- 23 minutes ago
Rahul Gandhi’s petition has been registered on the Supreme Court’s website as the Congress leader leads an INDIA bloc march towards the apex court under the banner “Chalo Delhi – March for Democracy”. The Opposition is demanding Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar’s resignation over allegations of “vote chori” linked to the Special Intensive Revision (SIR) of electoral rolls. On News Today, our panel examines the Opposition’s allegations, the government’s response and the questions surrounding the revision exercise. What does the petition seek, and can the Opposition’s street protest translate into a legal challenge? We also discuss the police response to the demonstrations and the widening political confrontation over the Election Commission’s credibility.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news,
00:04newsmakers, talking points, Monday night, start of a brand new week.
00:08The big story is coming from the India bloc, the opposition moving now the Supreme Court
00:13against the Chief Election Commissioner, Gyanesh Kumar.
00:16Also, Jantar Mantar will no longer be a designated site for protest.
00:21Is this part of the Delhi Police's bid to crush dissent?
00:24Is the right to protest being curbed?
00:26We'll have all the big questions, Abhishek Manu Singh be among my special guests tonight.
00:31Also, protesters who suffered at the hands of the police.
00:35But first, as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at 9.
00:42The vote-chory allegations showdown now reaches the Supreme Court.
00:46Rahul Gandhi and 10 other India bloc netas file pleas in the Supreme Court
00:53against SIR, poll body and all three election commissioners are named as respondents.
01:00BJP accuses Rahul Gandhi of levelling charges without any proof.
01:08Fresh controversy erupts after Rahul Gandhi claims that the Chief Election Commissioner
01:13keeps messaging him and he should turn an approver.
01:17The BJP rubbish is the claim, stands by Gyanesh Kumar.
01:28Centre denotifies Jantar Mantar as a protest site after the high drama over the weekend.
01:35During the CJP stir, Ram Leela Meidan, Burari Ground, CBD Ground listed as new venues for protests.
01:45F.I.R. filed against Congress Manipur MP Bimal Aikojaam after he was dismissed as JNU
01:51professor over sexual harassment charges.
01:53BJP stages nationwide protests.
01:56Congress calls it a diversary tactic.
02:01Days after an RBI rate hike, data shows inflation jumped to 5.5% in September,
02:07up from 4.83% in August.
02:10Food inflation rises sharply to 7.74% according to government data.
02:19Amid sprays for the crackdown on adulterated food,
02:22Maharashtra FDA Chief Tukaram Munde now gets a new task,
02:26appointed as Secretary of a High-Level Inquiry Commission,
02:28constituted to investigate paper leak cases in the state.
02:35Horrific incident comes to light from Andhra's Vijaywada.
02:38Four burnt alive after an electric car catches fire.
02:41Another injured in critical condition caused behind fire yet to be ascertained.
02:49Four terrorists including a top Lashkar commander killed in Jammu and Kanshpil's pooch
02:53while trying to infiltrate.
02:55The terrorists stepped on a mine planted by forces to halt infiltration.
03:01West Asia remains on edge after the Houthi strike.
03:04Riyadh airport, one Indian killed during the strike, three others in ICU.
03:08Saudis probe how their defence systems failed to stop the deadly attack.
03:25For the story that's breaking at this moment,
03:27India today has now accessed the opposition's plea in the Supreme Court
03:32against the Election Commission.
03:34The petition that was filed late this evening by Rahul Gandhi
03:38and other opposition leaders challenges the Election Commission's functioning
03:41the legality of key decisions taken during that special intensive revision exercise,
03:46alleged arbitrary voter deletions and the integrity of electoral databases.
03:52Petition claims Form 6 was modified illegally
03:55and the CEC being accused of unilaterally taking all decisions.
04:16Anisha Mathuru tracks the Supreme Court for us, joins me at the moment.
04:20Anisha, what more details can you give us
04:22and when is this petition likely to be heard?
04:25Well, Rajdeep, as far as a hearing is concerned,
04:27we're still waiting for an update from the Supreme Court.
04:30But remember, on the 5th of October,
04:32a similar petition had come up before the Supreme Court
04:35on these very topics.
04:36After the news reportage has pointed out
04:40allegations of unilateral decision-making in the Election Commission,
04:46when the petition had been filed earlier,
04:49the court had given the date of 27th of October.
04:51But after today's very, very dramatic scenes
04:54where we had the entire India Bloc leadership
04:57coming to the Supreme Court in person,
05:00we saw so many protesters entering the Supreme Court lawns,
05:03Supreme Court premises.
05:04Now this petition has raised similar issues.
05:07What have they said?
05:08First of all, that there was unilateral decision-making
05:11in the Election Commission,
05:12violating the Election Commission Act and the RP Act,
05:16that the independence and institutional functioning,
05:18and I'm reading from the petition here,
05:21independence and institutional functioning of the Election Commission
05:24is essential to conduct a free and fair election,
05:27which form basic structure of the Constitution.
05:30And concerns arise from the Election Commission's own responses
05:34under the RTI Act regarding the decision
05:37to commence the nationwide SIR.
05:39They have based their petition on these RTI responses
05:43to suggest that unilateral decision-making was conducted.
05:48There are questions being raised about the ECINET and ERONET
05:51who had access to changing the databases,
05:55who had access to changing the Form 6,
05:57and the safeguards available for reversing any erroneous decisions.
06:02When lakhs of people have been deleted from the voter list
06:06during the SIR,
06:07what exactly is happening with correction of those?
06:11If you can give me 10 more seconds,
06:13I just want to read out one more point.
06:15They have said that internal review in the Election Commission
06:18cannot substitute an independent audit
06:21of the electoral road databases.
06:23So they've called for all the file notings,
06:25they've called for independent review,
06:27as well as inquiry into what kind of decision-making
06:31has been happening.
06:32Now we'll have to wait and see when this matter will be heard.
06:34Back to you.
06:35Anisha Mathur, with those details,
06:37appreciate you joining me.
06:38Remember, as Anisha said,
06:39all of this happens on a rather dramatic day
06:41where India Bloc leaders led by Rahul Gandhi
06:44took a march to the Supreme Court.
06:46Thousands of Congress workers
06:47accompanied by the leader of the opposition
06:49and the other India Bloc leaders,
06:51Priyanka Gandhi, Akhilesh Yadam, Mamata Banerjee,
06:54and others, all of them,
06:56are part of this march.
06:58Rahul Gandhi had a press meet earlier,
07:00had urged Gyanesh Kumar to turn approver.
07:03The BJP has rubbished the opposition charges
07:05against the Chief Election Commissioner.
07:08Before we join our special guest,
07:09take a look at all that happened today.
07:22A week on the streets,
07:24a refused meeting with the Chief Justice,
07:26and now the opposition is taking its fight
07:29against the Election Commission
07:30to the Supreme Court.
07:33After CGI Suryakant declined to meet Rahul Gandhi
07:36and Malikar Junkarge,
07:37and advised the opposition to seek legal relief
07:40through a judicial petition,
07:42India Bloc leaders marched towards the top court on Monday
07:44to file their plea against Chief Election Commissioner
07:47Gyanesh Kumar and the SIR exercise.
07:50The Congress, Samajwadi Party,
07:52and Trinamore Congress leaders joined the march,
07:54with AISA President Neha Bora
07:56also accompanying the opposition.
07:58The petitioners include Rahul Gandhi,
08:01Malikar Junkarge,
08:02TMC MP Saugatov Roy,
08:04SP Chief Akhilesh Yadav,
08:06RJD's Tejasvi Prasad Yadav,
08:08Shiv Sena UBT MP Sanjay Rawat,
08:11and CPM General Secretary MA Bibi.
08:14The message is clear.
08:16The India Bloc is not backing down.
08:22In his reply to Rahul Gandhi and Malikar Junkarge,
08:26CGI Suryakant said the issues raised by the opposition
08:29were already subjudice.
08:31Discussing pending cases in a meeting,
08:33he said would go against the principles
08:35of separation of powers and judicial propriety.
08:39The CGI made it clear that citizens
08:41and elected representatives
08:43could approach the court for legal relief,
08:45but through the judicial process.
08:48And that is the route the opposition is now pursuing.
08:52You are the government.
08:54You are not only the government,
08:55you claim that you have perhaps
08:57the world's most popular leader as your prime minister.
08:59Every nation in the country bows to you.
09:02In fact, they are scared of you.
09:03So find out who is supporting us.
09:05If you are thinking that such large leaders
09:07are doing something anti-national,
09:09they should not be allowed on the streets.
09:12But before the march, Rahul Gandhi had a direct message for the CEC.
09:18It is very easy for you.
09:20Resign, get out of the way.
09:23No problem.
09:24We might even think of forgiving you
09:26because that will be a service to this nation.
09:28That will be a service to this constitution.
09:30We know that you have been forced by the prime minister,
09:33by Amit Shah, by Mr. Doval, by Mr. Adani.
09:35We know it.
09:36And we understand the type of pressure you are under.
09:38And we are forgiving people.
09:41The BJP meanwhile has hit back.
