- 9 hours ago
John and Chino discuss Romans 8 and the "manifestation of the sons of God," examining how Hobart Freeman and William Branham connected biblical passages with end-times urgency, elite groups of believers, the Latter Rain movement, restoration theology, and expectations that major prophetic events were about to occur. They revisit Freeman's teaching about the mark of the beast and Social Security numbers, his expectations surrounding Israel and 1967, and his repeated emphasis on preparation for manifestation.
They also examine the recurring pattern of interpreting current events through biblical prophecy, including rapture predictions, Nebuchadnezzar's dream, Eisenhower and Khrushchev, and claims surrounding iron and clay. Chino explains how Freeman understood Romans 8 and why he ultimately concluded that the passage does not identify a special group of believers as the ones responsible for delivering creation from corruption.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
03:48 Why Eschatology Captures People’s Attention
10:47 Elite Groups, Rapture Theology, and the Elect
15:35 Hobart Freeman and the Social Security Number
24:10 Premillennialism and Freeman’s End-Times Framework
33:16 Romans 8, False Gods, and the Manifested Sons of God
38:03 End-Times Urgency and Failed Predictions
45:04 Preparing for the Manifestation of the Sons of God
54:01 Hobart Freeman’s “Preparation for Manifestation”
1:01:24 What Romans 8 Actually Says
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
They also examine the recurring pattern of interpreting current events through biblical prophecy, including rapture predictions, Nebuchadnezzar's dream, Eisenhower and Khrushchev, and claims surrounding iron and clay. Chino explains how Freeman understood Romans 8 and why he ultimately concluded that the passage does not identify a special group of believers as the ones responsible for delivering creation from corruption.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
03:48 Why Eschatology Captures People’s Attention
10:47 Elite Groups, Rapture Theology, and the Elect
15:35 Hobart Freeman and the Social Security Number
24:10 Premillennialism and Freeman’s End-Times Framework
33:16 Romans 8, False Gods, and the Manifested Sons of God
38:03 End-Times Urgency and Failed Predictions
45:04 Preparing for the Manifestation of the Sons of God
54:01 Hobart Freeman’s “Preparation for Manifestation”
1:01:24 What Romans 8 Actually Says
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host, minister, and friend, Cheno Ross,
00:00:45pastor and the voice of The Understanding Scripture and Truth by Cheno D. Ross YouTube channel.
00:00:51Cheno, this is, I will say, out of all of the episodes that we've done, this is probably
00:00:56the most important for multiple reasons, which you and I have not yet discussed.
00:01:01We're going to be talking about Romans 8 today, and to the average Christian who's familiar
00:01:06with their Bible and the passages, they think, oh boy, that's Romans 8.
00:01:10But to the people who were impacted by the movements that you and I are talking about, they're
00:01:15like, oh boy, Romans 8.
00:01:18It carries such sinister connotations with the way that it was framed, and there's a
00:01:25reason why.
00:01:26Not many people know this, and I actually did not want to share this with you beforehand
00:01:30because I kind of wanted to see the surprise on your face when I go here.
00:01:35But you can type in Romans 8 in the Branham database and search it, and you can see exactly
00:01:41where he starts to talk about it, and he talks about it from that point all the way through
00:01:45his entire ministry.
00:01:47I grew up hearing Romans 8, Romans 8, Romans 8.
00:01:49And if we didn't hear the phrase, we didn't hear the book and the chapter number, we would
00:01:56hear phrases that were taken out of that passage, you know, that chapter.
00:02:00So I grew up hearing it over and over, constantly drilled into my head.
00:02:04After leaving, I went to another church.
00:02:07I think I've mentioned this on the podcast.
00:02:09It was something simple like maybe a Christmas or an Easter message, maybe a 10, 15-minute
00:02:15sermon, to be honest.
00:02:16And I'm sitting here, and that trigger point hit, and all of the programming in my head went
00:02:22off like an explosion, and I actually had to get up and walk out.
00:02:25I could not sit there.
00:02:27It was that bad, that intense.
00:02:29And there's a reason why it's that intense.
00:02:32Not many people know this, and I've not shared this yet on the podcast, because you're the
00:02:36first person to talk Romans 8.
00:02:39But in 1949, the Assemblies of God cut off Latter Rain, and they said, we're drawing a line
00:02:46in the sand, Latter Rain is evil.
00:02:50And when they drew that line in the sand, it started to create schisms and divisions.
00:02:55And the way that Branhamism framed it, he started focusing heavily on the no condemnation passages
00:03:03and talking about for those who have the faith.
00:03:07And then he would extrapolate that into various themes.
00:03:11But one of them was, well, to have the faith, you must have the mystery.
00:03:14And to have the mystery, we've got to go to revelations.
00:03:17We've got to go to all of the dreams that are mentioned in the Bible, the giant, all
00:03:24of these things.
00:03:24He goes there, and he tries to piece it together where it frames it to modern events, where he's
00:03:29trying to suggest the Antichrist is here now.
00:03:32You're witnessing it now.
00:03:33And therefore, those who are with me are part of the elect.
00:03:37Those who aren't, in other words, those who took the other side of the Latter Rain schism,
00:03:41they're the condemned ones.
00:03:44And with that, I'll let you kick it off.
00:03:47Well, you know, John, anything connected to eschatology piques everybody's interest.
00:03:52And we have been looking for the last few weeks at Hobart Freeman's various and divergent
00:03:58views on eschatology.
00:04:00And eschatology, for those who don't know, it's just, you know, a $20 word, a big word
00:04:06that just means a study of last things.
00:04:09So, it would concern in theology, you know, anything that's going to happen at the end
00:04:15of the age, you know, the rapture, the tribulation period, the millennium, the appearance of the
00:04:22beast or the Antichrist, the book of Revelation, the battle of Armageddon, as people call it,
00:04:30and such things.
00:04:31Those are all matters of eschatology.
00:04:36And I think anything that, for some reason, and this is probably just human nature, but
00:04:43eschatology is more interesting to people than other disciplines of theology.
00:04:49It doesn't mean it's more important.
00:04:50It's probably not as important as doctrines that concern salvation, the fall of man, the
00:04:59nature of God, and things like that.
00:05:01Those are, if you're going to rank them, maybe they should be ranked higher than eschatology,
00:05:09but eschatology deals with, you know, the number 666 and the beast, and how can people not be
00:05:17interested in things like that?
00:05:19So there are, and I know that this field of eschatology, there are hugely divergent views.
00:05:27There are various camps of people based on their belief of the timing of the rapture, whether
00:05:36the rapture happens prior to the tribulation or during it or after it.
00:05:43Um, we're kind of jumping the gun, but believe it or not, Hobart, uh, knew somebody, um, here
00:05:52comes my cat.
00:05:54Uh, she's not quite into the video yet.
00:05:57Um, he knew someone who he said was a prophet.
00:06:01I don't know if this was Kenneth Hagan.
00:06:03I don't know if it was William Branham.
00:06:05He didn't mention the name when it came to this particular topic, but he would say the Lord
00:06:10has shown one brother, there are five aspects to the rapture and by aspects, he really meant
00:06:18he always used the word aspect.
