- 9 hours ago
Sneaky Joe DiBiase, Owen Parker, and Joe Cali get things started on Wednesday morning by discussing the Sabres impressive 2-0 victory over the San Jose Sharks. They highlight Colten Ellis’ impressive 23 save shutout performance, and emphasize how that is exactly what the team needs. He made a handful of big stops in a game where the team plays well overall. This leads the guys to discuss what the next stretch of games will look like in net.
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00:00Let's start with last night's game. So, it was a shutout Colton Ellis game where everybody that has been nervous,
00:11not even nervous, just maybe down in the dumps about, okay, no hellebuck.
00:17Alright, I gotta roll forward with the goaltending that I've got for three years, at least the rest of this
00:24year, and I don't really trust it.
00:26And they were good defensively yesterday. They were, I thought, great once they were in their own end.
00:34Like, blocking shots and getting the puck out, scramble plays, like, around Ellis, I thought they were desperate and they
00:42were very good.
00:42I did think, and this I think should count for defense, especially in the first period, they could not stop
00:48turning the puck over.
00:49No.
00:50Not at all.
00:50Did Crevier have four in the first period?
00:53It was tough.
00:54Darlene had multiple. Power had the worst one of the night, I thought, in the first period.
00:59They could not stop handing the Sharks the puck over and over, at least in the first period.
01:05And ESPN had a stat yesterday during the first that it was the most shots on goal in a period
01:10in the NHL this year without a goal being scored.
01:14The first, it was a goalie show.
01:15Yeah, it was really, yeah.
01:17It was.
01:18But I thought they settled in after that.
01:19I agree.
01:20They found their way to a solid performance, and what happened last night is they won a goalie duel.
01:26And, like, how many people would have bet on that?
01:28It really was, though.
01:30Like, Askarov was great.
01:32Ellis made a few more big saves than he did, and it was really impressive.
01:38They had moments where they were scrambling around their own end, but I thought, overall, it was a good night
01:43in that department, and I thought they just dominated the Sharks in their end.
01:47Yes.
01:48They were so fast and looked so skilled.
01:51And, like, that was last year's team.
01:54And they said that probably five times on the broadcast, and I couldn't agree more with that.
01:59Yeah.
01:59They looked like they were back to what they were last season.
02:02A return to form.
02:03And that last night is, how many saves did Ellis make that if they go in, are you saying, like,
02:10yeah, tough one, like, not, can't really blame him on that.
02:14But he made, like, five of those saves.
02:16He made that huge one coming across the crease, the kick save.
02:19Right.
02:19There were two in the third.
02:21I mean, he was great last night.
02:23It was sloppy at times, but he played a hell of a hockey game.
02:26Yeah.
02:27You got a little bit of chaos, but you got to have a little bit, right?
02:30Like, there's the play where he, like, swats at the puck with one hand.
02:33It almost goes out of play.
02:35There's the one where he sticks with, oh, was it Mesa?
02:39He sticks with whoever, and it goes past the post.
02:42The puck comes back behind him.
02:44I think he maybe blocked the pass from behind the goal line that was going to come back out in
02:49front.
02:50Right.
02:50And there's, like, nine people in the crease.
02:53Mm-hmm.
02:53So we got a little bit of it.
02:55But for the most part, I don't know, he seemed pretty composed, I thought.
02:59He made, like you said, it's a great question.
03:01How many saves, where if they go in, do you go, well, that's a tough one.
03:08You know, you left Kiefer Sherwood wide open in the slot with three minutes to go, five minutes to go.
03:13If that goes in, it's defense.
03:15You can't let that happen.
03:16I think there's four of those, at least, that I can think of off the top of my head last
03:20night,
03:20that he stopped, that changed the game.
03:22And Askarov did the same thing, and the Sabres just stuck with it and got one by him.
03:26That Exelwiger rips one and fools him.
03:29Mm-hmm.
03:30And that was the difference of the game.
03:31It was a 1-0 game with an empty netter.
03:33Great effort by Benson on the empty netter.
03:35But that's a 1-0 hockey game that they won last night.
03:39Graff is wide open, backdoor, right?
03:41Yeah.
03:41There's nobody covering him.
03:42He's open.
03:43That is a goal.
03:44That's the one for me.
03:45So this is in the second period where Ellis throws the pad out on the goal line, makes
03:50the save.
03:51That's the play where if that goes in, and it's a backdoor tap-in, everyone in the world
03:59goes, well, you can't ask for a save there.
04:04And he made the save there.
04:05Yes.
04:06And the point is not, and this, of course, is an extension of the Lukanen conversation
04:11this year, where Lukanen pretty much in every game this year, he makes big saves, because
04:16you're going to get enough thrown at you that that's going to happen.
