- 51 minutes ago
The Congress held protests across India seeking Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar’s resignation and arrest amid reports of dissent within the Election Commission over the Special Intensive Revision. The show also examines the default bail granted to an American and six Ukrainians accused in a drone-training case, and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar’s remarks at the UN.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and a very warm welcome. You're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:05From Sadak to Sansad to Supreme Court, the opposition India bloc is now going all out to seek the Chief
00:14Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar's resignation
00:17after multiple media reports spoke of a rift among members of the Election Commission on the special intensive revision of
00:26the electoral list process.
00:28The Congress Party took their fight to the streets today. And look at those images on your television screen.
00:34Protesters, Congress Party workers, they protested against the Election Commission, outside the Election Commission office in the national capital.
00:43They demanded the CEC's, not just his removal, but also his arrest.
00:49There were protests across the country. In Gohati, Congress Chief Gaurav Gogoi was detained during a protest demanding Gyanesh Kumar's
00:57resignation.
00:57In Lucknow, Congress workers demonstrated outside the party office. They planned a march towards the State Election Commission.
01:03In Patna, police used water cannons to disperse Congress workers.
01:07In Bhopal, which Congress demonstrated over alleged irregularities linked to the functioning of the Election Commission and the SIR process.
01:16In Bengaluru, the Karnadaka Congress filed a police complaint against Gyanesh Kumar seeking legal action over allegations regarding voters' right
01:25and the electoral rolls.
01:27In Chandigarh, the Punjab Congress announced a march towards the Election Commission office.
01:32In Kolkata, Congress workers protested as part of their nationwide protest plan.
01:37There were protests in Shimla, where there were protests outside the State Election Commission office.
01:42In Dehradun, Congress workers marched towards the State Secretary, demanding the CEC's resignation.
01:48So, just look at that wide map of protests across by the Congress.
01:54In Eta Nagar, State Congress protested against the SIR exercise and then they demanded an independent investigation.
02:02In Srinagar, Congress emilies raised slogans.
02:04They displayed banners against Gyanesh Kumar inside the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly.
02:09But there's one aspect to these protests.
02:13The Congress led these protests, but the wider opposition bloc, the India bloc, they may be speaking in one voice
02:20on the challenges and the legal challenge to Gyanesh Kumar,
02:25but the street campaign has exposed perhaps differences in how partners are choosing to protest.
02:31The R.J.D., for example, they have announced a separate protest across Bihar.
02:36Mamata Banerjee's Trimur Congress, again not a part of the Congress protest.
02:40Party MP Mahua Moitra took part in a different protest in Delhi's Jantar Mantar.
02:45Several other India bloc members and partners, Samajwadi Party, JMM, NCPSP,
02:51National Conference, the Arm Admi Party, opposition, they carried out separate protests or did not join these protests.
03:00And that raises a larger question, even for the opposition.
03:05Rahul Gandhi says the BJP is winning because of vote chori.
03:09But is the entire opposition on the same page, on the strategy to take on the BJP?
03:15Will they take on the BJP together or separately?
03:18Because when they take on the BJP separately, look at the results.
03:23Take Delhi, for example.
03:24Congress and the Arm Admi Party, they fought 2024 Lok Sabha elections together,
03:29but then went their separate ways in assembly elections.
03:31In 13 constituencies, the Congress vote was larger than the BJP's winning margin over the Arm Admi Party.
03:39Take, for example, the New Delhi seat.
03:41Arvind Kejriwa lost by 4,089 votes.
03:44The Congress polled 4,568 votes.
03:48In Jankora, Manish Sosodhiyal lost by just 675 votes.
03:54The Congress, of course, polled 7,350 votes.
03:57In both seats, our Congress vote was higher than the BJP tally had they come together.
04:04Then, Haryana 2024.
04:06The Congress and the Arm Admi Party again fought separately.
04:10The BJP returned to power.
04:12In Dabwali, for example, the Congress lost by 610 votes.
04:17The Arm Admi Party got more than 6,600 votes.
04:21Again, in Assange, Congress lost by 2,306 votes.
04:26The Arm Admi Party got 4,290 votes.
04:30In Uchana Kalaan, the BJP won by just 32 votes.
04:34The Arm Admi Party got more than 2,500, about 2,500 votes.
04:39In Rania, Congress lost by 4,191 votes.
04:43The Arm Admi Party polled about 4,700 votes.
04:47Let's take you to another state.
04:49Let's take you to Bihar.
04:51Bihar again had a similar story.
04:53The Congress and the RJD, part of the Mahagadbandhan, but the partners ended up in what was described as friendly
05:01fight.
05:02Friendly direct fight in 11 seats.
05:05The alliance reduced to mere 35 seats.
05:09The NDA, they went past 200, massively for the NDA in Bihar.
05:15West Bengal, TMC and the TIA Congress fought separately.
05:19The BJP won 207 seats.
05:22TMC 80, Congress 2 seats.
05:25From the impeachment push to the Supreme Court petition and now from Parliament to the streets,
05:32the battle over Gyanesh Kumar is escalating.
05:35But the big question is, will the opposition fight together or fight for the same vote tank and separately?
05:44Is the opposition unity only on paper?
