- 3 minutes ago
Dustin Hoffman joins GQ as he revisits some of the most iconic characters from his career so far: from his portrayal of ‘megasavant’ Kim Peek, known as Raymond Babbitt in the award-winning Rain Man to his role as Bernie Focker in Meet The Fockers.Credits:Director: Nick CollettDirector of Photography: Jack BelisleEditor: Robby MasseyTalent: Dustin HoffmanSenior Producer: Michael BeckertLine Producer: Jen SantosProduction Manager: Evie RoopTalent Booker: Randi PeckCamera Operator: Jeremy HarrisGaffer: Niklas MollerSound Mixer: Rachel SuffianProduction Assistant: Lucy TurnerPost Production Supervisor: Stella ShortinoSupervising Editor: Rob LombardiAssistant Editor: Fynn LithgowExecutive Producer: Cara MarceanteDirector, Creative: Nick CollettAssociate Director, Programming: Jeremy Clowney
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Literally, in a split second, I'm going to say, hey, we're shooting a scene here.
00:06And my brain says, you can't do that.
00:08And it comes out, I'm walking here.
00:11But that's not what I meant.
00:12I meant, you're f***ing up a scene we finally got right.
00:20Brain Man.
00:26This is funny, right? Don't you think this is fun?
00:27Yeah, this is fun.
00:31Where did you see this first?
00:32Dad, Dad, give me a book on Facebook.
00:34Dad, huh?
00:35What drew me to the part of playing Rain Man is there was a 60 Minutes show I saw.
00:43And there was two guys, and they were brothers.
00:47And there was one that was very handsome, and he was a football star, and he said it on the
00:53show.
00:53And they had it because the other one was autistic, and I'd never heard the word before.
00:58It fascinated me.
00:59And I was able to do like a year and a half of research because Tom Cruise was going to
01:07be my brother, and he kept getting work in movies that became hits, despite the fact that I could think,
01:14well, he's done with this.
01:16And in the research, I was able to get some film, it was very difficult in those days, it's much
01:21easier now.
01:22I was able to see some film where this doctor was talking to these two people, and he dropped his,
01:31he was lighting a pipe or something, and he dropped the matches.
01:34And the matches hit the ground.
01:37And one of them immediately said 137, and the other one did it by tens, you know, and guessed the
01:45number in terms of that.
01:4782, 82, 82.
01:49They know it's 167.
01:51They don't count it.
01:53Toothpitch.
01:53They see it.
01:56Do you memorize the whole book?
01:57No.
01:58You start from the beginning?
01:59Yeah.
01:59How far did you get?
02:00G.
02:00G?
02:01G, God's sake, William Marshall, God's sake.
02:03You get so much information in life when you're looking at someone.
02:07Their expression is giving you information.
02:09If you're not looking, then you don't really know.
02:13It's a strange feeling.
02:15I think what happens is that it becomes too intense, that you're talking, and then you just have to look
02:22away.
02:22It's too intimate.
02:23And you look away, and you're talking to someone, but you're not looking in their eyes every second.
02:28You're looking here, you're looking there, and you'll glance.
02:30It's the intimacy is too painful.
02:35Once I understood a why, then it was easier for me.
02:39Because crews kept getting work, work, work, work.
02:42I was able to do more research, more research, more research.
02:45I wound up doing more than a year.
02:47I love that part better than filming.
02:49That's the most fun, in a way.
02:50It's the most interesting.
02:51And once we finally started, the first day, I couldn't do it.
02:58One of the things I, for better or worse, I don't like to rehearse a character.
03:04I like to gather the information.
03:06I can tell you where I got that from.
03:08I was a very early admirer, many, many years ago, of Spencer Tracy.
03:15And then Spencer Tracy and Katharine Hepburn.
03:18They made so many films together, they never rehearsed once.
03:22So when they're on camera, for the first time, they're speaking to each other.
03:28It's an extraordinary moment of realness.
03:35And I thought, let me try that.
03:37From that moment on, I would learn the lines.
03:40But I didn't even want to hear myself say it.
03:44I want it to be a surprise.
03:45I get all the research.
03:47It's just a personal thing.
03:48I get all the research that I can get.
03:50And then the first day of shooting, something happens.
03:54It either works or many times it doesn't.
03:56And this was a time when it didn't.
03:59There was a scene where we're standing around a car, Tom Cruise and I.
04:03And I said, I'm quitting.
04:04I can't do this.
04:06It's awful.
04:07And I knew it was awful.
04:08And it was.
04:09And I went up to the director, Barry Levinson.
04:11And I said, I'm firing myself.
04:14I don't know what I'm doing.
04:15What I say sounds like this film I already did.
04:20It's like five different parts I played in films.
04:24I'm putting them all because I don't know what I'm doing.
04:26And I said, I'll be glad to, you know, pay for the time that it's taken.
04:30And so he said, well, why don't we do this?
04:33Why don't we keep trying to, you'll find it.
04:36And if you don't, you know, give it two weeks, three weeks.
04:41And if it doesn't kick in, you can quit then.