04:18He'll make three or four big saves in a game, and then the other two or three are going to
04:22go in.
04:23And it's not, well, did you make some big saves?
04:26Did you make all of them?
04:27Did you make most of them?
04:29How about all but one?
04:30All but two?
04:31If you stop five big saves, one's a breakaway, two are a two-on-one, another is a backdoor
04:38play, but you let three in that are like that.
04:41Then, sorry, that's not a good hockey game.
04:43Ellis, you stop all of them.
04:45When there were enough, it was a good defensive effort from the Sabres, but they were not the
04:492000 Devils last night.
04:51To me, how they've played all season long in that they play relatively through the course
04:56of the game well in their own end, but there are three or four times where they have a brain
05:01fart, and there's somebody wide open in a great chance to score a goal, and you need
05:07your goalie to make a save, and they got that last night, and what do you know?
05:10They won in regulation.
05:11Gaudet had a wide open one from the slot in the first period where he threw the blocker
05:15out and made the save.
05:16Yeah, he made all of them.
05:17And it's only 23 shots, so it actually surprised me that it only ended up being that much,
05:22because it was a lot in the first period.
05:24But I thought Ellis was fantastic.
05:25I think he absolutely deserves the right to start the next game.
05:29Yes.
05:30And if this is even close to a goalie rotation, then he should play the next game.
05:36Because, you know, one part of the Lukanen thing that has always drove me the most crazy
05:40is not even...
05:42It's less about him, and it's more about their treatment of him, and how he is held on a
05:47higher standard, or he is...
05:49Not even that.
05:50He's given a greater treatment than all the other goalies that have been around him for
05:56his entire Sabre career.
05:57Yep.
05:57And last night, if Lukanen had that game, it would not even be a question.
06:03He'd be playing the next game.
06:05Yeah.
06:06And Ellis, I would bet he plays the next game.
06:09I'm not sure, though.
06:11Yeah.
06:11And that has always been my biggest problem, is they're treated differently, when I don't
06:16really feel like they should be, because we don't know about Ellis.
06:21I think it's perfectly reasonable to think he's just as good of a goaltender in the NHL
06:25for the next five years as Lukanen's been for the last five years.
06:28Yeah.
06:28Which, by the way, is like a slightly below-average NHL goaltender.
06:31Sure.
06:31I think that's reasonable to expect from Ellis.
06:34I would like to see him in the next game.
06:36I think you have to ride...
06:37We talk about riding the hot hand.
06:38If they go to Lukanen after this performance, it's going to be frustrating, because then
06:44you look at the result that could lead.
06:46If he is letting in softballs, all of it and that, it's just going to get worse for him
06:51in that sense.
06:52So, I mean, I wouldn't be pushing that narrative.
06:55Well, the question I would have about goaltender for them, and what Lindy's going to do, after
06:59last night, and really how the season's gone so far.
07:02Lion is MIA.
07:04Like, just...
07:04Yeah.
07:05That's...
07:05That's...
07:06Totally...
07:06He had a setback, and it's been over.
07:09I don't know when I'm going to see him.
07:10Right.
07:10He hasn't been on the ice.
07:11Could be Christmas.
07:12It's about to be November.
07:14Right.
07:14So, yeah.
07:15I think you're riding with those two right now.
07:17We have no idea.
07:18So, I want to know, and I want to know what they want.
07:21What do they want to have happen if the goalie duo, for a long stretch here, is going to
07:29be Lukanen and Ellis?
07:31Because what we've seen so far is more of a traditional 1-2, where Lukanen is the 1, Ellis
07:40is the 2, and if Lukanen is playing well, he gets that game, and he gets the next game,
07:45and he gets the game after that.
07:46And basically, he gets the net until he's either tired, and they need him to get a
07:50break, or he has a stinker that's so bad that they kind of have to turn to the other
07:55guy.
07:57And when Ellis has a great game, like, good for you, maybe we'll get you back in there
08:02soon, but this is still Lukanen's net, and he's going to get back in there.
08:06Is it that?
08:07Is that what they want?
08:09Do they trust Ellis enough to have it be more than that?
08:13Which would be last year, where both Lukanen and Lyon would play great, and there were
08:20times where they would take the net for themselves.
08:23Usually, though, that was when one of them was dealing with an injury.
08:27Right.
08:27Otherwise, when both guys were healthy last year, when both Lyon and Lukanen were healthy,
08:32and they had a great goalie season, the best goalie season they've had in years, they rotated.
08:37Even when they played well, for the most part, they rotated.
