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00:03Dragon's Den is open for business this is the place where pitches can lead to
00:10riches and five of Britain's sharpest business brains await a new batch of
00:16fledgling entrepreneurs joining them tonight I'm Emma Greed I am a founder
00:24and serial entrepreneur probably best known for my brand Skims and Good
00:28American a global fashion mogul returns as a guest dragon welcome back Emma I've
00:35been waiting in the wings I've built multiple businesses worth hundreds of
00:39millions of dollars I've really changed the way the fashion industry looks at
00:44women of all shapes and sizes it is amazing to be back in the den I
00:48absolutely loved it last time and so I just can't wait to see what is in store
00:52for me I'm obsessed with the idea of who gets to be in business I'm trying to
00:56stop myself from crying because it's just nothing about you two and I love
00:59being able to help some of these entrepreneurs unlock their full
01:02potential sometimes you just gotta take a chance I'm looking for somebody with a
01:06single-minded focus on what it is that they want to achieve I'm just not quite
01:10sure that I believe that you and your team are the right team to do it I like
01:14problem solvers I need to purchase this immediately I think when you're a
01:18problem solver you make the best founders and entrepreneurs there's so
01:22many incredible businesses that have come out of this country oh that's some
01:26growth aye aye and I really want to be part of the next one you deserve that
01:31somebody takes a chance on you
01:42hi I'm Elliot and I'm from a small town in mid Wales so my product will
01:49revolutionize how people store bikes Elliot already has a couple of ideal
01:56partners in mind we'd welcome investment from all of the dragons but I actually think
02:01Tuka with his experience in retail and other cycling brands would be fantastic
02:05also Stephen for his experience with marketing and the directing consumer
02:11business as well I had one of these exact things pitched in about 15 years ago
02:17what is it then Peter it's like a hook for a bike it's like a bike abattoir what
02:24else could you put up there I know a few people I mag yeah that's what that's for look
02:52hello dragons I'm Elliot Tanner owner and founder of stashed products I'm here today asking for 100,000 pounds for
03:02a
03:02two and a half percent of my business we design manufacture and sell the space rail
03:08an innovative premium quality bike storage system that finally answers the
03:14question how do you store more bikes in less space space rail is wonderfully
03:20simple uses a rotating hook and a sliding rail to allow bikes to be stored closer
03:26together together for example you could store eight bikes whereas before you'd only store four
03:32it's 100% UK made and has patents granted in the UK EU and the US since trading began
03:42we've had over 4,000 orders and now 80% ship worldwide I expect to see revenues reach over 10
03:52million pounds
03:52within the next five years my vision with your help is become the number one bike storage company in the
04:01world
04:03a space saving storage system for bikes is the offering from inventor and entrepreneur Elliot Tanner
04:12so we've got sliding hooks that run on a rail the hooks can rotate and spin when there's no weight
04:20on them
04:20they're static so if you touch them with a bike wheel when you're trying to load it it won't move
04:26as soon as you put load on it it's free to move which then allows you to bring the bikes
04:31closer together
04:33so you can draw them out and access the one you want to get to Elliot is seeking one hundred
04:39thousand
04:40pounds in return for a two and a half percent share in his business we sell a wall system a
04:47ceiling
04:47system and an angle mate system so you can fit the system wherever you want in your house garage or
04:54shop
04:55his product is intended to be versatile but will Elliot storage solution for cycles prove to be the perfect fit
05:03for Emma Greed
05:07Elliot I have to tell you as a mother of four children who has a husband who absolutely loves an
05:17e-bike I need to purchase this immediately
05:20great thank you thank you I was hoping you'd give me a discount
05:24so how did you actually come up with it what's your background what did you do
05:29so I spent 10 years running my own one-man band research and development business but I was doing it
05:35for other people
05:36so you know I take their their idea from concept piece of paper through design prototyping testing patent application
05:44find a supplier manufacturer and put it into production for them and about three years ago I was like
05:49I've done done done quite a lot for everyone else it's probably time for me to do it for myself
05:54and prove
05:54that I can I can build a business and now we're we've sold 25,000 bikes worth in three years
06:01two years two years
06:02yeah amazing and so tell us about the journey of the last two years yeah and where you are from
06:08a sales point of view
06:09first year we turned over 85,000 and a net of 20 year two 825,000 revenue
06:20wow that's some great
06:22wow
06:23how are you
06:25net of 200 this year we'll we'll turn over 1.9 million with about 750 net
06:32750 net profit
06:33wow
06:34yeah
06:34you're printing cash
06:36you are killing
06:37doing all right
06:38doing all right
06:40what are you doing here because you've asked for 100k cash but you clearly don't need cash
06:43because you're printing it you've got a money factory at your house
06:45so why are you here
06:48so this is all direct consumer so believe it or not people come on our website they purchase this from
06:54all around the world
06:54we haven't even touched retail yet and I want help with that I want help with your experience your background
07:01on some guidance
07:05Elliot
07:06congratulations
07:07thank you
07:09I'm in the bike business
07:10I know you are
07:10and it is a disaster out there as you probably know
07:14I know
07:15as far as bikes retail is concerned the bike market peaked a couple of years ago
07:19yep
07:20you couldn't get a bike and it's just collapsed for the whole industry
07:23yep
07:23and I'm experiencing it
07:25however
07:26it does not mean that accessories are not doing well because people still own bikes and they want them stored
07:32yes
07:32so what does a one section which is a four bike section cost
07:38sure
07:39can I give you the eight bike because that's our most popular item
07:41yep
07:42so if it's a ceiling system we sell it at 500 plus VAT
07:46wow
07:47so you're catering for what I call the one well the one percent lycra boys
07:55you know the fanatics who've got a
07:57I'm not a fanatic and I'd spend 500 quid buying this to start you know I'm not a lycra boy
08:03but I've got a couple of pretty expensive bikes
08:05my dad's e-bike three and a half grand you know
08:08yeah but not everyone can spend 500 quid and I know people spend thousands on bikes but as a retail
08:14product at 500 pounds you've got to be very selective where you put it
08:19there's certain bike shops I want to be into
08:22give an example
08:23yeah so
08:24there's one in Kingston which is quite famous
08:26yes
08:27exactly who I've probably already spoken to
08:29you have
08:30yeah we've started conversations about going in for retail with them
08:35are you selling predominantly on an online marketplace at the moment or are you selling predominantly on your own website
08:40just on our website
08:42so you're not on online marketplaces as well
08:46we've done little bits on Amazon we just have little bits on eBay but it's less than a couple of
08:51percent
08:52and how are you driving sales?
08:54social media ads
08:55okay meta Google
08:57yes meta Google Pinterest is fantastic
08:59okay
09:00what worries you so you said retail
09:02yeah
09:02is there anything else that worries you in your business that's keeping you up at night or that's a challenge
09:06at the moment?
