- 1 week ago
GQ’s Zach Baron sits down for a tête-à-tête with American actor and writer Ethan Hawke at Red Hook in Brooklyn in New York. The five-time Oscar nominee talks about working in service of his maker, life beyond fame and passing the torch to the next generation.Credits:Director: Camille RamosDirector of Photography: Shirley ChanEditor: Grant SponableTalent: Ethan HawkeHost: Zach BaronSenior Producer: Michael BeckertLine Producer: Jen SantosProduction Manager: Evie RoopTalent Booker: Dana MatthewsCamera Operator: Marcus Lewis, Carlos AraujoGaffer: David DjacoSound Mixer: Tyson DaiProduction Assistant: Karla TorresEthan Groomer: Jennifer BrentZach Groomer: Yev Wright-MasonPost Production Supervisor: Stella ShortinoSupervising Editor: Rob LombardiAssistant Editor: Justin SymondsExecutive Producer: Cara MarceanteDirector, Creative: Nick CollettDirector, Programming: Jeremy Clowney
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00very interesting you said it could have been the beginning of something but then i got divorced
00:03in my personal life that's told you the truth yeah
00:20as i told you i'm gonna try an introduction okay go for it uh you know i like to stare
00:25into the
00:25other person's eyes when i do these just just so you're gonna introduce me to me
00:29yeah i'm gonna use the second person pronoun if that's okay yeah ethan hot you are a generational
00:35icon from your work in reality bites dead poet society you are a five-time oscar nominee
00:44a novelist true um and currently the star of uh the very fun tv show the lowdown that's sweet
00:51all these things are facts you are also uh based on one lunch we had the odeon years ago just
00:57an
00:58incredibly fun guy to hang out with and talk to um so ethan hawk welcome to one more question
01:04thanks for doing this well thanks for having me the first time we met was in 2018.
01:09normally i feel like i would be like pretty caught up on a career you know like kind of glance
01:14see
01:14like all right this let me let me catch up since i last saw you 20 films ish five or
01:20six seasons of
01:21television uh and a novel what what accounts for that pace um what accounts for that pace uh i you
01:31know probably say something really corny like you know there's a there's no such thing well it's a
01:37great that's it could be credited to thoreau but like a line about if you if you do what you
01:44love you
01:44don't work a day in your life and i've been really i've had an interesting ride on this level where
01:52i've really gotten to like do things that i really want to do and that gives me a lot of
01:58energy and
01:59that's the positive way of saying it and the negative way of saying it would be that i'm a little
02:03um restless and uncomfortable and doing things makes me feel better when you say uncomfortable
02:12uncomfortable what do you mean you know life is kind of scratchy and um what's you know what i mean
02:21by uncomfortable um it's a feeling being dissatisfied or um ill at ease uh that would be the that's the
02:30negative way of of portraying it and both are true one is that like i really took that whole follow
02:38your bliss thing you know i was in dead poet society and robin williams looked me in the eyes
02:43and said gather ye rosebuds while ye may and i took that shit seriously you know um and it i
02:50think i
02:51only realized later what a profound impact that movie had on kind of like to to have your first experience
02:59in the arts be that movie which is this mantra of carpe diem and everything that that film is about
03:07was something i really took to heart that's the positive spin on it and the negative things i'm
03:11just always uncomfortable so uh they're both true and it is what you're saying that work alleviates the
03:17discomfort like that there's like some otherwise you're like and maybe i'm revealing too much about
03:23myself right now but otherwise you're kind of staring into the void and the void is staring back
03:27and so it's like all right there's something about action and activity that makes the void
03:35go quiet and even as i say that uh then my next thought if you were saying that to me
03:41i'd say
03:41why are you so uncomfortable with the void why not just sit still and stare it in the eyes and
03:46look at
03:47the galaxy and realize that everything's happening all by itself and it doesn't need your assistance
03:52um but i just like i like writing i like acting i like being around people i like
04:01other people's um ideas and what they come at the world with and i find it really that wakes me
04:10up in
04:10the morning there are actors who i think fear if they slow down things will just stop
04:19out that's not driving me i i know that feeling there's a um one of my favorite i'm gonna butcher
04:26it but i read this obituary of paul schofield who's a great english actor man for all seasons was the
04:33thing that i saw him in when i was young but he was really amazing actor and i actually met
04:38him a couple
04:39times at benefit performances and things like that he died and and they asked him at the end of his
04:45life
04:45why he was he'd been performing at his local church and he'd stopped performing in the west end or
04:52broadway or something somebody had interviewed him saying well if you can still perform why aren't you
04:57performing for bigger audiences and he said well i really like walking to work and i've always only
05:04performed for my maker anyway so i really don't care who's in the audience i feel that way that there's
05:11all the work is in service of uh some dialogue that i'm having with whatever that other force is
05:20it's like giving birth to the universe and the the all slowing down and stopping thing where you say
05:27like that that kind of thrills me uh i don't know i'd love to be on the moon um i'd
05:35love to uh
05:36uh the the accumulation of status and power and and money and those things that seem to
05:47propel culture um i've always been incredibly um suspicious of and so when you say slow down and
05:55stop it's like oh would that all go away that would be really wonderful because then i could just make
05:59things yeah if i were like name all those projects do you think you could do it this isn't a