04:44No other director would have done that.
04:46And I love Cruise.
04:47I love working with him.
04:49He's the most generous guy that you can find to work with.
04:52An extraordinarily hard worker.
04:54He would get up, I think, 4.30 in the morning and work out and then go running and then
04:58come
04:58back, work out again, and then go to work.
05:01He just has that extraordinary discipline.
05:04We had to do a scene where we're both in the car.
05:07He's driving and I'm sitting in the passenger seat.
05:09It's about 10 minutes of film in each camera.
05:12So, you know, do the 10 minutes that's in each one.
05:15Again, we couldn't change reels.
05:17And then just improvise.
05:19We do it two or three times and I can't do it.
05:23And so when we were doing the scene and he was brilliantly improvising, what do you think,
05:29Ray?
05:29I didn't know what, because I didn't know how this guy thought.
05:32And I want to quit again.
05:34We do it.
05:35We do it.
05:35We do it for hours.
05:37And I say to Barry, I can't, I really can't do it.
05:41And I can't.
05:42He says, come here.
05:43All right, I think, I think, I think I found something.
05:47And on the two shot on both of us, Tom was asking me questions.
05:52And all I'm saying is, yeah, because I don't know what the fuck else to say.
05:57I don't have an idea of this guy.
06:01And I just kept going, yeah, yeah.
06:04You know how to drive?
06:06Yeah.
06:08When did you drive?
06:09I drove the Buick on the driveway when my dad came to Wahlberg.
06:13Is that in the car?
06:15Is that in the car, Ray?
06:16Yeah.
06:17And he says, I think that's your guy.
06:19And he was right.
06:20He was extraordinary, Barry.
06:22And I said, yes, that's the guy.
06:24There's the guy.
06:26Tootsie.
06:32Gosh, I'm afraid you're not right for this role, though.
06:34I am.
06:34I'm sorry.
06:35Thanks for coming by.
06:36Posh 205.
06:37Do you want camera one or two on that?
06:38Camera two and tell Art about that.
06:40Why am I not right, Mr. Carlisle?
06:41Well, I'm just trying to make a certain statement here.
06:45And I'm looking for a very specific physical title.
06:49Mr. Carlisle, I'm an actress.
06:51I'm a character actress.
06:52I can play this part any way you want.
06:54Honey, I'm sure that you're...
06:54I really wanted to make a movie that showed how difficult it is for an actor to get work.
07:01There's maybe 10% of that of actors that make a living acting.
07:06And even those that, in that percentage, also have to wait on tables.
07:11So that was my intention.
07:13And then the idea of, well, what if I had a chance to play a woman?
07:19Would I do that?
07:20And my answer is always, easy.
07:24There's no actor that wouldn't take the job.
07:26If you can get away with it, you're getting paid.
07:28You know, it's funny because many times what draws you to it isn't what you wind up doing.
07:36I started working on that project with my friend, Marisha Scal, who was the writer with me.
07:44Having had the part and doing it, things started to happen, which I wasn't suspecting.
07:51And that is a little more of a sensitivity of what it's like to be a woman.
07:56It's just different.
07:58And there was a great acquaintance I knew.
08:04Her name was Polly Holiday.
08:06I was directing a play on Broadway.
08:08I happened to meet Polly Holiday for one of the parts.
08:13I'd like always to see all the actors I can because when I was trying to get a part,
08:19they really had a cutoff in terms of how many actors they would see.
08:23So I wanted to see the actors that usually don't get seen.
08:26And I asked her, I said, why didn't you come here earlier?
08:30She says, because I wouldn't have had a chance because of the way I look.
08:34I thought, that's something to pay attention to.
08:39How you look seemed to have so much to do with the burden on being a woman.
08:47And that means, oh, why?
08:49I have to shave my legs.
08:51I have to shave my armpits.
08:53I have to have a certain kind of makeup.
08:55I can't just be.
08:58Tootsie, take ten.
09:00Ron, my name is Dorothy.
09:02It's not Tootsie or Toots or Sweetie or Honey or Dow.
09:06Oh, Christ.
09:06No, just Dorothy.
09:08I have a large neck, larger than I should have.
09:12I have like a 17-inch neck that immediately didn't look particularly feminine.
09:17So that called for not being too open and it called for something like a turtleneck to cover it.
09:25The makeup was impossible.
09:26We men have what's called beard shadow.
09:31And it has nothing to do with how clean-shaven you are.
09:35Underneath that clean-shavenness, there is a coloring, follicles.
09:40And the first thing I wanted to do was to be able to pass as a woman.
09:45And I had an agreement with the studio.
09:47And that is to have the hair right, to have the makeup right.
09:50And I couldn't get it right.
09:52And finally we found a makeup that would work, but it only worked literally.
09:57And that's why the movie was like six months over.
09:59Because you'd shoot for ten minutes and it started to crack.
10:03And you'd have to stop.
10:04You'd have to sit in the chair for an hour just to get ten minutes on film.
10:09That was the toughest part.
10:11Do you worry about using so much heavy makeup on your skin all the time?
10:14No, I don't worry.