00:06:19So we couldn't be accused of teaching five raptures.
00:06:23But when you got right down to it, that's what exactly what he was teaching that there's
00:06:28a rapture of group one, then group two, then three, then four, and then five.
00:06:32So that's jumping the guns, getting a little ahead of ourselves, but all of this business
00:06:37of the return of Christ, which is, um, a doctrine for eschatology and of the rapture, just, it's
00:06:46hugely interesting to people.
00:06:49Um, the, the, the weightier matters of doctrine don't seem to be the issues that attract the
00:06:58most YouTube views.
00:06:59You do something on the timing of the rapture, like this guy is a heretic because of his view
00:07:05on the rapture and you'll get a lot of views.
00:07:07I don't think we even got to this point in our earlier discussions about the imminency
00:07:14that Dr. Freeman taught that it could happen, you know, at any moment.
00:07:19Um, but there was a book that came out in the 1980s and you probably, this was before your
00:07:27time, but you probably have heard of it.
00:07:2988 reasons why the rapture was going to happen in 1988.
00:07:35And it just, I mean, it just lit a fire and you could tell from the title.
00:07:42I mean, surely that is nothing but clickbait as they say, which probably wasn't a term back
00:07:48in 1988, but it's just like what advertisers would do.
00:07:53But here was a man who had done all of this research supposed to be a brilliant man and
00:08:00he had come up with 88 reasons.
00:08:03And I don't remember this book back then.
00:08:05I've only heard of it and learned about it since then, because I would never, I mean,
00:08:10even as a teenager, I never would have followed anything like that because it was just too
00:08:15convenient that there could happen to be 88 reasons why the rapture would happen in September
00:08:21of 1988 and, and, you know, what are we three or four decades removed from then?
00:08:27So that was obviously wrong.
00:08:29And when it didn't happen, then he wrote another book that would be in 89 and then another book
00:08:34that would be in 93.
00:08:35You know, they always, but people have never learned, have they?
00:08:40I mean, people will, there is a, I think he's a false prophet.
00:08:45This guy going around named Jonathan Kahn, he's a Jewish, Messianic Jewish prophet.
00:08:51He's always dressed in black.
00:08:53He's on TBN interviews a lot.
00:08:57And he's always talking about just really mystical, prophetic things.
00:09:04And it always has to do with the Antichrist and the throne of Satan and the mark of the
00:09:10beast.
00:09:11And he's got thousands of people that follow that.
00:09:16So eschatology does matter.
00:09:19I'm not saying that it doesn't matter.
00:09:21Eschatology does matter.
00:09:23Um, your view of the rapture, your view of the millennium, your views on these things do
00:09:30matter, but I just don't know that they matter as much as some of these weightier matters
00:09:37that people really aren't that concerned about.
00:09:40So here's the thing to understand, the names keep changing, but notice what doesn't change.
00:09:46Every generation discovers some scripture that was secretly describing them and they
00:09:50say, this is it, this is us.
00:09:52And then they point to whatever is their conflict and they say, that's it.
00:09:56See, Satan's rising.
00:09:57And everybody who's involved in that conflict, they start to feel familiar with it because
00:10:02it's affecting them.
00:10:03And what's odd about this is if you think of Christianity worldwide, often that conflict
00:10:09doesn't impact Christians in other nations.
00:10:11So they're like, well, why do we care if this is happening in America or whatever country
00:10:16that this happens in?
00:10:17But that's the way it works because as humans, we like to see a conflict.
00:10:23Think of a movie, watch a, go pay for a ticket and watch a movie where you've got this thriller
00:10:28and there's no conflict in it.
00:10:31It doesn't, you can't even call it a thriller because it's not, it doesn't contain a single
00:10:35thrill.
00:10:35You have to have the good versus evil, the good and bad, all of this.
00:10:39Well, that's what they try to push as Christianity, but it's really rebranding entertainment as
00:10:45Christianity when you do that.
00:10:47And that's what was happening here.
00:10:50So you mentioned the five raptures.
00:10:52There are people who try to study what you and I talk about and some of my other hosts
00:10:56and say, well, doctrinally, this is impossible.
00:10:58This guy didn't learn from this other guy because he taught doctrine A and the other guy
00:11:03taught doctrine B.
00:11:04But it's all the same framework.
00:11:06They're looking, they're looking for actual theology, but many of these people really
00:11:10didn't have theology.
00:11:11They had entertainment.
00:11:12And Branham taught the five dimensions, which is slightly different than Hobart's five
00:11:18raptures, but he taught five dimensions.
00:11:21And me sitting there as a kid, hearing Romans 8, hearing Nebuchadnezzar's dream, all of these
00:11:25things that you're talking about, I was trying to piece together, okay, well, what are the
00:11:30other dimensions?
00:11:31What do they look like?
00:11:33And in my head, I actually have a sci-fi movie playing out in service, in the church, because
00:11:38they're pitching to me entertainment, but they're using Bible verses.
00:11:42And so I'm connecting that entertainment with the Bible.
00:11:45And what I grew up with was actually entertainment.
00:11:47It wasn't the gospel at all.
00:11:49But after I left, I realized, you know, if this were a movie, I wouldn't even pay for
00:11:54a ticket to this.
00:11:55It wasn't that good of entertainment.
00:11:57Well, you know, and I would always argue that eschatology does matter.
00:12:02But I think what we have learned is, even though eschatology does matter, your views about
00:12:07these things, I think every single cult group, even if it's a conservative Christian cult type
00:12:16group, every one of these cult groups, they have their nuanced, narrow, aberrant view,
00:12:24you know, that is non-orthodox.
00:12:27And that's what makes it so attractive to the followers.
00:12:30If they just taught a traditional pre-tribulation rapture or post-tribulation, whichever you want
00:12:37to pick, that all of God's children who belong to Christ, they're all going to be raptured.
00:12:42None of them do that.
00:12:44None of these cult splinter groups do that.
00:12:47They have to isolate.
00:12:49They have to separate their group and the people that agree with them, the elite people, you know,
00:12:56the overcomers, the man-child, however you want to name them, whatever you want to name
00:13:02them, they have to separate them from just the mass of regular Christians and Christianity.
00:13:10And when they do that, then it does become very attractive for their followers.
00:13:15So we're going to start out early in our interview today playing a little small clip from Dr.
00:13:21Freeman's teaching in the book of Revelation.
00:13:24He had an 11-tape series, if I remember correctly, he had 11-tape series on the book of Revelation.
00:13:30He taught this in a home setting, so it was in a woman's basement or her living room.
00:13:38And we're going to play a little clip from chapter 13, his teaching on Revelation 13.
00:13:44And so for the people that don't know, Revelation 13 is a chapter that introduces us to the two
00:13:51beasts, the beast that arises from the sea and the beast that arises from the earth.
00:13:57And they're later named, at least the second one is later named in the book in chapters 16 and 20
00:14:04or 16 and 19 as the false prophet.
00:14:07So you have on your hands here probably the Antichrist and the false prophet.
00:14:12So that is, you know, a fabulously interesting and desirable chapter in Revelation for people
00:14:19who camp out in eschatology.