06:05pop quiz i
06:05think i'm more trying to figure out how tightly or loosely you hold any one thing your word down
06:12i hold the things pretty tightly that i'm working on right now there's some projects that really stay
06:20with me um that feel connected or that i'm i identify with in some way usually just having to do
06:28with how
06:28hard i worked on them what um makes you say yes to something at this point was thinking about it
06:37before this interview started and
06:42to a large extent i haven't really said yes to anything um so many of the things i've been doing
06:49the last 10 years have been self-motivated yeah it's it's more me asking somebody else to say yes
06:55really yeah like you know you take oh good lord bird or blue moon or the weight or the lowdown
07:01these are all projects that were born out of friendship and out of some kind of shared love
07:11that scary word um is love a skateboard i think it comes off poorly um it's it's so overused but
07:22it's
07:22such a powerful real thing and when you really have love for material like uh
07:31like link letter and i just absolutely loved this piece of writing that was blue moon
07:37and we just had a passion for it we for years we just talk about it and so i didn't
07:42say yes to that
07:43project it was you know a really good friend of mine sent me this really interesting piece of writing
07:49and we geeked out over it for years and then we started asking people for money to make it and
07:56the lowdown happened with sterling harjo uh and our friendship it happened really or organically and
08:04naturally and uh the weight was born the same way with the director uh or really just wanted to work
08:12together and having a shared sensibility about a kind of story we wanted to make and so the idea that
08:19i'm sitting there at my desk like reading scripts going no no yes yes no no it doesn't really happen
08:25like that um every now and then it'll happen i was in the northmen or something and that's not that
08:31was a project like moon night yeah yeah those like oscar isaac sent me new moon night and uh robert
08:37egger sent me the northmen say would you do that and then that's kind of a job that i said
08:42yes to
08:42you um and what makes me do that is usually the other people the talent evolved and if i see
08:49an opportunity to contribute sometimes it'll be a really cool project but i already played that
08:54character or i don't sometimes i i find that playing the roles that i pick they end up really
09:02impacting my psyche and if i just don't want my psyche to go that direction i've just learned
09:08some say no to the same folks yeah you told me something interesting uh when we last spoke you
09:13you said something to the effect of um the roles i'm proudest of the movies i love the most are
09:21not
09:21the ones that paid me and you listen you're laughing there's a direct correlation i find that the more
09:28you love a project the less you get paid you know uh it's you said you said boyhood you said
09:36the before trilogy you said first reform yep the poet society yep uh i wondered if blue moon has since
09:43made that list i don't you know oh yeah you know you don't if you want to beat the algorithm
09:50you know uh it's very difficult to do that and be paid you know the victory of blue moon is
09:56that that
09:56movie exists at all you know the algorithm is not asking for that movie uh the world is not demanding
10:02that piece of entertainment um we are humbly begging you for watching uh and and usually um
10:12if you're being paid a lot of money it's because the algorithm wants it they bought it they're paying
10:17you for something you know and so you know the quality of i mean you know like if you get
10:24to act
10:25in a shakespeare play or something it's like it's breath you sit there and memorize your lines it's like
10:29a gift i mean it my job is so fun but you get paid 234 a week to do that
10:36you know yeah and you know uh
10:40that's okay i love blue moon for the record um and i remember listening to you and link later talk
10:47about when it came out you guys have this great creative collaboration it seemed like on that one
10:52i don't say things got weird but it like required something different between the two of you guys
10:58well link later is an athlete you know he grew up a baseball player and part of what makes him
11:03a great
11:04director is kind of what makes a great coach is that certain players need different coaching than
11:13others there's not one right way to coach and the people that are great at it understand wow this
11:18player needs motivation this player you know like if you ever read phil jackson's books or something
11:24he's very yeah like coaching dennis rodman is very different than coaching michael jordan sure it's
11:28it's it's a and see one set of rules doesn't in in a slightly different way directing me i think
11:37in
11:38that movie was requiring a different way of working for me and he had to be a different kind of
11:44coach
11:46um things that he'd normally find funny for me he's not going to find funny and so he was really
11:51tough
11:51on me on that movie he was just you know he was not um a charmer and um but i
11:58think
11:59it was really motivated by how small that target was and how much
12:05when you're really good friends there's a trap you can fall into which is you just having a good time
12:12and we're both we took it's such an amazing opportunity to get to make something you really
12:19believe it and um and you can't waste that and i think he understood that that movie was a sprint
12:26meaning
12:26it was a short shoot and we just had to do our absolute best and he didn't want to be
12:32lazy in
12:32any way it's not like to be honest like he didn't need to be so tough i drive myself really
12:38hard i don't
12:39like to think that i need that but it he was challenging me to be the actor that i have
12:49been
12:50talking about for 25 30 years he said the role required you to act this kind of haunted me when
12:56i heard him say it like a guy who had gotten laid less in life than you had and i
13:00was like
13:02yeah i mean that's you know larry didn't isn't has no sexual confidence
