Christian Harry Potter: When Spiritual Warfare Becomes a Fantasy World | Pia Hugo | Episode 734 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Pia explore the spiritual warfare system Pia learned through New Apostolic Reformation circles, including prophetic intercession, territorial spirits, spiritual mapping, prayer altars, generational curses, regional strongholds, fasting, prayer watches, and the belief that individuals could help transform cities through strategic prayer. Pia describes her experiences with Lou Engle, Cindy Jacobs, houses of prayer, extended fasting, and the intense sense of responsibility placed on young believers who were told they were preparing for an end-times spiritual battle.  They also compare this worldview with the fictional world of Harry Potter, examining the irony of rejecting fantasy stories while describing an unseen realm filled with spiritual enemies, special warriors, geographic strongholds, and cosmic conflict. Pia discusses the emotional consequences of believing that failed deliverance or unanswered prayer reflected personal failure, and John and Pia consider how these teachings can shape young people, discourage critical thinking, and turn ordinary struggles into battles against invisible forces.  CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 07:28 Who Lou Engle and Cindy Jacobs Are 15:25 Houses of Prayer and 24/7 Spiritual Warfare 20:10 Pia’s Training as a Prophetic Intercessor 26:00 Why Young People Were Drawn Into the Movement 33:03 The Historical Roots of the Prayer-Warfare Model 38:26 Personal Deliverance and Generational Curses 47:47 When Deliverance Replaces Mental Health Care 52:14 Politics, Dominionism, and the 2020 Election 59:51 Gamified Religion and the Endgame  ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:00:40at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Pia Hugo, former member

00:00:46of the New Apostolic Reformation.

00:00:48Pia, of everything that we have talked about so far, this is probably going to be the most

00:00:53difficult for me, and I'm going to be open and honest to the audience, open and honest

00:00:57to you, I'm going to have a hard time with this one, because we're going to be talking,

00:01:01and you're going to get it deep into the subject matter, and I'm going to start laughing, because

00:01:06we're talking about Christian Harry Potter today, and I'm sorry, I just, I can't help

00:01:12it.

00:01:13And to tell the audience what we just talked about, right before this, I was recording a

00:01:18podcast with Franny, and we were talking about a lady who's fighting demons in her bedroom,

00:01:23and some of the stuff that she got into, she said that a whole camp of witches was circling

00:01:29on brooms in her, weird stuff, I'll just say it like that, and this is the same movement

00:01:35that says you can't watch Harry Potter, so they're talking about witches and demons and

00:01:40all of this weird stuff, and the kids are just thinking, I want to watch Harry Potter,

00:01:45why can't I watch that?

00:01:45The adults have their fun, and anyway, I'm going to have some trouble with this one,

00:01:50I'll be laughing, just forgive me now, because it's going to happen.

00:01:55Well, let me tell you, the reason why these Christian parents don't let their kids watch

00:02:03Harry Potter and such is because supposedly it will open the doors, and then it will really

00:02:10happen in their real lives, like, you know, so I will have a hard time myself, but for a

00:02:18different reason, we've been talking about a lot of different characters from NERR, right?

00:02:27New Apostolic Reformation, starting with my former brother-in-law, Cheon.

00:02:33Of all the characters, Lou Angle is the one that I really tried not to talk about too much,

00:02:43because I like the guy, I still like him, you know, him and his wife, you know, they were

00:02:53genuine friends of mine back in the day, so, you know, but as I have been on this journey

00:03:00with you learning more and more about the false doctrines and false theologies, I had to acknowledge

00:03:10the fact that even the most, you know, well-meaning, good-intentioned people who get caught up in

00:03:20the system, you know, they're just wrong. I mean, it's funny, you know, but it's also sad,

00:03:31because the fact that they are so seriously deceived, and continue to teach others the same

00:03:41false things. So, that's why I've decided, all right, I'm going to spill the beans. You laugh away,

00:03:51John, you're forgiven. So, I'm going to start it like this. I know, I've watched enough of your

00:03:59videos to know that the key word to say in order to get instant credibility as a minister

00:04:07is to say, Brother Branham said this, and whenever you say, Brother Branham said this, he said that,

00:04:18people will just automatically accept what you're saying as truth, because, heck, it's from Brother

00:04:25Branham. Even if it was like, Brother Branham said the aliens are going to come and invade us,

00:04:32it's like, oh my gosh, you know, there is total absence of any kind of critical thinking in these

00:04:41movements. So, in the NAR world, it's almost like the same effect when you say, Lou Engel said,

00:04:51or Cindy Jacobs said, because that is how highly esteemed and highly valued these two individuals

00:05:04are, and I have quite the history with them. So, let's get started.

00:05:12You know, you said, Brother Branham said, well, you just caused all of these triggers to go off in my

00:05:17head, because I grew up, and that's all we heard, was Brother Branham said. In fact, after I left the

00:05:22movement, there was a family member who was in the hospital, and I was debating on whether or not I

00:05:27should even go, because I'm kind of outcast, and I finally decided I'm going to go for respect of the

00:05:33person who's in the hospital bed, and I'm sitting there in the waiting room, and there's like two or

00:05:38three people from the church who were there to grieve with, you know, with the family, and they're

00:05:43sitting there, and I heard Brother Branham said this, Brother Branham said, and it was just bouncing

00:05:47around the room, and you could watch as a nurse would walk by, you could watch your eyes rolling

00:05:52at the people. It's just so weird, and it was a movement that was teaching you that you could say

00:05:58and use, thus saith the Lord. You had the power, too. It was the spoken word. You can do it,

00:06:03too,

00:06:03the rhema, and yet at the same time, they're pointing that to him as though he has the reverence,

00:06:10Brother Branham said. Well, after I left the movement, I played a little game, which is a