09:07I think just I've stepped out of my comfort zone
09:10so for example with the marketing side of things
09:14I'm having to decide what we spend on ads
09:16I come up as an engineer
09:18I've got no experience of it
09:19it's something I'm learning on the go
09:21so I think there's certain elements within what skills I've got that I'm missing
09:26and I think that scares me
09:27because it's hard to make decisions when you don't know what you're doing
09:33you've done well haven't you?
09:34thank you
09:35there's no doubt you've done well
09:37it blows my mind
09:38no I think you're genuine
09:39there's not a lot you can say
09:40this does exactly what it says on the tin
09:43you've done really well
09:44yeah
09:44I think that you've got a great opportunity to make a lot of money
09:48but that's not what just gets me out of bed every day
09:51it's just about the money
09:54I have to love what I invest in
09:57and I'm thinking
10:00how excited can I get?
10:02and I think ok
10:03some of the things you get excited about
10:04ok right
10:05this is what I've invested in today
10:07and I go to rattle them off
10:08they go god dad I've got to try that
10:09and I go ok
10:11but you've got to bear with me with this one
10:13I've invested in a
10:15curtain rail with a hook on it
10:17yeah same thing
10:18and it's kind of ok what does that do dad?
10:19oh it hangs bikes
10:20yeah
10:21and I'm going to go home and I'm going to go
10:22oh dad that's been
10:23oh my god that's been around for 15 years
10:25you've got one
10:25you bought one for us when we were 11
10:27what are you doing?
10:29you've got more money than cents
10:30yeah but it's doing really well girls
10:31listen he's made a fortune
10:33he's making 700,000 a year
10:37and that's where I get to with this
10:38is about how exciting is it
10:40apart from the fact that it's so exciting about the money
10:44yes
10:44and then you're asking for a lot of help here
10:47you're saying I'm not an expert
10:48you've looked at Stephen as if you've fallen in love
10:51that's why he's annoyed
10:53that's it
10:54when you talk about marketing
10:55you talk about marketing
10:56and then he goes
10:56oh my god Stephen
10:57as if he's the only guy that knows about marketing
11:00he's going to the trigger
11:01and then
11:01and then when you talk to Tuka about bikes
11:04you're agreeing with him
11:06no bike sales
11:07they're rubbish
11:07nobody's going to buy bikes
11:08but your product relies on bikes
11:10to be used by bikes right?
11:13yeah yeah
11:13so it's really difficult Elliot this
11:17and frankly I'm just not hooked on your hook
11:21it's not for me
11:22so I'm going to say that I'm out
11:24but I take nothing away from what you've done
11:26thank you Pian
11:29Elliot
11:30hi I'm Sarah
11:31hi Sarah
11:32I think you've got an absolutely brilliant business
11:35but
11:36do you feel like it's just a bit of a fluke that you've done this well?
11:40because you're talking like you feel as though it's just happened
11:43I can remember when I was on year three of starting my business
11:47and we I think in year three we'd go to about
11:49it was about 2.3 million turnover
11:51so almost the same
11:53yeah
11:53and I really feel like you know
11:54if I could go back again knowing what I know
11:56the knowledge I have now is so valuable
11:58to being able to get where I was probably going to get anywhere
12:01get there a lot faster
12:03I want to put a rocket ship up it
12:05I'm good
12:06I'm good with the rocket ships
12:07it is literally the exact
12:09I know the exact journey
12:12the doors to open
12:12the levers to pull
12:13and you are doing all the right stuff
12:15you just don't know what you don't know yet
12:19I can fill those gaps
12:21but
12:23I've got to be incentivised to want to do that
12:25because essentially the money is irrelevant
12:27you don't need the 100 grand
12:28the 100 grand doesn't make the difference
12:29so I've got to look at what is it worth
12:31the time that I need to put in
12:33the energy I would need to put in
12:35and I would be willing to do that
12:37and offer you all the money you've asked for
12:41for 7.5% of the business
12:45okay
12:46thanks very much
12:48I was thinking higher than that
12:50you've got a great offer
12:52because I know what I can bring to the party
12:55I was thinking higher than that
12:57but I was also ballantining out with
12:58what might you agree to
13:03which depends if you want a Mini or a Ferrari
13:11I'll do it then
13:14don't worry
13:14in this sector
13:15I didn't mean she's a Mini
13:19I'll repeat
13:19I'll take it back
13:20in this sector
13:21it depends if you want a Mini or a Ferrari
13:23he basically
13:24he basically
13:25he basically
13:26he made it work
13:27he just made it a lot worse
13:29he made it work
13:30are you making an offer too
13:31so I don't
13:31I'll wait
13:32I'll wait
13:33just
13:33get on the sidelines
13:35I'm not out
13:36that's for sure
13:36I thought Ferraris were fast
13:38okay Elliot
13:39I'm gonna
13:40I'm gonna
13:41leave this lot
13:42chatting about Ferraris
13:43and Minis
13:44of which I have no interest in
13:45whatsoever
13:46what I am interested in your business
13:48thank you
13:49I don't think it's accidental
13:51I mean you present as if
13:52you're kind of a bit bewildered
13:54about how this has all happened
13:55that's actually not right is it
13:57because you've been
13:57you've had years of experience
13:59in developing product
14:01and you've applied that knowledge
14:02to something that you want to do
14:04I'm not at all surprised it worked
14:05thank you
14:07so I am gonna offer you all of the money
14:10I want 5% of the business
14:15thank you
14:16actually I
14:18thank you for the kind words as well
14:19I put
14:19I put 100% into everything
14:22if we're gonna do it
14:23I just put everything into it
14:25you can
14:25you can really really tell
14:27and I
14:27I just want to get out of the way
14:30because you've got some good action
14:32happening on either side of me
14:34and I'm not
14:35I just am not the best partner for this business
14:37I have to be honest with you
14:38and I wish you so so so much luck
14:40but I'm out
14:41and I'll be cheering you from the sidelines
14:43thank you Emma
14:44it means a lot
14:45thank you
14:47you've got great offers
14:50and if it's just offers you want
14:51then you've got them
14:54but
14:55I bet you come for me
15:00and I come at a price
15:02so
15:04I would offer you all the money for 10%
15:07and I would reach 7.5%
15:09and I would reach 7.5%
15:09when I get my money back
15:13thank you
15:15hmm
15:16gosh it came to me too quickly
15:18I er
15:22do you want me to go and talk to the wolf a bit?
15:25I'm sure there's a saying you know Stephen
15:27and the last bit of it's about getting off the pot
15:31what's going through your mind?
15:34um
15:34it's a good question
15:36there's a couple of things really
15:37it's really about
15:38it's really about the size of the opportunity
15:41especially when this becomes popularised
15:43you're going to be attacked from every side
15:45and I wonder
15:45and that's why I'm thinking
15:46how do I get my cash out?
