00:00Guardians lost yesterday, series over.
00:04Lyman and I got in a huge...
00:08That's what sucks about it.
00:10That is where I'm comfortable to lose my mind against you
00:14and say things that I don't even mean.
00:16Say things that are mean-spirited.
00:18I think I told you to...
00:20I think I told you to kiss my ass during the argument.
00:23I'm sorry.
00:24It was really nasty.
00:26It got really nasty.
00:27And that's what pro sports teams do.
00:30That's what a sport like baseball does.
00:32That's what a sport like baseball where you haven't won a World Series in 78 years does.
00:36Like today, I'm saying, well, was it still a successful season?
00:41I think that's a conversation for tomorrow.
00:43I think today is an emotional day.
00:45I really do.
00:46I think today is like, hey, you got hate in your heart.
00:49You're mad.
00:50Let it out.
00:51Go ahead.
00:52Because there are so many things that play into it.
00:57And I wanted to disagree with you.
00:59And I'm like, well, I want to hear him out on it.
01:01Because you made me think of the Milli Vanilli song, Blaming on the Rain.
01:03You were upset about Friday.
01:07And are you upset that they tried to play the game?
01:10No, everything.
01:11Are you just blaming the weather?
01:12It was unfortunate because you're always wondering about, you know, momentum
01:16or what you're going to start having to think about the rest of a series
01:20and having it set to win it.
01:23You know, there was a potential, if you weren't able to close it out right away
01:26when you had the 2-1 advantage, that you're going to have to play four straight days.
01:29And what does that do to the rest of your bullpen?
01:31Especially when, you know, you didn't know Parker Messick was just flat out
01:35not going to have it.
01:36And so, that decimated everything.
01:39Not just the starting look at things, but also how you were going to handle the bullpen
01:43the rest of the way.
01:44And it's just a, this was not anybody's fault.
01:48Except the heavens opening up the entire day.
01:52Like, would things have been different had they have been able to go out and play that day?
01:58It's just something we'll never know.
01:59And yeah, it's loser's lament, all that stuff.
02:01You're always wondering what would have happened.
02:03And, you know, just like I wondered in Game 2, if Jose Ramirez is just able to handle
02:07a ball that would be routine for him almost his entire baseball life,
02:13what happens in that series if that's the case?
02:15But now, who knows, what happens if the Palacios check swing yesterday?
02:19I know that's just a tiny thing in a game they ended up getting essentially destroyed.
02:23It's not, it's not, it's really not a tiny thing.
02:25But that's two runs.
02:26It is two runs in that chain.
02:28Who knows, like, there is a cause and effect for everything.
02:31Especially baseball.
02:32More than anything in the world.
02:33Like, Junior Camonero hitting a two-run home run makes you feel better about the Richie,
02:36the Richie Palacios check swing.
02:38Because now in your head, you're like, well, what were you going to do anyway?
02:41But there's a cause and effect for everything in a baseball game.
02:43There is a butterfly effect.
02:44And a pressure mounting throughout the game.
02:46So if, rightfully so, that's called a strike, like, that changes the complexion of how things work out.
02:53Like, you still could have lost the game, certainly, but you could have won the game.
02:55You could have helped yourself win the game.
02:57Am I sitting here ripping and bitching and moaning about Tim Heron and Matt Festa today?
03:01Probably not.
03:02Am I wondering where's Terry to buy me today?
03:05Maybe not.
03:05Am I having a great big pep rally getting ready for Gavin Williams tonight?
03:11Which, again, is another thing where you wanted to wait on Gavin Williams.
03:14See, because this is one of the things that I brought up.
03:16He had 70 pitches with Gavin Williams.
03:18And this is where I'm a little bit worried.
03:20Because I want to know a little bit more information.
03:2270 pitches the other day with Gavin Williams.
03:25And I go, this could end up being brilliant.
03:27He's got plenty of juice left.
03:29You could bring him in for an inning.
03:31Then you could pitch him in game seven.
03:33But the velocity thing is there.
03:34And I'm going, what's going on here?
