- 6 minutes ago
An expert discussion examined the September 30 Flydubai FZ1073 cockpit attack in which Omani co-pilot stabbed Captain Smit Machchhar during the Dubai-Tel Aviv flight. The aircraft reportedly went into a rapid descent before Machchhar, despite sustaining serious injuries, activated the cockpit door release. Passengers and crew then restrained the co-pilot, while two off-duty pilots helped stabilise the aircraft. The plane, carrying 174 people, was diverted to Tabuk in Saudi Arabia and landed safely despite reported damage. Experts discussed the sequence of events, the captain’s actions and how the crisis was brought under control.
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00:00Hello and welcome, you're watching India First, I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:04On this special broadcast, we get you absolutely chilling details of what happened on board
00:11the Fly Dubai Flight 1073 from Dubai to Tel Aviv carrying 174 passengers, several children.
00:20Now the Boeing 737 MAX, it initially, according to reports that are now coming in,
00:26it initially climbed to about 34,000 feet altitude before trouble began.
00:32And this trouble started roughly 2 hours and 15 minutes into the flight.
00:37This is a 3 hour, 15 minute long flight from Dubai to the Ben Gurion International Airport in Tel Aviv.
00:44So 2 hours and 15 minutes into the flight, the plane suddenly started dropping.
00:49It just suddenly nosedived.
00:51And passengers say, initially they thought that this was mid-air turbulence.
00:56But then for 20 to 30 seconds, the pilot just, the aircraft just went into a crazy free fall,
01:03according to eyewitnesses.
01:05And then it seemed to stabilize a little and then started going down once again.
01:11It went again in a very steep nosedive, losing 15,000 feet in just 55 seconds.
01:20Now this is according to flight tracking data.
01:24And the speed of the dive, it pushed the aircraft virtually to the limits of the engineering.
01:31And then there is a picture that we will show you, a part of the rudder,
01:35it reportedly ripped from the tail because it just couldn't take it anymore.
01:41You know, Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, he's hailed the courage of the Indian pilot,
01:48the pilot in command, Captain Smith Machar, who displayed exemplary courage against our lords.
01:55He grappled with the co-pilot, who was repeatedly stabbing him.
02:00He still managed to somewhat stabilize the aircraft.
02:05Despite bleeding profusely, he showed presence of mind.
02:09He sent out an emergency alert signal, an anti-hijack signal,
02:15and then managed to open the cockpit door from inside so that crew and passengers could come and help him
02:23overpower the co-pilot who was armed, armed with an axe,
02:28the axe that's kept in the cockpit for an emergency.
02:32Now, Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, he's gone on record to say
02:37his appreciation is that the Omani co-pilot at the center of this Fly Dubai cockpit attack
02:43had apparently undergone Islamist radical indoctrination.
02:50But Israel is saying that there is an investigation underway.
02:54More facts have to be ascertained before establishing whether this was a wider plot or a terror attack.
03:04The UAE has ordered an investigation into this incident,
03:08including the possibility of a terror link and a prior planning that went to this attack.
03:15So this Fly Dubai flight, FZ-1073, was flying from Dubai to Tel Aviv
03:20when the Omani co-pilot now stands accused of stabbing,
03:26repeatedly stabbing Captain Smith Machar with the emergency axe multiple times
03:30and then he tried to take control of the aircraft.
03:34We will get you on this broadcast Captain Smith Machar,
03:38though bleeding profusely, injured, details that he gives out,
03:43and all of this is on camera, mobile phone camera.
03:46According to Israeli officials and passenger account,
03:49Captain Smith Machar, despite being repeatedly stabbed and being grievously injured,
03:55he managed to stabilize the aircraft, seek help, and then give out some details.
04:01That picture, we've blurred it a little because some of these pictures,
04:04some of these images can be disturbing.
04:07Captain Smith Machar since has been airlifted to Abu Dhabi for better treatment.
04:12His condition is said to be stable.
04:14He still requires treatment for his injuries.
04:17I will play out that video exclusively accessed by India today.
04:22The injured captain, he can be heard saying,
04:26he hit me many times.
04:29A word to the effect that he was repeatedly hit.
04:32He says, I can move my hand, but I can't close my fist.
04:36I can't squeeze it.
04:38Captain Smith Machar is being rightfully hailed as a hero,
04:43not just in Israel and India, but across the world.
04:48Prime Minister Narendra Modi praised his bravery and said his actions helped avert
04:53what Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described as a repeat of 9-11 type attack.
05:00US President Donald Trump also praised Captain Smith Machar
05:04and lauded his role in trying to prevent an attempted hijack of the aircraft.
05:10Prime Minister Narendra Modi echoed the Israeli Prime Minister.
05:13He also urged the nation to pray for Captain Smith's speedy recovery and long life.
05:19In fact, as we speak, prayers are being held at multiple temples
05:24from the Somnath Temple in Gujarat to the Kashi Vishwana Temple in Uttar Pradesh.
05:30But this incident has actually brought back some very disturbing memories of aviation history.
05:37More so than ever of 9-11, more than 25 years earlier.
05:43Four commercial aircraft were then hijacked by Al-Qaeda terrorists.
05:48Two were flown into the World Trade Center.
05:51You remember those images?
