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00:00I need to. I don't got to make it any more intricate, do I?
00:02I don't think so.
00:03Tone, you got something over there. He's just looking at his phone.
00:05You are totally disinterested. Let's go.
00:08We got a damn game going on here to get ready for.
00:11Here's the thing about it. It was such a weird...
00:12Stop talking to the Connie.
00:14It's such a weird time not to do the contest, so let's do it.
00:179-2-3 The Fan looking for a winner.
00:19Win passes to the fans' exclusive advanced screening of Madden.
00:22People are loving this movie.
00:23Tuesday, November 17th, 7 p.m. at Phoenix.
00:27Great Northern, courtesy of Amazon MGM Studios, hosted by Daryl Ryder.
00:31And throwing out free popcorn.
00:34Here's the question.
00:35Are they going to be throwing out the boxes of popcorn or just one kernel at a time?
00:39Stay tuned. Enter the code word BOOM by the end of the hour.
00:42B-O-O-M.
00:42It would be boxes of popcorn, not one kernel at a time.
00:44At 923fan.com to get registered to win.
00:46What's the word again?
00:47Boom.
00:48Boom.
00:48Okay.
00:51Who do you want to start next week?
00:53I think it's got to be Deshaun.
00:56Boom.
00:56There you go.
00:57But, they're now, simply because of the difference between 6-3 and 5-4, it does seem to me, I
01:07know it sounds crazy, it seems like a big difference between the two.
01:12And so, we could be inching closer to, you know, a turn of events here that would hand the ball
01:21off to Shador.
01:23But, I think Deshaun will get the start against Houston, and he'll get the start.
01:27Who's after Houston as they embark on the bye week?
01:29There's a bye week, and then they got, um, what the hell?
01:32They got the Raiders.
01:33They got Las Vegas.
01:35And that could be it.
01:36So, if he plays, now, I'd start him on Sunday against Houston, too.
01:40Now, if he plays that poorly, you're 5-5.
01:43And if he plays that poorly, you have a bye week.
01:45So, I don't think it's, I think we can have the conversation.
01:48You're wondering if the change could happen then.
01:48I think it is in the realm of possibility, you could look at it, if he were to play really
01:55poorly on Sunday, I don't want to say he's playing for his job or anything like that.
02:00Because, again, if he plays fine, it'll give him a chance to win, and maybe there'll be 5-5, maybe
02:06there'll be 6-4, and we go into the bye week.
02:07But, if he goes out there and he plays poorly, I think it's a conversation, certainly.
02:11Because, I don't think that Shador Sanders embarrassed himself at all.
02:15There was definitely some miscommunications.
02:18I think the one with Quenchon Judkins was definitely Quenchon Judkins' fault.
02:22Running in with Austin Barber, I wonder if that's his.
02:25You know, was he supposed to turn the other way?
02:27And was Austin Barber too early?
02:29Not on the goal line.
02:30Yes.
02:31There's a lot of things there that we've got to get figured out on that one.
02:34But, I thought for what Shador Sanders did, yeah, it wasn't an overwhelmingly tremendous day at the office.
02:39He lighted up in the fourth quarter, so is Deshaun Watson in the fourth quarter.
02:43So, he didn't play poorly enough where I'm like, this is a farce.
02:47His fans are crazy.
02:49Just get rid of him.
02:49No, absolutely not.
02:51Absolutely not.
02:52But, I don't think he played well enough just to unseat Deshaun Watson when you're a 5-4 football team.
02:59And you're still trying to be in the playoffs.
03:02But, if you go out there with Deshaun Watson on Sunday, you lose, he looks bad.
03:05Yeah, let's have the conversation.
03:07If he goes out there and he plays okay and they still lose, they're 5-5.
03:10I think we're less likely to have the conversation, but I think some people are still going to want to.
03:14And then here, you're still going to have three, four, seven games left going after the bye week.
03:19So, there's still a lot of time to get something out of Shador Sanders if you want to get something
03:24out of Shador Sanders.
03:25But, considering how the game plans have gone, the conversations have gone,
03:29I do think in so many ways that, you know, where are you going to go at quarterback for next
03:34year?
03:34Depending on how this season finishes.
03:37Are you going to go back to the draft?
03:39Did Lenore Sellers and his performance on one leg on Saturday rekindle any love out there for anybody?
03:45I'm throwing out scenarios.
03:47Because it ain't going to be number one overall.
03:50Arch Manning had a good game against Mizzou.
03:53Had a couple Arch Manning plays.
