- 3 minutes ago
With The Odyssey, lightning stuck twice for Matt Damon. Good Will Hunting is considered sui generis, without precedent. To add Christopher Nolan’s epic onto your resume almost 30 years on is rarefied air. Now, at the tail end of year spearheaded by a $1.8 billion box office and punctuated by seven separate film projects, Matt finds himself winding down. Here Damon chats with GQ’s Frazier Tharpe about the intricacies filming everything for The Odyssey in IMAX, the pressures of the Oscars, and the role that got away.
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00:00Coming off of a year like this...
00:01It's all downhill from here.
00:12Matt Damon.
00:13We don't really do this too often at GQ where we kind of like cover a cultural event when it's
00:18happening,
00:18then get to the end of the year, reflect and go...
00:21Actually, we maybe didn't cover that enough, but...
00:23The Odyssey is no ordinary blockbuster and you're not having an ordinary year, man. How's it going?
00:28Great. Just great.
00:31It's just been just special from the moment I got the phone call.
00:37And I said to Chris at the end of it, when we finished...
00:40We did premieres all over the world and we traveled with the movie and the response was just amazing.
00:49After our last event, we were in Korea and I just said, when does life work out that way?
00:54You know, when does...
00:55It's nice to be at this stage of my life to know how kind of fortunate this all was to
01:02work out the way it did.
01:03So I actually want to start at the beginning of the year though.
01:06Kick things off with The Rip.
01:08Your buddy Ben.
01:09Yeah.
01:09Artist's Equity.
01:10Quentin Tarantino wrote a...
01:12He blogged about it pretty much for Sight and Sound.
01:15And in that piece, he said that, you know, and he accused himself of being guilty of this too,
01:20that audiences are almost so familiar with you that they might like take your skills for granted,
01:25but you're really aging into an even more dynamic performer.
01:28Yeah, that is amazing coming from him, obviously.
01:32That's a...
01:33So yes, I did hear about it.
01:35Do you feel that way at all?
01:36Like, do you feel like you're getting better and reaching new heights, tapping into new reserves?
01:40I think if you talk to any actor my age, you know, any of the usual suspects, they'd probably say
01:47the same thing.
01:47I think, you know, the more you do it, if you're working with really good people,
01:52you're always improving, you're getting better, you're, you know, and then you're living more life.
01:57Your family dynamics, all of those very, your primary relationships kind of fill up your reservoir, you know?
02:04And I think there's stuff, and I've talked to other actors my age about it, you know, Ben included.
02:10Yeah.
02:11I think there's a tendency to push when you're younger a little bit, you know, to try to work yourself
02:16up into a certain, you know,
02:17and the older you get, the more available a lot of this stuff is.
02:22These very, very, very big emotions are kind of just sitting.
02:28You have experiences you can kind of tap into.
02:30Yeah.
02:30Yeah.
02:32Pretty easily.
02:33And so you can, you can really relax into the work and it can be very full without being forced.
02:37Would you say that this is the biggest year of your career?
02:40I think so.
02:41Yeah.
02:41I mean, I've never, I've never been a part of a movie like the Odyssey.
02:45That was, well, I guess Oppenheimer to an extent was a, was a, was a somewhat of a phenomenon as
02:50well.
02:50But here you're number one, number one on the call sheet.
02:52Yeah.
02:53Yeah.
02:53It was a huge, there, there was, I, I was, my workload was a lot heavier on this one.
03:00And, and, and, and everybody's was, and that was kind of the joy of it.
03:03We knew we were the first ones to ever try to do a full film in IMAX.
03:07And, and that comes with a whole host of challenges for every single department.
03:10And so to, to, to kind of all be leaning on each other.
03:14And we were all, I think, very patient with each other because we knew what was being asked of the
03:20other people, you know?
03:20So in terms of the acting department, you know, the IMAX load is two and a half minutes or three
03:25minutes.
03:25And so you, the big, heavy, emotional scenes, you couldn't, you couldn't play them all the way through, you know,
03:32you'd have to, you'd have to cut them up.
03:33And, and, and the crew was just awesome, like very patient with us.
03:37And it kind of felt like we were explorers in a way, you know, we were, we, we got to
03:41be the first ones to do it.
03:42And that was a really, that, that really bonded us, I think.
03:46At any point in your past, did you see this coming?
03:49Like when people look at the industry and the game, especially for actors specifically, they don't always see that coming.
03:55They don't always think it's going to happen in that way.
03:57Yeah. I, I, I never would have expected it, you know, and, and, um, you know, also to play a
04:03role that's so physical and, you know, at my age, um, to even have a role that's available.
04:10I don't know, on a scale like this, you know, and, and I'd always wanted to, you know, make a
04:16David Lean movie, you know, I'd always wanted to be a part of something like that.
04:20And, and, uh, and to have it come at this point in my, in my life, um, I felt incredibly
04:27lucky, not only to, to be able to do it, but also to be able to contextualize it.
04:32You know, like it, I think if I, I don't think I would have appreciated as much, it as much
04:3720 years ago.
04:39So, um, no, I just don't think I would have been able to, to understand, um, and to, and to
04:46kind of hold as much gratitude as I, as I, as I, as I am and as I did throughout
04:52the process.
04:58Now, you know, a movie like this was kind of always destined to be a smash hit.
05:02Well, you know, typically, I know you can't.
05:04There are no sure things, man. I, I don't know. I think that's where you get into trouble, you know,
05:09being like, well, this is a surefire hit.
05:11Like that's a, that's, I've heard that before, you know?
05:14Well, when did you get to a point this summer and think that, and kind of realize like, wow, this
05:19is really like a phenomenon.
05:21Like what, what sparked that realization for you?
05:23Um, I think as the reaction started coming in, but I, I felt it when I saw it, there is
05:28that thing that can happen where you go, I, you know, you make a movie and, and you feel like
05:33it's really good and it just doesn't connect.