00:06:16little bit insidious, but it did kind of work. I knew the power of that phrase, Brother Branham

00:06:22said, and so at this point in time, my website had started, my blog had started, I'd not yet

00:06:29started YouTube, and there were these forums where people would go, and they would talk to

00:06:33each other about, Brother Branham said this, Brother Branham said that. Well, I created two profiles

00:06:39of two different people, and I knew all of the really internal flaws with the ministry,

00:06:45and I would post with one user, Brother Branham said this, and just to simplify it so people

00:06:51can understand, as a doctor, and I'll say, Brother Branham said Smurfs are blue, and then

00:06:56I would take the other user, and I would say, no, Brother Branham said Smurfs are pink, and

00:07:01I would give the sermon reference, and then he's blue, he's pink, he's blue, and people

00:07:05were starting to wake up and say, wait a minute, Brother Branham can't say both things,

00:07:09can he, really? And they go look, and sure enough, fundamental core doctrines of the movement,

00:07:15he's arguing with himself, and it's just, it's the power of weirdness, and as we continue,

00:07:21I'll probably interrupt with more weirdness as we go.

00:07:25All right, so where to begin? Let's talk about who they are, right? There might be some people

00:07:32in your audience who don't even know who Lou Engel or Cindy Jacobs are, so Lou Engel is my former

00:07:42pastor. He co-pastored, and he co-founded Harvest Rock Church in Pasadena, California, with his best

00:07:53buddy, Cheon, who is still the leader of Harvest Rock to this day, and he is also known as the

00:08:06main

00:08:06founder of two very famous, massive fasting and prayer movements called the Send and the Call.

00:08:19Well, actually, it's the other way around. The Call first, and then the Send. Do you understand

00:08:25the difference between the Call and the Send, John? Has anybody explained it to you?

00:08:30I know it from a biblical standpoint, but what he's talking about, I'm probably not sure.

00:08:35So he started with a call. I think the first big one, don't quote me on this, maybe 1990,

00:08:43but the call was all about calling all you intercessors, like, let us gather, right? It's the

00:08:52call. Like, the call has been sent out from heaven, and boy, did multitudes of young people, you know,

00:09:01heed the call. And then I think it was around 2000, you know, maybe, yeah, the year 2000,

00:09:09so maybe 10 years have passed. And then he changed it to the Send, because now that we've been called,

00:09:18now he was going to send us out. So that's just a brief history of these prayer movements.

00:09:29Now, I have a photo that I would like you to show your audience, and you actually showed this same

00:09:38photograph not too long ago. And that's me and my Papa Lou, as I used to call him. And that

00:09:50was only

00:09:50three years ago, John, there was a, again, massive call slash send rally. And this was this took place

00:10:02at the LA Coliseum, one of the biggest venues that you can, you know, rent in Los Angeles.

00:10:15We, we only filled enough, I think, to, to occupy the outside. We didn't even go inside, because I

00:10:25think it would have, it would have looked, you know, too pathetic. So I just remember, we just stood

00:10:31outside. And that was our massive rally. But you know, I did, I didn't see Lou there. That was the

00:10:37last

00:10:38time I saw him. So that's, that's Lou Angle for you. And then Cindy Jacobs, along with her husband,

00:10:47co-founded the Generals International. And this was the same idea of calling all the generals, all the

00:10:57prayer generals. And she is a self-proclaimed prophetess, and also a leading figure of NAR.

00:11:08So the photo that I want to show your audience, John, you'll see a couple, and their faces are

00:11:20blurred, because I want to protect their identities. But in my last podcast, I told you that I was part

00:11:28of a NAR church from 2020 to 2024. So that couple is now divorced. So that's, that's that. But very

00:11:40clearly, you see Mike and Cindy Jacobs. And this day was launch day, we had moved from another location

00:11:52in Hollywood. And now we found, you know, the location, this was the location that we were praying

00:12:00about. It's right smack at the heart of Hollywood. And, you know, because you got to have proximity,

00:12:06John, it's all about the geography. You know, what what better way to close those demonic portals to

00:12:13Hollywood than to be right there in the middle of it all. And, and so we were celebrating our first,

00:12:22you know, Sunday, our first official Sunday, being in this new location. And you know, you know,

00:12:30who got that cake, John, my husband and myself, we bought that cake. So and that was just three years

00:12:39ago. So again, when I'm talking about leaving NAR, I'm talking just like a year and a half ago,

00:12:50it's still rather new for me. And so this is this has really been helpful all our podcasts, I mean,

00:12:57I'm hoping that there are people out there that are being, you know, helped somehow finding some

00:13:06healing. But trust me, I'm the one I am the one I probably getting the most benefit from this because

00:13:14I truly also need to detox and deconstruct from all this nonsense. This Harry Potter nonsense,

00:13:23as you call it. I was talking to Franny earlier today, as I mentioned, and I thought that most of

00:13:32these charismatic churches of today were teaching Harry Potter nonsense, when I was in the cult.

00:13:38That's the weird part of all of this. So I was in a cult that was pointing fingers at all

00:13:42of these

00:13:42other groups that exist today, while at the same time believing that we had a leader who had a magic

00:13:49sword. We literally believe the man had a magic sword. And the irony of all of this, I leave I

00:13:56told you before the podcast, I'm a big fan of cartoons. And I used to watch all these cartoons

00:14:01of the guy with the magic sword. And I knew it was fiction. And even as an adult, I'm looking

00:14:06back at

00:14:06my adult life when I'm believing this stuff, I just can't believe that I fell for this.

00:14:10And yet, I'm a smart person. I know doctors, I know lawyers, I know very intelligent people who

00:14:18believe that the man had a magic sword. I really do. You look back at this, and you scratch your

00:14:23head, and you think, what happened? Was it brainwashing? And literally, it comes down to this.