03:55I'm not having those conversations now, but these are the conversations that start if he starts, Deshaun,
04:00and you lose to Houston, and then Shador comes in, and if Shador is just the same as he was,
04:05I think a lot of people are going to go, yeah, we've got to look into the future.
04:09And as of right now, I would lean more towards looking into the future.
04:12Because I don't think either guy has played an exceedingly tremendous brand of football,
04:17and I don't think either guy has been so terrible that we've got to get rid of him.
04:20And people go, Kenny, you've got a really low bar.
04:22Yes, I do.
04:22I have a very low bar.
04:23Guilty as charged on that.
04:25I'll say the bar seems a bit lower around the world of the NFL, you know, entirely this year.
04:31Not to mention how many backup quarterbacks have played over the last three weeks.
04:34And even the starters, when you're looking at Justin Herbert, who is yet to win a game this year.
04:39They've lost 11 straight, if you go back to last year.
04:42The Jalen Hurts situation this year in Philly wasn't good.
04:47Like, Watson had been better than both those guys.
04:50So, you know, people, yeah, if you're going to compare it to most normal years in the NFL,
04:55what Watson has given you has not been good enough at all.
04:58This year, it's actually been kind of good enough, believe it or not.
05:01And that's the exact point.
05:03When I look at Deshaun Watson, the reason I say this is that, yeah, if we had just made the
05:09trade,
05:10and we were giving up just the three first-round picks, we're past the three first-round picks,
05:14we're past all the money that's been thrown out there,
05:16and I don't expect him to play.
05:17I didn't expect him to play this well, let alone as well as he's played,
05:20and he hasn't played that damn good compared to some of the great quarterbacks out there,
05:25the ones that are getting paid like it.
05:27But I have to adjust because it's been four years of either not being available
05:30or being terrible, one of the two.
05:33For Shador, it's odd to me because there's so many people who say it's a vast conspiracy
05:39and it's wrong and he should have been taken number two overall.
05:42Well, he hasn't played like a number two overall quarterback,
05:44and I don't hold him to that standard.
05:47If they had taken him number two overall,
05:49I'd probably be sorely disappointed with all this quarterback play.
05:52I don't.
05:52I don't judge him like a number two overall.
05:54So that's when I get into it, like when we get some of the calls,
05:57I go, I just can't have a conversation with somebody.
05:59The Browns have not treated him like a fifth-round pick
06:01who did get seven starts last year.
06:03Most fifth-round picks do not get anything remotely like that.
06:06Because we're trying to figure out whether or not,
06:09where can we meet where there was so much that he should go in the first round
06:13to then going in the fifth round?
06:15Where can I meet in the middle and get the best quarterback out of that?
06:18And let yesterday's performance was not a reason to cut or trade him.
06:22So the Browns obviously had a chance to take Tyler Shook a couple of years ago.
06:27So he has had his ups and downs.
06:30What did you think after you finally got a chance to see him?
06:33And against, you know, we're supposed to be a much better defense.
06:36I thought he was fine, but he's not the type of guy that I think is going to be
06:39overwhelming down the stretch and will regret not taking him.
06:44Was that, do you disagree?
06:45I kind of waffled on this because we talked yesterday, as we always do,
06:50extensive prep for the show.
06:52And I kind of agree with you.
06:53And then I thought about it a little more.
06:55And I'm like, man, I think Browns fans would be pretty excited to have Tyler Shook
06:59to finish out this year and have as a starting quarterback for next year.
07:03I think they'd be a lot more excited than what we have going right now.
07:05You maybe would have more of a future, but I still don't think I'd be sleeping easy at night.
07:09I have not met a quarterback that's made me sleep easy at night in 30 years.
07:12Right.
07:14And I don't think that Tyler Shook would be that guy.
07:16He's 27 also.
07:18Closest I came to it was Baker.
07:20Yeah.
07:21That's it.
07:21Who did not look good last night.
07:24No.
07:242-1-6-4-7-4-0-92.
07:26So are you staying with Shador or are you going back to Deshaun Watson?
07:31Is it a clean sweep within the show?
07:33Has John given his opinion yet?
07:35No.
07:36I don't think he has.
07:36John.
07:38Does he still work here?
07:39Oh.
07:39Are you going back to Deshaun or are you staying with Shador?
07:42You know, I really like the way Shador played yesterday.
07:45That throw to Casey was one of the best.
07:46That's up there with the Anthony Richardson throw from week one a couple years ago.
07:51That's not a great comparison, dude.
07:53Are we talking about the same throw?
07:55I'm not comparing him to Anthony Richardson.
07:57I'm comparing that throw to one of the best throws I've ever seen.
08:01Okay.
