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How Andrew Berry & Todd Monken's view of Shedeur Sanders will factor into the rest of Browns' season
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00:00I'm about 50-50 that the Browns will make a move today.
00:03Okay.
00:03I don't think it's going to be a substantial move.
00:05So that's they could or they couldn't?
00:06Yes.
00:07We've got to see how it plays out for the next two hours.
00:10They could or they couldn't?
00:10Okay, good.
00:11I am 99% sure it won't involve Shador Sanders.
00:16How much?
00:1799.
00:1899?
00:18Yes.
00:19I mean, if you trade, let's say they traded for a quarterback,
00:21the return back, I would imagine it would involve Shador.
00:24Maybe it could involve Deshaun Watson.
00:26Or Dilly Dilly.
00:27Could involve Dylan Gabriel, sure.
00:28Yeah, I mean, it doesn't feel likely that Shador is being traded.
00:32It felt like the Vikings were a real possibility,
00:34not just because Josina said it,
00:36but because it seemed like it made some sense.
00:38But Kirk Cousins makes way more sense.
00:40Yeah, Josina Anderson doing this,
00:43I thought she did a very nice thing there for the Shador camp.
00:46It is apparent that I do think the Shador camp
00:48wants to put a little pressure on the Browns, right?
00:51The idea of trade me or play me.
00:53And then I come back to the idea of
00:55you haven't done enough in the NFL to do this
00:58and the Browns are smart enough to see right through that.
00:59No, but he's definitely better than what you watched last night in Minnesota.
01:02And I can say with certainty he's better than Max Brosmer.
01:06And so, like, if you've got to buy time until you get Kyler Murray back,
01:10like, the Vikings had to make a move at some point today.
01:13They have to make a move at some point.
01:14And so, is that Shador?
01:16Probably not.
01:17But at least his name gets thrown in the ring.
01:20Yeah, like, I think this should be a sobering reminder to Shador's camp,
01:24his newly minted camp with his agent,
01:26that your best path to play is in Cleveland.
01:29And this idea that anyone out there is going to motivate the Browns
01:32for moving off of Shador Sanders is la-la land.
01:35It's nonsensical.
01:37It doesn't make sense after the eight games that he's played.
01:40And there is some good stuff.
01:41You and I like Shador.
01:43I like the playmaking ability.
01:44I think you can get more out of him.
01:47And I certainly think there will be a time this year
01:50where it's going to make sense to gradually move to Shador.
01:54Or there might be an injury where it's just,
01:55you have to put Shador in there again for the long term.
01:58But this idea that Shador, oh, now that he's played on Sunday.
02:02Now, yes, teams are going to see the, what is it,
02:06the fourth quarter play and the overtime play.
02:09They're also going to see he looked non-existent.
02:12He looked like he was not even an NFL quarterback
02:16for the first three quarters of that game.
02:18Guys, NFL teams don't just watch the tape
02:21that happens to be convenient with our desire
02:23to get a draft pick for Shador Sanders.
02:25No, yeah, but there's still, I mean,
02:27there's a difference between what the Vikings situation currently is.
02:31Even the Cardinals, you want to throw them in there.
02:33There's layers to all this stuff.
02:35Does it mean that Shador Sanders deserves a start
02:37on a different roster? No, no.
02:39His best path to playing, you're right,
02:40his best path to playing this year
02:42is waiting out the Deshaun Watson experience.
02:44Do you think the Browns will make a deal today?
02:46I think they'll make some deal.
02:47I think the entire time we've kind of been waiting
02:49for it to be basically just a non-factor of a deal, though.
02:51And so, like, here's the one thing.
02:54If I'm trying to, like, maybe,
02:56I don't even know if the team thinks
02:57they're a playoff team or not this year, though.
02:59That's what makes it so hard.
03:00Like, does Andrew Barry think this team
03:01is in a prime position for the playoffs
03:03and you can't predict when you're good
03:06and he thinks they're good enough
03:07to keep this whole thing going
03:08so he makes some sort of big blockbuster move
03:11to try to satisfy some of the deficiencies they have?
03:15Or is he really all about next year,
03:18the way they've been kind of signaling to us
03:19for, I don't know, seven, eight months now?
03:21Yeah, I know people have talked about...
03:23I just don't know.
03:23Can the Browns trade for a quarterback today?
03:26Or can they trade a quarterback today?
03:27I just continue to come back to
03:30what's the quarterback that changes the math
03:32for the Browns?
03:33Like, do I think Daniel Jones
03:35might give you a better output
03:37than what Deshaun has given you
03:38the first nine games of this season
03:41or eight games of the season?
03:42And then, obviously, yesterday or Sunday
03:44was Shador.
03:45Yeah, maybe.