05:53Then another crash into the Pentagon.
05:56Passengers of United 93, they fought back against the hijackers.
06:00Quite like this case, that the passengers and the brave pilot,
06:04they fought the co-pilot in this case.
06:06That time it was hijackers.
06:09This time it was the co-pilot who stands suspected.
06:12Of course, that aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania.
06:15Fortunately, this time, no lives were lost.
06:17That time, during 9-11, more than 3,000 people were killed.
06:2325 years later, a fly-the-wire incident presented a terrifyingly,
06:28eerily similar, though different scenario.
06:31The attacker was not an outsider trying to break into the cockpit.
06:35He was sitting inside the cockpit.
06:38The co-pilot.
06:39He attacked the pilot.
06:40The aircraft plunged thousands of feet.
06:43Passengers and crew rushed in to the cockpit.
06:46The plane was ultimately brought under control and diverted to safety.
06:50And this is fantastic.
06:51This is almost like a film script.
06:55But sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
06:59There are multiple examples and parallels that are being drawn.
07:02Before I get you more on the story, I want you to listen in to Captain Smith Machar.
07:07As he says, he hit me repeatedly or words to that effect.
07:12And he is moving his hand saying, I can move my hand, but I can't clench my fist.
07:18Listen in.
07:18I can move, but I can't do this.
07:21I can't squeeze my hand.
07:25He just, he hit me like...
07:27No, no, no, no.
07:28So many times.
07:31My hand, I can move, but I can't do this.
07:34I can't squeeze my hand.
07:38He just, he hit me like...
07:40No, no, no, no.
07:42So many times.
08:07So what exactly happened on board this Fly Dubai flight?
08:11We've tried to reconstruct the entire sequence of events for your benefit.
08:16To understand what really happened.
08:19Let's first get you the first image.
08:22We've tried to reconstruct this using artificial intelligence.
08:26So the Fly Dubai flight FZ-1073 took off from the Dubai International Airport,
08:32from the Ben Gurion International Airport in Israel.
08:35There were 174 on board.
08:37The flight duration, 3 hours, 15 minutes.
08:41Now, let's move to the second aspect of the show.
08:45The aircraft had two pilots in the cockpit.
08:49The pilot in command, Captain Smith Machar, an Indian national from Gujarat.
08:55There was also a co-pilot, an Omani national.
08:58His name is yet to be revealed.
09:01While it is a matter of investigation, currently, the co-pilot is in Saudi custody.
09:07So the first two hours and 15 minutes of the journey were normal.
09:12The flight was cruising roughly at an altitude of around 34,000 feet.
09:22All of a sudden, information that we've been able to piece together indicates that the co-pilot
09:29attacked Captain Smith Machar, the lead pilot.
09:34Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says the attacker used the emergency axe that's
09:40kept in the cockpit to target the pilot in command.
09:43Some passenger reports seem to indicate that the stabbing was done using some kind of a
09:50sharp-edged object, perhaps some kind of a pocket knife.
09:55Whatever be the weapon, the attack was brutal.
09:59Captain Smith suffered serious injuries and he was bleeding profusely.
10:04And then comes the scary part.
10:08The accused, the co-pilot of this aircraft, apparently tried to wrest control of the aircraft
10:17and began purposely pushing the aircraft into a nosedive.
10:24Reports seem to indicate that this was a deliberate attempt to crash the aircraft.
10:30In military parlance, this is known as CFIT, a controlled flight into terrain.
10:39From an altitude of about 35,000 feet, the plane started nosediving.
10:46According to flight tracking data, it descended to about 17,000 feet within just a couple of minutes.
10:5514,000 feet plunged in under 30 seconds initial record.
11:02And this caused massive panic on people.
11:06The sudden dive of the aircraft caused a commotion among the passengers.
11:11The oxygen masks came down.
11:13The plane started rattling and shaking.
11:16Passengers say they thought this was the final moment.
11:20They thought they were going to die.
11:22And then came the part that perhaps explains courage against all odds.
11:29Courage of the pilot, Captain Smith.
11:32Despite being injured, despite bleeding profusely,
11:36the captain immediately sent out an emergency code 7700.
11:43General emergency to the air traffic controller.
11:47Within this, within moments of this, another code went out.
11:52Code 7500.
11:54And this is a hijack alert code.
11:58This was when everyone got activated across the region.
12:03News now comes in that Israel Air Force, their fighter planes took off.
12:09There was talk of a rescue operation.
12:12Or was there an apprehension that Israel thought if this could be a repeat of a 9-11 type of
12:20an incident,
12:21could an aircraft ram into a building once it enters Israeli airspace?
12:26So as soon as this hijack signal was received in international airspace,
12:31there was an emergency alert from Dubai to Tel Aviv.
12:35Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was alerted.
12:38There was an emergency meeting.
12:40Israeli fighter jets were dispatched to track the plane as a security precaution.
12:45But for Captain Smith, the job was still half done.
12:49Even in this situation, Captain Smith, according to reports, showed remarkable presence of mind.
12:56He not only tried to overpower the co-pilot, who had an axe in his hand and was repeatedly stabbing
13:04him,
13:04but he also, despite bleeding profusely, managed to get to the cockpit door from inside.