05:35And there's just nothing you can do about that. You know what I mean? And, and you kind of stand
05:40by the work and go, man, I, I, I'm, I'm happy with, I feel like we did our job on
05:46that one, but it, it just didn't quite, uh, connect for an audience.
05:49And the first thing is, I mean, I, you know, Chris, the most nervous he is, uh, in the entire
05:55process from, from the very beginning to the very end is, is like the eve of the film coming out.
06:01Really?
06:01Yeah. He's genuinely nervous. I mean, it's just, that really is the moment. And were you with him on the,
06:07the, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and he, it really, you know, he, he talks openly about it because it's that,
06:13that is, that is the moment that you've kind of put it out into the world and you have to
06:17live with the reaction of the world. It's, it's ultimately the audience decides, you know, and, and, uh, you know,
06:23it's completely out of your control and, and, uh, you know, and a lot goes into these things.
06:29And so, and so that's a really nerve wracking moment. So I think once it opened and, and, and the
06:34responses were what they were, I think I felt like, okay, we're going to, we're going to be okay.
06:39Yeah. Yeah. Because it was, obviously it was a big bet in the sense that it was a big budget.
06:43Yeah. Right. And so those numbers, I'm not used to playing in that arena, you know, I mean, the numbers
06:50of that, that movies have to get to, to just to break even at that level are just, are just
06:56so beyond kind of the, you know, the movies that I'm known for, you know,
07:01like you've done a few, a few of them, but the Martian, which I think is the biggest movie that
07:06I've ever kind of headlined.
07:08I think the Odyssey is almost made like three times what that made, you know what I mean? And that
07:14was a, that was a real hit for, for me, but there's this other league of these kinds of movies
07:20that are in the billions that just, I've just never.
07:22We need to cross 1.5 billion to sleep in.
07:26Right. It's like, what? It was great to have it be that successful, but also great given the, I just
07:34felt like every single stage of the movie was an everybody's contribution.
07:39Like every, I mean, thousands of people just really gave everything they had.
07:44Throughout the course of the year, I've heard you kind of describe the film as like saying that the hardest
07:48day on any other set was like every day working on the Odyssey.
07:52But I wondered about that from an acting perspective, like what was the toughest scene or most exciting scene for
07:57you to like really dig into just as an actor?
08:00A character like that and a role like that is every single day I, I was paired with an unbelievable
08:06scene partner.
08:07You know, the actors that I got to work with were so good and the relationships were all very specific
08:12and, and written that way.
08:14Chris is a great writer and it was very clear what the dynamics between all of these characters were, but
08:20you know, one day I'd be, I'd be working with Annie, you know, and then one, the next day I'd
08:24be working with Himesh, you know, and it's, it's going, it's following this character through all these different stages of
08:31his life and, and, and, and people who, who are close to him.
08:35And when you're working with a great actor, they're so good that they're good enough for both of you.
08:39Yeah.
08:39And it's almost like this wave comes and you just, just stand up on your board, you know, and just
08:47go, yeah, and ride it.
08:48And Samantha Morton, who literally, it's like, she just picks you up and shoulder carries you, you know, what a
08:54scene.
08:54Yeah, no, and, and, and, and that's a really hard thing to do.
08:57I don't, you know, for people who aren't in the business, it's very hard to come in and do really
09:03intense things in a very short timeframe.
09:05Yeah.
09:06You know, those, Sam shot for, you know, that was under a week of shooting.
09:09That was, you know, each day being incredibly intense.
09:12Yeah.
09:13You know, a lot of dialogue, big scenes.
09:16And, and that was what was so incredible about these actors who would, who would come in there.
09:21They're under a lot of pressure.
09:22Nobody says that, but we, we all know the deal, you know, this is, these are, these are, you know,
09:27critical scenes and, and they just, everybody just came in and killed it.
09:31And it was, it just got more and more exciting as we were going kind of, kind of, you know,
09:36rolling through the schedule and, and, and, and finishing chapters and finishing these, you know.
09:41Very episodic.
09:42It's very episodic.
09:43And, you know, you're kind of looking around going, I think that went really well.
09:46Like, all right, what's next?
09:48You know, we're, okay, we're going to Iceland or we're going, oh, we've got this sequence next.
09:52And my question for Chris was always, um, and I asked him kind of probably once or twice a month,
09:59like, is there any day that you wish you could have back yet?
10:01Interesting.
10:02And he kept saying, no, nope, nope.
10:04I, you know, I've got everything, I've got everything I need.
10:07I've got everything I need.
10:08And, and that was consistent through the, through the film.
10:11He doesn't do reshoots.
10:12He never has.
10:13Really?
10:13Yeah.
10:14Um, so he's, yeah, he, and he's very, very intentional about what he's going to get and what he needs.
10:20And so, so he's a great person to check in with because he's really on top of everything.
10:25For sure.
10:25I'm glad you shouted out Samantha Morton because I don't know if you saw, she said, um, the phone hasn't
10:30been ringing that much since the movie drop.
10:31But if I were in charge, man, I'd be calling her to, to start in something immediately.
10:36She kind of steals that sequence.
10:37I agree.
10:37She's incredible.
10:38She's always been incredible.
10:39I mean, you know, minority report.
10:41Yeah.
10:42And she's, she's been great for, we almost, we had a near miss, uh, working together in 2003 and I
10:50got to know her then.
10:51And, um, in a movie with Heath Ledger and, and, uh, I just, I just think the world of her
10:56as an actress and, and, and I, and I was excited.
10:58Like when we did the scene, I, I was like, this is, this one's going to really work.
11:03Like she's fantastic.
11:04And it's lodged her back in the minds of people who are making those decisions because, you know, and, and
11:10put her at the front.
