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00:00So anyway, the reason I bring that up is because I'm a little behind.
00:04Because yesterday, okay, so while Deshaun Watson, I'll let everybody in on something.
00:07While Deshaun Watson talks and while Todd Munkin talks,
00:10I'm doing other interviews and other things over there.
00:12So I did an interview with Andre Schmidt that Jeff played earlier.
00:16And we talked about, we got into the minutiae.
00:18I didn't realize there's a way to hold the ball.
00:20I've done how many interviews with kickers?
00:22And he's like, yeah, there's a forward lane.
00:24It's a really cool interview.
00:25Andre Schmidt's great.
00:26And I didn't get to hear Deshaun Watson talking about the party.
00:31And I was like, because I heard a snippet of it.
00:35And I checked the transcript thing.
00:39And I didn't know if I saw anything.
00:41Like everything was just a blur.
00:43So when I drove in and I heard you guys talking about it, I go, what party?
00:47What are we talking about?
00:48Lucky for you, Ken.
00:49Yeah, go ahead.
00:50I have access to audio.
00:52And now I'm pressing play.
00:54I mean, it's great.
00:55I mean, we hanging outside the building, getting to know each other, playing cards, just hanging
00:58out, talking ball, talking about life, getting to know each other.
01:01So it was really cool.
01:03It was good.
01:03You know, the guys always know that my house is always open.
01:06So, you know, whenever they want to come by and hang out, you know, we can do it every
01:09week.
01:09So it's really just, you know, the timing of everything and when guys are free.
01:13All right.
01:14And so what is the issue with the party?
01:18I don't think there's an issue at all.
01:20Okay.
01:21I don't have an issue.
01:22So it doesn't sound like you have an issue.
01:24I don't have an issue.
01:25Teammates certainly, they embraced having a party.
01:27Did you see the food trucks?
01:29I didn't see any of it.
01:30Oh, I did.
01:30I didn't see any of it.
01:31On social media.
01:32And I just called you dude.
01:33Some of the, some of the restaurateurs helped facilitate their food trucks in town.
01:39And this looked like an awesome bonding experience for the team.
01:45Well, I'm not against any of that.
01:46Well, who would be against it?
01:48I don't know.
01:49Other than people on social media, because they seem to be very against it.
01:54See, Deshaun Watson is not allowed to be considered a leader.
01:58He's not allowed to be somebody that players gravitate towards.
02:01He's not allowed to have journalists asking questions and nodding.
02:07Like they should just be shame.
02:10Shame, Deshaun Watson.
02:12Shame.
02:13Shame.
02:14So.
02:15Did they start that bell?
02:17Is that in there?
02:17It used to be a bell that you could ring.
02:19So.
02:20Oh, or shame bell.
02:21Yeah.
02:21Well, I mean, they asked Watson more about it.
02:24Oh, good.
02:24It's been going on for a little bit.
02:25It didn't just, they didn't just start hanging out together Sunday night.
02:29Let's hear.
02:29I mean, we've been, you know, building this chemistry and this, the bond, the love since
02:35the spring.
02:35You know, this is, this isn't the first time we've hung out.
02:38It's just the first time we kind of got, you know, you know, put out.
02:40But, you know, we've been hanging out since spring.
02:43So guys been hanging out with each other, going to dinner, going to, you know, sporting
02:46events, different activities outside the building.
02:48So, you know, we've been hanging out for a long time.
02:50It was just, nah, just getting on notice.
02:52I remember seeing some of all of them at dinner.
02:54I didn't think, I didn't, I didn't think anything about it.
02:57I remember the thing about them.
02:58Yeah.
02:58No, no, no.
02:59I, I, I, I, yes, yes.
03:00Like.
03:00Cause there was the other get together they had that people jumped on them because of where
03:04the night ended up.
03:06Where was that?
03:07I don't, I am totally in the, in the bushes here.
03:09There was a lot of dancing going on.
03:11Okay.
03:11And we're moving on from that one.
03:13Uh, no, I just saw, I saw a thing of them at dinner.
03:15That's all I saw.
03:16And that was at the end, like the end of training camp or something like that.
03:19That's all.
03:19I, I didn't know anything about it or it's all this, like food trucks and everything
03:24out there.