08:01But that's not a reason to start long term.
08:04That's a carnival trick then.
08:06Wait.
08:06Which KC throw is one of the best throws you've ever seen?
08:09You're talking about the touchdown pass?
08:09The touchdown pass.
08:11Yeah.
08:12Because Shador's throwing way better passes than that.
08:14He was getting demolished.
08:14He was getting demolished.
08:15You're talking about the Jerry Judy one, I think.
08:17No, he's not.
08:18He's not a real fan.
08:19He doesn't know what he's looking at.
08:20He wasn't watching before.
08:22That's why I thought it was egregious.
08:23Well, that's why I thought it was ridiculous.
08:25He bought a $60 bronze jacket and says he's a Browns fan now.
08:29No, the KC throw, he kind of hung up and KC had to kind of stop.
08:33It's the same thing.
08:34I mean, it did help KC score the touchdown.
08:36Yeah, that is probably why he scored a touchdown.
08:37Because he was able to reroute himself and then use his speed to get to the other side.
08:43Almost ran over a ref.
08:44They don't all need to be perfect.
08:46I saw some people going both touchdowns like that, or the Denzel play was also underthrown.
08:51Sure, but it's still better than overthrowing by 10 yards that don't get caught.
08:56Especially like the Denzel play is on the sideline, right?
08:59Yeah.
09:00You put it two yards to the other side and you don't even have a play there.
09:03And you probably don't have a chance in that game if you don't make...
09:06I know they ended up not scoring a field goal off of that or whatever, but...
09:10Yeah, like the Shook vertical passes were prettier, were better, were more on target.
09:16Because two of those were defended tightly, and he still dropped those in.
09:20Those were impressive, impressive throws.
09:22And that's the only reason I was asking about Tyler Shook, like the potential.
09:25He also can't read things at the line of scrimmage.
09:28I didn't see anything different between him and Shador Sanders.
09:31Oh, his vertical passes, he can sling it.
09:35In one game you've watched him.
09:37I wouldn't put Sean Watson in vertical.
09:39He can sling it on him on that one game.
09:41I think Tyler Shook's arm talent is far superior.
09:43I might have said Watson.
09:44I mean, I saw Shador Sanders get vertical yesterday.
09:46I saw him get vertical a couple times.
09:48There was nothing that he did in that game that made me go,
09:52I'd rather have this guy over what we currently have here.
09:55Really?
09:55I am stunned.
09:56I thought it was pretty clear.
09:58I'm not poo-pooing what he did.
10:00I thought it was fine.
10:01And I thought, I don't think it's enough of an upgrade for this
10:04to really be a conversation.
10:06The 51 rushing yards against our defense?
10:08It was complimentary football.
10:10He didn't play against the Saints defense.
10:11He played against our defense.
10:12I think Bernie then and now can run through our defense.
10:14What are you talking about?
10:15You're terrible at stopping the run.
10:16Our defense is way better.
10:17No, but those aren't running plays.
10:18You think our defense is good at stopping the run?
10:20Hold on, hold on.
10:21Anthony, do you think our defense is good at stopping the run?
10:23I'm talking to two foot.
10:24No, you're wrong.
10:26You're just wrong.
10:27You can say it all you want.
10:28Our defense, do you think they're good?
10:30Those are not designed running plays.
10:32That's what I thought was...
10:33You think our defense is good?
10:34Yeah, our defense is good, isn't it?
10:36At stopping the run.
10:37Those aren't running plays.
10:39What don't you understand?
10:40Those are not designed running plays.
10:41That's why it's impressive.
10:42He played winning complimentary football, but I can't believe you're sitting over here
10:45saying that our defense sucks if those weren't running plays and he ran well on them.
10:48So you just want...
10:49Well, it's because of his vertical passing threat that he's able to get those things.
10:52Because Jared Verse sucks, too.
10:54See, this is where we're getting...
10:55Well, I don't disagree with you.
10:57See, I agree with Owen on a lot of things here today.
10:59But this is what I'm talking about.
11:00Like, when it comes to Shador, and this is where the argument is, it's like, I'm just
11:03not taking anybody but Shador just so we can stop having the conversation with the people
11:07on the internet here, okay?
11:08If I'm taking somebody better, I want somebody better.
11:11Better, better, better, better, better.
11:13Not just marginally better.
11:15And I thought maybe Tyler Shook would be marginally better than Shador Sanders.
11:19Oh, I thought he was yesterday.
11:20But I'm not staying up going, I can't believe we didn't take Tyler Shook.
11:24No.
11:25No.
11:25I mean, his numbers...
