00:00I think Ben Solak started this.
00:01He did.
00:02But fresh off the Chargers starting 0-5,
00:06Ben Solak tweeted out that given that Justin Herbert is 28,
00:11he's got four years left on his deal,
00:13what would you offer to trade for him?
00:15So it was just like a hypothetical exercise.
00:17Well, then Adam Schefter on the Adam Schefter podcast,
00:21curious timing, I'm sure,
00:23talked about whether or not Justin Herbert could be traded.
00:26Last week, I had a conversation with a high-level league executive,
00:32very smart,
00:33and we were going over a lot of different things around the league,
00:36and this person said to me,
00:37you know what would be really interesting?
00:39If the Chargers traded Justin Herbert for three ones,
00:42and this person said, well, they could trade him for three ones,
00:45they'd have their own one,
00:47you now have four ones,
00:49and you'd start to rebuild the team.
00:51And this is a team that has had Justin Herbert,
00:54and they have not won a playoff game in seven years.
00:58And I listened to the person,
00:59I thought to myself,
01:00that's a really intriguing idea.
01:02And I thought about it for a couple of days,
01:04and I'm like, you know what,
01:04let me just ask somebody with the Chargers,
01:06like, and the person basically cut me off mid-sentence,
01:10stopped me in my tracks,
01:11and said, let me be very clear about this.
01:15We have never even discussed that idea.
01:19The sentence, should we trade Justin Herbert,
01:23has never once been uttered in our organization,
01:27nor will it be.
01:28All right.
01:29Except in that phone call.
01:30Yeah, also,
01:32this kind of absolute no,
01:35how dare you,
01:36that makes sense week five.
01:38Ten weeks from now, we'll see.
01:40And I think that's where Ben Solak is probably early on this.
01:44I don't know that he's wrong.
01:45If the Chargers end up going 5-12 or 4-13,
01:49and they're in a position to take a stab
01:51at the next quarterback,
01:53I do think there are going to be very serious conversations
01:56about Justin Herbert,
01:57even if it's just,
01:58all right, I still think we'll just take Jeremiah Smith.
02:00Well, I wonder if they have to decide at some point,
02:03do we keep Harbaugh or do we keep Herbert?
02:05And maybe Herbert actually ends up losing out on that battle.
02:09I don't know.
02:09It's so early to tell,
02:11but this has not gone well for Justin Herbert in such a way.
02:14And so, I just don't think it's crazy.
02:17If you're the Chargers,
02:19winless,
02:20have never won a playoff game,
02:22you know he's got all the talent in the world,
02:23but maybe you have to recognize,
02:24maybe this isn't the guy for Jim Harbaugh.
02:26I just think it's weird,
02:27because I think so much of what has happened this year
02:31can be chalked up to a couple bad breaks in game,
02:35but mostly,
02:36they're just not healthy.
02:37Like, they've got a similar,
02:39I don't want to say a similar situation.
02:40Their offensive line is absolute trash.
02:41Yeah, I mean, none of their,
02:42has been the entire Herbert time.
02:44They're in like,
02:45well, no,
02:45but they at least had the pieces there,
02:47and then all the pieces got hurt.
02:49Like, Slater's been injured,
02:50Alt has been banged up,
02:52I can't remember their big guard,
02:53Saley has been banged up,
02:55oh no,
02:55I don't think he's there anymore.
02:56But the guys they have in their offensive line,
02:58they were down to like a fourth string right guard,
03:00like two weeks ago.
03:02That can explain a fair amount of the problems they're having here,
03:05because then they can't run the ball,
03:06and it puts all the pressure on Justin Herbert.
03:09Here's the thing.
03:10Okay, but the response there is what happened the other six years for Herbert.
03:13You know what I mean?
03:13He's been really good.
03:15Well, he's never won a playoff game.
03:16So, but his,
03:17I don't think it's been because of him.
03:19One, they've made some Dodo coaching hires.
03:22Two,
03:23they,
03:24I mean,
03:24Greg Roman being your offensive coordinator,
03:26immediately gives you a pass.
03:27And even this year,
03:28like,
03:28we're five games in,
03:29and it's Mike McDaniel.
