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How would you approach Jayden Daniels' injury?
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00:00Expect stress, I would say.
00:01Expect a lot of stress because you're an NFL quarterback in the pocket.
00:06Yeah.
00:06Running around and getting landed on.
00:08Welcome back, Grant and Danny on the fan.
00:09That's the voice of Michael Alea, sports orthopedic surgeon at NYU.
00:14Show's brought to you by the law firm Kondorian Murad.
00:16Phones are open at 800-636-1067.
00:19We're going to hit the lines in a minute.
00:21We are double-clicking on the last thing we got to with him,
00:26which is the timeline after surgery.
00:28Six- to 12-month recovery to get cleared for contact.
00:32If you wait until after the season in January, I'm just doing math.
00:36That's all I'm doing.
00:37You come back right at the start of training camp, best case scenario, or after.
00:42And there's a possibility if it's closer to a 12-month recovery,
00:46which I guess based on, I'm literally basing this on his age
00:49and the fact that he works really hard, which is probably not how it works,
00:52but I would assume it's not a 12-month recovery.
00:54But if it is for whatever reason,
00:57that gets you a season of football coming up where he's not cleared for contact in 2027.
01:05So, I don't know if he needs surgery or not.
01:07There's a lot of information we don't have and the doctor we talked to does not have.
01:11Okay?
01:11I couldn't possibly have it.
01:12Of course.
01:14All I'm saying is, if surgery's on the table, they should do it as soon as possible.
01:20Now, if he's not going to have surgery, either because he does not want to
01:23or because the people that are looking at the elbow are saying,
01:26you don't need to, it's not a game changer,
01:28the chances of you re-injuring this if you wear a brace are 15%.
01:32The chances of you re-injuring this if you have surgery and wear a brace or don't is 8%.
01:38And that 7% is not a big enough difference for him to want to go under the knife
01:42or to have to deal with the lengthy and awful recovery that would lie ahead.
01:47Fine.
01:48I'm not suggesting he has to have surgery.
01:50But my point, and I want to see if people agree or disagree,
01:54is if you're going to have surgery, it should not be after this year.
01:58It has to be now.
01:59For what?
02:00What would be?
02:01I know he wants to play football.
02:02That's what he does.
02:03Just like you want to come in and talk on the radio or do stand up
02:06and just like, I want to hang out with my kids.
02:08It's what makes him happy.
02:09I get it.
02:10You got to protect him a little bit from himself if that's the case.
02:14And the guys that are doing it, by the way, Peters, Dan Quinn,
02:18you know, they're, if they tell him, let's have surgery,
02:21going into a third season here.
02:23Yeah, there's a right now incentive for them.
02:24After a 5-12, if Dan Quinn's team goes 4-13, he could be fired.
02:28Like, you need Jaden Daniels on that wall for you right now.
02:32So the whole thing is super complicated.
02:36But the only takeaway I really have from that conversation is
02:39having surgery this offseason is a bad idea.
02:42If you're doing it, it's got to happen now.
02:45Yeah, I agree.
02:46With a slightly different track to get to the same place.
02:48What I can't believe, and again, not an expert medically at all,
02:52and I think that always needs to be important here,
02:55but it happens so easily.
02:57It was such a minimal thing that led to this pretty significant deal
03:02in terms of the elbow.
03:03I can't believe it's just a, all right, let's patch him up and go
03:07in a week or two weeks or three weeks, doing the same dance we did last year.
03:10I thought last year was ridiculous, to be honest with you,
03:12with how gruesome it looked.
03:13But again, I take everyone at face value.
03:15Now you've lost face value to me because it just happened on a nothing burger.
03:18It happened on a nothing play.
03:20And the idea that we can just wave our hand at it and say,
03:23he's good to go.
03:24I checked him out.
03:25Oh my, oh, mm-mm-mm-mm.
03:26Nuh-uh.
03:27You lost that privilege with how easily that happened.
03:29If a 300-pound lineman, you know, had him in an awkward spot
03:33and slammed him down, okay, that's terrible luck.
03:36So you can see Jackson Dart last night.
03:37That was such a nothing that did that injury that you can't tell me
03:42that it's just fine with like a week or two and some Band-Aids
03:45and some Advil.
03:46There's no way to me.
03:48So, and the idea then that we'll just plan for this later
03:51when it's more convenient to us, you're not getting the more convenient.
