- 24 minutes ago
On India First, anchored by Gaurav Sawant, political representatives and analysts debate opposition protests demanding the resignation of Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar over alleged irregularities in electoral rolls. Congress national spokesperson Amitabh Dubey argues that the actions constitute an attack on the Constitution and democracy, citing internal dissent reports, lack of consultation, and maintaining that the opposition stands united on evidence-based allegations. Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) spokesperson Siddharth Yadav counters the charges, stating formal dissents were never recorded when final decisions were reached, accusing the opposition of spreading unsubstantiated narratives, and challenging them to present proof before the courts rather than through press conferences. Meanwhile, Samajwadi Party representative Abbas Haider questions the judicial immunity granted under the CEC Act and flags large-scale voter roll deletions. Political analyst Rajat Sethi weighs in on whether the disparate protests signify opposition disunity, state-level strategies, or issues that should be addressed through legal forums.
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NewsTranscript
00:00So, the Congress party led the charge on protests demanding the resignation of CEC Gyanesh Kumar.
00:06But was that larger opposition unity missing in action on ground?
00:11Mahua Moitra, for example, protested separately.
00:13RJD organized a protest, but that was also not with the Congress protest,
00:18but a separate protest, different venue, different time.
00:21Is there a larger message here?
00:23There is a common cause, but not the same route to achieve that common cause.
00:28Or is it also because, as some analysts argue,
00:32that opposition parties also do not want to cede ground in states to each other, even to their partners.
00:40So, how united is the opposition in their effort to take on Gyanesh Kumar?
00:44Joining me on India first is Amitabh Dubey, national spokesperson of the Congress party.
00:49Siddharth Yadav, spokesperson of the BJP.
00:52Abbas Haider represents the Samajwadi party on this broadcast.
00:55Rajat Sethi is a political analyst.
00:58Gentlemen, welcome.
00:59Amitabh, you want to go first to take on Gyanesh Kumar seeking his resignation.
01:04The Congress carried out protests almost across the country.
01:07But is there merit in the assessment that that larger opposition unity
01:14is missing on ground, at least for now?
01:24Well, the party decided, on the basis of the revelations that have obviously come out,
01:28to take this action immediately.
01:30Because, you know, when we delay action, people say,
01:32why is the Congress not on the streets?
01:33So, we decided it was a sufficiently important issue to take action.
01:37And we will bring in the allies are, in principle, in agreement with us.
01:41All of their statements over the last many months and years,
01:44since this issue arose of vote jury,
01:46they have been very supportive and worked closely with the Congress party.
01:49So, you will see coordinated action on the ground.
01:52The reason we moved quickly is because this is a very fundamental attack on the Constitution.
01:57The electoral role is a basis of democracy.
02:00And when such serious questions are raised about it,
02:03and the needle of suspicion, clearly pointed not by us,
02:06but by the other election commissioners,
02:08points to the chief election commissioner,
02:10someone has to take this on and deal with it.
02:14Now, the chief election commissioner didn't just wake up one morning
02:17and say that, you know, he wanted to centralize control,
02:20he wanted to change Form 6 illegally.
02:22He was put in there by a political force.
02:26This is Mr. Modi and Mr. Shah put him in there.
02:29They put him in there in a very unusual manner.
02:32They sneaked in an amendment to the act to appoint the chief election commissioner.
02:38As you know, the August version did not have immunity for the chief election commissioner.
02:42In December, when they had suspended 141 opposition MPs,
02:46suddenly this immunity arose and they pushed it through.
02:49No standing committee, nothing.
02:50So, this was clearly a well-thought-out conspiracy.
02:53And this is why we see this as an attack on the constitution and on the democracy,
02:59not just by the chief election commissioner, but by Mr. Modi and Mr. Shah.
03:02Okay.
03:03So, you know, in your crosshairs are the CEC and the Prime Minister and the Home Minister,
03:09not the SIR process or not the SIR in principle.
03:14But let me bring in Siddharth Yadav to respond.
03:18Okay, give me a moment as we try and re-establish that link with Siddharth in just a moment.
03:23Let me also bring in Rajat into this conversation before I bring in Abbas for more Rajat.
03:29Opposition may not have protested together, but then opposition also carried out protest.
03:35Whether in, you know, whether it was Mahua Moitra carrying out a protest or RJD in Bihar,
03:40separately, separate time, separate venue, but united in the demand for action against the CEC.