13:09right and he's broken and hurt over that that aspect of his life is a is a is a wound
13:17and so
13:19we needed to take that really seriously i mean it's it would make it sound like a joke now but
13:23but but but that had to be a big part of who he was it was driving his no confidence
13:29um in that
13:32aspect of his life and so rick was trying to pummel that out of me so he shaved my head
13:37how hard was that to lose that confidence i find that with really great writing
13:45like acting's just easy yeah i mean that's that's it was it hard it was hard that's probably there's
13:51a few times in my life where i feel like i was pushed to the wall of my my talent
13:55whatever it is
13:56you know if you play mcbeth or something you're going to go to the wall you're but you're never
14:00going to play the part as well as it deserves to be played you're just going to fail it's just
14:04how
14:05are you going to fail but i do find that really really fun so to make it sound like it
14:10was to say
14:10it was hard uh is uh not interesting to me because i loved it so uh i wouldn't have wanted
14:20it any other
14:20way you were nominated for an oscar for that film but for your performance did that
14:26sound ridiculous when i say this hell out but did that mean anything to you um yeah
14:34yeah i mean i love acting and um our culture takes that prize really seriously
14:42um i was really impressed with um the other people i was nominated with and the people have
14:50nominated for the past so it's a it's a strong club um i don't like those kind of barometers put
14:59on art you know i i resist it on some instinctual level um but i'd definitely prefer to be nominated
15:06and then complain about it that's definitely the way that i'd like to go you're as i mentioned before
15:12up to five three acting nominations for uh i believe training day boyhood and this and then two for
15:19writing on the before movies does that feel high low just the right amount to you
15:27um you know what i when i was younger what i really really coveted um was uh
15:36juliet binoche has won best actor at con berlin and venice that's that that's badass
15:46you know you know because that those are jury prizes there's no campaigning for that you know
15:52what i mean the movie doesn't have to be a hit you don't beat it you don't need to have
15:55a good um
15:57publicity angle that is so much uh there's so much big business attached to the oscars you know that
16:05that's slightly different whereas i those those jury prizes that are really worth coveting and i don't
16:09have a single boy not one not one how is that ratio i'm just a just a loser um i
16:18think i think it's
16:19it's just envy that's kept me from the prize that's envy of your career yeah they're just jealous of me
16:25yeah they're jealous yeah he doesn't need this yeah yeah he's doing he's doing just fine it's kind of like
16:29um yeah no i don't know i i try not to um indulge those aspects of we're all hungry for
16:39more attention
16:40and more praise and to fan those flames inside yourself is is dangerous um you you got to take
16:48it as a compliment it feels great when i hear you say he's been nominated i've been nominated five
16:54times i think that sounds really cool it's cool i'd be really it's legit cool and the young there's
17:00you know there's still like a 13 year old inside here right and that 13 year old goes that true
17:04that's awesome yeah great yeah yeah so we i feel particularly lucky because with all the films
17:10that you mentioned like are things that are really important yeah i love these projects yeah so five
17:14or five and that in that respect yeah yeah yeah there's no it's not there's not a fluke in there
17:19no
17:19no you and i had actually i asked you the last time we sat down i i i because training
17:26day was
17:26the first nomination did that feel like the beginning of something or the end of something
17:31and you said you said something um very interesting you said it could have been the beginning of
17:36something but then i got divorced in my personal life that's told you the truth yeah is that uncommon to
17:47tell the truth yeah in public yeah yeah it's scary scary to tell the truth the world's cold and mean
17:53and people are critical and people aren't your best friend you know they're they see things through a
18:00lens you know that sometimes maybe it's accurate but it can be um uh uncomfortable and um but yeah that
18:10that was the truth that was like a professional high water mark that then quickly turned into a personal
18:16uh you know disaster zone i am now both honored that you told me the truth and slightly guilty
18:22for bringing it up again and making content out of it um i'm not scared in preparing for this i
18:28read
18:29the most recent novel a bright ray of darkness which 2021 seems to be very much about this period it
18:36was yeah yeah very much so for those that don't know the plot of this book uh it's about an
18:44it's about an actor who is going through marital troubles castigating himself for infidelity and
18:53drug use while starring in the play the henry the fourth of broadway which you actually did the last
18:58part um was it really as gnarly as this depicted in the book i again i understand how the fiction
19:07works i don't want to be like this is literal but i don't know how other people write but you
19:13know i i
19:14am an actor and i really i like to direct and i like to write and i've learned about them
19:22through
19:24the center piece of my life being acting i learned about writing as an actor i learned about directing
19:30as an actor and so there's kind of like these shadow characters in a it's it's a it's not
19:40you know you hear this phrase auto fiction it's like i i'm like i have a shadow self and there's
19:45like
19:45there's a for example like the before trilogy jesse there's certain things that happen to me
19:51that i feel like oh that could happen to jesse and that could be like and it starts to take
19:57on
19:57the story and a narrative and a metaphor that's not real like jesse's not me but there's an aspect
20:04of me that is like jesse and likewise was william harding in the in bright ray of darkness it's like