11:17So I actually got to speak to, uh, Chris before we sat down today, Chris was saying, and it was
11:24funny that he pointed this out because it happened to me before we spoke when I was rewatching it.
11:28That, um, the scene between you and Anne, uh, when your first scene coming back to Ithaca, when you're talking
11:36to her, he said for him, that's like the whole reason to make the movie.
11:40Yeah.
11:41That scene has to, has to land.
11:43If that lands, then the movie works.
11:44Yeah.
11:45That's what Chris is saying.
11:45And, and that also means setting them up as a young couple, you know, before he leaves that it means,
11:50you know, there's a lot of kind of engineering that goes into getting to a scene like that.
11:55And then you have to kind of execute it.
11:57And, um, and so that was the one that I spent the most time.
12:01I spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about that one.
12:04Well, Chris said a really good note too about how, um, he said, you know, another actor or other actors
12:09might try to communicate like the passage of time and, and weariness through like alcoholism or like just being tired.
12:17These like external kind of factors.
12:19You know, at that point, the audience has been on the journey with you.
12:22Right.
12:22And, uh, and it's, and it's been a hell of a, hell of a journey, you know, so, so you
12:28don't have to tell them that they are, they're with you that they're, and we were tired.
12:33Yeah.
12:33You know, we were, that scene I shot with Samantha, oddly, we had come from, we'd come from Iceland, but
12:40we were shooting nights and we came to Scotland and I had it happen two or three times on this
12:46movie where I just didn't sleep.
12:48Really?
12:49I was tired and I went to bed and, and I'm sure everyone's had that feeling where you've got to
12:54get up the next day and you have something that you have to do and you can't fall asleep and
12:57you're kind of kicking the blanket around and you're staring at the ceiling.
13:00And by the time I got to work to do the scene with Sam, I hadn't slept in, you know,
13:0524 hours.
13:05And by the end of the day, it was 36 or whatever.
13:08And I remember thinking the great thing about this character is he probably didn't sleep last night.
13:13You know, you don't worry about it.
13:15Like he's like, the weariness was very real.
13:19For a lot of the, for a lot of the movie, um, for, you know, we were all tired.
13:23I was just lucky that I was playing a character who was allowed to be, you know, a little spent.
13:29There's a, there's an almost like metatextual nature to the movie, right?
13:32Like Odysseus is on this journey away from his family, you're on the journey away from your family.
13:38How did that dynamic of being away from the nest kind of factor into your performance?
13:44It's just all, it's all in there, you know, because it's the, it's, it's what I'm actually feeling, you know,
13:48and, um, again, which is helpful for the movie.
13:50Luckily, they're huge Chris Nolan fans, you know, and they knew that it was, uh, this incredible role in this
13:58incredible epic.
13:59And so they were really supportive and, you know, and it was, it was a sacrifice for them and they,
14:05they, they were awesome about it.
14:07Ben actually did a interview with one of our colleagues earlier this month.
14:12And he was saying that he's actually turned down jobs that like aren't local just because he's so prioritized on
14:18family.
14:19Yeah.
14:19He really wanted to take on the CEO role at, at, uh, artist equity because, uh, it would keep him,
14:26it would keep him home.
14:27So when he directs, he's normally directing something like, for instance, animals, that was all shot in LA.
14:31Yeah.
14:31Yeah.
14:32So when we started the company, we had that conversation and, you know, he's got, you know,
14:36uh, you know, uh, joint custody, right.
14:40And which means he's, he gets his, you know, to be with the kids half the time.
14:44And he said, if I go to Estonia and do a movie, he goes, it's not like I get that
14:47time back.
14:48You know what I mean?
14:49I've been incredibly lucky because I had a, you know, a wife who, who really, really made it work.
14:55And, and for a large parts of our lives, we were on the road and we always went as a
15:01family.
15:01And we said, home is the family being together, no matter where we are.
15:06And, uh, and then, and that allowed me to do a lot of things that I otherwise just wouldn't have
15:11been able to do.
15:12I wouldn't have, I, I never could have just left and, and, you know, come back six months later, you
15:17know, that, that just, that just wouldn't work for, for our family.
15:22Yeah.
15:23Coming off of a year like this, um, with the movie.
15:27It's all downhill from here.
15:28Well, that's what, has it changed in any way how you're looking at like this?
15:33Do you feel like you're in like a new phase of your career and has this changed?
15:36Are you, are you looking at that?
15:37I felt that way when I did air with Ben, it was such a joyful experience and we had so
15:44much fun and we really loved the movie we made.
15:46And we kind of had this discussion really about, I, I don't want to do it unless it's, unless it's
15:53joyful and unless it's, um, unless it's really right for, for my life.
15:58So much of like being a young actor is, you know, you're afraid it's going to go away.
16:02You're very much still in touch with that feeling of being unemployed.
16:06And so when Ben and I got famous, like we both, you know, really worked, buried ourselves in work.
16:13We really ran at it.
16:15And, and partly because people are suddenly offering you things and you can't imagine, you know, turning anything down.
16:21Right.
16:21It's like, it just seems that counter to everything you've been trying so hard to do for, for your, your
16:27entire life.
16:27Well, I will say though, that you've always seemed to have like a really cool, uh, like calculus about what
16:33roles you pick and what's right for you and what seems dope in a way that not everybody does, especially
16:39when all those offers are coming in.
16:40I just, I really go by director.
16:42That's really the, um, I mean, screenplay is obviously very important and I'm a writer also.
16:47And, and also I love to work.
16:48I do actually enjoy it.
16:50And I had this conversation with Steven Soderbergh recently.
16:53His approach has always just been, it's like a lunch pail approach.
16:55He is always in some stage of production and working on something and he does small movies and big movies.
17:01And there's not a lot of, you know, strategizing around it.
17:04It's kind of like, what, what story do I want to tell and how do I want to tell it?
17:07And if it's interesting to him, he'll do it.