10:16I have a little mustache problem.
10:20A little sensitive, too.
10:21I've known my wife many, many, many years.
10:24Our families literally lived next door to each other.
10:27And her grandmother was the first person I had a sense of the character.
10:33Because her grandmother had a very low voice.
10:35And I said, how can I have a low voice?
10:39I went to UCLA.
10:40It was nearby.
10:41And I asked to speak to a speech therapist.
10:45She said something to me that was remarkable.
10:47So this would be 40 years ago or something.
10:51She says women tend to ask permission to speak.
10:56And they tend to wind up going up.
10:59Men say what they want.
11:01Here's the way it goes.
11:04Women say, well, don't you think?
11:07Because I couldn't get down deep.
11:09I said, who does that?
11:10They said, well, for some reason, people from the South many times wind up, well, you know what?
11:17Here's what's going on.
11:18And I could do that.
11:20I'm a little nervous.
11:21And I could get away with it as best as possible.
11:24I want to be able to walk down the street and fool people.
11:29My daughter is now 50-something.
11:33But then she was like in junior high school.
11:35And I knew they were having an outdoor event.
11:38And I went down to her junior high school and introduced myself and got away with it.
11:43Talking to her teachers that she was furious.
11:45Daddy, get out of here.
11:47How could you do this to me?
11:48But I did, I could, I could get away with it.
11:52I knew it, Helen.
11:53I'm awfully lonely.
11:54I wondered if you wouldn't mind buying me lunch.
11:55Wait, wait, hold on.
11:56You can't.
11:57Gregory, this will.
11:59George, George, George, George.
12:01It's Michael Dorsey, okay?
12:03Your favorite client.
12:05How are you?
12:06That was a place where we decided it would be a good place for the male persona, Michael Dorsey,
12:13to meet his agent in the Russian tea room.
12:15We chose that.
12:16And then sometimes I would have to do Michael Dorsey and then have to also do Dorothy Michael.
12:22So I'd have to go back in the makeup things.
12:23I would be doing both.
12:24But I was dressed as Dorothy.
12:27So I still, I went down.
12:29Again, nobody's looking at me.
12:31I'm getting away.
12:32Get in the elevator.
12:33And who gets on but Jose Ferrer.
12:36People probably won't know who he is.
12:37But when I was a kid, he was my hero because he had done, I think, Toulouse-Lautrec.
12:43I mean, he was one of the great actors.
12:45But I'm dressed as Dorothy.
12:47And I start telling him, I said, Mr. Ferrer, I'm sorry to do this, but you're my favorite actor.
12:54I've got pictures of you all over my walls.
12:56Oh, my God.
12:57I can't believe I ever.
12:58And then there's a naughty side to me, which I've always gotten kicked out of school for, but I can't
13:04get rid of it.
13:04I said, you know, I hate to ask you, but I don't know if I'll ever get to see you
13:08again.
13:08Would you mind very much if I gave you a blowjob?
13:12It just happened.
13:14And in the movies, they would go like this.
13:17But in real life, they don't.
13:19Because in real life, you don't want to be seen, you know, looking like you've been had or shocked.
13:25There was no change of expression.
13:27And I'll never forget what he said.
13:29It just came out.
13:31Not right now, thank you.
13:34And there was someone on with me, a second A.D., and I was going to start to break up.
13:39So I walked out as soon as I could and just went down the street.
13:44And the second A.D. stood there and remembered what Jose Ferrer said.
13:51As he saw me, he walked down the street.
13:52And he said, who was that scumbag of a woman?
13:57The Graduate.
14:03You don't have to be so nervous, you know.
14:05Nervous?
14:06Well, I am a bit nervous.
14:08I mean, it's pretty hard to be suave with me.
14:11Did you get us a room?
14:12What?
14:13Have you gotten us a room yet?
14:14I haven't, no.
14:16Do you want to?
14:18Well, I don't.
14:19I mean, I could.
14:20Or we could just talk.
14:21Mike Nichols, who was the director of the moment, deservedly.
14:26I had seen all the Mike Nichols' Elaine May routines, which still exist.
14:30They're extraordinary.
14:31He went and did his first movie, which I think was Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
14:38And Elizabeth Taylor, I think, got an Oscar for it.
14:41So now he decides to do a film called The Graduate.
14:44And he was looking, spent over a year trying to find that guy.
14:49It was written for a Redford, Robert Redford, 6'2", blonde, athletic, handsome.
14:56So he wanted to talk on the phone.
14:57So my agent said, you got to at least talk to him on the phone.
15:00And he's in L.A., I'm in New York.
15:02And we start talking on the phone.
15:04And he said, why don't you think that you're right?
15:06I says, come on.
15:07I says, I'm 5'6", very ethnic, funny looking, big nose.
15:12I said, I'm lucky to get character parts, you know.
15:16And I can't, I'm not this guy.
15:19I can't pretend to be this guy.
15:21He said, did you think, did you read the book?
15:23I said, yeah, I really liked the book.
15:24It was well written.
15:25And you don't think you're right for it because you're Jewish.