20:13a shadow self it's there's aspects pulled from other people there's aspects pulled from my real life
20:19i kind of bought that whole right what you know thing they tell you in school and i felt like
20:24if i had
20:25anything to offer literature you know don delilah would have to do like 30 years of research to
20:32know what i know about the life of an actor you know so if i wanted to contribute i should
20:36probably
20:38use that experience um and what i really wanted to write about was the healing transformative power of
20:46art and so i had to create a character that was going through a depression use what i know about
20:52depression and um and let him be transformed by an experience i'm pulling all 25 30 years of experience
21:02in the theater to create this fictional show i had to pick a play i'd done before because i wanted
21:07to
21:07pick one i knew intimately and had something to say about it seemed to fit the themes that i was
21:12writing about so i i don't quite i don't even feel in control of that part of my brain
21:18does that make sense yeah and i and i trust me i understand how art works it's always like weird
21:24to
21:24be like hey this character in a book did this thing and then i can answer for it yeah um
21:28but one thing
21:30that did stand out with the kind of the degree to which that character is harsh on himself you know
21:36it's
21:36kind of like i think there's like a line that you know what is it like i was we're just
21:40a rag man and
21:41was making a fool of myself from the world tabloid stage or something to that effect you know and then
21:45there's this very interesting thing in there where the character is sort of like i have this public
21:51facing persona as a nice soulful guy and i don't actually think i'm a nice soulful guy and in those
21:57moments i i am like i'm like but you the real life ethan hawk does seem like a nice soulful
22:03guide to me
22:04yeah well you seem like a nice soulful guide too but that doesn't mean that you sometimes
22:10don't um turn the microscope inward and see aspects of you that are not public facing and ones
22:17that you don't like and i don't see anything wrong with scouring them and looking at them um
22:25and none of us are one thing yeah all the time you know and the public facing thing is asking
22:34us
22:35to be one thing or be something identifiable or um people can be loving and kind and responsible and
22:43humble and they can have a temper tantrum and like and where does that temper tantrum come from
22:49where where where is that seed and you know i love i love fiction because of its power to go
22:59like
22:59deep inside yeah you know um there's things like human sexuality that if you show on film you have
23:08to have a relationship with pornography of like photographing people's bodies whereas you know
23:15like you can read john updike or pick whoever you want who can really talk about human sexuality and
23:21our sexual identity is a part of our selves how we relate to the world it's not something to be
23:27afraid
23:27of or never speak of um but literature is a great place for the spiritual life all the things that
23:36are that somehow get smaller when you photograph look at to your point about public facing
23:43versions of ourself i think you also read at some point in that book fame is a black death
23:49which again maybe is in your opinion maybe it's his but well i wouldn't be the first person to say
23:57that like there's an aspect of celebrity that is like a disease um and you can handle little bits
24:07of it it's a form of isolation and a form it's like being put in a zoo right and zoo
24:12animals go nuts
24:14and so do human beings and it seems like a kind of nice isolation because people are giving you money
24:20and they're telling you you're wonderful but nobody's being real with you yeah and that makes people
24:25insane um and they start scratching trying to find some real life and sometimes people do that with
24:36some people do that with acting out or getting in fights or what whatever the ways that people do it
24:40but to not take
24:45fame seriously as a corrosive problem is to this to miss it that's not all it is you can do
24:52a lot of great things with it you know i like to make great movies with it or at least
24:57try to yeah
24:58yeah you know um but but to ignore the fact and in that moment the book that is he's talking
25:04to an
25:05older actor who he really respects and the one of the gist is you have to ask yourself what god
25:13you're
25:13chasing you know and what the the king in that book is saying is that you know if you want
25:20to live a
25:20meaningful substantive life in the arts there is a path if you want to chase the black death
25:27that's a path too yeah and sometimes they overlap yeah but you have to be very um awake to see
25:37which path you're on yeah yeah returning to this post training day moment in your life you told me then
25:45another thing that was interesting you said after that there was kind of a new material
25:50pressure to the work you know you were like all of a sudden i had to provide and do this
25:54and that
25:54um as far as your acting career with um and i wondered if you still feel that pressure today
26:00well i have four kids that's an answer that's the responsibility is that that if i don't meet nothing
26:07else matters you know like you hear people say that all the time about you know waking up and
26:14being grateful for our health because if you don't have it nothing else matters you know and and um you
26:21know my joke always is you know you have a a toothache or something and you say god if only
26:25i didn't have
26:26this toothache i'd be having such a good day and then two weeks later you wake up you don't have
26:30a
26:30toothache you don't wake up in the morning it's just all day it's like thank god i don't have a
26:34toothache
26:34you forget all about it yeah and and so health is one thing my kids and my love for them
26:40it's daily
26:42it's omnipresent so you but if if i don't meet that responsibility it doesn't matter you could sit
26:50here and tell me i have 19 oscar nominations and i still did it well it wouldn't yeah it would
26:56have
26:56zero meaning in fact it would tell a different story because it means i obviously prioritize something
