- 11 hours ago
Jeremy White and Joe DiBiase kick things off on Tuesday morning by looking back on the Bills loss to the Patriots, and analyzing why the loss felt so frustrating for many Bills fans. The guys highlight the fact that it’s the teams biggest rivals by far, and this win proves that the Bills have to treat them as an equal. They look back on last season's loss, and highlight why this season's loss is so similar and concerning.
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00:00Well, alright. Good morning. Sabres game night. What do you want to start with? Do you have any Bills thing
00:06that's sticking with you?
00:07I do have one thing on Jim Leonard and Joe Brady to bring up, but it can wait if you've
00:12got something real juicy right off the bat that's been eating at you.
00:15Really, the only thing would be exploring the online discourse of what happened with the Bills on Sunday against New
00:24England.
00:25Yesterday, online would have been kind of it, and I don't know. Online's going to run away. It's a runaway
00:32freight train.
00:33Allen has a bad game, and it's like, oh, let's bring up all these other things that Allen is bad
00:39at because yesterday it was, oh, did you know he's the worst two-point conversion quarterback in the NFL?
00:45I've got all the end-of-game stuff, and now people are fighting about the playoff games.
00:50I think the best way to maybe experience a Bills loss is just not go on Twitter the day after
00:58the game because they're going to lose one game at some point in the season,
01:05and it often happens right around this time, and it just doesn't really feel like that big a deal to
01:12me for the totality of the season.
01:15It's a big deal for the division, and if they end up not winning the division, we'll look back and
01:22this was a huge game.
01:23But it doesn't really, I don't know, I don't feel like we learned anything that we weren't already that concerned
01:30about.
01:31Maybe you just had it reinforced. Like, I've reinforced about the defense, and Allen at the end of games,
01:37so I trust him less because of that one game on Sunday. He's been playing the league for eight years.
01:41Like, I already maybe have my questions about him. So, no, I think he's just basking in all of it,
01:47pretty much.
01:49Yeah, is it a normal loss that's, uh, throw your hands up, eh, whatever.
01:54If they had lost the Chargers game, I don't think we would have had an identity crisis.
01:59It would have been, turn the ball over five times, it was stupid. It was a dumb game.
02:02We've got our dumb games along the way, right?
02:05Maybe what's different about this one, and have we thought about this really at all,
02:10it means that there's a team out there that might have them, doesn't fear them.
02:17It's not quite the Chiefs because it's the playoffs, but we think if the Bills had beaten the Broncos,
02:26they just would have gone to New England and won. You sure? Are we sure?
02:31The Patriots beat them here, and then in the game at Gillette, ran out to a huge lead and ultimately
02:38lost by four,
02:39and the defense had to make a play late to stop that game.
02:42The Patriots are right there with you. Three games played, three close games.
02:47They're not these games like the Chargers game where you turn it over five times.
02:51It's not a game like the Texans game where your quarterback goes nine for 30 on the road
02:56and your tackles are concussed. What you have is you've played them three times,
03:00and when you play them, you look like equals.
03:04And maybe that's the thing that's the scariest because the Bills have been, whatever,
03:10supreme over so many teams, and a team beats them like,
03:14oh, wow, the Jets got to win on a punt return. That's weird.
03:16All right, let's shake it off. It's a dumb loss.
03:19Oh, the Vikings got a loss on a fumble into the end zone for a touchdown.
03:23They're all dumb losses, except New England.
03:27New England, those two losses last year in the rivalry uniform game,
03:31and this year on Sunday, those don't look like super dumb games.
03:35Those look like games that mortal teams play and lose.
03:39And the Bills lost twice now, just looking like a mortal team.
03:43Like Vrabel and Josh McDaniels actually have them a little bit, have their number a little bit.
03:51I mean, it's two games and three, and they don't beat anybody else that really is that highly ranked.
04:00That's the other part of it.
04:01If you look at their, I think it's like 12 or 13 regular season wins in the time since they
04:06beat the Bills last year in Week 5.
04:09And they didn't beat another playoff team last year.
04:13They did in the playoffs, so I guess those should count for that.
04:16But in the regular season, they didn't beat another playoff team.
04:19They beat a couple of teams from the NFC South.
04:22They beat, in that time, New Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa.
04:25They beat the Jets a couple times.
04:26They beat the Dolphins a couple times.
04:27They beat the Giants.
04:29The Ravens, who missed it last year.
04:31Lamar Jackson injuries.