17:09And, and, and I've kind of approached my career in a, I think in a similar way where it's not,
17:13I'm not sitting there kind of strategizing about, you know, well, this would be a good idea because of, you
17:19know, some external thing.
17:20It's really, if I think this has a chance to be great, you know, no matter what it is, no
17:25matter how big the role is, no matter, you know, then I, then I want to be a part of
17:28it.
17:36Was there ever a point in your career where you felt a little cold?
17:40Like you felt like the phones weren't ringing?
17:41Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
17:43Because if, if I'm looking at your filmography, I'm not really seeing that.
17:45I'm seeing like a street.
17:47There was, the first time was after, was before The Bourne Identity came out.
17:51And, and, and, uh, early 2000s?
17:54Yeah, because I had done, uh, The Legend of Bagger Vance with Will and Charlize, and that movie didn't do
18:00well.
18:01And Will was, you know, as he is now, you know, the biggest star.
18:05And so it's like, it's not Will's fault.
18:09So, and then I did All the Pretty Horses with Billy Bob.
18:13Yeah.
18:13And, uh, and that, that was a whole fraught experience.
18:17There were different ideas between the studio and between Billy Bob, what, what the movie should be.
18:22And, you know, it ended up kind of getting cut in a way that, that wasn't to Billy's liking and,
18:27and, uh, and it didn't do well.
18:30And so I had had these misses.
18:32And so there, there, there was this stretch where the phone just didn't ring.
18:36Really?
18:36Yeah, it was, the silence was, I mean, it was, oh, okay.
18:40It was a real kind of rose-colored lenses coming off and going, I get it.
18:43What are you doing during that stretch?
18:44Are you freaking out?
18:45Are you riding the wave?
18:47Well, the other thing was that the, the, um, the Bourne identity was delayed, you know, something like a year.
18:54And so the, the word was, that's going to be a stinker.
18:57Oh, wow.
18:57And so.
18:58Crazy to say no.
19:00Yeah.
19:00And so, uh, but in that time I went right from Bourne to, I did Ocean's Eleven.
19:06And it was right after that, there was this whole period of time where nobody, nobody was calling, except for
19:12Steven Soderbergh, who called, um, and offered me the movie The Informant.
19:16And, um, and I was so confused.
19:19He goes, I've got this thing and, and it's, you know, it's this book.
19:22And I, and, and I asked him, are you asking me to write it?
19:25Because I think, I couldn't imagine he was asking me to be in it because nobody else was calling.
19:29So I thought it was a writing job.
19:31And he goes, what?
19:32No, Scott Burns is writing it.
19:34No, I want you to be the lead.
19:35And I, and I've never forgotten that.
19:37Like he, he just paid no attention to, you know, what everyone else was kind of saying.
19:42And, and, uh, and then the, the Bourne Identity came out and, and it was a big hit.
19:47And it was like literally the Monday after the movie opened, it was like the phone started right now.
19:52You have like the entourage already goal moment.
19:55Yeah.
19:55Yeah.
19:56Um, which is good to know.
19:58It's not personal.
19:59It's business.
20:00You know what I mean?
20:00And, and, um, people can't really go out of their way to help you.
20:04You know, it's really a cold calculus that kind of determines whether or not you're on
20:08the list or off the list.
20:10So there's this list, right?
20:11And, and you never know who's on the list and the list can be different for different
20:16studios, who they'll green light a movie with.
20:18Really?
20:18Yeah.
20:19And I, that's not like an urban legend.
20:21Like there's a, there's a very, very frank conversations between agents and, and studio
20:26people going like, I can't, I can't green light the movie with X, but I can with Y.
20:31And I, you know, and it, and that list is always changing.
20:34Yeah.
20:35And, and I know that sometimes I'm on it and sometimes I'm not, you know what I mean?
20:39And I just have to remember it's not personal.
20:41Yeah.
20:41And you can just kind of feel it if you're on, if you're on the list or not, you know?
20:44Is it just like a, it's a, it's a, it's a frequency, a phone call.
20:47Yeah.
20:47Yeah.
20:48And, and of quality of projects, you know, um, and I'm sure I've, I've worked my way off
20:55that list a number of times.
20:57I've had some movies that didn't work.
20:58And then, you know, you're kind of, you know, you got to pay, pay attention.
21:03I remember, uh, in the, you know, maybe 2012 or 13 or 2014 ish, maybe, uh, Patrick saying
21:11to me, Patrick's been my agent for 35 years.
21:14And, and he said, uh, I was taking a lot of supporting roles just because again, I'm not
21:21strategizing at all.
21:22I'm just like, well, true grit.
21:23I want to work with the Coen brothers.
21:24Great.
21:24Great role.
21:25Fun movie.
21:26I, I'm, you know, I think like Monuments Men is around that.
21:29Monuments Men.
21:29Sure.
21:30Great.
21:30You know?
21:31And so there was this string of movies like that.
21:33And, um, Patrick called me and he said, you know, you got to like kind of heads up for
21:38a second.
21:38And I'm like, like what?
21:40And he's like, you'll become a supporting actor if you, if you, you know, you gotta,
21:45we gotta, we gotta think about this next one.
21:47We gotta, we gotta.
21:47And then what happened to come along was the Martian.
21:50Wow.
21:50Um, so, so that, that worked.
21:53Yeah.
21:53You know what I mean?
21:53To say the least.
21:54But that's about as much strategizing as we've ever done.
21:58Um.
21:59It's funny that he, he, he pointed it out to you like, Hey man, just.
22:02Yeah.
22:02And I think Interstellar was in there too.
22:04Like, you know, again, I'm so happy that I'm in that movie.
22:07I love the role, even though it's a tiny part.
22:09I love, I love that part.
22:10No small parts.
22:11There are no small parts.