13:11And he opened the cockpit door because the cockpit door can only be opened from the inside.
13:16Once it's locked, it's an anti-hijacking post-9-11 development.
13:20Now, how he did that in a matter of seconds, when the aircraft had just about levelled or was still
13:28in nosedive,
13:29it, experts and aviation experts say this actually defies logic.
13:34It's almost like mission impossible and yet he did it.
13:37This heroic act was followed by the act of valour, bravery of the crew and the passengers.
13:44They rushed into the cockpit. They realized what was happening.
13:48They saw the co-pilot with the axe and the pilot bleeding profusely.
13:51They not only overpowered the co-pilot, but one of the passengers who'd never flown a plane
13:57and American President Donald Trump described him as a plumber who'd only apparently seen accident videos,
14:07air crash videos, and he was fascinated by aircraft videos.
14:10He actually then went and yanked back the yoke of the aircraft and then the aircraft, it levelled.
14:20Now, this incident, this situation as you see this, some of the passengers sustained injuries in the scuff.
14:29Now, after removing the assailant co-pilot from his seat, an off-duty pilot who happened to be a passenger
14:35on board this flight,
14:36he took control of the aircraft and the plane was still in a rapid nosedive.
14:40They managed to stabilize this aircraft to about an altitude of 15,000 to 17,000 feet
14:46and that is how the plane was saved from crashing.
14:50As all of this was happening, an Israeli dentist on board, he immediately administered first aid to Captain Smith.
14:59He was bleeding profusely and the dentist said his main aim was to ensure, point one, that the bleeding stops.
15:06He didn't want Captain Smith to bleed to death.
15:08Point two, he didn't want the captain to close his eyes or sleep because his apprehension was,
15:14what if he lapses into coma?
15:16So, he repeatedly kept saying, talk to me, talk to me, keep your eyes open, talk to me.
15:20That again is on camera.
15:22The plane that time was near the Jordanian-Saudi border and the pilot was grievously injured.
15:29So, instead of proceeding towards Israel, it was decided to immediately land the aircraft at the closest airport.
15:36The plane was then diverted to Tabuk Airport in Saudi Arabia and it landed there safely.
15:44Now, this is, according to aviation experts, extremely fantastic, almost mission impossible.
15:53But let me quickly bring into this conversation, Captain Rajiv Pratap Roody,
15:57Member of Parliament, Lok Sabha, from Saran Chhapra in Bihar,
16:01former Union Minister for Civil Aviation and Skill Development and a trained pilot.
16:05He is current on an Airbus A320, A321.
16:10He flies regularly.
16:13Sir, welcome.
16:15Your assessment, and if I may, Captain Rudy,
16:19your assessment of what transpired on board the Fly Dubai flight under the command of Captain Smith.
16:25Machar, what do you make of information that's in public domain as of now?
16:31Well, as the only parliamentarian on the globe, I fly big planes with Indigo as an A320 senior first officer
16:40for a very long time, 16 years.
16:42And I've seen the situation, I'm equally disciplined like any other pilot when inside I'm not a politician while flying
16:48an aircraft.
16:49But this is an impossible situation which has arisen.
16:53And we have heard about Marines talking about it.
16:56We have talked about the NSG in India.
16:59We talked about U.S. Marines at the scenes.
17:02No one would have handled this situation, what Captain Smith could do individually.
17:07The very fact that he has been injured, there is an axe in the cockpit which is used for emergency.
17:12That's an emergency equipment.
17:13It is right behind the first officer's seat.
17:16The person or the first officer who has made up his mind to attack his commander,
17:21attacks it with a weapon.
17:22Then he is injured.
17:24There is a fall in the flight.
17:26The flight level, it comes down from 34,000 to they say it's about 16,000.
17:30That means he's intentionally wanting the flight to come down.
17:34So he's doing the maneuvers to push the aircraft down to the earth.
17:37But it does not happen in a plane where everything is functional,
17:40that you cannot just in a fraction of a second push down the aircraft.
17:43It has its own momentum.
17:44It has its own kinetic energy, which it has.
17:47You cannot do that still.
17:48And I think during that point of time, the injured, Captain Smith must have decided that it's an SOS.
17:53He punches the code for distress, first for distress, that is 7,700, four-digit code.
18:00Then he punches the hijack 7,500, which is impossible because when you're injured,
18:05so possibly he could do that, then he must have just rushed across to the door to open it,
18:12while the first officer who was hijacking the situation must have tried to push the plane,
18:17he must have fought time, he must have struggled to get inside there.
18:20And then the amazing are the passengers, and amazing is that pilot who was sitting behind,
18:26whether he was type rated or not type rated, that he came to the cockpit and controlled.
18:30This is an impossible situation.
18:32True.
18:32So, tell me this, sir, would an aircraft flying from Dubai to Tel Aviv and, you know,
18:39we've flown on board a fly Dubai flight from Dubai to Tel Aviv.
18:43It's about a 3-hour, 15-minute, 3-hour, 20-minute long flight.
18:47Would it have a reserve pilot or would there be off-duty pilots on board?
18:52What is your reading that they're current, you know, they're off-way on this kind of a plane,
18:57a Boeing 737 MAX?
19:00No, no, I have not heard about reserve pilots.