00:14:28Whenever you use that phrase that you mentioned earlier, Brother Branham said, and you can plug in

00:14:33any central figure. Che On said, people shut off critical thinking. And even as an adult, if you're going

00:14:39to shut off your critical thinking, you're going to believe that people have magic swords. And

00:14:43you're going to believe that there are witches flying around your Airbnb. It's just, it's crazy

00:14:49stuff. But I, I look back at those times in my life, and it feels like I was a zombie.

00:14:55I don't feel

00:14:56like I was in control of my mind whenever I was in this, because a person who's in control of

00:15:01their

00:15:01mind doesn't believe this kind of stuff.

00:15:02Yep. Well, I think as we go along, you know, in this podcast, you know,

00:15:09we can, we can try to analyze the whys, you know, I am going to get there, you know, like

00:15:15why, why, why did we believe in all this stuff? But, so I want to continue with what Lou Engel

00:15:24and Cindy Jacobs are known for. The other thing they're known for is starting houses of prayer,

00:15:31prayer, right? Both of these, you know, individuals were all about strategic corporate prayer. So for

00:15:43them, prayer wasn't just, you know, communicating with God, you know? I mean, I am all for prayer,

00:15:52by the way, right? Praying to God on your own, praying to God with your family, with a group of

00:15:58people. I mean, obviously that's so central to our Christian life. But they really, really took

00:16:05it to a place, I think, that definitely went too far. Let me, let me just put it that way.

00:16:12So both Lou Engel and Cindy Jacobs followed in the footsteps of their buddy, Mike Bickle.

00:16:19Let's just mention that guy. So Mike Bickle is known as the founder of IHOP Casey International

00:16:28House of Prayer in Kansas City. So I'm not going to go into Mike Bickle any further. People can just

00:16:37Google him. But now there's a character for you, right? But within the NAR circles, that was another

00:16:45name that was highly esteemed. And Mike Bickle was the first one to come up with 24-7 prayer, right?

00:16:55Like non-stop, uninterrupted prayer. So people would have to take shifts, like two, three-hour shifts

00:17:02to keep the flames going, right? And then you would often have live worship music going on as well.

00:17:10So that was my role, John. I was a prayer leader. And I would take these two to three-hour

00:17:21shifts.

00:17:24And I was part of two houses of prayer. So the first one was led by, you know, started and

00:17:31led by Lou Engel.

00:17:32And we met at a building called Mott Auditorium. I don't know if you've ever heard of that place.

00:17:40But we were the motley crew. You like that?

00:17:44Yeah.

00:17:45We were fondly called the motley crew of Lou Engel. And we literally met at a building called

00:17:54the Mott. And Mott was the location for Harvest Rock Church back in 1994 when the Toronto Blessing

00:18:06came to California. And, you know, remember that last podcast we had where the dogs were barking,

00:18:16the lions were roaring, the people were shaking.

00:18:18And, you know, all heaven broke loose. And it was fun for me. You know, I was in my 20s.

00:18:29And

00:18:30when Lou Engel, you know, started his 21-day fast, 40-day fast, that's, you know, bring in the revival

00:18:38because this is it. You know, it's imminent. And he's been seeing it's imminent for the last, like,

00:18:4730-plus years. Still waiting. We're still waiting. But back then, I remember in the mid-1990s,

00:18:57I gave my heart and soul into this house of prayer.

00:19:03The other house of prayer that I was a part of was started by Cindy Jacobs and this couple that

00:19:12I talked

00:19:12about, who were my last NAR pastors. And the building was in Little Tokyo. If you've ever been to

00:19:25downtown LA, there is Chinatown. And not too far from it is a place called Little Tokyo.

00:19:31And why is that important? Because that is the same location as the historic Azusa Street mission,

00:19:41where revival broke out in 1906. So like I said, it's all about geography, right? So she,

00:19:51Cindy Jacobs, wanted to be right smack where it first started. So both of these,

00:20:00these leaders, Lou and Cindy, were like my, my trainers, me, my, my mentors.

00:20:12So I want to back up a little bit to 1991. My husband at that time, and I decided to

00:20:23move

00:20:24to Los Angeles because Che and Sue Ahn kept saying, it's time for revival. So we moved, we sold everything.

00:20:34You know, we were living in Maryland. I was working for PDI at that time, if you recall,

00:20:39but we moved everything. We moved, we moved clear across the country, all to be a part of what God

00:20:48was

00:20:49doing. This was the place to be. Now, back then, I didn't know what a prophetic intercessor was,

00:20:58but I was told, but I was told, that's your destiny, Pia. You're called to be a prophetic intercessor.

00:21:06And you need to be part of the spiritual warfare going on. And back then, you know, those were just

00:21:13mumbo jumbo.

00:21:14So, but I went through, you know, like Harry Potter has his school of wizardry. So I went through my

00:21:26training school with Lou Angle and Che on, and later on Cindy Jacobs. And I, I feel I, I'm kind

00:21:36of an expert

00:21:37now. So let me tell you what subjects we learned. Are you ready? I'm going to give you a list.

00:21:44Standing in the gap, building prayer altars, spiritual mapping, identifying territorial spirits.

00:21:54That's a big one. You got to identify all the territorial geographic spirits and principalities,

00:22:01because if you don't know who they are and where they are, how are you going to take them down,

00:22:07John?

00:22:07So, so that's, that was huge. Breaking of historic strongholds. So we're talking in over individuals'

00:22:20lives. In this case, they would be called generational curses or over, you know, entire cities,

00:22:28cities, right? Historic strongholds over entire cities and nations, redeeming the land. And of course,

00:22:36cleansing entire regions spiritually. I got so good at these things, John, that I actually taught them.