08:41It was back and forth, back and forth.
08:43I mean, you can look at long stretches of the regular season, where they were winning
08:48games.
08:48And it was Lukanen, Lyon, Lukanen, Lyon.
08:51I mean, look from the second big win streak they had.
08:55They had a 10-game win streak in December, and then they had a, I think it was an 8
08:58-game
08:58win streak in February.
09:00One of those games was the Tampa game, 8-7.
09:02And in that stretch, where they won 8 games in a row, it went Lukanen-Lyon, Lukanen-Lyon,
09:08Lukanen-Lyon, Lukanen-Lyon, Lukanen-Lyon, and continuing on more wins, Lukanen-Lyon.
09:12They went every other for like a 25-game stretch, it looks like, or something close to that.
09:18And are they open to that with Ellis?
09:22Where, alright, you know what?
09:23You've earned the Lyon treatment from a year ago, where it's 50-50, and you're having
09:30a good enough season, Lukanen's having a down enough season, that this is a true 1-A-1-B
09:35goalie split, not 1-2, and we're going back to a rotation.
09:40I feel like, and I would even say this about Ellis, because he's such an unknown, and there
09:44are chaotic moments still.
09:46Yeah.
09:47I wouldn't say that a good plan is, ride Ellis, he's your number one, he plays all the
09:52games.
09:53No.
09:53No, not even close.
09:54For them to be successful in goal, with these goalies, I think you have to have two guys
10:01playing, and playing well, and it has to be a rotation.
10:04I agree with that.
10:05I think you, yeah, I don't think that either one of these guys, Ellis, it could happen,
10:11but it is very distant in the realm of possibility to me, that he is a guy that now suddenly
10:17is
10:17going to play 7 out of every 10, and that's going to be the plan now.
10:21That doesn't seem super realistic to me, but what could be realistic is much closer to
10:26realistic, is he plays one out of every two, and now he's a guy that can give Lucanen maybe
10:33that support, that guy to go to, that he tends to play better with.
10:39He's always been better when there's a guy sort of nipping at his heels, and if Ellis can do that
10:45and provide rest, that's really valuable.
10:48I think we saw Lucanen play 8 of 10 to start, right?
10:52That was tough, I think.
10:53I don't know that that's something we're all interested in seeing that much of, where this, if you want to
11:00go, like you said,
11:01last year's plan with Lucanen and Lyon, that could work for me, and that is the kind of thing that
11:07that's how you return to the three-goalie rotation
11:11as close as you can get without the third guy yet, and I'd be interested to see how that goes.
11:17Since last year, 44 games for Lucanen, 20 games for Ellis, this is not including playoffs, by the way, they're
11:23statistically the same goaltender.
11:25Goal save above expected, I'm doing it per 60 because they didn't play the same amount of games, it's .1.
11:32Just above, a tick above average, Lucanen's season so far has brought him down, save percentage is .903 to .901,
11:38like all the other numbers you look at, they're almost identical, and that's 20 games for Ellis, it's 44 games
11:43for Lucanen,
11:44so bigger sample size there for UPL, and by the way, that's with Ellis being a rookie, never played in
11:50the NHL,
11:51with a weird schedule where he's in and out, or he doesn't play for a month and then he's in,
11:55and statistically they're the same exact goaltender since last October.
11:59So, I'm just asking for the same treatment between the two, and if it's the same treatment, then I guess
12:05that's,
12:07I guess, I wouldn't be upset, although it's going to be tough to know this answer before Saturday, right?
12:13If you told me right now, this is the beginning of the rotation, they're going to go back and forth,
12:20and Lucanen plays on Thursday, but you tell me Ellis is going to play on Saturday,
12:27then I'm going to, I think I'm going to be like, okay, I'm good with that.
12:32I think you want to get to a rotation, you want to get to an every other, so if you
12:35want to start that right now,
12:37then I'm good, but you better play Ellis on Saturday, and also I'm not sure we'll know,
12:42going into Thursday, if Lucanen starts, that we're going to get Ellis on Saturday,
12:47which might cause a minor meltdown for a lot of fans, right?
12:51It would definitely cause that.
12:52Yes, it would absolutely cause that, yes.
12:54Without question.
12:55I wouldn't be surprised if it happens, though.
12:57I would go back to Ellis, but I wouldn't be shocked if they go to Lucanenen.
13:01I mean, also, in the Florida game, you think how quick they were to yank Ellis out of that?
13:06The treatment, as you're mentioning, all signs kind of point to, as much as we wouldn't want it,
13:12them going back to Lucanenen on Thursday.
13:13Really think about, it is kind of incredible that that happened.