22:12I don't know if I told you that story when Chris offered me, I, we hadn't worked together
22:16and he offered me the part in Interstellar.
22:18And he said, do you know that saying, there are no small, small parts.
22:21There are only small actors.
22:22And I go, yeah.
22:22And he goes, this is a small part.
22:26But I, I think he undersold it because it's a, it's a really kind of pivotal role.
22:30And, and I had a ball doing it.
22:31Is it true that he offered you Harvey Dent though before for Dark Knight?
22:35Is that a.
22:36Yeah, I was doing, uh, I think I was on a Bourne movie or doing, or, or I think I
22:40was about
22:40to go do Green Zone with Paul Greengrass.
22:42Oh man.
22:43That looked crazy.
22:44That and, uh, Milk.
22:47Um.
22:47Oh wow.
22:47Gus's movie.
22:48I was supposed to play the Dan White part.
22:50Wow.
22:51And I was really excited about it.
22:53And I'd spoken to Sean and I, I, I'd started the research.
22:56I'd been watching the documentaries about him and, and then Sean's schedule changed.
23:00And, uh, and the movie had to push three months, which meant that it was going to interfere,
23:05conflict with the movie I was going to do with Paul.
23:08Yeah.
23:08So I had to bow out and, um, which, which, and I just love that script so much.
23:13And, and, and I, and I love Gus obviously.
23:15And so, um, so that was a bummer.
23:17But having said that they got Josh Brolin and Josh is absolutely brilliant in the movie.
23:22And that helped a lot, I think, with this feeling that I have that I do believe that the right
23:28actor gets the part.
23:29Okay.
23:29The things that I've passed on or the things that I've been beaten out for, I kind of have to
23:34look at them and go.
23:36To that point though, is there one that you passed on that you maybe just, all right, maybe, maybe I
23:42shouldn't have, maybe I should have done that.
23:44I never like to say that because I, I, it's like, I don't want to live with the regret, but
23:49I can tell you, uh, that, that I passed on Ted.
23:54And I was doing true grit and I've never had this experience where I laughed so hard reading a script.
24:01Yeah.
24:02I literally took it to dinner and was reading parts of it out to my friends at dinner.
24:07And then I just got too clever by half.
24:09I don't know what I was thinking.
24:11I was like, well, maybe the teddy bears have actually the best part.
24:14And I don't know what the fuck I was thinking.
24:15So I just overthought it and I just talked myself out of it.
24:18And, and more because, you know, it was shot in Boston, it would have been a chance for me to
24:22be home.
24:23And my father's passed away now.
24:25And I look back and I go, man, I, that would have been, you know, six months back, you know,
24:30so I, you know, but again, the right actor got the part.
24:34It's great.
24:35Very true.
24:35Mark's great.
24:36And the movie's great.
24:38And I wouldn't have made it any better.
24:39Comedy is one of your most underrated bags though.
24:41You know, all the way back to what's the Greg Kinnear stuck on you.
24:45Yeah.
24:45Yeah.
24:46I, they're really hard to do, you know?
24:48They're really hard to do.
24:50And, and I don't read a lot.
24:51I don't think people think of me for comedies a lot.
24:53Interesting.
24:54I love them and I love watching them and I love doing them if I can get my hands on
24:57one.
24:58Um, but they're, they're, they're few and far between.
25:00Yeah.
25:01Um, I think because they don't travel well, they're harder to get made.
25:05Yeah.
25:05Um, because you really have to, um, get all your money back in America, you know, comedy is so cultural.
25:16Well, one of my favorite things about, um, your filmography, I don't know if you agree, but I love when
25:21a director kind of, you have this like trustworthiness with the audience.
25:26And I love when a director uses that against the audience and kind of doing the rip.
25:31Yeah.
25:32Um, Soderbergh kind of did it in the informant.
25:34Yeah.
25:34The departed.
25:35Yeah.
25:35That's a huge one.
25:36You know?
25:36Yeah.
25:37Um, interstellar.
25:38Yeah, for sure.
25:40Um, and Anthony, I think was the first with talented Mr. Ripley.
25:43Of course.
25:43Yeah.
25:43And he talked openly about it.
25:45A lot of these directors do.
25:46They, they go, okay, well, you know, they want to use whatever it is that you have to offer in
25:53a, in a new way and a fun way and in an unexpected way.
25:56And, and, um, um, and so that's been great.
25:59Some of, some of those, you know, roles are just the best roles that I've ever had a chance to
26:03play.
26:03Really interesting, complex people.
26:05And you're the king of, like, having great set stories.
26:08So, um, departed is actually turning 20 this year.
26:11So I have to ask you if you remember anything about that time specifically.
26:14I think that might have been my first, my first R-rated movie actually.
26:18Oh, really?
26:18Oh, really?
26:19Yeah.
26:19Snuck in to see that.
26:20Oh, that's cool.
26:21The story that I tell, that I, that I like to tell, and I've told it before is, is about
26:25Jack Nicholson.
26:26It was really instructive for me as an actor.
26:29There was a scene that was, um, one eighth of a page.
26:32Yeah, yeah.
26:33And it said, Costello, uh, uh, executes a man kneeling in the marshes.
26:39Most busy actors would look at that on the call sheet and be like, yeah, it's one eighth of a
26:43page.
26:44It's one shot.
26:44Jack looked at it, and he has this whole thing.
26:48He goes, I'm never going to add money to this, to the budget.
26:51Because I come from the Roger Corman school.
26:54Great impression by the way.
26:55And he's like, so I know Marty's going to do one shot, so here's what I do.
27:01I make it a woman.
27:03Now, you haven't seen that before.
27:06Executing a woman in the marshes.
27:08It's sinister.
27:09And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty bad.
27:11And then what I did, I put Ray in the scene with me.
27:14So Ray Winston plays his right hand.
27:16Yep.
27:17And he goes, now Ray's here with me in the scene.