03:46Do you look at it as opposition disunity or the Congress just being quick off the block,
03:51capitalized on the issue, the others will join in?
03:55I think, you know, the India Alliance and the way they have been functioning for the past several months and
04:01years now
04:01has followed a very similar pattern wherein the Congress strongly believes about certain issues
04:08in certain states and tries to take the lead.
04:12Then in those states, its own alliance partners tend to, you know, disagree with.
04:17And then we see all the tamasha that happens.
04:20I mean, in Bihar election, Congress unilaterally went ahead with this as a central issue.
04:24Then Rahul Gandhi went out of country for a break.
04:28And by the time he was back, it was already too late.
04:31And he still wanted to rekindle that issue.
04:33But by then, Tejasvi Adha wasn't fully on board.
04:36Similarly, in West Bengal, in West Bengal, while Mamda Banerjee was constantly trying to say that election,
04:42this vote chodi is a central issue, but Congress did not make that an issue over there.
04:46Similarly, we see that this issue, while it is much more vocal in terms of protest in North India,
04:54South India did not see those kind of protests, especially after DMK lost the election
04:59and Congress party would certainly not join stage with the DMK party.
05:03So there will be contradictions.
05:04But I still feel that opposition is doing what their swadharam is.
05:09Their swadharam clearly say that they need to come out and protest.
05:11There might be rational behind it.
05:14It might be political.
05:15But whatever it is, it is well within their right to go out and protest when they are doing so.
05:20Oh, absolutely.
05:20So far, they have gone to the Supreme Court, I believe, a couple of times.
05:25But the Supreme Court, they could not establish a case wherein they could go out and prove that,
05:30yes, there has been a systemic so-called chori of the election.
05:33And that is more of a political rhetoric, devoid of facts, and that has to be established.
05:39So, vote chori, according to you, vote chori, you're saying is just political rhetoric.
05:45The opposition, they need to come together.
05:48They have at times, but are they united on the larger issue?
05:52Perhaps, yes.
05:53Abbas Haidar, the Samajwadi party, supports action against the CEC.
05:58Akhile Shadav actually seeks intervention of the Supreme Court.
06:00But, is there merit in the analysis that the opposition bloc, the entire India alliance,
06:06is not coming together for a joint nationwide protest?
06:10So, is this just a coordination issue within the alliance?
06:15Well, I believe that the resentment against the Chief Election Commissioner, Mr. Gyanesh Kumar,
06:20is not just limited to the India bloc, you know, India bloc parties, but also to the NDA parties.
06:25Like, Chirak Paswan, Upain Kushwaha, they have also, you know, spoken openly about, against Mr. Gyanesh Kumar.
06:32So, one thing is very clear.
06:34See, all the opposition parties are doing a coordinated effort.
06:39Yesterday, Akhile Shadav ji was going through a yatra.
06:42He was taking a yatra in Uttar Pradesh, and he has spoken about it in length.
06:46And, certainly, we will, we are different political outfit, we will come up with different, different strategies.
06:52And, we are not going to exhaust our resources at once.
06:55Don't worry about that.
06:56But, we are going to take it a long way.
06:58No, I'm not worried. I'm only reporting.
07:00Yeah, yeah.
07:01So, see, basically, we have seen how Section 18 of the CEC Act,
07:06that it clearly says that all the decisions must be unanimous.
07:10And, if not unanimous, there must be, yeah, there must be majority decisions.
07:15Similarly, we have, my friend from Congress Party was talking about Section 16,
07:20which gives judicial immunity to Chief Election Commissioner of India,
07:24which is totally unconstitutional.
07:26See, if you see the case of Bengal, you are talking about vote chori,
07:3122,21,000 out of 27,000,000 voters whose names were removed from the electoral roll,
07:38they have requested to reinstate their name.
07:40But, only around 1,600-something, you know, those numbers, those many voters were reinstated.
07:46So, this is certainly vote chori, and this is not one particular state.
07:49I'm not talking about 130 million voters across the country.
07:53So, this is a very serious issue.
07:56This is the biggest threat to the democracy, and I believe…
07:59Let me bring in Siddharth Yadav.
08:01Okay.
08:01Siddharth Yadav respond that the current protest truly establishes,
08:07as Abbas says, vote chori in the country.
08:10Remove the voters, introduce, you know, immunity for the Chief Election Commissioner
08:15or the members of the Election Commission.