00:14:23And that chapter ends with, you know, the most interesting reference and the most cryptic
00:14:29reference of all.
00:14:31And that is this reference to the number of that beast.
00:14:35And of course, we're not getting into an interpretation of that at all.
00:14:40But what I, what is fascinating is to take yourself back to 1970.
00:14:46This is when Hobart taught this message.
00:14:51This is long before the days of personal computers.
00:14:54I mean, everyone had long before the days of cell phones, everyone had a street address and
00:15:02they had a telephone number and you had a social security number and there weren't that many
00:15:07people.
00:15:08I mean, how many people even lived in the United States in 1970 versus, you know, we're almost
00:15:1460 years later now versus the number, the population of the United States today.
00:15:20Um, but we're going to listen to this clip and then we'll, we can talk about it, John, but
00:15:25it is from the 54 minute, 20 second mark.
00:15:29It's very short.
00:15:30It's only 45 seconds to the 55 minute and 47 second mark.
00:15:36Now he causes all both great and small.
00:15:38We're told here to receive a mark.
00:15:42So you need to buy and sell.
00:15:45I don't know what the mark is.
00:15:46No one else does, but it doesn't have to be anything complicated.
00:15:50It could merely be your social security number.
00:15:53That, uh, you notice how gradually, maybe you don't notice, I'll tell you, that everything
00:15:57is now being reduced to your social security number.
00:16:00The time can come when this, this can be the mark you have to take, that you can either
00:16:06buy yourself without it.
00:16:07And the charge will have to be made that those who are going to follow Antichrist will always
00:16:11have to give the number and show it.
00:16:13It could be written on, it says the forehead or the hand, literally, you, uh, there's no problem
00:16:19with that.
00:16:19It could be enveloply marked upon you, like tattoo.
00:16:23You either take the mark, because without your social security number right now, you
00:16:27can't do a lot of things.
00:16:28You know that.
00:16:29And so it's a very simple process to buy everything.
00:16:32If you have Blue Cross, isn't that now your social security number?
00:16:36And your driver's license is now your social security number?
00:16:39And everything is coming down to your social security number.
00:16:42They're not going to have a thousand numbers like they've got now.
00:16:44Even your telephone number will probably eventually be your social security number.
00:16:48So you'll be numbering number.
00:16:50It's taking this mark and this number.
00:16:52And of course, like you can't do some things now without giving that number already.
00:16:57You're already seeing how easy it is to bring this into full focus when Antichrist appears.
00:17:03So this should put a smile on people's face, having just heard that Hobart's talking about
00:17:10people's social security numbers and because people didn't have many numbers, you know, back
00:17:15then you didn't, like I said, you had a street address, a front phone number, and you had an
00:17:18SS number.
00:17:19You didn't have, um, uh, passwords and codes to all of these different apps and cell phones.
00:17:26And the things that we have today are so incredibly complicated.
00:17:30So you have to put yourself back in the pre-computer, pre-cell phone days.
00:17:35So a social security number, that's like, that's really secret.
00:17:41That's a big time number.
00:17:44And what Hobart says, we, if you, we just heard that clip, he will first of all say, I'm not
00:17:52saying that the mark of the beast is your social security number.
00:17:55And then he went right on to say that that mark of the beast is probably your social security
00:18:01number.
00:18:02And then he goes on to say that your telephone number.
00:18:07And he, you know, he says, you know, social security number, that's important.
00:18:10That's an important number.
00:18:11And he goes on to say that your telephone number is probably going to become your social security
00:18:17number and your driver's license is also probably going to become your social security number.
00:18:23And I'm thinking like, what?
00:18:26No, your phone number is never going to become your social security number.
00:18:31Your phone number was in your house.
00:18:33It was a landline shared by everybody in the house.
00:18:36All of whom had different social security numbers, but he has this weird, you know, John,
00:18:42on this mystical view, like six, six, six, I can't quite figure that out what that is, but
00:18:48I know it is cryptic.
00:18:49I know it's mysterious.
00:18:50I know it's deep and dark and esoteric, and we all want to know what it is.
00:18:56And so, you know, that number six, six, six is three digits.
00:19:02It's not the nine digits of your social security number, but he somehow, I think was wanting to
00:19:08be on maybe the cutting edge of the true interpretation.
00:19:14Now, I think later in his life, he probably would have, you know, poo-pooed what he said
00:19:18on this tape, but he never did go back.
00:19:20He never did take it back.
00:19:23And it is, it is, it is just so odd to think of that within the time context when Dr.
00:19:32Freeman
00:19:32was teaching that because that would have been the most important number in your life.
00:19:39And it would have been a somewhat hidden secret number.
00:19:43You don't give that number out to everyone else, but how possibly could your telephone
00:19:50number and your driver's license number and the mark of the beast all become your social
00:19:58security number because we all have a different one.
00:20:01And yet that number in Revelation 13 appears to be, you know, we're not going down the path
00:20:08of trying to interpret that, but appears to be the same number for everyone.
00:20:12So what an interesting historical tidbit for Dr. Freeman.
00:20:17We've had conversations and you are familiar with how the mind works when people have mental
00:20:23health issues.
00:20:24We've had offline discussions because I, I have family members that have issues and I've
00:20:30studied it quite a bit.
00:20:31That's why I'm fascinated with psychology.
00:20:33There is a problem that exists with people who develop narcissistic personality disorder
00:20:40where they become the hero and there must be a villain.
00:20:45And that theme, if you look across the different variants of mental health issues, that theme resides
00:20:51in a few of those different mental health issues and disorders.
00:20:55But most of these ministers, whenever they go down this pathway, they start to develop
00:21:01narcissistic tendencies.
00:21:03It's not that they're narcissists.
00:21:04I'm not going to psychologically brand them, but they get the tendencies because if you are
00:21:09going to tell the people that you have the answer, you are the Superman for the elect,
00:21:15well, there has to be a villain.
00:21:17And you as Superman, you have to know who that is.
00:21:19So you start throwing out names and numbers.
00:21:22And here's the interesting part.
00:21:24I have worn many, many hats in my years of IT.
00:21:28One of them was database administration.
00:21:31I managed the databases for hundreds of hospitals and doctors' offices and had to go through
00:21:38all of their details and try to make them all match out so that the software worked.
00:21:44Picture this.
00:21:45Your name is Cheno Ross.
00:21:47I don't know your middle name, but say it's Alfred.
00:21:49Cheno Alfred Ross.
00:21:52I missed it, apparently.
00:21:54Well, how many Cheno Alfred Rosses are there out there?
00:21:57I'm John Collins.
00:21:58I have a common name.
00:21:59I already know that there are several John Collinses in this area.
00:22:02There's some who even have my middle name.
00:22:04You have to have what's called a unique identifier.
00:22:08And so people have determined that even that is not, you can't just use a number because
00:22:13eventually you're going to run out of numbers.
00:22:16So they created what's called a global unique identifier and you have different ways to index
00:22:22and categorize people.
00:22:24The problem is whenever these people started to do this, they were riding on the fringes
00:22:31of the fundamentalist movement where it was very, very popular and the audience loved
00:22:37it if you condemn something that involved change.
