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00:00Sal Capaccio with us now on the West Her Hotline.
00:05Sal, how was practice today?
00:08Good weather. Nice. It was not super hot.
00:12It's not really cold yet.
00:14Perfect.
00:15It was interesting to see them wearing different uniforms than normal.
00:20They were wearing their Nickel City practice jerseys.
00:24So the offense was in the gray.
00:26The defense was in the white.
00:28In some cases, some guys were wearing red, obviously.
00:31But they were wearing those helmets as well.
00:33So, yeah, it was a little different today.
00:34Perfect weather.
00:36Today, I just went outside and stood there for like 10 minutes.
00:39Did nothing but just stand there and breathe it in, Bulldog.
00:41You ever do that?
00:43No.
00:44Football weather. It's football weather.
00:46I mean, quintessential football weather, I would say.
00:49Well, I know there's not a lot of new information here necessarily, Sal,
00:53but DJ Moore, for starters, what do we know?
00:57He practiced today in a red non-contact jersey.
01:00I don't know that we don't have the official injury report.
01:03Maybe it'll come out literally while we're on the radio here.
01:05That's happened a few times.
01:06Yep.
01:07My guess is he'll be limited, but you never know.
01:10And he said afterwards, we asked him, how did you feel?
01:13He said, I felt great.
01:14But he does have to go through the process and the protocols.
01:17He said it's really a little bit about pain tolerance, you know,
01:21before he's able to play on Sunday.
01:23You guys know that we've talked about his availability.
01:25He prides himself on that.
01:26So, you know, we'll see where it goes from now until Sunday.
01:30How big a deal if they have to be without him for, let's just say, for this week.
01:35I don't need to play it forward here because there's a chance he'll actually
01:37even play in this game.
01:38But with not him, if he's not in the offense, it felt to me like it was a little
01:45harder in the second half without him, but they also were ahead in score effects.
01:49So, I don't know.
01:50I wouldn't want to say that with great authority or anything, but I feel like even
01:56when he's not getting the ball, he's helping make that pass offense go.
02:00So, there's some degree of loss there if he's not there, right?
02:05Yes, for sure.
02:06I think it's a pretty big loss.
02:08He's very important to the offense, but this is doubled down by Keon Coleman did
02:13not practice today.
02:14So, you know, if he can't go, and we don't know that either, like he, we didn't
02:18see him today.
02:19And remember, he left the game with an ankle injury, he came back, and then he
02:23ultimately finished the game.
02:24But, you know, you lose one guy, you can say, okay, well, he can shuffle the deck
02:27a little bit.
02:28Now, you lose a second guy, you're shuffling the deck even more.
02:31Now, Skylar Bell, he has not played yet.
02:34He obviously would be a part of, you know, whatever they do offensively.
02:37You could put Greg Dortch in there, but just in himself, I agree.
02:41Not having DJ Moore, the offense definitely looked a little different right after that.
02:46I thought they did a good job of finding their way to it later in the game.
02:49But it's a big loss if you don't have him.
02:52I think Dalton Kincaid is a really important piece.
02:55He's not a wide receiver.
02:56He's a tight end.
02:57But what he's doing in the passing game right now, if you have him, you could still create
03:01many more matchups that you really believe are in your favor.
03:05But not having DJ Moore would certainly hurt.
03:07Yeah.
03:07I wonder if they are without Moore.
03:10Let's just play a scenario here.
03:12We already know that they are using 13 personnel, which means three tight ends, more than any
03:19team except for the Rams.
03:20I think the Rams are 39% through two games and the Bills are 38% are the numbers I
03:26have
03:26in my head.
03:26I hope that...
03:27I think it's close to accurate.
03:28If it's a little off, I apologize.
03:30But that's a mismatch advantage for the Bills.
03:34I think they feel especially more so if Kincaid is a respectable idea as run blocking and they've
03:42run plenty with him on the field as much as he's been on the field.
03:45Maybe you even get an uptick in that because they might feel like that's their best mismatch
03:51situation if they don't have DJ Moore.
