00:00Kenny.
00:01All right, how are we feeling about this decision?
00:04Not great.
00:04Not feeling good about anything.
00:05Tone's not feeling great.
00:062-1-6-4-7-4-0-92.
00:08Are you feeling great?
00:09Are you feeling bad?
00:11You good or bad?
00:12One of the two.
00:14Can't be somewhere in the middle.
00:16You feeling good?
00:17You feeling bad?
00:18Well, guess where I am.
00:19No, can't be in the middle.
00:20You got to pick a side.
00:21You got to pick a feeling.
00:22You got to pick a side.
00:24Don't feel good.
00:25Unless Daniel Espino is batting and...
00:28It's more than three hits.
00:30I go with this.
00:31I go with this.
00:32I think about what I've said over these last 24 or 48 hours, right?
00:39Have I defended Steven Vogt?
00:41Yes.
00:43If you go and you start Tanner Bybee,
00:48it's like, all right, Tanner Bybee went out there
00:50and maybe he just fell apart and that's it.
00:54But it's like, okay, you start Tanner Bybee.
00:56If you start Daniel Espino,
00:59and then you put in Joey Cantillo
01:02and it's 5-0,
01:04you are going to hear about this all winter long.
01:07And then you're going to hear about it next postseason
01:10because I assume you'll get to the postseason again.
01:12You'll hear about this.
01:14Like, if you just went...
01:15Like, honestly, I could sit there
01:17and it's a bold move
01:18and that's why you hire managers to make bold moves.
01:22Unless you're certain teams in Major League Baseball,
01:25then they just have their front office guys do it
01:27and apparently just a glorified button pusher
01:29and a figurehead for the organization as a manager
01:33and somebody that is hired to be let go.
01:35But go with me on this, Anthony.
01:38If you just go with Bybee,
01:40it's a safe, hey, common sense,
01:44third guy starting,
01:46that's the way it goes.
01:48Matt Derry,
01:49I almost said both the Derry Bears,
01:50I know they talked about it on their podcast.
01:52Matt Derry was on with us yesterday.
01:54He said that.
01:55I think a lot of people were just like,
01:56all right, we'll see what Tanner Bybee does.
01:58Daniel Espino starts
02:00and then you're going to go to Cantillo
02:02and it's just like, man,
02:04it better work because there is no tomorrow
02:06if it doesn't.
02:07And then it's a very, very, very long offseason
02:10of having to hear about that if it doesn't.
02:14And arguments that we've made for Steven Vogt
02:18to a large part of the audience
02:22goes out the window.
02:24That's my stance.
02:25Go ahead.
02:26Yeah, it is so tough
02:28because on one hand,
02:30I look at all the numbers that they probably have
02:33and the type of matchups and the data
02:36and this and that
02:38and for whatever reason,
02:40I don't think they're making a stupid,
02:41you know, knee jerk,
02:44like just out of nowhere gut feeling.
02:47I'm just going with it on this.
02:49I think this was organizational.
02:51They sat, obviously,
02:51they probably changed the math on it
02:54that they were down two games to nothing too.
02:56But I can't get out of my head
02:58when we were looking at ticket prices for this game
03:01and when the announcers were talking about
03:04this is the first potential closeout game
03:08for the Chicago White Sox since what year?
03:12What crazy year was it?
03:13It was the first home closeout game
03:17since 1904 was the stat that I heard.
03:19Holy cow.
03:20That's amazing.
03:20And I just keep thinking of the buzzsaw
03:23that they could potentially be walking into in this game.
03:28And then it leads me to think
03:29they just need their normal starter.
03:31Like they just need a normal starter to not...
03:34Well, you're not getting one.
03:35You're getting Daniel Espino.
03:37And who knows?
03:38He might just go out there and be dominant
03:40and we're laughing about this segment.
03:42How could you not?
03:43That's the beauty, as they say, Kenny, of baseball.
03:46It's beauty until you get eliminated in three games
03:48and then you're like, whoa, boy.
03:49You get touched up in the first inning.