04:32Tennessee.
04:33This year, they beat Pittsburgh.
04:35Pittsburgh, but, all right, well, they got the two wins over the Bills.
04:39So, I don't even think the soft schedule point about them, in retrospect, is wrong.
04:44I think it's correct.
04:45Like, those are a lot of easy teams.
04:47And this year, like, all right, you beat Pittsburgh.
04:50Congratulations.
04:50Pittsburgh is not that impressive.
04:52But when they beat the Bills twice, yeah, like, that makes it different than the last time you had a
04:59team in your division that was always nipping at your heels.
05:02With the Dolphins, who you smacked around all the time, that was a team that, in retrospect, looks like, oh,
05:08yeah, they, like, they were intimidated by you.
05:10Yes.
05:10Or they just didn't have the answers.
05:12Like, they, some of those games were close.
05:14But then there were also, you know, week two in Miami, and the Dolphins are favored, and the Bills win
05:19by, like, 30.
05:20Or there's, oh, they scored 70 points, and they're number one in all the power rankings, and they come here,
05:24and the Bills score 50.
05:25Like, the Bills just dominated Miami, and it felt like big brother, little brother by a lot.
05:33And this one, yeah, is that Vrabel?
05:36Is that just May being better than Tua?
05:39Whatever it is, those are both probably true.
05:41Yeah, this feels more like potential real true nemesis.
05:45Right.
05:45Because they're not even at their strongest right now.
05:48They're now in Christian Baltimore, Christian Gonzalez.
05:50We think their receivers aren't very good.
05:53May's in trouble, and yet they had their get-right game.
05:57They got up for you, you know?
05:59So, I wonder if that's what makes it feel different, or if it's just, you know, we live constantly in
06:04this spot where the Bills are waiting to show us what they can do in January,
06:08and all that we can do is look at what's happening and say, do I think that would happen in
06:13January?
06:14Right.
06:15It's existence now.
06:17I know it's fun to live week to week, and it's fun to be inside of a game, but really,
06:22everything is about, like, the future and how January ultimately looks once we get there.
06:27And with that, the defense has been ghastly.
06:31Really bad.
06:32Really bad in the secondary.
06:34Maxwell Harrison, really bad.
06:37He's not alone.
06:38Christian Benford's had a tough couple of games.
06:40Yep.
06:41So, 803-0550 the number, how much have the last two weeks, or just the last week, has it changed
06:49what you think about the team at all?
06:51And that's, you know, how good they might be in the season and how the season might ultimately go.
06:57And I think those two things are actually different.
06:59So, give us a call.
07:00803-0550 if you're getting...
07:02I used to say about the Patriots games back when, you know, the Bills were bad and the Patriots were
07:07the dynasty, that the Patriots would come in and give the Bills an identity crisis.
07:12If the Bills had played four games in a row and looked good, the Patriots would come in here and
07:15beat them by 30, we'd say, well, everything's terrible.
07:19Like, you'd question everything.
07:21And I don't think we're at that, but I do think we are at, geez, this team really might be
07:29worth considering as a peer.
07:33Last year, schedule, schedule, schedule.
07:36This year, man, they beat us again, huh?
07:40That's both times at home.
07:42And the Bills will have to go there and win.
07:43And by the time they're out there, will A.J. Brown be healthy?
07:46Will Drake may have kind of figured it out?
07:48Yeah.
07:49Will their defense be in peak form?
07:50Like, it's not at the end of the season.
07:52It's midseason this time.
07:54But they look like a real peer.
07:56There's peer, though, and there's also, are they just a team that can beat you?
08:01Are they just bad matchup or whatever the reason is?
08:05Like, for me, over the last, what do you want, five years, six years, since Lamar Jackson got to Baltimore,
08:13so 2018, in that amount of time, I don't consider the Steelers a peer of the Ravens.
08:19True.
08:20Same.
08:20Like, there's one of those teams has been far more successful and better in that amount of time than the
08:27other.
08:27But yet, they kind of beat each other the same amount of times, right?
08:32Like, Pittsburgh always finds a way to beat Baltimore, even though we all know they're not as good.
08:37And that could, I'm not even saying that has to be New England, but that could develop here where it's
08:45a rivalry because the Bills, we feel like, are the better team and over year to year are better.
08:51But they split.
08:53I mean, they've split.
08:54If the Bills win in Foxborough later in the year, I think that's five of six years that they will
08:58split against each other.
