- 10 minutes ago
The Uttar Pradesh Assembly elections debate highlighted governance, crime reduction, welfare initiatives, and election dynamics between BJP and Samajwadi Party.
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00:00Joining me on the show tonight, Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
00:04We have Abbas Haider from the Samajwadi Party,
00:08Professor Badri Narayan, columnist and political analyst.
00:11We also have Rashid Kidwai, author and political analyst.
00:14Before I bring in the politicians, I want to understand from Rashid and Professor Badri Narayan,
00:20who do you think is deciding the agenda of this election, setting the narrative so far?
00:27Of course, the elections may be two months away.
00:29But Professor Badri Narayan, who is deciding the issues of Uttar Pradesh battle?
00:37See, Maria, I think the elections, there is no one issue going to decide the elections.
00:46There are multiple issues being contested with each other.
00:49On the one hand, opposition is trying to raise issues like SIR and various kinds of issues like that.
00:59But on the other hand, BJP will come up with the governance, with the welfare policies,
01:07and the yogi for the image, especially yogi in Pradesh.
01:10And so, this election is going to be contested between two kinds of narratives.
01:17One is pushed by the opposition, which is based on critiquing the governance of the BJP,
01:23why they're in this kind of SIR, and they want to make a central issue.
01:27But, you know, in the public, whatever we understand,
01:30the issue like Chaddachoni, issue like SIR, are not going to work much.
01:35So, the issue like social justice debates, issue like constitution, regulation, may come again,
01:43and may return back to the elections.
01:46But, you know, the street is going to decide the politics.
01:51So, you know, Professor Badri Narayan, one issue certainly that will resonate is the issue of law and order.
01:58And that's where Yogi Adityanath would have appeared to score much better than the Samajwadi party.
02:06But having said that, let me get an opinion also from Rashid Kidwai.
02:10Rashid, what do you think? Who is setting the agenda?
02:14Well, I think the Uttar Pradesh election revolves around Yogi Adityanath.
02:20Whether he will be the third-time chief minister and a prime minister candidate for 2029 or later,
02:27I mean, for someone, next home minister, whatever his kind of portfolio or profile is going to be,
02:32or he is going to be voted out.
02:34I think in 2017, Mariya, Mr. Abisha worked very hard to bring, you know, smaller groups,
02:42smaller social groups together.
02:44And that worked as a big advantage for the BJP.
02:48Now, those smaller groups are disintegrating.
02:51And Mr. Yogi Adityanath is unable to consolidate.
02:55And that is where I think, you know, Akhilesh Yadav comes in,
03:00because he has come with a very renewed kind of agenda.
03:03It is no longer that my allies, Muslim Yadav, he has come with a PDA,
03:07and he's fighting not a tax.
03:08Yeah, it's PDA.
03:09He's fighting a contest.
03:10Yeah, PDA, the contest is between two personalities.
03:15It's a contest.
03:21You see this as a personality contest.
03:23Sanju Verma, many see this as Akhilesh Yadav setting the agenda.
03:28Be it Chadhava Chori issue or the issue of SIR,
03:32which has also forced Yogi Adityanath to accept that 1 crore 27 lakh Hindu voters were deleted.
03:40So the entire issue of SIR is also being, you know, accepted by the BJP government here,
03:49that there are problems associated with the special intensive revision.
03:54You know, Maria, first and foremost, before coming to the moot point of the debate,
03:58you're looking extremely pretty in that festive attire.
04:02You know, now let me come to the issue at hand.
04:06The main point is this, Maria, that is this going to be a personality-based contest?
04:12Yes.
04:12Because Yogi Adityanath has a very charismatic personality,
04:16and, you know, he has people who either love him or hate him.
04:20You know, there is no middle ground.
04:23I think one of the biggest takeaways from the Lok Sabha 2024 elections for the BJP with respect to Uttar
04:29Pradesh is
04:30that we did not see the non-Jatav Dalit vote bank and the non-Yadav OBC vote bank engaging in
04:40a reverse consolidation
04:41against the BJP, which is what led to, you know, our performance, which was not very flattering.
04:48But since then, many lessons have been learned.
04:50And I think when it comes to the caste matrix,
04:54because you cannot do away with the caste matrix in Uttar Pradesh, no matter what you say,
04:57the caste matrix, the BJP is trying its level best to ensure that
05:09and let's focus on the non-Yadav OBC vote bank,
05:14particularly the Kurnis, the Khushwahas, the Mauryas, the Lodis, the Jats, the Nishats, the Gujjars.
05:20And when it comes to the non-Jatav Dalits,
05:23we want to focus on the Koris, the Dhobis, the Balmiki, so on and so forth.
05:26But last but not the least, I would like to take your audience back to what you said.
05:31I think law and order is a very, very, very important, you know, inflection point in the 2027 Uttar Pradesh
05:39elections.