03:46But would I be comfortable with Daniel Jones
03:48being your starter going into next year?
03:50No.
03:50No, probably not.
03:52And again, that's why we have
03:53all the Connor Orr think pieces
03:55and all these people that want to put
03:56bad quarterbacks on our team
03:57and want to tell us
03:58that we can do better
03:59than Deshaun and Shador.
04:00And it's like, I just don't know right now
04:03what the Browns are thinking in their head.
04:05Are they really thinking
04:05you can't predict when you're good
04:07and we got to strike while the iron's hot?
04:09You're five and four
04:09and you're in position for the postseason.
04:11So we got to take some sort of big swing,
04:13maybe even bigger name
04:14than we're anticipating.
04:15Or are they just going to say,
04:17guys, the year is what it is.
04:18We're building this thing towards next year
04:19and we don't want to do anything
04:21basically rash here.
04:22But I think you're dealing
04:23with the kind of extremes.
04:25It's extremes.
04:25I think there's a play
04:27right down the middle.
04:28I think finding a blocking tight end
04:30so that I don't have to watch
04:31Harold Fannin Jr.
04:33not get a meaningful touch
04:34and a meaningful look
04:35until, I don't know, overtime.
04:37That feels like a,
04:39hey, we can help ourselves now.
04:40We can set a young player up for success
04:42and make our offense more dangerous.
04:43Well, on the other side of that too,
04:45Jerry Judy is about as big of a piece
04:47in all this as well, right?
04:48Jerry Judy has helped this team out
04:50in multiple games.
04:51Not only winning,
04:52but you also saw this last weekend.
04:53They didn't win the game,
04:55but you're not in that spot
04:56if not for Jerry Judy's big catch.
04:58Are they going to say,
04:59Jerry Judy, goodbye?
04:59Is another team even going to think
05:01about Jerry Judy that way?
05:02Are they going to say,
05:03Jerry Judy, goodbye?
05:04Or are they going to say,
05:04no, we need him
05:05because he's going to matter
05:06for a game down the line?
05:08Like this all goes into
05:09their bigger picture thought process
05:10and what they're doing
05:11with the five and four start
05:12versus whether or not
05:14they think this year
05:15is just kind of a throwaway year.
05:16Is Shador on the table
05:18you think for today?
05:19Yeah, I think he is.
05:20Do I think it's going to happen?
05:21No, but do I feel like
05:22the Browns,
05:23if somebody called
05:23and offered them something
05:24that was substantial,
05:25they would do it?
05:26Yeah, I do.
05:27Yeah, I do.
05:28But what's substantial?
05:28I think this is where
05:29we get lost in the sauce here
05:30of like what's substantial.
05:31He asked if I thought
05:33he'd get traded,
05:33or not if I thought
05:34he'd get traded,
05:34but are the Browns
05:35open to those offers?
05:37The answer is yes.
05:38Well, no, no,
05:38but I think my point is
05:39I think substantial
05:39means something different
05:40to everyone else.
05:41So what does substantial
05:42mean to you?
05:43I think a fourth round pick
05:43is substantial.
05:44Okay.
05:45I think any pick
05:46that you could look back
05:47and say we did better
05:48than the fifth round pick
05:49we originally spent on him,
05:51that I think is substantial.
05:52So I don't think
05:54a sixth or a seventh round pick
05:55is substantial,
05:55and I don't think
05:56even a fifth round pick
05:56is substantial.
05:57I think a fourth round pick
06:00for Shador would tell me
06:01they just wanted
06:02to get off Shador.
06:03Like that was a,
06:05hey, this was a price
06:05we have to meet
06:06so we can substantiate
06:07this kind of trade,
06:09but in the end,
06:10anybody that goes above
06:11a fifth rounder,
06:12we're just going to,
06:13we're happy to be out
06:14of the Shador business,
06:15which I don't know
06:17whether that's the case.
06:18Like I don't know
06:19if they love everything
06:20that comes with Shador
06:21and constantly having
06:22to tell his people
06:23to knock it off
06:24and that kind of stuff.
06:25I mean, if they truly
06:25believed in him
06:26as a player
06:26as of right now,
06:27he'd be playing.
06:29Not really.
06:30I mean, they would
06:31truly believe
06:32he's a second year player.
06:33Like, I don't know
06:34about that.
06:35I don't know.
06:36I do.
06:36I've seen enough
06:36from Deshaun Watson
06:37to know that if they
06:38truly believed
06:38in Shador Sanders
06:39as a player
06:40and they thought
06:40he really was
06:41really, really good
06:42at this
06:43and had an extremely
06:44bright future,
06:45he'd be playing.