08:18You know, Amit Abdube said this was done when a large number of opposition MPs
08:22were not permitted to be in Parliament.
08:24So, there isn't a wider debate.
08:25Why was this done if it isn't the ultimate aim of vote chori?
08:30Good evening, Gaurav, and good evening to all your viewers.
08:33Gaurav, I think this is the most difficult part to understand.
08:36Whatever has been reported in the National Daily,
08:39how this is linked to vote chori in the country, I can't understand that.
08:42What linkage it has to whatever the Election Commission has to do
08:46or what linkage it has to how elections have been conducted,
08:50I don't understand this.
08:52Things have been reported that while, you know,
08:54during the internal deliberations of the Election Commission,
08:57there were dissent notes or, you know, differing opinions that were recorded.
09:01But when the final decisions were taken,
09:04no formal dissent note has been recorded ever.
09:06So, whatever decisions were taken,
09:08and as my learned friend was saying, according to Section 18,
09:11no decision could have been taken
09:12if the two election commissioners were against it.
09:14But you have to understand this in totality.
09:17The two election commissioners,
09:19which are being now celebrated by the opposition,
09:21the same two names of Mr. Sandhu and of Mr. Chawla
09:25were being taken, of Mr. Joshi,
09:27were being taken by Rahul Gandhi a few months back
09:29by being said that they are accused of vote chori.
09:34The same two people were being accused two months back,
09:37but today they are being celebrated.
09:38Why is this?
09:39Where one claims that SIR happens
09:42and, you know, voter decision happens
09:44and it benefits the BJP,
09:46the actual data shows the opposite.
09:48In West Bengal, you have 20 seats
09:50where most number of voters were deleted.
09:52TNC won 13 of those seats.
09:55Congress won one.
09:56And we won only six.
09:58Okay.
09:59When 70 lakh voters were deleted from Tamil Nadu
10:02and we did not win that election,
10:0410 lakh voters were deleted from Kerala,
10:06we did not win that election.
10:07How does this inference come?
10:08What is this?
10:10Amitabh Dubey is explaining how this inference comes.
10:12with what is being reported from election commission.
10:15You know, since you've raised a direct point,
10:16Amitabh is responding to that very direct charge
10:20on how this inference of vote chori is being made
10:23because the CEC,
10:26election commission officials are saying,
10:28no decision,
10:30it has to be either unanimous or majority.
10:32Is there any evidence to suggest
10:35that the CEC rode roughshod over the other two?
10:39That two dissented, only he agreed,
10:41and yet it happened.
10:42Is there anything to prove that?
10:44BJP says you're just relying on inferences and innuendos.
10:49So, so far we have some very credible news reports
10:52which I would like to point out to your viewers
10:54have not been denied by the ECI.
10:57They have just come up with a very vague statement.
10:59They have not specifically denied any of the things
11:01that were in the Indian Express report
11:02or in the couple of other news reports
11:04that have come out since then.
11:06What the election commissioners are believed to have said
11:09is things like the change to Form 6 was illegal.
11:13It was unauthorized.
11:15The centralization of the ECI net,
11:18they have had very strong language about it.
11:20And because of that,
11:21they wrote to the cabinet secretary.
11:22Now, we think that obviously the election commission
11:24should come clean about this.
11:26They should put forth the file notings.
11:27They should put forth all the information.
11:29And of course, we believe,
11:31we have a political stand that the CEC should also resign
11:33because he's clearly very guilty.
11:35But this is,
11:36I'll just give you an example
11:37to respond to what Mr. Yadav said,
11:40is that the charges that the Congress Party
11:42and Rahul Gandhi have been making
11:43over the last one, one and a half years
11:46have all to do with the enrollment of voters,
11:49Form 6, deletion of voters,
11:52how the ERO process has been used,
11:55controlled, misused.
11:56And always we were told,
11:57no, no, the ERO, for instance,
11:58is in charge of the process of addition and deletion.
12:02Now it turns out the ERO is not in charge.
12:05There's a centralized control.
12:06EROs send up requests,
12:08clearing go on voters.
12:10Those voters are still excluded.
12:12Miraculously, 13 lakh West Bengal voters
12:15who were cleared for voting.
12:17Suddenly, someone appealed against them,
12:20despite what the ERO had said.
12:21And no one, it seems to be an illegal act,
12:23according to what the news reports say.
12:25So, a lot of these questions have vindicated
12:27what the Congress Party has been raising
12:29for all of these months.