19:04There's nothing called a reserve pilot.
19:06Reserve pilot, why should a small journey like this would have a reserve pilot?
19:11There must be pilots.
19:11I really do not know.
19:13Reserve pilot means there must be someone who must be deadheading
19:16or maybe someone is off-duty or deadheading.
19:18But this particular captain also needs to be explained that he's single-handedly.
19:23We always need two pilots to control, but he did it fantastic.
19:25So, first, Captain Smith doing what it is, it's impossible.
19:30The second, the passengers helping them out to do it.
19:32Third, the captain coming and controlling it.
19:34It is an impossible story.
19:37It's a live story which is most, is impossible.
19:41Okay, you describe it as mission impossible.
19:44How would you see, how would you connect all the dots of the situation, of the information
19:49that's in public domain from what passengers say, from what Captain Smith was quoted as saying
19:55and what the flight tracking data shows, sir?
20:00Yes, yes, mission impossible.
20:02It was a suicide mission, it looks like.
20:04So, thank you very much.
20:06And I'm sure Captain Smith has brought pride to us.
20:09No one would have brought such a pride to the...
20:11Indians would be looked up by a single action, not even a politician or a bureaucrat or maybe a...
20:18anyone else, any other citizen would have brought so much of glory to India
20:22as a courageous Indian has proved that Indians are a courageous race.
20:27They care for humanity, they are disciplined and they have...
20:31they love the people and they are actually committed.
20:35Sir, before I let you go, is it too premature to talk about security protocols that need to be...
20:41or that may need to be put in place if a pilot or a co-pilot decides to crash a
20:46passenger aircraft?
20:48At least that's the suspicion as of now.
20:50What kind of security protocols will need to be put in place in future?
20:56That's a...
20:57No, no, we'll get...
20:59That needs to be done again.
21:01That is a completely...
21:03Because the first officer is also responsible for the safety of the flight.
21:07And if we himself in a suicide mode, what do we do?
21:10Is that a big question, we need to discuss it later.
21:12And let the world opinion be formed and let the people who are experts on the subject think about it.
21:18Fair enough.
21:19Fair enough, sir, for joining me here on India First.
21:22Many thanks, Captain Rajiv Pratap Rudy, former Civil Aviation Minister and a trained pilot.
21:28He's current on an Airbus A320.
21:31He's flying even now, sir.
21:32Many thanks for joining me.
21:36I now want to cut across to Israel.
21:39Joining me from Israel is Sharon Haskell, former Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel, Chairwoman of Israel First.
21:48Ma'am, welcome on India First.
21:51Must be a tremendous sense of relief.
21:53Hi, Purov. It's a pleasure to be here.
21:54Thank you very much.
21:56And must be a great sense of relief.
21:58All passengers are back home safe with family.
22:02Was there a real threat?
22:03Was there a real apprehension that this was a repeat of 9-11?
22:07Oh, absolutely.
22:08I mean, we know that we know that from the testimonies of those who neutralize the terrorists, that while they
22:22were trying to strand him and to tie him down, he actually tried to sabotage and destroy the entire board
22:32of where you actually control the airplane.
22:36OK, when they tied him down, he told those brave four Israelis that neutralized him, please kill me.
22:47Please kill me.
22:48And they assume it is because they actually failed their mission.
22:53He failed his mission.
22:54I mean, this was the full intention of crashing this airplane.
22:59OK, and to kill all the civilian, I think more than 150 passengers that was on this flight, including more
23:07than 23 children.
23:10I mean, that is a major, major, major terror attack that was actually, you know, prevented.
23:19Oh, absolutely.
23:20And what a sense of relief.
23:23What is the reading in Israel, one of this incident and two of Captain Smith Machar, the Indian pilot, the
23:31pilot in command?
23:33Oh, wow, his bravery just before he collapsed and his determination to save this flight is what saved those 150
23:45passengers.
23:46You know, as he was battling the co-pilot who was stabbing him, he was able to open the door
23:53of the cockpit so that those civilians would come in to rescue the flight.
23:59They said that as soon as they walked in, Captain Smith collapsed completely.
24:04He was badly injured and there was a doctor on the flight that treated him and stabilized him while they
24:11were landing.
24:12But, you know, that was going while the airplane was with its nose down about to crash.
24:19The civilian, the Israeli civilian that went into the cockpit, just lift the steering wheel in order to try and
24:28raise the airplane back in the air.
24:30I mean, can you imagine this is like a Hollywood movie scene where a civilian is actually rescuing this flight
24:39from a full crash just a minute before it would crash on the ground.
24:44This could have been a 9-11 that would have changed the world entirely.
24:50I don't know whether and how this pilot was radicalized, but what's most important now to investigate is whether this
24:58was an individual initiative or part of a larger terrorist organization that was able to reach the co-pilot,
25:06radicalize him, radicalize him, and persuade him to actually go and execute a terrorist act.
25:11If Iran, the IRGC stand behind it, there are going to be serious repercussions to that.
25:20But is there anything to suggest that there could be IRGC or Iran as some suspect in Israel?
25:29Is there any basis for that suspicion, Ms. Haskell?
25:32So this is under investigations right now.
25:36You know how strong is our intelligence services, okay?