05:47Our political bureau gets you our top story on India First.
06:02The India bloc has upped the ante against Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar,
06:06following explosive claims made in a series of media reports.
06:10A strategy has been drawn up for sunset.
06:12But before taking the battle to Parliament, the opposition has taken it to the Sadak.
06:17Congress workers across the country hit the streets against Gyanesh Kumar, demanding his removal and arrest.
06:24The protests spread across the country, with Congress workers taking to the streets in Delhi, Bengaluru, Jammu, Lucknow and Chandigarh.
06:32Protests were also held in Gauhati, Bhopal and Shimla, as the Congress took its fight against Gyanesh Kumar to the
06:38streets.
06:38They marched towards Election Commission officers, raised slogans, burnt effigies and confronted the police.
06:45On the streets in the national capital, seeking action against Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar.
06:52And all these youth Congress Karekartas at mass from the IYC headquarters and were heading towards the Jantar Mantar Road,
07:01but they have been stopped by Delhi police.
07:03Well, here in Kolkata, right outside the Calcutta University, Congress workers have gathered.
07:08You can see in large numbers, because a protest call has been given across the country, demanding the arrest of
07:14Gyanesh Kumar.
07:15You can see with posters and placards in their hand, they are saying,
07:18we demand the immediate arrest of CEC's Shri Gyanesh Kumar.
07:21As the Election Commissioners come under Scanner, today the Punjab Congress is holding a vociferous protest against the Election Commissioners,
07:28especially the Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar.
07:31And here you can see the affidavit of Gyanesh Kumar is also being burnt by the Congress workers.
07:37They want to march towards the Election Commission office in Chandigarh.
07:40Gyanesh Kumar, Gyanesh Kumar!
07:43The protest came after the Congress called for nationwide demonstrations, demanding action against Gyanesh Kumar.
07:49Now it is very clear, 13 crore voters have been deleted.
07:53This is a lame excuse, and the BJP should stop making lame excuses.
07:58If they are meddling with our elections, and if their leadership is making the Election Commission do this,
08:06then it is an act of treason and they should be aware of it.
08:09India Bloc allies TMC and RJD also protested, but separately.
08:14Several other partners like the JMM, DVK, National Conference have chosen to stay away altogether.
08:19But simultaneously, the opposition is preparing for a legal fight as well.
08:25A petition has been filed in the Supreme Court against the CEC.
08:30The petition challenges decisions linked to the Special Intensive Revision of Electoral Rolls
08:34and seeks the declaration as illegal.
08:37It also seeks criminal prosecution of Gyanesh Kumar and other officials,
08:41an independent probe into the electoral roll exercise and the restoration of the original Statutory Form 6.
08:47But the BJP has launched a sharp counter-offensive,
08:50insisting that Gyanesh Kumar deserves the Padma Bhushan
08:53for removing Bangladesh infiltrators from the electoral process.
09:20The streets, the sunset and the Supreme Court.
09:22The political showdown over Gyanesh Kumar is far from over.
09:26With Amit Bhardwaj, Aseem Bassi and Indrajit Kundu,
09:30Bureau Report, India Today.
09:34So, the Congress Party led the charge on protests demanding the resignation of CEC Gyanesh Kumar.
09:40But was that larger opposition unity missing in action on ground?
09:45Mahua Moitra, for example, protested separately.
09:48RJD organized a protest, but that was also not with the Congress protest,
09:52but a separate protest, different venue, different time.
09:55Is there a larger message here?
09:58There is a common cause, but not the same route to achieve that common cause.
10:03Or is it also because, as some analysts argue,
10:06that opposition parties also do not want to cede ground in states to each other, even to their partners.
10:14So, how united is the opposition in their effort to take on Gyanesh Kumar?
10:19Joining me on India first is Amitabh Dubey, national spokesperson of the Congress Party.
10:24Siddharth Yadav, spokesperson of the BJP.
10:26Abbas Haider represents the Samajwadi Party on this broadcast.
10:30Rajat Sethi is a political analyst.
10:32Gentlemen, welcome.
10:34Amitabh, you want to go first to take on Gyanesh Kumar seeking his resignation.
10:39The Congress carried out protests almost across the country, but is there merit in the assessment
10:46that that larger opposition unity is missing on ground, at least for now?
10:58Well, the party decided, on the basis of the revelations that have obviously come out,
11:03to take this action immediately.
11:05Because, you know, when we delay action, people say, why is the Congress not on the streets?
11:08So, we decided it was a sufficiently important issue to take action.
11:11And we will bring in the allies, in principle, in agreement with us, all of their statements
11:16over the last many months and years, since this issue arose of vote jury.
11:21They have been very supportive and worked closely with the Congress Party.
11:24So, you will see coordinated action on the ground.
11:27The reason we moved quickly is because this is a very fundamental attack on the constitution.
11:32The electoral role is a basis of democracy.
11:34And when such serious questions are raised about it, and the needle of suspicion, clearly
11:40pointed not by us, but by the other election commissioners, points to the chief election
11:43commissioner, someone has to take this on and deal with it.
11:48Now, the chief election commissioner didn't just wake up one morning and say that, you know,
12:04in a very unusual manner, they sneaked in an amendment to the act to appoint the chief election commissioner.