08:59And that goes before, I know, Vrabel and May, but there's, okay, they're on your level, they're a peer, they're
09:07a Super Bowl contender with you year to year, and there's also, even if they're not as good, they might
09:11be a team because they're in the division and they're not intimidated by you and they have some good matchups
09:16that, you know, just exist.
09:18That you will find, you'll, you'll find yourself losing to them more often than you lost to Miami before.
09:25803-0550.
09:26We'll get your calls in on this.
09:27You know, not the season is over, not the sky is falling, but have you adjusted your sales?
09:33I suppose.
09:34Give us a ring.
09:35Rich in Lakeview.
09:36Rich, good morning.
09:37Good morning.
09:38Yeah, I don't think the season's over, but I'm afraid the canary in the coal mine may have started to
09:44twitch a little bit.
09:45I go back, we were talking about it, that Vrabel won the Crumpled Paper Bowl, and I think it has
09:53a little bit to do with more with the chest pops out.
09:56You only bully down, you never bully up.
09:59I can't see Vrabel doing something like that to Sean McVay or actually one of the Harbaugh's, and it's just,
10:09when you get a bunch of guys together, it's one of those looks.
10:13And you might say, yeah, I'm looking too much into it.
10:15But what it did, I think it took a little bit of the aura with this win off of that.
10:19There's no fear.
10:21It definitely looks like that.
10:22Drake may look more like Josh Allen than Josh Allen did.
10:27And, you know, it's how Brady and the young staff respond.
10:30You know, Brady comes in with a cool haircut, you know, taking his shirt off.
10:34He's like the guy who moves into your neighborhood with a sports car, but then gets stuck in the skirt
10:39in the driveway at the first snowstorm.
10:41So it takes away that neighborhood aura.
10:44And that's where I am because Vrabel, despite all the on and off field, the chaos with his lineup came
10:51in and three points, but they kind of, 405 yards, they punked the Bills.
10:56And that's where I'm worried about because how does Brady keep the locker room together?
11:02And it's, it's fragile, but yeah, that's where I'm worried about.
11:07X's and O's, we'll see.
11:08It could be ugly or it could be a big turnaround regardless of the score on next Monday.
11:13But, yeah, I'm a little bit worried about that, that, that whole shit spot, that kind of stuff.
11:20Thanks, Rich.
11:21You know, what you said, it makes me, I've got something I wanted to say about Brady a little bit
11:25later, but I'll get to it now and maybe I'll flesh it out more later.
11:28And that's, you know, you say he's bullied by Vrabel.
11:32And Joe Brady is definitely a very competitive coach.
11:36He's the youngest coach in football.
11:38He's got to be a level of brilliant to have made it to this point.
11:42And how he coaches behind the scenes, we've seen examples of him being fiery and feisty and all that.
11:50However, now that he has his first loss on his card and we got his first loss post-game presser,
11:57I feel like there's, it goes two ways.
12:00It's important for fans to remember, speaking for myself here too, it's important, it's important for fans to remember that
12:07the coach you see at the podium is not the coach that's in the room.
12:11It's also important for coaches to remember the coach you decide to be at the podium is the coach fans
12:16think you are.
12:17And what was Brady yesterday or after the game?
12:21There's a reason Max is out there.
12:23He's going to be fine.
12:24He says Terrell Bernard is flying around, playing great football.
12:28Everybody sees he doesn't look like he's playing great football, not flying around.
12:33Like Brady so far, one loss in, looks like he'll choose to be the ultimate players coach.
12:39When we're talking Keyon Coleman in the offseason, he's been right about that.
12:43But Coleman earned those suspensions or benchings.
12:46And it's, he's just immature, the best thing that ever happened to him is me.
12:50So he's appearing to be the ultimate players coach, which I think has a lot of value in the locker
12:56room and can be great.
12:58But your fans might think you're soft.
13:01And your fans, I think, are probably going to think you're soft unless you show a little bit of bite.
13:07And the flip side of that is Jim Leonard.
13:11Right now, Jim Leonard is the heavy.
13:13Jim Leonard, when asked about Maxwell Hairston's effort on that play, said, I think it's clear it wasn't good enough.
13:20Jim Leonard, when asked about the idea that when D. Alford said, it's tough to play at home in the
13:25sound, what did he say?
13:26Yeah, that's true.
13:27But if we say that, we're a-holes.
13:29Yeah.
13:30I've got my head coach, nice guy, going to play the players coach.
13:36And my defensive coordinator is going to come out and call somebody an a-hole.