15:49um
15:49we're a profitable business
15:50yeah
15:51we're doing well
15:53when you put
15:54you know
15:55um
15:56more experienced
15:57people behind it
15:58the true growth
15:59that you could generate
16:00just in direct to consumer
16:01through what we're doing
16:03you know
16:04it could be huge
16:05sometimes we're seeing
16:0620, 30
16:07okay you know what
16:07I get you
16:08I understand
16:09um
16:12there's a couple of people
16:13that I really want to introduce you to
16:14that really understand the dark arts of
16:16return on ad spend
16:18um
16:18the other thing is that I just think
16:20sometimes in business
16:21what you need is a bit of a mentor
16:23someone you can call
16:24someone you can speak to
16:25someone you can hang out with
16:26come to their office
16:26talk to them about issues
16:27and a group of people
16:28that can support you
16:29because it's lonely
16:34so I'm going to make you an offer
16:37I'm going to make you an offer
16:38for the full amount of money
16:40for 10% of the business
16:41and I will drop down
16:43to 5%
16:44when my capital is returned
16:46so when that 100k comes home
16:47I'll go back down to 5%
16:49of the business
16:52I'll match that
16:55and I will match
16:57the dropping to 5% as well
17:00and I don't have to match that
17:02obviously
17:02because I'm already at 5%
17:05so we've got everyone at 5%
17:08got everyone dropping to 5%
17:09when their cash comes back
17:10or Deborah's straight at 5%
17:17I mean first of all
17:18thanks for all your offers
17:20I came in asking for 2.5%
17:22erm
17:24and I've got a limit in my head
17:26of where I want to go to
17:28erm
17:29does anybody want to
17:31er
17:32come down to 3%?
17:35Elliot I'll tell you
17:36not for me
17:37I didn't just chuck a number out
17:39I thought long and hard
17:40I thought long and hard
17:40and I think I'm going to
17:41stick with 5%
17:42I'm afraid
17:44Elliot what's the deal
17:45what's the deal that you're
17:46saying that you'd accept?
17:49erm
17:50because I don't want to waste time
17:53for me
17:54the limit is
17:573 to 4
17:573 or 4%
18:00if I invest at the 10%
18:01as basically as security
18:03to make sure that nothing goes awry
18:05but if my capital is returned
18:07I drop to 4%
18:09would that be an acceptable offer?
18:12yeah I'm pretty confident
18:13you'll get your money back
18:15ok so
18:16so that's my offer
18:17I'll do that
18:18I'll do the same
18:1910%
18:20to start
18:21whenever I get my money back
18:234%
18:24ok
18:25and if I say
18:26I'm 7.5%
18:28then I'll get 3%
18:29erm
18:32can I ask one more question?
18:34go ahead
18:34erm
18:38Tuukka
18:39would you
18:40start at
18:417%
18:43and then come down to 4%
18:44once you get your money back?
18:48makes a difference really
18:49yeah
18:50because I'm sure they'll get one back really quickly
18:53ok
18:53I'd like to thank everyone for your offer
18:55I'd like to accept yours
18:56great
18:57well done
18:58that's great
18:59no
18:59we'll make this happen
19:01alright?
19:02good thank you
19:02I told you came for me
19:04well done
19:05well done
19:05well done
19:07elation for Elliot
19:10who
19:10following a bidding war
19:12and some tense negotiations
19:13leaves the den with a hundred thousand pounds
19:17and the backing of a dragon
19:19who is never just along for the ride
19:23look
19:23I believe
19:24let him focus on
19:26creativity
19:26and then put him in front of
19:28all the big bike brands
19:29100%
19:31absolutely
19:32this is great
19:32you'll do wonders with that
19:34you'll do wonders with that
19:37absolutely amazing
19:38absolutely amazing
19:40and
19:41I'm super happy
19:41I think Tuka's gonna
19:42take our business to the next level
19:58do you want some water?
19:59a little
20:00hello
20:01I'm Nitya
20:03I'm 23 years old
20:04I live in London
20:05and I moved here
20:06from Bangalore, India
20:08I originally came here to study
20:10for four years
20:11but after my bachelors
20:13I decided to drop out
20:14from my masters
20:15and start pursuing
20:16building this business
20:19Nitya has brought an assistant
20:21to help demonstrate her product
20:22in the den
20:24but her biggest champions
20:25are over 5,000 miles away
20:29my family in India
20:30have always supported me
20:31all the way from day one
20:33we've always watched dragons dance
20:35since we were kids
20:36so it's really
20:37you know
20:37come a full circle
20:50hello dragons
20:51I'm Nitya
20:52co-founder of Unpaws
20:54imagine
20:55every single cell
20:56in your body
20:57on fire
20:58sweating profusely
20:59and turning red
21:00completely unannounced
21:02this is how some women
21:04would describe their menopause
21:05these episodes
21:06are known as
21:07hot flushes
21:09they can occur
21:10anywhere between
21:113 to 5 minutes
21:12can happen 6 to 10 times a day
21:14for up to 4 to 8 years
21:16of a woman's life
21:18these episodes
21:19aren't just uncomfortable
21:20they can trigger
21:21a domino effect
21:22of symptoms
21:23like loss of sleep
21:24loss of productivity
21:26and loss of focus
21:28our flagship product
21:29Cool Zen
21:30is a patent pending
21:31using smart wearable
21:32worn in the back of the neck
21:34Cool Zen
21:35is able to detect
21:36the onset
21:37of a hot flush episode
21:38and aims to provide
21:40relief
21:40using a localized cooling effect
21:42Cool Zen syncs with our
21:44companion app
21:45where users can see
21:47trends and insights
21:49about their data
21:50our users have reported
21:52that Cool Zen
21:53has been able
21:53to bring down
21:54the duration of a hot flush episode
21:56to under 45 seconds
21:58we are here today
22:00seeking £100,000
22:01in exchange
22:02for 2.5% equity
22:04in unpause
22:05join us in our mission
22:07to help millions of women
22:08unpause their menopause
22:11to show you how Cool Zen works
22:13we have Supriya here
22:14one of our very first users
22:16and also
22:17one of our investors' wife
22:22A cooling device for menopausal women
22:25worn on the back of the neck
22:27and intended to minimise
22:28the effects of hot flushes
22:29is the brainchild
22:31of Nitya Dintakirti
22:34Cool Zen is first powered on
22:35and connects automatically
22:37to the phone via Bluetooth
22:40Nitya is seeking £100,000
22:43and once the device is connected
22:44Supriya places the device
22:46onto her neck
22:47in return
22:48for a 2.5% share
22:50of her company
22:51the therapy just turned on
22:54automatically
22:54whenever
22:55she has a hot flush episode
22:58the dragons
22:59have always been
22:59admirers of innovation
23:01the device can also
23:03be triggered
23:03manually
23:04either by using the app
23:06by pressing the button
23:06on screen
23:07or by pressing the button
23:08on the device itself
23:10but will a tech savvy
23:12Peter Jones
23:13Thank you
23:14Thank you for your time
23:15Thank you Supriya
23:16prove to be a fan
23:17of this particular product
23:24So
23:25in essence then
23:27it looks like
23:27you've basically
23:29invented
23:30an air conditioning unit
23:31stuck to your neck
23:32Not necessarily
23:34Yes
23:34it cools down
23:35but in our body
23:37we have a lot of
23:38thermoregulatory hot spots
23:39or places in our body
23:41that are sensitive
23:42to temperature changes
23:43the back of our neck
23:45are one of the most sensitive
23:46to any kind of change
23:48in temperature
23:49It's not actually cooling
23:50the entire body down
23:51by like, you know
23:52So what is it doing?