25:42We have some of the strongest, most talented intelligence agency, one in the world, okay?
25:51And we will get into the bottom of it.
25:54The terrorist is right now under investigation in Saudi Arabia.
25:59The UAE legally, I've already requested him to be transferred to the UAE to be investigated there.
26:06I mean, this is a company that is a UAE company.
26:11The flight started from the UAE.
26:13They are responsible really for the legal investigation to really dive in to understand it much better.
26:21We will cooperate with them fully.
26:23We already requested them to share with us some of the investigation of the terrorists, of what had been done
26:30until now.
26:32But we will get to the bottom of it.
26:35So tell me this.
26:36Do you find this curious that the pilot, the co-pilot, was of Omani origin and flying from Dubai to
26:44Israel?
26:45Oman is not a signatory to the Abraham Accord should an Omani pilot have been flying into Israel or do
26:53you find that odd?
26:55No, I won't find that odd because there's other pilots with other nationalities who, you know, are not in relations
27:03with Israel that might land or come.
27:06And, you know, this is something when companies hire pilots, there is so much investigations into their past, into their
27:15jobs, everything.
27:17This might change, though, how we see aviation and security today with staff members, whether it is pilot, co-pilot
27:25or flight attendant.
27:26Because usually in airports, you know, they have the least security check possible because we trust them.
27:34They're part of the company.
27:36They're part of the routine.
27:37You know, they're being trained and they do security interviews and everything that needs to be done.
27:44If this is truly part of a wider terrorist plan with a terrorist organization, I truly believe this will change
27:53the security protocols of aviation staff from now onward in a similar way how 9-11 have changed all security
28:03measures in all airports around the world.
28:07Oh, indeed, the timing of this attack, since you mentioned 9-11, the timing of this suspected terror attack, if
28:15I may, close to the third anniversary of the October 7, 2023 terror attacks on Israel and the 25th anniversary
28:22of 9-11.
28:23Do you see or would you see a correlation or is that too much of a coincidence?
28:29Look, I think in the morning, Prime Minister Netanyahu already sent a message that we know and we have intelligence
28:36about the IRGC plans and, you know, that if they dare to try us, they will find out.
28:46And so he sent that warning already in the morning because of some intelligence messaging.
28:52There wasn't a direct, you know, message specifically about this incident, but it was in the air.
29:01And so we have to investigate that in depth.
29:04I do believe that the more we arrive towards the date of the 7th of October, where a terrorist organization,
29:14Hamas, have infiltrated Israel, executed, butchered, burned alive so many families and civilians and children, you know, raped little girls.
29:25This has given an inspiration to many other terrorist organizations to level their heads up and to attempt to execute
29:35terrorist attacks all around the world against Jews and against other minorities.
29:42I think that if anyone truly understands our position, Israeli position, is the Indian people who faced terrorism, who faced
29:52atrocities, you know, and violence against women, children by terrorism, by radical Islamists.
29:59And when they are successful, that gives them the courage to actually go and commit more terrorist attacks.
30:10So I would say that coming towards those events, that will give maybe the confidence or the inspiration to try
30:20and target Israelis, whether it is in Israel or outside.
30:26Fair enough.
30:27Sharon Haskell, former Debris Foreign Minister of Israel.
30:31Many thanks for joining me here on India Today.
30:34Thank you very much.
30:35And look forward to catching up very soon.
30:38You too.
30:39And thank you very much.
30:41I now want to shift focus and throw this open for a wider discussion.
30:46Squad leader Debolina Deeb is a pilot and an aviation specialist.
30:50David Matlin is an Israeli expert, a former IDF soldier.
30:54Joins us on this broadcast.
30:55Also with us is Wing Commander Sharad Panikar.
30:59Winko Panikar is also a former commander of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner at Air India,
31:04former flight operations inspector at DGCA.
31:08Welcome.
31:10I want to begin by asking you, Captain Panikar, your reading, your reading of this situation based on what we
31:18know so far.
31:20Would you classify this Fly Dubai incident as a cockpit assault, an attempted hijack, a sabotage or a massive terror
31:28attack?
31:32Good evening, Gaurav, good evening viewers.
31:35I am of the opinion that we need to wait and determine as to what is the statement that is
31:43coming out from the captain.
31:45Because that will give us specific clues as to what actually happened at the cockpit.
31:51At this particular point in time, what we are doing is reconstructing what probably may have happened based upon the
32:00multiferous inputs that we have.
32:02What we do know at this particular point in time is that the first officer has apparently attacked the commander
32:10who has resisted the axe attack.
32:14I presume in this case that the weapon that was available in the cockpit is part of the emergency equipment
32:20which is available on all commercial jetliners.
32:23That is the crash axe, that is the crash axe, this was the weapon that is most likely that has
32:28been used to carry out the attack on Captain Smith.
32:32Now, he has resisted the attack.
32:34He has managed to keep control of the plane to the extent possible.
32:38And in this attack, he has asked for help.
32:42He has changed the transponder code.
32:46The transponder, as you remember, is the basic form of non-verbal communication that is available to the pilots.
32:55He has quarked the general emergency code.
32:57And in this process, in the scuffle that has happened, he has gotten severely injured.
33:02And in spite of that, he has still managed to carry out several series of actions, asked for help, opened
33:11the cockpit door.