03:54Something else is going to happen if you just tried him out there that way.
03:56That's my view.
03:57Let's go to the phones.
03:58Fred's in Bristow on Grant and Danny.
04:01Fred, what do you think?
04:03Well, guys, first of all, thanks for taking my call.
04:06I've been listening to you all since you've been on the air, literally,
04:10and I love your show.
04:11Appreciate you.
04:13I couldn't disagree with you more.
04:15I personally think that Jaden should play the rest of this season.
04:22He's got three superpowers.
04:25He's got the poise.
04:27He's got the extreme athleticism.
04:31And he's got intelligence.
04:33And those three things, when you combine them, I mean,
04:38he can fall so that he won't injure that arm or re-injure it again.
04:44If he had realized that that arm is susceptible to that,
04:48he could have curled up and just taken the fall on the ground.
04:53That's all you have to do.
04:54He can protect it until it can get better,
04:57and he can have full use of it again.
05:00I think the brace will certainly help him do that.
05:03I disagree, though, that he'll have it front of mind
05:06and will be able to make those decisions in real time.
05:09It's too fast of a game.
05:11Maybe while falling after getting tripped by his offensive lineman,
05:16he would have the ability in that moment to kind of fall in a different way
05:20and not put his arm down.
05:22But there's going to be a million other times where you're getting tackled,
05:25Seattle game, where you're falling to the ground after getting hit
05:29and falling away like a fadeaway.
05:32How many times do you see a quarterback hit as they're turning from the contact
05:36and they land on their arms or whatever?
05:38Happens all the time.
05:39Just too fast of a game, too violent of a game.
05:42You cannot control how you fall.
05:44But if the point is he won't get hurt because the brace will keep him
05:47from getting hurt, I'll buy that.
05:49Now, the orthopedic surgeon said it's not a foolproof thing,
05:53and he could absolutely have gotten hurt even the way he fell wearing a brace
05:58because it doesn't prevent you from the torquing
06:00and kind of that lateral twisting that happens when you go down.
06:04Let's go to Joseph in Silver Spring.
06:05What's up, Joseph?
06:07Hi, guys.
06:08My big thing is that I'm worried that if he needs the surgery,
06:11if he doesn't need the surgery, then okay.
06:13But if he does need the surgery, that there will be pressure,
06:15especially on the Dan Quinn end, that he won't get the surgery.
06:18Because remember, if we have another season like last year,
06:20Dan Quinn's out of a job.
06:22We saw this game with RG3 at the same time.
06:25RG3 was pushed in too early because, not because of RG3's actual timeline,
06:30but because Shanahan was afraid he was going to get fired.
06:32And quite honestly, for Peters as well, you take away Jaden.
06:35What do you have?
06:35You've got Benson and Luke McCaffrey as your record of draft.
06:39You've got the Lattimore trade.
06:40So Peters also did have pressure here because his seat's not exactly cold either.
06:45I appreciate the call.
06:46I certainly understand that point, and I brought it up.
06:49I mean, the people that you're asking to do the right thing, essentially,
06:53and I'm going to use Quinn specifically here, his job, I feel like, more so than Peters.
06:57You could throw Peters into the equation if you want to.
06:59But I think generally GMs get a couple of coaches.
07:02That's just how it normally would work.
07:03Doesn't mean it definitively will.
07:05He made the choice of Dan Quinn.
07:06But it does feel like Dan Quinn is a 4-13 away from being out of here.
07:11And you saw it last year without Daniels.
07:13You went 5-12.
07:14That's what happened last year.
07:16So I get that point.
07:18I have nothing to base this on other than just I think people are at their core pretty good.
07:23And I think Dan Quinn's a good dude.
07:25And I do believe he would prioritize Jaden Daniels' well-being, career, the health of the player mentally and physically
07:34over this season's record.
07:39Because two reasons.
07:41One, I think even if he knew he was going to get fired if he comes back, if he knew
07:44he was putting him at risk, he wouldn't do that.
07:45I just think he's a really good dude.
07:47But secondly, that's not how coaches think.
07:49I promise you, Dan Quinn is not in the building right now going,
07:52we're about to be 0-6 and I'm going to be fired.
07:54When he said yesterday, like, we're 0-2 right now, but we're not staying here.
07:58I think he really means that.
08:00He thinks they're going to beat Seattle on Sunday.
08:02Now, I agree with him.
08:03They're not staying there because I think they're going to be 0-3 soon.