12:30So, Siddharth, Yadav,
12:31since questions are repeatedly being raised
12:33and the clarification that comes
12:35from the election commission
12:37is being described as bland and perfunctory,
12:41should the CEC and the two ECs
12:44not hold a press conference
12:45and answer on facts,
12:48on merits of the case
12:49to satisfy the political parties?
12:54Gaurav, first of all,
12:55if you continue to repeatedly raise
12:57false acquisitions,
12:59they do not become true.
13:01That's point number one.
13:02Point number two,
13:03yes, CEC should respond.
13:05The election commission should respond.
13:07More and more answers should come out.
13:08There's no denial about it.
13:10But that's not the question.
13:11What they are seeking,
13:12they don't need direct answers.
13:14For instance, let me tell you,
13:16they have this apprehension
13:18that there was a dissent
13:19when decisions were taken in finality.
13:21Election commission is subject to RTI.
13:23My learner from the Congress party
13:24can file an RTI and get to know
13:26that what formal dissent was noted
13:28on any of the 40 decisions
13:29that were taken in the 10 months.
13:3114 internal loads of disagreement
13:34over 10 months
13:35and they want to sensationalize this
13:38and show this,
13:39oh, it was a big fiasco
13:41that was happening
13:42inside the election commission.
13:43I think it's just the opposite.
13:44It shows how the institution
13:46is democratic.
13:47It shows how the institution welcomes
13:49dissent and disagreements.
13:51When they say that
13:52there were disagreements
13:53on calling Form 6 illegal,
13:55I think they should move on from that
13:57and look at the 27th May hearing
13:59at the Honorable Supreme Court
14:00where the election commission
14:02find a formal affidavit
14:03and the Honorable Supreme Court
14:05held that the disclosure form
14:07attached with Form 6
14:08is approved under Section 21.3
14:11of the Peoples of Representation Act.
14:13So we are way past that.
14:15The narrative building exercise
14:16that's happening around this
14:18that we have gotten some reports,
14:20some internal loads were circulated
14:22and henceforth,
14:23whatever we were saying
14:23from past two years,
14:25now all of it is suddenly true.
14:27I think Congress party
14:28should act more maturely.
14:29This is about the integrity
14:31of the election process,
14:33about the integrity of democracy
14:35and all remarks that are made
14:37by political parties
14:38should be responsible in it.
14:40Fair enough.
14:40And I will get all our panelists
14:43to weigh in on this,
14:44but let me come back to the issue.
14:46The Congress party,
14:47Amitabh, as you very rightly said,
14:48has repeatedly been raising this issue
14:51but our alliance partners
14:53saying that,
14:54look, there are other issues
14:55that are far more critical.
14:57Take Bihar, for example.
15:00You know, Rahul Gandhi raised it.
15:02As Rajat said,
15:03he said Rahul Gandhi raised it.
15:04Then he went overseas or elsewhere.
15:06Then he returned.
15:07He raised it again.
15:09And Tejasvi Adha wasn't on board.
15:11You've seen the results.
15:12Take Amitabh Dubey, for example,
15:14Uttar Pradesh.
15:15It's going to polls in 2027.
15:17There's talk of Samajwadi party
15:18and the Congress fighting together.
15:20But are they also
15:21on ground fighting each other?
15:24Samajwadi party started their yatra
15:26and Abbas was talking about,
15:28you know,
15:29Akhilesh Adha not being available
15:30because he was a part of that yatra
15:33that started from Rai Bareli.
15:34Now, your party chief in the state
15:36is talking about Congress
15:37taking out a yatra from
15:38Kannauj, Saifai, Itava.
15:40Yeah, instead of this focus
15:42on, you know,
15:43on Rahul Gandhi,
15:45he's saying the focus
15:46is entirely on Rahul Gandhi.
15:48Sir, I want to understand,
15:49is this a united opposition
15:51to take on the BJP in Uttar Pradesh?
15:55So, that was a question to me, right?
15:57Yeah.
15:58Yeah.
15:58So, look,
15:59firstly, I want to remind you
16:00that in June 2026,
16:02all the opposition parties,
16:03I think there were 23 opposition parties,
16:05wrote to Justice,
16:06Chief Justice of India,
16:07Surikant,
16:08about this issue.
16:10So, we have been coordinating
16:12across the board.
16:13Now, in this state or that state,
16:15local politics does play a role.