00:22:40So they introduced the social security number.
00:22:43Instantly, that's the mark of the beast because now we have a number.
00:22:45But to the people who are managing that database, it was a database even before electronics,
00:22:51they had to have a unique way of identifying the people.
00:22:54Otherwise, it just simply doesn't work.
00:22:56But they wrote on that.
00:22:58They went to the telephone numbers.
00:22:59What's really funny, Hobart Freeman himself and others who believe that nonsense about now
00:23:05you've got this telephone number, they completely overlooked the days like in Andy Griffith,
00:23:11whatever they would call the operator.
00:23:12And they had a different indexing system back then.
00:23:15And they realized that indexing system was not large enough.
00:23:18So they had to redo the indexing system.
00:23:21So was that the mark of the beast?
00:23:22I don't know.
00:23:23But what it is, they try to find the enemy and say that they alone have the insight.
00:23:28And that will match all of these passages that are talking about the Antichrist that is to
00:23:33come.
00:23:33And if you take that branding, you're out of the elect.
00:23:36And we know how so many people in the past, if they happen to have been a part of an
00:23:42evangelical
00:23:42church and they move from one house to another and their new street address just happened to
00:23:49be 666 West Main Street, that they just couldn't handle that.
00:23:56They just couldn't handle that, even though the passage in God's Word clearly says it will
00:24:02not be on your mailbox.
00:24:03It will be on your forehead or the back of your hand.
00:24:06So you don't have to worry about what is on your mailbox.
00:24:10But people, that's why this whole field of eschatology is so fascinating.
00:24:15People just have all of these built-in fears and phobias.
00:24:19Dr. Freeman Hobart definitely came from what is known as a pre-millennial background, another
00:24:28$20 word that just has reference to any type of millennial, either pre-, post- or all-millennial,
00:24:36simply has reference to when you believe Christ will return with respect to the millennium.
00:24:44So if you see, for instance, a book of Revelation as being more or less written in chronological
00:24:51order, even though there is definitely recapitulation in that book, if you understand it to be in
00:24:57chronological order, then you would see chapter 19 and the events it records coming before
00:25:04chapter 20.
00:25:05And chapter 19 is the overthrow of Jesus' enemies, and chapter 20 is the establishment of the millennium.
00:25:12So Hobart was definitely a pre-millennial, and more to the point, a dispensational pre-millennial.
00:25:20And so some of the views that would be characteristic of Dr. Freeman and pre-millennialism would be
00:25:29they would see that the world is going to continue to get more evil.
00:25:37It's not going to get better, and it's not going to stay static.
00:25:40It's going to continue to grow worse.
00:25:43Satan's influence will spread.
00:25:46Population will grow, and the number of unbelievers will grow.
00:25:51And it's often referred to as a pessimistic view of the end times.
00:25:57I don't think any pre-millennialists would say that it's pessimistic.
00:26:00They would say it's realistic.
00:26:02That Paul, for instance, in 2 Timothy 3, said in the last days, perilous times will come, and men will
00:26:09be lovers of their own selves, and covetous, and boasters, and proud, and disobedient to parents, and all of that
00:26:15list that Paul gives us there.
00:26:17But what was so interesting, John, about Hobart's pre-millennialism, and I happen to be pre-millennial myself, but what
00:26:26was interesting about his pre-millennialism is he has this small element of post-millennialism in it.
00:26:35There is a strange twist at the end of his millennial view, and so what post-millennialists believe, post-mill
00:26:43people, is that the world would continue to get better, not worse.
00:26:48I mean, diametrically opposed to pre-mill eschatology.
00:26:53You've got two different belief systems entirely.
00:26:57The post-mill people felt that through the spread of the gospel and the influence of Christianity, that nations would
00:27:07turn to Christ, that leaders would turn to Christianity, and that the world would get better.
00:27:13Hobart completely rejected that.
00:27:15Let me be clear.
00:27:16You know, he was definitely pre-millennial, but he held room for this small element of the church, namely himself
00:27:25and his group of overcomers.
00:27:27To get better and better and better and go out with a bang and help, this brings us to Romans
00:27:358, help bring about the restoration of all things.
00:27:40So he, in his theology, even though he was pre-millennial, he had room for an elite group of special
00:27:50people who had a special anointing, who had special gifting.
00:27:55And they would help write the world, you know, the world that's turned upside down, they would help make everything
00:28:03good and right again.
00:28:05And he based that on a very, very weird interpretation of Romans 8.
00:28:11And I'm specifically referring to, say, I'm looking in my Bible, John Romans 8, verse 17 through, I don't know,
00:28:23verse 22, something like that, where there's no doubt about it.
00:28:28We do have the phrase, the manifestation of the sons of God.
00:28:32So when I, when I first heard that, you know, I've often thought back how I process these things in
00:28:41my early Christianity.
00:28:44I will have to confess, it was new to me.
00:28:46I had not heard that phrase, manifested sons, or the manifestation of the sons of God, or, you know, the
00:28:53other catchphrases in that chapter.
00:28:55You said, you know, there are catchphrases like, this groaning creation that's going to be delivered from the bondage of
00:29:02corruption.
00:29:03Those are, those are words that are, that Paul actually wrote in Romans 8, but those become the catchphrases that
00:29:11the whole theology is built on.
00:29:15I was a new Christian, you know, I'd only been a Christian for a couple of years when I first
00:29:19heard Dr. Freeman.
00:29:20So I'm sure I had read my whole Bible through from cover to cover at least once, maybe twice.
00:29:29But I didn't know the Bible then, like I know it now, 50 years later.
00:29:34So when I hear phrases now, I can almost tell you around where that is in the Bible, just because
00:29:41I'm so much more familiar with it.
00:29:43So this phrase, manifested sons, or the manifestation of the sons of God, or delivering this groaning creation, that was
00:29:54all new to me.
00:29:55I had not heard those phrases in the circles in which I traveled.
00:30:00You know, as I said, I barely knew my Bible.
00:30:02I'm sure I had read the whole book of Romans.
00:30:05I'm sure I had read all of Romans 8 probably two or three times by the time I was 17
00:30:11years old.
00:30:12But hearing that phrase was, and hearing it in the context that Dr. Freeman taught it, I mean, it's, it's
00:30:21a biblical phrase.
00:30:22We don't have to shy away from talking about the manifestation of the sons of God, because Paul clearly teaches
00:30:28that.
00:30:28But he does not teach Hobart's view of that.
00:30:31Hobart's view of that was so different and out there and unusual.
00:30:39And we're going to get into that as we progress here this morning, John, what his view of it was
00:30:45versus what Paul's view of it was.
00:30:48And, you know, I don't, it wasn't, it did not become a huge part of my theology like other parts
00:30:57of his teaching did.
00:30:58And I, although I did believe it, I did accept Dr. Freeman's interpretation, but I do know that one of
00:31:07the things that did bother me was the chapter didn't say that God's sons would be manifested in exactly the
00:31:16same way Hobart did.
00:31:19But, of course, when you're young, you just say, well, obviously, I'm just not very smart.