27:19And he goes, and I shoot her.
27:21He goes, and you could get out there.
27:23That's just as it is in the script.
27:24But if you leave the camera rolling, I say, geez, she fell funny.
27:33And he goes, now that's a very sinister line.
27:36Because it means that I've done this before.
27:38And there's a way that people fall when you shoot them in the back of the head.
27:42And I go, yeah, that's pretty fucked up.
27:43But he goes, and you could end the scene there.
27:46But if you keep the camera rolling, Ray steps forward and reveals that he's holding an axe.
27:52So that's what he shot.
27:54And then Marty, when he cut it, had so many options, right?
27:59There's so much optionality with that.
28:00Yeah.
28:01He's got two cameras, so he can cut in between.
28:03He can cut this up any way he wants.
28:05And the way he did it, if I remember, is he kills her.
28:07He says, geez, she fell funny.
28:09And I think then Ray says, Francis, you really ought to see somebody.
28:13Yeah.
28:13And so it was a great lesson for me of an actor really grinding on these moments.
28:22Keeping the gears turning.
28:23Keeping the gears turning and never just being like, you know, I got four pages to do today.
28:28That's an eighth of a page.
28:29It's like, no, what can I do with that that is interesting, that's different?
28:34And give the director some of that optionality.
28:37What about when you actually shared any scenes with him?
28:40I shot a scene in a movie theater with him.
28:43And what I remember, because Jack was working with an earwig.
28:47And I remember what struck me was that Marty, it was just the three of us, Marty, before the crew
28:53came in to watch, and we were just rehearsing.
28:56And Marty goes, let's run this and kind of see how we think it's going to go.
29:00And Jack took the earpiece out.
29:02And we rehearsed the scene a few times, and Jack was letter perfect with his dialogue.
29:07And so Marty went to, you know, get the crew and, you know, call it.
29:10And as people were kind of coming in, I said, hey, man, what's the deal with the earwig?
29:15I'm like, you obviously know all your lines.
29:17You're writing stuff.
29:18Like, what?
29:19And it was really interesting, because he said, no, he goes, that feeling, he goes, you know, the older you
29:24get, the harder it is to remember your lines.
29:26And that feeling of going up on a line, that panic, that surge of adrenaline that you get, he goes,
29:32it just makes me so uncomfortable.
29:34He goes, so it's almost like a, it's like a, you know.
29:38Like a failsafe or something.
29:38It's a failsafe.
29:39And if he knows it's there, his body stayed in that relaxed state.
29:44And so it was really interesting.
29:45That's sick.
29:46Because, you know, people might think it was, it was like laziness.
29:49It was the opposite.
29:50He was in, he was a grinder.
29:52He worked really, really hard.
29:53It was, it was more about just protecting himself from that kind of surge of, oh, shit, I forgot my
29:59line.
29:59Do you know that people, that's like a controversial ending that people still debate to this day?
30:04The last shot with the rat.
30:05With the rat.
30:05People are anti-rat for some reason.
30:07Well, I remember as Monaghan wrote it, it was, he was in a, he was in kind of a, you
30:12know, a brownstone on like Beacon Street.
30:15Yeah, yeah.
30:16Where a rat might make more sense than in a, than in a kind of glass and steel condo.
30:21So I think maybe that, that rubbed people the wrong way.
30:24But that was always the last little bit.
30:25I love the rat.
30:26I'm pro rat.
30:26You're pro rat.
30:27I'm pro rat.
30:28When that film rolled around to the Oscars, and obviously, you know, famously Nets, Marty is his long-awaited Best
30:33Director Oscar.
30:35Did you feel a way that you didn't get nominated for that?
30:36No, no, no, no, no, no.
30:38I, I, I think everybody was really focused on Marty.
30:41Yeah.
30:41And I remember I was shooting second unit for the Bourne Ultimatum during that Oscars.
30:48And so I didn't go.
30:50Okay.
30:50Isabella would have been like eight months old.
30:52So I had a, I had an infant.
30:53Wow.
30:53And so I, I shot the second unit and then I came down to Miami and Lucy and I were
30:57laying in bed watching it and so nervous for Marty.
31:02And then when he won, I was jumping up and down in the bedroom and I remember being really excited.
31:05And then the next category was Best Picture.
31:08Yeah.
31:08And the departed won.
31:09Yeah.
31:09Yeah.
31:10And I realized in that moment, I hadn't, I hadn't even considered that that could happen.
31:14Yeah.
31:14And I turned to Lucy and I was like, shit, we should be there.
31:19And then I was like, the next weeks I got all these calls from like all the cast and like
31:23the studio.
31:24They're like, wait, Hey man, where were you, man?
31:25At the after party.
31:26I was like, I was in, I, I, I didn't think this through guys.
31:28I totally blew it.
31:29The next time that that happened was in a, was on Oppenheimer.
31:33We had this whole scary thing happen, um, where my wife had a brain aneurysm and totally fine.
31:41Thank God we had this brain surgery the week before the, the, the Oscars.
31:46And, um, it was the first night she, she felt good enough to kind of get up and had her
31:51energy back.
31:52Yeah.
31:52And she kind of surprised me and like got a dress and she, and we went out to the, to
31:57the after party, uh, which was amazing.
32:00Cause she remembered that like the last time it happened, I didn't, I didn't do it, you know?
32:04And she was like, I want you to, this time we're going out, this time we're going out.
32:08And it was like pretty fucking heroic of her to do that.
32:10And, uh, yeah, really meaningful.
32:12It's crazy.
32:13Cause I feel like you needed, you cut, you should have got the supporting nod for that too.
32:17Like it's, you have such a, a seminal Oscar story coming in with the, uh, Good Will Hunting win.
32:23And then since it's been kind of like here and there, obviously the talent's been there.
32:28The level's been there.
32:29You know, it's not something you can control.