16:17But on the issues,
16:18I think on this issue,
16:19there is unity.
16:20And you will see,
16:21because remember,
16:22these revelations are like
16:23two days old,
16:2448 hours old.
16:25There is a process going on
16:27of consultation
16:28within the India Alliance.
16:29And I'm sure you will see
16:30a unified stance on this issue
16:31because this is not
16:33politics as usual.
16:34This is a fundamental attack
16:35on the electoral roll.
16:36So, we are all taking it
16:37very seriously.
16:38The TMC, of course,
16:40is going through
16:40a difficult phase right now
16:42because of the things
16:44that were done
16:44by the Election Commission
16:45in West Bengal.
16:47So, these things
16:47are all interrelated.
16:48So, I'm quite sure
16:49you will see united action.
16:51And my friend from the BJP
16:53was saying that
16:53the Congress Party
16:54should use RTI
16:55because, you know,
16:56they've killed off RTI.
16:57So, that will take
16:58another six months,
16:59one year,
16:59one and a half years.
17:00So, in theory,
17:01that's a great suggestion.
17:02But in practice,
17:02this is a very fundamental
17:04burning issue.
17:05and it cannot be treated
17:06as business as usual.
17:08Okay.
17:08Siddharth,
17:09the opposition may be
17:10divided in states
17:11for having local reasons
17:13and different priorities.
17:15But just look at
17:16the situation
17:17politically.
17:18Congress,
17:19Aam Admi Party,
17:20TMC,
17:20Samajwadi Party,
17:21DMK may not be a part
17:23with Congress,
17:24but all of them
17:25have raised questions
17:26about the CEC
17:27and sought action
17:28against the CEC.
17:30Some of them demand
17:30his arrest.
17:31Some of them want action.
17:32They're all in agreement
17:33to the election commission.
17:35They must come together
17:37and explain
17:38what's been happening.
17:41Gaurav,
17:42it's very simple
17:43and very easy
17:44to debunk
17:45what they actually
17:45feel about each other.
17:47Forget vote showery.
17:48Ask Samajwadi Party,
17:49will they give
17:50200 seats
17:50to Congress Party
17:51in Uttar Pradesh?
17:52Or is the performance
17:54of Congress Party
17:55so bad
17:56in Uttar Pradesh
17:57because of unpopularity
17:59of Rahul Gandhi
17:59or because of vote showery?
18:01All of them know
18:02that Rahul Gandhi
18:03is unpopular.
18:04When they had to find
18:05Bengal elections,
18:07TMC said
18:08Congress Party
18:08can't even fight
18:0910 seats.
18:10So is Congress Party's
18:11position in West Bengal
18:12because of vote showery
18:13or because of
18:14unpopularity
18:15of Rahul Gandhi?
18:15You can't be
18:16blaming others
18:17because you are
18:18unable to win
18:19the trust for the people.
18:20This is the reality.
18:21You have been
18:21out of power
18:22from Tamil Nadu
18:23from 1967,
18:24from Bihar
18:25from 1990s,
18:28from Bengal,
18:29from a lot of states.
18:30When people
18:31are not electing you
18:31and we were not
18:32in power, Gaurav,
18:33then it was not
18:34Gyanesh Kumar
18:35who was the CEC then.
18:35It was not
18:36this election commission.
18:37There was no SIR.
18:39The people have stopped
18:40liking Congress Party
18:41and its policies.
18:42The basic reason
18:43is that you can't
18:44fulfill promises.
18:45You can't give a vision
18:47but you want to
18:48blame the election commission
18:49and the electoral process
18:50of this country.
18:51This is wrong.
18:52When you interest that.
18:54Okay.
18:54I want to get
18:55Amitabh Dubey
18:55to respond
18:56since you've raised
18:57a specific point
18:58and then I'm coming
18:58to Rajat Sethi.
18:59But since a specific
19:00question has been raised,
19:01Mr. Dubey,
19:02you want to respond
19:03that even before
19:04the SIR process,
19:05the Congress was losing
19:06multiple states.
19:07They've won some states.
19:09They've lost some states.
19:10Why blame SIR
19:11or the CEC?
19:13So, firstly,
19:14you know,
19:14as Rahul Gandhi said
19:15in his press conference,
19:16Congress over the decades
19:18has lost elections
19:19in the past as well.
19:20And we never blamed
19:21Vote Chori for that.
19:23Our allegation is
19:24specifically against
19:25the Modi Shah BJP.
