00:00The Athenaeum is a very, very special hotel that used to be the home of all media stars.
00:04Russell Crowe stayed there.
00:06No way, really?
00:06Yeah, yeah, when he was filming Gladiator.
00:09Come on!
00:10Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?
00:13Are you not entertained?
00:23Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by Entrepreneur.
00:25I'm your host, Sean Malcheff.
00:27This is a Cali BBQ Media production, coming to you from London.
00:32This might be one of our most special episodes.
00:35We started this podcast back in 2022 with a deep belief in storytelling, in hospitality, and in technology.
00:42And today I am coming to you with the CEO, his name is Alistair Darby, of Sir Richard Sutton Limited.
00:52Well done.
00:53And we are at the boardroom.
00:55Yep.
00:55In what part of London is this?
00:57We're in Soho.
00:58We're in Soho.
00:59Yeah, so kind of creative center of London.
01:01So we are sitting on top of Soho.
01:05I have been doing content for a long time.
01:08I own restaurants in San Diego, California, 18 years.
01:11But I had a deep belief that I wasn't alone as a restaurateur and that if I asked questions and
01:16if I leveraged technology, I would be able to have interesting conversations that would not only benefit myself, but eventually,
01:23hopefully, someone listened, someone watched.
01:25And I'm thankful to Toast, our technology partner who has brought us to London to talk to incredible London restaurateurs
01:32heading to Dublin to go tell Toast stories again.
01:36But more importantly, magic happens when you tell stories.
01:40And would you tell the story of what happened yesterday?
01:44Yeah.
01:45Let's start there.
01:46Well, hospitality is a dream, isn't it?
01:48There am I having breakfast quietly yesterday morning in the Athenaeum Hotel and then you guys joined next to me.
01:54You're full of good cheer.
01:55And I'm really intrigued what you guys do.
01:58So we get talking and then suddenly we discover that we have a shared acquaintance, Scott Turner of Auden Hospitality.
02:04And you discover that I'm CEO of Sertia Sudden Limited that owns the Athenaeum Hotel.
02:09And in about three minutes flat, we're having a conversation about hospitality and everything that's wonderful about it.
02:14So there you are.
02:15That is classic hospitality, isn't it?
02:18And less than 24 hours, I'm sitting in your boardroom with my team filming.
02:21Yeah, that's pretty efficient.
02:24Pretty efficient.
02:24You guys are on it, that's for sure.
02:26Can you give us high level, what does the company do?
02:30Well, we're a very longstanding family-owned company.
02:32So we've been in existence for about a thousand years.
02:35A thousand years.
02:36Yeah.
02:37And there's a bit of a story behind that, but I can't quite give that one away yet.
02:40But anyway, so we've been around for a thousand years.
02:42And the company, by virtue of, originally we were farmers, landowners, but of course we own land in London.
02:48So what was formerly farmland in Mayfair, for example, is now hotels.
02:53So Sertia Sudden Limited owns four hotels, two in London, two out, one in Windsor and one in Bath.
02:59We own property in Mayfair and Soho, which is largely offices, but also retail and some restaurants.
03:06We leased restaurants.
03:08And we've got two farming estates in the UK.
03:10And for some kind of random reason, we own some farmland in Illinois.
03:14In Illinois, fantastic.
03:15Yeah.
03:16So we are growers of maize and soya.
03:18Brilliant.
03:19Let's talk about the hotel properties, first off.
03:23What are we building?
03:26Okay.
03:27So the hotel story here is really interesting because originally Sir Richard Sutton owned hotel properties, but didn't run them.
03:36So they were let to various people.
03:38And we acquired three regional hotels about five years ago.
03:42And post-COVID, for reasons various, we had the opportunity to take a number of those hotels back into management.
03:48So, you know, step away from the hotel operators.
03:50And so only about three years ago, we moved with four of our hotels from having them run by a
03:56hotel management company to us running them directly.
03:59The Park Lane Hotel, which is our biggest hotel, is run by Marriott on our behalf.
04:03We've got a very close relationship with Marriott, but we're running three because we sold a regional hotel last year.
04:09We're running two hotels in the provinces, Bath, Windsor, and one in London, the Atheneum, directly.
04:14And I joined the company in December of 2023 with a brief.
04:19I've been all my life an operator.
04:21So, you know, I'm not really an asset manager guy.
04:24I'm an operator.
04:25So I'm hospitality through and through.
04:27And I was brought on board to help the company in many ways, but particularly to drive the operational agenda
04:33in our hotels.
04:33And how do we move from being a longstanding kind of asset manager of properties and farm and hotels to
04:40being a hospitality company?
04:42So, you know, I've been on board now for two, coming up on three years.
04:46And we're kind of right in the heat of a journey to become a greater and greater hospitality operator.
04:52And we've done, we're doing some refurbishments of the two hotels out in the regions.
04:56We've finished the Francis in Bath.
04:58We're soon to finish to the castle.
05:00And we are on the verge of the next, even bigger one, which is the Atheneum.
05:04And then following on from that will be an update to the Sheraton.
05:09So we're kind of learning.
05:10We're learning as we go.
05:12And we are, which sounds crazy, but you're always learning, aren't you?
05:16So our next big project is the Atheneum.
05:18And I don't know whether you had a chance, but we've dipped our toe in the water at the Atheneum
05:22because we've just converted to, created three brand new rooms at the very top of the hotel.
05:28I don't know whether you've seen them.
05:29I would love to see them.
05:30Oh, they're amazing.
05:31We'll go before we leave.
05:33Yeah, please do.
05:33And we'll film it and we'll include the B-roll.
05:34Yeah, please do.
05:35We would love to.
05:36Please ask Edward, the manager, to show you them.
05:38So these are just amazing rooms that we've created at the top of the hotel, overlooking the Royal Park, Green
05:44Park.
05:44There used to be a kind of a residence lounge that wasn't very effective, but we've turned them into two
05:49beautiful suites.
