- 6 weeks ago
In this debate, former Chief Election Commissioner O.P. Rawat, Congress national spokesperson Bhavya Narasimhamurthy, and BJP national spokesperson Pradeep Bhandari discuss allegations surrounding the Election Commission of India and its leadership under CEC Gyanesh Kumar. Pradeep Bhandari defended the poll body, asserting that constitutional decisions under Article 324 require unanimity and dismissing opposition claims as source-based fake news. In contrast, Bhavya questioned why NDA chief ministers are issuing statements on behalf of a constitutional body instead of the Chief Election Commissioner addressing the public directly. Emphasising institutional integrity, O.P. Rawat stated, 'Election Commission must come out, answer every point, every accusation,' noting that winning or losing elections does not impact an institution's objectivity. Recalling the EVM challenge organised during his tenure, Rawat maintained that all three commissioners share collective responsibility and must engage openly with citizens to allay concerns and restore confidence.
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00:00Joining me on the show tonight, O.P. Rawat, former Chief Election Commissioner of India, is joining us.
00:05Bhavya is the National Spokesperson of the Congress Party.
00:08We have Pradeep Bhandari, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
00:11I'm going to begin with you, Pradeep Bhandari.
00:13Over the last 24 hours, several BJP Chief Ministers, all NDA partners from Chandrababu Naidu to Eknath Shinde
00:25to all others have come out in support of the Election Commission.
00:29My question is, shouldn't Election Commission themselves address a press conference rather than, you know, ask the BJP
00:36or the BJP should come out in their defense?
00:44Maria, the press conference which the opposition and Rahul Gandhi did was on what?
00:50It was based on certain source-based information which spoke about a hypothetical dissent
00:57and after that, you had Rahul Gandhi doing a press conference.
01:01So, the genesis of the issue was when the Indian opposition took hypothetical dissent based on source-based information of
01:09two Election Commissioners.
01:10After that, we had the first public on-record statement which is where the entire Election Commission and the three
01:17Election Commissioners
01:18signed on record and said that A, that the entire process and decision-making in the Election Commission was unanimous.
01:25Constitutionally also, as per 324, it is not possible for anybody to have a veto and if the two Election
01:31Commissioners had a problem,
01:33they could have ganged up and ensured that CEC's opinion could have been vetoed.
01:37Now, Rahul Gandhi attacked the Bharatiya Janata Party and Rahul Gandhi did it on the premise of two hypothetical opinions.
01:44So, it is a democratic right to respond to the opposition's fakery and fake news.
01:48I believe that it has now been proven that yet again like in Rafal…
01:50No, I am looking at Chandrababu Naidu's statement.
01:53He says, he says that this reaffirms, the statement reaffirms the integrity and credibility of our constitutional institutions
02:01and puts to rest all the misconceptions surrounding it.
02:05I mean, if you look at it, it is about Election Commission.
02:10Here is the Election Commission which has done press conferences in the past.
02:15It's not that it doesn't do press conferences.
02:18Whenever there are elections and the election dates have to be announced, they do so by holding press conferences.
02:25So, nothing stops them from again answering all questions that have been raised in that report of Indian Express.
02:33So, you know, that's what I want an answer from.
02:37Why should the BJP respond for Election Commission?
02:43With that logic, Mariya, why should the Congress party pick a source-based information which is based on two dissenting
02:49opinions of two election commissioners?
02:51Why did the Congress pick it up?
02:53If it was between dissenting opinion of two election commissioners and the CEC, why did the Congress pick it up?
02:59Okay, perhaps, you know, that logic doesn't really fit here, Paz Pradeep, because you have raised it.
03:05Perhaps Bhavya will be able to respond and then I'll bring in O.P. Rawat. Yes.
03:11Mariya, who are the direct beneficiaries of Gyanesh Kumar's betrayal to democracy of this country?
03:18NDA chief ministers.
03:20Of course, they will show their gratitude to Gyanesh Kumar.
03:24This is the least they can do.
03:25Stand with him.
03:27Not forget his help.
03:29And this is exactly why, see, before this, every time the LOP Mr. Rahul Gandhi accuses the government of something,
03:37along with evidence and facts,
03:39the Narendra Modi used to send his cabinet minister, he never did press conferences.
03:46This time he's sending the direct beneficiaries to speak against Mr. Gandhi.
03:51It's as simple as that.
03:53And what have they spoken?
03:55And your question was so apt.
03:57Why are these chief ministers speaking for a constitutional organization?
04:04It is their duty to respond to LOP.
04:08It is the duty of the chief election commissioner to sit in front of the media, answer their questions,
04:14and allay all the fears and all the doubts if he is not at fault.
04:19Why are the BJP chief minister doing press conferences?
04:23Do they know what happened in CEC?
04:25Do they know what happened in election commissioner between the three election commissioners?
04:29Radhi, will you quickly respond to that?
04:30Does that mean they are sitting in their meetings?
04:3130 seconds, Radhi, bring in Mr. Rahul.
04:33Isn't this against the constitution?
