it
00:43:49was before
00:43:50Mike Bickle
00:43:51was ousted.
00:43:51I've been,
00:43:54I want to
00:43:56be careful
00:43:56because I
00:43:57don't want
00:43:57to name
00:43:57drop,
00:43:58but at the
00:43:58same time,
00:43:59I think I
00:44:00probably need
00:44:00to say
00:44:00this person's
00:44:01name.
00:44:02I've had a
00:44:02bit of a
00:44:03conflict with
00:44:04a guy here
00:44:04in Kansas
00:44:05City named
00:44:05Malachi O'Brien.
00:44:08Malachi is
00:44:09very social
00:44:12media savvy,
00:44:13you know,
00:44:14and he was
00:44:15in the
00:44:15Southern
00:44:15Baptist
00:44:16thing.
00:44:17He's been
00:44:18probably the
00:44:19most outspoken
00:44:21voice saying
00:44:24that there's
00:44:26a spirit of
00:44:27accusation
00:44:28that's entered
00:44:29the church
00:44:30world,
00:44:31right?
00:44:31And so he's
00:44:32actually just
00:44:32come out with
00:44:33a book
00:44:34basically
00:44:35condemning
00:44:36everyone and
00:44:37anyone who
00:44:39brings up
00:44:40anything negative
00:44:41about a leader,
00:44:43right?
00:44:43And he calls
00:44:44it the spirit
00:44:44of accusation,
00:44:45right?
00:44:46And because all
00:44:47these various
00:44:47scandals are
00:44:48coming out right
00:44:49now,
00:44:49in his mind,
00:44:51a spirit of
00:44:52accusation has
00:44:53been unleashed,
00:44:54right?
00:44:56It's a devil,
00:44:56it's a demon,
00:44:57and it's came to
00:44:58destroy the church
00:44:59and we have to
00:45:00fight against it.
00:45:03And I said to,
00:45:06I've tried to
00:45:06communicate to
00:45:08him that it's
00:45:10interesting to me
00:45:11that that's how
00:45:12he thinks.
00:45:12I was explaining
00:45:13to him,
00:45:13I said,
00:45:14you know,
00:45:15you know,
00:45:15I've spent 40
00:45:16years working
00:45:17with people in
00:45:18the NFL
00:45:18and every
00:45:20Monday after
00:45:22a game,
00:45:22win or lose,
00:45:23everybody does
00:45:26the same thing.
00:45:26They break down
00:45:27in their position
00:45:28groups and they
00:45:28watch film.
00:45:30And what do they
00:45:31do when they
00:45:32watch film?
00:45:33They analyze
00:45:34every play,
00:45:36right?
00:45:36Now, the two
00:45:39words that I'd
00:45:40like to kind
00:45:41of compare,
00:45:42critique and
00:45:44criticism,
00:45:46right?
00:45:47In my mind,
00:45:48and again,
00:45:48I'm generalizing
00:45:49here,
00:45:50criticism has
00:45:53an intent to
00:45:54tear people
00:45:54down.
00:45:55You know,
00:45:55Jesus talked
00:45:56about the power
00:45:57of life and
00:45:58death in the
00:45:58tongue.
00:45:59That's death.
00:46:00I'm criticizing
00:46:01you, John,
00:46:02because I want
00:46:02to put you in
00:46:03your place.
00:46:04I want to tear
00:46:05you down.
00:46:05I want to make
00:46:06you feel bad.
00:46:07I don't think
00:46:08that's Jesus
00:46:09heart at all.
00:46:11Critique, on
00:46:11the other hand,
00:46:13which is what
00:46:14happens in the
00:46:15NFL, in your
00:46:16position groups,
00:46:17we critique our
00:46:20blocking, our
00:46:21routes, our
00:46:22timing, right?
00:46:23Why?
00:46:24Because in
00:46:25critique, your
00:46:26focus is on what
00:46:27do we do to get
00:46:28better, right?
00:46:30How do we
00:46:31improve?
00:46:32In the business
00:46:33world, we have a
00:46:34phrase called a
00:46:34post-mortem.
00:46:36You know, a
00:46:36sales process, you
00:46:40know, that we
00:46:40worked three months
00:46:41trying to get
00:46:42somebody's business
00:46:43and we failed.
00:46:44What do we do?
00:46:45We sit down and
00:46:46we do a post-mortem
00:46:48and we critique
00:46:49everything that we
00:46:50did.