33:13And despite all this, still tried to keep control of this aircraft.
33:18Once the cockpit door was opened, and then the outside people came in, including the statement of the few Israelis
33:27that we have heard upon social media,
33:30they have found the commander lying on the floor, right next to the cabin door.
33:36So, you're saying it's too premature to conclude that it's a terror attack.
33:39David Matlin, is that also your assessment?
33:42Too premature to conclude that this is a terror attack?
33:45It could have been an altercation between the pilot and the co-pilot?
33:48Or is this something far more severe in your assessment?
33:53I mean, look, when you mocked here, the co-pilot was trying to, first of all, incapacitate or kill the
34:02pilot.
34:03And then some of the Israelis, you know, this has been widely covered in Israel.
34:06All these passengers, personal accounts have been widely circulated.
34:14This guy was also trying to damage and destroy all the controls as he was out of there.
34:19The plane was in a, you know, a free fall.
34:22Look, if you just want to kill yourself, there's other quieter ways to do it.
34:26You know, he was trying to take a whole plane of Israelis down with him.
34:29So, you know, unfortunately, that's where we head these days.
34:32I mean, I'm currently mobilized again in the Israeli reserves right now.
34:36You know, part of what we've been doing a lot, you know, for my usual role in the anchor chair.
34:40And that's because the country's on edge.
34:42There are a lot of threats right now.
34:43There have been a big deployment or redeployment of reserve troops right now.
34:47And these kind of things are, unfortunately, part of the Israeli existence.
34:51True, true.
34:53So, you know, we can absolutely understand, given what we've seen that transpired in Israel on the 7th of October
35:002023.
35:00And the subsequent incidents also.
35:03Skoll leader Das, your assessment, a cockpit assault, attempted hijacking, sabotage or a terror attack?
35:12Good evening, Gaurav.
35:14Like, as we already heard from the other panelists, this is premature to understand what has actually happened.
35:22But other than Captain Smith's version, we also have the CVR, which will be decoded.
35:29And probably it will give us, throw some light to what could be the reason between the attack and the
35:36scuffle.
35:36But I would also feel that there might be a heated argument or a problem in the opinion between the
35:47co-pilot and the captain.
35:48But nothing can lead to this extent of a violence of two matured people who are flying and taking the
35:55responsibility of 174 passengers on board.
35:58Just because of their personal animosity, a situation cannot grow up to this extent.
36:05That is what is my personal feeling, because if there is, we are taught as pilots, and especially when you
36:12become a commander and you're flying for so many years,
36:15we are taught that we have huge responsibility, responsibility of lives.
36:20And it's written outside the cockpit that please leave your worries behind.
36:24This is a very important professional place that you are entering.
36:28So, I somehow do not believe that it can be just a personal altercation.
36:34But what is actually the reason, whether it is a terrorist attack or it's a personal vendetta of the first
36:43officer or it's something else,
36:45will be out, definitely with the help of the CVR and then with the interrogation of the captain.
36:50Captain, and the second pilot, the co-pilot who is also in custody.
36:57But Wing Commander Panikkar, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder.
37:03How long before information in the FDR and the CVR are decoded and analysed?
37:09And would they reveal the full picture?
37:11The flight tracking data seems to indicate a very sharp descent of more than 14,000 feet in a matter
37:18of seconds.
37:19You know, some, the nose went, goes up a little once again, and then it nosedives again.
37:25What will the FDR and the CVR reveal and how long is that likely to take?
37:30Okay, Gaurav, like what's called me to Das has also just mentioned.
37:35The great part about this particular situation, if I can call it great, is that all the participants of the
37:41event are alive
37:43and they are capable of giving their own versions of what happened.
37:46That's number one.
37:48Okay, you have Captain Smith available.
37:50You have the Omani First Officer available.
37:53You've got the cockpit voice recorder, which incidentally records all the events in the cockpit,
37:58all the voices in the cockpit for the previous two hours.
38:00You've got the complete FDR available.
38:02The aircraft is intact, apart from the fact that the rudder has failed.
38:07The rudder appears to have sheared off, possibly because of the aerodynamic loads.
38:11All that I'm saying is at this particular point, all available inputs are present.
38:16So you just need to fill in the blanks.
38:19At this point in time, I would say, while a lot of things point towards, you know, terrorism
38:24and personal animosity and a lot of other stuff, everything will become clear the moment you have
38:30these three inputs.
38:31Specifically to your question, a CVR decoding is not a great thing.
38:36It can happen in a matter of hours.
38:38It can happen in a matter of, you know, a day or two.
38:42This decoding facility is available at almost any base.
38:46Similarly, the decoding of the DFDR is also available at any base.
38:51So I think it's just a matter of hours or days.
38:54We just need to fill in the blanks.
38:56The statement of the captain, the statement of the first officer, decoding the CVR, decoding
39:01the DFDR.
39:02Coming to one specific question that you may have at this particular point in time, there
39:07is absolutely no doubt, as per the flight radar record, that this aircraft has lost something
39:13like 17,000 odd feet in a matter of about two minutes.
39:17The ground speed has gone to an extent of 598 knots, which is 700 knots.
39:25Now, mind you, the ground speed is indicating what the speed is along the ground.