05:51And they are the beginning of the next step of the Atheneum.
05:56So because we want to upgrade the hotel.
05:58It's a wonderful hotel.
05:59The rooms were refurbished a while ago now.
06:02They stood the test of time, but they need investment.
06:04And so if you get a chance to see these new rooms, you'll get a flavor of where we're kind
06:09of thinking going forward.
06:10And the Atheneum is a very, very special hotel.
06:13It's had a long, long-standing reputation as a proud independent hotel that used to be the home of all
06:19media stars.
06:20So Russell Crowe stayed there.
06:23No way, really?
06:24Yeah, yeah.
06:24Amazing.
06:25When he was filming Gladiator.
06:26Come on.
06:27Are you serious?
06:27Yeah, I'm serious.
06:28That is incredible.
06:29Spielberg stayed and did some editing there.
06:32Yeah, yeah.
06:32And so all sorts of stuff going on.
06:35Indeed, Russell Crowe got told by the manager at the time that he needed to tidy up his room because
06:38it was really stressful.
06:39Stop it.
06:39No, no, really.
06:39Come on.
06:40Really.
06:40That is brilliant.
06:41What a story.
06:43So it's always had a very special place in the kind of landscape of London.
06:47And we want to take it on to that next stage.
06:49And so there is a kind of weird serendipity here or loop that I'm sitting at breakfast next morning to
06:55guys who are immediate.
06:57Which is what the athlete has always been about.
06:58It's, for me, it's fascinating speaking with you and doing some research before this interview to find a company that's
07:09as old as it is, that thinks in decades and not in quarters.
07:16Can you walk me through the process of being an operator but having to have a vision for a hundred
07:21-year-old asset?
07:22Something that will stand the test of time.
07:26Well, I'm going to be really honest with you.
07:27This is my fourth CEO role.
07:29The first two CEO roles, most of my career has been in public companies.
07:35Yeah.
07:35Quarterly.
07:36Yeah, yeah.
07:37Quarterly.
07:37Oh, my God.
07:40How can you run a freehold hospitality business thinking quarterly?
07:43You cannot.
07:44It's just insane.
07:45It's insane.
07:46Yeah.
07:47So coming to SRSL, this is my fourth CEO role.
07:51It's the best job I've ever had.
07:52And it's the best job I've ever had for a million and one reasons.
07:54I'm working with great people.
07:56The, you know, the family are great.
07:58The owners are fantastic.
07:59Incredibly patient.
08:00You know, the owners are not thinking about tomorrow.
08:02They're thinking about in 50 years' time.
08:04It's amazing.
08:05You know, what are my, what are our grandchildren going to inherit?
08:08And so, you know, we're just about to embark, and we talked about it earlier, a project to demolish a
08:14building we own in Mayfair and build a brand new hotel.
08:17And, you know, that's a hotel that's going to be there for a hundred years.
08:20So we've just made a decision.
08:22It's going to be our biggest investment in our 10-year plan.
08:25And, you know, we had a big debate about, you know, considering geopolitics at the moment, was it the right
08:30thing to do?
08:31But sitting with the board, and we have family members on the board, and, you know, somebody said quite correctly,
08:37said, look, we're thinking about the world as it sits today.
08:41This is a hotel that's not going to open for three and a half years, and it's then going to
08:45stand there for a hundred years.
08:46So why are we preoccupying ourselves with today?
08:50We are building something for the future.
08:52And, you know, lots of people talk about, you know, we care about the long term, but they just don't,
08:55they don't act that way.
08:57No.
08:57Well, this company absolutely thinks that way, and it is an incredible privilege.
09:01I mean, you know what it's like.
09:03This short-termism, how can you ever build anything great if you're constantly looking about the next quarterly update?
09:09You couldn't be more true.
09:11And anybody, I mean, we built a media company on top of our restaurant business, and it took five years
09:16for us to get any traction.
09:18And those five years were difficult years, but we had a deep belief in that this wasn't a quarterly project.
09:25We weren't looking for a return on investment starting a podcast.
09:28We now have 18 different podcasts, 18 different shows that we put on.
09:32We have incredible partnerships.
09:33We work with some of the biggest restaurant technology brands.
09:36I'm sitting here having a conversation with you thinking of what will it look like for my son and my
09:43daughter, and that's why my son and my daughter travel with us.
09:45It's so important to think beyond what is going to happen just by the end of this year.
09:53Whether you're a global restaurant powerhouse or local independent like us here at Cali BBQ, we all want the same
09:59thing, sustainable growth.
10:01And let me tell you, PepsiCo is a partner built to do exactly that, help you build a sustainable business.
10:07As operators, we get it.
10:08We know that digital matters.
10:10Online ordering, third-party apps, digital menus, online visibility.
10:14It's a lot, and it's incredibly hard to prioritize when you're just trying to take care of your kitchen and
10:20manage a busy team.
10:21But a few small digital tweaks can have a massive impact, especially when you have the right team backing you
10:27up.
10:27That's where PepsiCo's Digital Lab stands apart.
10:31This is an in-house team built specifically for restaurant operators.
10:35They use proven media services and AI-backed menu optimization to drive what actually matters.
10:41More guests, smarter digital experiences, and more profitable online orders.
10:46Just look at the numbers from last year alone.
10:48And the absolute best part?
10:50These digital lab services are available completely free to Pepsi restaurant partners of any size.
10:56If you're a Pepsi customer, stop waiting.
10:58Talk to your Pepsi rep today or click the link in the show notes below to learn how to unlock
11:03your growth advantage.
11:04Let's keep that momentum going.
11:09Well, I'll tell you a story.
11:11I love a story.
11:12We started this show to tell stories, please.
11:14I'll tell you a story about a pivotal moment in my career where I really, quite young, got the point
11:19about long-term versus short-term.
11:20I was chief executive of a company called Mitchells & Butler's, owned 1,600 pubs in the UK.