23:53Tell me what it is
23:54Is there a fan inside
23:56there?
23:57What is it doing?
23:58We use a module
23:59called a thermoelectric module
24:02which essentially
24:02gets really cold
24:03on one side
24:04and hot on one side
24:05when you pass current
24:05through it
24:06so what essentially
24:07is happening is
24:07when the hot flush episode
24:09starts
24:09you have this sudden
24:10spike of temperature
24:12and what
24:13the device is able to do
24:14is automatically
24:15detect that sudden
24:16spike in temperature
24:17which means that
24:18it starts cooling down
24:20Okay
24:21and then
24:22why does it have to be
24:23it looks quite big
24:24you look a little bit
24:25like cyborgs
24:28Actually it's Blade Runner
24:29isn't it?
24:30because they were plugged
24:30in at the back
24:31Dragon
24:34Actually the reason
24:35for the size
24:35is one
24:37battery
24:37because we want it
24:39to have prolonged battery life
24:40and second
24:41because there's heat
24:42being generated
24:42on one side
24:43we need to be able
24:44to capture that heat
24:45so the user doesn't feel it
24:48So I put it
24:50on the back of my neck
24:51Yeah
24:52It is slightly uncomfortable
24:54Can you see a scenario
24:56where it could reduce in size?
24:58Absolutely
24:59Today this product
25:00is you know
25:01iPhone 1
25:02it's
25:03that's where it is
25:04so and with
25:05very little capital
25:06and you know
25:07very short time
25:08this is where we got it
25:08I like your ambition
25:10iPhone 1
25:11I like that
25:12that's the size of your ambition
25:13well done you
25:14Thank you
25:15So we absolutely
25:16are confident
25:17that we can get this
25:19to half the size
25:20and hopefully in the future
25:21we're you know
25:22able to work on it
25:23even more
25:24and make it something
25:25as seamless as a patch
25:26where it's almost like
25:27sticking on you know
25:28a band-aid
25:29where you don't feel it at all
25:32Netia
25:32what's your background?
25:34So I studied
25:35Biomedical Engineering
25:37at King's College London
25:38and I graduated
25:39three years ago
25:40and I started
25:41on post-trade
25:42after I graduated university
25:44Okay
25:45do you have any data
25:46that validates
25:48this technology
25:49that isn't anecdotal
25:50from customers
25:51do you have any
25:52sort of clinical trial data
25:53or anything else?
25:54So at the moment
25:54our device
25:55is classified
25:56as a general electronic device
25:57like most other wearables
25:59in the market today
26:00so it is
26:01CE and UK CA certified
26:03we haven't done
26:04a formal clinical study
26:05yet ourselves
26:06we have done
26:07pilot studies internally
26:08with users
26:09before we launched
26:10the product itself
26:11but we are in conversations
26:12with a couple of NHS trusts
26:14to run a full-blown clinical study
26:16towards either the end of this year
26:19or early next year
26:20And you referenced a we
26:22so I assume there's a team of you
26:23Yes absolutely
26:24I also have a co-founder
26:25he has experience
26:27in building healthcare companies
26:29so he's already had a start-up
26:31before this
26:32in fetal monitoring
26:33and he exited that company
26:35and after that
26:36we met
26:36and started Unpossed together
26:39So this product
26:42you designed it
26:43you got the R&D
26:46it's not off the shelf from China
26:48Absolutely not
26:49this is made in our offices
26:52by ourselves
26:53Where's your office?
26:55So I'm based in London
26:58and the most of my team
27:00and the R&D team
27:01along with my co-founder
27:02is based in India
27:03where we have our own setup
27:04in terms of manufacturing
27:06so we do everything in-house
27:09So where you are at the moment
27:10how many obviously
27:11with the evaluation at 2.5 million
27:13you've obviously sold a lot of these
27:14so how many have you sold?
27:16So we've sold close to 130 devices to date
27:19in the last three months
27:20130,000?
27:21130 devices
27:23and a revenue of over £16,000
27:27Sorry, 130 units sold?
27:30Yes
27:30Generating £16,000?
27:33Yes
27:33And it's 2.5 million valuation?
27:36Yes
27:37I knew you couldn't keep that smile going
27:40So tell me about that
27:42what's the valuation metric you've done?
27:44How have you calculated value?
27:45A couple of reasons as to why
27:47we're asking for this value
27:48number one
27:50the market itself
27:51menopause has always been traditionally
27:52looked at from a pharmaceutical lens
27:54or a supplement lens
27:56and we believe that we're going to be
27:57one of the first companies
27:58to disrupt the market with technology
28:00so we are a category creating product
28:03number two
28:04I think we are the right team
28:05to be able to convert
28:07and build products that users want
28:09and you know bring to market
28:11and make it reality
28:12Okay, so you've just made the valuation up basically
28:15That's fine
28:16Thank you
28:19It's here
28:20Who else is delivering
28:22this sort of relief
28:25via this sort of method?
28:27There are a few of them
28:29but one very strong competitor
28:31a company based in the US
28:32they've raised over 50 million dollars to date
28:35they're a risk based solution
28:37which they do brand themselves
28:39like risk based
28:40risk based
28:41so they brand themselves slightly differently
28:42not specifically for menopausal women
28:44but more as a personal thermostat
28:47Okay, so given how this one is nodding over here
28:50I'm keen to hear a bit more about this competitor in the US
28:54which you seem to know about
28:55I definitely do know the competitor in the US
28:57I mean first of all
28:58congratulations
28:59Thank you
28:59because I think it's so impressive
29:00that you stand here
29:02fresh out of university
29:03when you've got a device
29:05I've had it on since you walked out
29:07and gave it to us
29:07I don't find it uncomfortable
29:09and I'm a person that's very easily irritated
29:11so I'm kind of surprised
29:13and I think that just sort of generally thinking about
29:16the lack of research
29:18financing and solutions in this space
29:20you're really really onto something
29:23but you know about your big competitor
29:24right?
29:25You know that they're extremely well funded
29:28and I think as a biochemical engineer
29:30I'm impressed that you've got this far
29:32but how are you thinking about
29:34actually bringing this product to market?