00:22:45I myself was promoted to be a teacher. And again, you know, I'm, I'm almost embarrassed to admit,

00:22:58but that's how deeply immersed I was in this whole thing.

00:23:03Now, see, if you'd have told me before we started recording that you were going to

00:23:07end up describing to me how you were the Dumbledore of the organization who's teaching the others,

00:23:13I don't know that I would have believed you. It's really odd to me. So I, I am a Harry

00:23:18Potter

00:23:18fan. I'll openly admit it. And people can hate me in the comments because they always do, but I am

00:23:24a

00:23:24fan. I really like it. And it's odd to me that these churches don't like it because if you know

00:23:30and understand the Harry Potter world and the Harry Potter world, the things are happening in the magic

00:23:34realm that cascade down to the human realm, just exactly like they're describing. In fact,

00:23:40whoever invented this whole spiritual warfare thing, I'm certain they got it from reading books

00:23:45like this. Maybe not Harry Potter, but something similar. Think about it. There are special people

00:23:50who can perceive things that others cannot. Dumbledore is one of the examples. He has a special

00:23:56insight and you look through the crowd at these new apostolic reformation churches and you can pick

00:24:01out which ones are the Harry Potter key figures in the movement. There's just so many similarities.

00:24:07It's uncanny. Yes. And I am a fan myself. I remember when my kids, um, the, the books were

00:24:16just coming out and we would go to, um, it's called borders bookstore. I mean, who goes to bookstores

00:24:23these days, but back in the day in Los Angeles, we had a bookstore called borders and my kids and

00:24:31I

00:24:31would actually be there at midnight just to get, you know, the next installment, you know, and, and we

00:24:40would read, you know, the, the, all the books, I mean, they were thick books, man. And we would read

00:24:46them,

00:24:46you know, for bedtime stories. And of course, when the movies came out, you know, we watched all 10 of

00:24:53them. So trust me, John, I get it. Um, you know, it's funny because I, I have a sister who

00:25:02was part

00:25:03of NAR as well. I don't know if she is still part of it. I'm almost afraid to ask. Um,

00:25:10she, she moved to

00:25:11a different state, but back in the day, she was so into it that she also said, don't read Harry

00:25:20Potter

00:25:21books to my kids. She, she would babysit them and they would come home and says, you know,

00:25:27auntie so-and-so said, we're not supposed to read the books. And I think it actually added to the

00:25:33enjoyment because it's like, you're, you're consuming, you know, like these forbidden books.

00:25:41But I, thankfully I never got into that. You know, I, I didn't go that far. Um, but anyway,

00:25:48let's go back to the NAR school of training. I'm going to put it that way. So, uh, why,

00:25:58why was I so drawn to becoming a part of this movement, you know, wanting to go to the training

00:26:07schools? So if you've ever seen Lou Angle talk, okay, he's rocking. He's always rock. And this is

00:26:17raspy voice. Revival. It's revival, John. You know, I'm, I'm terrible at impersonating him, but

00:26:25I mean, everybody knows this is a signature voice and like, he's rocking with the rhythms of heaven.

00:26:34That's how we used to, that's how we used to describe it. Like, oh, he's so in touch with heaven,

00:26:40you know, like he's just so lost in that realm. And there was something about that physical

00:26:47rocking, you know, the cadence of his voice and just the way he was able to, you know,

00:26:55modulate his voice so that it just becomes louder and louder and more exciting. And then he gets to

00:27:01that emotional climax. And then he says, and we get to be a part of it, you know, like there's

00:27:07nothing

00:27:08better, you know, and one of the things that he loves to say, if not now, then when, and if

00:27:16not

00:27:16you, John, then who, you know, and when you're a 20 something and you're looking for your purpose

00:27:25in life and you love Jesus, you're like, this is it. Sign me up. And, and mind you in my

00:27:32twenties,

00:27:33I was a young mother with three kids. So you have to ask yourself, where did I find the time

00:27:42to, to do fast for 21 days? No, I never did just water. Okay. But I did like Daniel fast

00:27:50or whatever,

00:27:51you know, skipping coffee in the mornings. So don't think that I'm a, uh, like some kind of a

00:27:58martyr. All right. I, I did my own kind of fasting 21 days, 40 days. And, um, you know,

00:28:07I would go to these, these prayer marches around city hall, around all the, you know, important

00:28:14buildings, you know, in Hollywood, we would walk up and down, you know, uh, that sidewalk with all

00:28:20the Hollywood stars. Um, it's crazy. It's crazy when I look back now, like all the time I spent and

00:28:29let's not forget the two, three hour prayer watches sometimes twice a week. So the, why is important

00:28:41to, to look at right now, John, why would someone like me be a part of that? Because I think

00:28:50young

00:28:51people want to do something important. You know, they, they just really want to make sure that their

00:28:58lives are going to matter. And, and Lou Engel, I mean, he is masterful at making you feel like if

00:29:07you

00:29:07sign up for this, you know, not only will you get rewards here on earth, you know, because of course,

00:29:13this is all linked to the prosperity gospel, right? So, you know, this is, this is the key to success.

00:29:18And, you know, God's going to open doors for you, blah, blah, blah. But of course, um, you're always

00:29:24talking about eternity and in eternity, you know, you're going to be a general, right? Like you're a

00:29:32secret general here. Nobody knows your general or you're here, but when you go over there, oh,

00:29:37can you imagine all the metals here? You know, your, your uniform is going to be so full of metals,

00:29:43you know, they won't fit. And I think as, as ridiculous as all of this sounds, we ate it all

00:29:53up,

00:29:54John. It just seemed so plausible. And, um, you know, now I'm talking about the way Lou Engel talks

00:30:04in his raspy voice. Well, have you heard Cindy Jacobs? Not much. Very high, shrill, screechy voice.