13:20I'm in the arena, and Ellis lets in two through the legs, low on the ice,
13:26bad goals to give up, but it was two in half a game, and he gets yanked,
13:33and I remember thinking right in the moment, as many probably were, like, wow.
13:37Yeah.
13:38He's getting pulled?
13:40It's two goals in, like, almost 30 minutes of hockey.
13:44That's not that bad.
13:46They were bad goals to give up, but that's not a lot.
13:49Okay.
13:50Yanked.
13:50And there were the boos when Lucanenen came out on the ice, and then Lucanenen played great the rest of
13:54that game.
13:55But Ellis, I'm thinking in the moment, that's pretty harsh.
14:00Yeah.
14:00Two goals in half a game, and you're pulled.
14:02Doubly harsh.
14:04He doesn't play for over two weeks after that.
14:06No, he got, like, benched.
14:08Yeah.
14:08So, yeah, to your point and my point, it's the same thing.
14:12Like, the treatment has just been different, and I think he's, last night's start, I think he's earned the right
14:18to,
14:19let's start seeing them be treated equally and see if that ends up working for you.
14:24Do we see rotation on a game basis?
14:26Do we see a plays for a period and a half, gets pulled, the other one goes in for a
14:30period and a half?
14:31You get first and second period.
14:33You get third period.
14:33I think goalies would want to fight you.
14:36That's, you're going to get goalie union strike is what's going to happen there.
14:40Well, overall, they were a dominant team last night.
14:45Yes, they were.
14:46Like, expected goals percentage, it was their second best game of the season, only behind Minnesota.
14:50Their expected goals total was 5.1, which was the highest in a game this year for them.
14:55They generated a million chances.
14:58Yeah, they were great in the Ozone.
14:59I don't know how to feel about that, because I think that's their best trait.
15:04It's why yesterday I asked the question, how are they even .500?
15:10Everything that's going wrong seems to be going wrong.
15:12Power plays bad, penalty kills bad, defense, you know, there are some numbers that show it's not as bad as
15:17we think,
15:17but with my eyes, it doesn't look great overall.
15:21The goaltending's been terrible.
15:23Tage isn't looking great even.
15:25You know, Doan, Norris, McLeod, you've got these veterans that aren't doing anything.
15:28The rookies are like, eh, what's going well?
15:31How are they .500?
15:32And I think the right answer to that has been, they still are the better team at 5-on-5.
15:38They still carry play more often than their opponent.
15:42They get more chances than their opponent.
15:44And even though they don't finish, that has been enough for them to be .500.
15:51And I don't know how to feel about last night, because there's no argument.
15:54They were better than the Sharks.
15:56They are a better team than the Sharks are.
15:58The Sharks, man, I don't know if people knew this going into that game.
16:02That's, I think that's the worst blue line in hockey.
16:04It's so bad.
16:06It's overpaid.
16:06It's comical.
16:07They got desperate because they wanted Byram.
16:10They didn't make the trade with the Sabres.
16:11They went out, they overpaid to get Truba and Darnell Nurse and Kesselring, who they
16:16didn't only trade for, but they paid him.
16:19And they got all these big, slow defensemen back there that can't move the puck.
16:23And they're allowing as many chances, way more than the Sabres are this year.
16:26Yeah.
16:27Like, they're one of the worst defensive teams in the league.
16:30And I don't know if people knew that going into the game last night, but you saw it.
16:34Right?
16:34The Sabres generating a million chances.
16:37Should I feel good about that, or should I feel like, this team still can't finish?
16:41I think you should absolutely feel good about that.
16:45Finishing is not, I don't think that this team is going to have a consistent finishing
16:50problem.
16:50I think that right now they're probably thinking about it a lot, and there's a lot of tension
16:55and a lot of guys gripping sticks really hard.
16:58And if you're generating that many chances, you average that out over a year, you're going
17:03to score more than they have.
17:05I would not be concerned at all about it.
17:07I would feel great that they are generating the amount that they are, because at some
17:13point that luck will turn, and you'll start scoring more than you should.
17:16And then what's going to happen?
17:18You're going to score six goals a game.
17:20If they continue to play like this, that is totally within the realm of possibility.
17:24That they get hot, and all of a sudden they score in a stretch of games, they score it
17:29six goals a game, five goals a game.
17:31And they just start ripping off wins.
17:33Because you generate like this in the NHL consistently, it's math.
17:39It averages out.
17:40These guys are not, they have shooters.
17:43Tage can finish.
17:44Oslin can finish.
17:45Benson's got hands.
17:46He can't shoot the puck that well.
17:48But he's smart enough to know how to score goals.
17:50These guys will come around, I think.