03:54I wonder if they could get as high as 45-50% of snaps with three tight ends on the
04:00field.
04:01Yeah.
04:02I mean, look, I think the Bills feel, and I believe this, that they can beat you a number
04:07of ways offensively.
04:08They don't have to have Josh Allen just sit back and sling the ball.
04:11I mean, they have the league's leading rusher in James Cook, who last week looked like the
04:15league's leading rusher.
04:17And they can run these three tight ends at you and really put you in a bind.
04:21I think the Bills, you want to have all your horses.
04:24You want to have your main guys.
04:26You want to have DJ Moore.
04:27You want to have Dalton, Kincaid, everybody, Keon Coleman.
04:29No doubt.
04:30You know, the more you peck away, the tougher it gets for everybody.
04:34But I think the Bills, if they had to go into a game and knew, and in this case it
04:39would
04:39be the case because they're going to prepare for it knowing what the situation is with injuries,
04:43if they knew, okay, our best path here is to make sure that we run the ball really well,
04:49they can run the ball really well, and they'll be able to do that.
04:52And they still have Josh Allen, and I think they'd be still comfortable throwing the football.
04:55It's not like they're going to go and, you know, just go into some sort of turtle into
04:58a shell.
04:58But I agree.
04:59Like, they can put three tight ends in the field and feel very comfortable about doing
05:03a lot of things.
05:04I mean, the Bills really are, have been at the front of this trend.
05:09And it's really, like, one of the big talking points in the league so far this season is
05:14tight end usage.
05:15I mean, the Rams, too, and the Rams are no slouch either.
05:18So, really, the Bills, do you know any sort of origin story with it, Sal?
05:22I mean, it goes back a couple of years, at least.
05:26We have the Kincaid pick that Dorsey was hot for when they did that.
05:31I was just going to say all this.
05:31That's right.
05:32Go ahead.
05:32Take it.
05:33Yeah, no, this is not new for the Bills wanting to do it.
05:36And I remember, you know, a lot of people getting upset that, like, well, I can't believe it.
05:40Like, they really want to do this.
05:41They're really leaning so hard into this too tight end.
05:43It was really 12.
05:44It was two tight ends and really leaning into this.
05:46And it's not working.
05:47And why are they doing this?
05:49And, you know, they spent this first-round pick on Dalton Kincaid.
05:51But they really wanted to do it.
05:53I think it was Brandon Bean's vision, a lot of it, because he's still the guy picking the
05:56players.
05:56And he's still the guy in charge from when all that was happening.
05:59And they talked a lot about that.
06:01And that went back to their Carolina days.
06:02And even Sean McDermott talked about, heck, even going back to Philadelphia.
06:07And who was it?
06:08Who was Chad?
06:09Who was the tight end he had?
06:10Remember, Mike?
06:10The, um...
06:11Chad Tracy?
06:12That's not right, is it?
06:13No, I can't.
06:14Now, name escapes me now.
06:16Played with Donovan McNabb.
06:17Anyway, McDermott would talk about how important tight ends were.
06:20And then they go to Carolina.
06:21And together, they have these tight ends.
06:23And Jeremy Shockey and the guy doing the...
06:27Olsen.
06:27Greg Olsen, right?
06:28Like, this is something...
06:30That's the origin story.
06:31The origin story is where Sean...
06:33I'm sorry, Brandon Bean was.
06:35And Sean McDermott was.
06:36And having Ken Dorsey.
06:37And Joe Brady.
06:38And they were all a part of this.
06:39So, it kind of just kept growing.
06:40And then they get Dalton Kincaid.
06:42And they see how good and dynamic he can be.
06:44And how much of a mismatch.
06:45But he hasn't been healthy.
06:46And then you get to...
06:49Really, I think what happened was...
06:50A few years ago, they started saying,
06:52Okay, we can put an extra lineman on the field.
06:55And just really run at you and pound you.