06:45Unless they look
06:46at last year
06:47as a year
06:47that you have
06:48to write off
06:48because he received
06:49next to no coaching
06:50because the coach
06:51didn't want him there
06:51and he didn't get
06:52meaningful reps
06:53until halfway
06:54through the season.
06:54No, we agree on that.
06:55But also,
06:56if they really did
06:56believe in him
06:57and gave him
06:58the pass
06:59and everything
07:00appreciated with that,
07:00if they really
07:01believed in him,
07:02Deshaun hasn't played
07:03well enough
07:03to keep this job
07:04if they really
07:04believed in Shador.
07:05Yes, he has.
07:05He's won.
07:06He's won,
07:06but again,
07:07they look at these
07:08things analytically.
07:09They don't look at
07:09these things at five
07:10and three
07:10and say that's enough.
07:11They look at these
07:11things as he's
07:16to differentiate
07:17they is in the
07:18front office
07:19or the analyst
07:19and Todd Munkin.
07:21Todd Munkin's
07:22looking at Shador
07:22and Deshaun
07:23and saying...
07:23But we're talking
07:23about the front office
07:24as far as the value for Shador.
07:26He would make
07:30a change to Shador.
07:32He cannot substantiate
07:33moving on.
07:33To me,
07:34this crystallized
07:35yesterday during the show
07:37and I didn't bring it up
07:38because we had
07:38a million things going on.
07:40This is 2014
07:41all over again.
07:43This is Brian Hoyer
07:44whose stats
07:45didn't look pretty
07:46but the Browns
07:46were a seven-win team
07:48and somebody
07:49in that front office
07:50or somebody
07:51in that organization
07:53said,
07:54all right,
07:54play the kid.
07:55And it completely
07:56put the kibosh
07:57on that season.
07:58They had a little bit
07:59of a rough patch
08:00and they immediately
08:02put their head
08:02between their tails
08:03and forced Johnny Menzel
08:05out on the field
08:06and it killed
08:07that team's chances
08:08of playing.
08:08Sure, yeah.
08:09And that's what's
08:10at stake here.
08:11Like, you don't believe
08:12in Deshaun.
08:13I don't believe in Deshaun
08:14beyond this year.
08:15I don't really believe
08:15in Deshaun
08:16much beyond the fact
08:18that I think he's
08:18won five games
08:19this year.
08:20But it's apparent
08:21that like right now
08:22the guys are responding
08:24enough to win these games.
08:25And I think that is
08:26more powerful
08:27than any analytic
08:28you can have
08:29in that front office.
08:30So the front office
08:31can feel the way
08:31they want to
08:32about any player there.
08:33You have to respect
08:34the locker room.
08:35You have to expect
08:35or you have to respect
08:36that guys in that locker room
08:38respect five wins.
08:39That's why the
08:40Deshaun-Shador
08:41conversation matters so much.
08:43There might be a time
08:44where it makes sense
08:45where you can
08:46help Shador
08:46by setting up
08:47to succeed.
08:49But like
08:50right now
08:50it feels like
08:51you would be using
08:52the one game
08:53as an excuse
08:54to bench Deshaun
08:55when I think there's
08:56a lot of people
08:56who feel five and three.
08:57We agree with the idea
08:59that you should stay
09:00with Deshaun Watson.
09:01That's not...
09:01We discussed that
09:02all day yesterday.
09:03I agreed with you then.
09:04We went down
09:04that whole entire road.
09:05This is whether or not
09:06you think the Browns
09:07believe in Shador.
09:07Well, they were going
09:08to go to him
09:09in week three.
09:09If they had lost
09:10that Tampa Bay game
09:11they believed in enough
09:12that they were going
09:13to go to him then.
09:14Yeah, but they obviously
09:15didn't.
09:16Well, they didn't
09:16because Deshaun
09:18made it tough for them.
09:19They've had opportunities
09:20if they wanted to
09:20they could make this week
09:22about going to Shador Sanders
09:23if they truly believed in him.
09:24The same way that again
09:25if you truly believed in him
09:27this wouldn't have been
09:28the story that it's become.
09:30It would have been
09:30completely different.
09:31And so it's fine.
09:32You can say you like him
09:33but I think like is way
09:34different than truly believed in.
09:35I think where the Browns are
09:37is they like him.
09:38And I think even like myself
09:39like I mean I like him
09:41but if I'm trying to put
09:42this whole puzzle together
09:43is who is Shador Sanders
09:44as an NFL quarterback
09:45I feel like I got the outer edges
09:47figured out pretty well
09:47but I don't know
09:49the inside part of it
09:49and I'm still working
09:50to figure that out myself
09:51and I feel like that's
09:52where the Browns are.
09:53So would they love more time
09:54to try to figure that out?
09:55Sure.
09:55I don't know that they're
09:56going to have that necessarily.