17:53And if they continue to create as much as they are now and that happens, you're going to
17:57be in a really good spot offensively.
17:59That's been my question, is that list there, even a couple of guys on that list, how many
18:05do I feel like I know are, you know, this is just a slow start, and this guy's a goal
18:12scorer, and guys have low shooting percentage stretches all the time, and hot and cold.
18:19Like, Doan is a guy I think about that for.
18:21Like, the Doan is going to, he'll get hot at some point.
18:25And, you know, you'd like to see that sooner rather than later, but he scored goals last
18:31year.
18:31He finished on chances.
18:33I think him, you can count on.
18:36Like, that comes around.
18:37Yeah.
18:39Even Oslin.
18:40Oslin, I would, I think it's true of him.
18:43But I don't have a lot of sample there.
18:46And then I've got, like, McLeod is not going to come around as a goal scorer.
18:52No, I don't think so.
18:52Right?
18:52Like, that's not his game.
18:54Norris should.
18:56Norris should.
18:57But will Norris?
18:59That's a good question.
19:00I thought he played his best game last night.
19:02Yeah.
19:02He didn't do anything production-wise, but I thought he was good.
19:05The guys I feel confident in coming around in that department, I think Tage will go up in
19:11that department, I think Doan will go up in that department, and I think Zucker, he's
19:18only played three games, he'll be a part of that.
19:20That's goals.
19:21He was great last night.
19:22He was.
19:23So, yeah, I think you've got enough guys that it should happen with, and then I just need,
19:30like, can two of Norris, Helen Use, Oslin, Benson, maybe there's another guy, Kulik.
19:39Kulik.
19:39Can two of those guys start doing it and getting hot?
19:43Right.
19:43Because that probably then would be enough.
19:47And I would tell you, I've got confidence that two of those guys will eventually get
19:51hot.
19:52And with the amount that they're generating, that will end up being, I think they will
19:56end up being a potent offense.
19:58I was stunned that the Norris-McLeod-Zucker line played as well as they did last night.
20:01I thought they were good.
20:02I love the lines.
20:03I love the change-up and the risk of, like, oh, we break up the best line and try to
20:07get
20:07two lines going, though it's a, we need to write it in stone.
20:11Whatever line Zach Benson plays on is going to work.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Yeah.
20:15It's just a rule.
20:16And last night, I thought it was the best night a Tage line had all season.
20:20Agreed.
20:21Um, my, my thought yesterday was, well, you're, you're piling up two lines to look good.
20:27And then you've got Norris and McLeod in the same line.
20:30Don't think that's going to go well.
20:32And it went well.
20:33It went great.
20:33They were, they were all over the net the whole night.
20:36Zucker was good with them.
20:37Um, that was the, I thought it was maybe the best game Norris and McLeod have played
20:41all season.
20:41100%.
20:42And Lindy said yesterday too, they, when they jumbled up the lines like this in the playoffs,
20:46they went and scored a ton of points after doing it.
20:48So for them to put up a good game after doing it like this, I mean, I practice, they practice
20:53what they preached and it worked.
20:54Sabres beat the Sharks to nothing.
20:57Benson, a great empty net goal, by the way.
20:59Yeah.
20:59Really good.
20:59That was awesome.
21:00He was awesome last night.
21:01I thought Benson specifically was really, really impressive.
21:04Yep.
21:05803 05 50 is the phone number.
21:08Colton Ellis, Colton chaos, shutout 23 saves.
21:12Sabres beat the Sharks 5, 4 and 3 on the season.
21:16They next play in Anaheim after dark, 10 o'clock tomorrow night.
21:22Uh, and then it's the Kings on Saturday.
21:26803 05 50 is the phone number.
21:28If you've got a thought on the, uh, the goalie rotation or what you saw from Ellis last night,
21:32if you're waking up early with us, maybe I saw a couple of people in the chat did the,
21:36uh, did the Owen plan to sleeps last night and ever, it was only two people.
21:42I think I saw it did it that they were both like, yeah, it worked.
21:45So maybe this is a new, uh, we've, we've stumbled on something here.
21:50Um, other things to get to, we will get to bills and Ravens.
21:53Also, there's a clip circulating.
21:55I saw about Nicholas Cage playing John Madden.
21:59Oh, is that going to be part of a hot or cold?
22:02It absolutely is going to be.
22:03All right.
22:03So we'll save it for that.
22:05I can't believe they picked Nicholas Cage to play John Madden in a Madden movie.
22:09Um, so a lot of football to get to today as well.
22:12Jeremy and Joe Sal coming up at seven o'clock here on WGR.
22:15We'll see you next time.