10:13From the streets to the Supreme Court,
10:16the opposition is determined to keep this confrontation alive.
10:19The BJP, however, is refusing to yield,
10:22pushing back against the opposition's charges
10:24and questioning its political motives.
10:26The battle is now unfolding on multiple fronts,
10:29from parliament to the streets to courts.
10:35With Preeti Chaudhary, Shreya Chatterjee,
10:38Moshmi Singh and Maria Shakeel,
10:40Bureau Report, India Today.
10:45Okay.
10:46My first guest today is someone
10:48who is very much part of the Congress's legal process.
10:51Someone who has been playing an important role
10:53for the Congress in drafting these petitions.
10:56He is a fifth-term sitting MP,
10:59member of the Congress Working Committee,
11:01senior national spokesperson of the Congress Party.
11:05Because remember, the Congress Party,
11:07and as you can see in those visuals,
11:09the Congress Party has virtually taken over this agitation.
11:12This was supposed to be India block.
11:14But if you look at the visuals,
11:15Rahul Gandhi and the Congress Party are dominating it.
11:19So clearly the Congress Party is now driving this agitation
11:22that we are seeing.
11:24And therefore, the focus will be
11:27on what the Congress Party does next.
11:29Joining us now, Dr. Abhishek Manu Singhvi joins me.
11:33Good to have you, Dr. Singhvi, on the show.
11:35My straight question to you.
11:37You're taking this battle to the Supreme Court.
11:40Are you willing, therefore, to risk the fact
11:43that if the Supreme Court says there is no case
11:45against the election commission
11:47or chief election commissioner,
11:49that's the end of your agitation?
11:50That's the end of vote chhori?
11:51Because we saw this with Rafael.
11:53We saw with Pegasus.
11:55We've seen it in previous cases
11:57that when you take it to the Supreme Court
11:59and if you don't win your battle,
12:01is that the end of the politics around it also?
12:04Rajdeep, this is your formulation.
12:06As you know very well,
12:08any issue has legal facets.
12:11It also has legal limitations.
12:13Allow me to answer properly your question.
12:15Every issue cannot have a full legal solution,
12:18but it has some legal solution.
12:19We have put those issues
12:21which we believe are justiciable.
12:24If those issues are not decided
12:26or are held not to be decidable,
12:28then that is one part of it.
12:29It doesn't mean that everything else
12:31about this issue gets completed
12:33and over with that stage.
12:36This is true of every issue.
12:37There is a political process.
12:39There is a legal process.
12:40Each has its limitations
12:41and circumscribing limits.
12:42So, the honest answer is,
12:45yes, if we raise issues ABC
12:48as we have done in this petition
12:51and the court gives a definitive legal answer
12:53that yes, we find,
12:55for example,
12:56I'm giving only an example obviously
12:57because I've been hearing your program
12:58and your reporter gave you a summary
13:00of what apparently is happening
13:01in the petition and elsewhere.
13:03Suppose the court gives a finding
13:05that we have checked up the record
13:07and we find that on issues like Form 6
13:10or let us say on the ERO's complaint,
13:14all of them decided collectively together.
13:17Factually, we find that.
13:18Or possibly the court says
13:20that it appears then
13:22that two of the election commissioners' letters
13:25were false.
13:26We don't know.
13:28Then that would be a legal decision.
13:30We obviously can't agitate it again.
13:33But it doesn't mean that everything
13:34the CEC does is kosher.
13:36So, let's not conflate
13:38the political process,
13:39the legal process,
13:40a fact-finding decision,
13:42a law-making decision.
13:44They're all separate silos and categories.
13:47But yes,
13:48to the extent an issue raised directly
13:50in the petition is answered directly
13:52in law on fact,
13:53it does close the matter.
13:55No, no.
13:55The reason I'm asking you this,
13:56I'm told that the Congress party
13:58or your legal eagles like yourself
13:59were divided on this issue.
14:01How far do you go to the Supreme Court?
14:03Do you call for the suspension
14:04and prosecution of Gyanesh Kumar?
14:06Or do you refer to specific issues
14:08like, for example,
14:09the legal questions that have been raised
14:12over the manner in which
14:13the Chief Justice of India
14:15by a parliamentary law
14:16was removed from the selection process?
14:18The fact that you have
14:19complete immunity
14:21post your retirement
14:22as election commissioner,
14:24those were the issues
14:25many others wanted to raise.
14:26Apparently, a section wanted
14:28Gyanesh Kumar to be prosecuted.
14:30It appears you've gone
14:31for the second route.
14:32You've gone for the jugular
14:35of Gyanesh Kumar.
14:36You have what is there written.
14:38It's not something hidden.
14:40It's not a state secret.
14:41Your reporters already claim
14:43to have a copy of it.
14:44So, there's nothing hidden about it.
14:45There's no two discussions
14:47possible about it.
14:48What is there is there.
14:49But obviously,
14:50we also understand the law.
14:51For example,
14:52I'm giving only an example answer
14:53because the matter has not yet come up
14:54and I'm not at liberty
14:56to discuss what will be argued, etc.
14:58But take, for example,
14:59a prayer
15:01which is asked by Rajdeep Sardesai
15:03that I want to join this petition
15:05because I want to pray.
15:06I'm giving only an example hypothetical
15:08that Mr. Gyanesh Kumar
15:10should be removed.
15:12Now, you and I
15:13and everybody else knows
15:14that Gyanesh Kumar's removal
15:15has a formal process of impeachment.
15:18So, it's possible
15:18the court may say
15:19we may agree with you
15:21we may disagree with you
15:21but we can't do it.
15:22You have to do it through impeachment.
15:23We can't remove him.
15:25So,
15:26those issues
15:27may not be taken.
15:28Now,
15:28you may want to take them.
15:30Even I want to take them.
15:31I'm not happy with Gyanesh Kumar.
15:32But it doesn't mean
15:33that I will take every issue
15:34in the court
15:35which the court
15:35cannot attempt to answer.
15:37These are nuances.
15:38There are no black and white answers
15:40Rajdeep.
15:41No, no.
15:42So, I want to understand
15:43is at the heart of your petition
15:46Gyanesh Kumar
15:47or the fact that you believe
15:49elections in India
15:49are not a level playing field
15:51and therefore affect
15:52the basic structure
15:52of the constitution?
15:54Is your petition
15:55about electoral reforms
15:56that you want
15:57or is it about Gyanesh Kumar?
15:58Because in the past
15:59you've said
15:59you want ballot papers
16:01you want the SR process
16:02to be reversed.
16:03Is that all
16:04your focus
16:05or is it Gyanesh Kumar?
16:07Let me answer Rajdeep.
16:08As I said
16:09your reporter
16:09has already claimed
16:10to have read
16:10and seen the petition.
16:12There's nothing secret about it.
16:14One is the cause
16:15of much of the other.
16:16So, our petition
16:17is about both.
16:19Many of the irregularities,
16:21the illegalities,
16:22the absolute
16:22whataboutery
16:23going on
16:23in the election commission
16:24is because of this person.
16:26He is the cause of it.
16:27So, certainly
16:27he and the issues
16:29are intertwined.
16:30That doesn't mean
16:31that we do not know
16:33that he can be impeached
16:34and that too
16:35by majority rule.
16:36That does not mean
16:37that we will seek
16:38reliefs which the courts
16:39can't give.
16:40But certainly
16:40we will say
16:41and have said
16:43that look
16:43you must declare
16:44such decisions
16:45for example
16:47erroneous,
16:47quash them.
16:48Take for example
16:49a simple case.
16:50The section says
16:50that Rajdeep and Singhvi
16:52and the third person
16:53should decide
16:53collegially,
16:54collectively.
16:55Suppose an examination
16:57by the court
16:57finds that it is not so.
16:58We are certainly
16:59seeking a quashing
17:00on that basis.
17:02but you cannot
17:03separate
17:04Mr. Gyanesh Kumar
17:05from the
17:07election commission
17:08and the larger
17:08issues of electoral
17:10malpractice
17:10going on in this country.
17:12Are you seeking
17:15a reversal
17:16of the SIR
17:17process?
17:18Of course.
17:20And a suspension
17:21of it?
17:21Do I go back
17:22to a pre-SIR
17:23electoral role?
17:24Are you calling
17:25a return to a pre-SIR
17:27electoral role?
17:27The problem Rajdeep
17:29is that you are
17:29asking binary questions
17:30as if there are
17:31binary answers.
17:32The answer is
17:32yes and no.
17:33I'll tell you why.
17:34Of course we are
17:35seeking a reversion
17:36of a stoppage
17:36of this SIR.
17:37But we are not
17:38against SIR per se.
17:39This is nothing
17:40new than SIR.
17:42IR is an intensive
17:43revision going on
17:44for 50-60 years.
17:45It is only Mr.
17:46Gyanesh Kumar
17:47and the BJP
17:47government
17:48which have distorted
17:49the meaning saying
17:50that in a state
17:51as populous as Bihar
17:52we will do a special
17:53intensive revision
17:54three months before
17:54and give no time
17:56to examine matters.