32:31It's just something you, you, you just, you gotta just do the work and just, and that's gotta be the
32:37reward.
32:37You know what I mean?
32:38You know, in some parts it's like, I don't, I don't even want them to do awards because it's like,
32:44then if you don't win, do you feel bad about something that was like really positive?
32:49Like otherwise great experience.
32:50Don't turn this into something bad.
32:52It's a tricky one.
32:53And, and, and I don't think that people genuinely, I always think about old movies when I look at them
32:58and I'm, you know, it says so-and-so won an Oscar, so-and-so didn't.
33:01And, and you go, I don't, you know, you're judging it in a totally different way.
33:04Like it's not attached to that anymore when you're, when you're, you know, I think the real way they should
33:09do them really is 20 or 25 years later.
33:13Like when everybody sat with it.
33:14You didn't, you'll have a really good idea of which movies really endured and really still mattered to you.
33:21There are a lot that, you know, maybe got that look that we're not talking about.
33:25There can be hype in the moment.
33:26It can be, it can feel, it can be a zeitgeist thing, but it doesn't kind of hold up.
33:30And the goal for me is to make as many of those movies that are around 20 years later.
33:35Yeah.
33:35You know, that's a cool thing.
33:36Like, you know, people come up with about Good Will Hunting and, you know, they're, I realized they weren't born
33:42when the movie came out.
33:44Crazy.
33:44Which is like me going up to somebody who made a movie in 1950.
33:48Yeah.
33:48You know, it's the same thing and, and, and it's just very cool for Ben and me to, um, to
33:54have a new generation of people actually see it.
33:56You know, that's, that's a really cool thing.
33:59And I always have these fun conversations with these like students who are talking like, you weren't born, you were
34:03born 10 years after that movie came out.
34:06And they go, no, I really love that movie.
34:07And it still holds up.
34:08It's still relatable.
34:09Yeah.
34:09And it feels still relatable.
34:10That, that, that feels great.
34:11Yeah.
34:12Are you going to hit the campaign trail for the Odyssey?
34:15I don't know what that means.
34:16You know what I mean?
34:17Like, I don't, I live in Brooklyn.
34:20If the trail is in that area.
34:24Yeah.
34:25Um, I, I will say I really, the technical side of this movie, you know, I think of someone like
34:32Willie Burton, our sound guy.
34:33Yep.
34:34Who's in his eighties and he is, he is a legend in the business.
34:39And I did not loop a line in this movie.
34:42Yeah.
34:42Which is incredible.
34:43And I did not loop a line in Oppenheimer, which is incredible.
34:46Like Willie and Doug, his boom operator are so good.
34:51Like Willie, every scene on the ship, Willie is down below in the hold mixing like in, in storms.
34:59And I mean, he's just like the jet skis.
35:02And the fact that he's salvages all of that dialogue, the production dialogue is, is, is nothing short of amazing.
35:09And the technical achievement of, of, of our heads of department and their teams were, were, were really special.
35:16I just hope that people realize that, realize what, what it took to, to, to, to do what they did.
35:21And, um, because from a technical standpoint, I just, you know, I hope they all get their flowers.
35:26Yeah.
35:33You brought up Good Will Hunting.
35:35Um, when you think back to you and Ben at that time and the spirit of kind of like just
35:39doing it yourself, when you look at the landscape now,
35:41do you see anybody that's coming up that kind of embodies Ben at that time?
35:45I think, I, yeah, I think there's a lot of young filmmakers and, and, and our road was paved, you
35:50know, kind of first by Sylvester Stallone, right?
35:53Who did the most incredible thing with Rocky that, that was, have you seen that?
35:57No, I'm dying to see it because Pete fairly directed it and he's a buddy of mine and, and I
36:01love him and I can't wait to see it.
36:03There, there was a precedent.
36:04He basically established a precedent and then Chaz Palminteri, um, with a Bronx tale and, um, but it was at
36:11a time when it was like Quentin and Spike and these, these young upstarts were, were, were, were, were, these
36:17new voices were coming and it felt, you know, I've talked, talked to John Leguizamo about it, you know,
36:22Mambo mouth like that. Oh, that's all right in the, in the time in which we started writing and we
36:28started writing because we believed that it could happen.
36:31And we believed that because we were looking around and we were seeing other people, these various kind of disparate
36:37places, all, all doing it.
36:39And that gave us the hope that we could do it too. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, so I think this
36:43next generation now has those examples and our examples and some people to come after.
36:47And so there, it feels much more like a DIY time. Right. The technical, technical barrier for entry is lower
36:54too. Yeah. Right. And, and the ubiquity of, of these phones that kids are growing up with.
37:00So they're, they're growing up thinking in shots. Yeah. They have a real facility for, for that, for kind of
37:04film grammar. And, and, um, so I'm expecting like really great things from this kind of next wave of, of
37:10young directors.
37:11Is there anybody out there, not necessarily young or upcoming, but just, you know, you have such a laundry list
37:16of, um, great directors that you've already worked with and built these rapports with. Is there anybody out there on
37:21the list that you haven't, that you want to.
37:23Tons and tons and tons of people on the list. Yeah.
37:25Tons of people on the list. Too many to name, you know, obviously there's, you know, PTA and Quentin and
37:30people like right at the, you know, obvious people at the top of the list.
37:33And then there are people like, like Nicole Holif Center, who, um, I love her films. She makes little films.
37:38They're excellent. And, you know, we wrote, um, the last duel with her and I just, I love her stuff.
37:43And there's no shortage of great people.
37:45Danny. Oh man. Yeah.
37:47Well, to my earlier question, coming off a year like this, do you want to take a breather or are
37:53you excited to get back out there and make?