06:58And then a new year later, maybe two years later,
07:00Oh, you know what?
07:01That lineman?
07:01Why don't we draft a tight end who can do that?
07:04And have a tight end number.
07:05And he can go out for passes.
07:07Now what are you going to do, pal?
07:09Did you want Brent Selleck?
07:12No.
07:12Clay Harbour?
07:13No.
07:14Trey?
07:15No.
07:15James Jesperson?
07:17I don't know.
07:17I'm sorry.
07:18The Philly Special?
07:19The name you said, I think, is the Red Sox manager.
07:22Chad Tracy.
07:22Chad Tracy.
07:23I know.
07:24That's right.
07:25Wasn't him?
07:26I don't think so.
07:27I'm going to go back and look.
07:28Now I'm getting upset now.
07:30I'm sorry.
07:31No, we hate to miss one.
07:32No, not at you guys.
07:34I'm just mad that I am.
07:35I know.
07:36We hate to miss one.
07:37We always look it up.
07:38We always look it up.
07:40When did they go to the Super Bowls with McNabb?
07:43Like early 2003?
07:442004.
07:452003.
07:46So 2004 was back then.
07:48And now I'm going to have to look at all this, and it's going to bother me that I don't
07:52know.
07:52Greg Lewis, no, he was a wide receiver.
07:55Right?
07:56So, yeah.
07:57I'll have to go back and look.
07:58But he did.
07:59Chad Lewis.
07:59Chad Lewis.
08:00Chad Lewis was the guy.
08:01I remember McDermott mentioning Chad Lewis's name.
08:05Also a Chad.
08:05Right.
08:06Say, I've got the Chad.
08:07I've got the five letters.
08:08I'm calling it a half win.
08:10You had 110 targets one year.
08:13And they just signed him yesterday to pair with Zach Ertz and their new offense with Goddard Ertz.
08:18There you go.
08:19Yeah, tough to go multiple tight ends if they keep going down.
08:23By the way, because we're kind of off the grid a little bit here, off the rails a little bit,
08:27but did you guys know that we're getting Tom Brady on Sunday?
08:31Yeah.
08:32You did know that?
08:32I did, yes.
08:33Okay, never mind.
08:35I guess I like it.
08:37I'm not a fan of his really for anything, but there is a little bit of juice when it comes
08:43to Allen and his, you know, what he says carries weight.
08:48Sure.
08:49And so, yeah, all right.
08:52That's it.
08:54Burkhart, right?
08:55Yep.
08:56Yes.
08:56Yes.
08:57He's really good.
09:00Sal Capaccio on the Western Hotline.
09:03Mike, show up in the bulldog here.
09:04You know what, I like Joe Buck now, so Burkhart is now the guy that drives me crazy with the
09:09wide open.
09:10Like, I feel like he's the most egregious offender of the wide open thing.
09:15It used to be Joe Buck, but Joe Buck has won me over, so I don't hear it when Joe
09:19Buck
09:20does it anymore, because I like him now.
09:21He's on my good side.
09:22You got so soft.
09:23I know.
09:24But no, I'm taking it out on Burkhart.
09:27Oh, okay.
09:27You just redirecting me.
09:29I'm reapportioning my unreasonable, ridiculous, unfounded hatred.
09:34So, I met Brady in L.A. a couple years ago when they did a game, and first time I'd
09:40ever
09:40really, I mean, I'd covered games, you know what I mean, and gone and watched him play,
09:44but like on the field, went up to him, said hello, shook his hand, and he's a much more
09:49like, he was much taller than I thought he was, like standing next to him like that,
09:53like, hey, how you doing, Tom?
09:54You know, yeah, and he was personable, you know, he was personable, I don't know, I
09:59don't think he's the number one guy, and you know, I think Olsen does a great job on those
10:04broadcasts, but you know, I think he's been better as time has gone on.
10:09Let's talk about the Chargers, unless there are, because I got distracted, unless there
10:13were things about the Bills, and TJ Sanders, did we cover him?