17:57nobody is saying
17:58that you do not
17:58have after all
17:59in the last 70 years
18:00other election
18:00commissions must have
18:01done revisions
18:02of the electoral
18:04role.
18:04What is so great
18:05about the word IR
18:06it is only a revision
18:07of the electoral
18:08role.
18:09But nobody does it
18:10in this perverse
18:11manner by giving
18:12you three months
18:13no appeals
18:16and saying
18:16we will decide
18:17whether Mr.
18:18Rajdeep is in
18:18or out after
18:19the elections are
18:20over.
18:21Can I ask you
18:22two political
18:23questions very quickly?
18:24One the BJP
18:24will raise
18:25and I am sure
18:25I am going to be
18:26joined by a BJP
18:27guest they will
18:27raise it
18:28which is simply
18:28that the Congress
18:29raises these issues
18:30only when they
18:31lose an election
18:32not when they win.
18:33So therefore
18:34their fundamental
18:35problem is losing
18:36elections not
18:37actually about
18:38SIR or Gyanesh Kumar.
18:41It's not me who
18:42is saying it
18:42even the DMK
18:43your erstwhile ally
18:44is saying it
18:44even DMK
18:45your erstwhile
18:46India party ally
18:47is saying that.
18:49this water
18:50this water
18:51boundary has
18:52become stale
18:52now.
18:53It's become
18:53repetitive.
18:54It's making a
18:55caricature of
18:55our argument.
18:56Nobody is
18:57suggesting that
18:57every election
18:58every small
18:59big by
19:00election
19:00major election
19:01big state
19:01small skate
19:02BJP prominent
19:03not prominent
19:04is intended
19:05to be rigged.
19:06Nobody has
19:06said so.
19:07These are
19:08strategic moves
19:08where things
19:10matter.
19:11A lot of
19:12things don't
19:12matter to Rajdeep
19:13but where
19:14it matters
19:14to Rajdeep
19:15he is able
19:16to manage
19:16with a certain
19:17degree of
19:18collusion
19:20conspiracy etc.
19:21That is what
19:21we are attacking.
19:22And I told you
19:23this is a caricature
19:24of the stand
19:24which we have
19:25taken.
19:27We gave you
19:28a proof about
19:29Karnatak.
19:30We gave you
19:30a proof about
19:31Maharashtra.
19:32We gave you
19:32a proof about
19:32Haryana.
19:33I can accept
19:34that yes
19:35we will lose
19:36there.
19:36But have you
19:37ever come out
19:37and given me
19:38a factual
19:39rebuttal
19:39point by point
19:40to the proof
19:40submitted by
19:41Rahul Gandhi?
19:42What we have
19:42got by the
19:43way just
19:43for five
19:44seconds more
19:44is these
19:46perverse kind
19:47of comments
19:47that no we
19:48can't give
19:48you a
19:48readable
19:49format.
19:50Please make
19:50an application
19:51under this
19:51form then
19:52we will
19:52consider.
19:53Please come
19:54after one
19:54month we
19:54will consider.
19:55Not once
19:56has Rahul
19:57Gandhi's
19:57three,
19:57four,
19:58five packets
19:58of mountains
20:00of evidence
20:01received a
20:02factual reply.
20:03Just like
20:04this give me
20:05five seconds
20:06more Rajdeep
20:06this current
20:08response after
20:09many days of
20:10the Indian
20:10Express report
20:11to put on
20:12a united
20:13face clearly
20:14on instructions
20:15from the
20:15political
20:15masters.
20:16Says all
20:17is hunky
20:17dory,
20:18all is
20:18well in
20:19the state
20:19of Denmark.
20:20We all
20:21took unanimous
20:21decisions.
20:22Did you
20:23ever say
20:24that the
20:25Indian
20:25Express was
20:25lying or
20:27the letters
20:27quoted by
20:28the Indian
20:28Express are
20:29not ours,
20:30they are
20:30forged?
20:31Either those
20:32are true or
20:34this crest
20:34statement is
20:35forged.
20:36So have
20:37you got
20:37an answer
20:38point by
20:38point?
20:39You only
20:39got what
20:39a
20:39voucher?
20:40General from
20:41a mountaintop
20:41giving you
20:42we are
20:42all together.
20:43We have
20:43given all
20:44the
20:44issues.
20:45Let me
20:45leave it
20:46there.
20:46Clearly
20:46that paper
20:47trail which
20:48has come
20:48out will
20:49be possibly
20:50a smoking
20:51gun.
20:51We will
20:51wait and
20:52see how
20:52that plays
20:52out in
20:53the Supreme
20:53Court.
20:54Dr.
20:54Abhishek
20:55Manu
20:55Singhvi,
20:55from the
20:56streets of
20:56Delhi where
20:57you were
20:57walking to
20:58the Supreme
20:58Court to
20:58joining me
20:59here today.
21:00Good to
21:00have you
21:00on the
21:01show.
21:01I guess
21:02you lost
21:02a few
21:03kilos in
21:04the heat
21:04of Delhi
21:04today.
21:05I must
21:05tell you
21:05that a
21:06lot of
21:07your viewers
21:07may not
21:07know this
21:08but to
21:09experience
21:09what I
21:10saw today
21:11it was
21:12largely or
21:13completely
21:13spontaneous.
21:15We didn't
21:15even know.
21:16Look at
21:17the lakhs
21:17of thousands
21:18of people
21:18who came
21:19on a
21:19very narrow
21:20stretch from
21:20Supreme
21:21Court to
21:22Cannot Place
21:22we walked.
21:23I took a
21:24bus only
21:24for half a
21:25kilometer.
21:25Mainly
21:26congress
21:26workers I
21:27sometimes don't
21:28see them at
21:28election time
21:29but I see
21:29them today
21:30during the
21:30protests.
21:31I wonder
21:31where is
21:32that same
21:32energy
21:32during election
21:34time.
21:34I just
21:35wish that
21:35you were
21:36there to
21:36see the
21:36electric
21:37energy.
21:37I saw
21:38the energy.
21:39I was
21:39there.
21:40I watched
21:41it.
21:41There was
21:42energy but
21:42I wonder
21:43where that
21:43energy goes
21:44at election
21:44time.
21:45But that
21:45did it
21:45for another
21:46day.
21:46Electoral
21:47results don't
21:47validate
21:48everything.
21:48That's the
21:49mistake the
21:49BJP makes.
21:51Okay.
21:51Thank you
21:51very much
21:52Dr. Abhishek
21:53Manu Singh
21:53for joining
21:54me on the
21:54show tonight.
21:55Good to
21:55have you.
21:56Let's
21:57go on.
21:57Okay.
21:57We've
21:57heard from
21:58the
21:58congress.
22:01BJP leader
22:02and also
22:02senior
22:03advocate at
22:03the Supreme
22:04Court.
22:04Nalin Kohli
22:05joins us.
22:06Mr. Kohli,
22:07the Congress
22:07and the
22:08India bloc
22:09going to
22:09the Supreme
22:10Court,
22:10filing a
22:11petition against
22:12the Election
22:12Commission.
22:14Your reactions
22:15to that,
22:16is this
22:16battle now
22:17going to be
22:18settled in
22:18the courtroom
22:19and not
22:20necessarily
22:21politically
22:21alone?
22:23Well,
22:24Rajdeep,
22:24anyone has
22:25the right to
22:25approach the
22:26court.
22:27In fact,
22:28Chief Justice
22:29Surya Khan
22:29himself said
22:30so in
22:31several media
22:33interactions
22:34that anyone
22:35who wants to
22:36come to the
22:36court can
22:36file a
22:37petition.
22:37The
22:38Congress has
22:38done so.
22:39They've done
22:39it on every
22:40issue.
22:40They've done
22:40it on Ram
22:41Mandir.
22:41Their lawyers
22:42at least have
22:42been there
22:43on other
22:45issues.
22:45So if they
22:45have chosen
22:46to again
22:46go to the
22:46court,
22:47no harm.
22:48But this
22:48is not a
22:48political
22:49battle.
22:49This is a
22:50battle of
22:50the Congress
22:51trying to
22:51basically win
22:52an election
22:53without the
22:54basis of
22:54votes.
22:55Because if
22:55the Election
22:56Commission
22:57was so wrong,
22:58then how
22:58did the
22:59Congress win
22:59governments and
23:00form
23:01states like
23:02Himachal,
23:02Telangana?
23:03How did an
23:04opposition
23:04party win
23:05it in
23:05Tamil Nadu?
23:06So I think
23:07this is just
23:07simply when the
23:08Congress wins
23:08an election,
23:09everything is
23:10gang-ho.
23:10When they lose
23:11an election,
23:12then the
23:12Election
23:12Commission is
23:13bad, or the
23:14EVMs are
23:14bad, or they
23:15have another
23:15excuse, this
23:16time being
23:16time being
23:17yes, I
23:17are.
23:17But does
23:18this in
23:19some way
23:19unnerve you?