08:05Because Seattle's coming here.
08:06But we have very different reasons on why he's saying that.
08:09Sure, yeah.
08:10There's a reason you get to that level.
08:11He thinks he can win with Mariota.
08:13He thinks he can win with the next guy up.
08:14So I don't think he views it like the rest of us.
08:17Like, it's either Daniel saving their bacon or they're in big trouble.
08:20I think he goes, all right, let's rock and roll.
08:23Anybody, anybody, anybody?
08:24Anytime, anybody, anytime.
08:25And he's just on to the next in that space.
08:27Well, also, let's just say for the sake of argument that he's the advocate for,
08:31hey, we can have you back in a couple weeks and let's strap it on and see what we can
08:35do.
08:36That's a voice at the table.
08:37That's not definitive.
08:38Does that make any sense?
08:39This isn't Friday Night Lights.
08:41He's not Bud Kilmer commanding Wendell to get the shot.
08:45You see what I'm saying?
08:46It's a doctor's decision.
08:47Well, the choice at the end of the day is up to Daniels.
08:50I mean, the options will be presented.
08:51So you heard the doctor kept saying indicated for surgery.
08:54You said the choice, surgery or no surgery.
08:57Right.
08:57Because he's the one going under the knife.
08:59But when he comes back is not up to him, right?
09:06No, of course not.
09:07So doctors will advocate one way or the other.
09:10Coaches generally just do what the doctor says.
09:12This is the thing about Shanahan.
09:13You and so many people were angry at him because the idea is he should have gone above and beyond
09:18or done more than what the doctor wanted.
09:20James Andrews and the doctors are going, he's perfectly fine.
09:23He can play.
09:24There's no reason he can't.
09:25And people got mad that he didn't essentially protect the player and kind of do more.
09:29But he'll tell you to this day, and his out is always, he can go to bed at night because
09:33the doctors tell me, I'm not a doctor, he can play or he can't, and then we played him.
09:38This is kind of that.
09:40If you're Dan Quinn and the doctors come to you and say he's medically cleared for contact,
09:44if he wears a brace, it's a lower chance, and the player goes, I want to take the chance,
09:49what do you do?
09:50So I just mean, let's say there's Peters, Quinn, Daniels and his camp, whoever that happens
09:58to be, and a medical professional in the room.
10:00The options will be, I'm assuming it's going this way, you could get surgery, which means
10:04your season's done, but you'll be able to rehab and come back 100% by next year.
10:08We believe we can stabilize at XYZ, whatever, right?
10:10Whatever, we're going to that.
10:11The other is, we can do our best, put the brace on, and I'll make up the, it's a 24
10:16% chance
10:16something like this could happen again, or 36.
10:18And Quinn may be saying, ooh, let's take that.
10:21He may advocate for that.
10:22I have no idea if he would or not, but like, let's take, let's, I don't want to get rid
10:26of this season.
10:26You're too much of a competitor.
10:27You're a dog.
10:28Come lead this team.
10:29Come do that.
10:29That's just a voice at the table.
10:31That's a perspective.
10:33Daniels doesn't have to do that.
10:34He could say, probably the best thing for me is to do surgery, or I do want to come
10:38back.
10:38You see what I'm saying?
10:39My point is there are different voices in that room.
10:41I would hope somebody, whether it's Peters, does the, hey, here's what this potential
10:46timeline is, and this doesn't make a lot of sense for us, and that most recent injury,
10:51because it was so, such a small event that led to it, put the fear of God in me a
10:55little
10:55bit.
10:55Let's make, let's stabilize this thing and take every precaution.
10:57I got your point completely.
10:58Right.
10:58What I'm asking is, if Daniels and the doctor come to Quinn and say, he is cleared, and
11:04he goes, I want to play, and they go, there's a 15% chance of re-aggravation if he wears
11:09the brace, but he's totally cleared.
11:11This is just a pain threshold thing, which is the phrasing I've heard out of there is
11:15like, it's a pain tolerance deal at this point.
11:19What should Dan Quinn do?
11:20That's what I'm asking.
11:21I remember you and a lot of people were angry at Shanahan, but the doctor and the player
11:25were saying, let's play football.
11:26Should the coach go against that and go above and beyond?
11:30I'm not trying to lead the witness.
11:32I'm asking a real question.