12:12As you know, the August version did not have immunity for the chief election commissioner.
12:16In December, when they had suspended 141 opposition MPs, suddenly this immunity arose,
12:22and they pushed it through, no standing committee, nothing.
12:24So, this was clearly a well-thought-out conspiracy.
12:28And this is why we are, we see this as an attack on the constitution and on the democracy,
12:33not just by the chief election commissioner, but by Mr. Modi and Mr. Shah.
12:37Okay, so, you know, in your crosshairs are the CEC and the prime minister and the home minister,
12:44not the SIR process or not the SIR in principle.
12:49But let me bring in Siddharth Yadav to respond. Okay, give me a moment as we try and re-establish
12:54that link with Siddharth in just a moment. Let me also bring in Rajat into this conversation
13:00before I bring in Abbas for more Rajat. Opposition may not have protested together,
13:06but then opposition also carried out protests, whether in, you know, whether it was Mahua Moitra
13:12carrying out a protest or RJD in Bihar, separately, separate times, separate venue,
13:16but united in the demand for action against the CEC. Do you look at it as opposition disunity
13:23or the Congress just being quick off the block, capitalized on the issue, the others will join in?
13:30I think, you know, the India Alliance and the way they have been functioning for the past
13:34several months and years now has followed a very similar pattern wherein the Congress strongly
13:42believes about certain issues in certain states and tries to take the lead. Then in those states,
13:48its own alliance partners tend to, you know, disagree with. And then we see all the tamasha
13:54that happens. I mean, in Bihar election Congress unilaterally went ahead with this as a central issue.
13:59Then Rahul Gandhi went out of country for a break. And by the time he was back, it was already
14:05too late.
14:05And he still wanted to rekindle that issue. But by then, Tejasvi Adha wasn't fully on board.
14:10Similarly, in West Bengal, in West Bengal, while Mamda Banerjee was constantly trying to say that
14:16election, this vote chori is a central issue, but Congress did not make that an issue over there.
14:21Similarly, we see that this issue, while it is much more vocal in terms of protest in North India,
14:28South India did not see those kinds of protests, especially after DMK lost the election and Congress
14:34party would certainly not join stage with the DMK party. So there will be contradictions. But I still
14:40feel that opposition is doing what their swadharma is. Their swadharma clearly say that they need to
14:45come out and protest. There might be rational behind it. It might be political. But whatever it is,
14:51it is well within their right to go out and protest when they are doing so.
14:54Absolutely. So far, they have gone to the Supreme Court, I believe, a couple of times. But the Supreme
15:00Court, they could not establish a case wherein they could go out and prove that, yes, there has
15:05been a systemic so-called chori of the election. And that is more of a political rhetoric devoid of
15:12facts. And that has to be established if you want to carry forward. So vote chori, according to you,
15:16vote chori you're saying is just political rhetoric. The opposition, they need to come together. They
15:22have at times. But are they united on the larger issue? Perhaps, yes. Abbas Haidar, the Samajwadi
15:30party supports action against the CEC. Akhilesh Adhav actually seeks intervention of the Supreme Court.
15:35But is there merit in the analysis that the opposition blocked the entire India alliance is
15:41not coming together for a joint nationwide protest? So is this just a coordination issue within the alliance?
15:49Well, I believe that the resentment against the Chief Election Commissioner, Mr. Gyanesh Kumar,
15:55is not just limited to the India Bloc, you know, India Bloc parties, but also to the NDA parties,
16:00like Chirak Paswan, Upain Kushwaha, they have also, you know, spoken openly about against Mr. Gyanesh Kumar.
16:07So one thing is very clear. See, all the opposition parties are doing a coordinated effort. Yesterday,
16:14Akhilesh Adhav Ji was going through a yatra, he was taking a yatra in Uttar Pradesh, and he has spoken
16:19about it in length. And certainly, we will, we are different political outfit, we will come up with
16:25different, different strategies. And we are not going to exhaust our resources at once. Don't worry about
16:30that. But we are going to take it a long way. No, I am not worried. I am only reporting.
16:34Yeah, yeah. So, see, basically, we have seen how Section 18 of the CEC Act, it clearly says that
16:43all the decision must be unanimous. And if not unanimous, there must be majority decision. Similarly,
16:50we have, my friend from Congress Party was talking about Section 16, which gives judicial immunity to
16:57Chief Election Commissioner of India, which is totally unconstitutional. See, if you see the case
17:02of Bengal, you are talking about vote chori, 22,21,000 out of 27 lakh voters, which have, which,
17:10whose names were removed from the electoral rolls, they have requested to reinstate their name. But
17:15only around 1600 something, you know, those numbers, those many voters were reinstated. So this is certainly
17:21vote chori. And this is not one particular state. I'm not talking about 30, 130 million voters across
17:27the country. So this is a very serious issue. This is the biggest threat to the democracy. And I
17:33believe this is a criminal case. Let me bring in Siddharth Yadav. Okay. Siddharth Yadav respond that the
17:39current protest truly establishes, as Abbas says, vote chori in the country, remove the voters, introduce,
17:47you know, immunity for the Chief Election Commissioner or the members of the Election
17:51Commission. You know, Amitabh Dubey said this was done when a large number of opposition MPs were
17:57not permitted to be in Parliament. So there isn't a wider debate. Why was this done if it isn't the
18:02ultimate aim of vote chori? Good evening, Gaurav, and good evening to all your viewers. Gaurav, I think this
18:09is the most difficult part to understand. Whatever has been reported in the national daily, how this is
18:14linked to vote chori in the country, I can't understand that. What linkage it has to whatever
18:19the Election Commission has to do, or what linkage it has to how elections have been conducted,
18:24I don't understand this. Things have been reported that while, you know, during the internal deliberations
18:31of the Election Commission, there were dissent notes or, you know, differing opinions that were recorded.