23:20The fact
23:20that this
23:21is now
23:2110 days
23:22of protests
23:22consistently
23:23raising their
23:25voice,
23:26Congress
23:27leaders,
23:27India
23:28bloc leaders,
23:29finding new
23:30innovative ways
23:31to stay in
23:32the headlines.
23:33Should this
23:33not trouble
23:34the ruling
23:35party if
23:36day after
23:36day the
23:37opposition is
23:38finding ways
23:40of targeting
23:41your government?
23:42They're
23:42unrelenting.
23:44So what?
23:46And has
23:47Prime Minister
23:47Modi stopped
23:48working?
23:48He was in
23:49Chennai
23:50inaugurating a
23:51metro service.
23:53The Home
23:54Minister is
23:54busy working.
23:55The rest of
23:55the government
23:56is busy working.
23:56Has the
23:56government stopped
23:57working?
23:58No.
23:59Everybody's
23:59doing their
23:59job.
24:00The Home
24:02Minister has
24:02been silent.
24:03The fact is
24:04there was a
24:04police crackdown
24:05on the weekend.
24:06The Home
24:07Minister certainly
24:08didn't respond to
24:09the criticism of
24:10that.
24:10The Home
24:11Minister has
24:11been unusually
24:12silent,
24:13Mr.
24:13Kohli.
24:14Well, I
24:14didn't realise
24:15that the
24:15Home Minister
24:16was the
24:16P.R.O.
24:17of the
24:17police,
24:18Delhi
24:18police.
24:19If someone
24:19has that
24:20expectation
24:20that the
24:21Honourable
24:21Home Minister
24:21of India,
24:22the world's
24:23largest
24:23democracy,
24:24is supposed
24:24to speak
24:25and give
24:26updates on
24:26behalf of
24:27the Delhi
24:27police,
24:28then that
24:28person has
24:29a very
24:29poor,
24:30even
24:31probably a
24:32ridiculous
24:32understanding
24:33of how
24:33the executive
24:34functions.
24:34So I
24:35don't think
24:35the Home
24:35Minister of
24:36India is
24:36supposed to
24:37speak on
24:37these issues.
24:38He has
24:39several other
24:39important things
24:40to do.
24:40An opposition
24:41that on a
24:42daily basis
24:42comes up
24:43and tries to
24:43manufacture a
24:44controversy
24:45can't mean
24:46that the
24:46governance of
24:46this country
24:47has to
24:47halt.
24:47It certainly
24:48is not
24:48going to
24:48halt
24:48because of
24:49that.
24:50You see,
24:50the larger
24:51question,
24:52I interviewed
24:52Supriya Sulej
24:53just two
24:53days ago
24:54at our
24:54Mumbai,
24:54India Today
24:55conclave,
24:55and she
24:56said,
24:56unlike in
24:57the time
24:57when Arun
24:57Jetli and
24:58Sushma
24:58Swaraj was
24:59there,
24:59and there
25:00there was
25:00a genuine
25:01attempt to
25:01have a
25:01dialogue to
25:02engage
25:02between
25:03government
25:03and
25:03opposition,
25:04there's
25:04no one
25:04to even
25:05engage
25:05with,
25:06which is
25:06why we
25:06are forced
25:07to come
25:07to the
25:07streets.
25:08If no
25:08one is
25:08going to
25:09engage
25:09with us,
25:10no one
25:10is going
25:10to answer
25:11our serious
25:11concerns,
25:12what option
25:13do we have?
25:13Go to the
25:14streets and
25:14now go to
25:15the courtroom,
25:15knock on
25:16the doors of
25:16the courtroom.
25:17This government
25:18doesn't want to
25:19listen to
25:19anyone other
25:20than the
25:20voice of its
25:21own,
25:21is what she
25:22said.
25:23That's her
25:24version.
25:25Supriya is a
25:25friend also,
25:26and she's a
25:27seasoned
25:27political person,
25:28but when it
25:29comes to,
25:30say,
25:30the Congress
25:30Party or,
25:31say,
25:32Mr.
25:32Rahul Gandhi,
25:33we have seen
25:34a lot of
25:35statements from
25:36him.
25:36Here's a
25:36person who,
25:37as the
25:37leader of
25:38opposition of
25:38the world's
25:39largest
25:39democracy,
25:40goes abroad
25:41after winning
25:42an election
25:42in terms of
25:43being a
25:44member of
25:44parliament to
25:45say what
25:46is Europe
25:46and America
25:47doing about
25:48democracy in
25:49India.
25:50I mean,
25:50so the
25:51Congress is
25:51a bundle of
25:52contradictions.
25:52So let's
25:53leave it for
25:53a second.
25:54The Congress
25:55is equally
25:55to blame
25:56when do they
25:57allow
25:57Parliament to
25:58function?
25:58How many
25:59times has
25:59the Home
26:00Minister,
26:01no less
26:01than the
26:02Prime
26:02Minister,
26:02how many
26:03times have
26:03the Parliamentary
26:04Minister,
26:04Affairs Minister,
26:05said that we
26:06are ready to
26:07discuss any
26:08and every
26:08issue,
26:08but as per
26:09the rules
26:09of Parliament,
26:10has Parliament
26:11functioned?
26:11So it takes
26:12two to tango.
26:13I think the
26:14opposition has
26:14its own
26:15version,
26:15the government
26:16has its own
26:16version,
26:17and the people
26:18of India are
26:18voting on the
26:19basis of that
26:19version,
26:20and who's
26:21getting elected
26:22and who's
26:22losing the
26:23election is
26:24being decided
26:24by the
26:24voters.
26:25Now,
26:26are you saying
26:26that there is
26:27no responsibility
26:28of the government,
26:29of the top
26:29ministers,
26:30Prime Minister,
26:31Home Minister,
26:31to have a
26:32recent dialogue
26:33with the
26:34opposition?
26:34I mean,
26:35unless you have
26:36a dialogue,
26:37what is the
26:37endgame here?
26:38The opposition
26:39wants Gyanesh
26:40Kumar out,
26:41they want
26:41electoral reforms,
26:42the BJP is
26:43standing firmly
26:44behind Gyanesh
26:45Kumar,
26:45and this has
26:45now become a
26:46daily ding-dong
26:47battle.
26:47What's the
26:47endgame if
26:48there's going
26:48to be no
26:49dialogue,
26:50no reach
26:51out,
26:51no engagement?
26:53Thank you,
26:54Rajdeep.
26:54The key word
26:55in your
26:55question was
26:55reasonable.
26:56You see,
26:57reasonable.
26:58Let me give
26:58you an example
26:59just between
26:59us, you
27:00and me,
27:00for example.
27:01I demand
27:02that you
27:02should be
27:03exited from
27:03your channel.
27:04That's my
27:05demand.
27:06You are
27:06employed by
27:07your channel
27:07as per a
27:08procedure.
27:09You have a
27:09contract.
27:10I say to
27:10hell with the
27:10contract,
27:11it's my desire
27:11that you should
27:12not be in
27:12this channel,
27:13and that's
27:14supposed to be
27:14the basis of
27:15your channel
27:15to engage with
27:16me.
27:16Are we
27:17taking this
27:18to what
27:19levels?
27:19Is that
27:20reasonable?
27:20It's
27:20ridiculous.
27:21Nothing
27:22short of
27:22ridiculous.
27:24Four or
27:24five days
27:25ago,
27:25the Supreme
27:25Court of
27:26India
27:26comes out
27:26with an
27:27order saying
27:28what is
27:28happening in
27:28Punjab,
27:29and the
27:29elections in
27:30Punjab were
27:30a farce.
27:31It reorders
27:3250 seats to
27:33go to
27:34voting again.
27:35Has
27:35any one of
27:36them gone
27:36to Punjab
27:37and said
27:37democracy is
27:38in danger?
27:38What about
27:39the stooges
27:39of the Punjab
27:40government who
27:40are leading
27:41the entire
27:43so-called
27:44people's
27:44movement on
27:45the streets
27:45in Delhi?
27:46Why are
27:46they not
27:47in Punjab
27:47if they
27:47care for
27:48democracy?
27:49Why are
27:49they not
27:49doing that?
27:50That's a
27:50court order
27:51no less
27:51of the
27:51Supreme
27:51Court.
27:52So the
27:52key word
27:53is exactly
27:54what you
27:54asked,
27:54reasonable.
27:55You don't
27:56engage with
27:56something that
27:57is beyond
27:57reason.
27:58You know,
27:59you're sounding
28:00unusually combative
28:01today.
28:02I'm not being
28:03unusually combative,
28:04I'm just making
28:05a strong
28:05argument.
28:06No, no, no,
28:06of course you're
28:07making a strong
28:07argument.
28:08But you're
28:09making an
28:09argument, but
28:10somewhere is
28:11there a sense
28:12within the
28:12government that
28:14the longer
28:15these protests
28:16continue, they
28:16are creating
28:17some kind of
28:18a trust
28:18deficit in
28:19the government
28:20that there
28:21is something
28:23somewhere wrong
28:23with the way
28:24elections are
28:25being conducted
28:26in this country
28:26and that trust
28:27deficit is
28:28dangerous for
28:29the government
28:29and for
28:30democracy if
28:31you lose the
28:32trust in
28:33institutions.