10:17No, appendectomy yesterday, thank you.
10:19He had an appendectomy last night, so he did not practice today, and I mean, I don't know.
10:24I don't know if that means he'll be able to play on Sunday, or even for a little while,
10:27I'm not really sure how that's going to go, so they did sign Austin Johnson to the practice
10:33squad, and he actually played with the Bills, remember, a couple years ago, he was on the
10:35team, he was on the active roster.
10:40He replaces, by the way, a practice squad spot of Andre Jones Jr., not the same position,
10:46he was a outside linebacker edge guy, who got signed by the Dolphins under their 53 this
10:51past week, so the Dolphins, on Monday, so the Dolphins took Andre Jones Jr. off the
10:56Bills' practice squad, so he now goes to their 53, Bills had an opening, TJ Sanders has an
11:01appendectomy, the Bills signed Austin Johnson to replace him.
11:04Okay, LA, I'm sure with the top Fox team, a lot is waiting to be said about the Chargers'
11:11start, two bad home losses to start the season.
11:15What is going on there, as far as you know?
11:20I just feel like there is a tough mix between the head coach, the offensive coordinator and
11:30philosophy, the quarterback, and the talent, meaning like, I don't doubt Mike McDaniel's
11:39acumen for offense.
11:40I think he's very good at what he does.
11:42I really respect how he can create mismatches in the run game, that's what he's known for.
11:47I don't think he suddenly forgot how to coach football.
11:51However, the book on Mike McDaniel, even when he was in, you know, Miami, and I guess before
11:58that, but especially Miami, I guess, but early on in Miami, the book on him is, and that system
12:04has always been, you really gotta have the right people.
12:08You can't just put, you can't just say, oh, this is my system, it's gonna work for everybody,
12:13right?
12:13Like, you gotta have the right people.
12:15This is kind of a Trey Lance Brock Purdy point, to be honest with you.
12:19Like, oh my God, look at the Niners, they're gonna put Trey Lance in this guy, like, he
12:24looks like Josh Allen the way out, the physical specimen.
12:26But you had to have a, you have to have a certain kind of quarterback to run that.
12:30And look, I think Justin Herbert is really talented.
12:33I think he can play in a lot of systems, but this just isn't fitting for him.
12:37It's not fitting for what they want to do offensively.
12:39Their offensive line is not fitting for what he wants to do.
12:43And then I think you have a defense, you have this coach who's a defensive minded coach who
12:47I think quite frankly thinks like a lot of old school coaches, unfortunately, in this
12:53day and age, and it's not working that Mike McDaniel's offense and Jim Harbaugh's philosophy
12:59aren't meshing.
13:00And I don't think Mike McDaniel has the right personnel to run his offense.
13:03It looks like also that they are again, troubled up front.
13:07And last year it was losing their tackles and like, yeah, now it's the interior.
13:12Now it's the middle.
13:12Right.
13:13So that's, you know, that's a tough one to overcome.
13:16Um, and, um, they're missing guys.
13:19They missed, they put two tight ends on IR this week.
13:23You know, I mean, David and Joku and Charlie Kolar.
13:26So that leaves a Rhonda Gadsden, Syracuse.
13:29People know him from there.
13:30He is their only healthy tight end going, you know, this week, start the week, at least
13:34I'm sure they'll do something there.
13:36And then you have Dalvin Tomlinson.
13:38He's a starting to fit an interior defensive lineman who's out.
13:41And you had Derwin James, who's going to be wearing a cast because he,
13:46broke his pinky or had ligaments damage or something and, and his pinky.
13:50So like, they're just, again, a mass unit basically coming into Buffalo.
13:54Technically they're not putting Kolar on IR.
13:57I saw the other day that they were going to, but today I saw that they were not going to,
14:00but yes, he's has an arm injury.
14:03And right.
14:03I mean, the Chargers always seem to have this narrative too.
14:06The 49ers kind of are the Kings of the, we're always hurt.
14:10There are two tight ends that I see on their practice squad.