03:36Because the velocity thing is going down.
03:39This is a guy who's had a history of injuries.
03:42He has.
03:42So, it just makes you start to worry about things.
03:46Because he is your ace.
03:47Go ahead, Owen.
03:48Well, I agree.
03:50Especially when they talked to him during the White Sox series.
03:53After, you know, I thought he was pulled early in that game.
03:56Game two of the White Sox series.
03:58He was at 98 pitches.
04:00But he had 11 strikeouts already.
04:02That was the one he went five and a third.
04:03Yeah.
04:04And he was, he said after that game, I'll be ready anytime, anywhere, wherever they need me.
04:09I can pitch every day.
04:11He didn't, it didn't matter to him.
04:13He was ready to go.
04:14And then he came in in game four through, he closed out game four.
04:18And then he started game five.
04:19Then he came back.
04:20He started game three, which was at home.
04:23That was the game that they pulled him after 70.
04:26And you heard the stuff about the velo.
04:29And then it was kind of mum on being ready to go at any point.
04:34And there is a slight concern.
04:36Now, fortunately, he's probably going to have some extra time off here coming up to get right whatever is right.
04:43If there's some sort of a problem, then I'll take it as a blessing.
04:48Because you got that 50 game.
04:49Well, there's plenty of time to chew fat on lockouts.
04:54That is something I'm concerned about.
04:56Because it's like, okay, Gavin is not available game six.
04:59Well, I thought after pulling him after 70 pitches, it was like, okay, he's going to be available.
05:03Then to maybe pitch an inning and then get things started for you in case of emergency or not even
05:10case of emergency.
05:11He could be brought in in game six and then could start for you in game seven if you absolutely
05:16needed him to.
05:18And that went away.
05:20And so it's like Stephen Vogt's going to take a lot of hell today because of the Festa stuff and
05:25because of the Heron stuff.
05:27Because of no Bybee.
05:30Because of a lot of things.
05:31The manager of the baseball team.
05:33But I want to find out more about Gavin Williams.
05:36Because that, some things just didn't seem to make sense.
05:41And I'm not saying this knowing anything, texted anything, nothing.
05:44I am purely speculating.
05:47The velocity went down.
05:48It was a conversation.
05:49So now I wonder about Gavin Williams' health.
05:52Or is it just like, hey, you pitch a lot of innings.
05:55A lot's expected of you.
05:57We're in a position maybe you didn't think we're going to be.
05:59You're still young.
06:00Yeah, young arms pitching way past their threshold.
06:03Maybe it was that way.
06:04And don't forget, these just aren't your run-of-the-mill garden variety July starts.
06:12These are so different.
06:14You know, and I've heard about it several times.
06:16And I know that we go, well, they used to throw so many more innings.
06:19They used to do, well, a lot of guys tell you back in the day, like, yeah, these guys
06:23would work up to throwing 90-something miles an hour.
06:26They weren't just throwing 100 miles an hour out of the blocks from the very first pitch
06:31through five innings.
06:32Like, guys could go longer because, yeah, you're throwing 87.
06:36You're throwing 86.
06:37You're throwing a little bit more of the off-speed stuff.
06:40You're painting the corners a little bit more.
06:42Now it's 99 up in the zone.
06:45Try to beat it.
06:4699 again.
06:47Low in the zone.
06:48Try to beat it.
06:48Like, it's just.
06:49It really is a different game.
06:49Yes.
06:50And that's why they're not allowing these guys to see a lineup three times.
06:53So when you have more guys.
06:54Even in the playoffs.
06:55Yeah, when you have more guys throwing gas, you're going to take a little bit on the back
06:59end off.
06:59So, you know, you're not going seven, eight innings, complete games, things like that.
07:03So the game has changed dramatically.
07:06So I'm not going to sit there and call them a bunch of sissies because they're not pitching
07:09seven, eight innings on the regular because I know the game has changed.
07:14But because of that, and I see the velocity dropping, it concerns me about Gavin Williams.