28:35who is
28:36responsible for
28:37the breakdown
28:37of that
28:38trust?
28:39People who
28:40after getting
28:41elected by
28:42the same
28:42election
28:43commission,
28:44people who
28:44ran SIRs
28:46in their
28:46regimes are
28:48the ones who
28:49are now taking
28:49the certification
28:50of the entire
28:51process.
28:52This is
28:52hypocrisy and
28:53duplicity.
28:54I mean,
28:55now you choose
28:55which is better.
28:56As far as I'm
28:57concerned, it's
28:58both.
28:58Let me take on
28:59the Congress
29:00straight.
29:01Trust deficit.
29:02You want to
29:03go back to
29:03paper ballots?
29:04And what did
29:05the Supreme
29:05Court just
29:05rule on
29:06Punjab?
29:07On paper
29:07ballots?
29:08In Punjab?
29:09Ordered a
29:09repoll?
29:10And have
29:11you heard
29:11Mr. Rahul
29:11Gandhi give
29:12any comment
29:14about democracy
29:14being in
29:15danger in
29:15Punjab?
29:16Or any of
29:17the opposition
29:18leaders?
29:18Or any of
29:19the young
29:19leaders who
29:20are so-called
29:21leading the
29:21protests?
29:22Where is this?
29:23So Rajdeep,
29:24let's pause.
29:24This is not
29:25me being
29:25combative.
29:26This is just
29:27me showing
29:27the mirror to
29:28the opposition
29:29parties.
29:29You can't
29:30have it in
29:31this manner
29:31that you
29:31that the
29:32opposition
29:32parties will
29:33invoke Article
29:3419 and
29:35say I
29:36have under
29:36the Constitution
29:37of India
29:37the right
29:38to protest.
29:39Of course,
29:40not you.
29:41Everyone has
29:42the right to
29:43protest peacefully
29:44without breaking
29:45law in a
29:47manner that is
29:47reasonable without
29:49causing a
29:50breakdown of
29:51public order.
29:52Let's not
29:52forget the
29:53first amendment
29:54to the
29:54Constitution of
29:55India,
29:561951,
29:57was not when
29:58Mr. Narendra
29:58Modi was
29:59Prime Minister,
30:00but Jawaharlal
30:00Nehru was,
30:01which imposed
30:02the reasonable
30:03restrictions in
30:03Article 19.
30:05Now let's
30:05pause.
30:06The right to
30:06protest is not
30:07an absolute
30:07right.
30:08What about the
30:09right to life
30:09and liberty and
30:10the right to
30:10have your
30:11profession?
30:11What about the
30:12children who go
30:12to school?
30:13What about the
30:14shops that have
30:15forced to be
30:15shut down?
30:16What about
30:16hospitals in which
30:18people are unable
30:18to reach because of
30:19traffic jams?
30:20If the police is
30:21standing there,
30:22what about their
30:22constitutional rights?
30:24Pulling a
30:24police person's hair,
30:25biting them,
30:26is that really
30:27a right to
30:27protest?
30:28Are they not
30:28family members?
30:29Sir, there are
30:31also videos of
30:32the Hindu
30:32Raksha Dal
30:32beating up
30:33protesters.
30:34Wrong.
30:35Absolutely.
30:35You see,
30:35we can...
30:36Absolutely wrong.
30:37An action must
30:38happen against
30:39them.
30:39It is happening.
30:40Police has
30:40gone ahead and
30:41taken those
30:41people in
30:42custody.
30:42But if the
30:44police takes...
30:44No, no,
30:45one minute.
30:45But if police
30:46takes any of
30:47the protesters
30:47into custody,
30:48democracy is in
30:49danger.
30:49That's the
30:50argument we
30:50hear in the
30:51court.
30:52My limited
30:53point in
30:53conclusion to
30:54you, Mr.
30:54Kohli, is
30:55simply this.
30:56Do you see
30:56an end game?
30:57Because now
30:58it's 10 days,
30:58as I said.
30:59For 10
31:00continuous days,
31:01the cry is
31:02being raised,
31:03Gyanesh Kumar
31:04must go.
31:05Do you
31:06believe that
31:07a time will
31:07come when
31:08his continuance
31:09becomes untenable
31:10for this
31:10government or
31:11not?
31:12I saw a
31:13tweet by one
31:14of the leaders
31:15of the young
31:15movement.
31:16And the
31:17tweet says
31:18that Delhi
31:18police has
31:20got a Delhi
31:20government,
31:21the government
31:22of India
31:22has designated
31:24three spots
31:25for protests.
31:26Three different
31:26spots in
31:27different parts
31:27of the city
31:28moving out
31:28Chantar Mantar
31:29which causes
31:29inconvenience.
31:30This was also
31:31pointed out
31:32by the court.
31:33They are the
31:34people who go
31:34to the court
31:35on a daily
31:35basis and
31:36they say,
31:36have you
31:36consulted the
31:37people of
31:37India?
31:38So therefore,
31:38if this is
31:39the basis
31:40of a reasonable
31:41dialogue,
31:41then suppose
31:42tomorrow they
31:43say that the
31:43people of
31:44India want
31:44Rajdeep not
31:45to be the
31:45channel person
31:47on this
31:47show.
31:48That is how
31:48it's going to
31:49be run.
31:49That's not how
31:50governance
31:50and democracy
31:51runs.
31:52So somebody
31:52has to come
31:53up with a
31:53reasonable
31:54argument before
31:54you talk about
31:55engaging on a
31:56reasonable basis.
31:58Okay.
31:58I'm going to
31:59leave it there.
32:00The reasonableness
32:01argument can go on
32:03endlessly.
32:05what is a reasonable
32:06way to protest?
32:08What is a reasonable
32:09way to raise
32:10issues?
32:11But Nalinkoli,
32:12for joining me
32:13on the show
32:14tonight, thank
32:15you very much.
32:16Thank you,
32:16Raj.
32:19Now, all of
32:20this, of course,
32:21comes against the
32:21growing backdrop
32:22of the debate
32:23over the right
32:24to protest.
32:25Today, the Delhi
32:26police denotified
32:27Jantar Mantar in
32:28the heart of the
32:29city as a
32:30designated protest
32:31site.
32:32The decision
32:32follows the
32:33weekend crackdown
32:34on the CJP
32:35and left protests.
32:37The unprecedented
32:37security clampdown
32:39over the weekend
32:40is now also
32:41under the Supreme
32:42Court scrutiny.
32:43Where does the
32:44right to protest
32:45begin and
32:46reasonable
32:46restrictions start?
32:48Here is a report.
32:52Jantar Mantar
32:54witness to many
32:54agitations is
32:56removed from the
32:57list of designated
32:58protest sites.
33:00The Delhi police
33:01in its latest
33:02guidelines has
33:03listed Ramlila
33:04ground, Burari
33:05ground and CBD
33:06ground in East
33:07Delhi as the new
33:09designated sites
33:10for protest.
33:13The order was
33:14issued on Sunday,
33:15just a day after
33:16the police cracked
33:17down on protest
33:18against CEC
33:19Gyanesh Kumar.
33:21Those at the
33:22receiving end
33:23included students
33:24and even senior
33:26advocates of
33:27Supreme Court.
33:27The matter was
33:28raised in the
33:29Apex Court on
33:30Sunday.
33:31The Supreme Court
33:32also took up
33:33another petition
33:34against the
33:34closure of several
33:35metro stations
33:36and cancellation of
33:38trains in
33:38violation of the
33:39court's order on
33:40Friday.
33:42A special bench
33:44of Justices
33:45Jay Bakchi and
33:46V. Mohanna
33:46passed an interim
33:48order.
33:48There will be no
33:49illegal detention
33:50of people gathering
33:51peacefully, especially
33:53outside areas under
33:54prohibitory order.
33:56Any detention must
33:57follow procedure
33:58established by law.
34:00Metro and rail
34:01services should
34:02function normally,
34:03subject only to
34:04necessary public
34:05order regulations.
34:07Internet services
34:08not to be disrupted.
34:10All the barricades
34:11should be removed
34:12unless absolutely
34:13warranted.
34:14lawyers, journalists
34:16and professionals
34:17should not be
34:18obstructed in their
34:19duties and access
34:21to courts must
34:22remain free.
34:24The court found
34:25primal fissile case
34:26of contempt and
34:27issued notices to
34:28Union Home Secretary,
34:30Delhi Police
34:30Commissioner, DMRC,
34:32seeking their response
34:33by Tuesday.
34:35The court on Monday
34:36took up another
34:37petition on legality
34:38of decisions taken
34:39by the EC.
34:40The court clarified
34:41it had neither
34:42approved nor
34:43disapproved changes
34:44in Form 6
34:45introduced by the EC
34:47after Bihar SIR.
34:48With a fresh petition
34:50filed by opposition
34:51leaders led by Rahul
34:52Gandhi, SIR will
34:54face further
34:55judicial scrutiny.
34:56Bureau Report,
34:57India Today.
35:01Let's raise the
35:02big questions then
35:02on our talking
35:03point tonight.