05:40And don't forget, as you and me speak now,
05:43the equality cases under Yogi Adityanath in the last nine and a half years down 79.9 percent,
05:49robbery cases down 74.2 percent, rape cases down 76 percent, murder cases down 69 percent.
05:57And overall, heinous crimes are down 74.3 percent.
06:01But, Sanjeevama, will you also accept that the larger umbrella that the BJP ensured,
06:07that irrespective of caste, people of Uttar Pradesh,
06:12the Hindus come under the larger umbrella of Hindutva.
06:15That happened in 2017.
06:17That happened in 2022 assembly elections.
06:21That ruptured in 2024 looks by elections.
06:24And you are sensing a further rupture in that in 20, you know, in 2027 assembly elections.
06:33You know, Maria, like I said, will the Hindutva factor...
06:36And that's why you're speaking about specific, specific OBC communities.
06:42You know, Maria, yes, I'll come to that.
06:44That's a very interesting question.
06:46So, you know, let me just summarize it this way.
06:49Point number one, will the Hindutva factor be a very, very important inflection point
06:54in 2027 U.P. assembly elections?
06:56Yes.
06:57Does the BJP have a comparative advantage?
06:59Oh, most certainly yes.
07:01More so after the national spokesperson of the Samajwadi Party, Rajkumar Bhati,
07:06very recently made a despicable statement against Bhagwan Ram and Bhagwan Krishna.
07:12And barring Ram Gopal Yadav, no senior Samajwadi Party leader condemned Rajkumar Bhati.
07:18Has he been expelled from the party? No.
07:20So I think that sends a very negative signal for Akhilesh Yadav,
07:23who now wants to be the newly minted Hindutva poster boy.
07:27But that is not happening.
07:28I want to also focus on one more thing, Maria.
07:31Do you remember in 2025, there was the bipol to the Milikipur constituency from Uttar Pradesh.
07:39It's a scheduled caste. It's a reserved seat with 30% Dalit population.
07:44And the BJP won Milikipur, hands down.
07:47You know, we defeated the son of Avdhesh Prasad, Ajit Prasad.
07:52Chandram Hanu Paswan from the BJP won.
07:55That tells you a very interesting tale.
07:57Because everybody said, oh, Avdhesh Prasad...
07:59I knew you would speak about Milikipur.
08:02Yeah, I knew you would speak about Milikipur.
08:05But we are in 2026, two months to go for 2027 battle.
08:09You have forgotten about MLC elections.
08:11And you have also forgotten that you lost MLC election in Varanasi.
08:16You have forgotten that you lost MLC elections in Gorakhpur.
08:20These are constituencies which matter.
08:23One is Prime Minister Modi's constituency.
08:26The other one is Yogi Adityanath's home turf.
08:30Maria, you know, you knew I would come to Milikipur.
08:33Yes, I know you'll respond to it.
08:35But ma'am, can I quickly...
08:37Can I quickly get a response from the Samajwadi Party spokesperson before I go back?
08:43I'm going to come back to you, ma'am.
08:44I'm just going to come back to you.
08:46The point that was made by Sanju Verma just a few seconds ago with regards to Krishna Aayenge posters which
08:54have Akhilesh Yadav on it.
08:56This hasn't really been a pitch or a play field of the Samajwadi Party.
09:04Your, you know, strengths have largely been around caste arithmetic.
09:09Why is the Samajwadi Party playing on this pitch?
09:15Well, if you clearly listen to what Sanju Verma was saying, you know, this is the exclusivity of the Bharati
09:23Janata Party.
09:24The fundamental difference between the Samajwadi Party and the Bharati Janata Party is that we believe in inclusive politics.
09:31Sanju Verma has taken names of seven, eight castes in Uttar Pradesh.
09:35However, the Samajwadi Party believes that the, you know, the most, you know, the part of society which has deserved,
09:42you know, most attention, they deserve more space.
09:45You know, people have suffered the most during the Bharati Janata Party regime.
09:48We believe when we talk about PDA, we talk about the, you know, the entire people of Uttar Pradesh.
09:55Samajwadi Party says that, you know, the election of 2020...
09:59Krishna, you know, posters, which has Achilles Yadav on it.
10:04See, the statement given by a very close aide of Bharati Janata Party from Madhya Pradesh, you know, derogatory statement
10:15against Bhagavan Krishna,
10:16who is, you know, who is a revered figure in among the Hindus, not just in Hindus, but the people
10:22across the country from different faiths.
10:25Krishnaji is a revered figure for everyone.