00:31:24You know, the reason I can't see it the way he's saying it is because he's a lot older and
00:31:29he studied his Bible a lot more than I have.
00:31:31And so I'm sure with more study, I will be able to see it the way he sees it.
00:31:36And I never really did.
00:31:37But I didn't let it bother me, as I said, because this business of the manifestation of the sons of
00:31:43God or the manifested sons of God was not, it just wasn't real germane to my Christian living.
00:31:51I was very interested in Bible study, in all of Bible study.
00:31:55I wasn't just hung up on a couple of doctrines.
00:31:58You could have told me we're going to study First Chronicles.
00:32:01And if you were a good teacher and could explain some things to me in First Chronicles that I did
00:32:06not know or understand, I would have signed up for the class.
00:32:09I was really just interested in learning my Bible, which probably helped me just not get hung up on that
00:32:15particular phrase and doctrine.
00:32:17Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter
00:32:25reign, charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
00:32:31You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org.
00:32:38On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
00:32:46John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
00:32:52You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements.
00:32:58If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the
00:33:05top.
00:33:05And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or
00:33:11watching.
00:33:11On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
00:33:17I had this conversation just yesterday with Bob Scott, and I fully intend to have the same conversation with multiple
00:33:24people to get multiple views.
00:33:26And some people won't touch it with a 10-foot pole, and that's okay.
00:33:30I'll let them skip.
00:33:31You might do it.
00:33:32I don't know.
00:33:32But we had a conversation on the historical biblical precedent for false gods because it's going to tie exactly to
00:33:42what we're talking about here and where Hobart Freeman and William Branham, all these guys, went with this.
00:33:47Historically speaking, and I'm not talking theology at all, just simply historically in the Bible, if you look at the
00:33:55Hebrew words that are used, and I use the interlinear Bible.
00:33:59Anybody can do this on BibleGateway.com or whatever.
00:34:02There's a period of time early in the Bible, early in the Old Testament, when they believed in a divine
00:34:08council.
00:34:08And it says God sits, basically Elohim sits in the council of El.
00:34:13And so the biblical version of what the Hebrews believed was very similar to some of the other ancient cultures.
00:34:20Later on, they came to realize that, wait a minute, these people are praying to these false gods, and they're
00:34:25powerless.
00:34:26They're doing nothing to the extent that, I think it's Isaiah.
00:34:29He mocks them openly and says, you just watch this guy cut the tree down and make an idol with
00:34:35it, and you can tell that he made it.
00:34:36It's not a god.
00:34:37It is powerless.
00:34:39And it goes on and on to, over time, they come to realize that there's only one god, Yahweh, and
00:34:44everybody else who says they have a god, they don't.
00:34:47They're believing in a false thing, and we need to come to the realization of this.
00:34:51The interesting thing, because it ties back to Romans 8, what the Lateran movement tried to do was they tried
00:34:58to re-empower the false gods.
00:35:00There's this weird statistic.
00:35:02I don't know if you've looked up this or not, but the majority of Christians, if you ask them, are
00:35:08there any other gods besides the Christian god, the majority of Christians will say no.
00:35:14They'll say, there is no other god.
00:35:15God is the only god.
00:35:17But in the Pentecostal charismatic movement, you'll find, especially among the fringe groups, they do believe in false gods.
00:35:23The false gods have power, and you might accidentally get sucked in by one of them.
00:35:28So they have actually re-empowered these false gods, and that was done away with years before Christ even came
00:35:36to the earth.
00:35:36So it's a very interesting conversation I do want to have with multiple people, but where it comes into play
00:35:44specifically is the manifested sons of God.
00:35:46What these guys did, they loved to take the King James English and use words that the average person of
00:35:55that era did not use, such as manifestation.
00:35:59If you were to go into a church, any church, I don't care if it's Pentecostal or not, and say,
00:36:03were you saved and are you a child of God?
00:36:07The vast majority raised their hand.
00:36:09And then they will say, do you remember the day when you stood up and you made a visible outward
00:36:14expression of this?
00:36:15And they'll say, yes.
00:36:17Did the church recognize that this was a great thing?
00:36:19Yes.
00:36:21Well, what they don't understand is that is a manifested son of God, the son and daughter of God.
00:36:26But because it didn't say sons and daughters of God, manifested sons and daughters, manifestation, the definition, actually, I'm reading
00:36:34it right here, an outward or visible expression of something abstract, the practice of focusing thoughts, visualization, positive thinking, to
00:36:41bring the goal into reality.
00:36:43So you were saved.
00:36:45You brought yourself as a Christian.
00:36:47You manifested yourself before the congregation through baptism, whatever was your event.
00:36:52And then suddenly now you're a son and daughter of God.
00:36:55You fulfilled the passage, right?
00:36:58You can take that same thought and you can apply it to the passages about the false gods in the
00:37:05Ten Commandments.
00:37:06It says, you shall have no other God before me.
00:37:09It doesn't mean that the other God even exists.
00:37:11It says, you're not going to have the other God before me.
00:37:14And you can clearly read later in the Old Testament and throughout the New Testament, there are no other gods.
00:37:18So if you take that line of thinking and try to visualize a person who is narcissistic enough to say,
00:37:26I'm going to tell the people that there are false gods, I'm the hero who can help them conquer those
00:37:32false gods.
00:37:32They might accidentally catch a false god if they don't stick with what I say and ignore everybody else.
00:37:38They're empowering the evil for the purposes of lifting themselves up.
00:37:43And when I realized this, my whole world changed.
00:37:46I began to realize that I don't have to fear these things, man.
00:37:50It's already all done.
00:37:52I can look to the things that it gives me comfort in and ignore all of the things that they
00:37:58tried to scare me with.
00:37:59Well, definitely every time he went to Romans 8 and the manifestation of the sons of God passage, it was
00:38:05always in, you know, an end time cryptic context.
00:38:10It was always in the context of, you know, the end is upon us.
00:38:16The end is here.
00:38:17We've talked about this in some earlier podcasts.
00:38:20You mentioned earlier in this discussion, John, Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
00:38:26I just happen to have a quote we want to play from Dr. Freeman's teaching on Daniel chapter 2.
00:38:35This also was done in 1970.
00:38:39So, again, we're almost 60 years ago.
00:38:43So, the last few weeks, if people remember, we have talked about Hobart's views on Israel.
00:38:50Israel became a nation in 1948.
00:38:54And by the way, speaking of 1948, that's why the guy came up with 1988 as the date of the
00:39:01rapture because it's a 40-year generation.
00:39:04So, you know, 40 years, you know, this generation will not pass away until everything's been fulfilled.
00:39:10That's why he selected 1988.
00:39:13Then when Hobart saw Israel, the Jewish people get most of their capital city back in the Six-Day War
00:39:20in June of 1967, you know, then he's just, I mean, he is just, he's living in that moment.
00:39:27He had only entered the charismatic movement a year prior in 1966.
00:39:32So, when the Jewish people get Jerusalem back in 1967 and then for the next couple of years after that,
00:39:40I mean, he is riding hot and heavy.
00:39:43Luke 21, 24 said, whenever that happens, times of the Gentiles are over.