27:02else yeah yeah yeah it would it would tell a different story and um so that responsibility
27:11gives so much more than it takes you know i mean it's it's been such a joy to watch my
27:18kids grow up
27:19you have young kids uh and my youngest is now 15 and there's a tremendous
27:30sadness um realizing that this chapter of raising young kids is complete
27:38you know it's like wow i i have i have my kids are all you can talk to them all
27:43they're all human
27:44beings yeah formidable impressive which is amazing cool it's it's it's something i kind of look forward
27:51to to be honest but but you're gonna miss having a two-year-old a four-year-old you don't
27:54know it when
27:55you're in it because it's they don't sleep when they're in pain um uh i don't know what you're
28:00talking about but uh but you do miss it you can't go back and visit that four-year-old
28:06you know i miss them sometimes you know the younger versions of that yeah yeah um
28:16first reform to just come out when you are speaking last and you said something interesting
28:20about that family said the universe is changing what it wants from me and i wonder
28:26what the universe wants for me right now me too yeah me too i always wonder that
28:33and i think that's we're here to be of use to ourselves and to each other and um you have
28:42to really
28:44sit still with yourself to kind of hear what's being asked of all of us and sometimes it's really
28:51really humble you know this idea that it's all some grand dream like that what the universe wants
28:56is for you to accomplish something not sure that's true not for everybody not all the time is a lot
29:04uh i mean i think your point about that we just stumbled on about if i were if you were
29:10sitting
29:10here saying five oscar nominations and uh something were negatively happening to my family
29:17how quickly the meanings of those accomplishments would evaporate and yet we orient our lives around
29:23the accomplishments you you know and um we list them and wear them like feathers or you know uh medals
29:31or
29:32something um the only thing that's really real is the relationships do you think there is now a
29:38generation of like moviegoer television watcher that doesn't know you as a kind of generational icon
29:47all tons yeah really yeah it's amazing you know i mean on one level it's i've done a lot of
29:52things but
29:53i'm gonna swear it's it's fascinating you know i was at the airport the other day and
29:58and the guy said to me hey wow you still acting you know i said i said yeah just i
30:06said good for you
30:08keep it up you keep fighting i was like well he doesn't think i did anything since dead poet society
30:13or something like that you know and there are people that know me from training day and don't think
30:17i've acted in anything else so there's people that think the only thing that i ever did that mattered
30:22was before sunrise and there's people that only watch horror films and they think that poor guy
30:29hasn't had a job since sinister and you know one of the things i really like about my career
30:34is that i i've played in in a lot of different genres and a lot of different types of movies
30:41um and so people who aren't interested you like you're interested in movies as a form and
30:47you're interested in multiple genres you're interested in reading you're interested like so
30:51a lot of people don't know i wrote a book a lot of people don't know that i was they'd
30:56never heard of
30:56blue moon um and probably first time they ever heard of it was oscar night and then they thought
31:03what the hell is that looks there uh and um you know so there's i feel really lucky actually to
31:12answer
31:12that question um that i have a certain level of fame that is very pleasing to me if i'm allowed
31:19to say
31:20that which is that i'm getting to work with really talented people and i really can go to the grocery
31:26store and there's there's a certain level of fame above me where life gets really uncomfortable um
31:33and and um i'm really glad that i never kind of pushed beyond that i'm 44 i'm part of a
31:42generation of
31:43people who were like teenagers in the 90s did a lot of identity formation then and at the time
31:51you know this well because it was literally your life
31:55these movies like um reality bites or before sunrise basically come out back to back you were a
32:03spokesman for a generation you you you did wear that responsibility for some time whether you liked
32:09it or not you know you did and and i think that was sort of what i was asking about
32:14is like for a
32:14while whether you wanted to or not that was like a flag that you were waving or something that people
32:20associated you with you know i wondered if like lately it's like oh maybe maybe i can like put down
32:27that flag you know or maybe you feel like you're still waving it i don't know no i i i
32:32i am very much
32:34aware of of what you speak um and uh it does as my generation has matured um those kind of
32:42labels
32:43get less interesting those kind of labels are really interesting to young people like putting yourself
32:49in a box you know i'm this type of person i'm a punk rocker i'm a deadhead i'm a you
32:56know i'm a jock
32:57i'm a science nerd i'm a like you know we're all trying to put ourselves in a label and gen
33:01x was a
33:02thing in reality bites and you know link letter just made slacker and then we made before sunrise
33:07together and there was i look back on it now uh with a real sense of humor uh i i
33:17kind of enjoy it
33:18at the time it was um i was like oh i don't want to wear anybody's i don't want to
33:23carry a flag for
33:24anybody i don't know i don't even understand what that means
33:29and uh and now it matters less and so i guess i can laugh about it yeah i mean i
33:38mean it's interesting
33:39actually if you if you really think it's fascinating how like kerouac was destroyed by um the beat
33:46generation thing and alan ginsburg outlived it you know at the end of his life he was just a great
33:52poet
33:53and he had you know he had changed with the times as as a poet and he wasn't boxed in
34:02by the beat