00:30:15You know, guys, you know, and she has this word, basta, basta, basta means enough, you know, and it's

00:30:23really annoying, actually. She says, God has had enough, basta. And I can scarcely listen to her

00:30:33anymore. It's a wonder I ever did. But I felt I had to, okay? I mean, her voice is not

00:30:43soothing at all.

00:30:44You, you really feel like this is that, that, you know, like a drill sergeant. That's, that's how she

00:30:52sounded. You know, like, I think for me, Lou Engel was more like the visionary general. Whereas Cindy

00:31:00Jacobs sounded more like a, a screaming drill sergeant who, who, you know, like got you in your

00:31:06place and you gotta know, you know, you gotta know this, this, this. And she wrote a book that I

00:31:12read.

00:31:12Would you like to know the title? It was released in 1994, when everything happened, right? It's called

00:31:21Possessing the Gates of the Enemy, a training manual for militant intercession. You can still buy it

00:31:31on Amazon. I checked. It's still there. It's a literal training manual for militant intercession.

00:31:40And again, that was like our handbook. So you've got Papa Lou, you know, inspiring us. You've got Mama Cindy

00:31:51yelling into our ears. And somehow it worked. Because tons and tons of young people have been deceived

00:32:02for decades. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started? Or how the progression

00:32:09of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe movements

00:32:15into the new apostolic reformation? You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's

00:32:22website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research

00:32:29of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper,

00:32:36audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on various

00:32:43people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support

00:32:49the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe

00:32:55to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Branham Historical

00:33:01Research, we want to thank you for your support. So I'm going to let you in on a little bit

00:33:06of a

00:33:06secret. I've been studying this from multiple angles. And I have, I've started to form opinions

00:33:13on why things exist in the way that they do. And it's not really what people think. And again,

00:33:19this is my opinion. It might be wrong. I'm, I'm offering my opinion so people can hopefully try

00:33:25to piece together what has happened to them and how and why. It all comes back to the statement.

00:33:31You said Mike Bickle came up with this idea of this 24 seven fasting and prayer. Actually, he didn't.

00:33:38If you look through history, history is just repeating itself. These guys, they, they knew the

00:33:43history. Paul Cain was part of the Lateran movement. Paul Cain was working with Mike Bickle.

00:33:47The Lateran movement had the Sharon orphanage. The Sharon orphanage had a bunch of children at

00:33:53their disposal, children whose minds are moldable. And they created up, they created this strategy

00:33:59where they were maybe not around the clock, but almost around the clock. They were fasting and

00:34:04praying, some of them fasting up for 40 days. And this was going on. They were thinking that they

00:34:08could create a spiritual battle that would suddenly bring down heaven upon earth and fight the wars that

00:34:16were about to, they were fearing world war three. So they thought they would bring down the battle of

00:34:21God against the enemy. That's really what they were doing. So think about this. Think about everything

00:34:27that you've just described in the first half of this. Think about the cartoonish aspects of the

00:34:33key figures, whether they're really like this in real life. I don't know. I've not met these people,

00:34:38people. But you can find other people who have a stage persona that is quite different from

00:34:45themselves. And often it's very animated. And if you're trying to mold a large number of people

00:34:51to believe in your movement, and quite frankly, to fund your movement, you go after children because

00:34:58the children, their minds are easily moldable. But if you gamify the religion, in other words,

00:35:04if you make it more exciting and fun to them, even if you don't believe in the stuff that you're

00:35:08doing,

00:35:08the children will believe it. And so I believe, when you look at all the spiritual warfare, you look

00:35:14at the lady that I talked about earlier, who's literally claiming that a demon got in bed and

00:35:19said, I like you, you need to get in bed with me. Who says this in a Christian context? I

00:35:26don't think

00:35:26this, if the person has all their mental faculties, which I don't know, if they do, and they really

00:35:32believe this, they probably have some mental health issues. I question whether they even

00:35:36believe it. But there are children who will believe it. And what happens whenever you train

00:35:42a child to grow up in the way that you want, they're going to be very dedicated to whatever

00:35:47you train them. So literally, when they talk about building an army, you go after the children to build

00:35:54the army. And once the army is built, now you've got your funding, because many of them will get into

00:35:59jobs, and they'll have money. You've got new recruits to train other children, you basically

00:36:05got your entire platoon. And that's really what they're trying to create here, is platoons of

00:36:10people, maybe not so much for God, but to keep the engine running.

00:36:14Exactly. I'm glad that you, you went there, because that is what was explicitly stated.

00:36:24You know, they didn't even try to hide any kind of language. They told us that we were

00:36:33the last days, saints, soldiers, before, you know, before Jesus returns. So I think the problem that I

00:36:44have, the biggest problem I have, I mean, there are many problems, but probably the biggest one I have

00:36:50is the fact that all that pressure was placed on us. It, it depended on us to make sure that

00:36:59we closed

00:37:00every demonic portal, every demonic door. And if we're talking about Los Angeles and Hollywood,

00:37:09that's a lot of, that's a lot of sinful doors there. Okay, like, it's like modern day Sodom and

00:37:16Gomorrah. And so we were busy. We were busy going to all these different places and, you know,

00:37:25decreeing and declaring and, and casting out demons and principalities. And, and the thing is, John,

00:37:36if you don't see the changes, right, if you don't see the societal reform, if you don't see even

00:37:44changes in your own life, you know, cause I, I, that's where, where I want to go next is personal

00:37:51deliverance. You know, if you don't see those, um, those demons being cast out, you know, and, and

00:37:58you're actually in a worse state than, than you were, uh, when you began all this, then the condemnation

00:38:08that you feel right. The letdown, the disappointment, you know, like it's not, um, it's not the system.