39:30In a descent, let's say in a 20 degree dive, the speed would be about 20% more, which clearly
39:37exceeds the aerodynamic and structural limitations of the aircraft.
39:42Hence the shearing off of the rudder.
39:44Yes, the shearing of the rudder has probably occurred if a certain amount of rudder is
39:50applied at the speeds that have exceeded the structural limitations of the aircraft.
39:56The rudder is just sheared off.
39:58We are very fortunate that despite this, there was no disintegration of the wings, there is
40:04no disintegration of the fuselage, and everything has remained relatively intact, relatively
40:08controllable.
40:09And the two off-duty pilots that were there, that were supposed to take this aircraft back
40:13from Tel Aviv to Dubai, were able to control it and carry out a safe landing.
40:18So, just a question of a little bit of time.
40:22A little bit of time.
40:24Maybe you're saying 24 to 48 hours, we should have much more information in public domain.
40:30Squad Leader Das, the aircraft transmitted squawk 7700 and then code 7500.
40:37Unlawful interference, hijacking and then reverting to 7700.
40:43How difficult or easy would it be to send out these messages while you are under attack,
40:48while the aircraft is in nosedive?
40:51You know, being a pilot, how do you decode this?
40:56Gaurav, I must say that you cannot imagine the amount of bravado and courage Captain Smith
41:02might have been holding on to at that moment when he was injured.
41:06Because when you are injured, the first thing that any person would want to do is save himself.
41:12But again, the training and the things that we learn from being a captain and a commander
41:17tells us to look after the passengers and the people and the aircraft before self.
41:24So, that is where I think the adrenaline pump in him must have come out to do what is needful.
41:30And when we practice, go as per SOPs, the sequence of events that we should do comes into our head
41:38whenever we are faced with a challenge in a chronological order.
41:43So, probably initially when this descent happened or when it was going under control,
41:50the transponder is just ahead of the aircraft, of the seat of the captain in a Boeing.
41:57So, it is easy for him to probably reach out and change it to just aware that something is going
42:04wrong.
42:05And when probably he would have understood that he is being attacked and this is just not a normal confrontation,
42:11but the first officer has some intentions behind it, is when he must have coded hijack
42:18because now the cockpit is not under his control.
42:21When a cockpit is not under a PIC or the commander's control, it is a hijack situation.
42:27So, this is his mental...
42:28So, it is a hijack situation, but then it gets back to 7700.
42:31And the last 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show,
42:35Wing Commander Panikkar, I want to understand from you,
42:37would this require change of protocols, should it be seen as a terror attack?
42:44Are there sufficient systems of checks and balances and oversight
42:48when you are either certifying a pilot to operate a commercial flight?
42:53Would this require more stringent screening of pilots,
42:56including perhaps greater focus on their behavior, on the psychological factors,
43:01who they are engaging with?
43:02What is your reading of this?
43:05First is, Gaurav, prior to entry into any airline,
43:09there is a psychological evaluation, a psychometric series of tests
43:12that ascertain as to what are the basic tendencies of pilots as they enter.
43:18Unfortunately, this is done only at the time of entry.
43:21There is no periodic, let's say, medical evaluation to see, you know,
43:25after a periodicity of two years or five years or whatever,
43:29to check if any radicalization, to check if any attitudes have changed over a period of time.
43:34Once I enter into civil aviation at my induction,
43:37let's say at 20 years of age or 21 years of age,
43:40till the time I retire at 65, there is this once.
43:43Okay.
43:44That's the input that I have for you.
43:47The second is…
43:48Perhaps it would require a change of protocol.
43:50Is that your assessment?
43:52Perhaps.
43:53Fair enough.
43:54The more important thing is that, at the moment, there exists no SOPs.
43:59If somebody within the cockpit or within your flight crew,
44:03you know, turn around on yourself, there is nothing that is available.
44:06Simply because it is not conceivable, you know, that somebody would want to do something like this.
44:12Absolutely.
44:13Absolutely.
44:14Because 9-11 gave us one set of challenges.
44:17Now, perhaps, we are looking at altogether a very different set of challenges.
44:22Squad Leader Das and Wing Commander Panikar for joining me here
44:25and David Mettlin from Israel for joining me on this India Today special broadcast.
44:30Many thanks.
44:31And Israel also recognizes the valor, the grit, the determination
44:37and bravery against all odds of Captain Smith Machar.
44:42In fact, I caught up with Israel's ambassador to India, Reuven Azhar,
44:46who says that Israel will be recognizing the bravery of Captain Machar
44:52and that Israel actually never forgets a friend in need
44:57who they say is a friend indeed.
45:00Listen in to our conversation.
45:07On the third anniversary of the 7th of October terror attacks on Israel,
45:12was there an attempt for another terror strike?
45:15And did Captain Smith Machar, an Indian pilot, play a very critical role in averting it
45:22along with brave passengers from Israel?
45:25With me is Israel's ambassador to India, Ambassador Reuven Azhar.
45:29Ambassador, welcome.
45:31Thank you, Gaurav.
45:32Congratulations that a major terror attack was averted.
45:35But is this, was this a major terror attack?
45:37What is the information that you have, sir?