03:24It just sounds like Billy Madison's graduate in the third grade.
03:27Uh, I don't, I don't, I don't, I haven't seen it.
03:30There's a question of why Todd Munkin wasn't invited though.
03:34Is that what it is, Owen?
03:35You got to help me here.
03:36I'm blind.
03:36I hate this.
03:37I know that Keith's going to hate me for it question more than I did.
03:40Todd Munkin.
03:40Well, yeah.
03:41Sorry to the party.
03:42Here's Todd's answer.
03:43Yes.
03:44I think it's cool that our guys enjoy spending time together.
03:46I think they enjoy spending time together within the building.
03:49You would like to think that it's irrespective of the winning or the losing, but is that
03:53a part of it?
03:54Of course.
03:55I mean, is it more fun to hang out when you're winning?
03:56Of course.
03:57But I think it's also guys like to hang out with other guys that put in the work, have
04:02embraced the process.
04:03And so I think that's, and that's all they've done since I've been here.
04:06So I think it's pretty cool.
04:08Do you remember Mike Tomlin recently talked about no players only meetings?
04:13Oh yeah.
04:13He was on Kelsey's podcast and just blew it up.
04:16Kind of laughed about the notion of having a players only meeting.
04:19And this instead.
04:21And they have a bunch of players only meetings in Pittsburgh.
04:23Is this a players only meeting or a players only party?
04:26Yeah.
04:26Yes.
04:27Was there a pinata?
04:29Oh yeah.
04:30Pin the tail on the donkey.
04:32Okay.
04:33Does John have a problem that Todd wasn't invited?
04:38I don't know.
04:39John, come on in.
04:40Well, can I just kind of think like we've had Todd Munkin in studio talks about him.
04:44He loves the ponies.
04:45I feel like Todd Munkin would be really fun to party with.
04:47He's a guy I want to have a beer with.
04:49He doesn't drink.
04:50He's not having a beer these days.
04:51He doesn't drink.
04:52Well, that I didn't know.
04:53But hypothetically.
04:54But that's the beauty of Todd.
04:54Todd, I don't think that Todd would walk away while you had a drink.
04:58I don't think that he's bothered by that.
05:00He doesn't need the lubricant anymore.
05:02Yeah.
05:03So, like, I could have several beers while talking to Todd.
05:08In fact, I think Todd would be like, isn't this party pretty cool?
05:11Yeah.
05:11Like the coolest party.
05:12Yeah.
05:13Can you believe this?
05:14Finally, I'm at this party.
05:15I think he would probably do that.
05:17Yeah.
05:17So, well, he's still the head coach of the football team.
05:20You can't really invite the head coach and expect everybody to.
05:23But he's got the easel out.
05:25Like, honestly, like, John, like, you can invite.
05:27You can invite assistants, maybe.
05:31Maybe.
05:32I know it's weird because it's not.
05:34It's a football team and we're all on football teams or teams of some sort.
05:37But it's also a workplace.
05:39The last time I saw coaches hanging out with players for the Browns, we lost a wide receiver.
05:44Oh, that's right.
05:45Yeah.
05:47That's a hell of a point.
05:48That's right.
05:49Yeah.
05:49I don't think you need the coaches there.
05:51And then that guy got to be a head coach.
05:52We never really got our wide receiver back.
05:54And then he got to be an offensive coordinator and they didn't score any points.
05:57But he got off it as well.
05:59He got off it as well.
06:00And I don't begrudge him except we didn't get our wide receiver back.
06:04It was a different time.
06:05I mean, we all make mistakes.
06:08I don't.
06:09I'm supposed to have a problem with Tom Mung not being invited to this party?
06:11No.
06:12I don't think.
06:12Okay, thank God.
06:13The thing I saw the most was.
06:14At least the head coach.
06:15You don't invite the head coach of the party.
06:17That social media is jumping on.
06:19Any time Deshaun Watson is having a, quote, human moment, you know, a teammate moment,
06:25like there's a portion of the fan base and a big portion of the NFL fan base of other teams,
06:31they don't see him as a real human.
06:33Like, they don't think he should be allowed to walk freely.
06:37They don't think he should be in the NFL.