00:39:48Lift your eyes and look up because your redemption draws nigh.
00:39:53And so, along with his teaching came this incredible sense of urgency.
00:40:00You don't have very much time left.
00:40:04So, this is a great example of that from a message entitled, Nebuchadnezzar's Dream, the Book of Daniel, Chapter 2,
00:40:16done in 1970, from 8 minutes and 36 seconds.
00:40:23To 9 minutes and 20 seconds.
00:40:27Three years ago now, you saw, for the first time in 19 centuries, that prophecy fulfilled.
00:40:34The times of the Gentiles ended in 1967, friends.
00:40:38And we don't even know that history is now closing.
00:40:42We talk like we've got 30, 40 more years and all of that.
00:40:46You don't have 30, 40 more years.
00:40:49There's every reason to believe you don't have any more than the 70s.
00:40:53And we only say that.
00:40:55That isn't setting dates, of course.
00:40:57But God has shown too many.
00:40:59A calendar with 70 on it and things like the pages fluttering and that's all you see is you go
00:41:05up to about 77 or something.
00:41:06That's it.
00:41:07Now, that isn't setting dates.
00:41:08If he wants to go on up in the 80s, that's his business.
00:41:10But the end is here.
00:41:11I think I have talked about this a little in the previous podcast without actually playing just this clip.
00:41:19And there are others.
00:41:20You know, you can find plenty of excerpts early on, the late 60s, early 1970s, for Dr. Freeman saying, this
00:41:30is it.
00:41:30So what we just heard is he's telling these people, he's telling them the very thing Jesus said, don't, don't
00:41:37tell people this is the time.
00:41:39He's telling them, he said, we don't have 30 or 40 years left.
00:41:45I'm kind of reading and paraphrasing because I have this quote written out.
00:41:50He said, there's every reason to believe you don't have any more than the 70s.
00:41:57It's pretty easy to say in 1970 because you've got all the way to 79 to be proven wrong or
00:42:06right.
00:42:08And we only say that and then he interrupts himself.
00:42:13That's not setting dates, of course.
00:42:15But God has shown too many a calendar with 70 on it and things like the pages fluttering.
00:42:26And that's all you see.
00:42:29You go up to about 77 and that's it.
00:42:34And that isn't setting dates.
00:42:36Well, if that's not setting dates, then what is that doing?
00:42:40He said, that's not setting dates.
00:42:42If he wants to go up into the 80s, that's his business.
00:42:46But the end is here.
00:42:49So you're sitting in someone's basement in 1970 hearing, you know, he's first of all giving you his interpretation of
00:42:58what happened in the six day war, which he does in the first six and seven, six or seven minutes
00:43:05of this, by the way, of this same message.
00:43:07If people want to go and listen to it, he's he's telling them the Jews have their capital city back.
00:43:13The times of the Gentiles, when are they going to end?
00:43:15Well, they end it.
00:43:16He said they ended about two years ago.
00:43:18And then he said three years ago.
00:43:20This is 1970, isn't it?
00:43:22That's how you know the date of a lot of these messages.
00:43:24He will tell you the date.
00:43:26So he is so that is so fresh to him, John.
00:43:29He's so excited about that.
00:43:30He knows it's the end.
00:43:32He's just received the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
00:43:35You know, everything is going downhill from here on out.
00:43:38And can you imagine sitting in that group of those people listening to this former seminary professor tell you that
00:43:47many people have seen a calendar of the 1970s and the pages are fluttering, becoming less and less visible.
00:43:55And they only go up to about 1977.
00:43:58I first heard Dr.
00:44:00Freeman in 1976.
00:44:02So I first hear this message in late 1976.
00:44:07And, you know, what am I thinking?
00:44:09But, you know, and I'm still in high school and my parents are insistent that I go to college.
00:44:15And I was not going to go to college because that's just a waste of time.
00:44:19Why go to college?
00:44:20Jesus is coming back.
00:44:22Thankfully, I did go to college and did get an undergraduate degree at the University of Mississippi where my parents
00:44:29went to school.
00:44:30And by the way, John, my middle name is Delee, not Alfred.
00:44:35It's got two capital letters.
00:44:36It's a French name.
00:44:37It was my mother's maiden name.
00:44:40So I have an unusual name, Cheno Delee Ross, not John Collins.
00:44:45I have an unusual.
00:44:47So you don't have to give me a special identifier or number.
00:44:51You know, I'm probably the only Cheno Delee Ross that's in the world living today.
00:44:58So it was very scary for me.
00:45:00Scary but exciting to hear that I only have a year or two and the second advent will happen.
00:45:06And so when he goes to Romans chapter 8, he's going there with this idea in mind.
00:45:13And so it was all about preparation, John.
00:45:17You know, that's the big roll call.
00:45:19Hobart was was best known for he became best known for his faith teaching and then more specifically his anti
00:45:29-doctor, anti-medicine, live, die, sink or swim.
00:45:33You must trust him.
00:45:35And hundreds of people took him up on that and died.
00:45:37And he took himself up on that and died as well.
00:45:40He became best known and best remembered for his faith teaching and for his anti-medicine and anti-medical science
00:45:52teaching.
00:45:53But his whole goal, the goal of that teaching, the goal of his faith teaching, the goal of his what
00:46:00he called the crucified life and the deeper life and all of this.
00:46:04The goal of all of that was to get prepared so that you could be a part of the manifestation
00:46:11of the sons of God.
00:46:13So even though faith, healing, prayer, intercession, gifts of the spirit, deliverance, you know, all of that, all of that
00:46:22was important.
00:46:23All of that was just foundational to get yourself, according to Dr. Freeman's theology, to get yourself in the position
00:46:32where you could be ready for Romans chapter eight.
00:46:37So it's like Romans eight.
00:46:40And, you know, he would go a few years and say, you know, I know some of you are asking,
00:46:45when is all of this going to happen?
00:46:47In other words, when is this Romans eight, the manifestation of the sons of God going to happen?
00:46:52You know, some people were probably their patience was wearing thin.
00:46:56We've heard enough faith.
00:46:58We've heard enough gifts of the Holy Spirit.
00:47:00When when is the big bang going to really happen?
00:47:03It's like it was a carrot on a stick, John, that you just dangle.
00:47:07I mean, here we are 50 years later.
00:47:10It hasn't happened yet.
00:47:11Not in the way they said it was going to happen.
00:47:13So it's like a carrot on a stick.
00:47:15It's like when I was a child, I was born in Memphis and raised in South Memphis.
00:47:21It's not very far from Graceland.
00:47:23We used to go sit on Elvis's front porch as kids and get our pictures taken because that Elvis wasn't
00:47:30a big deal.
00:47:30He wasn't as big a deal in the 60s as he became post 77 when he died.
00:47:37But I was born and raised in Memphis, and we didn't have we didn't have horse racing like we have
00:47:42here in Kentucky.
00:47:43But if you would go across the bridge from Memphis to what is known as West Memphis, that's actually not
00:47:50in Tennessee.
00:47:51That is in Arkansas across the Mississippi River.
00:47:54There was a dog track.
00:47:56My parents were not gambling people.