11:26Wow.
11:26And we owned 50 bars.
11:28All the same brand or multiple brands?
11:29No, about 16 different brands.
11:3016 different brands.
11:3116 different brands.
11:32Big in the UK.
11:34But we had 50 bars in Germany.
11:37And really successful kind of bars, all-day bars.
11:40And they traded from breakfast all the way through to the evening.
11:42And it was the only brand in our whole business that did breakfast well.
11:46We'd always try to do breakfast in pubs.
11:48We never cracked it.
11:48But these Alex bars in Germany did breakfast really well.
11:51So I went out to Germany, and I met the guy who was running it, a guy called Bernd Rieger,
11:55who was an ex-hotelier.
11:57And I said, come on, Bernd, how did you get your breakfast business so successful, like 30% of your
12:04trade per day?
12:05And so we went out to one of the bars, and he showed me the, as he called it, the
12:09buffet.
12:09He couldn't say buffet in English.
12:12He showed me the buffet, and this was a magnificent display set up on the bar.
12:16You know, there was fresh salad and cold meats, and there was scrambled egg.
12:20And at the weekend, you could trade up to get kind of sparkling wine and orange juice and all that
12:24kind of stuff.
12:25Really, really successful.
12:26And I said, Bernd, this is just absolutely amazing.
12:28It's the best buffet I've ever seen, even better than the hotel.
12:31And he said, that's what we set out to achieve.
12:33And I said, how did you make it successful?
12:36And he's a great guy.
12:37He's got a twinkle in his eye.
12:38And he looked at me, and he said, Alistair, when we started, we wasted a lot of food.
12:46And I looked at him, and I just thought, that is just genius.
12:49He said, we set up the buffet from day one, when we only had one customer, with the entire spread.
12:56And he said, then we had one customer, then we had two customers, then we had three customers.
12:59We never gave up until we built this reputation.
13:02And now everybody else is chasing to catch up.
13:05He said, but we were wasting hideous amounts of food.
13:08He said, and for me, that was that kind of moment of just genius, which is, this is about long
13:13-term.
13:13What's your long-term objective?
13:15How do you get through the pain?
13:16And his pain was, we're going to have to throw food away.
13:19But we're not going to open up with a, you know, kind of limited buffet that people come in and
13:23go, hmm, not very good, is it?
13:25Did you know that Toast powers over 140,000 restaurants across the United States, Canada, and UK?
13:32It's an incredible company.
13:34I'm on the Toast customer advisory board.
13:36They are proud sponsors of this show, Restaurant Influencers.
13:39We couldn't do it without their support.
13:41They power our barbecue restaurants in San Diego.
13:43If you have questions about Toast, if you're thinking about bringing Toast on to be your primary technology partner at
13:50your restaurants, please reach out to me.
13:52I'm happy to get a local Toast representative to take care of you.
13:56You can reach me at Sean P. Welchef on Instagram.
13:59Once again, thank you to Toast for believing in the power of technology, the power of storytelling, the power of
14:05hospitality.
14:06Back to the show.
14:08What kind of leadership lessons have you taken from the public companies to the private companies to now what you're
14:13building?
14:16Honestly?
14:17Yeah.
14:18Public companies talk about, this is a term I absolutely hate, by the way, our most important asset is our
14:24people.
14:27Ironic coming from the book.
14:28Number one.
14:29Our most important asset is people.
14:30And I've found that, broadly speaking, most public companies, they talk a load of hokum about their attitude towards people.
14:37Yeah.
14:38And if you're in hospitality, rule 101 is get your people right.
14:43I mean, just work with your people, love your people, support them in every way you can, and so on
14:50and so forth.
14:50And I often say that my job as a CEO, I don't know much about American football, but I do
14:56use it as an analogy.
14:57A lot of people say, well, isn't a CEO's job to be the quarterback?
15:00And I say, no, no, no, that is not the CEO's job.
15:04The CEO's job is to be the linebacker because the quarterback is the person serving a drink in a hotel
15:10or brewing a cup of coffee or tidying a bedroom.
15:13And my job as a CEO is to make sure that they don't get sacked.
15:17And, you know, you can call it servant leadership or you can call it inversion of the pyramid, whatever you
15:22want to call it.
15:22But a CEO's job is to protect and enable the people at the front line to do a brilliant job.
15:30So I spend all of my time thinking about how do I facilitate, enable, free up, make space, protect, guard
15:39my people so they can do what's really important.
15:41And what's really important is their interaction with the guest.
15:45So, you know, I mean, I could be in a hospitality all my life, but it just comes automatically that
15:51if I walk into a hotel and there's a bit of litter on the floor, which is blown in, I'll
15:54just pick it up.
15:55I won't say to somebody, will you pick that rubbish up?
15:57Or, you know, years ago, I went into a pub on a hot, sunny day where everybody had a load
16:01of drink in the beer garden and one of the sinks was absolutely full of sick.
16:05And, you know, so I went into the back and, you know, my suit got a pair of rubber gloves
16:08and I cleaned up the sink because the manager was really busy.
16:11There was a queue at the bar and he said, what are you doing?
16:12And I said, look, you're busy.
16:13We're all part of the same team.
16:15Bit of a problem in the loos.
16:16I'll sort it out.
16:17I didn't say to him, you need to sort out the sink.
16:20Yeah.
16:22And that for me is the difference between private and public.
16:25I think, I'm not saying that all leaders in public companies don't take people seriously, but I think there is
16:30a lot of flim flam talked about people.
16:32And I think that Simon Sinek's famous quote that you're not put in charge of people, people are put in
16:41your charge is hugely powerful.
16:44And it matters more than anything in hospitality because, you know, we've got people working night shifts or 11 o
16:53'clock at night, you know, dealing with, you know, guests who maybe have had a really jolly time but come
16:56home a bit pissed and they fall down, you know, fall down in the lobby and you've got to help
16:59them.