15:30I said, well, I wouldn't put it that way.
15:33I would say the character is so not Jewish.
15:36I said, he says, well, maybe if you like the humor.
15:40And it has, and it appeals to you, maybe he's Jewish inside.
15:47And that was a beginning where we would, because he really went out on a limb.
15:53Good evening.
15:54Hello.
15:55How are you, sir?
15:56We were the last ones to audition after a year and a half of him looking.
16:00Catherine Ross and I.
16:01Hi, Mr. Gladstone.
16:03How are you this evening?
16:06Benjamin?
16:07And I knew it was a horrible screen test.
16:09It was like 10 pages of dialogue that he wanted to do in one take.
16:15He didn't want to cut.
16:16And he sent it to us two days before.
16:19So I had to stay up all night in New York trying to learn, and I'm very slow learning,
16:23and then get on a plane.
16:25I continued.
16:26By the time I got there, I was a basket case.
16:29The next day, we're shooting, and he has the camera.
16:33I guess he maybe wanted to see how we could do, because we weren't movie actors.
16:39So the camera would start here without a cut, come in and go like that, and go back, and go
16:44around and do that, and come around and go back.
16:46And, you know, after about two pages, I was gone.
16:50And it's like the same thing happened to Catherine.
16:53It was just too difficult.
16:56And Nichols says, can I talk to you a minute?
16:59And I said, sure.
17:00I'm an unknown.
17:02You know, I don't know who he is.
17:03I just know he's the Spielberg of the moment.
17:06You know, we go off camera, and he says, why are you so nervous?
17:13And I said, well, he says, but there's no audience.
17:16He says, it's just film.
17:17No one's going to see it but a few people.
17:20You can be wrong.
17:22You can, there's no, you're not in front of an audience.
17:25It's not the theater.
17:28And he put his hand out, and I went and shook it, and his hand was so slippery with sweat,
17:35it literally came out.
17:36And I said, oh, boy, this guy is as nervous as, at least as I am.
17:41And he was.
17:43Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me.
17:45It was the most extraordinary experience I had ever had in rehearsal because he was such a named director.
17:53He could get anything he wanted, and they agreed to give him three weeks of rehearsal.
17:58Studios hire everyone.
18:01So if you're having three weeks of rehearsal, they're paying the editor, the cinematographer, the production director, all these people.
18:09They're getting paid because they've been hired already, but they're just sitting around while we're rehearsing.
18:15But Nichols got it.
18:16He got, usually it's one a week, sometimes two, he got three.
18:22He had been an actor.
18:23He had studied with Strasburg, as I had, and he knew what to ask.
18:29There's a scene that I have with the extraordinary Anne Bancroft, and it's when we first meet.
18:35And we tried to get the scene right.
18:37We had rehearsal.
18:38It was nowhere.
18:40And he took me aside.
18:41He said, when you were a kid, teenager, was there a hero?
18:45Who were your heroes?
18:46I said, I didn't really have any.
18:49I said, but I had an older brother.
18:51He was my hero.
18:53In fact, I could imitate him.
18:55I was good at imitating.
18:56Without everything, I'd be an actor.
18:58And girls would call, and I'd answer the phone and pretend I was Ronnie.
19:03And he said, why don't you just do the scene now with Anne Bancroft and pretend that you're your brother?
19:10Was your brother different when he was uptight, nervous?
19:14I said, oh, yeah.
19:16He said, in what way?
19:17I said, well, I knew because he held his breath.
19:20He didn't know he was holding his breath.
19:22He was uptight.
19:23And every once in a while, would come out.
19:27He said, so do the scene now with your brother.
19:30And he's uptight, nervous.
19:32And I did that.
19:33Now do the scene again and forget about all that.
19:36And whatever stays, stays by itself.
19:39And I'm just doing the scene with her.
19:41And for some reason, this sound came out, which wound up being a keynote in the film.
19:48In fact, he even put that sound in when I didn't do it.
19:52I'll see you soon, I hope.
19:54After the film was done, we did it in L.A.
19:57And they had a club, I think, where they would send films that hadn't opened yet to this person who
20:04had a screening room.
20:05They would watch it the next day.
20:06It was a club.
20:07Nichols saw the film, completed, and would go to those screenings in L.A.
20:12I was in New York.
20:13And he said, everyone said, and Terman, the producer, also said, each one said, what a brilliant film.
20:23It's a shame you miscast the lead.
20:27Meet the Fockers.
20:32You get over here and plant one on me.
20:34You want to talk about messages?
20:35I've been so long to see my best buddy.
20:39Good to see you.
20:39Come here.
20:40Come here.
20:41Oh, I missed you.
20:42Come on.
20:43This is not the most handsome young man you've ever seen in your life.
20:47Meet the Fockers.
20:48There are people with the name Focker.
20:51It's not an unusual name.
20:53One of the first things I did was look it up in the phone book.
20:56F-O-C-K-E-R.
20:59I heard that De Niro, who I greatly respected, wanted me to be in it with him.
21:06And you don't pass up an opportunity to work with Robert De Niro.