00:47:58We didn't have enough money to gamble anyway.
00:48:00They never went to the dog track, but we knew people who would they'd say we went to the track
00:48:04and they meant the dog track.
00:48:06And those were greyhounds.
00:48:08And they would they would chase after this little bunny rabbit that would pop up on the course and run
00:48:15and would always, for some reason, outrun those greyhound dogs.
00:48:20Those greyhounds could really get up and fly.
00:48:23And when they thought they were getting close to the rabbit, you know, the mechanical rabbit, whoever's operating him would
00:48:29just goose him a little and he would just take off a little faster.
00:48:33That's what this whole business of waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God has been.
00:48:39It's dangling that carrot, putting that rabbit out in front of all of these greyhounds in these churches.
00:48:47And so you've got people today who are still Freemanites, Freeman followers, still waiting for, you know, the carrot on
00:48:56the stick and the rabbit in front of the greyhounds, still waiting for Romans 8 to happen in their life.
00:49:01They say the definition of insanity is to try to continue doing the same thing over and over again and
00:49:07expect a different result.
00:49:09If people understood that that's what this movement was doing from its inception, I mean, you go back to the
00:49:15early days of Pentecostalism, right at the Azusa Street Revival, they were saying the same things.
00:49:20You can actually, even in the newspapers, you can find some quotes of their sermons.
00:49:24They thought the world was going to end right there in 1907, 1908.
00:49:28Well, when Branham talked about Nebuchadnezzar's dream, at that time, the big fear was the communist scare, Russia.
00:49:36And he says, this Nebuchadnezzar's dream, now I have the secret.
00:49:40You guys listen.
00:49:41He said, Eisenhower means iron and Khrushchev means clay.
00:49:48I grew up years later, after Branham's dead, hearing sermons about how Eisenhower meant iron.
00:49:55As if that mattered to me in the slightest, the pastor is actually just parroting, like a broken record, what
00:50:00Branham had said, not knowing that Branham himself later changed it to, instead of Khrushchev, it was Rome.
00:50:07He basically just redirected what it was because he had to have the answer of who the Antichrist was going
00:50:12to be and how all this would play out.
00:50:14The funny part about all of that is, Khrushchev doesn't actually mean clay, nor does Eisenhower.
00:50:21Khrushchev, if I remember right, it means some kind of a dung beetle or something like this.
00:50:24And, you know, Khrushchev, he was dead and gone, so why are they still preaching about it?
00:50:30Today, in 2026, they're preaching the iron and clay Khrushchev.
00:50:35It just doesn't make sense.
00:50:36It shows you that there's something wrong.
00:50:38The people, they hear these things and they believe them, but they shut off all critical thinking, and so they
00:50:43get stuck like a zombie in this world that they can never escape from.
00:50:47It's really, really sad when the cult leader dies, like Branham, like Hobart Freeman, because those who are still stuck
00:50:54in that zombie mode, they really struggle to get out of it.
00:50:58And they're saying things that everybody around them, like if I were to say this at work, people would laugh
00:51:02at me.
00:51:03Do you not know that Khrushchev died years ago?
00:51:05Do you not know the Iron Curtain came down, all of this stuff?
00:51:08Yes, Russia is a problem today, but it's a different problem than the one that was given in the prophecies.
00:51:14That's the point I'm trying to make, and they're stuck like zombies, and I can say this with absolute fact
00:51:21because I was stuck like a zombie in this, and people just need to snap out of it and wake
00:51:25up and realize that you have to engage critical thinking, or you will believe something until you die that could
00:51:31be completely false.
00:51:33And worse than that, not only ruin your life and others, lead people to their deaths, like you're talking about
00:51:38with Hobart Freeman.
00:51:39And John, I had never heard that about Eisenhower and Khrushchev, but it's interesting how just the pronunciation of a
00:51:49word, if it is in any way similar to something in the King James Bible, and I guess he's thinking
00:51:55Eisenhower, like the Eisen, iron, you know, the feet are made apart, iron, hyzer, and clay, Khrushchev clay, something like
00:52:08that.
00:52:09It reminds me of Hobart was, he didn't have ever said that, but he was the same with Gog and
00:52:14Magog and Meshach and Tubal in Ezekiel chapter 28, because Meshach, you could see in that maybe Meshach is Moscow,
00:52:28and Tubal is Tubalisk, another, you know, Soviet Union Russian city.
00:52:35But good grief, you know, the Old Testament is written in Hebrew, now we have this in King James, Elizabethan
00:52:45English, doesn't mean that there's any connection, because there may be to our ears between Meshach and Moscow, there really
00:52:54isn't.
00:52:55They just both start with an M, and the same with Tubal and Tubalisk, and the same with Eisenhower and
00:53:03iron, because there's some similarity, we hear it in our, doesn't mean there's any connection at all.
00:53:09But these guys were expert at pulling these things out.
00:53:12Well, and the funny part about it is, if I remember correctly, and this is something I studied years ago,
00:53:18you have to go look it up, but if I remember correctly, Eisenhower actually did come from that root.
00:53:22But, if you think of how things would have played out back then, Eisenhower, whenever he was president, there likely
00:53:29was something published that said, his name means iron, and the people could easily see that, and they wouldn't critically
00:53:36think and say, well, does Khrushchev really mean clay?
00:53:39In other words, part of it's true, and half-truth doesn't make a whole truth.
00:53:43That's the real point here.
00:53:45And like you said, they're throwing out names.
00:53:47If they can make it sound similar to a Bible phrase or something spiritual in the Bible, they'll do it,
00:53:54because people won't critically think to see, is that really accurate, or did he just pull it straight out of
00:53:59his butt?
00:54:02Well, we're getting close on our time, John, so I do want to play one other kind of foreboding clip
00:54:08where Hobart scolds the people in the church.
00:54:11It's an easy clip to hear, because he begins a message with this, but he's teaching a series in the
00:54:17book of Romans.
00:54:18This was done in 1976, and he just had a lot of different messages that had to do something with
00:54:28getting ready for preparation.
00:54:30I just grabbed his tape list.
00:54:32So, here are a few titles.
00:54:35Here's one called Living in Two Ages at Once.
00:54:41Here are two tapes called Preparation for Restoration.
00:54:45Here's one called Prophecy Concerning Restoration.
00:54:49Here are two called Preparation for Manifestation.
00:54:53Here's one called Evidences of Preparation for Manifestation.
00:55:00I mean, he was just going to work you up in getting you ready for whatever this manifestation of the
00:55:08sons of God was all about.
00:55:10And so, here in this one entitled Preparation for Manifestation, Part 1, Romans 8, I actually visited the glory barn
00:55:23a couple of months for the first time, a couple of months after this message was given.
00:55:27So, I barely missed this message, but from the very beginning of, as soon as he stands up to preach,
00:55:34to about the 2 minute and 50 second time stamp.
00:55:38Praise the Lord.
00:55:39Turn to the 8th chapter of the book of Romans this morning for our studies in the book.
00:55:49I want to say, while you're turning there, God said, let everything be confirmed in the mouth of two or
00:55:57three witnesses.