18:36But when the final decisions were taken, no formal dissent note has been recorded ever.
18:40So whatever decisions were taken, and as my learned friend was saying, according to Section 18,
18:45no decision could have been taken if the two Election Commissioners were against it. But you
18:50have to understand this in totality. The two Election Commissioners, which are being now celebrated by the
18:55opposition, the same two names of Mr. Sandhu and of Mr. Chawla were being taken, of Mr. Joshi,
19:02were being taken by Rahul Gandhi few months back, by being said that they are accused of vote chori.
19:08The same two people were being accused two months back, but today they are being celebrated.
19:13Why is this? When one claims that SIR happens and, you know, voter decision happens and it benefits the
19:20BJP, the actual data shows the opposite. In West Bengal, you have 20 seats where most number of
19:26voters were deleted. TNC won 13 of those seats. Congress won one. And we won only six.
19:33Okay. When 70 lakh voters were deleted from Tamil Nadu and we did not win that election.
19:3810 lakh voters were deleted from Kerala. We did not win that election. How does this inference come?
19:43What is this? How is this conclusion made that vote chori is happening with what is being reported
19:48from Election Commission? You know, since you've raised a direct point,
19:51Amitabh is responding to that very direct charge on how this inference of vote chori is being made,
19:58because the election commission officials are saying no decision. It has to be either unanimous or
20:06majority. Is there any evidence to suggest that the CEC rode roughshod over the other two? The two
20:14dissented, only he agreed, and yet it happened. Is there anything to prove that? BJP says,
20:19you're just relying on inferences and innuendos.
20:23So, so far we have some very credible news reports, which I would like to point out to your viewers,
20:29have not been denied by the ECI. They have just come up with a very vague statement. They have not
20:34specifically denied any of the things that were in the Indian Express report or in the couple of other
20:38news reports that have come out since then. What the election commissioners are believed to have said
20:44is things like the change to form six was illegal. It was unauthorized. The centralization of the ECI
20:52net, they have had very strong language about it. And because of that, they wrote to the cabinet
20:56secretary. Now we think that obviously the election commission should come clean about this. They should
21:00put forth the file notings. They should put forth all the information. And of course, we believe we have
21:05a political stand that the CEC should also resign because he's clearly very guilty. But this is,
21:10I'll just give you an example to respond to what Mr. Yadav said, is that the charges that the Congress
21:16Party and Rahul Gandhi have been making over the last one, one and a half years have all to do
21:21with
21:22the enrollment of voters, form six, deletion of voters, how the ERO process has been used, controlled,
21:30misused. And always we were told, no, no, the ERO, for instance, is in charge of the process of
21:35additional and addition and deletion. Now it turns out the ERO is not in charge. There's a centralized
21:40control. EROs send up requests clearing go on voters. Those voters are still excluded.
21:47Miraculously, 13 lakh West Bengal voters who were cleared for voting, suddenly someone appealed
21:53against them, despite what the ERO had said. And no one, it seems to be an illegal act according
21:58to what the news reports say. So, a lot of these questions have vindicated what the Congress
22:02Party has been raising for all of these months. So, Siddharth Yadav, since questions are repeatedly
22:07being raised and the clarification that comes from the election commission is being described as bland
22:13and perfunctory, should the CEC and the two ECs not hold a press conference and answer on facts,
22:22on merits of the case to satisfy the political parties?
22:28Gaurav, first of all, if you continue to repeatedly raise false acquisitions, they do not become true.
22:35That's point number one. Point number two, yes, CEC should respond. The election commission should
22:41respond. More and more answers should come out. There's no denial about it. But that's not the
22:45question. What they are seeking, they don't need direct answers. For instance, let me tell you, they have
22:52this apprehension that there was a dissent when decisions were taken in finality. Election
22:56commission is subject to RTI. My learner from the Congress Party can file an RTI and get to know
23:00that what formal dissent was noted on any of the 40 decisions that were taken in the 10 months. 14
23:06internal loads of disagreement over 10 months, and they want to sensationalize this and show this,
23:14oh, it was a big fiasco that was happening inside the election commission. I think it's just the
23:18opposite. It shows that how the institution is democratic. It shows how the institution welcomes,
23:24you know, dissent and disagreements. When they say that, you know, there were disagreements
23:28on calling form six illegal. I think they should move on from that and look at the 27th May hearing
23:34at this honorable Supreme Court where the election commission find a formal affidavit and the
23:38honorable Supreme Court head that the disclosure form attached with form six is approved under section
23:4521-3 of the Peoples of Representation Act. So we are way past that. The narrative building exercise
23:51that's happening around this that, you know, we have gotten some reports, some internal loads were
23:56circulated and henceforth, whatever we were saying from past two years, now all of it, you know,
24:00is suddenly true. I think Congress party should act more maturely. This is about the integrity of the
24:07election process, about the integrity of democracy and all remarks that are made by political parties
24:12should be responsible. Fair enough. And I will get all our, you know, panelists to weigh in on this.