19:27It's not even against
19:28Mr. Vajpayee's BJP.
19:29We've never accused
19:30Mr. Vajpayee's government
19:31of Vote Chori
19:32or the United Front
19:33government
19:34or any other
19:34previous government.
19:35So, we are quite clear
19:37that this is an
19:38evidence-based claim.
19:39Like I said,
19:40we have had many
19:41press conferences.
19:42We have provided evidence.
19:43And what we are seeing
19:44right now
19:45is being borne out
19:46by what we have been saying.
19:47And one correction
19:49I'd like to make
19:50to Mr. Yadav's comment.
19:52We are not attacking
19:53the Election Commission.
19:54This is the Congress Party
19:55and the Election Commission
19:57reacting to the domination
19:59by the CEC
20:00in a completely patently
20:01illegal way.
20:01We are defending
20:02the Election Commission
20:03and the Election Commissioners
20:04and all the past
20:06Chief Election Commissioners
20:07who have spoken
20:07on this issue
20:08are standing united
20:10on the fact
20:10that this is illegal behavior
20:11and it needs to be
20:12seriously investigated.
20:14Rajat Sethi,
20:15but do facts
20:16bear out
20:17this situation
20:19on ground?
20:20The Congress
20:20has won elections
20:21back-to-back
20:22in the past.
20:24Mamata Banerji
20:25has won elections
20:26back-to-back
20:27in the past.
20:27Pawan Kumar Chamling,
20:28Jyoti Basu,
20:29so many examples
20:30across the country
20:32of winning elections
20:33back-to-back.
20:34Why is it that
20:35this allegation
20:36is being raised now?
20:37Is there reason
20:38for this allegation
20:39to be leveled now?
20:42It is pretty lame
20:43to say that
20:44anti-incumbency
20:45is a gospel truth,
20:46that it always
20:47necessarily has to happen.
20:48That just defies logic
20:50and I think
20:51making that
20:52as a ground
20:53that BJP should lose
20:54because they won
20:55five years back
20:56and there is
20:57automatic
20:58anti-incumbency
20:59built-in
20:59is a very lame logic.
21:01It does not cut ice
21:02and I believe
21:03this is where
21:04Congress Party
21:05will keep on
21:06going to the
21:07wrong conclusions
21:08of why they are
21:09losing elections
21:10instead of
21:11course-correcting,
21:12building the
21:13organization ground up.
21:14If they don't want
21:15to do the heavy lifting
21:16and they want to
21:17piggyback onto a story
21:18that they have
21:20created a make-believe
21:21world of their own
21:22and they believe
21:23that is a reality,
21:24then good luck to them.
21:25But at the end of the day,
21:27they will have to
21:28prove charges
21:29that they are putting up
21:30in press conferences.
21:31Press conferences
21:32is not a live
21:33courtroom
21:34wherein you are
21:35just trying to make
21:35one-sided assertions
21:37and not hearing
21:38the other side.
21:39Courts are the best
21:40place to do that
21:40and had you taken
21:41certain issues
21:42to the court.
21:43Maybe the court
21:44would have given you
21:45some kind of a respite
21:46or some kind of a
21:46re-election
21:47in several places.
21:48In Bihar,
21:49where the central issue
21:50made by Congress Party
21:51was vote-jury
21:52after the election
21:54and during the 45 days
21:55period when you can
21:56actually go out
21:57and appeal,
21:58absolutely no appeal
21:59whatsoever was made
22:00by the Congress Party
22:01because that is a
22:02difficult exercise.
22:04Shoot and scoot
22:04is very easy.
22:05You can come into
22:06a press conference,
22:07you can blame anybody,
22:08whatever you feel like
22:09and you can deflect
22:10the issue.
22:10Here the issue
22:11is not about
22:12which party is winning
22:13or losing.
22:14Please, one second.
22:15One second.
22:16Which party loses
22:17or wins is a different story.
22:19Were there procedural
22:20lapses in EC
22:21is another story.
22:22And if there are
22:23procedural lapses,
22:24that needs to be established,
22:27it needs to be vetted,
22:28if required,
22:29the election commission
22:30has to come out clean,
22:31if required,
22:32this whole process
22:33can also be challenged
22:34in the court
22:34several decisions
22:35that EC has done.
22:36But that does not
22:38Suomoto automatically
22:39sort of make
22:40the entire elections
22:40that have happened
22:42null and void
22:43in the imagination
22:44of the Congress Party.