14:16Both street free agents from this year.
14:18At least they arrived there this year.
14:20I don't know that they necessarily, I'm not sure what the 26 designates either there or
14:24that's their point of entry.
14:26Is one of them Patrick, Justin Herbert's brother?
14:28Um, yes, Patrick Herbert is one of them.
14:31Evan Svoboda is the other.
14:33Oh, former Sabre.
14:34So maybe they both get elevated.
14:36I don't know.
14:37They also have a, uh, person in their staff with the last name Herbert, but I don't think
14:42he's related.
14:43Hmm.
14:49Nothing's firing.
14:50Lots of Herbert's.
14:51Nothing's firing here right now for me.
14:53I know.
14:54We just throw things out there, I guess.
14:55I don't know.
14:56Just throw it out there.
14:56See what happens.
14:57Yep.
14:57But we talked earlier about Allen winning AFC Offensive Player of the Week for what turns
15:03out to be the 19th time.
15:06Yeah.
15:06And there's, I mean, all the superlatives have been thrown around.
15:09It's tough to find new ones and new ways to describe his career.
15:13Do you happen to have, we did this a couple hours ago or three hours ago.
15:17Do you happen to have sort of a favorite, a go-to?
15:21You go on in other markets and probably they ask you about Josh Allen every single time because
15:26everybody loves to talk about him.
15:27Do you have like a favorite or two statistics or kind of descriptions that you sort of put
15:33on top?
15:34He now has, for example, a fourth game in his career with three passing touchdowns at least
15:41and two rushing touchdowns.
15:42Only one other player has ever had more than one of these games, Cordell Stewart.
15:46So you have all these, just they pile on each other, Sal.
15:48The way this season has started, again, all these kind of records are always flying around
15:54with him and the totals are really adding up, especially in terms of that rushing touchdown
15:58stat.
15:58So anyway, I think you get the gist of the question here.
16:01Where do you start in short when it comes to him?
16:05It's a tough one.
16:06I mean, there's so many ways to go about it.
16:08I do think that rushing touchdown statistic is incredible.
16:10That's the one I landed on.
16:12Yeah.
16:12That he's, he's, you know, closing in on like Hall of Fame caliber running backs is kind
16:17of incredible.
16:18You know what?
16:19It is.
16:20It is.
16:20I mean, what, uh, off the top of my head, Curtis Martin, Priest Holmes, right?
16:24They're right there.
16:24Marshawn Lynch.
16:25Right.
16:25I think they're right there, the next on the list, those guys, because I asked Pete
16:28Carmichael Jr.
16:29About that when we met with him last Friday, I'm like, look at these names.
16:32Like, have you ever thought of, because Pete Carmichael Jr.
16:34He came into the NFL in 2000 as a coach.
16:37So my question to him Friday was, did you ever think you'd see a quarterback like doing
16:42these things?
16:43Like, well, how incredible is it?
16:45Right.
16:45And he's like, yeah, of course it's, it's not something you would ever think that would
16:48happen, but here they are.
16:49And you know, he has the utmost respect for Josh and he was a guy that was, you know,
16:53around Drew Brees and a lot of great players.
16:55Anyway, you know, the thing that I do, and it, after last year against Denver, it definitely
17:01changed a little bit because Josh did not have a very good game and he turned the ball
17:04over.
17:05But one of the things I mention a lot when we're on these shows and we go on these
17:09markets talking about Josh Allen is how great he's been in the playoffs because part
17:14of the reason is I see, and we all see it from Chiefs fans or Ravens fans or whatever
17:19about, oh, can't get it done.
17:20Can't get over the hump, losing the playoffs.
17:23Josh Allen has been amazing in the playoffs.
17:25Now, again, Denver, notwithstanding last year, that was not a good game for him.
17:30Like going into that game, going into last year, whatever it was, he had like the highest
17:34or best ever touchdown to interception ratio of anybody who's ever played like a minimum
17:38of a certain amount of games or had pass attempts in the playoffs.