06:40Well, you and I have been different on that.
06:42Like, what's done is done.
06:44Unless there's something that new that comes out, we'll discuss it.
06:47But what's done or not done or what's settled is settled, I should say.
06:51Yeah.
06:51And so I look at it now like.
06:54There's not even an accuser out there protesting.
06:57There's none of that.
06:59Everybody's gone their separate ways.
07:00But you and I on our show, like when he went after the fans after the Buffalo game,
07:04we yelled at him about going after the fans.
07:06Like, dude, it's been four years.
07:07I said, dude, again, it's been four years.
07:10Why are you doing this at this time?
07:13Like, I was mad at him then.
07:15But like, hey, you're four and two.
07:16I'm going to judge you as a quarterback.
07:18Like, and what I've judged you as a quarterback, it's like, well, yeah,
07:21you're not God's gift to the game anymore, but you're also playing winning football.
07:25So I'm not going to really hammer you when you're four and two
07:28and you're doing what it takes to win football games.
07:30Because he's done what it takes to win football games.
07:32So what is the problem?
07:34Am I, like, John is like, like, John feels like Homer Simpson.
07:37Like, don't you hate pants?
07:37Like, I'm like, I don't, I don't think the head coach should be invited to a player's party.
07:41There is a faction of the fan base.
07:44And they, it's, I think it's, it's minimal at this stage.
07:47Because we hear the crowds as they're winning games in the fourth quarter go nuts.
07:51Same crowd that booed the offense earlier.
07:53They, they're going nuts as they leave the stadium.
07:55He's got four wins at home.
07:56He's got two divisional wins.
07:58The steal, the hated Steelers, the hated Baltimore Ravens, right?
08:02There's a portion of the fan base that hates this.
08:05And they, they, they're, they're getting marginalized.
08:08Like, they don't want to be the one kicking and screaming out in front of everybody
08:12because they know how that's going to be.
08:14You've seen some media people in town who think this is such a waste of time.
08:18They're not going to take part in this.
08:20They're not fist pumping.
08:21I saw some where someone was like, yeah, they don't want to know.
08:24Someone we like, someone we like a lot.
08:25So they're just not going to enjoy Deshaun Watson being a captain, being a leader, being a, a team favorite.
08:32And then, you know, let's face it.
08:34Deshaun Watson's won some fans over.
08:36Some fans have flipped.
08:38They absolutely have.
08:39Even if they don't like the stuff he's been accused of, they are, are at least cheering for him.
08:46I, I, I, I look at every game like it is, honestly, it's, well, let me explain where I stand
08:51on it when we come back.
08:52Okay.
08:52Let me just explain it in five minutes, as well as, uh, if the Cavs went over 50 games again
08:56this year, but no one sees it.
08:58Does it actually count?
08:59Ken Carman, Anthony Lyme on the fan.
09:02I will tell you this before the season, I got a couple of really nasty emails.
09:09Going after me about Deshaun Watson, I'm like, Hey man, like I said, he should be the starting quarterback.
09:15We'll see how this goes.
09:16And then he went out there and he was terrible against the Jacksonville Jaguars to the point where we thought
09:20like against Tampa Bay, that was going to be the end of his career.
09:23Like they may very well come back and Mary Kay and Mary Kay joins us at eight 20 that he
09:29may just go his own way and they might just send him home and pay him.
09:32And that's it.
09:33You don't need to be around the team anymore.
09:35Um, obviously that's changed a little bit here.
09:39And I only say a little bit because it, he's not setting the world on fire, but you're foreign to
09:44and most fans.
09:46Listen, it's a, it's a fantasy football is a fantasy football is an entertainment and look at all we do.
09:52Like if you care about a player, like if there's somebody out there that has a huge Jalen hurts fan,
10:00they're mad at the NFL.
10:01They're mad about what's going on.
10:03Let me use a different example here.
10:04Like you choose to be a hardcore fan of a player.
10:08You choose that, but you don't have to, you can just say, Hey, I'm a Browns fan or Hey, I'm
10:13an Eagles fan.
10:14If he felt he could play, play him.
10:17I know it's dangerous.
10:19I don't know what's happening.
10:20I know the NFL PA.