11:34Well, if I get, okay, to go back to that, if the same thing happens where he may be cleared,
11:40but now he's limping around after a touchdown pass in the Seattle game and clearly doesn't
11:44look right, then you pull the plug.
11:46I don't know what that would look like with an elbow.
11:48Yeah.
11:48Exactly.
11:49But if, yeah, in general, you just go, hey, I got my alibi.
11:53That's not the right word.
11:54I got my, get out of jail.
11:55Nobody can be mad at me because the player and the doctor said he's good to go, so he's
11:59good to go.
11:59He was limping in the Dallas game the whole time when they won the division with Alfred
12:02running for 200.
12:03You know what I mean?
12:04And the doctors are saying he's totally fine.
12:06It's pain tolerance.
12:07This is part of it.
12:08And then he's limping in the Seattle game and it obviously got worse.
12:12And then he tore his ACL.
12:14Let's go to Willie in New York City, listening on the Odyssey app.
12:17What's up?
12:19What's going on, guys?
12:20Big fan of the program.
12:21Thanks for taking my call.
12:22Hey, dude.
12:24So I think Jaden has to be back on the field.
12:27I think this experiment, we can't just punch on another season.
12:30If he's medically cleared, if he's ready to go, you have to put him back out there, brace
12:35him up and let him play.
12:37We can't just keep waiting around.
12:39We're not talking about the mental aspects.
12:41He already looked nervous in the preseason against Detroit.
12:43He looked nervous first three quarters against the Eagles.
12:46What is it going to do mentally to him to sit out another season and not be on a football
12:51field?
12:51That's a good point.
12:52Now, I would ask if you agree with me, then that means he doesn't have surgery, period.
12:58No surgery.
12:59So, yeah, I mean, I'm okay with no surgery and him playing with the brace on if that's
13:05what he wants to do and the doctors say he can do and is okay doing.
13:11My point is just once you get to the winter, no surgery.
13:15I start with that.
13:16Everything else after that, I don't really care as much.
13:19But there will be no surgery in the winter that affects next season.
13:23For me, that's the worst case scenario.
13:25So I think your summary would be no January surgery.
13:29If you want to do that before or never do it, totally fine.
13:32Yeah.
13:32But we're not doing it at that time.
13:34Decide what you want to.
13:35Go talk amongst yourselves.
13:36The answer cannot be postseason surgery.
13:38You either get surgery and you're repaired now.
13:41The 2024 season, a healthy, elite-level Jaden Daniels is the only thing that matters.
13:48This season, Marcus, Ethan Kaliak-Manus, Case Keenum in a trade for a future seventh-round pick.
13:55I don't give a damn.
13:56Someone's starting at quarterback.
13:57I'll sign Josh Johnson again eventually.
13:59I'll do it again.
14:00I'll do it three times.
14:01I'll do it.
14:02But I'm not going to have surgery in the winter.
14:06So if you don't want to have surgery, okay.
14:10This thing better not pop out again, by the way.
14:12Yeah.
14:13If you want to keep coming to me and telling me no surgery and the doctors are going to tell
14:16me how little the chance is with the brace on,
14:20I'll go to that podium after his arm pops out and I'll throw every damn one of you under the
14:24bus.
14:24If I'm Dan Quinn.
14:25My question, if you came to me with, hey, we're not doing surgery.
14:27What was the chance last time?
14:29What was that chance?
14:30I will in that space you until next week.
14:32I will to-go you until tomorrow.
14:33We're going to to-go so hard.
14:34I am going to to-go all of you in the to-go window in the in that space restaurant.
14:38The following people.
14:39Here are the names who told me it would be fine.
14:42Beep.
14:43No problem, guys.
14:44You want to play football?
14:45Great.
14:45Let's play football.
14:46No surgery after the season, right?
14:48Okay, great.
14:49That thing better not ever pop out again.
14:51By the way, if he comes back and it pops out again, I think people lose their jobs.
14:54That's my opinion.
14:56It's going to be so publicly embarrassing and humiliating, organizationally speaking.
15:02It's going to be- think about the narratives nationally.
15:05I mean, we're going to go through some of the audio here in a bit.
15:07But what's being said already about- I think they handled it well.
15:11I really do.
15:12I think they handled this pretty cleanly, according to every doctor and every medical expert.
15:16But it still looks awful.
15:18What's the next one going to look like?
15:19I mean, it's griffiny all over again.
15:22You put them at risk.
15:23You did this and that.