21:11And we met.
21:12And he liked his character because he played a very uptight, rigid character.
21:21And I was playing someone who had no boundaries at all.
21:26As my kids said when I saw it, Dad, you finally played yourself.
21:30And I remember the first time I saw De Niro in person for the talking about doing it,
21:37he had this physique.
21:39He was, you know, he was working on it.
21:42He was, maybe it was for him, maybe it was for the character,
21:44but it was also, you know, part of his persona.
21:48He worked out, you could tell.
21:50And I started improvising with him.
21:52And I said, I just want to feel your chest.
21:56And I just started feeling his chest.
21:58I said, my, look at those pecs.
22:00And I thought, there's my guy.
22:05Oh, wow.
22:06Look at those pecs.
22:07Wow, you're harder than sheetrock.
22:09Now tell me the truth now.
22:10You've got to work out weights, right?
22:11I met Barbra Streisand in acting class in New York, I think, in 1958.
22:18And when I started studying, she was in the same acting class.
22:21She was going to be on a TV show.
22:24And I remember watching it on that Friday on TV by myself in my apartment.
22:29And I'm thinking, oh, boy, she's loading up the Brooklyn accent, you know,
22:33and she's chewing, look like six wads or six sticks of gum, you know.
22:39So he says, yeah, you want to sing?
22:41Yeah, why not?
22:41And I thought, oh, boy.
22:42And she takes this wad of gum out.
22:44Remember, it was a stool.
22:45She puts it under the stool.
22:47And I thought, oh, there she goes.
22:50And suddenly she starts singing.
22:52Now, this has never happened to me.
22:53Some things have never happened to you before.
22:55And then it happens.
22:57I'm watching her.
22:59I'm by myself.
23:01And I'm not aware that I'm crying.
23:03She was brilliant.
23:06She was fucking brilliant.
23:10All the President's Men.
23:16You get all that?
23:16What did he say about meeting in a bar or a restaurant?
23:18He said he forgot the entire incident.
23:19That means he didn't deny it.
23:20It's a non-denial denial.
23:22I should talk Kansas.
23:24Yeah, he said that's a bullshit question.
23:26I know what he said, but I'm from Wheaton, Illinois.
23:28Hey, Bob, he's on the phone.
23:30Who?
23:33People have said to this day that it's the best film about journalism ever made.
23:39The year after it was made, I think the enrollment of kids wanting to be journalists tripled.
23:46I don't think I thought of it in terms of, well, this is a real person and other people were
23:51fictional.
23:51What drew me to it was, well, first and foremost, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford, Redford.
24:00He was a huge star at the moment.
24:03Every studio he went to, turn him down.
24:05Even he was as big a star as he was.
24:08And they all said the same thing.
24:11No one is going to see this film because they know how it ends.
24:15Nixon resigns.
24:17And he said, but it's, I don't, that's not the story.
24:23The story is how these guys work together, how they uncovered it.
24:28That's the, and he was the only one to understand that.
24:32Alan Pakula, who was the director.
24:34I was not his first choice because I'd heard this thing is going around.
24:39He's not asking.
24:40I hear it all.
24:41Pacino's been asked.
24:42Stallone's been asked.
24:44De Niro's been at it.
24:45And suddenly there, there I am at, I think, a Laker game.
24:49And I have very good seats.
24:51And he has very good seats.
24:53And he said, I never met him.
24:54And he's sitting down at the end and there's a break.
24:58And we go, oh, I like that.
25:00And he says, how would you like to be, play Carl Bernstein?
25:04Either I said, well, it took you so long or I thought it.
25:07You know, I'd like to think that I probably didn't.
25:10And so I said, yes.
25:12And what fascinated me about it is what fascinated him is that these two guys who, through their
25:21extraordinary diligence and work ethic, stayed with it and brought down the president of
25:28the United States.
25:29I was fascinated by the fact that they did this and they worked together, but they did
25:37not like each other.
25:38What the reason for it was, is they both worked differently.
25:43If you're going to do it, do it right.
25:44You're my notes.
25:45If you're going to hype it, hype it with the facts.
25:47I don't mind what you did.
25:48I don't mind the way you did.
25:49Woodward was methodical, extremely hardworking.
25:53B follows A.
25:55You get B.
25:56The next is C.
25:57How do I figure that out?
25:59The next is D.
26:00All the way.
26:02Bernstein was lazy and yet intuitive.
26:06And he would go A, B, H.
26:10Woodward said, what do you mean?
26:11He says, I just don't.
26:13He was intuitive and he was right.
26:15Redford said, let's not just learn our own lines.
26:19Let's learn each other's lines.
26:21So that when we interview, because a lot of it was interviewing, knocking on the door
26:26and, you know, the person answering the door.
26:29And we asked these people that knew we had actors playing those parts.
26:34But, and they, actors know what the dialogue is for the scene is.
26:39But if I know your lines and you know mine, and we decide at the last second, they're going to
26:47be thrown in real life.
26:49And I thought that was very smart.
26:51Haldeman was the fifth name to control that fund and Sloan would have told the grand jury.