10:27And, you know, the statement given by a close aide of Bharati Janata Party with no response from the BJP
10:34leaders criticizing him is actually, you know,
10:37it raises a very serious question, you know what, see, the 2027 election has shown Bharati Janata is going to
10:45show the people of Uttar Pradesh,
10:47it is going to show the BJP that, you know, your government has failed in Uttar Pradesh on every ground,
10:53be it law and order, be it the, you know, employment in Uttar Pradesh, you have promised to give 70
10:58lakh jobs every year.
11:00Now it has been 10 lakhs, 10 years, and where are those jobs? You have promised to, you know, you
11:06have made so many promises to the people of the state,
11:09but you have done nothing on the ground.
11:10For, you know, the religion has been the main basic of the basic principle and the basis of the BJP's
11:17politics.
11:18No, so tell me, tell me what is the main, what will be, what is the main issue, what is
11:24the issue on which the PDA is fighting this battle?
11:28PDA is fighting this battle against the failures of the Bharati Janata Party government.
11:33They have promised to give 70 lakh jobs to citizens of Uttar Pradesh every year, where are those jobs?
11:38They have promised to give free electricity to farmers of Uttar Pradesh, look at the distressed situation of farmers,
11:44especially sugarcane farmers in western Uttar Pradesh, you will come to know what is the real situation.
11:49They will try to make rhetorics, they will try to make slogans, but that is not going to work this
11:53time.
11:53We have seen what has happened in Bharatiya.
11:54Okay, can I say something?
11:56You know, last time, Bas Haider, I visited Ayodhya, was during the consecration ceremony of Ram Temple in 2024,
12:05to now.
12:07Massive infrastructure development in Ayodhya.
12:10It's a city which has been lit up, quite literally.
12:14Bright and shiny, how it looks like right now.
12:17These infrastructure issues will be working in favor of, will go in favor of Yogi Adityanath,
12:26even as we look at the fact that in 2024, it was the Samajwadi Party which won this constituency.
12:33On what cost?
12:35So, Sanjeev Verma, you know, while you talk about...
12:38The question is on what cost?
12:39You may talk about one moment.
12:41Sanjeev Verma, you may talk about...
12:44Yes.
12:45Yes, I'm going to just ask her that question.
12:48The fact that you have lost...
12:50The fact that you have lost, you know, during the Lok Sabha elections,
12:55you have lost during the MLC elections,
12:57isn't that a matter of concern that the issue of Chanda Chodi and Chadhawa Chodi
13:01is actually resonating with the Janata here?
13:05You know, Maria, you are a very smart journalist and let's get one thing very clear.
13:09If you remind me about the fact that we lost the MLC elections from Varanasi,
13:12I will remind you about 2018,
13:15when we lost the by-polls in Gorakhpur, in Fulpur and Kairana.
13:19And in 2019, Lok Sabha elections, we came back with a bang.
13:23So, you know, BJP learns from its defeats.
13:25It's not like the Congress or Samajwari Party
13:28that we come on national television, blame the election commission
13:31and start playing the victim card.
13:33But I want to focus on one thing.
13:35Sugarcane prices came here.
13:37Sugarcane prices today, the fair remunerative prices
13:40in Western Uttar Pradesh for sugarcane,
13:42is 390 rupees per quintal.
13:45It is the highest that it has ever been in the last 30 years.
13:49So the SP spokesperson should do some homework.
13:52And my final point, please, I did not interject you.
13:55I want to say this.
13:56Why I spoke about Milkipur?
13:58Apart from the Dalit population of 30%,
14:01Milkipur is a very cosmopolitan constituency.
14:04And imagine our BJP candidate, Chandra Bhavu Paswan,
14:08defeated Avdesh Prasad's son, Ajit Prasad,
14:11by more than one margin.
14:13Does that qualify for something, yes or no?
14:15And, Maria, will you also talk about this?
14:17If we talk about BJP's loss from Varanasi in the MLC elections,
14:23why is nobody, I have not seen any journalist,
14:26I'm not talking of you, talk about the fact
14:28that the Samajwadi Party...
14:30Think about Milkipur.
14:31Fine enough.
14:32Fine enough.
14:33Samajwadi Party lost from Mainpuri.
14:35The Agra graduates constituency falls in Mainpuri.
14:40Mainpuri is from where Dimpal Yadav is a Lok Sabha representative.
14:44If you want to talk about Varanasi,
14:47talk about why the Samajwadi Party lost
14:49from the Agra graduates constituency,
14:52which is part of Mainpuri.
14:54Does that mean that Dimpal Yadav is not resonating
14:56on the ground any longer with the electorate of Mainpuri?
14:59That is also a question that needs to be asked.
15:01And I want to say...
15:02Abbas, Heather, quickly, 30 seconds.
15:04Well, first of all, if you calculate the inflation
15:07with the sugarcane price in Uttar Pradesh,
15:10you will come to know that this is not an unprecedented price.
15:12Certainly, inflation is rising on a very...
15:15Oh, my God.
15:16What is, oh, my God?