00:46:51Where did we
00:46:52fail, right?
00:46:53It's the same
00:46:54thing with product
00:46:55or implementations,
00:46:57right?
00:46:57Whether you're
00:46:58building something
00:46:59or you're repairing
00:47:00something and you
00:47:02aren't successful,
00:47:03you fail.
00:47:03What do you do?
00:47:04You critique it.
00:47:05You analyze it.
00:47:06The whole focus is
00:47:08on how do we do
00:47:08better.
00:47:09And I think these
00:47:10guys in the
00:47:11ministry, one, I
00:47:12think they got
00:47:13soft skin.
00:47:15You know what I
00:47:15mean?
00:47:15I think we got a
00:47:17bunch of wusses in
00:47:18the ministry world
00:47:19that if they were in
00:47:21the business world or
00:47:23the athletic world or
00:47:24just about any other
00:47:25sector would be
00:47:27critiqued all the
00:47:29time, right?
00:47:29because it's all
00:47:30about performance.
00:47:32Every company does
00:47:33it.
00:47:33Every organization
00:47:34does it.
00:47:35Every team does it.
00:47:36But in the church, we
00:47:37can't do that.
00:47:38That's not biblical.
00:47:40And I'm like, wait a
00:47:41minute.
00:47:42Do you don't think
00:47:43Jesus was critiquing
00:47:44people?
00:47:46He called the
00:47:47Pharisees whitewashed
00:47:48sepulchers.
00:47:50Oh, but did Jesus have a
00:47:52spirit of accusation?
00:47:54Right?
00:47:55You see, we're in
00:47:57this really weird,
00:47:59absurd place right
00:48:00now.
00:48:01So I've tried to
00:48:02challenge Malachi, and
00:48:03of course, he just
00:48:04puts his fingers in
00:48:06his ears.
00:48:07He doesn't want to
00:48:09hear another
00:48:10perspective on this.
00:48:12But I think critique
00:48:13is absolutely vital for
00:48:15the success of the
00:48:15church.
00:48:17Right?
00:48:18You know, whether
00:48:19it's how we run our
00:48:21church or our
00:48:22community, or we deal
00:48:24with leaders, and
00:48:25Mike got critiqued.
00:48:27It wasn't a spirit of
00:48:28accusation.
00:48:29Mike got critiqued.
00:48:31This is what you said.
00:48:33This is, you know, this
00:48:34was the goal.
00:48:35You said you wanted
00:48:36this kind of thing.
00:48:38You didn't live up to
00:48:39your own message here.
00:48:42Right?
00:48:42We're critiquing you,
00:48:44Mike.
00:48:44You fell short.
00:48:46Now, if Mike has got a
00:48:49right heart, which I
00:48:51haven't seen yet, he
00:48:52would say, you know,
00:48:54what?
00:48:56You've confronted me.
00:48:58I've seen the error of
00:49:00my ways.
00:49:02I've gone and got help
00:49:04here.
00:49:05You know what I mean?
00:49:06I'm working on this, and
00:49:08I will do better.
00:49:10Right?
00:49:10This is something, again,
00:49:12you know, you and I talk
00:49:13about cultural things.
00:49:15You know, the shift.
00:49:17Our parents'
00:49:17generation.
00:49:18We had a president from
00:49:20Kansas City.
00:49:22Harry Truman.
00:49:23Right?
00:49:24World War II mindset.
00:49:26You know what it was?
00:49:27His famous phrase,
00:49:29Buck stops here.
00:49:31Yeah.
00:49:32Right?
00:49:34It's on me.
00:49:36That used to be the
00:49:38standard of manhood.
00:49:39Right?
00:49:39That used to be what made
00:49:41you a real man.
00:49:42A real man was, you know
00:49:43what?
00:49:44I own up to that.
00:49:46I'll do better.
00:49:48Now, it's their fault.
00:49:50I'm a victim.
00:49:52They did it to me.
00:49:53Right?
00:49:53It's always everyone else's
00:49:55fault, and that's seeped into
00:49:56the church world now.
00:49:59And so now, it's not only, it's
00:50:00not my fault.
00:50:02I didn't do it.
00:50:04And you have a spirit of
00:50:06accusation.
00:50:06So the way we shut down
00:50:08critique is we call you an
00:50:12accuser of the brethren.
00:50:13And to me, that's dangerous.
00:50:16Right?