34:02generation thing as whereas i feel like kerouac took it really seriously and in that combined with the
34:07ton of alcohol you know corrode eroded the foundations of the poet in him um dylan has survived so many
34:16different chapters you know the great the really great artists can can grow and change with their times
34:23and you know taking out the really good artist part that's the category that you hope to find
34:28yourself in or maybe you can want to call i'm a student i'm i'm a pupil in that church you
34:33know these
34:33are the that i'm a monk of that order if you will like i'm that's what i'm trying to do
34:38is live a
34:39substantive meaningful life in the arts you know that's like uh that's my goal i both like what you're
34:48saying i also think like if i were to explain to my children yeah like where i come from on
34:57some
34:57level i i might just be like here here's a double feature it's reality bites and before sunrise look
35:03at this guy if you want to understand and like don't get me wrong i i don't even think i
35:09was like the
35:10deepest disciple of that that that style of ethan hawk in the 90s but like it was sort of so
35:15pervasive and so
35:17persuasive i think at the time or embodied a thought that many other people have besides those
35:22characters i might be like watch this if you want to understand me and also if you want to see
35:27a world
35:28that is now completely gone and is never coming back and i'm i i i feel bad about mourning it
35:35because
35:35i'm kind of with you theoretically on the let's move forward but there's a part of me that's like ah
35:40yeah but don't you mourn everything i mean it's just like tick tick tick tick tick the clock is
35:46always ticking you know and everything something's coming something's going arrivals and departures
35:51always happening and and uh i mean i feel that way about the way you might feel about those movies
35:58is
35:58kind of the way that i felt about the outsiders yeah you know uh that movie came out when i
36:05was like
36:05around i was the perfect age you know i was 13 14 i was the the age of the younger
36:12kids in it i just read
36:14the book you know and then the movie came out and that was an ethos and a style a swagger
36:24that that i
36:27wanted i wanted to live inside that movie i wanted to be that movie um and and that's gone
36:36gone all that's gone and you know the 90s are gone but
36:45do you feel like what's cool about them we carry with us yeah although i would like murder to be
36:51in europe without a cell phone and any money right now do i have to yeah but we didn't even
36:56know how
36:56good we had it my daughter showed before sunrise you know my oldest daughter to some friends
37:02and she asked them what they thought i thought i loved that movie but it was just so unrealistic
37:09what was i was they didn't have phone why wouldn't they share their number like we didn't have cell
37:15phones they thought we were making an artistic choice to have jesse and celine not have a phone
37:23you told me a story about this time about being at the oscars
37:28this is in reference to sort of generational energy that you had then
37:31and it was like you know you're you and link later and friends and i think you told sir by
37:35going
37:36the oscars and seeing i think it was jack nicholson and warren beatty um presenting an award and i think
37:42a friend of yours was like get off the stage old man is this ringing a bell yeah it occurred
37:48to me
37:48read it reading i'm probably as old as those guys were it happens so fast
37:54do you feel differently about that story now being at the same age as them
38:02no i still like that story i think that that's the way young people are supposed to think
38:07like give me my turn yeah give me my turn you've had the mic too long and what i like
38:12about it is
38:15if you don't have anything to say you should let go of the mic
38:18you know and there are you're we're starting to see you know younger voices really take form the
38:26way it was so thrilling like i remember walking out of slacker i remember walking out of pulp fiction
38:30and feeling like wow that's my generation my generation is talking in yeah in the ether you
38:38know we now and and now i'm seeing younger generations talking making art feel like
38:44and the energy is coming up behind you in that way come come on come on come on come on
38:48take the
38:48mic do you feel like it's there yeah sure it's definitely there some of your kids are like taking
38:54on the industry a bit do you i mean do you feel like they're confronting the same world that you
38:58confronted when you were a kid or do you think things have radically changed
39:05i don't i'm kind of believer that everything substantive about life doesn't really change that
39:13really the most important essential questions you know love our parents our children our community
39:20justice injustice um those kind of big real issues are are constant on the surface level it's radically
39:33different what what the internet what the tower of babel has done to us is doing to us there are
39:41going
39:41to be massive amounts of books written about what's happening to our attention spans and um
39:49books that no one will read but yeah books that no one will read wow that's dark so true um
39:56or maybe not yeah i believe in rebellion you know and and i i think we're fundamentally not superficial
40:04um and um and i think once people are going to wake up and punch back um and there there's
40:14going to be
40:15massive movements in music and massive movements in live theater and massive movements and people getting
40:22together and uh you know we're not done you know we're an ongoing poem so it's not like it all
40:31stopped
40:31today just with this some kind of harsh reality so i i believe in rebellion and and i uh
40:40it's always turn churning up the soil you know so don't worry that the the money and the greedy
40:49bastards that you know think they control everybody they always lose in the end and they're all they're
40:54going in the grave eventually um they think they're winning but they're losing because their lives are
41:00worthless you are among other things um about to come out with the second season of a television show