03:51So I am nervous about this.
03:53I am really, really nervous.
03:54I was nervous about game two
03:55much more so than you were
03:57and now I'm petrified for game three.
03:59There you go.
04:00The beauty is you just win one game.
04:02Tone is a Frady Cat.
04:03Frady Cat, Frady Cat.
04:04John came in and said, well, you know,
04:05you win this game.
04:06Then this happens, this happens, this happens, this happens.
04:09I'm like, oh, it's all great.
04:10I need to win this game.
04:11Get me to win this game.
04:13That's great.
04:14I'd like to fast forward to how many hours from now
04:16where that would be the case.
04:17But yeah, I am petrified of this game.
04:20100%.
04:20Very, very, very much so you are.
04:22Should I not be?
04:24Well, hey, I tried to talk tough before the game on Monday
04:27and that went straight to hell.
04:29So am I going to sit here and act like I'm talking tough?
04:31They did jump out to a 2-0 lead.
04:34But I mentioned it like it was a tactic, though.
04:37I honestly felt pretty confident going into Monday's game
04:39and then things went straight to hell.
04:41And I tell you what, it's even worse when it's going on
04:43in real time when you're around a bunch of people
04:45and that's what happened for me.
04:46And it was just like, oh, God, now I feel terrible.
04:49And the phone started lighting up and things like that.
04:50Are you feeling bad now?
04:52Yeah, I'm feeling bad now.
04:55Now, like, I guess you could kind of say there is a calm,
04:58but I'd just be talking myself into it.
05:00And I can't sit there and lie to myself.
05:02I know how I feel.
05:02And I feel quite nervous about tonight's ballgame.
05:05And I feel even more nervous about Daniel Espino
05:07starting in an opener's role against Sean Newcomb,
05:12who's also in an opener's role.
05:14And us going, I mean, then going to Joey Cantillo.
05:17Like, there's so much that comes out of this.
05:19One, I mean, you're telling the world
05:21you don't really believe in Tanner Bybee.
05:23And Tanner Bybee has pitched in postseason moments before.
05:26So you tell the world that.
05:28Two, and I know that they'll spin it any way they can.
05:32That's what you're telling the world.
05:33That's the way the people feel.
05:34Ken, do you know what Tanner Bybee's September ERA is?
05:37No, John, go ahead and tell me.
05:397-3-6.
05:40Okay.
05:40Joey Cantillo's ERA since July 29th is 2.74.
05:46You want to go with Joey?
05:48That's fine.
05:49Joey Cantillo ended the season on a 15-inning scoreless streak
05:52where he allowed four hits.
05:53Okay.
05:54In every situation following Daniel Espino.
05:56I hope it works.
05:58And Stephen Kwan had an unbelievable bat
06:01heading into the postseason.
06:02And what has he done?
06:04I hope it works.
06:06The numbers support what John's saying.
06:08And that's what I said.
06:08I knew that the numbers, they have sophisticated data.
06:12John needs to know that that doesn't matter.
06:13That if you don't win, that's what's going to be heard.
06:17Because then, if you don't win, then you have a matzo ball
06:20hanging out there where it's like, well, now I've got to figure out
06:22what to do with Tanner Bybee.
06:25And it was a guy who was an open-day starter.
06:27And now we're telling everybody that we don't believe in him.
06:30And there's a lot there, man.
06:31It's not just one game to stay alive in the postseason.
06:35In so many ways, we can try to boil it down to it
06:37and just leave it there.
06:38It's not.
06:39Because we're talking about futures with so many of these guys.
06:42And so many of these guys are young.
06:43And this plays into it with Tanner Bybee.
06:46So, sorry.
06:48I understand what your numbers say.
06:49And I hope it works out.
06:50I hope the numbers ring true.
06:51I hope Joey Cantillo does a great job
06:53after he comes in for Daniel Espino.
06:55But it's just not that simple.
06:57I don't think that a lot of fans are thinking that way.
06:59That makes you feel better.