24:19But let me come back to the issue. The Congress party, Amitabh, as you very rightly said, has repeatedly
24:24been raising this issue. But our alliance partners saying that, look, there are other issues that are
24:30far more critical. Take Bihar, for example. You know, Rahul Gandhi raised it. As Rajat said,
24:37he said, Rahul Gandhi raised it. Then he went overseas or elsewhere. Then he returned. He raised it
24:42again. And Tejasvi Adav wasn't on board. You've seen the results. Take Amitabh Dubey, for example,
24:48Uttar Pradesh. It's going to polls in 2027. There's talk of Samajwadi party and the Congress fighting
24:54together. But are they also on ground fighting each other? Samajwadi party started their yatra.
25:01And Abbas was talking about, you know, Akhilesh Adav not being available because he was a part of that
25:07yatra that started from Rai Bareli. Now, your party chief in the state is talking about Congress taking
25:12out a yatra from Kannauj, Saifai, Itava. Instead of this focus on, you know, on Rahul Gandhi. He's saying
25:20the focus is entirely on Rahul Gandhi. Sir, I want to understand, is this a united opposition to take on
25:26the BJP in Uttar Pradesh? So, that was a question to me, right?
25:31Yeah. Yeah. So, look, firstly, I want to remind you that in June 2026, all the opposition parties,
25:37I think there were 23 opposition parties, wrote to Chief Justice of India, Surikant, about this
25:43issue. So, we have been coordinating across the board. Now, in this state or that state,
25:49local politics does play a role. But on the issues, I think on this issue, there is unity. And you
25:55will
25:56see, because remember, these revelations are like two days old, 48 hours old. There is a process
26:01going on of consultation within the India Alliance. And I'm sure you will see a unified stance on this
26:06issue, because this is not deep politics as usual. This is a fundamental attack on the electoral role.
26:11So, we are all taking it very seriously. The TMC, of course, is going through a difficult phase right
26:16now because of the things that were done by the election commission in West Bengal. So, these things
26:22are all interrelated. So, I'm quite sure you will see united action. And my friend from the BJP was
26:27saying that the Congress party should use RTI because, you know, they've killed off RTI. So,
26:32that will take another six months, one year, one and a half years. So, in theory, that's a great
26:36suggestion. But in practice, this is a very fundamental burning issue. And it cannot be treated as business
26:41as usual. Okay. Siddharth, the opposition may be divided in states for having local reasons and
26:48different priorities. But just look at the situation politically. Congress, Aam Admi Party, TMC,
26:55Samajwadi Party, DMK may not be a part with Congress. But all of them have raised questions
27:01about the CEC and sought action against the CEC. Some of them demand his arrest. Some of them want
27:06action. They're all in agreement with the election commission. They must come together and explain
27:13what's been happening.
27:16Gaurav, it's very simple and very easy to debunk what they actually feel about each other. Forget
27:21what's your story. Ask Samajwadi Party, will they give 200 seats to Congress Party in Uttar Pradesh?
27:26Or is the performance of Congress Party so bad in Uttar Pradesh because of unpopularity of Rahul
27:34Gandhi or because of vote surety? All of them know that Rahul Gandhi is unpopular. When they had to
27:40find Bengal elections, TMC said Congress Party can't even fight 10 seats. So, is Congress Party's
27:46position in West Bengal because of vote surety or because of unpopularity of Rahul Gandhi? You can't
27:51be blaming others because you are unable to win the trust of the people. This is the reality. You have
27:56been out of power from Tamil Nadu from 1967, from Bihar from 1990, from 1990s, from Bengal,
28:03from a lot of states. When people are not electing you and we were not in power, Gaurav, then it
28:08was
28:08not Gyanesh Kumar who was the CEC then. It was not this election commission. There was no SIR.
28:13The people have stopped liking Congress Party and its policies. The basic reason is that you can't
28:19fulfill promises. You can't give a vision, but you want to blame the election commission and the
28:24electoral process of this country. This is wrong.
28:28Okay. I want to get Amitabh Dubey to respond since you've raised a specific point and then I'm coming
28:33to Rajat Sethi. But since a specific question has been raised, Mr. Dubey, you want to respond
28:37that even before the SIR process, the Congress was losing multiple states. They've won some
28:43states. They've lost some states. Why blame SIR or the CEC?