04:34Please go ahead.
04:35Go ahead.
04:3530 seconds.
04:37Well, Mariya, the congress spokesperson is self-contradicting herself because if the entire machinery under Mr. Gyanesh Kumar is rigged,
04:45then I wonder how is Telangana, Tamil Nadu, Kerala sitting with opposition and Himachal sitting with opposition?
04:51We won 40 elections before Gyanesh Kumar was the CEC.
04:56We lost 25 elections even before when he was the CEC.
04:58So, this is a very illogical argument.
05:00Nobody is buying.
05:01She said that it is the constitutional duty of the CEC to respond to the LOP.
05:06Can you please read article 324 for me and representation of people at 1950 for me?
05:11Where is it written in that article that the chief election commissioner either has to respond to the government or
05:16to the LOP?
05:17This is a note which the CEC election commission is in a little bit.
05:20But no, no, no, one moment.
05:20Bhabha, Bhabha, O.P. Rawat is a former CEC.
05:25He understands the nuances and the functioning of the institution much better than all of us.
05:30So, let me bring him in.
05:32Mr. Rawat, a lot of questions that the election commission continues to face.
05:36The point that has been made by the BJP is that much before Gyanesh Kumar became the CEC, BJP had
05:44won elections.
05:45So, for all those opposition leaders who are saying that it is Gyanesh Kumar who was assisting allegedly the BJP
05:53in winning elections,
05:54do you think that kind of argument perhaps dilutes the larger questions that are being raised and a number of
06:01them, valid ones, particularly with regards to SIR?
06:09Maria, absolutely no, because winning and losing election doesn't impinge anyway on election commission's impartiality, objectivity and fearlessness.
06:22Those things are most important constitutionally and for the democracy to survive and thrive.
06:30That's why election commission is being accused by anyone, whether it is L.O.P., whether it is other opposition
06:38party or whether it is common citizen forum or whether it is 150 retired formal civil servants.
06:45Anyone accusing them gives clear signal to election commission to come out in the open, come out to the public
06:55and do.
06:56I remember myself then when on EVM, political parties were raising issues, we set up an EVM challenge.
07:05Come here, bring all your experts and take out which polling station you feel the EVM was bad.
07:11Bring it and change one vote from here and there.
07:15We will do away with EVM.
07:17Not a single party came.
07:19Then retired officers forum, about 100 of them, they wrote to me, even now we don't believe about EVM.
07:27So I took time from them and I myself went with my DGIT to Bangalore, made a presentation that,
07:35look here, look here, this is the strength of EVM and BBPAT system, now if your expert can pinpoint any
07:41weakness, I will do away with EVM.
07:44They could not do anything and then they all accepted that, yes.
07:47So we always stand for our impartiality, objectivity and working without any fear or favour.
07:58That is what election commission needs to do now, nobody else.
08:02Because if you are saying that other people have won election, we have won this, that shows that you are
08:10creating a model to justify all this.
08:13That, okay, one of them will win, we will have a saving grace.
08:17No, this is bad.
08:19And things are really boiling.
08:21I was just watching the press and some media reports that things are boiling.
08:27So before anything goes wrong, election commission must come out, answer every point, every accusation, which came in Indian Express,
08:38which was written otherwise.
08:41Yes, Mr. Rawit, you know, the election commission has issued two press releases.
08:47What is being seen also by the critics is that there is a great degree of course correction in trying
08:52to empower the officers on the ground.
08:56Do you think it's sending the right messages, but there are so many questions directed directly at Gyanesh Kumar that
09:04it is him now, it is he, the man who has to come out clean now?
09:12Maria, it is not one individual.
09:14Okay.
09:15I hold whole commission as squarely responsible.
09:18And therefore, all three of them must make up their mind, sit together, frame all answers to every doubt or
09:27question raised, and come out in open.
09:29And answer everything in open forum.
09:31So that people of India who are the sovereign of this country, they feel satisfied that yes, everything is okay
09:39with the constitutional authority of election commission of India.
09:44And that brings me to what has been raised by the LOP this, you know, a couple of hours ago,
09:52Pradeep Bhandari, with regards to the Bela state on the banks of the Yamuna.
09:58That 728 people live there, their names have been struck off.
10:02Of course, the CEO of Delhi has come out with a clarification.
10:07You know, it certainly is worrying, the entire pattern that one is seeing now, Pradeep.
10:18Yes, it is worrying the entire pattern in which the opposition is attempting to create a democratic deficit because legitimately
10:24and democratically, they are not able to come to power.
10:28So they want to create a democratic anarchy and we are seeing a pattern to it very well.
10:32Well, the former chief election commissioner respectfully spoke before me.
10:36What I could conclude for sure is that he has agreed that whatever the opposition party spoke about EVM was
10:42dead, it was fake news.
10:44Secondly, I want to ask your panel in a very legitimate and logical manner.
10:47Can any decision of the election commission constitutionally, legally be even passed by one individual?