35:04Has the right to
35:05protest been
35:05curbed?
35:06Is the police
35:07out to crush
35:09dissent?
35:10Restrictions on
35:11protests, are they
35:12excessive?
35:12Is there a need to
35:13strike balance between
35:14freedom and duties
35:16in this country?
35:17Joining me on this
35:18program, Shadan
35:18Farasad, Senior
35:19Advocate, Supreme
35:20Court, he was
35:21among those who
35:22was virtually
35:23pulled away by
35:25the police and
35:26those images went
35:27viral and he's
35:28gone to the court.
35:29Justice Sanjeeb
35:30Banerjee, former
35:31Chief Justice of
35:32Meghalaya High
35:32Court, former
35:33judge and Prakash
35:34Singh, former
35:35Police Chief and
35:36DG of the BSF.
35:37Good to have all
35:38of you on the
35:39show.
35:39Shadan, I want
35:40to come to you
35:40first because I
35:41want to play these
35:41visuals.
35:42You were bodily
35:44lifted even though
35:45you were peacefully
35:46protesting on
35:47Saturday.
35:48You want to
35:49explain what you
35:50went through and
35:51why you've chosen
35:52to go to the
35:53Supreme Court on
35:54this entire process
35:56of lawyers and
35:57indeed journalists
35:58being targeted by
36:00the Delhi police?
36:03Yes, thanks.
36:04Thanks, Rajjeep.
36:04So, I was
36:06actually not even
36:07protesting.
36:08What happened at
36:09that moment, I'll
36:09tell you.
36:10I was at a seminar
36:10in Central Delhi on
36:12that day which I
36:14had scheduled for
36:14a few weeks
36:16before.
36:16But I did
36:17intend to go to
36:17the protests.
36:18It wasn't clear
36:18if any protests
36:19will happen because
36:20there was just
36:21basically Delhi was
36:22turned into a
36:22garrison city.
36:24But around 1pm I
36:26got a message that
36:27there is the
36:29protest is happening
36:29at Delhi hut and
36:31I was in, you
36:32know, at
36:33somewhere around
36:33Lodi road which
36:34is very close.
36:35So, I took my
36:35car and I was on
36:36the way to
36:37Delhi hut and
36:38just below the
36:39Sabda junk flyover
36:40on the other side
36:41of Delhi hut, not
36:42on the side of
36:42Delhi hut, there was
36:43basically a jam
36:45because that's the
36:45place at which
36:46point the police
36:48had just detained
36:49and put Neha
36:50Bora in a
36:50police van.
36:52And I just got
36:53out of the car and
36:54then I basically
36:54there was between
36:56the student groups
36:56and the police
36:57trying to shoo her
36:58away, there was
36:59about 30-40
37:00minutes the van
37:01couldn't leave.
37:02And we were just
37:03observing and we
37:04were present at the
37:05space.
37:05And then after the
37:06police managed to
37:07get that van off,
37:08they started picking
37:08up everybody who was
37:09present on the flyover,
37:10whether it was a
37:11journalist or it was
37:12somebody else.
37:14And Mr.
37:15Yogen Yadav was
37:16there adjacent to
37:18me and I think he
37:18was giving an
37:19interview to some
37:20YouTube channel when
37:20suddenly out of
37:21nowhere five policemen
37:22came and then they
37:23just grabbed him and
37:25tried to shove him.
37:26At that stage I just
37:27tried to hold on to
37:28him and intervene because
37:29it was just very rough.
37:30I just felt so bad.
37:31There's 60 plus
37:31year old man just
37:32being, you know, he's
37:34not even doing anything
37:35and they just come and
37:36try and grab.
37:37And then when I tried
37:39to intervene, they
37:39grabbed me also.
37:40The police, two of
37:42them just pulled me in
37:43different directions by
37:44the shirt.
37:45So my shirt fully tore
37:46off and thereafter they
37:48just grabbed me one by
37:50one side.
37:50You can see that that
37:51very screenshot by the
37:52shirt and all fours.
37:53And I think there were
37:54some younger lawyers who
37:55were there and they of
37:56course knew me and the
37:57girl there right now,
37:59she was trying to
37:59extricate me from that.
38:01And then they threw me
38:02in a moving police van.
38:03So that's exactly what
38:05with a bunch of other
38:06students.
38:07Did they give you, did
38:08they give you a, you
38:09were officially detained?
38:10Did they, were you
38:11officially?
38:12In none of this, there
38:13was any detention, there
38:13was no detention.
38:15No, there was no
38:16detention order which
38:17is passed.
38:18These are all de facto
38:19detentions.
38:19That's how it's
38:20happening all over Delhi.
38:21There are no formal
38:21detention orders or
38:22anything like that.
38:23I mean, you see how
38:24they are doing it.
38:25There's no question of
38:26a detention order.
38:27No, so what, did
38:28they give you any
38:29official reason for
38:30pulling you away in
38:31this manner?
38:32The reason basically is
38:33they didn't want
38:34anybody on the street
38:35where a potential
38:35protest could happen.
38:36That's all.
38:37So anybody who's
38:38there, who's present
38:39and who they see as
38:40a potential risk,
38:41they're going to
38:42remove and that's
38:43how they behave.
38:43That's how they
38:44were behaving in
38:44Connaught Place
38:45yesterday.
38:45You could be a
38:46bystander journalist
38:47just standing there.
38:48They were just
38:48grabbing you and
38:49shoving you in
38:50police vans.
38:50So that's the level.
38:52That's why when I
38:53appeared before the
38:53Supreme Court yesterday,
38:54I told the court that
38:55it felt like you were
38:57in a police state.
38:58Because, I mean, of
38:59course, protests are
39:00there and it is
39:01handled.
39:01It's not even a
39:02protest.
39:02The idea was, the
39:03instructions from the
39:04political class were
39:05that you cannot let a
39:07protest begin anywhere
39:08in Delhi.
39:09You have to crush it
39:10there and then.
39:10Use whatever you have
39:11to.
39:11It's evident because
39:12that's the way the
39:13police was operating
39:13on the ground.
39:14It's absolutely
39:16You used the word
39:17police state, which I
39:18want to take to you,
39:19Prakash, saying you
39:20are the one who
39:20pushed for police
39:21reform.
39:21What are we seeing?
39:22This is a police
39:23state.
39:23Is this evidence of
39:25a police state where
39:27someone like Shadan
39:27Farasad is there on
39:29the street, is picked
39:30up in the manner
39:31that he is?
39:32Look at this young
39:32girl being picked up
39:33in the manner.
39:34None of them, none
39:35of them were armed
39:37in any manner.
39:38None of them were
39:39causing public
39:40disorder and yet they
39:41are picked up in
39:42this manner.
39:43What is the message,
39:44sir?
39:44What is the message?
39:51Look, Radheep, the
39:52police were carrying
39:53out the orders given
39:54to them and these
39:56people, they have the
39:58right to dissent, they
39:59have the right to
40:00assemble, but the
40:01right to dissent has
40:03also to be expressed
40:04in a manner which is
40:07subject to public
40:08order, decency and
40:09morality.
40:10Then the right to
40:11assemble peacefully is
40:12there, but the
40:13crowd has not been
40:14peaceful.
40:15I do not know how
40:16Mr. Prakash Singh, I
40:21have high respect for
40:22you, but please tell
40:23me on all these words
40:25you have used, where
40:26does Shadan Farasad sit?
40:28Where do the
40:29journalists who were
40:29covering the story and
40:31had their ID badges
40:32fit?
40:32Are they violating
40:33public order?
40:34Are they behaving in
40:36an indecent manner?
40:38What kind of, sir,
40:39with due regard, sir,
40:40you cannot defend the
40:41men in Khaki when
40:42they do this.
40:42How can you defend
40:44them, sir?
40:44There is something that
40:45has gone seriously
40:46wrong and these
40:47instructions are
40:48coming.
40:48Look, not, no, no
40:50constable will do this
40:51unless they are given
40:51these kind of
40:52instructions.
40:56Look, when you are
40:57dealing with a huge
40:58crowd, you do not
40:59know who is an
41:00advocate and who is
41:01a pressman or who
41:02is a student or who
41:03is a gunda or who
41:04is a ruffian.
41:04You do not know.
41:05There is a huge crowd
41:06and you are handling
41:07that crowd.
41:08And in that crowd,
41:09if there is a, if, if,
41:11if Mr. Sadan or
41:12anybody is there, he
41:13will get the treatment
41:14he deserves.
41:15Now, what do you
41:16mean, sir?
41:16Sir, I am sorry.
41:17What do you, he gets
41:18the treatment he
41:19deserves for what?
41:20No, no, no, sir.
41:21Let me also say.
41:21Sir, no, no, no, sir.
41:22What is the treatment
41:23he deserves?
41:24For standing on the
41:25road?
41:26This is the treatment
41:27I get?
41:27Look, there, look,
41:29there, look,
41:30there are, look,
41:30there are prohibitry,
41:31look, there are
41:32prohibitry orders.
41:33You are not supposed
41:36to be there.