17:00You know, we forget that while we're all tucked up at home, having a great time, relaxing at home, you
17:06know, our people are doing an amazing job for guests.
17:08So it's all about people.
17:10And it is about my job is to do everything I can to enable them to be happy, content, safe.
17:16Safety is a really big thing for me.
17:18And then able to get on and do a great job and to feel really respected.
17:22How important is curiosity as the CEO?
17:27Well, that's a great question.
17:29My longstanding mentor, who's a Lancastrian, so he comes up from north in the UK, he always used to say
17:36to me that when he recruited anybody, the absolute skill he wanted was natural curiosity.
17:42Really?
17:42Natural curiosity.
17:43He said he would always employ somebody who had clearly had natural curiosity, who would look at a situation and
17:50narrow their eyes and go, hang on a minute, is that really the case?
17:55And that's why I'm fascinated in data, but particularly customer data.
18:03Yes.
18:04Because I've learned through my career that you can ask a guest or a customer a question and you'll get
18:09an answer.
18:10But it will absolutely not be the proper answer.
18:15It's the instant answer.
18:16And are you going to probe and inquire and find out more?
18:20The follow-up question.
18:21The follow-up question.
18:21Yeah.
18:22I was at many years ago.
18:23I worked for a spirits company and a lot of spirits are sold at Christmas and a lot of them
18:30are sold in supermarkets.
18:31And one of the things that spirit companies get a bit overexcited about is you've got to sell your whiskey
18:36in some form of gift packaging.
18:38So it can be given as a gift to Uncle Harry.
18:43But the buyer of these gifts is generally the shopper, a bit stereotypical, but generally the housewife.
18:48Not always.
18:49But anyway, so this was years ago.
18:51We're having a big debate about whether we should put this particular brand in a square box or the marketeers
18:59wanted it in an oval tin that looked much cooler.
19:04Leave it to the marketeers.
19:06Yeah, leave it to the marketeers.
19:07The sales team didn't want the tin because it was more expensive and the marketeers wanted the tin because it
19:11looked really cool.
19:12Classic.
19:12Yeah.
19:13So it was a big debate.
19:14So we then get together with a group of shoppers and we put the two gift packs on the table
19:20and we say to the women, right, of these two, which is the one you prefer?
19:25And they all to a woman said, the tin.
19:28The tin.
19:29And the sales guy who was in the meeting, he said, oh, hang on a minute, hang on a minute.
19:34Isn't it really difficult to wrap a tin?
19:37And these women were outraged.
19:38They looked at him and said, are you crazy?
19:42Wait, we don't even wrap the, we know how to wrap anything, including a bottle.
19:47But so the researcher said, well, why do you like the tin then?
19:50And they said, I'll tell you what, do you know why?
19:52Because we would buy that, we'd take the bottle out and wrap it and we'd keep the tin for the
19:56spaghetti.
19:58It's a double gift.
19:59Yeah, yeah.
20:00It's a double gift.
20:01To put the spaghetti in.
20:02So the marketeer couldn't make their mind up whether this was a good thing or a bad thing.
20:05Yeah.
20:06This beautiful preview packaging was going to be in the pantry with the spaghetti in it or the linguine.
20:10But this was, for me, a classic example of just do not make an assumption that somebody can't wrap something
20:16or whatever.
20:17They're going to look at something totally differently.
20:19So I think that curiosity and thinking through what does your guest really want.
20:27I mean, we've just been laughing about how do you work the blooming lights out?
20:30Yeah, exactly.
20:30I like to switch on the lights in this room.
20:31I was being a bit stupid.
20:33But hotel rooms and so on.
20:34Hotel rooms, for sure.
20:35Just why do we do that?
20:37Yeah.
20:37Why do we make it more so difficult?
20:39Yeah.
20:39When, you know, it's supposed to be frictionless and you want to get to your room and relax and none
20:44of that kind of stuff.
20:45And not have to read a kind of app-driven guide to how you switch on the lights.
20:50So, yeah, I think curiosity is absolutely the number one thing.
20:54How important is listening?
20:56As a CEO.
20:58And how do you listen?
20:59What?
21:00How do you listen?
21:01What?
21:02Are you able to listen?
21:04Oh, yeah.
21:04I'm a big listener.
21:05I'm married to a coach, an executive coach.
21:08Okay.
21:09So my wife, Alex, her superpower is listening.
21:13She is just the most brilliant active listener I have ever met.
21:20I love her to bits.
21:21And she will, I don't know how she does it, but she doesn't just listen to stuff.
21:25She somehow is able to read, read in her head what lies behind what's just been said.
21:31And so, of course, I mean, I've always been a pretty good listener.
21:33But then when I got married to Alex, I became, I had no choice but to become an absolutely bloody
21:38brilliant listener.
21:39And I think listening is everything.
21:42And listening is a direct follow-on from curiosity, isn't it?
21:45Because if you're curious, but you're genuinely curious, you've got to listen.
21:49And you've got to listen beyond the first answer and the second answer.
21:53So it's like, if I'm going to be really honest with you, my worst nightmare is a dinner party.
21:58I get invited to a dinner party and I sit by somebody who I've never met before and they do
22:03that thing.
22:04You know it's going to be a long evening when they say, so, Anastor, what do you do?
22:09And you say, well, I'm CEO of a family-owned company that runs hotels, farms and property.
22:15And they go, right, right.
22:18And then they turn to the person next to them and you just know this is going to be a
22:22really bad evening.
22:23This is going to be a long one.
22:24It's when you're hoping there's going to be copious wine.
22:26You should try to explain modern media to people.
22:29But that's just dreadful, isn't it?
22:31Because, I mean, there are many things I kind of sort of worry about a bit actually in hospitality.
22:37But oddly enough, one of the things I do really worry about is at the heart of hospitality is the
22:43ability to listen.