15:17And second thing, I'll also tell you,
15:19Rampur by-election, Sambhal by-election,
15:21if you will not let voters vote,
15:23how come you are saying that, you know,
15:25you have killed the sanctity of the democratic system
15:27in this country?
15:28You are vote-chore.
15:30You have not let...
15:31Okay, I have enough time, just enough time now for...
15:34You have deprived them from the fundamental right.
15:36For Professor Padri Narayal and Rashid Kidwai.
15:38Final comments from both of you.
15:40I have two minutes on the show left now.
15:43Professor Padri Narayal,
15:44it's becoming increasingly clear
15:46that there will be multiple issues.
15:48But what I don't understand,
15:51as a political analyst myself,
15:53is that why did Yogi Adityanath
15:56speak about 1 crore 27 lakh Hindu voters?
16:01The fact is that UPCO has been talking about
16:05multiple issues going wrong with regards to SIR,
16:08be it Pili Bheed,
16:09or in other constituencies.
16:12There has been acceptance of problems
16:14which have been associated with it.
16:16Why did UPCM speak about that number?
16:19Maria, first thing is,
16:21you're very right that this election
16:23is going to be the centre of the Yogi Adityanath governance.
16:28And in that, the law and order
16:30will be the central issue.
16:32But the very interesting,
16:34and Yogi Adityanath is constantly raising
16:36the issue of law and order,
16:37as he's one of the capital,
16:39and per capital.
16:40But one interesting thing,
16:41which you raise about Krishna.
16:43You know, this election,
16:45Krishna is going to be central discourse,
16:48discourse image in this election.
16:51But this is not going to benefit,
16:53and Yogi Adityanath and Atleesh both
16:56will try to mobilize the Hindu public
17:01around this image.
17:03But you know,
17:04the Khaleesh Yadho,
17:05the Samarwadi party,
17:07is not going to get much
17:08from using the Krishna image.
17:11Already Yadho's are a cohesive base vote
17:13for the Samarwadi party.
17:15And in Western UP,
17:16they can mobilize certain Hindu votes.
17:18But you know,
17:18Hindu worship multiple deities.
17:21And so, Yogi,
17:23there are shared of the BJP
17:26in the Krishna world,
17:28in a big way.
17:30And they have also other images.
17:32So, Hindutva is going to again
17:35a central image of this election.
17:37Rashid, please sum up your thoughts here.
17:41Of course, we still have two months to go.
17:43I am in Ayodhya,
17:45which has been quite literally
17:47almost like the epicenter
17:49around which the entire UP politics
17:52has revolved for decades now.
17:56Now, that may no longer be the epicenter
17:59with Ram Temple already in place.
18:02Yogi Adityanath arriving here tomorrow
18:05for the Dipot serve.
18:06He has projected himself,
18:08and rightly so as a man who has delivered.
18:10What do you think will be deciding?
18:14So, Maria, I think my friend
18:16Sanchu Verma's formulation is right,
18:18but her conclusion is wrong.
18:20See, on the caste matrix,
18:23Yogi Adityanath is a big misfit.
18:25See, look at the UGC issue.
18:27The upper caste are up in arms.
18:29The smaller caste groups,
18:31non-Yadav OVCs,
18:32as well as various Dalit groups,
18:34are unhappy.
18:36And Yogi Adityanath is not able to manage.
18:38So, unless the kind of, you know,
18:40Hindutva plan comes in,
18:42and glosses over every other district,
18:45then Yogi is safe.
18:46Otherwise, the BJP is a bit troubled.
18:49Ten seconds, Maria.
18:52You know, I tend to agree
18:54that UGC is a big issue in this election.
18:58And the fact that the government
18:59has told the Supreme Court
19:01that it is considering
19:03setting up a committee to review it
19:05is an indication
19:07and has created further confusion.
19:09Ten seconds to you, Sandhu Verma.
19:11Like always, you get the last word on my show.
19:14Thank you, Maria, for being so gracious.
19:16You know, I just want to say that
19:17let's not lose sight of the woods for the trees.
19:20Today, Lakhnau is an AI hub.
19:23Today, Noida is the IT and electronics hub.
19:26Today, Kanpur is the industrial hub.
19:28And don't forget,
19:29The per capita of Uttar Pradesh
19:31is 50 percent lower
19:32than the national per capita GDP.
19:34Do you know that?
19:35You talk in all sort of crime,
19:38be it murder, kidnapping,
19:39crime against women,
19:40crime against Ghalif, cyber crime.
19:41All right.
19:42Thank you all.
19:42My boss, Haider,
19:43Professor Badri Narayan,
19:44and Rashid Kidwai,
19:45really,
19:46really,
19:47thank you for joining us
19:49on the show tonight.
19:49I'll see you next time.
19:50I'm going to go ahead.