29:36So we have two main strategies
29:38we want to go directly to our customer
29:40we have a very lovely community
29:42of three to four thousand women
29:43that we've built
29:44who have given their time and energy
29:46talking about
29:47what they would ideally want in a solution
29:49testing these prototypes
29:50so word of mouth
29:52and the fact that
29:53we have seen that
29:54every woman we speak to
29:55she always brings three or five of her friends
29:57and says
29:58hey these guys are suffering from it too
30:00number two
30:01the biggest stakeholder
30:02in any healthcare space
30:03is a clinician
30:04so that's who we also want to target
30:06and bring on board
30:07So you're going to actually try to get this
30:09to consumers through doctors
30:11Could I? Yes
30:12So already that tells me
30:14that you're not really thinking about
30:15bringing this to market
30:16in quite the right way
30:18your competition
30:19is doing it entirely differently
30:21right
30:21through a direct to consumer platform
30:22going through more traditional wholesale
30:24bringing it directly to consumers
30:26because it's the person that's suffering
30:28that wants to get this
30:30get their hands on it
30:31you know
30:31I think this is a really complex space
30:33because some women are actually going to their doctors
30:35and getting very little help in this space
30:38and so
30:39you want to bypass the doctors
30:40and get straight to the sufferer
30:42so that you
30:43this should be
30:43this is a consumer facing product to me
30:46you need to figure out
30:47how you're going to get this
30:48in the hands of
30:49every woman
30:50all over this country
30:51and it doesn't feel to me
30:52like you've got quite
30:53that far yet
30:55because I mean
30:56I think it's interesting
30:57that you've come out here
30:58asking for a hundred grand
31:00when your competitors just raised 50 million
31:03so a hundred thousand pounds
31:05what are you going to do with that?
31:07so marketing would be the biggest thing
31:09second
31:10we have a very strong R&D
31:11and product development team
31:12but we don't have that with
31:14you know
31:14any of the marketing or sales
31:15we want to actually build out that team as well
31:17you know
31:19it's clear that you've done
31:20a ton of research
31:21you have a really interesting team
31:23but I'd rather you come out today
31:25and ask for
31:25five hundred or six hundred grand
31:27and tell me I'm going to spend
31:28you know a hundred thousand
31:29on the clinical trials
31:30I'm going to spend
31:31three hundred grand
31:32figuring out what V2 of this is
31:34and then we're going to do some
31:35go-to-market trials
31:36but you haven't said that today
31:37and that
31:38but I think
31:39let me just finish
31:41because I think this is really
31:43really important
31:43the beautiful thing
31:45about what is happening here
31:47is you are picking up
31:48a ton of information
31:50right?
31:50and if you're smart
31:51as an entrepreneur
31:52you will gobble
31:53all of that information up
31:55because this
31:56here
31:57with these dragons
31:58is an amazing opportunity
31:59for you to think
32:00about the future
32:01of your business
32:02and what you're doing
32:03she mentioned
32:03it's part of the bigger
32:04so what's the bigger raise?
32:06one million
32:06oh here we go
32:07I mean
32:09but even
32:10but even that
32:11even one million
32:12one million for what?
32:13then how are you going to deploy
32:14those funds?
32:14I just don't think
32:15that you've come
32:16and told a compelling story
32:17and I really don't think
32:18that you are
32:19in the running
32:20when you think about
32:22where the competition is
32:23right now
32:24I believe in the device
32:26I'm just not quite sure
32:27that I believe
32:28that you and your team
32:29are the right team
32:30to do it
32:30and so for those reasons
32:32I'm out
32:33but I really wish you
32:34the best of luck
32:34thank you
32:37so I'll tell you where I am
32:39I think
32:40I want to say
32:41well done
32:42because honestly
32:43it's extraordinary
32:44what you've done
32:45it's really amazing
32:47so what I know for sure
32:48for sure
32:49is that you
32:50are going to be
32:51a success in your life
32:52that's something
32:53I've bet the farm on
32:55and Emma was savage
32:57she was a bit too savage with you
32:58she said she didn't believe in you
32:59now I believe in you
33:01however
33:04I believe in the competition as well
33:06and unfortunately
33:07I believe in the competition a lot more
33:09because I've first hand
33:11heard the accounts
33:12of how much of an ugly
33:14brutal vicious blood bath
33:15this wearables game is
33:16and the only way
33:17you end up winning in this game
33:19is with extraordinary talent
33:20but also unfortunately
33:21with extraordinary capital
33:24so with all of this in mind
33:27I'm going to say that I'm out
33:28thank you Stephen
33:29thank you
33:34Let's hear
33:34look I
33:35I really admire what you've done
33:37and this is
33:38this is
33:39this is a great
33:40it's what I love about
33:42people coming up with ideas
33:43and this is great
33:45but
33:47there's a really big issue here
33:48for me
33:49and it's where I started
33:51and I wasn't really messing around
33:53when I said that this looks like
33:54a sort of a stick on
33:56sort of air conditioning unit
33:57I think your issue is
33:58the size of the product
34:01you need to get this into your R&D team
34:03in India
34:03back in there
34:04and minimise this
34:05as quickly as possible
34:06and then you could be highly valuable
34:09but until that day comes
34:10I'm sorry it's not an investment
34:12so I'm out
34:16It's you
34:17I mean I think
34:18you can tell Pete is a bloke
34:20and doesn't suffer from these hot flushes
34:22because every menopausal woman I know
34:24would happily stick this on the back of her neck
34:26if it was going to provide the relief you've talked about
34:28even if it was bigger than this
34:30but
34:31offering 2.5% of the company
34:33you are going to go through so many rounds of fundraising
34:36by the time I would exit this business
34:38I would have this much of the company
34:41be totally disincentivised
34:43to want to put my time behind it
34:45to help this go anywhere
34:46because I would be diluted so much
34:48it just isn't appealing for me as an investor
34:51so I'm really sorry but I'm out
34:54Thank you
34:58I think you're brilliant
35:00I think everything about me
35:02exactly as Stephen says
35:04tells me you've got success in you
35:05and you know what?
35:06I think it could be this
35:09There is a but
35:10There's two things that concern me
35:13One is exactly as sour identified
35:17You're going to need a lot of cash
35:20Dilution is going to be huge
35:21I think fundraising is a big issue
35:23and this is a slightly different one
35:25I feel like most of your business sits in India
35:29I don't do any domestic flying
35:31and I will only do maybe one long haul flight a year
35:38So it feels slightly odd to me
35:40I like to feel a business
35:41I like to get in there
35:42and understand where it's going
35:43and what it's doing
35:45So it's not an investment for me
35:47for the reasons I've outlined
35:48but best of luck and well done
35:50Thank you
35:51Thank you so much
35:51Thank you Deborah
35:52But I'm afraid I'm out
35:55Thank you
35:58Well, how do you feel?