22:43You know, if you think of Unreasonable Hospitality, Will Goddard's book, you know, that story, that book is just full
22:49of stories about people listening and hearing.
22:51You know, the hot dog story, you know, the crockery story and all that amazing stuff.
22:55But we are in a world where people, there were two things.
23:01First of all, you don't have time to tell a story.
23:04So this is a privilege to be able to talk for this long time.
23:06How often do you get expected to say something in one sentence flat and everybody kind of cracks on?
23:11But then even in that situation, because everybody's used to these soundbites, people's listening skills have diminished.
23:17I mean, you see it just walking around the streets of London.
23:19I mean, joke aside, I see people walking around London with their headphones on and the earplugs in.
23:23And they are completely oblivious to the world that goes on.
23:26You know, they walk out in the middle of the road.
23:27A number of times I've stopped people walking out in the road.
23:30But I think those people are going to go into an office.
23:33They're going to take the headphones off or possibly not take the headphones off.
23:37Even worse, yeah.
23:37And then they're going to apparently conduct work and they're going to have conversations with colleagues.
23:43Well, in all reality, what's the conversation going to be like?
23:47And where does that lead hospitality?
23:49And, you know, this is where I get, this is where I, for us, get really, really excited.
23:53Because I think the agile, independent, caring hospitality operators who love their people and love their guests and create a
24:05culture of you have got time to talk to a guest and you do have permission to find out.
24:09And you do, you are allowed to solve this problem for this guest.
24:13I think those operators are going to inherit the earth because as much as I think AI is amazing and
24:19I do think that there is the opportunity for technology and automation in hospitality, there will always be the need
24:26for that personal touch.
24:28I mean, last night, Edward at the Athenean, we had a sort of drinks reception, introduced me to a Canadian
24:34couple who were staying and they were about to go on a cruise tomorrow.
24:36But they were staying with us for four nights.
24:38But when they had arrived, having flown in from Ireland, they got three bags with them and one of the
24:43bags had been lost.
24:44And it was critical, it's bad because in it had this guest's medication.
24:50And so she, you know, she was carrying some medication, but she was going to run out of medication just
24:55as they were about to go on the cruise today.
24:58So Edward and the team realized, she arrived distressed, why wouldn't you?
25:04And the team did just everything in their power to help her to get the case back.
25:09And I think the kind of conclusion to all of that, this was that yesterday afternoon, someone from the hotel
25:15team actually went to a depot to collect the suitcase that had been finally found to bring it back there.
25:22Now, you know, that is just, that's curiosity, it's care, it's empowerment, it's we've, you know, saved the day for
25:31you so you can go on to your cruise and have a great time.
25:34And, you know, that will leave an indelible memory on those guests' minds.
25:37And it was, but it's not about leaving the memory, it's about that's what you should do for your guests.
25:42And I think that's your curiosity, your listening, your attention to detail, that care is, that's the battleground, isn't it?
25:51Couldn't be too much of that.
25:52And if you think about it, isn't this the problem for, I mean, I guess you guys in America, you'll
25:56be really, you know this problem, particularly the kind of big problem for kind of mid-market restaurant chains.
26:01That they're really struggling because they can't get as low cost as QSL, but they can't deliver the kind of
26:08personalized experience that top end can.
26:10And so you're in this no man's land, aren't you?
26:13And you've got all the cost of table service and all the rest, but you haven't got any of the
26:16personality.
26:17Yeah.
26:17And it's a killing ground.
26:19I was at a brilliant sort of mini-conference on Wednesday night where, you know, you kind of bump into
26:27these kind of diplomats.
26:28You've been diplomats all their lives and they're incredibly wise and you're thinking, oh, I'll never be this wise.
26:31He was talking about the kind of situation in the world and he said, he said, I'm getting bored of
26:37hearing about permacrisis.
26:39He said, he said, as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as permacrisis.
26:43So everybody in the room looked at him like, what are you talking about?
26:45And he said, there's no permacrisis.
26:47This is just normality.
26:49This is the way it is.
26:50So you need to face into it.
26:52And then he said, so if you then get a bit depressed about what you do with your business, he
26:55said, you've got to think that the only delta is supply.
27:01Hmm.
27:03Now, just think about that.
27:04Yeah.
27:04I thought about it for a minute thinking.
27:05I'm not sure.
27:06But then I began to think about it.
27:07I was thinking, what he was saying is that if you can operate in a market segment with a product,
27:13an idea, a service where supply is constrained, then that's where you win.
27:19And I was really thinking about this because, and I came away from it and it's been burning a hole
27:23in my head since, because what does that mean?
27:26It doesn't just mean that you control critical minerals.
27:28It could mean that you are delivering great thought leadership through podcasts, or it means you're delivering astonishingly good service
27:34in a restaurant or a hotel, but you're doing something that is in short supply.
27:39Yeah.
27:39So if you come back to your point you've just made about curiosity and listening and people, if you can,
27:45in your business, pour your energy into your people, the kind of efficiency and safety environment in which they work,
27:53so that they can do this astonishingly natural job for your guests in whatever it is, then I believe passionately
28:01that supply of that is really constrained.
28:04I mean, how often do you go to places and you come out going, wow, that was great service?
28:10You wrote a post on LinkedIn about bad attitude, that you don't believe in bad attitude.
28:16I believe in bottling.
28:17Everyone has attitude.
28:19Yeah.
28:21I couldn't agree more.
28:22Everyone has attitude.
28:23Everyone has energy.
28:24How do you harness that attitude?
28:26How do you harness that energy?
28:29I get asked quite a lot by young people, and it's a really legitimate question.
28:34They said, look, Alisa, we know that you started as a graduate trainee at Mars Confectionary, and you're now CEO
28:39of a business.
28:40You know, what tips would you give us?
28:43And I say, I always give the same two tips every time.
28:46I say, you've got to ride your luck.
28:49Okay, so luck for me is an absolute attitude thing.