00:38:17It's not out there. It must be me. Um, so let's talk a little bit about personal deliverance.

00:38:26Uh, I remember they would say, you need to make sure that you are, you know, like, like there's a,

00:38:33you need to have a short leash with God, right? You can't be out there fornicating and, you know,

00:38:41you can't be a homosexual and, um, you know, you, you can't be looking at porn because if you are

00:38:50trying to shut down the spirits of lust in Hollywood, but you yourself are sexually immoral,

00:39:00then you can't expect God to listen to your prayers, right? Like, don't be a hypocrite,

00:39:06which is really interesting, right? There, these guys are saying, you can't be hypocritical.

00:39:11You got to stay pure and holy for the Lord. So, I mean, again, think of the pressure, right? I

00:39:19have

00:39:19to be perfect. I can't even, I can't even look at that billboard. And trust me, there are many

00:39:24billboards in Hollywood. You don't, you don't have to go looking for, you know, for, uh, stuff to make

00:39:35you stumble. You look everywhere in Hollywood, in Los Angeles, and every billboard is going to cause

00:39:42you to stumble if you're trying to keep your eyes and your ears pure. So, you know, so what that

00:39:51meant,

00:39:51John, on an individual level, you are on high alert all the time. You, you couldn't just walk down the

00:39:58street like anybody else, right? And think, oh, I just, I'm just running to catch the train, you know,

00:40:05and, uh, um, I wonder, I wonder how I should do that project, you know, at work. No, no, you're

00:40:12not

00:40:12thinking like that. You're praying. You are praying in your intercede, like, Lord, protect me from all

00:40:17these evil people. And, you know, and you're constantly thinking of saving the loss. You

00:40:24know, you look around like, oh, these people, they're all lost. And, and it's just a very weird

00:40:30mindset. Like, it's very difficult to explain to someone who wasn't raised like this, but it really

00:40:39becomes your nature to be a prayer warrior, to be a prophetic intercessor, to be a deliverance

00:40:47minister. So, okay. So here's my big beef about personal deliverance. Do I believe in demons and

00:40:58angels? Yes, John, it's, it's in the Bible. Okay. So yes, I do. But the way that we were taught

00:41:06to cast

00:41:07out demons a lot, like we're not talking, you know, once in a blue moon, I mean, this was almost

00:41:16a daily

00:41:17occurrence where we were casting out demons from each other. And of course, above, you know, in the

00:41:23spiritual atmosphere. And, um, I'll give you an example. So let's say a guy walks into the church,

00:41:33he's a brand new Christian, and he's dealing with alcoholism. So the deliverance minister will say,

00:41:41well, brother, um, you've got the spirit of alcoholism and you probably got it from your

00:41:49father, right? So there you go. The generational curse, you know, the guy thinks, well, I did see my

00:41:56dad drink, you know, quite a lot of beers back in the day. It's like, well, there you go. That's

00:42:02confirmation. And, you know, I bet your grandfather, you know, like, it's all the way back in your

00:42:08ancestry. So we got to go, we got to go all the way back to the root of that spirit

00:42:13of alcoholism.

00:42:14And then they'll, you know, they'll, you have to ask forgiveness from your ancestors, because, you know,

00:42:20they didn't know what they were doing. And then just cast it out. And that's it. That was their cure.

00:42:28Well, surprise, surprise, it doesn't work, John, because you're still going to go back and you're

00:42:35still going to drink. And then your wife leaves you because you're drinking. And so, you know,

00:42:43the pastor and the deliverance minister is saying, well, you know what, it's that darn generational curse

00:42:50of alcoholism. Let's, let's schedule another deliverance session for you. And how about

00:42:58trying AA, you know, how about seeing a therapist, you know, maybe there's a root behind why you drink

00:43:07so much, you know, I mean, psychology, psychiatry, it's, it's out there. I actually did a little bit

00:43:20of research. Do you know that there is a gene? There's a gene that scientists are calling the

00:43:27alcohol use disorder. But it's, it's not spiritual, right? It's, it's in, it's in your DNA. And it does

00:43:36get passed on. And it accounts for about 40 to 60% of your overall risk of being an alcoholic

00:43:45if you

00:43:45have this particular gene. But there's still the other percentage to, you know, to account for.

00:43:54So yeah, maybe watching your dad drink a lot made you decide, hey, if I have a problem, I'm going

00:44:01to do

00:44:01what my dad did, I'm going to drink. So why do we have to over spiritualize everything is what I'm

00:44:07trying to say. You know, there's got to be, you know, it within our, it's always the devil behind

00:44:14every bush. And there's a lot of bush. So you got to walk and make sure, oh, there's one there.

00:44:21No,

00:44:22there's one there. Like that, that funny story that you just shared about the witches flying around

00:44:29this poor woman's room. Like there's so many. Well, if you are obsessed with that, like, if that's all

00:44:36you think about, then of course, you're going to find demons and witches and warlocks and all kinds of

00:44:44wizard wizardries everywhere. You know, because we do live in an evil world. And I'm sorry, but a lot of

00:44:55it

00:44:56is just plain old human nature. It is our flesh. And why don't we deal with that? Like, that's what

00:45:04Paul said, crucify the flesh. Let's work on that. You know, I think all this overemphasis on demonology

00:45:13really takes away personal responsibility and accountability.

00:45:18You know, Pia, you have convinced me something in this podcast that nobody's ever really convinced

00:45:23me. I've always wondered where it came from. I'm a music lover. And you have convinced me now that

00:45:30generational curses is the cause of every country music song. You get the generational curse,

00:45:35your wife's going to leave you, your dog's going to leave you, you're going to lose your truck.