17:41He has been one of the greatest playoff quarterback performers ever.
17:44And that's one of the things that I like to remind people about, because I think it gets
17:50lost in the sauce, so to speak, because the Bills have not gotten to the Super Bowl.
17:54And what we do in football is we pin that on the quarterback too often.
17:59Jackson Dart out for the year, Sal.
18:02I mean, also kind of like, what can you say?
18:05But it might not cost them their season.
18:08We don't really know how good he was or would have been.
18:11And at least Jameis Winston has played in the league for a long time.
18:14But it's really, for me, more about just the way it sets your franchise back more than
18:21it is like what happens this season.
18:23Yeah, the Jameis experience, right?
18:25They're about to experience that in New York.
18:27And for a John Harbaugh coach team, which is really interesting, by the way, that that
18:31is going to be happening, right?
18:33I don't know how that's going to go, but it's kind of, he could throw someone, when that
18:37happened the other night, someone tweeted at me, he could throw four interceptions
18:39or four touchdowns, I'm like, that's exactly right.
18:41He's done both in a game.
18:43Or in the game, he could do exactly that.
18:45You're right.
18:46Exactly what a team like that doesn't need.
18:48The Giants.
18:49The Giants.
18:49Like, they, you know, right?
18:51Like, I feel like if I'm the Giants, I want a caretaker, as boring as that is, and I'm
18:58going to try to win 17-15 or something, because I've got pass rushers, and maybe I can take
19:03the ball away, whatever.
19:04I'm going to try to win small ball.
19:06I don't know, man.
19:07I think it's a really weird fit.
19:08I mean, I know he's there back, it's a credible enough idea, but I feel like he's almost a
19:13caricature at this point.
19:16I just look at the quarterback injuries this weekend, and, you know, Caleb and Jaden Daniels
19:22and Jackson Dart, and Matt and I, Beauvais, we just did an Always Game Day in Buffalo podcast,
19:26we touched on this, and Matt was right.
19:28Matt said, it just goes really to show you how things can change in an instant for your
19:31organization.
19:32It really can.
19:33And we are very lucky enough to have this guy in Buffalo who's so great at what he does,
19:36and he's also available.
19:38He plays.
19:39Knock on wood.
19:39I mean, that's the part of the deal with Josh Allen is he plays.
19:42He's on the field.
19:43And you can't take that for granted, because that could change with something freaky happening,
19:48right?
19:48And you never want it to.
19:49And he's played through some stuff.
19:51He's certainly played through some stuff.
19:52And he takes a lot of pride in playing and being available and starting, and that's why
19:58he starts that game, you know, with everything's wrapped up and all the starters are sitting.
20:03He's going to play.
20:03He wants that record.
20:05Like, he wants to be up there with, you know, the number of games played, consecutive starts,
20:09consecutive games, all of that.
20:11Like, that's part of, he's talked about that.
20:14And, you know, when you see what happens with these younger guys, these quarterbacks, and
20:18Josh did miss some time, his rookie year as well, but Jackson Dart a few years in, and
20:21Caleb Williams, and Jaden Daniels, and you're right about that.
20:25Did you guys see the quote from Joe Brady today about Josh Allen?
20:29The one you talked about being, like, the biggest Josh Allen hater, that one?
20:35Yes.
20:35I think you played it, actually.
20:36I just thought it was really interesting.
20:38And I transcribed it and tweeted the whole thing so people can go see it.
20:42I think you guys actually even played it on the sound when I was listening earlier, but
20:46like, he said, I'm Josh Allen's biggest hater.
20:49I love him, but I want him to have everything he deserves and says there's more there.
20:54It's just fascinating listening to Brady talk about coach.
20:58One of the things about Brady when he was hired was how he will coach Josh Allen because they
21:04have this close relationship.
21:05And I just think it's fascinating listening to Brady talk about Allen in this regard, which
21:09is, he's like, look, I want him to keep showing up every day and dominating because that's
21:15my job to make sure that if he's doing that, then everybody in the team can buy in to do
21:21that.