28:53There are people who will tell you they are unlucky, and there are people who will tell you they are
28:57lucky.
28:58The truth is there's nobody who's unlucky or lucky.
29:01There are just people who get given an opportunity, and they seize it, and they ride their luck.
29:06And so I get really fed up with people who say they're unlucky.
29:09They're not unlucky.
29:10They just have missed opportunity or not pushed themselves or whatever.
29:14And that, for me, is attitude.
29:16And then the second point is that I always say to people, and forgive the profanity, if you will, I
29:22always say to people, you always take the shitty mission.
29:26So at all sorts of stages in your career, and I've had no end to them, you get to a
29:31junction point, and you get two options.
29:33You get an option to maybe get a promotion in a line of work that you're doing that you kind
29:39of know, yeah, this is going to be pretty easy.
29:40It's pretty safe.
29:41It's pretty low risk.
29:42It's the same company.
29:43It's the same type of role.
29:45I've just got a bit more responsibility, so it's the easy choice.
29:47Or there's a choice where somebody rings you up and says, I've got a real problem with this business here
29:52or this team.
29:54Nobody else is going to take the job.
29:56Would you do it for me?
29:57And that's the shitty mission.
29:58And I've carved out a career.
30:01Maybe I'm a suicide guy.
30:02I don't know.
30:03But I've carved out a career building, learning, and experience by always taking a shitty mission.
30:09Yeah.
30:09So, you know, when I was at Marston's, for example, I was a director for a whole load of pubs,
30:15which was a great job.
30:16And then the guy who was running our beer business resigned very suddenly, went to a competitor, so he left
30:21the building immediately.
30:22My chief executive rang me as I was coming back from visiting some pubs, and he said, Alistair, Martin's resigned.
30:29Will you run Marston's Beer Company?
30:31And Marston's Beer Company was a really difficult part of our business.
30:34Nobody particularly liked it.
30:35It was selling beer to scruffy pubs and clubs and so on, and it was in a bit of a
30:40pickle.
30:40Generated a lot of cash, but it was in a pickle.
30:43And he said, look, I need to replace Martin quickly.
30:46I don't want to go out to the market.
30:47Will you run it?
30:49And a bit of a learning point for me, this guy said, can you give me a moment to think
30:53about this, Ralph?
30:54And he said, I'll give you an hour.
30:56So I put the phone down, I was on a car phone, and I rang my dad, who is a
31:01very successful business.
31:02I said, Dad, if I've got this opportunity, what do you think?
31:03And he said, Alistair, why are you ringing me?
31:05And I said, well, I just wanted to get your opinion.
31:07And he said, you're an idiot.
31:08Take the job.
31:10You know, you're going to learn so much, and you're going to become a board director and all the rest.
31:13And he was absolutely right.
31:15And, you know, I learned a huge amount in that job.
31:19I worked with great people.
31:20We transformed the business.
31:22Because it was in a mess, I was able to give a huge latitude to make change and all the
31:26rest.
31:26Whereas if it hadn't been in a mess, it would have been really difficult.
31:30And, you know, that's absolutely emblematic of, you know, take the shitty mission.
31:34And I think that if you come all the way back to us and what we're trying to do here
31:39with our hotels and hospitality,
31:42one of the things, I'm not a hotel guy, I'm a pub guy.
31:45I've been involved in hotels previously.
31:47But one of the things that sort of struck me about hoteliers is they have this obsession with disintegrating the
31:53P&L.
31:54So what they do is they tell you, well, we make absolutely tons of money out of the rooms,
31:58but we don't make any money out of the spa, and we don't make any money out of the F
32:01&B.
32:02So rooms are great, spa and F&Bs, bloody hopeless.
32:06And I've had this all the time, and I say, just stop.
32:09I said, the guest does not think that way.
32:13The guest comes and they want to get a great room, they want to have a great spa experience,
32:16they want to have a great breakfast or evening meal, and then they leave and they pay the bill,
32:19and they go, was the overall experience fantastic?
32:22Well, of course, that's how they think.
32:23They don't think, well, I thought the room was great, but I didn't really like the spa,
32:27and I thought the food was a bit rubbish, but I'm still okay with the bill.
32:30I mean, that's not the way the guest thinks.
32:32So what we're trying to do here, and it's the next step with the Athenaeum, with the rooms,
32:36and the F&B, is think about the totality of the operation, and the totality of the guest
32:42experience, and so what if you don't make a lot of money out of the F&B, but what the
32:47F&B does is enriches the experience, or the spa enriches the experience, or whatever else
32:52you might be doing.
32:53Or we've gone over and above with, I'm absolutely serious on this, we've done a big refurbishment
33:00of our hotel in Bath to really upgrade it and make it something really special.
33:05It's super special.
33:06And we had a long, long discussion, wait for it, about bed linen.
33:10Really?
33:10Yeah.
33:11Bed linen.
33:12So the general manager, who's brilliant, was saying, if we're going to really strike
33:18a note in this hotel, we need to have better bed linen.
33:22You've got to get into the bed and feel like you're the first person to have ever slept
33:25in the bed.
33:26But to do that, you've got to have better bed linen.
33:28And I said, so I was sitting there, I said, right, well, great, well, just get better bed
33:31linen.
33:31And he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's going to put up the cost of servicing the room.
33:36And I said, so what, if the guest is happily paying 50, 60 pounds more per room, because
33:41the linen's great.
33:42So we had a big debate about this.
33:44Meeting to meeting, I'm not sure we should upgrade the linen.
33:47Anyway, we got to a point where I said, just stop it.
33:52Upgrade the linen.
33:53Go to premium linen.
33:54Go to the best bedding you can.
33:57And of course, so we do it, and I don't know, it adds, who knows, 30,000 pounds, 40,000
34:02pounds to the cost base.
34:03But you read the guest reviews, guess what the guests say?
34:07The winner.
34:08The beds are amazing.
34:10Best night sleep I've ever had.