00:45:41It's unbelievable. You know, here's the thing. Everything that you have described, still,

00:45:47I'm laughing because it is a Harry Potter world that they have created. But think of the difference

00:45:53between the Harry Potter world and the world of Christianity. And this is why I knew Harry Potter

00:45:58world was fictional, because it doesn't really match what you read in the Bible. So anybody who's

00:46:03saying these demons of Harry Potter are going to get you, it's because they have modeled their

00:46:08Christianity after the Harry Potter world, not after what the Bible is. If they model after the Bible,

00:46:13like you and me, they could watch it and enjoy the children's show, right? But in the Harry Potter

00:46:18world, there are cosmic forces that you're constantly battling. You can't see these cosmic

00:46:24forces. They're out to get you. In the Bible world, Jesus has already defeated. He has enacted the

00:46:31decisive victory that has already conquered all of this. So we're living in this world, we don't have

00:46:36to fear all of this. If you're a Christian, you believe what the Bible says. The question really

00:46:41remains for me, and this is on the serious note, is it Christian? Can you be a Christian and not

00:46:47believe what the Bible says about God already? When he said, it is finished, did you just simply

00:46:53not believe him when he said this? I mean, it comes down to that question for me. I am sincerely

00:47:01of the

00:47:02opinion that most of the people who are preaching the spiritual warfare stuff really don't believe it

00:47:07at all, but have found that it is a good way to train children to believe of the same mindset.

00:47:14Maybe that's okay. If that's, you know, if you're doing it for a good purpose, I understand why you

00:47:18did it. But the question for me is, is the mindset actually Christian? If it's not, everything that

00:47:24you're doing to these children is so wrong. It's so bad what you're doing. And it's going to lead them

00:47:30down pathways that's going to ruin their lives. That's why we have the Our Friday stories where

00:47:35everybody's sharing their story. Everyone who's on that, our story segment of the podcast, they're

00:47:41talking about all of the things that happened because their lives was destroyed for things just like

00:47:46this. And, you know, yes, on a more serious note, I think the danger really lies when someone has serious

00:47:57mental health issues. And you think that one deliverance session is going to cure that person,

00:48:06you know, that you can actually pray away schizophrenia, or suicidal ideations, or, you know, like, in my case,

00:48:16I came from, you know, childhood sexual abuse, and then I was domestically abused in my 20s.

00:48:24And no wonder, you know, by the time I was 30 years old, and I had already gone through all

00:48:31this

00:48:31training, and I had already, you know, been trying to pray away all of the pain, you know, all the

00:48:40negative emotions that were coming up. I remember going to my, my pastor, you know, Cheyenne,

00:48:50and I told him about my childhood, I told him about what my husband was doing to me, you know,

00:49:00behind closed

00:49:01doors. And he just kind of slapped me with a Bible verse, you know, well, the old has gone, the

00:49:09new has come,

00:49:10like, you know, like, move on. And then, and then he cast out a spirit of anger and a spirit

00:49:18of

00:49:19unforgiveness, because I was telling him, I'm having a really, really hard time forgiving, you know, my,

00:49:26my perpetrators. And later on, you know, he told me that I, I was being rebellious, and I had a

00:49:36problem

00:49:37with anger. Well, who wouldn't, like, I mean, it took decades of, of therapy work, and psychology work, you know,

00:49:50for me to really process all the trauma that I had been through, including spiritual abuse. So, yeah, I want

00:50:00to

00:50:00pause here. And, you know, we're, we're laughing a lot, which is good. Laughter is a, you know, a great

00:50:07medicine for the soul. But in all seriousness, if there's anyone out there who's listening, and you are

00:50:15dealing with, with serious pain, you know, emotional pain, mental pain, mental health issues that won't go

00:50:25away, you know, there is help out there. You know, I mean, I was led to believe that I was

00:50:35too far gone, John, like, I was just too crazy to help, because none of their deliverance sessions

00:50:43worked for me. So I must be irreparably broken. And yeah, I mean, that's, that is the most ridiculous

00:50:52statement ever, right? As you said, John, when Jesus said on the cross, it is finished. He meant that what

00:51:02we need is

00:51:03the blood, you know, Jesus is blood on the cross, it really does cover all things, right? But, but it

00:51:12also requires us

00:51:14to get some help, get some professional trauma and form help. And, you know, and obviously, if it's

00:51:25Christ based, if it's based on the power of the cross, that's actually what I do. I still, I know,

00:51:32I mean, I hope

00:51:33I'm not sounding like a hypocrite to some of my clients, but I still pray, and, and, and pray away,

00:51:40you know, some spirits, and, and I do inner healing and deliverance, but it's very, very different

00:51:47from, you know, from what we're talking about here. So I want to end with, with, for me, an example

00:51:59of where all this decreeing and declaring and, and, and, and, and, you know, cleansing regions

00:52:08spiritually, where it all just went crazy. The year was 2020. And I had just got plugged into this

00:52:21new NAR church, new for me, um, in Hollywood. And you know, what happened in 2020? It was the

00:52:31elections. And, uh, so many NAR prophets were saying, Trump is going to go for another four years. Of

00:52:42course he is, right? Because like Cindy Jacobs said, like, basta, you know, enough is enough. God is using

00:52:50Trump. Trump is the trumpet. I've heard that so many times. He is trumpeting God's decrees and the,

00:53:00and declarations. And, um, and we would have 24 seven round o'clock prayer for the elections.

00:53:12And, um, and then what happened? He lost. And what did they say? Oh, it was stolen.