11:26I mean, he's 8-9 with the Saints.
11:28Then you're just desperate to find anybody but what we have.
11:30Desperate?
11:31Because I don't think either one of these...
11:32You don't think Browns fans would be more excited if Tyler Shook was their quarterback
11:36right now about their short-term?
11:38Long-term future?
11:39Not even saying long-term because I don't even know if I believe in long-term anymore.
11:42Well, he's like 29 years old.
11:4327.
11:4427?
11:4627?
11:47Mm-hmm.
11:47I mean, what?
11:48The short-term future?
11:49I don't know.
11:49Do you think the Browns have a better supporting cast than what he has with the Saints?
11:53Yes.
11:53And he would guaranteed be the starting quarterback next year.
11:56We're not guaranteeing that for Shador Sanders.
11:58Okay, but if you're talking about a total change in QBs, like they took him in the draft
12:02and they didn't take him for one or two yet.
12:05So you take a second round QB, you didn't take him for one or two or three years.
12:07You took him to be the future of your franchise.
12:09I mean, technically, when you take a guy in the fifth round, you're not taking him to be
12:12the future of your franchise.
12:14So you've got to be way better than the fifth-round pick for me to talk about future of the
12:17franchise.
12:18And they can start Tyler Shook again next year, and then they'll probably be looking for a
12:21quarterback the year after that.
12:23And I hate saying like that because I'm not hating on the guy.
12:25I'm really not.
12:26I didn't think he played a bad game whatsoever.
12:29I think he played complimentary football.
12:30I just didn't think he was God's gift to the position yesterday.
12:33No, not God's gift.
12:34Well, you're making it out to be 51 rushing yards and getting vertical.
12:37I think we can have some nuance.
12:39I'm trying to, but the way you're taking things.
12:41His arm is better.
12:42I mean, he's definitely, and he's a more accurate passer.
12:46I mean, that last year demonstrated that too.
12:47Well, nobody was disagreeing with all that.
12:49But again, you're talking about comparing a fifth-round pick to a second-round pick.
12:54And the second-round pick, I just don't feel any sense of loss that they didn't take Tyler Shook, Tone.
13:00Well, that's what I'm getting at too because we did this with talking about Jackson Dart.
13:04Yes.
13:05Because, you know, the Browns at some point have to figure out their next quarterback.
13:09And last year went by.
13:11Jackson Dart had everybody talking around the NFL, but he couldn't stay healthy.
13:15And so now we're wondering, you know, where he's going to be.
13:20There's, the Browns have to figure this out.
13:22They can't just let year after year after year go by.
13:25And just drafting Dylan Gabriel and Shador Sanders, those still, as of right now, you know,
13:30halfway through this season, a year later, it doesn't seem like they have their starting quarterback.
13:35No, but they also drafted Dylan Green too, which again, it's not about, when we talk about Deshaun
13:41and we talk about Shador, it is not, again, a conversation amongst the other quarterbacks in the league.
13:47It's a conversation about who's actually available.
13:49And so, like, we have these arguments about Deshaun over the last couple of weeks,
13:53and we were comparing him to all these other guys.
13:54I'm like, hey, that's great, but I can't replace him with Burrow.
13:57I can't replace him with Herbert.
13:59I can't replace him with CJ Stroud.
14:02I can replace him with Shador.
14:04Okay.
14:04And then who can I replace Shador with if he goes belly up?
14:07Okay, I guess Dylan Gabriel, which doesn't excite anybody.
14:12Even Dylan Gabriel, maybe.
14:16My quarterback room is not a great quarterback room.
14:20And because I've won five games, because they seem to agree with him, is the reason I'm going back with
14:27Deshaun Watson.
14:29But I don't want to just give up on Shador, because I think, yeah, I think every game is a
14:33wondrous occasion if they win still.
14:37And if they win on Sunday, then there's no conversation.
14:40If they lose on Sunday, you're five and five.
14:42We'll see how he plays, and then maybe there's a conversation.
14:44Like, I want somebody I can look forward to.
14:47Because we are trying to thread this needle of, and this is a crazy thing to put fans through, but
14:51here we are.
14:53Are you trying to make the playoffs?
14:54And if we're not going to make the playoffs, what are we looking forward to in the future?
14:58And so, yeah, you win this game on Sunday.
15:00Hey, you're six and four.
15:02We're trying to make the playoffs.
15:03You lose, there's a different conversation.
15:04But I'm not going to hope that they lose over draft positioning or just because I want to see Shador.
15:09No, I want them to win football games.
15:11And the best chance I still think for them to win is still to go back to the veteran that
15:15they've won with.