28:48So firstly, you know, as Rahul Gandhi said in his press conference, Congress over the decades has
28:52lost elections in the past as well. And we never blamed Vot Chori for that. Our allegation is
28:59specifically against the Modi Shah BJP. It's not even against Mr. Vajpayee's BJP. We've never
29:04accused Mr. Vajpayee's government of Vot Chori or the United Front government or any other previous
29:09government. So we are quite clear that this is an evidence-based claim. Like I said, we have
29:15had many press conferences. We have provided evidence. And what we are seeing right now is
29:20being borne out by what we have been saying. And one correction I'd like to make to Mr. Yadav's
29:26comment, we are not attacking the Election Commission. This is the Congress Party and the
29:30Election Commission reacting to the domination by the CEC in a completely patently illegal way. We
29:36are defending the Election Commission and the Election Commissioners and all the past Chief
29:40Election Commissioners who have spoken on this issue are standing united on the fact that
29:45this is illegal behavior and it needs to be seriously investigated.
29:48Rajat Sethi, but do facts bear out this situation on ground? The Congress has won elections
29:56back-to-back in the past. Mamata Banerji has won elections back-to-back in the past.
30:02So many examples across the country of winning elections back-to-back. Why is it that this
30:10allegation is being raised now? Is there reason for this allegation to be leveled now?
30:17It is pretty lame to say that anti-incumbency is a gospel truth, that it always necessarily has to
30:22happen. That just defies logic. And I think making that as a ground that BJP should lose because they
30:29won five years back and there is automatic anti-incumbency built in is a very lame logic.
30:35It does not cut ice and I believe this is where the Congress Party will keep on going to the
30:42wrong
30:42conclusions of why they are losing elections instead of course correcting, building the organization
30:48ground up. If they don't want to do the heavy lifting and they want to piggyback onto a story that
30:53they have created a make-believe world of their own and they believe that is a reality then good
30:59luck to them. But at the end of the day they will have to prove charges that they are putting
31:04up in
31:04press conferences. Press conferences is not a live courtroom wherein you are just trying to make one
31:10sided assertions and not hearing the other side. Courts are the best place to do that and had you
31:16taken certain issues to the court maybe the court would have given you some kind of a respite or some
31:20kind of a re-election in several places. In Bihar where the central issue made by Congress Party was
31:26vote chori after the election and during the 45 days period when you can actually go out and appeal
31:32absolutely no appeal whatsoever was made by the Congress Party because that is a difficult exercise.
31:38Shoot and scoot is very easy. You can come into a press conference, you can blame anybody,
31:42whatever you feel like and you can deflect the issue. Here the issue is not about which party is
31:47winning or losing. Please one second. Okay. One second. Which party loses or wins is a different
31:52story. Were there procedural lapses in EC is another story. And if there are procedural lapses
31:59that needs to be established, it needs to be vetted. If required the election commission has to come out
32:05clean. If required this whole process can also be challenged in the court several decisions that EC has
32:10gone. But that does not, does not Suomoto automatically sort of make the entire elections that have
32:15happened null and void in the imagination of the Congress Party. Fair enough. Since you've directly
32:21referred to Congress Party, Abbas, sorry, just give me 30 seconds. I'll get Mr. Dubey to respond and then
32:26Mr. Heather, I'm coming to you. Go ahead Amitab. No, I was also waiting to respond since some
32:32assertions were made against the BJP. Absolutely. I'll come to you. Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead,
32:37Mr. Dubey, go ahead. No, the point is that in Bihar specifically, we had a lot of
32:45our process going on, but they were not accepted. They were literally not accepting our forms. So,
32:51there was also violations going on on the ground. Many parties, we were an alliance, the CPI, ML,
32:57RJD, other people, they were all trying to get the amendments done, and it was not being accepted
33:02on the ground. The fact is that, you know, again, I'm reiterating, this is a different situation.
33:09And I believe that events have proven us right. So, when Raul Rani first raised the issue…
33:15Sir, shouldn't that be tested in a court of law? If there is an illegality, it has to be proven
33:20in a
33:21court of law, isn't it? Absolutely. And Abbas Haidar, when both the Congress and the
33:26opposition in different states are fighting, perhaps, for the same vote bank, doesn't it end
33:32up being advantage BJP? Take, for example, Bihar, since all of us were referring to Bihar,
33:3811 direct friendly fights, Haryana, Congress and the Arm Admi Party clashed, BJP benefited.
33:44Now, is that the real problem instead of this vote-chory that is being alleged? You know,
33:51shouldn't there be a wider opposition unity? And in your view, sir, why is that not happening?
33:57Well, first of all, let me answer the question you asked, Mr. Dubey, about
34:01Adharni Akhlesh Yadavji's yatra starting from Rai Bareilly. Since a few weeks back,
34:06Samajwadi Party legislator, Mr. Rahul Lodi, was humiliated by district administration of Rai Bareilly.
34:13That was the reason why the PDA yatra started from Rai Bareilly. And however, it has been ongoing.
34:19We have been fighting for the justice, for the honor of the Dalit community. And that was the prime
34:25reason why the yatra started from Rai Bareilly. The Samajwadi Party, Congress and all the members
34:30of the India Alliance, they are in sync. They are working together. They are closely coordinated.
34:35One thing. Second thing, see, but certainly they are different political outfit. They have their own
34:40aspiration. I would not deny that. And they may fight, you know, whatever suits the, you know,
34:46arithmetic of the region. Yeah, certainly. But they are united on a bigger picture. They are united
34:51with a vision that, you know, we want to protect the structure. We want to protect the…
34:56Sir, but doesn't that harm your bigger, wider fight?