07:19And Steven Vogt's a guy who, he's a manager, he's done it before, and he should do it, has
07:23come out and bared the brunt of criticism to protect his players.
07:28But I know we're going to go to the phones.
07:29Which is what a head coach or a manager is supposed to do.
07:32I know.
07:32We're spending this time.
07:34This is what we had down on the sheet.
07:36We were going to discuss this.
07:37It is kind of funny that we're talking so much about the pitching decisions when it
07:42was pretty clear.
07:43I know the one caller totally disagree.
07:45I think it was pretty evident that your arms were gassed.
07:48And we're going through all that.
07:49How could he have preserved the arms?
07:51Whatever.
07:52That's all the stuff that we're going to look and the organization is going to obsess
07:55over.
07:55So if they're in this predicament again, that they don't get to the same situation in the
08:01end, would they score 11 runs in the last five games?
08:03Do you need your pitchers to be perfect?
08:05I think the easy thing is to say, well, just, you know, they didn't buy bats.
08:08You got to buy bats.
08:09And yes, I think we have to also live in the reality of, I hate that we don't spend
08:14money, but we don't spend money.
08:17It seems to be that.
08:18Yeah, but you lost to a team that doesn't spend money.
08:20Yes.
08:20And you lost to a team that doesn't spend money.
08:22I agree with you there.
08:23I'm talking more to the people that are mad at the way the organization spends money.
08:29Well, they haven't done that in 20 years.
08:32And they still continue to compete at a level that they do.
08:35Well, I, it's hard to just accept that's the way it is, but that's kind of the way it
08:40is until, you know, hopefully when Blitzer takes over and, you know, there's a reason
08:45like, you know, that owner's box and had all those great people, you know, Andy was in that
08:51box for game five Blitzer's whole family was.
08:54I mean, there was a lot of Blitzer people in those owner's boxes.
08:58It seems that they, that he's around more and, and more ready to be a contributing factor
09:06in the ownership.
09:08Well, in which all three of us have agreed, all three of us have agreed that when he takes
09:12over full control, he'll make a splash.
09:14Now I think he'll run it like a business, but we do like you take over, you make a splash.
09:19Have you agreed with that too?
09:20Okay.
09:21What better time to make a splash right now?
09:25Don't worry about the non Cleveland factor at all of just not being a Cleveland or, you
09:30know, Dolans were Cleveland people and, but that's, that's a bridge we'll burn when we
09:36get there.
09:37Right.
09:37Let me ask you this though.
09:38How many, how many, let's just say when we're talking players, because obviously had
09:44they have gone on a free agency spending blitz, all right, put it in, uh, in, in quotations
09:51and we all know that, that that's never happening, but then does that block the water?
09:57Does that block Bazzana?
09:59Probably.
09:59And so how many realistically, if you don't know if it blocks the water and Bazzana, it
10:03doesn't matter.
10:04Like you're going to, you're, you're going to want to fight this.
10:06You can, you're, we're all three going to want to fight this, but the world series,
10:09you know, this is shaping up to be the Falcons Superbowl run years ago with former Browns
10:14players.
10:15Yeah.
10:16The Patriots Falcon Superbowl.
10:17Well, when you've got the, the, you know, the two best players on offense for the Rays
10:23and then the one guy for the Brewers that has stepped up for them most in Jake Bowers
10:30and they all came.
10:31I mean, Richie Palacios was with this organization too.
10:35It's that came up last night too.
10:37Yeah.
10:38It's not great.
10:41So by and large, the front office is why you're here and why you have a reason to
10:46complain, but you know, you're going to hear the criticism because you have a world
10:51series that is going to feature junior Camonero, Yandy Diaz, and also it, that nobody was saying
11:01a damn word.
11:02And this is what's going to upset you.
11:03Jake Bowers.
11:04Yeah.
11:05Well, no, people have talked about Yandy.
11:07People have talked about junior Camonero.
11:09Nobody has said anything on this station anywhere about Jake Bowers.
11:14Jake Bowers hits a home run game one.
11:16You're going to hear about Jake Bowers.