21:21And I'm going to get on him to make sure he's doing that and tell him when he's doing
21:24things he shouldn't be doing or making bad decisions like that.
21:27No, and I'm paraphrasing some stuff now, but I thought it was really interesting.
21:31Yeah.
21:31Critic is the word he wanted more than hater.
21:33Probably his biggest critic.
21:35Biggest critic.
21:35Yeah.
21:35Sorry.
21:36Um, no, that's what he said.
21:37Oh, he did.
21:38Yeah.
21:38Right.
21:38Okay.
21:39Good.
21:40All right.
21:40Um, yeah, I like that.
21:42You know what?
21:42That, that, um, that sounds a lot like, you know, a coach that I feel like this happens
21:48in hockey a lot.
21:49Can the best guy on the team, right?
21:51The cat, even maybe it's the captain and the best guy on the team.
21:55Can he handle me kicking the crap out of him in front of the whole team?
21:58And if he can, that's good for everybody because everyone can see him being humbled and taking
22:04it.
22:05And that makes it more possible that they're going to be open to me doing that to them
22:10now because, oh, well, they're doing that to him, you know, that, that kind of thing.
22:14I, I, I, I think that still applies, even though sports and coaching like has evolved
22:20so much.
22:22I still think that that there's room for that.
22:24I think you have to be genuine though, like if it's, if it's an act, yeah, yeah, that's
22:29right.
22:30Then I think you look bad.
22:31Yeah.
22:31Sort of a Lombardi trick.
22:33And that's right.
22:33And that's right.
22:34And then I've always said like the, the true test of Joe Brady is going to come when they
22:37have crisis, when he has to, you know, react a different way than just riding the wave
22:42of winning.
22:42Right.
22:43I mean, how, how do you react there?
22:44That was, that was something Sean McDermott was very good at.
22:46He was really good at pulling his team out from having their lows.
22:50And yes, they would might lose two games in a row.
22:51They never lost three in a row and they would, he would, he would,
22:54he was everybody you talked to.
22:55Eric Wood says it all the time.
22:56Like that was really, he was masterful at that, putting so much pressure on you to make
23:00sure that that didn't continue, that you were at your best when you had to rise up out
23:04of that.
23:04And on that note, like you're talking about this, this coaching and the different styles
23:07and then you take that and you have the juxtaposition today of what Mark Messier said
23:15about Mike Babcock being hired in Edmonton.
23:17Did you see that?
23:18I did.
23:19I read it out loud off the air in here to Mike and Zach.
23:23Like I, I, I'm, I'm blown away.
23:25Amazing.
23:26That he was so critical.
23:28Yes.
23:28I'm just horrified at the whole thing is the, is the money quote at the end, but he explains
23:33himself very well.
23:35Um, you know, talking about how the players sort of vetted the coaching hire and now things
23:40go poorly.
23:41Where do they turn?
23:43Like they were involved in the decision to bring him here in the first place.
23:46Like it's just a very odd situation.
23:48And I just would never have bet a dime that Mark Messier would be critical of anyone in
23:54the league, let alone the Oilers.
23:57Agreed.
23:58And, and I, and the reason why I bring it up is it reminds me of when Joe was hired
24:03and this very thing of, well, he's Josh Allen's handpicked guy.
24:07So obviously Josh Allen's running the show and you know, whatever talking points or narratives
24:11people want to come up with, which is why I find it super interesting listening to Joe
24:15on this right now.
24:16Boy, this idea of crisis, you're both implying like, I don't know, you sort of both sounding
24:21like you think the bills are ever going to lose again.
24:24It seems pretty pessimistic.
24:26Liz, I, I don't know, I don't know if they will.
24:29And if Joe Brady doesn't have to ever go through a crisis, then that is amazing for all of us
24:33to be quite honest.
24:34Right.
24:34Who says that has to happen?
24:36Right.
24:36All right.
24:37Thank you, Sal.
24:38You guys.
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