03:30Like,
03:31I think it'll work out,
03:32you just got to give him time and give him health.
03:33But like,
03:34I don't know,
03:35the Justin Herbert,
03:36the,
03:36the,
03:37I don't know how you watch the guy and don't just think,
03:39oh,
03:40this is one of the five most talented throwers in the NFL.
03:42We probably shouldn't throw this guy away.
03:43We should maybe make it work.
03:44No,
03:44he's got,
03:45he's not throwing him away.
03:46You'd be trading him for a boatload of picks is the idea.
03:49He's got,
03:49I believe he's got the second best arm in the sport from a quarterback standpoint.
03:53Josh Allen's got the number one strongest arm.
03:55I think Justin Herbert has the second strongest arm in the entire NFL.
03:58Everyone knows he's talented.
03:59It's just whether or not the time has come for the chargers and Justin
04:02Herbert to say,
04:03Hey,
04:04listen,
04:04you're great,
04:05but it just isn't going to work out here because it hasn't worked out
04:07with us.
04:07The reason why in the end,
04:10again,
04:10Ben Solak and anyone like yourself pointing out,
04:12this is going to be a valid conversation late in the season.
04:15If the chargers don't pick it up is this out,
04:17bad organizations think.
04:18And the chargers are,
04:19it is,
04:20it is low key.
04:22How is it really just under the radar,
04:24how bad the chargers organization is run.
04:27And like,
04:28even you mentioned something.
04:29And I do think they'll think,
04:30Oh,
04:30do we have to choose between Jim Harbaugh and Justin Herbert?
04:33I wonder if it comes to you.
04:34And my thought would be,
04:35yeah,
04:35that's how bad organization thinks.
04:37Make it work.
04:37Hey,
04:37Jim,
04:38we pay a lot of money.
04:39Make it work.
04:39Hey,
04:39Justin,
04:40we pay a lot of money.
04:41Make it work.
04:42Make it work.
04:42It's gotten them 0 and 5 to start off the season.
04:44Now my great hope is make it work.
04:46Has them as the laughingstock of the NFL.
04:47My great hope is this is a dumb organization.
04:51And the Browns can slide in and just be like,
04:54Justin Herbert,
04:55you're going to love Cleveland this time.
04:56So here's why I think there's some optimism for the Browns or for some other teams in the
05:00Justin Herbert business.
05:01I just,
05:02I don't know that Jim Harbaugh,
05:03I don't know him with someone of the talents of Justin Herbert necessarily makes the most
05:08sense in general.
05:09Think about him historically,
05:11Jim Harbaugh in the NFL.
05:12We can even take to this college ranks too.
05:14Who was his quarterbacks in San Francisco?
05:16Alex Smith,
05:17Colin Kaepernick,
05:18not necessarily considered to be top five quarterbacks in the sport.
05:21Then he goes to Michigan.
05:23JJ McCarthy's great,
05:24but JJ McCarthy is who JJ McCarthy is.
05:26Like that was,
05:26that was a lot of what,
05:27that was a lot of Harbaugh and what Harbaugh was dialing up.
05:30It's not necessarily JJ McCarthy being a great quarterback.
05:32And then you get here and you can even bring this to Mike McDaniel.
05:35Mike McDaniel was awesome in Miami with who?
05:37With Tua,
05:38not a quarterback,
05:38not a Lamborghini,
05:39not somebody that everyone thinks has this big,
05:41magnificent arm and all these tools to work with.
05:44Like Harbaugh and McDaniel have thrived with guys that have less than abilities.
05:48And now they got a Lamborghini and it seems like he doesn't know how to drive it.
05:51I just think it'd make more sense if it was like a system thing,
05:54like,
05:54like Kyle Shanahan,
05:56like there's a specific trait you're looking for to run the specific Shanahan offense.
06:00That's why Kirk cousins has done so well.
06:03It's why Brock Purdy was able to be a seventh round pick and do it with Herbert.
06:07Like there's nothing like Jim Harbaugh doesn't have a system that he's the beauty of Jim Harbaugh is he,
06:12they ran a slightly different system from Alex Smith to Kaepernick and a completely different system from
06:18Kaepernick to McCarthy and a completely different system from McCarthy to her.