41:09the low that's true you guys shoot the show in oklahoma right tulsa oklahoma yeah so i think there
41:15will be actors of your age and stature would be like i'm not shooting a whole tv show in tulsa
41:21oklahoma yeah
41:22well those people don't deserve to shoot a movie in tulsa oklahoma okay and that's the truth that is
41:30the attitude of uh um a lost soul um tulsa is amazing um the center of this country is amazing
41:40um the thing about my friend sterlin uh is he's just introduced me to so many people
41:46uh and there's so many fascinating communities and musicians and artists and politicians who are
41:53doing cool things and um civil leaders and uh it's there's aspects of it that are tough for sure
42:03but i think i was less to be fair trying to diss tulsa then and more trying to be like
42:10the idea of people want to live in their penthouse leaving my penthouse in wherever i live to to to
42:16just go work super hard you know um yeah at a time where maybe one doesn't need exactly to work
42:24super
42:24hard uh that was the spirit of that's when you i don't want the people of oklahoma to be like
42:28why you
42:29why are you talking about that because that's not what's the best that's not what you said what you're
42:32saying is why do i not want to live in a place like this and and and like count my
42:38academy award
42:38nominations yeah or paint you know um uh it would be fun to paint in here that's all sure no
42:44i know
42:44what you mean um but i think that's when when you
42:52adam at a fraser like there's a spirit to the lowdown that is connected to my spirit and
43:04uh uh sterling is a real artist and i saw reservation dogs and was like the first really
43:10new thing on television i'd seen and it felt like cinema to me whatever people mean when they say that
43:17word like what is it's meaning i think what it means to me is when somebody is expressing themselves
43:23then they're not reaching their hand in your pocket and taking out a 20 bill yeah you know and i
43:29hadn't
43:29seen it and it was funny and it was unpretentious and it was punk and um and that's what drives
43:38me
43:38and so if he lives in tulsa and he wants to make a show in tulsa and i'm is inviting
43:45me to collaborate
43:46with him but i want i want to make i don't want to waste your time i want to make
43:52something worth seeing
43:53and um if you worry too much about how many pairs of shoes you have or um what you're going
44:00to buy
44:00you just lost you'd lost the plot you know we're all going to be dead in five minutes and and
44:05i've
44:05only got a handful of moments to try to make something worth your time and so stone has given
44:11me that opportunity so i'm not and the the opportunity pays me back because i so you go you
44:16leave your penthouse and you go to tulsa oklahoma and you meet all these amazing people and you get to
44:20you know work this is a very awkward question that maybe it shouldn't be a question at all but i
44:30was
44:30thinking watching the show the other day on paper it's a very almost like a typecast version of you
44:40right it's like a a guy who owns a bookstore you know what i'm saying who's a writer who is
44:46like
44:46you know kind of it's like it's like the it's the version of you that we're talking about before
44:52kind of like the 90s on paper i actually find your performance to be completely unlike that version
44:59of ethan hawk that's familiar my question to you awkwardness is why do i think that
45:09i know exactly what you mean oh man that makes me feel so much better for me what i felt
45:15like
45:17sterling has something he's trying to say with the show and you know i think it's beyond vocabulary
45:24meaning if the show is what he's trying to say i can't say it it's a serious thing you know
45:31and um
45:33this part is like a fastball across the plate for me like it's thrown exactly where i want it it's
45:41easy um but what's so cool about it from my point of view is it is also a character so
45:50i'm not it's not
45:52like i'm playing some version of myself that i've done before or something it's not jesse from uh before
45:59trilogy or the dad and boy there's aspects of that and there's aspects of sterling that he's like
46:05that he's like a um next you know he's a he's in a direct line with altman and link letter
46:13and like
46:14you know it's the same kind of filmmaker and he grew up you know he's about your age and and
46:20he grew
46:20up watching me and he kind of has things that i do that he likes that he wants me to
46:24do on the show
46:25yeah and i know that he knows that but we've also built lee raybon who's his own person is and
46:33hopefully like my thing about acting is like i want you to be able to smell it i want you
46:37to smell
46:37that bookstore i want you to smell lee's car i want you to um i want it to be real
46:44and lived in and that's
46:46a lifetime of studying acting you know it's um people don't like to talk about it as a craft
46:54really i guess it's more fun to talk about it as like pop culture or something but when when it's
47:00well done it's like i remember i felt like when i watched the godfather it's an example everybody's
47:05but i felt like if i went to the knicks game i might see michael corleone like that's how real
47:12he seemed to me you know and i've uh or like rocky balboa you know i felt like you go
47:18to philly you
47:19might run into rocky yeah you know he might be running down the street working out like that's how
47:23i could smell philly and um and those are my favorite kind of performances and uh
47:32and sterling is great at world building and so it's bigger than me
47:36mm-hmm and that's it's like being on a really good team you know you play better you know there's
47:42some players that like to um run up a scoring title on a losing team yeah you know i i
47:50i i that
47:50ain't me a season two is timely jones yeah and then i think i don't answer this question but at
47:56this
47:56point do you get intimidated like when another actor if you're not intimidated by tommy jones
48:02then you don't have a pulse okay uh he's been the smartest person in every room for a long time