07:00That one has a 2ERA and the other one has a 7
07:03over the last month and a half.
07:05But I just don't think that a lot of people are feeling that way.
07:08I think they're going,
07:09Boy, this is a pretty strong move.
07:13I think they feel maybe they feel differently.
07:15I'll go to the phones here in a second.
07:17But I think a lot of people think that this is a pretty strong move.
07:20Maybe even desperate.
07:21And it better work out.
07:23It better work out.
07:25Because I've been pretty defensive over Stephen Vogt.
07:30And if it doesn't go that way,
07:32I think I'm going to be doing a lot of hiding under their desk tomorrow.
07:35Do you think,
07:37and I want to get to this about the manager,
07:38because being defensive of Vogt,
07:41and me and you weren't screaming at each other.
07:44I don't think anybody was screaming at each other on the show.
07:46We were emotional when we let off the show.
07:49But we weren't going in separate tirades and huge monologues.
07:54And we just were very disappointed, obviously, with what happened.
07:59We're trying.
08:00It's tough to be measured in the playoffs.
08:01162 just comes down to tonight, right?
08:04A couple, yeah.
08:04So, obviously, I wanted to see more Gavin Williams.
08:09I thought he was dominant.
08:10And I went over some of the analytical numbers that they use.
08:14That they live in that world.
08:15That I certainly don't.
08:16But the whiff rate.
08:17And, you know, how he was getting guys to chase.
08:20And just how dominant I thought Gavin Williams was.
08:24And then, you know, Vogt makes the change.
08:26Is that something to get irate with the manager over?
08:29Is it something to lose all confidence?
08:32Because I saw it with the fan base.
08:33Well, did you get it the next day?
08:35Did you get it yesterday?
08:36Or did you get it in real time?
08:38Because I saw it more in real time than I did yesterday.
08:40I was not even screaming in real time.
08:42I was just like, why didn't they leave in Gavin Williams?
08:43But I saw other guys.
08:45I mean, Danny Cunningham was losing his mind.
08:47Right?
08:48Hayden Grove was losing his mind.
08:50All these guys that normally are fairly measured.
08:53Hayden wanted to send them to Seattle.
08:56Fairly measured people who are losing their mind.
08:59And I do wonder when it comes down to whether you have confidence in a manager.
09:05Is that all it takes?
09:07Is just one pitching move?
09:09Because I know people say it's not about the pitching.
09:11It's about the hitting.
09:12It's about the hitting.
09:12And I'm like, yeah, but they had the lead.
09:14They had the lead when they pulled Gavin Williams.
09:16And then they didn't have the lead after that.
09:17Yesterday it was said to me.
09:18Because I made an argument about Jose Ramirez again.
09:22And my producer over at 8 had said, you know,
09:24there's been three Guardians that have been on base.
09:27Like actual players that have been on base in this series.
09:29But they have seven hits?
09:30Yeah.
09:30It's been very bad.
09:32So I know that we can.
09:34But that's the whole thing is that your pitching is your strength.
09:37Your starting pitching is your strength.
09:38Your first two starters went.
09:40And one of the big knocks against you is pulling one of those starters too soon.
09:44That goes against you.
09:45Because you want to play to your strengths.
09:47Not to your weaknesses.
09:49Your weakness is seen as your lineup.
09:50Your strength is seen as your starting rotation.
09:52But didn't they mitigate?
09:53And you went away from that starting rotation.
09:55Yeah, exactly.
09:55I agree.
09:55They mitigated their strength so quickly.
09:59They changed the game.
10:01The game changed.
10:02And you can say, well, you've been.
10:04And this was Matt Derry's point.
10:05We brought him on.
10:07His point of view was, well, but you went to one of your other strengths by going to
10:13a bullpen that you have believed in, especially the last few months of the year.
10:16I know, but it doesn't look like Gavin Williams.
10:19It didn't look like that.
10:21It's true.
10:22That is true.
10:23We go to the phones.
10:25Warren in a car.
10:26You're first up on the fan.
10:27Hello, Warren.