34:13You're thinking, so, which illustrates exactly my point about the totality of experience.
34:19So you can go to the Francis in Bath, and you get to go into an amazing room in a
34:25historic
34:25building on a historic square with beautiful bed linen.
34:29And you can come downstairs to a great cocktail bar with an outstanding restaurant where we're
34:36cooking over embers.
34:38And it's also got a spa.
34:39And at the end of it, people are leaving and just saying, that was just amazing.
34:44They're not saying, you know, I kind of looked at the bill and had a bit of a debate about
34:49the room price.
34:50And people don't think that way.
34:52So while we're on a journey of kind of total hospitality, and what matters is the bottom
35:00line, not the bits in it, it's the bottom line comes as a result of great people doing
35:06an amazing job for your guests.
35:08And then the P&L should just flow naturally from that.
35:12How many people do you meet who start any kind of business discussion with the P&L?
35:18Nobody.
35:19Nobody?
35:20Nobody.
35:20Hallelujah.
35:21Right.
35:21Can you introduce me to more of them?
35:22Because this must be an American thing.
35:24In the UK, always start with a blooming P&L.
35:26Yeah.
35:27And the business plan.
35:28Yeah.
35:29Yeah.
35:29But if you're dealing with those people, I just say, well, good luck to you and your privilege,
35:33because I think that's exactly where it should be.
35:35Well, what's refreshing to me is we're staying at the Anthony Inn.
35:41It's absolutely phenomenal.
35:43Like I told you at breakfast, I feel like my family is living.
35:46Like, I feel like we have a flat in London, a beautiful flat.
35:50The attention to detail.
35:51But more importantly, I learned about it through Scott Turner, who opened my eyes.
35:58We believe in storytelling.
35:59We tell stories on Clubhouse, YouTube, podcast, you name it.
36:04But we've connected with people all over the world.
36:06And he was the first person that started teaching me about how hoteliers think versus how restauranteurs think.
36:12And more importantly, independent restauranteurs and the attitude and the energy.
36:15But that we're at this place where many people in the hotel space are starting to understand exactly what you
36:22were talking about,
36:23the value of restauranteurs.
36:25And we have a very large restauranteur audience, many of them extremely successful.
36:30I've had some of the greatest brands, restaurant groups, Michael Mina Group, on this show.
36:35And they partner with huge restaurants, Four Season Hotels, things like that.
36:41What can we learn in America about what you guys are doing here in the UK?
36:47Well, I often think we can learn far more from you, to be honest.
36:50Yeah, I mean, I think, look, the UK has always lagged America in terms of food and beverage and critically
36:57service culture.
36:58I mean, we are really catching up now because, and hallelujah, but I mean, you know, there always used to
37:03be a standing joke that service in the UK was cronky
37:05and that, you know, the roast beef was always grey and all that kind of stuff.
37:08You know, you guys in America have really shown the way and, you know, the US consumer expects that.
37:15And, you know, you have a world where working in F&B is a profession.
37:19It's not a kind of part-time job.
37:20These are all fantastic things that we need to, you know, I've long dreamed of how do we get the
37:26UK to a world where people don't see a career in F&B or hotels
37:30as a sort of temporary stopping point, how do you see it as a genuine career and how do you
37:37take real joy from serving people
37:41and actually how can you then apply qualifications to it so that people are working in F&B, but they're
37:45also growing, they're building, they're building their CV.
37:49I think that, I mean, I would never in a million years dare to direct or give an opinion on
37:57American offers
37:58because I think we've learned so much from you and I think unreasonable hospitality is like a kind of primer
38:03for, you know, I ate that book up.
38:06Amazing.
38:07It was fantastic.
38:08I think that the one thing I would say that maybe, just maybe, American operators can learn from the UK
38:18is I think that when, in London or at the Athenaeum, we get service absolutely right,
38:27we have a particular brand of service, it has a level of discretion, it has a little bit of sass
38:34to it,
38:35you know, it's not, we get it wrong in the UK where service is starchy, we get it right when
38:41it is polite and discreet,
38:42but it has a little bit of character and a little bit of sass, but it is deeply respectful.
38:48And I think that, you know, when I look at what we're doing at the Athenaeum, what Edward and his
38:52team are doing there,
38:53I mean, I love going to the Athenaeum, I spend a lot of time there because I live in Wales,
38:57so I commute in and out of London.
38:58It is my home from home, by your experience.
39:00It's amazing.
39:01And what I get is, I get this magical blend of respect.
39:05I mean, okay, I'm CEO, but I don't want people to be running around after me.
39:08I am the least important guest in reality.
39:11But what I get is respect, but with humour and pleasantness and some lightheartedness.
39:20And I'll tell you, I'll give you an example of exactly this.
39:25So about a year ago, I travelled to and from Cardiff a lot on the train,
39:29and I had two weeks on the trot where I'd been in London three nights.
39:33I got to Friday and I kind of really wanted to get home, see my wife and so on.
39:37And for reasons various, I got to the station on Friday afternoon
39:41and there had been a problem on the train lights.
39:43All the trains had, like, stopped and I couldn't get home.
39:47So this had happened in the first week, and then the second week it happened again.
39:50And I rang my wife and I said, look, I can't get home.
39:53I won't be able to get home train until midnight or whatever.
39:55What do I do?
39:56And she said, Anastair, just don't do it.
39:58Go back to the Athenaeum.
40:00Stay another night and come back, you know, when the trains are sorted.
40:03It's just not worth it.
40:04So I was pretty depressed.
40:06You know, it's like you want to get home, get in, all that kind of stuff.
40:10And so I rang up with the Athenaeum and I said, have you got a room?
40:13They said, yes, we've got a room.
40:14No problem.
40:15I said, you know, just make your way back.
40:16So I came back and as I came into the Athenaeum feeling, frankly, pretty sorry for myself.
40:21You know, that kind of the teenager moment.