26:55Sloan wanted to tell the grand jury.
26:56Why didn't he?
26:57Because nobody asked him.
26:59It was wonderful.
27:01And that was Redford.
27:02And I have to say, Redford, Redford, Redford.
27:05He just, he is, he is that movie.
27:08He's the reason that movie is here.
27:10Oh boy, he was a smart guy.
27:16It's not fair.
27:25You're on the list for the public viewing, which starts in 45 minutes.
27:29Right now, this is a private viewing.
27:30Tell her it's a mistake.
27:31Tell her LJ put me on the private list.
27:33Okay.
27:34Tell her this is bullshit.
27:35Yeah.
27:36We're old friends with LJ.
27:38Sorry, I can't let you in.
27:39Right now, it's a private event.
27:41Tell her to tell LJ.
27:42Yeah, she hears everything you're saying.
27:43I was very surprised because I thought it was a very well-written script.
27:48And I met Noel and, you know, had great admiration for his talent.
27:51But I said, if you want me to be frank with you, that's based on your father.
27:56He says, yes.
27:56I said, but your father's living.
27:58He says, yeah, but he's all right with it.
28:00I said, really?
28:01His father was angry and bitter because he wasn't successful as an artist.
28:11And that's what he wrote.
28:13I remember I spent months of allowance on that pool cue for your birthday.
28:19Shut it up, bitch!
28:21I was fascinated by this person.
28:25And again, you're coming from yourself as much as you can.
28:29So you're blending.
28:30You want to be an artist with all your heart.
28:34You want to be successful with all your heart.
28:37You want to be admired with all your heart.
28:40And you're not.
28:41And you cannot face the fact that, in fact, as much as you want to be an artist, you're second
28:49rate.
28:50How does that alter you?
28:52The anger, which ultimately is self-anger.
28:55Nobody wants to be second rate at what they love the most.
29:00Midnight Cowboy.
29:05Terrific shirt.
29:08Are you speaking to me?
29:09Well, I was just admiring that colossal shirt.
29:12I mean, that is one hell of a shirt.
29:14I bet you paid a pretty price for it, am I right?
29:16Oh, I ain't cheap.
29:18Yeah.
29:19Birds.
29:19I say it's an all-right shirt.
29:21I like birds.
29:22You know, most of the time you get scripts.
29:25And I hate to say it, but most scripts aren't very well written.
29:29Just like most movies, I mean, aren't very good movies.
29:33I mean, how many movies does anyone see in a year that they go,
29:37that's a good movie, that's a good movie, that's a good movie.
29:39Suddenly, there's this thing called Midnight Cowboy.
29:46I heard about it, and I heard that it was from a novel by the same name.
29:51And I think it was James Leo Herlihy, I think.
29:55And so I got the novel, and I read it, and I found out that John Schlesinger was directing it.
30:03And he was a director that I highly admired for the work he had done in British.
30:08He didn't want to see me for the part, I found out.
30:11He was, you know, interviewing and auditioning everybody but me, it seemed like.
30:17And I asked my agent why, and she said, because he saw The Graduate, and he thinks you're basically The
30:24Graduate.
30:25How the hell are you going to be this Enrico Rizzo?
30:28I said, I begged my agent to say, I just want to have a meeting.
30:33He didn't want to meet me.
30:34Can we just have a meeting?
30:35I may have said it to him on the phone, I can't remember.
30:38I said, do me a favor, let's meet at 2.30 in the morning on 42nd Street.
30:46There was a horn and hard heart in those days, and only, you know, desperate people would go there at
30:523 in the morning.
30:52I had a whole other crowd.
30:54And I had been there.
30:56I had spent time there just as an unemployed actor, as many actors.
31:01And so he agreed to meet me, and I went out, and I got clothing, old clothing, or I had
31:08old clothing.
31:08I didn't shave for three days or four days.
31:11I had a motorcycle then, and I drove that motorcycle, I remember, up and down the West Side Highway.
31:19So I would just, you know, look awful.
31:22And I met him, and there I am, and he was surprised it was me, because he'd only known me
31:31as the graduate.
31:33And he looked around that 3 in the morning place, and he says, these people that look not unlike me.
31:40He says, I remember what he said, because the actors, sometimes you remember lines.
31:45And he says, oh, yes, you do quite well, because, he says, there was no difference.
31:52And so I got the part.
31:54You know, I tried to get in touch with you when I heard, but I was laid off with this
31:58call.
32:01I remember that Mike Nichols called me, and he heard that I had taken a part in an X, actually
32:10X-rated.
32:11After he got the Academy Award, they changed it from X to R, actually.
32:16They didn't want to have an X-rated movie around that won the Academy Award.
32:21And he says, I hear you, you've taken this part?
32:24I said, yes, on the phone.
32:25And he was very upset.
32:26He says, I made you a star, and now you're taking a part of this filthy, you know, and it's
32:34not even a star.
32:34It's a supporting part.
32:35Everything that he said delighted me.
32:37I was so happy that he felt that way, because I was doing what I wanted, because I could prove
32:42myself as an actor.