00:50:17In other words, if we fall
00:50:18into that, we are going to
00:50:21go down a road of utter
00:50:22deception because we will
00:50:26never critique ourselves.
00:50:27Right?
00:50:27Absolutely.
00:50:29You know, I've read through
00:50:31the comments, and people get
00:50:32upset whenever I show my
00:50:34sympathy for leaders in IHOP,
00:50:36KC, or other cults.
00:50:38And, you know, if you
00:50:40understand the basics of
00:50:41Christianity, you understand
00:50:42that there is a path to
00:50:44restoration.
00:50:45There is a path for
00:50:45forgiveness.
00:50:46That's what made Christianity
00:50:47so different from the other
00:50:49religions.
00:50:50However, that path is
00:50:53different when you're in a
00:50:54leadership role.
00:50:55Does restoration mean that
00:50:57you're restored as a leader
00:50:58who could potentially commit
00:51:00the same crimes?
00:51:01No, absolutely not.
00:51:02But there is a path to
00:51:03restoration.
00:51:05The difference in a cult,
00:51:06whenever you're in that cult
00:51:08mindset and you've been
00:51:09manipulated to think that this
00:51:11human is above the other
00:51:12humans, they give a different
00:51:14path for restoration than what
00:51:16is biblical.
00:51:17This person can be restored
00:51:18exactly to where they were
00:51:19with the money, power, sex,
00:51:22glamour, whatever it is that
00:51:23they're after.
00:51:24They can be restored to that
00:51:25exact position because they are
00:51:27the spiritual supreme.
00:51:29And it's the true definition
00:51:31of a cult.
00:51:32So whenever you see a person
00:51:33who's acting like this,
00:51:35this is the part where I'll go
00:51:37a little bit against what I
00:51:39heard in the speech.
00:51:41It is setting up the stage for
00:51:43something bad to happen again.
00:51:46Although I feel sorry for the
00:51:47person, I feel like I truly
00:51:49believe what she said.
00:51:51I truly believe that she
00:51:52believes what she said.
00:51:53But her head was not in the
00:51:56place of a normal human.
00:51:58This was a programmed cult
00:51:59mind.
00:51:59Well, she needs to believe
00:52:01that.
00:52:01That's where I'm trying to go
00:52:02with this.
00:52:03Her psyche cannot deal with
00:52:07what's going on.
00:52:08And so part, it's like an
00:52:09addict in a way, right?
00:52:11It's like, so that's the
00:52:13energy that's underneath.
00:52:15In other words, it appears on
00:52:17the surface she's defending
00:52:18her brother.
00:52:20What's actually going on
00:52:21underneath is she's
00:52:23desperately trying to
00:52:26recapture something that she
00:52:27lost two years ago.
00:52:28Does that make sense?
00:52:30That's what I feel anyways.
00:52:31Yeah, I feel that too.
00:52:32I just, I have this complex,
00:52:35complicated mess of emotions
00:52:37when I hear this.
00:52:37I actually should not have
00:52:39listened to this.
00:52:40This was quite, this was
00:52:41quite triggering.
00:52:42Yeah, it messes you up.
00:52:43Well, yeah, because it's, I
00:52:44wondered about this because
00:52:46to me, it's the
00:52:47quintessential, as we said,
00:52:49cult mindset, which if
00:52:52there's anybody that I know
00:52:53that's familiar with it
00:52:54inside out, it's you, right?
00:52:56And so in your mind, it's
00:52:57like, oh my God, I know
00:52:59this well.
00:53:00I have lived this already,
00:53:02you know?
00:53:03Yeah, it's like, you know,
00:53:04if you were, if you were on
00:53:07a boat and you watch
00:53:08several people drown and
00:53:10then you are in another
00:53:11situation where people
00:53:13aren't drowning, but they're
00:53:14almost drowning, you're not
00:53:16going to want to be near it.
00:53:17You're not going to want to
00:53:18look at it, I see a
00:53:20drowning person when I
00:53:21watch this, watch her
00:53:23speaking.
00:53:23This is a drowning
00:53:24person.
00:53:25She can't get up.
00:53:25That's why there's so
00:53:26much energy on it, right?
00:53:27Oh, yeah.
00:53:28In other words, there's
00:53:28this intense thing, you
00:53:30can feel it underneath,
00:53:32like there's all this
00:53:32energy because there's
00:53:34desperation in it.
00:53:36That's, that's the sad
00:53:37part of it, right?