11:18All right.
11:19Just get ready for it.
11:20And that was because Browns, that was mismanagement.
11:24That was a mess that we've gone over a million times.
11:27So I don't need to bring that body out of the grave.
11:28This is a good organization.
11:29This is a good organization.
11:30But you guys, I'm telling you.
11:32Who did the Rays trade for Yandy Diaz?
11:36It was Jake Bowers.
11:37Yes.
11:37It's not like.
11:38Yes.
11:38I mean, it was one.
11:39It was one or the other.
11:41We were going to have one or the other.
11:42Yeah.
11:42And they had Bowers up a long time with the big league club.
11:46And he was not the guy.
11:47But Bob and Ashtabula, who's going to call in on Monday, he don't understand that.
11:51Because it's the first time that he.
11:53Exactly.
11:54And so while we're going to be upset, I'm just letting you know, you're going to read a lot
11:57of that and it's going to be misguided, but you're going to read a lot of that.
12:00Now, the junior Cam and Arrow thing.
12:02I mean, you traded him for a pitcher that really hasn't amounted to anything.
12:05You could say you gave up on him too quickly.
12:07This is an organization that seems to, I mean, good God, how many chances did Gabby Arias
12:11get to the point where Owen was, Owen was in a dark place with Gabby Arias for a while.
12:17Now it's much brighter that he's not with the team.
12:19That was an ugly situation.
12:20And I wonder if part of that reason is like, because people felt they might've given up
12:24on, or not give, not giving up on junior Cam and Arrow, but it's like, we need this at
12:29this time.
12:29We had to let go of that.
12:31And junior Cam and Arrow ended up being a great player, but he's only making $800,000.
12:35If David Blitzer wants to come in and make a splash, you want to bring him back to the
12:38fold.
12:38You go right on ahead, sir.
12:39How crazy would that be?
12:40Our fans going to be in that same mold with, uh, with Rokio following, you know, that about
12:45last night.
12:46And a lot of the at-bats that we saw it during this playoff run.
12:50I wonder if the playoff Rokio thing was a little bit like, I thought I saw him pressing
12:55the entire postseason.
12:58And it just, he was good in the regular season and the heating up thing.
13:04And I, I think he's so competitive.
13:06I think he wants to win obviously.
13:08And I, I, I just think he was trying too hard.
13:10I just, some of the hell hacks that he was taking and things like that just didn't seem
13:13to be him.
13:14And I remember the one time I think it was the white socks where he was the final, it was
13:18one of the final outs and like the bat slamming and stuff like that.
13:21I'm like, that's not, that's not you.
13:23I have not seen that out of him.
13:25Like he's more of a jovial guy.
13:27And I'm thinking, man, you're getting tight.
13:29You're pressing.
13:29Like you're not, I, I don't expect Brian.
13:32That's what made Rokio fun is that he was performing.
13:34And I don't expect Rokio to go up there and be a guy who bops.
13:40I don't expect that.
13:41Like, get it, give me a single.
13:42You're at the bottom of the order.
13:43You're comfortable in that spot.
13:45And man, that was a golden opportunity.
13:46They had a shot and he thought he was, if he would have just gotten one hit, it could
13:52have changed everything in that game and taken the wind out of that stadium, which was
13:56a totally different stadium experience than it had been earlier in the series.
13:59And it was almost the same, like Angel Martinez hits home runs, but it was almost the same
14:03principle with him.
14:04Like, what are you doing?
14:04What?
14:05Whoa.
14:06I mean, you're cooling everybody off in the first three rows.
14:08Take a, take a pitch.
14:10It's like, no, he had to swing at everything.
14:12Everything.
14:13All right.
14:14Coming up at eight o'clock, Zach Jackson going to join us on the show.
14:16I want to get to some of you guys as well throughout the next hour here.
14:19Cause obviously we're licking our wounds after the loss yesterday, coming up in five
14:22minutes, Andrew Barry, he outlasted another one.
14:27Ken Carmen, Anthony Lima about last night and five on the.