32:43I could get revenge, which is what I wanted.
32:47I wanted revenge, because all the people that wrote articles and everything, they all assumed,
32:53and yes, Nichols found this guy who was like Benjamin Braddock.
32:57And I wanted to show, no, I'm an actor.
32:59I've been doing this for 10 years, for God's sake.
33:03And I remember he said his walk, his limp, was like the fourth wheel was missing, or had another wheel
33:10that was bigger.
33:11So it was like this.
33:13It had a certain thing.
33:15As I said, my favorite thing, besides talking about acting, is I love the research.
33:23And I followed people around for months and months and months, because I had the time.
33:28People that had limps looking for the limp that I wanted.
33:32And then I see this guy who's got this limp, and I followed him.
33:38And he gets to New York, and he gets to the corner where there's a light, and it's always a
33:44bunch of people there in New York City.
33:46For some reason, when the light changes, everybody wants to be the first to the other side.
33:51Like it means something.
33:53It becomes a race.
33:54It's everybody's, you know, moving fast, even just as it's turning to green.
33:59This guy got there before anybody else with a limp.
34:03And I said, there's my guy.
34:04And it's funny, because to this day, I mean, what is this, 40 years ago, cowboys, more than that maybe,
34:12people still come up to me,
34:14because they do that sometimes with people that become stars.
34:17They'll say a line out of, they used to say to me, plastics, after the graduate.
34:22Plastics.
34:23Plastics.
34:24And then walk away.
34:26It was like a compliment, which was very nice.
34:27And then suddenly it became, I'm walking here.
34:30I'm walking here.
34:31I'm walking here.
34:33The truth about I'm walking here is that it's a real thing I said.
34:38I was crossing the street, and I was shooting.
34:42You know, he couldn't get financing for it.
34:44Who the hell is going to give money?
34:45So it's Schlesinger's in a car across the street with a camera and in a wide lens.
34:52And we have a scene that John Voight was magnificent.
34:57And we were doing this scene.
34:59It was like a three-page scene.
35:00It was written just to be standing there.
35:03He says, no.
35:04And he's right.
35:04He's a filmmaker.
35:06I want you to do this scene as you're walking.
35:08We'll put the mics on you, and we'll be across the street with a camera.
35:12So the cars are real cars.
35:14The pedestrians are, it's all what they call stolen shots.
35:18And so he's shooting, and we're doing it over and over and over again.
35:21But we get to the corner, and there's a light.
35:24And we can't seem to get the timing right because we want to, we can't get it all said by
35:29the time we get to the light.
35:31So Schlesinger says, make sure the light is green so you can continue the scene.
35:36And I'll put the camera be on your back so you'll finish the last page or two across the street.
35:43I'll be behind you.
35:44Very nice shot, the way he's talking about it.
35:46But over and over again, we're getting there, and we can't.
35:49And then suddenly, like the 11th take or whatever, hours it's taking, it's because, oh, we've got to get further
35:56back when we start.
35:57We've got to let it, oh, that's too far.
35:58You know, we've got to.
35:59And there we are doing it.
36:01And boom, just as we get there, it turns green.
36:05It had been red.
36:06Perfect timing.
36:06Now we can go across the street.
36:08And because it's a stolen shot, there's a fucking cab that's trying to beat the light that almost hit us.
36:15And I remember, and that's how your brain works.
36:19Literally, in a split second, I'm going to say, hey, we're shooting a scene here.
36:25And my brain says, you can't do that.
36:27And it comes out, I'm walking here.
36:30But that's not what I meant.
36:31I meant, you're fucking up a scene.
36:33We finally got right.
36:34Every human being deserves to be alive.
36:38And that's the subtext.
36:40I'm alive.
36:41That's why people are saying I'm walking here.
36:44Because they deserve to be alive.
36:50And that's what he wanted more than anything else, to be alive, to be a human being,
36:56which went beyond being Enrique Salvatore Rizzo.
37:01He was a human being.
37:04Hook.
37:24I think I have a record of turning down Steven Spielberg more than any other actor.
37:31He asked me to do Close Encounters.
37:35So I get the script.
37:37And I remember, I read it.
37:39And I remember there's a long table.
37:42And I take the script.
37:43And I said, this is the best script I've ever read.
37:46And I'm turning it down.
37:48And I remember I went like, that went the full length of the table.
37:51I can remember it.
37:52And I said, because I don't know how to play this guy any differently than I did The Graduate.
37:58It's like the same guy.
37:59Now, I've since learned, after having enough therapy analysis, that I was trying not to be a success.
38:08As I said, I was the designated failure in the family.
38:11That's when he hired Dreyfus.
38:13And Dreyfus has said many times, wonderful actor, he says, I'm a star because of all the parts Dustin turned
38:20down.
38:20He was always the next one to be asked.
38:23And then Hook comes along.
38:26And this is another time where nothing like this has ever happened before or after.
38:31I know this guy, Mike Medavoy.
38:33And he calls me up on the phone.
38:35And he says, I just had a crazy idea.
