00:00Let me bring in former CEC, S.Y. Qureshi. Now, Mr. Qureshi, as the former CEC, how do you see
00:05the internal rift within the commission?
00:07Gyanesh Kumar versus two election commissioners he has. Is this and can this be called as a breakdown of an
00:15institution?
00:19Absolutely. It's the worst thing which could have happened to the election commission.
00:23And it is totally unprecedented, totally unfortunate, and cannot be allowed to continue like this.
00:34It has clearly come out that most of the decisions taken in the last one and a half years have
00:39been taken by one man, which is not the commission.
00:42Commission is two persons, a majority of two.
00:44So, all decisions taken by a single man, whosoever he may be, he may be the chairman of the election
00:51commission, but they are all illegal, full stop, illegal.
00:57So, you are saying that all decisions that have been taken by this present election commission is illegal.
01:02There are leaders in opposition who are of the opinion that all the elections which have been held under CEC,
01:08Gyanesh Kumar, should be nullified.
01:10What are your views? Is that really possible?
01:14I'm not surprised. I think it's not, it might sound too radical, but why not?
01:20If some patent, blatant illegality has happened, how can we allow the consequences of that illegality to continue?
01:30Elections have been set aside for minor irregularities in the past at different levels.
01:36Well, it may not be the state election, but okay, in the Lampy or Vedanta election.
01:41That's quite normal. It's nothing unusual.
01:44So, let us go back to the drawing board, revive the 2001, January 2001 electoral roll.
01:53All the subsequent rolls should be declared non-existent, void, and update those rolls by summary revision, which we have
02:03been doing for the last 20 years, very successfully.
02:07And with those fresh, pure rolls, then do the elections.
02:12Why not? Because the elections have been stolen this way.
02:19By, you know, crores of people deleted, genuine bona fide voters deleted in elections happening and results coming out.
02:27And I had heard somewhere, but can't depend on the rumour, that some gentleman bragging that I caused this victory.
02:35Those are rather sharp words here, Mr. Qureshi, to say that the elections have been stolen as a former CC
02:43yourself.
02:43So, help us understand, because, you know, I've been speaking to several former CCs, and O.P. Rawat has been
02:49on my shows regularly.
02:50He says that difference of opinion is natural, that these are disagreements which happen, but the final decision is unanimous.
02:59And that's what matters, because if there are three individuals, they would have differing views.
03:06There is also the other view, Mr. Qureshi, that the two election commissioners could have asserted themselves.
03:13They had equal powers as the CEC, they could have vetoed a decision, which were earlier taken by Gyanesh Kumar.
03:24Well, they, surely, they had the power in the sense that the two become a majority.
03:31Yes.
03:32But in the kind of atmosphere in which the things have been working, I don't know, they didn't feel bold
03:38enough to do that.
03:39But I'm very happy, at least I'm grateful to them, the nation should be grateful, at least they had some
03:44conscience.
03:45And they were writing dissident notes, and they were leaving a record.
03:49We have a trail now.
03:51If they had been only putting thumb marks on what was happening, then they would have gone down in my
03:58eyes totally.
04:00But, of course, it's very easy to say they should have spoken then, they should have come out openly, and
04:05all that.
04:06It's easier said than done.
04:07Mind you, two election commissioners earlier, for speaking up, exactly like that, writing a dissenting note, were eased out of
04:17the election commission.
04:18In that background, these two behaving very, very cautiously is understandable.
04:25I don't want to blame them.
04:26And, in fact, any debate on what they should have done and they should not have met the cabinet secretary
04:31and all that, I think this is red herring.
04:33You know, we are diverting the attention from the main culprit, from the main issue to something, you can discuss
04:41it six months later.
04:42But right now, what about them?
04:46What about they?
04:47Why did they not speak?
04:48That is not such an issue.
04:50But what exactly happened?
04:51As much as, I know, let us discuss what we know.
04:54And we know that things were not going on fine.
04:59Mr. Qureshi, both the Lok Sabha speaker and the Rajya Sabha chairman have rejected opposition impeachment notices against the CEC
05:08in the past.
05:09Does that close the constitutional route against him of impeachment?
05:14Or does it just push the confrontation onto the streets because the CJP has already given an ultimatum that if
05:24Gyanesh Kumar doesn't resign in 48 hours, then they are bringing, you know, starting a nationwide agitation?