48:12yeah yeah he knows it he's tough he's really allergic to being a phony um and i love his
48:23relationship to my profession to our profession in what way he said he's a student of writing
48:31yeah a real a real student of what makes exceptional writing versus what makes mediocre writing um
48:40he's laser focused um he's not nice and the world puts away too uh uh high of a
48:51i don't know being nice to each other when they're not telling the truth or yeah you know he's not
48:56scared
48:56to have an argument um and he's not uh i just really you know obviously i grew up on this
49:06body
49:06of work right you know just you know i was i think i was 18 or something when on some
49:12tough came out
49:13i was already a fan you know colemeyer's daughter i thought he was about everything i ever wanted to be
49:20in my life yeah um so yeah i was intimidated definitely intimidated but what's great about
49:28meeting people who are famous is you realize oh there's a reason he's so successful there's a
49:33reason he's famous he's really good at this job yeah and i love this job and he's making me better
49:38at
49:38this job so i started not caring about being intimidated i started really getting excited about
49:44the next scene that's awesome the most recent film is called the weight curious i'm always curious like
49:51why why that film you said you had a relationship with the director earlier i heard you say that was
49:57a difficult shoot and i wonder about your appetite for difficult at this point i love difficult really
50:03still oh yeah oh yes not waning you don't do a movie like the weight if you don't want you're
50:08you're covetous of a difficult shoot really yeah because you're looking for adventure you know i grew up
50:14reading about john houston and bulgart you know african queen out in the middle you know and the
50:20leeches and the thing like it all sounded so badass and fun and i i wanted to make a tough
50:27movie like
50:28that and um so i'll tell i answered the question i don't know if it's going to be interesting but
50:32i had
50:33made the good lord bird um which is a show that meant a lot to me and um i met
50:39podrick on that he was
50:40the editor of that show and he was brilliant um i couldn't believe it and um when the whole thing
50:49was over i felt he had like one of the best minds in movies that i've ever missed how come
50:56you haven't
50:56directed a movie he's like i i really want to and i said well if you ever want to direct
51:00a movie i want
51:01to be in it and funnily enough russell crowe had said the same thing to him you know and so
51:06it was really
51:07thrilling to give somebody a debut and he's not 15 you know uh he's about your age too and he
51:16just
51:16knows so much about film and editing and um uh he was just a great director and so we started
51:25we stayed in touch after it was over and we found the script and we started working on the script
51:29and
51:29we just and it took us a few years to get it made but we wanted to make a movie
51:34kind of like the
51:35sorcerer wages of fear or treasure and serial monster right yeah or um you know cool hand luke
51:40or um these kind of movies where you had um there was a toughness to them and you like left
51:47feeling
51:47like it was possible to be a good man um like there's so much stuff about toxic masculinity and
51:53like what are the positive manifestations of masculinity like what is that for the for those
51:59i don't know the plot of film you play a very capable man uh is it 1930s yes depression depression
52:05era
52:06who's separated from um his daughter and thrown in a prison camp and then it becomes an adventure film
52:11like the music you're talking about i've heard you say also about this movie you wanted to play a role
52:16like that before you got too old yeah i wondered if that was on your mind oh yeah i mean
52:21when i did
52:22training day i really thought i'd be in a lot of action movies like i just thought that was going
52:26to
52:27happen for me but i have so you know i when i was younger i thought i'd be in a
52:30lot of comedies
52:31like and i thought i thought all these things i thought everything would be different somehow
52:37i didn't in in how it is is fine interesting of course but like i wanted you know my wife
52:46is my
52:46producing partner and i was saying i was like i want to be in an action movie i want to
52:51find a great
52:52action movie and she worked really hard we got with podrick we got the script together and started
52:56working on it and working on it and trying to get it made because you know and in five minutes
53:03you know we'll be too old to be the hero in an action movie i probably already am you know
53:09um but
53:10i wanted to try to do it and i feel really proud of the movie and i'm glad we did
53:13it do you mourn the
53:14fact that in five minutes you'll be too old to play like a hero i try not to let myself
53:18think like
53:19that even though i just said that because what i try to think about is ooh prospero's coming ooh king
53:23leers on the way oh really you know it's better to get your mind you know you can't you can't
53:27think
53:28about you know i never took any pride in it until it's gone but like you know there was a
53:36time period
53:37where posters my film room college dorm rooms across america i don't know posted my pictures done i think
53:44you know that that those days are done so you could have i never was proud of it when it
53:50was happening
53:51but now like well that's cool i wish that still was but you have to kind of embrace what is
53:56you
53:56wish that they still had the post no you're making a joke you know um a little bit though you
54:01might you
54:02kind of it's cool that i i i meet those women now at my kids soccer games and they say
54:12you know i had
54:13my your picture up in my classroom and i think that we have some bond secret between us but that
54:19makes me
54:19feel good uh i have more questions but that's just the perfect place to end it okay then yeah how'd
54:28we
54:28do i do you tell me i got nervous in the middle but then it seemed to go all right
54:34what part did you
54:36get nervous that we can we take the mics off and that's what i mean let's finish
54:41you