36:01That's a tough question
36:02Mixed feelings, but yeah
36:04Mixed feelings
36:05Yeah
36:05But the biggest thing that
36:06everyone's pointed out is
36:08you need a lot of cash
36:10That's the problem
36:12Now if you came here and said
36:13I've got a very simple product
36:16and this is what it does
36:18I've turned over half a million pounds
36:20but I need to accelerate it
36:22I'd say I've got a solution for that
36:25Because one of my investments
36:27we've created 42 videos
36:31for the whole journey in the menopause
36:34and that goes from exercise
36:37to medicine
36:38to sex
36:39everything you can imagine
36:41and our plan
36:43in the next three months
36:44is to create a million data
36:47on women with menopause
36:49Perfect match
36:50Correct?
36:52Yeah
36:53Absolutely
36:53But you've come in here
36:54asking for a hundred thousand
36:56for two and a half percent
37:00You know
37:01I'd want at least 25%
37:05We'll offer it
37:06You know?
37:08Of what I think I can bring to the party
37:13And I wouldn't want to insult you
37:16So
37:17I'm not going to invest
37:21And I'm out
37:22And I'm out
37:22However
37:24If you want
37:27to talk to me about
37:28putting this product
37:29onto our menopause platform
37:31I'm very willing to do that
37:32Thank you so much Tuka
37:33I'll really take you up on that offer
37:36Thanks for coming in
37:37Thank you everyone
37:38Thank you so much
37:38Good luck
37:39Thank you
37:42No deal
37:43for Nitya
37:44But while the biomedical engineer
37:46turned businesswoman
37:48may have failed to gain investment
37:50she isn't leaving the den downhearted
37:53This is definitely not the end
37:55for Cool Zen
37:56And of course
37:58Tuka offering help and support
38:00is really nice
38:01and we would love to take him up on that offer
38:20Hi, my name's Brendan
38:22This is my younger brother Jayden
38:24We're from Birmingham
38:25and we're in business together
38:26Let's give it our best
38:28Yeah, that's my ship
38:29Being brothers in business
38:31definitely comes with its challenges
38:32but more so
38:33a lot more strengths
38:35We know each other inside and out
38:36and I think that's
38:37the only reason
38:38why the business is where it is today
38:40I think the guest dragon
38:41has any interest in outdoor cooking
38:45Do you like hot sauce?
38:48No, I like hot
38:49I buy hot sauce and seasoning
38:50wherever I go
38:51all over the world
38:52Yeah
38:52I'll always find a market
38:54or a little thing
38:57Any craze
38:58there's over a billion pounds
39:00a net worth
39:00just sitting here
39:01Ever since I've been in school
39:03and college
39:04I've always been entrepreneurially driven
39:05Jayden is definitely the one
39:07with the business brain here
39:08I work on all the marketing
39:10and the branding
39:10and things like that
39:11and I think we were
39:12I think we're a good duo
39:13Absolutely
39:23Hello Dragons
39:24My name's Jayden Manders
39:25And my name is Brendan Manders
39:27And today
39:28we're seeking
39:29£90,000
39:30in exchange for
39:31a 20% share
39:32in our business
39:33Lumberjacks Food Company
39:35Lumberjacks started in 2020
39:37with three simple things
39:39a brotherly bond
39:40£100 each
39:42and the drive
39:43and determination
39:44to work tirelessly
39:45to grow the business
39:46So after a lot of hard work
39:48and determination
39:49Lumberjacks has now stopped
39:51in over 60 garden centres
39:52farm shops
39:53and butchers
39:54all across the United Kingdom
39:55through selling seasonings
39:56and sauces
39:57within the barbecue niche
39:58with one of our most recent
40:00garden centre stockists
40:01quoting an almost
40:02triple boosting turnover
40:03since 2019
40:05We also sell a range of products
40:07at food festivals
40:08and markets
40:09direct to consumer
40:10where we get our best margin
40:12The UK barbecue
40:13and outdoor living industry
40:14is a growing sector
40:16with 9 out of 10 UK households
40:18owning and using a barbecue
40:20So with the barbecue
40:22and outdoor living industry
40:23growing massively
40:24now is the time
40:25to invest in a brand
40:26that could become
40:27the market leader
40:29So dragons
40:30grab your ticket
40:31to flavour town
40:35A range of barbecue
40:37inspired seasonings
40:38and sauces
40:39is the offering
40:40from brothers
40:41Jayden
40:41and Brendan Manders
40:44So you have our three sauces
40:46and some tortilla chips
40:47The red one is our
40:48hunks hot sauce
40:49we've then got a backyard
40:50barbecue sauce
40:51and a mango and chilli
40:53The duo are seeking £90,000
40:56That is you on there
40:57isn't it?
40:58That is you
40:58That is definitely you
41:00In fact he's almost
41:01wearing the same shirt
41:02In return
41:03for a 20% share
41:05of their business
41:06So I urge you to try the hot sauce
41:07because it's a Louisiana style
41:09so it's vinegar based
41:10which moulds it a little bit
41:12their hot sauce is so good
41:14Their product samples
41:16might have already
41:17raised temperatures
41:18in the den
41:19but the dragons are poised
41:21to turn the heat up
41:22even further
41:22and Sarah Davies
41:24is first to fire off
41:26some questions
41:30Brendan, Jayden
41:32Can I just say that
41:33that picture was
41:33really brilliant
41:34Thank you
41:34I mean that was gold star
41:36Thank you
41:37Yeah it really was
41:38So when did you say
41:39you started the business?
41:412020
41:422020
41:43So we started during
41:44the pandemic
41:45we went on a walk
41:47that Boris would allow you
41:48to do
41:48where we could go together
41:50Jayden
41:51at the time
41:52being an aspiring pilot
41:54wanted to
41:55start a business
41:56so he could go
41:57and get his pilot's licence
41:59so we had a bit
42:00of a conversation
42:01we pitched
42:01many ideas
42:03loads of stuff
42:04we made candles
42:05car boots
42:06sales
42:06everything beforehand
42:08then we basically
42:09because our grandad
42:10had this
42:11brick built barbecue
42:12we'd all fight over
42:13his chicken legs
42:14because he'd do really
42:15crispy skin on the chicken
42:16put beer on them
42:17and stuff
42:18and then I pitched the
42:19idea to
42:20do the seasonings
42:22started with just
42:23the barbecue rub
42:24back then we didn't
42:25even have a website
42:26but we launched the
42:27product
42:28built up a bit of hype online
42:30and then
42:30yeah
42:31and we made a hundred
42:32to start with
42:33and then
42:34we would just message people
42:35on Instagram
42:36asking them to paypal us money
42:38so we would send them a barbecue seasoning
42:40and somehow people did
42:41and then we've evolved the business
42:43to what you guys can see today
42:44love it
42:44so talk me through the numbers then
42:46what was that first year like?