35:00One more minute. I want to just give a very, an example in a very simple word. See, the CEC
35:07deprived 22
35:08lakh voters of their fundamental right of universal adult franchise in Bengal. And look,
35:13today, Samik Bhattacharya, the BJP president of West Bengal, he is not a small leader. He is the
35:18state president of West Bengal. You know, he have requested the government to give him
35:22Padma Bhushan. So, isn't it not quid pro quo? That is one question.
35:27Sir, okay, I'll get Siddharth Yadav to respond because Siddharth Yadav, no, but is it, he says it's because
35:33Bangladeshis were not permitted to vote. That's why there should be, and there was, there was no violence.
35:38That's why Padma Bhushan, oh, what's to that effect? We played out what he said, but Siddharth Yadav…
35:42Yes, he said, but this is certainly a case of quid pro quo.
35:46Okay, Siddharth Yadav, respond, sir.
35:49Now, Gaurav, first of all, to respond to my learned friend from the Congress party, he said that it's an
35:54evidence-backed claim that we are doing. We have all the evidences. Rahul Gandhi in the press conference
35:59also that day had said that we have all the proofs. If you have the proofs, go to the court.
36:03If you have the proofs,
36:04media stage, media mimicry is not the platform to do it. If you have any substantial proof,
36:11we are a democracy, a very vibrant one. We are a state, you know, we are a country run by
36:15the rule
36:16of law, and you can establish whatever you wish to. But unfortunate part is, whenever institutions
36:20or courts would invite you, you would not go there. That's point number one. Point number two,
36:25when you mention of Bihar, I think Bihar was one of the cases where the Honorable Supreme Court for the
36:29first time had left it over-ended and said that you bring me one person whose name is wrongfully
36:35deleted and we shall reopen the case. You could not bring in one person, one person to the Supreme
36:41Court to establish your case, but you still go on with the rhetoric of Bihar. That's most unfortunate.
36:46Number three, he said, oh, we are not fighting against the election commission. We are fighting
36:50with the election commission against the CEC. Three months back, you were naming all election
36:55commission commissioners, CEC, everybody. You were saying this is the most corrupt organization.
36:59Today, suddenly you have flipped the coin. This shows that how whatever suits your narrative,
37:04whatever suits your propaganda building, you would just climb onto that. Most unfortunate part,
37:10I think this is disservice to the nation, what Rahul Gandhi and Congress Party are doing.
37:13You are weakening the trust of India's democracy. You're weakening the trust of India's people on
37:19India's electoral structure. You know, this is disservice to the nation which will stop.
37:23And all the more reason, Rajat Sethi, the last 30 seconds I have on this part of the show,
37:27all the more reason why the CEC and the two other election commissioners, they need to come out
37:32and take questions and respond. Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.
37:38And that seemed to be done is the big issue here.
37:43Absolutely, Gaurav. Every passing day and the delay that is there is just going to build up more and
37:49more momentum. You know, and then it will become very hard. And as it has happened,
37:54that if you allow things to snowball, it just becomes the crisis grows. It's not like you can
37:58duck your head in the sand like a penguin and hope that, you know, the storm is going to pass
38:03away.
38:03It does not work like that. So therefore, come out. I'm pretty sure that if you are confident that
38:08you've run the commission pretty well, following all the norms and procedures, it will be very easy to
38:13for you to come up with all the paperwork that is out there and finish this controversy once and for
38:17all.
38:18But we'll be reporting all sides of this controversy as it develops. But I want to thank all our guests
38:23for joining me here on this part of India First. Many thanks for joining me. Now, while there are protests
38:30here, what's happening? What is the Prime Minister doing? Prime Minister Narendra Modi is connecting with
38:38Gen Z and how he hopped on to bhajan clubbing. And bhajan clubbing is really the trend now. Now,
38:48this program was on the 110th birth anniversary of the Jansang co-founder, Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyay.
38:56And what was the experience like for the Prime Minister? In his own words, spectacular. Listen in to the bhajan
39:05clubbing.
39:08if you will be a guest, this is for the Nara Museum.
39:13If you're a Gen Z, you will be a teacher. There are other things that you will be,
39:25I mean, you will come to our country from here. A Catholic Comic Commission and the
39:32village of the Nara Mdara. It's not the highest level of our country's
39:36Temporary. It's not the highest level of your country's country. It was a major level of your country.
39:36Oh, this is the end of the food and the first place.
39:42What were foreign mercenaries doing on Indian soil?
39:46And not one, not two, but six, or were they even more?
39:51There was a terror investigation, six months in custody, a charge sheet, but not under the terror law.
39:59And now, they get to get home, even if it's on bail for a limited time period.
40:04The Matthew Van Dyke case has taken a stunning legal turn.
40:10Van Dyke, the man you see on your television screen, is an American mercenary.
40:14He and six Ukrainian nationals, they were arrested by the National Investigation Agency on the 13th of March
40:22in a case that was linked to alleged drone warfare training camp across in Myanmar.
40:29Now, according to the NIA, the accused apparently entered Myanmar through the Mizoram border without valid travel documents.
40:37They underwent training in drone warfare, drone operations, drone assembly, and electronic jamming.
40:44And this training camp was for armed ethnic groups in Myanmar.