37:55I didn't think I was going to work. And then I, and then the Daniels called me and they had
37:59this project that was so out there. And so it was such a Daniels movie that, and it's so different
38:03from anything I've ever been able to do that. I, that I, that I couldn't pass it up. And I
38:08just love those guys so much. They're really good people. And this movie is like a cosmic love bomb for
38:13the world. So it felt like the right place to put my, my energy, but, um, I'm, we're almost done
38:18shooting it. And, and, uh, and yeah, I'm going to take a long, long time off.
38:22Do you have, like, we talked about Jack earlier. Do you have any kind of goats that you model, like
38:27a late career stage off of?
38:29I haven't really looked at it from the outside and thought about it in those terms. Um, you know, we
38:33have the studio now with Artist Equity and, you know, again, it's just, I feel like we're just going to
38:37do, do this, do stuff we really want to do. It's a very time consuming job. And if you're not
38:42a hundred percent in, it's just not worth doing.
38:44Yeah. Um, you have to really, you have to really let it take over your life. I think that was
38:49one of the joys of the Odyssey was, um, it really,
38:53it dominated our lives. Yeah. And you just like relinquished that control. Completely. Yeah.
38:58There was a funny thing that happened on the Odyssey. I'll tell you a funny story, which was, um, when
39:01we were in Scotland, I was with my kids and we're eating dinner.
39:06It was in this tiny hotel in this tiny town. And so there was one little dining room, which had
39:11like, you know, 10 little tables in it.
39:12Mm hmm. And the crew had watched dailies. And so they were kind of shuffling in and it was dinnertime
39:19and I was already eating with my kids and I had, you know, jeans and a flannel shirt and a
39:24baseball hat on.
39:26And, uh, Chris came in and he walked by a table and I said, Hey, Chris. And he turned and
39:33he goes, Oh, Hey Matt. He goes, I didn't recognize you with the beard.
39:43Chris doesn't say stupid things. It was definitely the stupidest thing he's ever said is we'd been next to each
39:49other for six months.
39:51You're the whole reason I have this beard. He had just walked out of dailies watching, you know, closeups of
39:55me, I'm sure with his giant beard.
39:57And I looked at him and he immediately realized what he'd said. And he just kind of looked at his
40:02shoes and, and, and then he, and then he just kind of looked up like, can we just agree that
40:09this never happened?
40:10And he kind of shuffled off and my kids go, Dad, does Chris Nolan not know who you are?
40:16And I was like, no guys, he's just exhausted. Like he was that tired. He just, he hadn't seen me
40:22out of wardrobe in a while. You know what I mean?
40:24But it was just his, he just, we were so tired by the end of that movie.
40:28That's hilarious.
40:29Um, but it was really, it was really funny.
40:31Do you feel like even not just from a unit starring role standpoint, but even just running AE, right?
40:35Do you feel like this superlative year has kind of given you like a blank check almost to try to
40:40get some, maybe get some projects off that would have been harder sells?
40:43It's tough. I find that the, the, the calculus on those things doesn't change as much as you would hope.
40:49Right.
40:49You know, um, I always thought you need that. There's very little leverage. People are very, you know, nervous about
40:55what'll work, what'll work and what won't.
40:57And, um, Ben and I don't, you know, we can make as compelling an argument as we can, but that,
41:03that it's ultimately, they are going to have to make the decision.
41:06They are going to have to put this money on the line. And, um, and those are very hard calls.
41:11Again, it's not in your control.
41:12You can still, the work is the only thing you can kind of be responsible for. And if you can
41:16feel good about that, then I can live with that. You know, I had another movie, uh, the Tom McCarthy
41:21movie, Stillwater.
41:22Yep.
41:23And I think that's probably the best I've ever been in a movie.
41:26Really?
41:26Yeah. And, and the movie just didn't land with people. And I, you know, maybe it was because it felt
41:31like a hybrid or I don't know what, what it was. Um, but I'm really proud of the work and
41:36that's all you can do.
41:37You know what I mean? You just, um, and, and I can live with that feeling. What I can't live
41:42with is the feeling of I took a movie for the wrong reasons. That's true regret.
41:46Yeah.
41:46You know, that's, that's, that's not something I want.
41:49I'll wrap it up by, um, circling back to the beginning with that Tarantino piece. He also said that you
41:55and Ben are better together.
41:57And he loves seeing you guys together. And I was thinking back to something.
42:00Well, he should write us a movie.
42:02There we go. There we go.
42:03That would be, we would be very happy if he did that.
42:05Well, cause Ben has this thing where he says Good Will Hunting was like a once in a lifetime thing
42:09that happens. And I feel like, you know, Odyssey is now you've had the second time in a lifetime.
42:15Like, do you look down the horizon and see maybe a hat trick?
42:17Who knows? You know what I mean? I have no right to expect it.
42:20Yeah.
42:20Let's put it that way. And, uh, you know, I, I, I really, uh, you know, I don't want to
42:26sound like a broken record, but I'm really, I have such gratitude for the fact that this came along my,
42:32my path at this point.
42:34You know, it was just a great role in a great movie in a huge collaborative effort, like just massive.
42:42And everyone was there for it. And I just, I'll just never forget it. You know, it was, it was,
42:46it was great. And I have no right to expect anything like that to happen again.
42:50But in the meantime, you know, I just want to make good stuff and, you know, definitely keep working with
42:56Ben, you know, cause we're at that point in our life where we're like, fuck it. Why not? You know
43:01what I mean?
43:02Running up.
43:02This was our, this was our dream as, as, as kids, as boys.
43:06Yeah.
43:06We got to honor those boys and keep, keep working together if we can.
43:10Quentin.
43:11Yeah.
43:11Get to work.
43:12He knows where to find me. Believe me. He knows where to find me.
43:15Matt, man, thank you so much.
43:16Thanks.
43:16Congrats again. Um, see you on the next one.
43:18Okay, man. Thank you.
43:19Appreciate it.
43:20Yeah.