05:33Yeah, because what happened in the Lok Sabha, Rajya Sabha, the notices were rejected, but that was then.
05:40I think the situation today is radically different from what it was two days ago.
05:46So, both these gentlemen who rejected these motions earlier would have to think hundred times doing it now.
05:53And I think the motion, I don't know whether there is a time bar, but the motion can be revived.
06:00Otherwise, in any case, parallelly, the people are going to come out on the streets.
06:06So, that brings me to my next question, because the opposition is saying that he should be impeached.
06:13There is this pressure group, which is the CJP, has given an ultimatum that he should resign.
06:19Does a street ultimatum to a constitutional authority set a dangerous precedent?
06:27Yes, it is. It is very unfortunate.
06:29You know, the Election Commission of India was the most respected authority in the country for the last 70 years.
06:36Only in the last few years, for its omissions and commissions, its reputation has been going downhill.
06:43And this is the pits that we have now achieved.
06:46Therefore, people taking to a street, because there was resentment,
06:49you remove 13 crore people, and they will keep silent how long?
06:54They did keep silent for the last one and a half years, which was shocking in itself.
07:00People should have been louder very coolly, calmly, gently.
07:04Some computer sitting in Delhi is overruling the legal authority, ERO.
07:09ERO is the only authority, only authority, which can change the electoral road
07:15by adding or subtracting a name or making any changes.
07:19There, here, the computer in Delhi, computer ji, the Delhi, they were overruling.
07:27And the only legal authority, the ERO, who is an SDM, had no access, in most cases, to the ECI
07:36net.
07:37So, Mr. Qureshi, the BJP is saying that those who are raising the questions with regards to Gyanesh Kumar,
07:43of course, the Election Commission also, must explain what used to happen earlier.
07:51You know, the BJP says that during the Congress regime, the Election Commissions were functioning in questionable manner.
07:58There were newspaper clips that they are showing in the press conferences
08:02about appointment of Naveen Chawla by Sonia Gandhi.
08:05So, certainly, when it was the UPA time,
08:08the Election Commission faced similar allegations and questions.
08:12So, there is nothing unusual.
08:15No, no, I think this is total rubbish.
08:18Even if that was the case, so what?
08:20What about the current case?
08:22Because they show some Naveen Chawla clipping.
08:25So, therefore, all that that has happened is justified.
08:29This what about tree is the most nonsensical thing we hear on the television these days.
08:33Oh, what about then?
08:34What about then?
08:35What about then?
08:35So, let us discuss then.
08:37Today, you forget about it.
08:39What is happening in this totally absurd kind of argument?
08:43And that brings me to my last question.
08:46And I'm looking at all that is being said by multiple opposition leaders for Mamata Banerjee,
08:52who has accused, you know, Gyanesh Kumar of helping the BJP win through EVM hacking.
09:01A lot of these demands are coming.
09:03Arvind Kejriwal, Rahul Gandhi, all of them are speaking about it.
09:07The opposition seems to be united, but do they really have evidence of a compromised election commission?
09:15Because what is clear is that when the SIR process started,
09:22there were multiple petitions that were filed before the Supreme Court.
09:25The Supreme Court had also issued guidelines.
09:30So, how do you see this entire exercise now play out, sir?
09:38Well, opposition would say what they are saying.
09:42It is logical, it is natural, but I would not go into that.
09:45But the fact that the guy in question was indulging in illegality, blatantly.
09:52He did not hold election commission meetings for four months when the exercise as serious as SIR was going on.
10:00I was in the election commission.
10:02Even in the normal times, we used to meet twice a week.
10:04And in election days, we used to meet every day, commission, all three.
10:09And SIR happening is as serious as an election happening.
10:13They should have meeting every day, but he had shared content for the other two.
10:18And he did not even call a meeting.
10:20And their protest, their questions and everything was being pushed under the carpet.
10:27So, with this kind of attitude, everything which he has done or not done comes into question and should be
10:34investigated.
10:35There should be a technical legal audit of everything that has happened in the election commission in the last two
10:41years.
10:42All right.
10:43Aswai Qureshi, former election commissioner, chief election commissioner.
10:46Thank you so much for joining us.
10:48Thank you so much for joining us.