10:21It's like, Hey, it's an entertainment business.
10:24They're going to say it's up to him.
10:25If he wants to play, play it.
10:28That's what it is.
10:29It's all based on entertainment.
10:30And I think we go at some point we know going in, like, I'm not trying to treat people as
10:36objects or just like, this is what it is.
10:39But I think we have an understanding, like, Hey, when it comes down to it, if you want to treat
10:43them just like objects, go ahead and treat them like objects.
10:46Like that's what you go to the stadium, you watch the game.
10:49You hope your team wins.
10:50If your team's winning, you, you support them.
10:53If your team's losing, you get mad, you boom through three quarters.
10:56And then when they turn up, everybody goes home happy.
10:59Yeah.
11:00We have those experience.
11:01It's called professional sports.
11:04I don't condone that in any other setting other than professional sports.
11:09And I, when it comes to Deshaun Watson, yeah, I, I don't think that this is long-term quarterback success.
11:18I don't think that this is something that you would give a big contract to, but I also know, Hey,
11:24I might be stuck in a rock and a hard place here, guys.
11:25Like I, I, I've just tried to tell the truth and I think you have as well over these last
11:30several weeks going, this is a bit better than what we thought it was going to be.
11:34Considering it started out as an out and out disaster and he was going after the fans for booing him
11:38and nobody wanted to see him.
11:39Cause all he was, was a representation of bad football.
11:42All right.
11:43Things change.
11:43They're four and two.
11:44So it's not where it's like, Hey, Deshaun's a swell guy.
11:48And I love Deshaun.
11:49He's a means to an end.
11:51He's a means to an end.
11:53I don't hate the guy.
11:55I don't want bad things to happen to him.
11:57You still wish he never would have been here.
12:00No, I, I didn't.
12:01I was not.
12:01I did not want the trade.
12:03I argued against the trade.
12:04I argued against the trade when it, when we were talking about the rumors of the trade in October of
12:092021, when it first got brought up on this show, I was against it then.
12:14And it still seems to be that over the last four years, a four and two start still doesn't change
12:19a lot of the things that have happened over the last four years.
12:23That said, when's the last time we talked about settlements?
12:26When's the last time we talked about any of the other stuff?
12:28Like, yes, there comes a time where I have to be a professional.
12:31I have to close the book on that.
12:33We go on like when he plays poorly.
12:35And if he does, like if he goes out there against Tennessee and they somehow just neutralize everything he does,
12:41I think they're going to go down to Tennessee and win.
12:43But if they somehow, and I think it's going to be a heavy Browns crowd, from what I'm hearing, there's
12:46a lot of people going down there.
12:48They're either driving or flying like it's a seven-hour drive.
12:51There's going to be a hell of a lot of Browns fans in that stadium on Sunday.
12:54Those are not the same people that are tweeting how they're not rooting for this team.
12:58Exactly.
12:58Yeah, exactly.
12:59So, like, if you're making that trip and you're going there, and the Browns are four and two, you want
13:04to see the Browns win.
13:05And so you're not going to be sitting there booing him as he comes out of the tunnel or any
13:10of that other stuff.
13:11Like, I do think it's that simple.
13:13And some people will hear that, like some of the big pseudo-thinkers in NFL media and will say I'm
13:19vapid for that.
13:19But no, I'm just boiling it down to what it is.
13:21I'm just telling you the truth.
13:22If you don't like it, that's on you.
13:24Your football team does well, you cheer for that football team.
13:27We all have, we all have not just one, many players with questions of their past, things that have happened
13:35in their past.
13:36You know, I bring up LT all the time.
13:37They pray at the altar, LT, and he's been found guilty of things.
13:43Ray Lewis and Big Ben.
13:45So, when we bring all this up, it's like, hey, at some point, I have to understand that the system
13:52is played out, and now he's playing, and now I look at what he does.
13:57And what he does is not play incredible Mahomes football.
14:03I don't expect that.
14:05I expect complimentary football.
14:08And so far, he's played complimentary football.
14:12And I'm happy that the Browns are 4-2.
14:15I'm happy that Browns fans are happy.
14:18Yeah, the guy that was shot-putting footballs, you know, as recently as the preseason.