13:40Like, all right.
13:42That might get interesting during the season somewhere along the way because it feels like my defensive coordinator is willing
13:49to tell the truth.
13:51And you don't have to go up there and tell the truth.
13:53Joe Brady does not have to do that.
13:55Lindy Ruff has been a head coach in hockey for decades.
13:58He decides how he- sometimes he's fiery.
14:01Sometimes he's going to protect the player, right?
14:03You decide how you want to do it.
14:05But however you decide to do it, your fans are going to think that's who you are in the room.
14:09And one thing people worried about Brady when he got the job was, will we be too nice, too cozy
14:15with Josh, all that.
14:16And so far, he's playing that part on the podium.
14:20Yeah, that's right.
14:21I guess it's hard to know, though, what he actually is like.
14:25You really don't know.
14:26You don't know.
14:27That's just who fans think you are is who you are at the podium.
14:29You probably learn, though, over time.
14:31Like, I don't know how long it takes, but tidbits drop along the way about, like, what he's like behind
14:38the scenes.
14:39I remember this with McDaniel.
14:41McDaniel was player's coach.
14:43And, like, what do you see in public?
14:44Like, oh, he's at the basketball game with the other Dolphins, and, like, they love him.
14:48And then after, like, two years, it's, ah, Tyreek Hill shows up late to every single meeting.
14:53And players just kind of do whatever they want.
14:55And it's, okay, maybe this is, you know, speaking, like, people had their guesses about, like, oh, if you're going
15:01to be a player's coach, then this can happen.
15:02And it was, oh, that was happening in Miami with a lot of their guys.
15:06And that's not to say that's happening here, but you'll hear stories, I think, as the games go on and
15:14the years go on before you probably will have a good sense of what Brady is like in that locker
15:22room.
15:22After a loss, for instance.
15:24Like, I know what he sounded like at the podium.
15:27I feel like if he sounded like that behind the scenes, fans wouldn't be that impressed.
15:32And, again, it doesn't mean we know.
15:34We don't know.
15:35Jay Budd in the chat wrote in, he probably criticizes Josh behind the podium.
15:39Maybe.
15:40We don't know.
15:40He decides.
15:42He can just say, oh, yeah, that's an inexcusable throw.
15:47He says, I'm Josh Allen's biggest hater.
15:50Okay.
15:51If you were, maybe that throw gets mentioned as a problem instead of I'm the one that's responsible for the
15:57turnover.
15:57So, again, I like making this point about coaches because I think it's fair as something we don't know.
16:03I don't know what you're like back there.
16:05All you can show me is who you are out here.
16:09And it's your decision.
16:10You can do what you want.
16:11Sometimes people will say, what do you expect him to say?
16:13He can say whatever he wants.
16:15He can be as real as he wants.
16:16He can be as protectful as he wants.
16:18I mean, Vrabel last week in the open said Drake May made a terrible decision on a touchdown and had
16:26to work to get the interviewer to ask him the question.
16:29Like, ask me what I thought of the decision.
16:31It stunk, basically, is what he said.
16:33And then Drake May had the best game of his season immediately after.
16:36And does anybody think their relationship is broken now?
16:39It might be.
16:40It could be and he just played well.
16:41Brady and Belichick had a broken relationship for years.
16:44That, too.
16:45You've got to figure out what you want.
16:47Like, how much do you want him to go after Josh in a film room, in a meeting room, when
16:53he's making big mistakes like that?
16:54Because there is, well, don't even mention it.
16:57And, like, just, you know, he knows what he did.
16:59I don't need to even bring it up to him.
17:01And just, like, kind of let him get off with it.
17:02Or there is the flip end, which is the stories that we've heard from, I know Ross Tucker's told them
17:07and other former Patriots,
17:08that Belichick would just blast Brady in front of the rest of the team, like, to make an example out
17:13of him when he made mistakes.
17:15And, like, I don't think you want that also.
17:17You want something in the middle.
17:18Yep.
17:19And, you know, it's all guesswork at the end of the day.
17:23803-0550.
17:23We've got some people want to talk about this.
17:25Let's do it.
17:26Join us on the other side.
17:27On Joe Brady, Jim Leonard, and the Bills, who head off to Los Angeles to play the Rams.
17:33They are underdogs.
17:35I think this would be the only time all year they are underdogs.
17:38They are underdogs.
17:40Let's have it.
17:40Jeremy and Joe on WGR.