42:48so first year's turnover
42:49£5,700
42:51and a net loss of £11,000
42:54year two we turned over £29,500
42:57with a net loss of £6,500
42:59in year three we turned over £82,000
43:03with a net profit of £8,000
43:05and our current year to date
43:07we've turned over £70,000
43:08and we're projecting to do £220,000
43:11by the end of the year
43:12with a £33,000 net profit
43:16by the end of the year
43:16in our two year projection
43:18next year we're hoping to do £450,000
43:21and a £59,000 net profit
43:23and the year after that
43:25£875,000
43:26and a net profit of £140,000
43:29I mean I'll let you just go there
43:31even though I hadn't asked that question
43:32because I could tell you've spent ages
43:34memorising their numbers
43:35and you're like
43:35the sooner I can get them out
43:36the sooner they've written them down
43:37the sooner I can stop stretching
43:38it's like doing a speech at a wedding isn't it?
43:40it is, it is
43:41I've got that out of the way now
43:42now I can have a drink
43:42absolutely
43:43we've been going down the
43:44even driving here in the van
43:46we were like
43:47just punching numbers out to each other
43:49remember the numbers
43:50remember the numbers
43:50what's the year three gross profit
43:53yeah
43:53yeah
43:54that's brilliant
43:55you've done great
43:56thank you
43:56thank you
43:58so where are you making the products?
44:00so we're from Birmingham
44:01we've got a small warehouse there
44:03that's where we make everything
44:05and so how does that work?
44:06you come up with a recipe
44:07and you physically make it
44:09or is somebody making it for you?
44:11I'm big on doing everything in-house
44:14whether that's marketing, manufacturing, anything
44:16so we'll come up with a flavour between us
44:19lots of back and forth
44:20once we finalise the recipe
44:21we then make it into big drums
44:23fill the tins
44:24shrink wrap them
44:25date them
44:26do the necessary paperwork
44:28and then they go on the shelves
44:29and how many people have you got working in that?
44:31so it's just me and my brother
44:33we do have a small team
44:34that help us direct to consumer
44:37of about two to three people
44:38where we need them
44:39so because we do a lot of shows of a weekend
44:42who's
44:42sorry you're actually filling the tins?
44:44yeah
44:44the two of you are doing that
44:46I love that
44:48yeah I love it too
44:49I love it
44:50I love it
44:54guys
44:55how old are you?
44:56I'm 21
44:57you're 21?
44:58yeah
44:59how old are you?
45:00I'm 31
45:0131 okay so you're 10 years apart
45:02yeah
45:03I work with my brother too
45:05and it does work well
45:06because our brains are just completely different
45:07but obviously you have this binding force of trust
45:10your parents
45:11what do they do?
45:12where do you come from?
45:13so we're from a single parent background
45:16there's actually two other siblings in our family
45:18so my mum raised us on her own
45:22sorry
45:23it's okay
45:26take your time
45:31I'll just continue with the story there
45:33so our mum raised us on her own
45:36so we come from a council house background
45:39she's a healthcare assistant
45:40so she's always worked her hardest
45:42we've always had nice Christmases
45:43nice birthdays
45:44so the work ethic in our family is
45:46right go out there and get it
45:48yeah
45:48and then yeah
45:49so there we go
45:50and then
45:53we've sort of obviously been a very tight-knit family
45:55me and Brendan have always been together
45:57yeah and then we've just got such
45:59I could just beam that light
46:01we've got such good work ethic and determination
46:03you don't need to beam it because it shows
46:06some people just have that sort of life force
46:08and you can tell that this isn't just a game to them
46:12this isn't just a hobby
46:13they're really fighting for something
46:14yeah
46:15and that's really important
46:16because business is hard
46:18and it takes a certain type of person
46:20to persist in the face of the inevitable adversity
46:23yeah
46:23and so one of the things I always like to check
46:25is the character of the people that I'm investing in
46:26and I think based on everything you've said
46:28that's a huge huge tick from me
46:30a huge tick
46:31so well done
46:32thank you
46:35Brendan and Jayden
46:37I love the energy
46:38thank you
46:39and it's a family business
46:43let me just ask you a question
46:44have you been approached by any big supermarket chain?
46:49not at the moment
46:51so we were to begin with very anti supermarket
46:54because we were doing very very well in the garden centres
46:57and the farm shops
46:57brilliant margins for us
46:59but we recently did the farm shop and deli show
47:01and it just opened our eyes
47:02everyone was saying to us
47:03they need to go on the supermarket shelves
47:05and I think this is where we might need a bit of help
47:07okay
47:08so if you went into a supermarket
47:10and looked at like for like
47:12how do you stand there on price?
47:15so
47:16at the moment
47:18it's quite a premium product
47:20everything that you see
47:21retails for £6
47:22it currently costs us
47:24around about £1.30
47:26to make the product at the moment
47:28we can smash that way below a pound
47:30so there is the opportunity to bring the RRP down
47:35in order to get into the supermarket
47:36you said you were 21 right?
47:38yes
47:38you're brilliant
47:39thank you
47:40brilliant
47:40I've been watching Dragon's Den
47:41I've got a 21 year old daughter
47:45you're so impressive
47:45and I'm sitting here listening to you
47:48and I'm just
47:50taken aback
47:50seriously
47:52I mean you are
47:53you are
47:54one of the brightest
47:5621 year olds ever
47:58to enter this den
47:59thank you so much
48:01do you want to hear from the East Wing ever?
48:03please
48:04in year 11
48:04it won the Bill Gates Award
48:06to be most likely to become a millionaire
48:09yes
48:09yes
48:10I love it
48:11thank you
48:12thank you
48:15so
48:16at what point
48:18do you
48:20realise that
48:21making it yourselves
48:22is not going to
48:24work
48:24because you need capacity
48:26yeah
48:27and I think
48:27should the
48:29should the business go down
48:31grow to a point
48:32we would all
48:32we would always have to look at
48:34going down maybe the Copac route
48:35because
48:36you know
48:37if it was to get
48:38get into supermarkets
48:39and things like that
48:40then it may become
48:41unrealistic for us to do that in house
48:44we fill in a large capacity now
48:46with just me and my brother
48:48so at the moment
48:49you've given some predictions
48:50do you believe
48:51that under your
48:52present premises
48:53that you can
48:54grow it
48:55to 800,000 a year
48:57where you are now?