06:22Sure.
06:23But the through line there is getting the most out of quarterbacks that we think are very mediocre.
06:27Yeah.
06:27But if you can't win with a elite level,
06:30a talented quarterback,
06:31well,
06:32then we have your answer on Jim Harbaugh as a modern head coach,
06:35as opposed to what he did.
06:36But that's why it would give me,
06:37it made me some hope even for someone like a Todd Munkin or someone like the Browns and having these
06:41discussions.
06:41Like not everyone knows how to drive a Lambeau.
06:43So I have no idea if Todd Munkin's a good head coach in the NFL,
06:46zero clue yet.
06:47We're still finding out.
06:48What I do know is he knows what to do with someone like Lamar Jackson,
06:50though.
06:51He's driven the Lambeau.
06:52He knows,
06:52he knows how to get the most out of that.
06:53He can do that with a high powered offense.
06:55And so I,
06:56I just think there's a,
06:57I like that you brought up Shanahan in this because he also comes into this equation.
07:01Not everybody is McVay that you give a Matthew Stafford.
07:05They know exactly what to do with it.
07:06And other coaches,
07:07they can make the most out of a Jimmy Garoppolo.
07:09They can make the most out of some of the other guys.
07:11I do wonder how many Browns fans would be skittish at trading another three first for
07:17a established veteran quarterback with a big contract.
07:20I think a lot of Browns fans would,
07:21I don't know me and you seem both like it'd be happy about it.
07:24I don't know that.
07:25I don't know that it'd be unanimously applauded.
07:27And I can't necessarily talk into it either.
07:29The Deshaun one was the biggest swing in franchise history.
07:33And we're,
07:33we're getting a little fun in the first five games of this season,
07:37but it's still,
07:37I mean,
07:38it still is the worst trade in NFL history until something cataclysmic happens to reverse it.
07:42And you're buying a premium on a guy that is right now at his lowest point.
07:46You know,
07:47like,
07:47I mean,
07:47his PFF,
07:48he is the second worst quarterback in the NFL out of 43 qualified quarterbacks.
07:53Only one worse is Cooper Rush.
07:54This is Justin Herbert.
07:55We're talking about.
07:56Oh,
07:56Eric is,
07:57seems to be out on the idea of giving up three picks for Herbert.
08:00Uh,
08:01Eric,
08:01welcome to the show.
08:04Oh,
08:05Eric.
08:05Oh,
08:06wait,
08:06Eric.
08:07Well,
08:07I think we got you now,
08:08buddy.
08:08Sorry about that.
08:09Yeah.
08:10You were looking at things through the lens of the tent,
08:12the chargers franchise.
08:14Um,
08:15but not necessarily on the outside.
08:17Like,
08:18yeah,
08:18like what franchise is willing to spend three first round picks?
08:22Take the Browns out of it.
08:23If you're another franchise who needs a quarterback,
08:26are you going to spend three first round picks,
08:28especially knowing what happened with the Browns and Deshaun Watson?
08:32I think there would be three,
08:35four,
08:35five teams lining up to,
08:37to trade multiple first round picks for Justin Herbert,
08:40especially,
08:41and here's why we have been in the quarterback desert the last three years,
08:45whether it's top picks,
08:46whether it's veterans that were available,
08:49there's been such a scarcity of top talented quarterbacks.
08:52The first time one actually hits the open market,
08:56even if it is the first one since Deshaun.
08:58Oh,
08:59do I think there would be,
09:00I mean,
09:01there would be one,
09:02there would,
09:02there would be at least five or six teams.
09:04I think the difference here is that it,
09:06the idea is,
09:07is that he,
09:08he doesn't have any problems off the field outside of,
09:10I don't know,
09:10dating medicine beer,
09:11who apparently is a problem,
09:12I guess.
09:12I don't know.
09:12Right.
09:13He doesn't need massages if he's dating her,
09:15but,
09:17but,
09:18I lost my train of thought.
09:20I know,
09:20you cried yourself up there.
09:22It's all right.
09:22But you know what?
09:22We ended up in a joke you felt good about there.
09:25You felt good about it.
09:26Yeah.