14:22And the guy who played with a scowl on his face, it looked like he had no joy left.
14:27Wanted to be anywhere but here.
14:29Yeah, which, you know, I get it.
14:30He got paid all that money.
14:31How does he not have joy?
14:32Well, on the football field, you kind of need your quarterback to be confident.
14:35You kind of need your quarterback to be having fun.
14:37And so, that's why when I see stories of him, you know, throwing a party for his teammates and the
14:43teammates reacting to it and looking at him as if he's a leader, that stuff does matter on the field.
14:49And I know that some of you will never see him as any of that, but you got to face
14:54the facts.
14:55His teammates do.
14:55His teammates are looking up to him.
14:57His teammates are picking his brain.
14:59His teammates are treating him as if he is our Patrick Mahomes.
15:04As if he is our Lamar Jackson.
15:06I want this whole show to tell the truth right now.
15:08Because I think this is where a lot of people are like, have you changed on Deshaun Watson?
15:12I want everybody to turn their mics on.
15:14Do you believe they're winning in spite, in spite of Deshaun Watson?
15:19Owen?
15:21No.
15:22John?
15:23No.
15:24And I agree.
15:25It's an official show stance.
15:27If he were turning the ball over like crazy and somehow they're winning 13-10.
15:31Yeah.
15:31He's not turning the ball.
15:32Like, interceptable passes.
15:34They're not being intercepted.
15:35What's he doing in the fourth quarter?
15:37If he plays, like, if he starts playing bad enough against some of these teams in the
15:41first three quarters and they're just down by 21 and they can't come back, yeah, then
15:45we got a problem.
15:46Or if he just turns it over and somehow the defense just keeps turning the other team
15:49over and we end up winning in a game that I can't even fathom in real life, then yeah,
15:54you're winning in spite of the guy.
15:55But I've had those two, Kenny, they're winning in spite of Deshaun Watson.
15:58I'm like, I don't think they are.
15:59Yeah, I thought there was some games last year where the defense was so good, they won in
16:04spite of the bad quarterback play.
16:06And that went for a few of them.
16:07Not just one.
16:08That's not happening this year.
16:09He's making nails throws with under duress in big moments.
16:13You'd have to say over the last two years, because they only won eight games over the
16:15last two years.
16:16So there's not a whole lot of winning there.
16:17You agree they're not winning because of Deshaun Watson?
16:19Oh, I think in the fourth quarter they are.
16:20Like, I think they'd be 0-6 with a lot of quarterbacks right now.
16:23I do.
16:25Yeah, but they wouldn't even have those opportunities if the defense wasn't playing out of its
16:29mind right now.
16:29Yeah, they are playing complimentary.
16:30If I'm assigning what the reason that they're winning is because of the defense.
16:34I'm not willing to go as far as Lyme is.
16:36I agree totally with you.
16:37I think that, again, he's playing complimentary football, and they're winning football games,
16:42and he's not messing it up.
16:43So because he's not messing it up, he's not doing those things.
16:46You're winning, you look to leaders.
16:47Quarterback's the natural leadership position.
16:50Yeah, they're going to like the guy.
16:51We're winning football games.
16:52Everybody's happy.
16:53We can turn the screws on the football team after a win and improve on things without having
16:59to feel bad and make the situation worse.
17:01And ultimately what you paid the 230 for was not only the wins, but for things like the
17:06party after the game and the bringing the team together and all of that.
17:11You paid for all of that.
17:13Hadn't got it up until, what, five weeks ago.
17:16That's what you said you wanted.
17:17They'd have more losses right now with Baker.
17:19They'd have more losses right now with Bo Nix.
17:21I mean, I could go through the whole list.
17:23Justin Herbert.
17:24All guys that have been universally considered better than Deshaun Watson.
17:27Listen, the Cavs open up tonight.
17:29I'm going to put off this Cavs conversation until seven o'clock.
17:32I want to know from you guys, have you changed your stance on Deshaun Watson?
17:362-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
17:38For better, for worse, for wherever.
17:40I want to know where you're at on that.
17:41Lyman wants to know where you're at on that.
17:42Ken Carman, Anthony Lyman.
17:43Where else but 92-3 the fan?