40:24So I come in and I meet Matt, who's one of the guys who kind of manages the reception area
40:29and helps people with bags.
40:30They're just brilliant.
40:31And I came in and Matt said to me, he said, gosh, Anastair, you look a bit fed up.
40:36Yeah.
40:37And I said, oh, Matt.
40:38I said, the second week on the run, not being able to get home.
40:42I'm going to have to stay another night here.
40:43And Matt stood there.
40:44And this is British service.
40:46I think it's best.
40:47He looked at me and he said, you know, Anastair, if only there was a hotel you could go to,
40:53which was staffed by really nice people and had lovely, comfortable rooms,
40:58and you knew that you were going to get a cold beer and a decent meal.
41:01My, my, my.
41:02And in that moment, I immediately felt better.
41:05I mean, because it was the reality check that come on.
41:09You know, there's been a disaster on the line.
41:11Somebody might have been hurt.
41:11But I can just go back to this amazing hotel and be looked up.
41:14And I thought that was, you want encapsulation of brilliant British service.
41:19A bit, a bit, you know, a little bit of humour, a bit of gentle pee-taking.
41:24But fundamentally, don't worry, we've got you.
41:27We're here to help you.
41:28That is, for me, the epitome of British service.
41:32And so if there was one thing I think Americans could learn, perhaps that would be it.
41:36That sort of discreet, slightly tongue-in-cheek, don't, you know, sort of, ever so,
41:41I'm going to take you down a peg.
41:43You're not that important.
41:46But it was a beautiful moment, and I felt so much better.
41:49And, of course, I went up to the hotel room, I came back down, had a great meal,
41:52was looked after, and then got a train the next morning, and life was all right.
41:55Now, that is, for me, wonderful service.
41:58But it's kind of British service.
41:59It's, you know, the kind of keep calm and carry on type of thing?
42:03It's like, you know, Janester, the world's not going to end.
42:05We'll look after you.
42:07I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time, expanding my mind
42:12and the audience's mind for long-term thinking.
42:15I think it's one of the most refreshing things.
42:18We've done these, I've done thousands of episodes,
42:20and to be here on top of London in Soho at your boardroom to share these kinds of stories,
42:26this is why we believe so deeply in storytelling, why we care so much about hospitality,
42:32why we're grateful for technology to connect all of us.
42:34The world's much smaller, the total addressable market for where our magic happens all over the world.
42:40There's really amazing things.
42:42There's amazing hotels all over the world, amazing restaurants all over the world,
42:45amazing stadiums, places to go and take your family,
42:47and we're just grateful for the opportunity to be able to share those stories.
42:51Well, and it's been a privilege to meet all of you and to, you know,
42:54and to have the great pleasure and honour of seeing you having a great time in our hotel.
42:58I mean, you know, our job is service,
42:59so when you see people as happy as you are and as enthusiastic,
43:03yes, we're doing our job well.
43:05It's magical.
43:06It's been just a magical trip.
43:07Thank you all for watching.
43:09Thank you for listening.
43:10What's the best place people can follow you on LinkedIn?
43:13Yeah, LinkedIn.
43:14Are you going to start posting more, please?
43:16I really enjoy your writing.
43:17Yeah, yeah.
43:18I probably need to do a bit more of that, don't I?
43:20I was kind of told I need to be a bit careful when I was writing.
43:22Now, who told you that?
43:23PR people?
43:24Well, let's PR people, investors, boards.
43:26It's this whole digital footprint thing, isn't it?
43:28Yeah.
43:29People dragging out your past, and you said this back then and all that stuff.
43:31Yeah, but honestly, that's how you recruit the best talent.
43:35Yeah.
43:35Yeah.
43:36You recruit the people that you want to work for you,
43:38because where are they going to go?
43:39They're going to go to YouTube.
43:40They're going to listen to podcasts.
43:41They want to work for the best companies, especially in hospitality.
43:44As you said, this is something that we should all be proud of.
43:47The people that are running the hotel, they are absolutely incredible,
43:50and they should be proud to be working for this family.
43:53Well, I'm going to take you up on that.
43:54That is a useful call to arms, so thank you.
43:57I will post a bit more, and then you can let me know
43:59whether it's complete rubbish or not.
44:00I will.
44:01I will turn notifications on.
44:04I will be the first commenter.
44:05It's going to be the first comment.
44:06You've really lost it.
44:08Yeah, definitely not rubbish.
44:09Definitely not rubbish.
44:10You guys can always reach out to me,
44:12at Sean P. Wild Chef.
44:13Instagram, LinkedIn, those are the fastest,
44:15but I'm available on all the platforms.
44:17We're grateful for you watching.
44:18We're grateful for you listening.
44:19As always, stay curious, get involved,
44:22and don't be afraid to ask for help.
44:23We'll catch you next episode.
44:28Thank you for listening.
44:29If you've made it this long,
44:30you are part of the community.
44:32You're part of the tribe.
44:33We can't do this alone.
44:34We started.
44:35No one was listening.
44:36Now we have a community of digital hospitality leaders
44:39all over the globe.
44:40Please check out our new series called
44:42Restaurant Technology Substack.
44:44It's a Substack newsletter.
44:46It's free.
44:46It's some of our deep work on the best technology
44:49for restaurants.
44:49Also, go to YouTube and subscribe to Cali BBQ Media.
44:54Cali BBQ Media on YouTube.
44:56We've been putting out a lot of new original content.
44:58Hopefully, you guys like that content.
45:00If you want to work with us, go to etheshow.media.
45:03We show up all over the United States,
45:05some international countries.
45:06We would love to work with you and your growing brand
45:09on digital storytelling.
45:10You can reach out to me anytime,
45:12at Sean P. Wild Chef on Instagram.
45:14I'm weirdly available.
45:15Stay curious.
45:16Get involved.
45:17Don't be afraid to ask for help.
45:18We'll catch you next episode.
45:19Bye-bye.
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