09:57Yeah, I just don't think
09:59you have to make
09:59that decision today.
10:00You might have to make
10:01that decision this offseason.
10:03Like I think there's
10:04enough noise
10:05enough drama
10:06enough everything
10:07and it's not
10:08I don't mean to put that
10:09just on Shador
10:09it's Deshaun too.
10:11That guy's a drama queen
10:12and that guy
10:14clearly still thinks
10:15that he is 2020
10:16Deshaun Watson
10:17and so
10:18and even if it's not him
10:20even if it's just their camps
10:21there's just so much noise
10:22for quarterbacks
10:23who in the end
10:24aren't fulfilling
10:25enough good football
10:27to put up
10:28with the noise outside
10:29even if all it is
10:31is their camps
10:32making a lot of waves.
10:32So we
10:34that's just what
10:34but you don't need
10:35to make that decision
10:36right now.
10:37Like one of the biggest
10:38conversations you and I
10:39have had about Deshaun
10:40in general
10:41has been
10:43you know
10:43all right
10:43talk to me
10:44when you've played
10:4412 games
10:45and by the way
10:46he didn't do that
10:47he got concussed
10:48I don't want to put
10:49that on him
10:49you know
10:50concussions happen
10:51to everybody
10:51but like
10:52all right
10:52you need to prove
10:53you can stay healthy
10:54you need to prove
10:55you can stay in it
10:56that's the biggest reason
10:57to keep Shador
10:59and I would be furious
11:00if the Browns traded
11:01Shador for a fourth
11:02round pick
11:02and he went to
11:03Arizona
11:04or Miami
11:05or the Jets
11:06or wherever
11:07and he started
11:08playing good football
11:10and this season
11:12and Deshaun got hurt
11:13and I had to watch
11:13Dylan Gabriel play
11:14and Dylan didn't look good
11:15I would be furious
11:16with the Browns
11:17that is essentially
11:17what's happening
11:18with the Cardinals
11:18right now
11:19you know
11:19they trade away
11:20Percet to the Ravens
11:21and then what happens
11:22Gardner Minshew
11:22gets injured
11:23excuse me
11:24and now they're in a spot
11:24where Carson Beck
11:25is going to be playing
11:26like what you're describing
11:27is essentially
11:27what happened to Arizona
11:28and like I listen
11:29I agree with you
11:30I would be pissed
11:31about that as well
11:32but you know
11:33if they look at it
11:33and say
11:34Shador's not starting
11:35at all next year
11:35probably won't be
11:36on the team
11:36next year with us
11:37and if they look
11:38at this season
11:39as Deshaun's season
11:40and if Deshaun gets injured
11:41they're just
11:42crap out of luck
11:43as is
11:43I don't know
11:44maybe a fifth rounder
11:45fourth rounder
11:45maybe something like that
11:46is enticing enough to them
11:47I would be surprised
11:48if it happens
11:49but again
11:49they're all about value
11:50and they're all about
11:51whether or not
11:52Shador can actually
11:53be something in the future
11:54for them
11:54if they've decided
11:55he can't
11:56then what are we waiting on
11:57I understand the concept
11:58of being value based
11:59and having a line
12:00in the sand
12:01and all that crap
12:02you were five and four
12:03you've been competitive
12:04Deshaun has played
12:06well enough
12:06to have you at five
12:07and three
12:08before his concussion
12:10but you need
12:11some real insurance
12:12and Dylan Gabriel
12:13isn't it
12:14I don't care
12:14where they were drafted
12:15Shador gives you something
12:17like
12:17this
12:18absolutely
12:19this probably
12:20will be a completely
12:21different quarterback room
12:22next year
12:22I would be furious
12:23if you traded Shador
12:25on the value
12:26sorry
12:27on the concept
12:28of value
12:29when you've got
12:30a chance
12:31and a path
12:31to a playoff spot
12:32and Shador
12:33might end up
12:34being the key to that
12:35yeah I mean
12:35luckily for us
12:36in this convo
12:36for people that want
12:37to see Shador here
12:38it doesn't seem like
12:39the NFL world
12:40is really reaching out
12:41to go ahead
12:41and try to get Shador
12:42and if I'm Shador
12:43what are you going to do
12:44get traded to a team
12:45maybe it is Arizona
12:46one of those type teams
12:47although that wouldn't
12:47make much sense
12:48because they're
12:48going downhill fast
12:50but like
12:50what team are you going to
12:51where you get a chance
12:52to start
12:54nowhere
12:54I don't see anywhere
12:55nowhere
12:56yeah nowhere
12:56and so like
12:57it's in his best interest
12:58the same way
12:59it's been in his best interest
13:00the entire time
13:00to be here
13:02but again
13:02we'll see what Andrew Barry does