10:52Because I remember Mr. S.Y. Koreshi in one of the interviews said, when Naveen Chawla who is a corrupt
10:58man is promoted as the CEC by the Congress party,
11:01he and then chief election commissioner Mr. Gopal Swami had a difference of opinion.
11:07It was the veto vote of Mr. Koreshi who decided it.
11:11Now, here the election commission has said nothing is of difference of opinion.
11:15It is completely by unanimity which means that the source based information completely falls flat.
11:21I am not talking about the procedural changes it has done.
11:24The meat of the story which was raised by the LOP was A that the entire decision making in the
11:30election commission was happening unilaterally
11:32which has turned out to be fake news.
11:33It is not logically possible.
11:34B that the entire process of SIR was only decided by the CEC which has again come out to be
11:39fake news.
11:40Now, on the procedural part you have the CEC and others responding.
11:43Just 10 seconds and an end.
11:45Remember when TN Session who fought on a Congress ticket against LK Advani and was considered as a very independent
11:50election commissioner,
11:52Lalu Prasar Yadav called him a Pagla Sand.
11:55Did you see Mr. Session coming out openly and responding to Lalu Prasar Yadav?
11:59No.
12:00An independent constitutional body is not meant to respond either to the executive or either to the government or to
12:06the opposition.
12:07It is only responsible to the constitution and the protector of the constitution is the Supreme Court of India.
12:11How do I respond to that?
12:12And then I will bring you Mr. Rawat.
12:13Please go ahead.
12:14And we have seen in the past that whatever the opposition is in the Supreme Court has fallen flat.
12:17Okay.
12:18You know, the BJP spokesperson very cleverly chose, you know, bits and pieces of what the respected EC, the former
12:26EC Mr. Rawat said.
12:28He also said that they did everything in their capacity to allay the fears of the public if there was
12:38any doubts.
12:39Why is the current commission not doing that?
12:42What is wrong?
12:43Can they not come out and address the press?
12:45Are they not answerable to the people of India?
12:48Fine, they don't have to answer to the opposition.
12:50Why not the people of India when people are protesting on the streets?
12:53Why are the chief ministers coming out and doing press conferences?
12:57Who are they?
12:57Why are they even related?
12:58Were they present in those meetings?
13:00Do these chief ministers know what happened in those meetings in election commission for them to come out and do
13:05press conferences?
13:07What are you even speaking?
13:08What logic is this?
13:09And you are saying because one politician used name for another election commissioner, he did not come out.
13:15So, you are defending that the current commissioner who has done such a big scam need not answer the public?
13:21What are you comparing, Pradeep?
13:23Come on.
13:24Okay.
13:25Pradeep.
13:25There should be some sense in what you are speaking.
13:27Can I answer?
13:28Okay, Pradeep, 30 seconds.
13:29Quickly.
13:30Bhavya.
13:31Pradeep, 30 seconds.
13:32Yes, he spoke about everything.
13:34See, let us be very...
13:35He also said...
13:36Bhavya, Bhavya, you made your point.
13:38Bhavya, you made your point, Bhavya.
13:41Bhavya, Bhavya, you are repeating yourself.
13:44You made your point.
13:45Please go.
13:46That's the point.
13:47You didn't make your point.
13:48Thank you, Bhavya.
13:49The things you spoke did not have any logic in them.
13:52Okay, you take 10 seconds extra and then give me 20.
13:54No, no, no.
13:55Go ahead.
13:56Pradeep, you have to flow.
13:56Okay, fine.
13:57Bhavya, thank you.
13:57No, no.
13:58I will decide the seconds here.
14:01Pradeep, you get 20 seconds to wrap it up.
14:03Please go ahead.
14:04See.
14:04Yes.
14:04The present in the meeting election commission is my question.
14:07Yes.
14:07Bhavya, the national spokesperson from the Congress party said that the CEC committed
14:13a scam.
14:14Now, it is logically clear that any decision in the election commission cannot be taken
14:19by the CEC.
14:20It has to be taken by unanimity.
14:22So, is she saying that the dissenting opinion which Rahul Gandhi raised of two election commissioners
14:28who he called as jabas, were they also part of the scam?
14:31If that is true, then Rahul Gandhi raised an issue of hypothetical primal safety scam.
14:37Mr. Rawat, before I bring in my next guest, Mr. Rawat, you are looking at what has been said here,
14:44when you were the CEC and questions were raised with regards to the functioning of the EVM, did you hold
14:51press conferences?
14:55Or did you just invite opposition to clarify?
15:00The EVM challenge, when you offered the EVM challenge, was it also along with the press conference?
15:09Yeah, press conference I myself presented before these retired civil servants, everything was
15:16done.
15:16So, that everyone, and then we started a campaign in the villages and bastis, that literate children
15:25were made presiding officer, polling officer, that you operate EVM and BVPAT and you count
15:30and you declare result.
15:31And we found that not one vote difference was there and all the villagers, all the bastiwalas,
15:38they said EVM, Jindabad.
15:40So, that kind of campaign was launched.
15:42All right, OP Rawat, Pradeep Bhandari and Bhavia, really appreciate your time.