41:37You are violating a,
41:39a, an, an order
41:40of the Delhi
41:41government.
41:42And once you
41:43violate that order,
41:43you have committed
41:44breach of law.
41:46And don't you see
41:47that I have not seen
41:48police using force.
41:50I have not seen police
41:51using brutal force
41:52anywhere.
41:53One minute,
41:54Shadan, one minute.
41:55Yeah.
41:56One minute, Shadan.
41:57You are saying you
41:58were not in an area
41:59where there were
41:59prohibitry orders in place.
42:00Yes, absolutely.
42:01There was no 163 there.
42:03Absolutely.
42:05Okay.
42:05I have heard you.
42:06Mr. Singh, just a minute.
42:07I want to go to
42:08Justice Banerjee.
42:09Justice Banerjee,
42:10you know, Prakash Singh
42:11is saying the police
42:12will pick up people
42:14during a protest like this.
42:15But the fact is,
42:16I mean, if ordinary
42:17citizens of this country
42:19are going to be treated
42:20in this manner,
42:20something is going
42:21seriously wrong, sir.
42:23Something is going
42:24very, very seriously
42:25wrong in the way
42:27we are policing
42:27our society.
42:29And all of this
42:30was done,
42:30apparently, as the court
42:31seems to suggest,
42:32in contempt.
42:33The right to protest,
42:34sir, is a fundamental
42:35right.
42:36These were not violent.
42:37I can understand
42:38if someone turned
42:38violent,
42:39but otherwise
42:40to drag a senior
42:41lawyer of the court
42:42like this
42:43and other journalists
42:44with their ID cards.
42:45Journalists are not
42:46above the law,
42:46but they cannot be
42:47treated like this either.
42:51It's the common man,
42:52the common man.
42:53Forget the journalist,
42:54forget the lawyer.
42:55It's the common man.
42:56He has a right
42:57to freedom
42:58of speech and expression.
43:00He has a right
43:00to assemble peaceably.
43:02Nothing from the
43:03large footage
43:05that I've seen
43:05and I've been following
43:06appears to be
43:10lawlessness
43:11or not
43:12peaceable.
43:13In fact,
43:14on the contrary,
43:15we've seen
43:15some vigilantes,
43:17gundas
43:18with red
43:20tilaks
43:21wielding
43:22lathees
43:22and trying to
43:23beat up
43:24the peaceful
43:25protesters.
43:26So four of them
43:27have been arrested.
43:28Let me be fair
43:29to the police.
43:29Four of them
43:30have been arrested
43:30after the videos
43:31went viral.
43:32Mr. Sardisai,
43:34we are not
43:35in fascist Italy.
43:36We are not
43:37in Nazi Germany.
43:38We are not
43:39in Stalinist
43:40Soviet Union
43:41nor in
43:42repressive China.
43:43We are in India
43:45where the Indian
43:46constitution
43:46gives
43:48complete freedom
43:49to the common man.
43:50In 1951,
43:52the Indian
43:53Supreme Court
43:54said
43:54that we are,
43:56we have a
43:57free way of life
43:58and the
43:59constitution
44:00is for the
44:01common man
44:01and that's
44:03being turned
44:03on its head
44:04by an institution
44:06which is a
44:06watchdog
44:07and by
44:09what appears
44:10to be a
44:11police state
44:11and sought
44:12to be justified
44:13by very
44:15devious
44:15logic.
44:18So,
44:19the police
44:20exists as much
44:22for the
44:22common man.
44:23The police
44:24exists for the
44:24common man.
44:25So,
44:26Justice Banerjee,
44:27where is the line
44:27to be drawn
44:28between freedoms
44:29and duties,
44:30between your
44:31reasonable restrictions
44:32that you have
44:32under Article 19?
44:34You,
44:36it can be on
44:37grounds of
44:37morality,
44:39you know,
44:39public danger
44:40and things like
44:40that but
44:41the restrictions
44:42also have to be
44:43reasonable.
44:44You can't
44:45impose restrictions
44:45because you have
44:46the authority
44:47to impose
44:47restrictions
44:49and I am
44:49sorry that,
44:50you know,
44:50even the
44:51Supreme Court
44:51order which
44:52was passed
44:53on a Sunday
44:54by making a
44:54big show-off
44:55sitting on a
44:56Sunday
44:56makes everything
44:58subject to
44:58law and
44:59order,
44:59subject to
45:00law and
45:00order.
45:02And who
45:02decides on
45:03what is
45:03law and
45:03order?
45:04These people,
45:05they decide
45:05by their
45:06own
45:06dictate.
45:07They say
45:08that at a
45:10three-day
45:10notice they
45:11could not
45:11allow permission
45:12for that
45:13meeting at
45:14Jantar Mantar.
45:15Yet,
45:1540,000 troops
45:16have been
45:17mobilized,
45:18six special
45:19trains brought
45:19to Delhi
45:21with forces
45:22from as
45:22far away as
45:23Jharkhand and
45:24Bengal.
45:25So are
45:26you saying
45:26it was
45:27primary?
45:28Are you
45:28saying it
45:29was
45:29prima facie
45:30a violation
45:30of Shadan
45:32Farasat or
45:33any peaceful
45:34citizens'
45:35right to
45:36protest?
45:36Prima facie?
45:38Absolutely.
45:39Absolutely and
45:40unashamedly so.
45:43And what's
45:44the punishment
45:46then?
45:47Because,
45:47you know,
45:48clearly the
45:49constables are
45:50taking instructions
45:51from the top
45:52police and
45:52political
45:53leadership.
45:53Who will
45:54be held
45:54accountable
45:55then?
45:56Rajdeep,
45:57today in
45:57this country
45:58there is
45:59a fear
46:00psychosis
46:01and a
46:02psychophancy
46:02which is
46:03being pushed
46:04together.
46:05You toe
46:06my line,
46:06you will be
46:07rewarded.
46:08Or else,
46:09God help
46:10you.
46:12And that
46:13is what
46:14people are
46:14falling for.
46:15Even look
46:16at how the
46:17courts react.
46:18These people
46:19are held
46:20without any
46:21ground,
46:22they are
46:22arrested,
46:23they are
46:23taken to
46:23far away
46:24places,
46:24they are
46:25not even
46:25allowed the
46:26benefit of
46:27a lawyer.
46:28They apply
46:29for bail
46:30and the
46:31magistrate
46:32hears it
46:33and says
46:33I am
46:34busy in
46:34an
46:34administrative
46:34meeting.
46:36People are
46:37afraid,
46:38courts are
46:38afraid.
46:41You are
46:42making a
46:42very serious
46:43point there.
46:43Prakash Singh,
46:44you want to
46:44respond.
46:45I mean,
46:46what is your
46:46advice to
46:47your younger
46:47police officers?
46:49Should they
46:49not,
46:50do they not
46:51need to
46:51introspect sir?
46:52These optics
46:53are terrible,
46:54the reality
46:54is terrible.
46:56Look,
46:58look,
46:59Raddeep,
47:00I think the
47:00overall picture
47:01is being
47:02blurred and
47:03painted in a
47:04very different
47:04way by taking
47:06solitary example
47:07of Mr. X
47:08for Mr. Y.
47:08The overall
47:09picture is
47:10that A,
47:11the
47:12prohibitive
47:12orders were
47:13violated,
47:14B,
47:14that the
47:15assembly was
47:16not peaceful.
47:17It was very
47:18disruptive and
47:19the freedom of
47:19speech was
47:20totally abused
47:22and the kind
47:24of language
47:24which has been
47:25used for
47:26people,
47:27that kind of
47:27language you
47:28can't think of
47:29using in other
47:29countries.
47:31And people
47:31talking of
47:32freedom being
47:33violated, I
47:34think the kind
47:34of freedom
47:35that you have
47:35in this
47:36country, it
47:37is being
47:37abused.
47:38I think there
47:38are some red
47:39lines need to
47:39be drawn,
47:40some limits of
47:41decency must be
47:43prescribed and
47:44those must be
47:45adhered to.
47:46But individual
47:47cases should not
47:48be used to
47:49blur the
47:50overall picture.
47:50I have seen
47:51pictures of
47:52lady constables
47:53being badly
47:56handled,
47:57being almost
47:58molested,
47:59being pushed
48:00around.
48:01I have seen a
48:01constable being
48:02kicked, yes,
48:03kicked on his
48:03back.
48:04So arrest,
48:05sir, you've
48:06got to arrest
48:07those who
48:07are treated
48:09like that.
48:09So I, sir,
48:10we have to
48:11make a
48:11distinction
48:12between those
48:13who are
48:13sought to.
48:13They will be
48:14arrested and
48:14I think Delhi
48:15will take care
48:16of them.
48:16Delhi will take
48:17care of them.
48:17And let me
48:18also tell you,
48:19there is also
48:20a video that
48:23Sir, yes, go
48:24ahead.
48:25There are also
48:26videos showing
48:26that the women
48:27are tearing
48:29their clothes
48:30just to
48:34fabricate
48:34a case against
48:35a policeman
48:35that they have
48:36torn their
48:37clothes.