15:24People don't know the inside story.
15:25They just know that it looks like the player performing for the coach hurt himself, and everyone
15:31acts like it's Kilmer and Wendell.
15:33Let's go to Alex in Leesburg.
15:35What's up?
15:37Hey, Rafael, fellas.
15:38Thanks for taking my call.
15:40Here's what I think.
15:41I think, just as I wasn't a high athlete, but I was an athlete of my youth, I think you
15:47- if
15:48Jaden wants to, I think you let him play and let him feel it.
15:52But you've got to have a good conversation with him.
15:54Because if it happens again, or if he- because last time he got hurt, right?
15:58I don't think he dislocated it twice.
15:59Did he dislocate it twice?
16:01Or he just got hurt?
16:02The second one was this weekend.
16:03The Minnesota play, like always, they still haven't said he broke his ribs.
16:08We have no idea what happened.
16:09But he landed on it.
16:10Oh, okay, okay, okay.
16:10Now they're saying, you know, it wasn't that bad of an injury.
16:14He could have played after that.
16:15We shut him down.
16:16But he landed on it.
16:17He was in a lot of pain.
16:18He came out of the game.
16:19We don't know what he did.
16:20And again, if that's how he feels, I think you test it.
16:24If he can go, right?
16:25I think it is up to him.
16:27But if he can go, you test it.
16:29Because I do hear a lot.
16:30I've heard, you know, I've heard you- I heard the 106.7 all day today.
16:34And I've heard a couple of different doctors.
16:36Some say Brace is going to really protect it, especially since it's not a throwing hand,
16:42and so on and so forth.
16:43And I just heard the guy you had on.
16:45I would let him- I would test it.
16:46Because if he gets hurt in the next four weeks, your timeline is still your timeline, right?
16:53That's the timeline.
16:54He would still make it to start next year.
16:57I do agree, though.
16:58If it goes through and he doesn't need surgery and it's good, I think he'd leave it alone.
17:04Well, not if it's the back end.
17:06I mean, you're assuming the six-month recovery.
17:08It's six to 12 months.
17:10I'm going to take the mean of nine.
17:12Anytime I hear four to six weeks, I just- for the sake of the planning-
17:15Let's just do five.
17:16Let's do five, right?
17:17So that's a nine-month recovery from, let's say, three weeks from now.
17:21So that is October into next year gets you to basically into training camp, like late training camp-ish.
17:31So you've cost him the start of camp, and it does.
17:35It affects next season pretty dramatically.
17:37That's why I think this is of some timely essence here, right?
17:42800-636-1067.
17:44Super complicated.
17:45Really, really difficult stuff that we're diving into with Jaden Daniels.
17:49How he feels, what he wants to do is going to be at the core of this, as it should.
17:53Now, the other thing is, I've never had a surgery.
17:55I guess technically I have.
17:57I had my appendix taken out and did a-
17:59That counts.
18:00And did a- while they were in there, they're like, oh, by the way, we just happened to
18:04fix a sports hernia or whatever.
18:07Like, you had a hernia.
18:08Did you know that?
18:08I'm like, nope, didn't know that.
18:09And they're like, oh, we took care of it while we were in there.
18:11And I'm like, thanks, appreciate it.
18:12Cool.
18:13Anything else you did that you were going to tell me about?
18:14I was going to say, you're poking around?
18:15But, right, exactly.
18:16Who knows you're fine.
18:17But I totally get, I was talking to Toby about this, people that are nervous about
18:22or don't want to have surgery, it's not fun.
18:25No, it's not.
18:25Like, you go to sleep, you wake up, it's weird, you're being in a hospital, you're
18:29naked around people.
18:30I mean, as an athlete, you don't care that much about that, maybe.
18:32But, you know, it's not a cool thing to go have surgery.
18:36It's not like a, hey, it's Tuesday, I should probably go under the knife.
18:39It's like, not that fun.
18:40But if your career, future, hundreds of millions of dollars are on the line here.
18:44Yeah, it's part of the deal.
18:46How many players do you know that think about three, five, seven years down the road
18:50and not four weeks from now, I got a chance to shred the Niners on Monday Night Football?
18:55You know that's what's in the back of his mind, is the comeback, under the lights,
18:59the primetime game where you put on a show and everyone talks about, you know,
19:03how you recovered quick and you're a tough guy playing through this.
19:06800-636-1067 on the fan.
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