22:45Fair enough.
22:46Since you've directly
22:47referred to Congress Party,
22:48Abbas,
22:49sorry,
22:49just give me 30 seconds.
22:50I'll get Mr. Dubey
22:51to respond
22:51and then Mr. Heather,
22:52I'm coming to you.
22:53Go ahead, Amitab.
22:55No, I was just saying
22:56I'm also waiting
22:56to respond
22:57since some assertions
22:58were made against the BJP.
22:59Absolutely.
23:00I'll come to you.
23:01Yeah, absolutely.
23:02Go ahead, Amitab.
23:03Mr. Dubey, go ahead.
23:04No, the point
23:05the point is that
23:07in Bihar specifically,
23:09we had a lot of
23:11our process going on,
23:13but they were not accepted.
23:14They were literally
23:14not accepting our forms.
23:17So there was also
23:17violations going on
23:18on the ground.
23:19Many parties,
23:20we were an alliance,
23:22the CPI, ML, RJD,
23:23other people,
23:24they were all trying
23:24to get the amendments done
23:26and it was not being
23:27accepted on the ground.
23:28The fact is that,
23:30you know,
23:31again, I'm reiterating,
23:33this is a different situation
23:34and I believe that
23:36events have proven us right.
23:38So when Raul Bani first
23:39created the issue…
23:40Shouldn't that be tested
23:41in a court of law?
23:43If there is an illegality,
23:45it has to be proven
23:46in a court of law.
23:48Isn't it?
23:49And Abbas Haidar,
23:50when both the Congress
23:51and the opposition
23:52in different states
23:53are fighting perhaps
23:54for the same vote bank,
23:56doesn't it end up being
23:58advantage BJP?
24:00Take, for example,
24:01Bihar,
24:02since all of us
24:02were referring to Bihar,
24:0411 direct friendly fights,
24:05Haryana,
24:06Congress and the
24:07Arm Admi Party
24:07clashed,
24:08BJP benefited.
24:09Now,
24:09is that the real problem
24:12instead of this
24:13vote-chory
24:14that is being alleged?
24:16You know,
24:16shouldn't there be
24:17a wider opposition unity?
24:18And in your view, sir,
24:20why is that not happening?
24:22Well,
24:23first of all,
24:23let me answer the question
24:24you asked Mr. Dubey
24:25about Akhlesh Yadav Ji's
24:28yatra starting from
24:29Rai Bareli.
24:30Since a few weeks back,
24:32Samajwadi Party
24:33legislator Mr. Rahul Lodi
24:35was humiliated by
24:36district administration
24:38of Rai Bareli.
24:39That was the reason
24:39why the PDA yatra
24:40started from Rai Bareli.
24:42And however,
24:43it has been ongoing.
24:44We have been fighting
24:45for the justice,
24:46for the honor
24:47of the Dalit community.
24:48And that was the
24:50very prime reason
24:50why the yatra
24:51started from Rai Bareli.
24:53The Samajwadi Party,
24:54Congress,
24:54and all the members
24:56of the India Alliance,
24:57they are in sync.
24:58They are working together.
24:59They are closely coordinated.
25:00One thing.
25:01Second thing,
25:02see,
25:03but certainly,
25:04they are different
25:04political outfits.
25:05They have their own aspiration.
25:06I would not deny that.
25:08And they may fight,
25:09you know,
25:09whatever suits the,
25:10you know,
25:11the arithmetic of the region.
25:12Yeah, certainly.
25:13But they are united
25:14on a bigger picture.
25:16They are united
25:16with a vision
25:17that, you know,
25:18we want to protect
25:19the structure.
25:20We want to protect
25:21the, you know,
25:22fundamental of the constitution.
25:23Bigger, wider fight.
25:25One more minute.
25:27I want to just give
25:28a very,
25:28an example
25:29in a very simple word.
25:31See,
25:31the CEC
25:32deprived 22 lakh voters
25:34of their fundamental
25:35right of universal
25:36adult franchise
25:37in Bengal.
25:38And look,
25:39today,
25:39Samik Bhattacharya,
25:40the BJP
25:41president of West Bengal,
25:42he's not a small leader.
25:43He's the state president
25:44of West Bengal.
25:45You know,
25:46he have requested
25:47the government
25:47to give him
25:48Padma Bhibhushan.