38:39Somehow he came upon the character Captain Hook.
38:44He says, you want to do Captain Hook?
38:47And I didn't know much about him at all, the character.
38:50And I said, okay.
38:53I just said it.
38:54What would the world be like without Captain Hook?
38:57So there's Peter Pan and there's Captain Hook.
39:02I said, so, okay.
39:04So who do you think would be perfect for PB?
39:07And he says, Robin Williams, who was doing wonderful acting work.
39:11And I said, so who would be your first choice to direct?
39:15He said, well, Spielberg.
39:16I said, okay.
39:17And I hang up the phone.
39:19This is the truth.
39:21I called them both up.
39:22I called up Robin and he just said, yeah.
39:26Spielberg was in Spain doing something, I remember.
39:29And I got his phone number and I called him up.
39:32I don't know what time it was.
39:33And I said, so, Steven, there's this character Hook.
39:37And he's got, you know, Peter Pan, the lost boy.
39:41Mike Medavoy wants to know if I should do Hook.
39:43It sounds like it's an interesting part.
39:45Already we've gotten a yes from Robin.
39:48And the perfect director would be you.
39:50And he says, yeah, never happened before.
39:53Within five minutes.
39:55And I called up Medavoy.
39:57I'm in it.
39:58Robin's in it.
39:59And Spielberg is in it.
40:02Marathon Man.
40:24Again, it was a very well-written novel.
40:27But the reason to do it was Bob Evans.
40:30He was a very good studio head.
40:32And he said, why don't we do this thing called Marathon Man?
40:36You would be Babe Levy.
40:38It would be about anti-Semitism.
40:41Sir Lawrence said, Olivier should be the Nazi in it, Zell.
40:45And we should get Schlesinger to direct it.
40:47And he was spot on in terms of what would make that film work.
40:54Olivier was dying when he was approached.
40:58And he knew it.
41:01He had a cancer that was terminal.
41:04He would not have taken the part, but he wanted money to leave to his children.
41:12And I think Bob Evans offered him a million dollars, something like that.
41:19And it would pay for the schooling for his sons.
41:23And he said yes.
41:25Here was a guy who had memorized Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear, and would do them in repertory.
41:35And he was taking heavy medication.
41:39And it was hard for him to put two sentences together.
41:42And I would help him as I could.
41:51Is it safe?
41:54You're talking to me.
41:56Is it safe?
41:58It's what safe.
41:58Here is this great actor, Lawrence Olivier.
42:01He knows what the script is.
42:03He knows that scene is coming up.
42:05And the day it comes up, he keeps putting it up.
42:08Oh, I'll figure out how I want to do it before I do it.
42:11You want to know certain things, make certain decisions.
42:13And he told me the day we're doing it, he said, I woke up this morning.
42:18And I knew, oh, I've got to do that scene.
42:21And he says that I was scared to death because I didn't know how to do it.
42:24He wanted to do it in a way that actors would not have done it before.
42:30You want to have a fresh way.
42:31He says that I was having breakfast.
42:33And I looked out the window.
42:34He says, and I saw this gardener.
42:37And he was clipping roses very carefully because he didn't want to get any thorns.
42:42And I've done that.
42:43You have to be very careful when you clip roses because the thorns are there.
42:47And he says, that's the way I want it.
42:49I want to be gentle.
42:51I want to be very gentle.
43:01And he says, oh, but he says, don't worry, I won't hurt you.
43:04And he's going gentle, gentle, gentle.
43:07And it has a reality to it.
43:10And we did a few.
43:11And then I said to myself, he's a great actor.
43:15I wonder, and he wanted to be always very careful where he was holding it, that he could do that,
43:21but it wouldn't go in because it was a long needle.
43:23The needle was real.
43:24You should take better care of your teeth.
43:25You have quite a cavity here.
43:28And I said, I wonder if I could scream so that he believes he really did.
43:33And I went, and he believes that he really hurt me.
43:37And I said, I fooled the master.
43:40Life can't be that simple.
43:43Relief, discomfort.
43:44I didn't want to call him Lord, and I didn't want to call him Sir, so I called him Lordage,
43:49and he liked that.
43:50I said, Lordage.
43:52I said, why do we do what we do?
43:54I'm always curious.
43:56What makes a cameraman a cameraman?
43:58What makes a writer a writer?
43:59What makes an actor an actor?
44:02And I've talked to a lot of actors, and many of them say, oh, I have a gift.
44:07I have a talent.
44:08I want to share that with the world, blah, blah, blah, blah.
44:11And he would say, bollocks, bollocks, bollocks, which is a British word meaning balls and cock.
44:15Bollocks, but it means bullshit with the Brits.
44:19Bollocks, bollocks.
44:19I said, so why do we do what we do?
44:21And he said it to me, and I've just written my own, you know, memoir.
44:28And it's the title of the book, and it's because he said it.
44:33He says, bollocks, so why do we act?
44:35And he came nose to nose.
44:37He says, you want to know why?
44:38I says, yes.
44:39And he said, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me, look.
44:44Never forgotten it.
44:46Never forgotten it.