00:53:37It's like this person is
00:53:39desperate.
00:53:40And, yeah, I'm going to
00:53:42just leave it there.
00:53:43No, I guess there's, this
00:53:46thing, this person's psyche
00:53:49is, you know, very fragile.
00:53:53So, this is desperate.
00:53:56Yeah, and that's why I say
00:53:57survival, that's in her
00:53:58mind, that's survival
00:54:00motive.
00:54:01People can understand that.
00:54:02It appears that she's, you
00:54:05know, this tough prophetess,
00:54:07but actually what's driving it
00:54:09is her trying to survive.
00:54:11Yeah, absolutely.
00:54:13So, that's very sad,
00:54:14actually.
00:54:15Absolutely.
00:54:16That's why I say, you
00:54:17know, I'm not a person who
00:54:19goes after the, you know,
00:54:21the latest controversy
00:54:23because everybody wants to
00:54:24click onto it.
00:54:25I actually feel really sorry
00:54:26for her.
00:54:27I did want to get your
00:54:29perspective because
00:54:30historically, this has
00:54:31historical value.
00:54:32This is something that in
00:54:33the future, people can look
00:54:34back.
00:54:35What my hope is, that she
00:54:37escapes this cult, she
00:54:38escapes the cult mindset.
00:54:40This was her frame of mind,
00:54:41and this is a milestone in
00:54:43history of what a cult
00:54:44programmed mindset looks like.
00:54:47And then after you escape, you
00:54:48can go back and, I never want
00:54:50to go back there.
00:54:51I never want to go to that
00:54:52drowning thing again.
00:54:54That's what I'm hoping happens.
00:54:55Well, it'll be interesting to see
00:54:57where all this goes because
00:54:59here's the reality.
00:55:02The reality is, if Mike does
00:55:05attempt to come back, right,
00:55:07there will always be a group of
00:55:10people who will follow him.
00:55:14I mean, look at all the other
00:55:17guys that are out there that, I
00:55:19mean, did some really bizarre
00:55:20things.
00:55:20There's always a group of
00:55:21people, to your point earlier,
00:55:24who see him as the man of God,
00:55:26a chosen vessel, a unique
00:55:28destiny, has a spiritual power,
00:55:31and despite his human failures,
00:55:33he's mission critical to what
00:55:35God wants to do.
00:55:36And so we're going to overlook
00:55:37all that and latch onto this
00:55:40because he's going to take us to
00:55:42the other side, as Jim Morrison
00:55:44used to sing, right?
00:55:46Mike's going to take us to the
00:55:47promised land, right?
00:55:48Then there's the majority of
00:55:51people who, which is typically
00:55:55very American, which is they
00:55:56just disappear.
00:55:58It's just like, you know what?
00:56:00I just am done.
00:56:03Like, I don't really want to know
00:56:04about this anymore.
00:56:05I've moved on.
00:56:07I'm in a different segment of
00:56:09the church world, and that's the
00:56:11majority of people.
00:56:13Then on the other side is, I
00:56:16don't know if it's larger or
00:56:17smaller than the first group,
00:56:18the single fans, but they're
00:56:20people that if Mike comes back
00:56:23and is in a pulpit, it's going
00:56:25to get nasty.
00:56:26They will protest.
00:56:28They will show up at church.
00:56:29Like, Mike will be hunted
00:56:30everywhere he goes because of
00:56:33the nature of the offense,
00:56:37right?
00:56:37There are people out there that
00:56:40want to castrate him, right?
00:56:43They're angry.
00:56:43They believe he should be in
00:56:45prison, and that's why I said in
00:56:50my book, at best, at best, I can
00:56:54see him maybe disappearing and
00:56:57writing books, but any sort of
00:56:59public anything, he's just going to
00:57:01get annihilated, just annihilated.
00:57:03I mean, it's just the fantasy of
00:57:06trying to come back.
00:57:07Even guys like, you know, as I
00:57:10told you, you know, months ago, I
00:57:12was right in the middle of the
00:57:13whole Jimmy Swagger, Marvin Gorman
00:57:15mess, right?
00:57:16And you're talking about the star
00:57:19evangelist for the assemblies of
00:57:21God.
00:57:21I mean, he is, he's the Elvis
00:57:23Presley of the AOG, but once that
00:57:27happened, he never came back,
00:57:30right?
00:57:31He never, ever came back to that
00:57:34stature.