10:28Morning, guys.
10:29Great show.
10:31And I'll tell you, I agree with what you're saying.
10:34But it's going to come down to the hitting, man, because if these guys go, I mean, how
10:40many runs?
10:41I know you want to have more than them, obviously, because that's how you win.
10:45But come on.
10:46How many runs that these guys give up and then we make a change do you think we'll be
10:50good at?
10:51Like, if they give up two, we got a shot or what?
10:55But the bottom line, it still comes down.
10:56You got to hit, man.
10:57If you don't hit, these guys could go out and throw darts all night long and get us
11:04to, I don't know, let's say the fourth or fifth, because it seems like it's even before
11:08that that they get taken out.
11:09But you got to hit, man.
11:12And these guys, the lumber's been sleeping.
11:14We all know it.
11:15I think they break out of it tonight.
11:18You know, the law of averages with a bunch of bullpen guys would say yes, because you
11:24can only, I mean, you look at it this way.
11:27Like, they've seen Newcomb before.
11:29All right.
11:29They would have seen all these guys before.
11:31Warren, you bring up a great point here, because it would almost be like you're seeing
11:35them now in the third inning and it's your second time up against them.
11:40Almost.
11:40Like you would be going against a conventional starter.
11:43So that does make me feel a little bit better.
11:45This is almost like, all right, you haven't seen these guys, away you go.
11:49So, you know what, and it's not even what, and Warren, thank you very much for the call,
11:53because it doesn't even go back to the numbers like what John said.
11:55What John said, great stuff, not ripping John.
11:59But you're almost trying to do what Will Venable did to you, whereas you take your guys and
12:06you kind of play shadow games now.
12:08It's like, okay, you haven't seen him in a long time.
12:10Espino, you haven't seen Joey Cantillo in a little bit.
12:15So, yeah, there's scouting reports, but you don't get that chance to really get into
12:20the box a second time against these guys.
12:22And that's what the White Sox have done to us.
12:25Like, you have a starting pitcher, like what happened in the sixth?
12:28You give up a leadoff single in the sixth inning.
12:30All right, well, you're going through your third time in the order with Gavin Williams.
12:36So now they're starting to get you.
12:37That's what makes it a little bit tougher to go through a game.
12:39And so now you're trying to throw them off with, hey, you're only going to see this
12:43guy probably once through the order.
12:45And then you're going to see Joey Cantillo once, maybe twice through the order.
12:51And then that's it.
12:52So it's kind of reverse of what the White Sox are doing.
12:54So it's saying that and talking to Warren, it does make you feel a little bit better about
12:59tonight's game, I would say.
13:01But no, this definitely feels like unconventional thinking.
13:05It is unconventional.
13:07Desperate?
13:08Well, you're down 0-2.
13:09So can you blame for desperation?
13:11We'll find out.
13:12Because if it doesn't work, you're going to hear about it all winter long.
13:14All winter long.
13:15Well, and I wonder, you know, we're talking about the bats, the bats, the bats, the bats.
13:19Do you think they make a move with Jose Ramirez today?
13:26No.
13:27I think a bad second.
13:29Okay.
13:31What do you want to do with, I'm trying to think about where.
13:36I mean, what, you know, they don't have a ton of tools at their disposal, obviously.
13:40I think that's, that's been one of the themes of, of this, of this lineup.
13:45You know, at this stage, we, we knew, we knew this would get tougher.
13:48Hey, they had some nice at-bats at the end of that game.
13:51They just unfortunately hit them right two guys.
13:53I looked over.
13:54We got calls coming out the, out our eyeballs here.
13:56Okay.
13:57Coming up at eight o'clock, we'll go around the AFC North.
13:59I'll put off the, uh, everybody on the station's jumping off the bridge.
14:03So I guess you and I are going to jump off the bridge too, when it comes to one certain
14:06conversation about a complete hypothetical about the Browns QB room, but are the guardians
14:12overthinking it?
14:12We'll get to you guys coming up five minutes away on the fan.
14:15You're welcome.