25:49So,
25:49isn't it not
25:50a quid pro quo?
25:51That is one question.
25:52Okay,
25:53I'll get Siddharth Yadav to respond
25:54because
25:55Siddharth Yadav,
25:56no,
25:56but is it,
25:57he says it's because
25:58Bangladeshis
25:59were not permitted
26:00to vote.
26:01That's why there should be,
26:02and there was,
26:02there was no violence.
26:03That's why
26:04Padma Bhibhushan,
26:05or worse to that effect,
26:06we played out
26:06what he said,
26:07but Siddharth Yadav.
26:08But this is certainly
26:09a case of quid pro quo.
26:12Siddharth Yadav response,
26:13sir.
26:15No,
26:15Gaurav,
26:16first of all,
26:16to respond to my learned friend
26:18from the Congress party,
26:19he said that it's an evidence-backed
26:21claim that we are doing.
26:22We have all the evidences.
26:23Rahul Gandhi
26:24in the press conference
26:25also that day
26:25had said that
26:26we have all the proofs.
26:27If you have the proofs,
26:28go to the court.
26:29If you have the proofs,
26:30media stage,
26:31media mimicry
26:33is not the platform
26:34to do it.
26:34If you have
26:35any substantial proof,
26:36we are a democracy,
26:37a very vibrant one.
26:39We are a country
26:40run by the rule of law
26:42and you can establish
26:43whatever you wish to.
26:44But unfortunate part is
26:45whenever institutions
26:46or courts would invite you,
26:47you would not go there.
26:49That's point number one.
26:49Point number two,
26:50when you mention of Bihar,
26:51I think Bihar
26:52was one of the cases
26:53where the Honorable Supreme Court
26:54for the first time
26:55had left it over-ended
26:57and said that
26:58you bring me one person
26:59whose name is wrongfully deleted
27:01and we shall reopen the case.
27:03You could not bring in one person.
27:05One person to the Supreme Court
27:06to establish your case,
27:07but you still go on
27:09with the rhetoric of Bihar,
27:10that's most unfortunate.
27:12Number three,
27:12he said,
27:13oh, we are not fighting
27:13against the Election Commission.
27:15We are fighting
27:15with the Election Commission
27:16against the CEC.
27:18Three months back,
27:19you were naming
27:19all election commissioners,
27:21CEC, everybody.
27:22You were saying
27:23this is the most corrupt organization.
27:24Today, suddenly,
27:25you have flipped the coin.
27:26This shows that how
27:27whatever suits your narrative,
27:29whatever suits
27:30your propaganda building,
27:32you would just slime
27:33onto that.
27:34Most unfortunate part,
27:35I think this is disservice
27:36to the nation what Rahul Gandhi
27:37and Congress Party are doing.
27:39You are weakening the trust
27:40of India's democracy.
27:42You are weakening the trust
27:43of India's people
27:44on India's electoral structure.
27:46You know,
27:46this is disservice
27:47to the nation which should stop.
27:48All the more reason,
27:50Rajat Sethi,
27:50the last 30 seconds
27:51I have on this part of the show,
27:52all the more reason
27:53why the CEC
27:55and the two other
27:56election commissioners,
27:57they need to come out
27:58and take questions
27:59and respond.
28:00Justice must not only be done,
28:02it must be seen to be done
28:03and that seem to be done
28:05is the big issue here.
28:09Absolutely,
28:09God,
28:09with every passing day
28:11and the delay
28:11that is there
28:13is just going to build up
28:14more and more momentum.
28:15You know,
28:16and then it will become
28:16very hard
28:17and as it has happened
28:19that if you allow
28:20things to snowball,
28:21it just becomes
28:22the crisis grows.
28:23It's not like you can
28:24duck your head
28:25in the sand
28:25like a penguin
28:26and hope that,
28:27you know,
28:27the storm is going
28:28to pass away.
28:29It does not work like that.
28:30So, therefore,
28:31come out.
28:32I'm pretty sure
28:33that if you are confident
28:34that you've run
28:34the commission pretty well
28:36following all the norms
28:37and procedures,
28:38it will be very easy
28:39for you to come up
28:40with all the paperwork
28:40that is out there
28:41and finish this controversy
28:42once and for all.
28:43But we'll be reporting
28:44all sides of this controversy
28:46as it develops,
28:48but I want to thank
28:48all our guests
28:49for joining me here
28:50on this part of India First.
28:52Many thanks for joining me.