48:59I believe so yes
49:01purely because
49:01um
49:03seasonings being one of our biggest products
49:04the seasonings are actually quite simple to make
49:06right
49:07and at the moment we have no machinery
49:09so it's all done
49:10manually
49:11so the
49:12there's a huge scope here
49:14machinery
49:15not only would it lower the cost of production
49:17we can then output more
49:18hence
49:19still keeping it in house
49:20so I'm not dead against a co-packer
49:23but I would always try and use it as like a last resort
49:27Jada, Brendan
49:28um
49:33your backstory really resonates with me
49:35um
49:36and I know this market really really well
49:38um
49:39obviously
49:41um
49:41having invested in Levi Roots
49:44with Reggae Reggae Sauce
49:47this is really tough though
49:48because
49:49um
49:51I think
49:51I think it is a
49:52it's a really tough business
49:55and I'd like you to
49:56really urge you to go
49:58and look for that co-packer
50:00and work with a co-packer to grow it
50:02because even some of the big brands just
50:04it's all outsourced
50:05it's volume play
50:07so Sandy I'm not going to want to invest in this business
50:11but I also am not investing knowing that you're going to go on to better things
50:16so I'm going to say that I'm out and wish you the very very best
50:20thank you
50:23guys
50:23you might remember I invested in a
50:26a business not overly dissimilar for this in my very first season
50:29and um
50:31it's a really really tough market
50:33they were doing the same model as you
50:35they were
50:36MacTalk
50:36they were going from a
50:37you know
50:38farm shops
50:40doing a lot of the food festivals
50:41and wanting to build up and get into the supermarkets
50:44which required a massive shift in their manufacturing
50:48how they brought to market
50:49and we worked on it for five years
50:52before we ended up giving him his shares back
50:54Right
50:54because I felt like I'd done everything I could on that journey
50:57it was really difficult
50:58and so from a personal perspective
51:00this is just not a journey
51:02I feel like I want to go on
51:05so I'm sorry guys I'm out
51:07thank you
51:08no problem
51:08thank you
51:10guys
51:12I think you're both great
51:13you know
51:13thank you
51:15however
51:16I look at the business
51:18you know
51:18and I look at
51:20will I ever get my money back
51:23and I think
51:23what you've actually shown me here
51:26is
51:27I'll probably get it back in 10 years time
51:30I've never invested in something like this
51:32and I know it's tough
51:34I don't see how I can really help you
51:39so I'm out
51:40no problem
51:41thank you very much
51:42thank you
51:49silence is usually good by the way
51:57so the reason I'm pausing is because
51:58my heart is saying
52:00you guys are great
52:01I'd love to work with you
52:01I think there's lots that I can help you with
52:03from many different perspectives
52:04and then my head is saying
52:05you know
52:07from an investment standpoint
52:09is this something that I'm like
52:10deeply interested in
52:13and the two really matter for me
52:17but unfortunately
52:17I'm not that passionate about sauce
52:20so
52:21as an investment opportunity
52:22it's not for me today
52:23so I'm going to say that I'm out
52:24but I wish you the very very best
52:25thank you so much
52:26I don't know you but I'm very proud of you
52:27I really appreciate it
52:28thank you
52:31so guys
52:32you've heard all these lovely words
52:34and then
52:34and then you've seen some dragons go out
52:37so it must be a little confusing
52:38but let me tell you where I am
52:41you've got
52:42both of you got big success in front of you
52:44I'm not convinced this is the uber success
52:47and actually
52:48even if you hit the numbers that you're looking at
52:51I'm probably looking at
52:52maybe doubling
52:53maybe
52:54my money over the next five years
52:56which in terms of opportunity
52:59that sounds like a lot
53:00but we have lots of opportunity
53:02to put our money in places
53:04you know
53:04and we can see some really really big growth
53:07you've got success ahead of you
53:09so I don't worry for you
53:11sometimes people stand in the den
53:14and I worry for them
53:15I don't worry for you
53:16you know
53:17you've got it
53:18but this isn't it for me I'm afraid
53:20so I'm out
53:21thank you
53:22thank you
53:26and so there was one
53:29you know
53:30you know
53:30I'm
53:31I listen to everything that you two said
53:34and
53:35you know
53:36I
53:36I kind of agree with
53:38every dragon that is sitting up here right now
53:41this probably is not a
53:44a space that particularly interests me
53:47gets me up and excited in the morning
53:50and you know what
53:50I look at you two right now
53:52and I could find 20 floors in this business
53:55I think the packaging needs work
53:56I think you need to move to a co-packer
53:58I think there's a million things that you could do to really optimize and turn it on
54:04but I think at the end of the day
54:07sometimes
54:09just sometimes
54:10it's not necessarily about
54:13whether or not I can see an immediate return in my money
54:18sometimes
54:20there's this thing that we say you know in the US it's about paying it forward
54:25and sometimes you just got to take a chance
54:28because the two people standing in front of you feel way too familiar
54:34I sat and listened to you single mum
54:37the same
54:38same
54:38over here
54:39and I think about myself at your age actually 21 and 31
54:44which were real distinctive periods for me in my life
54:49at 21 I was like I just need to get out of where I am
54:52and like move forward in life
54:54and at 31 things had started happening for me
54:58and in between
54:59I had some people that believed in me and gave me a little bit of money
55:03and so
55:05with all that being said
55:06and I'm trying to stop myself from crying
55:07because there's just something about you two that just makes me like
55:11caught up
55:12so I'm going to give you the 90,000
55:14I'm going to give you it for the what you ask the 20% of your business
55:18because I believe in the two of you
55:21and you deserve that somebody takes a chance on you
55:24thank you
55:24so this is my opportunity just to pay it forward
55:26and we'll do some great business together
55:29and if it's here or if it's somewhere down the line in the future
55:31I don't really care
55:32but I actually do care about you two and that's what matters
55:35thank you
55:36so you've got your investment there's your money
55:44we've got a deal?
55:45we'd like to accept the offer
55:46I want to accept that then
55:51well done
55:51well done Emma
55:53I'm coming in for a cuddle
55:55because I've liked to be worth it so much
55:56you're so welcome
55:57bliss for the brothers from Birmingham
55:59I'm really proud of you
56:00thank you so much
56:01well done
56:01you've been really great
56:03who leave the den with 90,000 pounds
56:07and the backing of a dragon with the expertise to get their sauces and seasonings business really cooking
56:18we did it mate
56:24congratulations Emma
56:25do you know that was beautifully articulated
56:28it was
56:28that was absolutely lovely
56:30I couldn't let them walk out without a deal
56:33oh what just happened
56:34I know
56:35I just honestly can't thank Emma enough for taking a punt
56:38I know
56:38we will work our backsides off to be able to make sure she gets the money back
56:44and we take this business to the highest of heights
56:47yeah it's just surreal
57:02next time on Dragon's Den
57:04I want to tell you a story
57:06about how one bite changed my life
57:08everybody has their own opinion
57:09I mean the fact that Sarah's obviously
57:11deluded
57:12that I don't add more value
57:13listen I could pretend but I love it
57:15you are actually individually the definition of human beauty
57:20well you got 10%
57:21and I'm wondering do I undercut them or not
57:24it's the only chance you got to get it
57:25if there is
57:45well you have to love it
57:55exactly