00:57:34Um, you know, I spent time talking
00:57:37with Jim Baker after he fell,
00:57:39right?
00:57:40And same thing.
00:57:41You'll never come back.
00:57:42Mike Bickle will never have the
00:57:45stature that he did.
00:57:47It's over.
00:57:48Like that, you know, you know,
00:57:51that whole fantasy about him
00:57:54coming back and leading this end
00:57:56time movement, that's done.
00:57:58Nobody's going to follow him.
00:58:01Oh, I shouldn't say nobody, but it's
00:58:03just going to be a small, you
00:58:05know, little ragtag group of
00:58:06people.
00:58:06So it's, it's sad.
00:58:08It's, it's very sad, but I just,
00:58:11I just get really concerned when I
00:58:13start seeing these other leaders
00:58:15come up with this spirit of
00:58:17accusation mess.
00:58:19Cause I, I, I don't know if they
00:58:21realize how dangerous that is,
00:58:23right?
00:58:24They think they're being godly,
00:58:26right?
00:58:26And there it's that same thing
00:58:28again, in my mind, you know what I
00:58:30mean?
00:58:30This is God's heart.
00:58:32You know what I mean?
00:58:33There's a spirit here and I'm,
00:58:35you know, I'm going to, you know,
00:58:37I'm going to fight against this,
00:58:38not realizing that what they're
00:58:40doing is literally opening the
00:58:43door for more abuse, right?
00:58:46Opening that, shutting people down
00:58:48who have discernment, have insight,
00:58:51right?
00:58:51Who can hold leaders accountable,
00:58:53which all leaders are required to
00:58:57be.
00:58:59And by, you know, suddenly labeling
00:59:01everything is the spirit of
00:59:03accusation.
00:59:04Now, suddenly there's no
00:59:06accountability, right?
00:59:07Anything you say that in any way
00:59:11holds a leader accountable.
00:59:12Now you have a spirit of
00:59:14accusation, brother, or, you know
00:59:17what I mean?
00:59:17And, and that whole thing, Satan
00:59:19is the accuser of the brethren.
00:59:21You're siding with Satan himself.
00:59:23Well, and the other thing too,
00:59:25this is probably the last thing
00:59:26that I'll say.
00:59:27I don't know how much you've
00:59:28studied mental health, but there,
00:59:29when somebody's spiraling out of
00:59:31control, many of them who are in
00:59:34episodes will get God complexes.
00:59:37God's speaking through me.
00:59:38God has told me this.
00:59:39God is doing this.
00:59:40And how do you, how do you wade
00:59:44through this in the Pentecostal
00:59:45world?
00:59:45Because in the Pentecostal world,
00:59:47everything is God said.
00:59:49You can, you know, you go find a
00:59:51parking spot.
00:59:51I had a person do this.
00:59:53God said, God gave me that
00:59:55parking spot.
00:59:56That's how, that's the world you
00:59:57live in.
00:59:58But if you study just the mental
00:59:59health, which is aggravated by the
01:00:02cult mindset, once a person reaches
01:00:04to the level of insanity where
01:00:06they're claiming that God is
01:00:07speaking through them and believing
01:00:08it, it's one step from needing to
01:00:11be in a padded cell.
01:00:13So that's the other thing that makes
01:00:14me really sorry for this person.
01:00:16I wonder, you know, that phrase,
01:00:18reading the room.
01:00:21That was interesting to me because
01:00:23it's like, Lisa, read the room here
01:00:25because she got annihilated.
01:00:29I mean, annihilated.
01:00:32So I don't know.
01:00:33It's like, it's like, did you not,
01:00:35do you not understand?
01:00:37Like, is your head, you know, have
01:00:39you been doing the ostrich thing for
01:00:41the last two years?
01:00:42Well, she admitted it.
01:00:45I didn't, I haven't read anything.
01:00:46I don't know, right?
01:00:47It's like she basically buried her
01:00:49head.
01:00:50Therefore, she's not reading the room
01:00:51and she comes out thinking she's
01:00:55going to get on this whole box
01:00:57and, and, and deliver this prophetic
01:01:02word from God, right?
01:01:04And gets absolutely crushed to the
01:01:08point where she takes it down
01:01:10within 24 hours.
01:01:11I mean, she got annihilated
01:01:13and that was, I felt bad.
01:01:16It was like, oh my God.
01:01:17It's like, she just got crushed.