00:53:21You know, those evil Democrats. So January 5th, you know, and I, trust me, John, I am, I don't like

00:53:31politics. Okay. So this, this is not going to go very far, but I just, I just want to remind

00:53:38people

00:53:39or maybe tell people who don't know. It was my former brother-in-law, Cheon, who spoke in Washington,

00:53:45D.C. at a rally called Stop the Steal. And he said that, um, that we're, we're going to get

00:53:55the

00:53:55elections back, right? We're going to, we're going to get the, the, the right president in the White

00:54:01House. Um, and, and that, um, the next four years, the, the Christians would rule and reign.

00:54:12Those are exact words that we would be ruling and reigning over America, because for them,

00:54:21synonymous to make America great again is to make America Christian again, right? And so where was

00:54:31all of this praying and fasting and, you know, cleansing the land and getting rid of all these

00:54:40demonic territorial principalities, where was all of this headed? It was headed into just one

00:54:48inevitability, John. And it was the rise of the last days, Joel's army. It all was going to lead here.

00:54:58And, and, and everything you said about training the children, training the young, it's all to get

00:55:05them primed so that we could all come together in one big, whatever network. And, and NAR wanted to be

00:55:17the it network, right? There's so many other networks, but you know, according to the apostles and

00:55:25prophets of NAR, um, they were it. And, and, and so for us, we were taught like that we would

00:55:37be like

00:55:38the little gods decreeing and declaring. And, you know, once we get Los Angeles all cleaned up and

00:55:47Hollywood all cleaned up, then it would spread to all the other states and America would be great

00:55:56again, and it would be clean. And it would be, you know, we would be this, this, this lighthouse for

00:56:03all the other nations. And when I learned about William Branham, it was almost, um, shocking for me.

00:56:12And you can definitely talk more into this. It was like the exact framework of William Branham,

00:56:20um, his manifest sons of God, where an elite group of end time believers would attain ultimate

00:56:29spiritual maturity. And they would operate as literal living manifestations of God with a spoken

00:56:38word power to decree and declare, to judge, to heal, to heal, and to deliver entire nations.

00:56:47I got that from the internet. And that could easily have been in any of the NAR manuals. Because

00:56:57it just this light bulb just came on like, because I always wondered like, where, you know, let's just

00:57:05say we actually succeed. And, you know, and Hollywood becomes Hollywood. We were always praying that way.

00:57:13Hollywood was really supposed to be named Hollywood. This is going to be the holy city. And I mean,

00:57:18can you imagine Hollywood becoming the holy city? Like, what universe are you living in? But they really

00:57:27believe that, right? And so, but I, you know, what I, what I failed to do back then was connect

00:57:35the dots.

00:57:36It's like, okay, let's say we do get all the soldiers lined up and we, we, you know, decree and

00:57:44declare.

00:57:44And now LA is cleansed and Washington DC is cleansed. You know, we're cleaning out the swamp.

00:57:50And now all the politicians are now Christian, right? I mean, it's the whole dominionism thing.

00:57:59What happens if we actually are at the top of every mountain, all seven of them?

00:58:11Now what? Right. Okay. So let me follow the dots here. Well, then we will be the rulers of the

00:58:20world.

00:58:21You know, we will be like, you know, like they didn't, they would never say this, but it's kind of

00:58:26like, we are going to be the demigods and then Jesus can come back. You know, then Jesus will say,

00:58:33well done, good and faithful servants, right? Like, yes, I wanted you to do that. I wanted you to make

00:58:40way, you know, make straight the way for me. And, and, and that's good. I'm glad that you all got

00:58:48the

00:58:48memo that, that I imbued you with Elijah anointing. I heard that a lot. You're all just like Elijah

00:58:59with all this superpowers in order to make the way straight so that Jesus can return.

00:59:07And so let's hurry up. So Jesus can return. Let's, let's get this, let's get this earth cleaned up

00:59:12real quick so that Jesus can return. And like, when I saw that, that's when I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

00:59:21like I stepped on the brakes really hard at that point. And, and I just thought, okay, I need to

00:59:30get

00:59:30out of here. I need to leave the schools of wizardry and throw my manual for militant intercession out.

00:59:42And let me just get my head back on straight because this is a very dangerous movement

00:59:51on a, on a, on a very, um, wrong trajectory. And without even realizing it, you have connected the

01:00:00dots between the patterns that I mentioned in my opinion that I was going to save as the climax.

01:00:05You've already mentioned them. The first one is without even saying this, if you can teach the

01:00:11children to gamify the religion, to train them what to believe, you can also teach the children

01:00:19to gamify religion, to train them how to vote. That's a big concern of mine. It's a true concern.

01:00:25The other thing you mentioned, which is, I hate to say it, it is the funniest thing. You mentioned this,

01:00:31what happens when you conquer the seven mountains? Well, think of how a video game works.

01:00:35When you get to the level end, you get to the level boss and you fight the boss. Well,

01:00:40then you go to the next level, you fight that boss. Well, what happens when you get all of the

01:00:44bosses

01:00:45beaten? Well, suddenly you have game over. And that's really, that's really what they have.

01:00:50They have built themselves up to this gamified religion and nobody has thought about what happens

01:00:54when you hit game over. But in their model of religion, there's nothing else. That's really the problem

01:01:00because they have structured it as a gamified religion that matches the Harry Potter world.

01:01:05In the Christian realm, it doesn't end like this. There's two different endings to this game,

01:01:11and you can either choose the path that's in the Bible or you can choose the path that's in

01:01:15NAR. So thank you so much for doing this. You're welcome. Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you

01:01:20want more information, you can check us out on the web. You can find us at william-branum.org

01:01:24and piahugoministries.com. For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation,

01:01:29you can read Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR. Available on Amazon, Kindle,

01:01:35and Audible.

Christian Harry Potter: When Spiritual Warfare Becomes a Fantasy World | Pia Hugo | Episode 734

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