00:55:57We have his word in Romans 8 for the message that God is maturing his people, those who will submit
00:56:08to it, and that's his matured sons.
00:56:11I'm going to preach on it, that's two witnesses, and I sat in there and heard a prophecy right down
00:56:17the line with practically everything I'm going to say.
00:56:21Same spirit inspired the word, gave me the message, and spoke through our brother.
00:56:27But there is a stirring.
00:56:29God's been dealing with me for about a month.
00:56:31Now, I don't know, we don't need to prove anything by raising your hand.
00:56:37I feel there's something about to break, something about to happen.
00:56:43That there's a great stirring in the heavenlies, and it's been in my spirit for over a month.
00:56:48Especially the last week or so, God has been dealing about as deep in my spirit as when I wondered
00:56:56what it was that he was dealing about when I got the baptism.
00:56:59Since I already knew I had that, I didn't know what it was, so that was in the creed, and
00:57:05I had to get off to myself, and ended up the whole church became charismatic.
00:57:11Among other things, I think he's trying to tell us that the time is very near to manifestation, maturity.
00:57:20He can do a very quick work in you if you'll let him.
00:57:24And some of you, and I have to say this, it's by the spirit who think you may be letting
00:57:30God set you free, are not yet free in attitudes and things you believe and things that you're doing.
00:57:41Now, that will be clear as we go along.
00:57:46But I wonder how many feel a stirring that the spirit is moving.
00:57:51I mean, would you, looky there.
00:57:54Well, and I see that isn't all of you, that's about half of you, so half of you are somehow
00:57:59not hearing what the rest of us are hearing.
00:58:01I mean, everyone who did not raise his hand just may be on the verge of missing God, because it
00:58:09isn't just happening.
00:58:11As I said to me, it's in the Word.
00:58:13I'm going to bring some deeper things forth this morning that will really separate between the men and the boys
00:58:19and those who are going to be overcomers and those who are not.
00:58:22Then we had this prophetic confirmation, as I say, right down the line to what I'm going to preach today.
00:58:30Again, just to show everyone how he's egging people on and urging people towards urgency.
00:58:39When he stands up to preach, he says that there's been a great stirring in his spirit for the last
00:58:46month, that something big is getting ready to happen.
00:58:50And then he asked for a show of hands.
00:58:53So this is right in the middle of their time where they are in the glory barn.
00:58:59This is the summer, definitely the summer of 1976.
00:59:03And he asked for a show of hands of people out there in the congregation.
00:59:08And I can't remember the attendance at that time.
00:59:12I'm going to say probably five or six hundred people in attendance in the glory barn, some people upstairs, some
00:59:20people downstairs, some people having to sit outside and listen on loudspeakers.
00:59:24There's a good group of people there.
00:59:26And he's asking for a show of hands of the people who sense that same over the past month stirring
00:59:35in their spirit.
00:59:36And he's getting ready to teach on Romans eight and the manifestation of the sons of God and about half
00:59:42of the people raise their hand.
00:59:44And he goes on to scold the rest of them, telling them that they are on the verge of missing
00:59:52God because the time of our manifestation is almost here.
00:59:58It was almost here 50 years ago.
01:00:02You know, you know, it's so easy to do these podcasts in light of 50 years of the passage of
01:00:08time where none of these things ever came to pass.
01:00:11Jesus did not return in 1988.
01:00:13He did not manifest his sons in some global way.
01:00:18As Hobart was teaching in 1976, we are in 2026.
01:00:25You know, so the people, the half of the people that raised their hands, did they really experience the same
01:00:31stirring that he said he had the previous month?
01:00:34I'm sure there are people listening to these podcasts or people at least alive today who were there when when
01:00:42he said this.
01:00:43Why did they lift their hands?
01:00:44Had they experienced some stirring in their heart or do you just want to definitely be on the same side
01:00:52as your leader since he's had a stirring?
01:00:55Oh, yes, Lord, I've had a stirring.
01:00:57I want to be a part of that stirring.
01:00:59What about the other 50 percent, the other 300 or 350 people that did not raise their hands?
01:01:07They got scolded, but guess what?
01:01:10They were the ones who were right because nothing did happen and they probably felt terrible that they did not
01:01:17raise their hands.
01:01:18You know, we didn't get as far as I thought we might with our imagine that study of Romans 8.
01:01:27But I would just encourage people to read, go home and read it for themselves.
01:01:31Those verses, you know, 18 to 22, it does mention the manifestation of the sons of God.
01:01:37It does seem like it is going to happen in some kind, some type of fairly big context where it
01:01:45does appear that it happens, you know, kind of like John in first John chapter three.
01:01:51I think he references this without using that terminology where he says along this line, it does not appear what
01:01:58we shall be.
01:01:59But we know that when he appears, we will we will be like him for we'll see him as he
01:02:06is.
01:02:07John seems to say what we're going to look like, what we're going to be like.
01:02:13We haven't experienced that yet, but we will at the second advent.
01:02:17And that seems to be what Paul is saying in first Thessalonians for whenever the Lord returns, he's going to
01:02:24resurrect the dead saints.
01:02:25He's going to change their bodies, going to change the bodies of the living saints.
01:02:29And we're all going to be caught up together to him.
01:02:31And then something else will happen after that.
01:02:35What Hobart interpreted Romans 8 to say is not so much that God's sons are going to be manifested in
01:02:43this creation.
01:02:44This groaning creation is going to be delivered, but that we are the ones who are going to deliver it.
01:02:53And this is where we'll get into next week.
01:02:55I think God's sons will be manifested, and I think the groaning creation will be delivered from its bondage of
01:03:03corruption.
01:03:03That is what Paul is talking about in Romans 8.
01:03:06But what I never could find, John, in that passage is us identified as the ones who are going to
01:03:14do the delivering.
01:03:15I think the rest of the Bible in a normal reading would probably assume God is going to do that
01:03:20himself, that no human beings, no group of special human beings have the capability or will be in the capacity
01:03:30to deliver this groaning creation.
01:03:33But that's what Hobart taught.
01:03:35And how we're going to go about doing that, we'll get into next time.
01:03:40I think I'll end it like a pastor once said, a pastor who, oddly enough, was critically thinking, who had
01:03:47probably unraveled this whole thing in his head.
01:03:50He stood there one day, and I was listening, and he said, all of these things that were predicted, they
01:03:56did not happen.
01:03:59And that means, brothers and sisters, we're living on borrowed time.
01:04:03And I'm certain if you're in Hobart Freeman's camp, I'm certain that they're saying something similar to that.
01:04:08We're living on borrowed time, because they should have happened, and they didn't happen.
01:04:12Well, I'm here to tell you that borrowed time thought can last for the rest of your life if you'll
01:04:17let it.
01:04:17And Chendo and I are here to help you not live on that borrowed time and live on real time
01:04:22and have a real life and move beyond these things.
01:04:25Thank you so much for doing this.
01:04:26Yeah, thanks for having me, John.
01:04:28Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
01:04:31You can find us at william-branum.org.
01:04:33For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion, from Christian Identity to
01:04:39the NAR.
01:04:40Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:05:09Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:05:39Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:05:43Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
01:05:46I'll see you next time now.