01:01:20And, and I'm thinking
01:01:21what was going or not going on in
01:01:26your head that you did not read the
01:01:27room and understand what's going on
01:01:29out there.
01:01:30Did you not understand what was
01:01:31coming if you did this?
01:01:34Right.
01:01:35It's like, it's like she just
01:01:36again, either naive
01:01:39or to your point, like disconnected,
01:01:43like, you know, mentally delusional to
01:01:47where she wouldn't figure this out
01:01:49because it's obvious.
01:01:50That's why I cringe.
01:01:51It's like, oh my God.
01:01:52I mean, you could tell 30 seconds into
01:01:54this.
01:01:54No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:01:56Right.
01:01:56It's like, you know, it's like you just
01:01:59walked out into the middle of a freeway.
01:02:02Right.
01:02:03It's like, you're going to get run over
01:02:05here.
01:02:06Like, what are you doing?
01:02:08And that's just it.
01:02:09You know, if you've ever been around
01:02:10people who have mental health issues,
01:02:12you kind of get a sense for it.
01:02:15And I feel sorry.
01:02:17I'm not going to go further than that.
01:02:19I feel sorry for her.
01:02:19This was spiritual suicide.
01:02:22What she did.
01:02:23Yeah.
01:02:24All right.
01:02:25It's like, oh my God, what are you
01:02:27doing?
01:02:27You know, it's like, so that's
01:02:30where I felt bad.
01:02:30It's like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
01:02:33So we'll see where it goes.
01:02:34You know what I mean?
01:02:35I just, I just feel bad.
01:02:40I hate seeing that.
01:02:41I hate, I mean, I don't know.
01:02:42Maybe I'm a kind of a softie.
01:02:44I just, I have a hard time watching
01:02:47people embarrass themselves.
01:02:49Have you ever done that?
01:02:50Like, I can't even stay in the room.
01:02:52Like, I got to get up and walk out.
01:02:54Like, I can't just sit there and
01:02:56watch.
01:02:57You know what I mean?
01:02:57It's just too painful.
01:02:59Well, it's like I said, I have trouble
01:03:01watching other people drowning.
01:03:02And that's what I saw.
01:03:04So again, I hesitated to even do this,
01:03:07but I'm glad that you did.
01:03:08I wanted to have some of the insight
01:03:11behind some of the things that she
01:03:13was saying.
01:03:13And I think we hopefully pulled that out.
01:03:15Well, yeah, because I know our audience
01:03:16is connected into that IHOP world.
01:03:18And so I'm sure, you know, a lot of
01:03:21people are commenting on it.
01:03:23So those are our thoughts.
01:03:24You know, again, there are perspectives.
01:03:28You know, there are, you know, from
01:03:30years of living through this, you know,
01:03:33as we're just unpacking this, trying
01:03:35to bring understanding of what may
01:03:37have been the motivation and what's
01:03:40driving it and maybe some warnings
01:03:42about why this is so dangerous.
01:03:45And, you know, if you see this kind of
01:03:47behavior in other situations, it should
01:03:50be a red flag, like, warning, you know,
01:03:53or as the robot used to say on,
01:03:57what was that show with the robot?
01:03:59Warning, warning.
01:04:00Danger, Will Robinson.
01:04:02Exactly.
01:04:03See, we're dating ourselves now,
01:04:05but I get the robot warning.
01:04:07Warning, warning, Bob Scott.
01:04:10Warning.
01:04:10Warning.
01:04:11And now I've got my afternoon
01:04:13watching lined up.
01:04:14That's what I want to see.
01:04:15Thank you so much for doing this.
01:04:17All right, brother.
01:04:18Well, if you've enjoyed our show and
01:04:20you want more information, you can
01:04:21check us out on the web.
01:04:22You can find us at
01:04:23william-brannum.org.
01:04:25For more about the dark side of the
01:04:26New Apostolic Reformation, you can
01:04:28read Weaponized Religion,
01:04:29From Christian Identity to the NAR,
01:04:32available on Amazon, Kindle, and
01:04:34Audible.
01:04:34And for more about Mike Bickle and
01:04:36IHOPKC, you can read
01:04:38Some Said They Blundered, Breaking
01:04:39My Decades of Silence on Mike
01:04:41Bickle, the Kansas City Prophets, and
01:04:43the International House of Prayer,
01:04:45also available on Amazon.
01:04:48And for more about the
01:04:49best чтобы I can
01:05:11to find out
01:05:11the nghĩa
01:05:12of