45:39Well, so it seems according to the witnesses,
45:43the Israeli witnesses that spoke with the prime minister
45:45and gave interviews to the press,
45:48this is a precedent because I don't recall any co-pilot attacking the pilot
45:52in a cockpit ever.
45:56So it seems that not only the co-pilot, the attacker attacked the hero, Captain Smith Machar,
46:06but also after he stabbed him, he tried to malfunction the plane in order to bring it to collapse.
46:12And thanks to the fact that the captain had the resolve and the courage and the bravery
46:18to manage to open the door of the cockpit,
46:22the Israeli passengers managed to enter, to neutralize the attacker
46:26and to begin to, you know, pull the plane up until the crew that was sitting in the passenger cabin
46:37entered and managed to stabilize the situation.
46:39And of course, a doctor that came and saved the life of the captain.
46:44So all of that seems pretty clear right now.
46:47But, of course, we don't know yet what exactly happened
46:50and we're waiting for the results of both the investigation of the attacker,
46:54the investigation of the witnesses,
46:57the analysis of the black box of the plane,
47:00and then probably we'll be able to learn more.
47:02Now, what is your reading or Israel's reading of the timing of this strike that took place
47:09or this attempt that took place?
47:10Well, I don't know exactly, you know, what brought the attacker to do it now,
47:15but no doubt this is a crucial timing.
47:18Not only because we are commemorating the 7th of October in a few days,
47:23but also because this happened only two days after the visit of Prime Minister Netanyahu to the UAE
47:28and, according to reports, his meeting with leaders in the region.
47:32This is an attack against the heart of the Abraham Accords that were signed six years ago.
47:37And Fly Dubai was operating 10 flights per day to Israel.
47:42And they continue to operate them, you know, throughout the war.
47:46And they are only one company, also Etihad and Emirates.
47:49So this attempt to kill peace, to disrupt aviation, to destabilize the region is something that is very dangerous.
48:02And I'm happy that we had this united cooperation against terrorism from ordinary individuals
48:10that raised up to the moment, and without the bravery of each one of them,
48:15180 lives would have been lost.
48:17Now we have to ask ourselves how this could have happened,
48:20and I'm sure that the security agencies and other agencies,
48:24the civil aviation authorities and others, are going to dwell into the issue
48:28in order to make sure that the protocols are adapted to such, you know, scenarios.
48:36That's a very important question.
48:38You raise, Ambassador, on protocols.
48:40Do you see a violation of protocols in this particular incident that a co-pilot targets a pilot?
48:47You know, the origins of the co-pilot, is that a cause for concern?
48:51Especially at a time when UAE and Israel, as you mentioned, because of Abraham Accord,
48:56they not only normalize ties, but they're intensifying the engagement,
49:00and which is being looked at as a way to pave peace in the rest of, you know, West Asia.
49:06Do you suspect one protocol, two other regional players at play here, since there's a conflict on?
49:13Well, as I said, I don't know yet, but there's no doubt that there is an intensification of cooperation
49:20in the security field and in the intelligence field.
49:23In the last few years, we are defending the skies of the Middle East together
49:27with the cooperation of the United States and armies of the region and outside the region.
49:33This is very important, and this attack only, you know, stresses the importance of intensifying the cooperation even more,
49:40because we are not going to surrender to terrorism.
49:43And if we have to draw an example, this is the example,
49:45because the brave captain and the brave passengers and the brave crew of the company
49:52has shown us that when we unite, we can defeat terrorism.
49:56So this is the responsibility of the government.
49:58So we know that all the protocols were activated when the hijack sign was sent,
50:05and our civil aviation authorities, our air force entered into alert, combat jets were actually sent,
50:13and our prime minister was alert because, you know, whether this co-pilot would have been able to take control
50:23of the flight,
50:24maybe Israel would be attacked itself, and then the prime minister would have to make the call
50:29on whether to neutralize the plane.
50:30So this is very, very sensitive business.
50:33We will have to do the effort, the extra effort, to make sure that our protocols work,
50:38that people that shouldn't be involved in flying this plane won't be involved in the future,
50:44and we are going to make sure that happens.
50:48Sir, that's a very big point you're making.
50:50So are you saying that one of the apprehensions was that this co-pilot,
50:54apparently a man of Omani origin,
50:56he could have taken control of the plane,
50:59either flown it to the ground,
51:00or flown it into a building like a repeat of 9-11?
51:04Well, we cannot discard that,
51:07and we have to be ready,
51:09and that's why I think it is essential
51:12that we will continue this cooperation,
51:15so we make sure that such incidents won't happen in the future.
51:20Sir, who investigates this?
51:21UAE, Israel, Saudi Arabia, or together?
51:24Well, I think that each country is going to get their relevant agencies involved,
51:30and once the results come out,
51:33both on the civil aviation side and the intelligence side,
51:37we will find a way to communicate,
51:39as we have found it in the past.
51:42Sir, what can you tell us?
51:44What have you been able to learn,
51:45or what have agencies in Israel been able to learn
51:48about the role of Captain Schmidt Machar in this entire incident?
51:52Well, according to the witness that was interviewed
51:55by the Prime Minister himself yesterday,
51:58the part that the Captain Schmidt Machar played was crucial,
52:04because if we wouldn't have been able to...