48:37I mean,
48:38this kind of
48:38drama, all
48:39this is happening
48:40and Radheep,
48:41let me tell you,
48:42no water cannon
48:43has been used,
48:44no dirty charge
48:45has been there
48:45and no arrests
48:47also of people
48:48who in a different
48:49regime would probably
48:50have been dealt
48:51with very differently.
48:53Okay, I want to
48:53give Shadan a final
48:54word because you
48:55were directly affected.
48:56A quick final word
48:57from you, Shadan.
48:59Yeah, unfortunately,
49:00Mr. Prakash Singh
49:01has no idea
49:01what's happening
49:02on the ground.
49:02That's all I can
49:03say because I
49:03think he's living
49:04in a bit of a
49:05bubble.
49:06Firstly, I think
49:07the discomfort
49:09or inconvenience
49:10which is being
49:11caused is being
49:12caused by the
49:13Delhi police
49:13under instructions
49:14from the
49:15political class
49:15to finish off
49:16any kind of
49:17movements in
49:17the city.
49:18It's not the
49:19protesters.
49:19If you let
49:20the protesters
49:20come to a
49:21certain spate,
49:22protest and
49:23Jantar Mantar
49:24or any other
49:25designated spot
49:26in central,
49:26they would have
49:27come, they
49:27would have
49:27assembled,
49:27they would
49:28have raised
49:28their ground,
49:29they would
49:29have made
49:29their slogans
49:30against Gyanesh
49:30Kumar and
49:31they would have
49:32stayed under
49:32whatever the
49:32government would
49:33have had to
49:33do.
49:34There was no
49:34question of
49:35any inconvenience.
49:36Even when the
49:36Jantar Mantar
49:3720th July protest
49:38happened, it
49:38went off all
49:39right and there
49:40was no inconvenience
49:41being happened.
49:41It's because you
49:42want to shut
49:43down preemptively
49:44the city to
49:45prevent the
49:45protest that you
49:47are causing the
49:47inconvenience as
49:48administration.
49:49That's point
49:49number one.
49:50Point number
49:51two, this
49:53unusual use of
49:54force.
49:55There is no
49:55comparison.
49:56These are youngsters.
49:57Leave alone
49:57me.
49:57I am not
49:57claiming any
49:58special right as
49:59a senior advocate
49:59or as a
50:00council or as
50:01an advocate.
50:01We are all
50:02citizens first.
50:02That's what.
50:03My right to
50:04protest under the
50:04constitution is
50:05the same as
50:06every citizen.
50:06Not more,
50:07not less.
50:07So, I am not
50:08claiming any special
50:09privilege.
50:10My point is that
50:11no citizen should
50:12be brutalized like
50:13so many of them.
50:14I was still pulled
50:15by the shirt and
50:16thrown but the
50:16people have been
50:16beaten up.
50:17I was at least
50:18not beaten up.
50:18Are you very
50:19clear, Shahdan,
50:20that if there is a
50:21citizen who attacks
50:22a police officer,
50:24he or she will face
50:24consequences?
50:25No, no, no, no.
50:27One minute.
50:27The videos which
50:28show if a police
50:29officer is punched,
50:30for example.
50:31Yes, of course,
50:32the police officer
50:32he should, then you
50:35have attacked their
50:36provisions in the
50:37IPC where then you
50:37have used police
50:38against the police
50:39officer.
50:41He should be
50:41arrested.
50:42Then if that's the
50:43case, if somebody
50:44has punched a police
50:44officer, if somebody
50:46has punched a police
50:47officer, even in an
50:48altercation and a
50:50police officer on
50:51duty, you would
50:52arrest that person.
50:52Their provisions is
50:53IPC.
50:53But that's not the
50:55case.
50:55If there is one
50:55one-off case of
50:56some protester being
50:57unruly and punching
50:58a police officer, of
50:59course, you take
50:59action against him.
51:00There's no two
51:00ways about it.
51:02Correct?
51:02There's no two
51:03ways about it.
51:04That's not the
51:04point.
51:06That does not justify
51:08what happened to
51:09you, what happened
51:09to journalists, what
51:10happened to hundreds
51:11of innocent citizens.
51:15It's about criminalizing
51:17dissent.
51:18It's about treating
51:19any form of dissent.
51:20You're criminalizing
51:21it.
51:22And the police need
51:23to recognize that.
51:24I just want to say
51:24one thing.
51:25I want to say one
51:26thing.
51:26I don't mean it
51:26personally, but there's
51:27no point in filing
51:28multiple petitions in
51:29Supreme Court seeking
51:30police reforms if you
51:32are going to justify
51:33Gundagardy of the
51:33police on the streets.
51:36Yeah, okay.
51:37The police cannot turn
51:38into resort to
51:40Gundagardy.
51:41Unacceptable.
51:42Questions will be
51:43raised and I will
51:44continue to raise
51:45them.
51:45Okay, now if the
51:46Congress has put the
51:47BJP in the dock in a
51:48way over the vote
51:49chori allegations, the
51:51BJP is trying to now
51:52put the Congress on the
51:54dock over the slam
51:56patriarchy claims that
51:58the Congress party made
52:00because a Congress
52:00MP from Manipur,
52:02Bimal Aikojam, after he
52:04was sacked as a JNU
52:05professor over allegations
52:07of sexual harassment, the
52:08BJP has taken to the
52:09streets, staging a
52:11protest against the
52:12Congress MP, burning
52:13effigies of him and
52:14demanding action against
52:16Bimal from the
52:17Congress.
52:17The Congress is calling
52:18the BJP protests a
52:19diversionary tactic to
52:21deflect from the vote
52:23chori charges and the
52:25CC, Gyanesh Kumar.
52:26Take a look.
52:31Showdown over Congress
52:32MP, Bimal Aikojam.
52:40The parliamentarian was
52:42recently sacked as JNU
52:43professor over allegations
52:45of sexual harassment.
52:53The BJP came down heavily
52:55on Rahul Gandhi over the
52:56charges against Aikojam and
52:59held a protest outside the
53:00grand old party's
53:02headquarters on Monday.
53:07Women MPs of BJP led
53:09the charge.
53:11The protesters burned
53:13effigies of Rahul Gandhi
53:15and Aikojam.
53:16Rahul Gandhi
53:17Ji,
53:17kya smashed the
53:18patriarchy
53:19a political rhetoric
53:22or kya
53:24monom
53:24hamesha
53:25Sanskrit
53:25mne
53:26monom
53:26swikriti
53:27lakshanam
53:27kya
53:28aaj
53:28aap
53:29mon
53:29dharan
53:30kar kar
53:30is
53:31pure
53:32sexual
53:32conduct
53:33misconduct
53:34karahe
53:34Bimal Aikojam
53:35kya
53:36unke
53:36is
53:36con
53:36misconduct
53:37ko
53:37condone
53:38karth
53:41The party's
53:43Mahila
53:43morcha
53:43protested in
53:44Bengaluru
53:45over the
53:45same issue.
53:48The congress
53:49called the
53:50protest a
53:50diversionary
53:51tactic
53:52to deflect
53:53attention
53:53from the
53:54opposition
53:54protest
53:55against
53:55CEC
53:56gyanish
53:56kumar
53:57This is
53:58their
53:58classic
53:59diversionary
54:00tactics
54:01whatever action
54:02has to be
54:03taken
54:03there has
54:03been taken
54:04what action
54:05are you
54:05taking
54:05answer that
54:06why is it
54:07that they
54:08don't answer
54:08that
54:09they want
54:09to divert
54:10you
54:10some
54:11worker
54:11somewhere
54:11is more
54:12important
54:12than
54:13gyanish
54:13kumar
54:13case
54:14Meanwhile
54:15the Delhi
54:16police filed
54:16an FIR
54:17against
54:17Okoyjam
54:19The MP
54:20is accused
54:21of making
54:21sexual advances
54:22towards students
54:23demanding
54:24sexual
54:25favors
54:25showing
54:26porn
54:27against
54:27students
54:27will
54:28and making
54:29sexually
54:29offensive
54:30remarks
54:32The FIR
54:33against
54:34Okoyjam
54:34has come
54:35as an
54:36embarrassment
54:36for the
54:37congress
54:37when its
54:38own leader
54:38Rahul
54:39Gandhi
54:39has been
54:40running a
54:40campaign
54:41to smash
54:42the patriarchy
54:43The congress
54:44which has not
54:45acted against
54:46its MP
54:46is now being
54:47accused
54:48of double
54:48standards
54:51With
54:52Maria
54:52Shaquille
54:53Piyush
54:53Mishra
54:54and Nagarjun
54:55Dwarkanath
54:55Bureau
54:56Report
54:56India
54:56Today
55:02That's all
55:03that we could
55:03pack in
55:04today
55:04Thanks very
55:05much for
55:05watching
55:06Stay well
55:06Stay safe
55:07Good night
55:07Shubratri
55:08Jaihin
55:09Namaskar
55:09Sleep
55:10Well
55:10I'll see you
55:10I'll see you
55:10I'll see you