40:50But India was the route they took.
40:53The NIA claimed that consignments of drones and accessories from Europe were flown into India,
41:00delivered to individual groups in Mizoram.
41:02The case was initially registered under the very stringent sections of the Unlawful Activities Prevention Act or the UAPA.
41:10The NIA was given an extended 180-day period to complete their investigations into the alleged terror offences.
41:18Now, when the NIA filed its first charge sheet on the 8th of September,
41:23it invoked provisions of the Immigration and Foreigners Act and not the UAPA since that remained under investigation.
41:32The probe agency told the court that the UAPA investigations were still ongoing
41:37and that a supplementary charge sheet could be filed if further offences were established.
41:43And on the 18th of September, Van Dyke was granted default bail.
41:50Now, all the seven accused have been released from Tehar Jail.
41:54They've been permitted to travel back to their respective countries, but for one month,
41:59subject to conditions of continued cooperation with the investigations.
42:03The opposition Congress has hit out at the government.
42:07They've questioned how the UAPA provisions just disappeared from the first charge sheet and why
42:13an accused in what the NIA had earlier described as a drone training conspiracy
42:18had been permitted to leave India.
42:20Congress leader Jairam Ramesh has also alleged that this was American pressure.
42:25American pressure played out in the development.
42:27He sought answers from the government.
42:30Listen in.
42:32Two sets of rules for Indian youth lobbed in jails, different rule.
42:39For Van Dyke, different rule.
42:43Surrender Modi has surrendered again.
42:47The man with his team comes into our country as tourists,
42:52crosses the border from Mizoram to Myanmar,
42:54trains those terrorist militants there, comes back, gets arrested.
43:00Suddenly everything changes.
43:02Suddenly he's let free.
43:04Why?
43:06Why is he let off like this?
43:11Ask surrender Modi.
43:13How much will you surrender to America?
43:17This man is not coming back.
43:21So that was Congress MP Pawan Khera.
43:24The question is, did India buckle under US pressure, as is being alleged?
43:28Why would Matthew Van Dyke be released on default bail and permitted to leave the country?
43:35Professor Brahma Chilani is one of India's foremost voices on strategic affairs, former advisor to National Security Council.
43:41He joins us on the special broadcast.
43:44Sir, you heard Pawan Khera, Congress Party MP.
43:47The Congress alleges that this is surrender by the government to US pressure.
43:52Is there merit that while there are UAPA charges that are pending, a charge sheet could not be filed?
43:57So a default bail was granted on a very serious charge.
44:02Anti-India insurgency groups being supported.
44:05Indian border being crossed illegally.
44:07Really, did government buckle under pressure, as is being alleged, sir?
44:12Gaurav, India has a long record of dropping, diluting or rendering inconsequential criminal proceedings against foreign individuals or foreign entities.
44:28We have seen a pattern.
44:30This pattern goes back to the Bhopal gas tragedy.
44:33The Bhopal gas tragedy killed thousands and injured lots of people.
44:41Yet, no one was held accountable for that tragedy.
44:46We had the Purulia arms drop case, again, a similar pattern.
44:53Then, most recently, the Italian Marines case.
44:57Again, the two Italians were allowed to return to Italy after India came under pressure.
45:03Under successive Indian governments, India has surrendered to external pressure.
45:14There's no doubt about that.
45:16But it's been a pattern under successive governments.
45:20And I think the latest case has larger implications, especially for India's security in the Northeast, for India's relations with
45:31Myanmar.
45:31Because, according to the NIA, these seven individuals, who, according to the NIA, were involved in a foreign-sponsored proxy
45:46war against Myanmar, using India's Northeast as the staging ground.
45:53And that could be detrimental to our security interests also, if terrorists have access to drones.
46:01No, very much.
46:02Look at this.
46:04According to the NIA, this was not the first time they entered India illegally and transferred drones to Myanmar.
46:11They had done that on two previous occasions since 2024.
46:15So, they were part of an international network, according to the NIA.
46:20And, in the latest case, they had actually smuggled into India a huge consignment, quote-unquote, a huge consignment of
46:30drones and radiative components.
46:33And then, taken that consignment to Myanmar, again, unlawfully.
46:39Now, they were initially accused of waging war against the Indian state.
46:45So, it's not just Myanmar.
46:48It was against India.
46:50And that's the reason why the premier anti-terrorism law, the UPA, Unlawful Activities Prevention Act, was invoked against them.
47:04But, there was an inkling of what was happening when, on September 8th, the UPA was dropped and only…
47:14So, while the government officially claims that UAP investigations, or at least that is what they claim, they are still
47:21ongoing.
47:22But, if UAP investigations are undergoing, can a UAP accused be permitted to leave the country following the intervention or
47:31when the U.S. ambassador raised this issue with Foreign Secretary Vikram Misri?
47:35And, of course, also raised, we are told, during Marco Rubio's visit to India, the shift from UAPA to lesser
47:41charges and then permission to leave India.
47:44Is that coincidence or is that pressure which is very visible?
47:48Well, it has been admitted by the U.S. government that Marco Rubio, during his India visit, raised this issue,
47:57and he raised this issue quite assertively.
48:02But, I think more important is this, that in Indian judicial system, when somebody is released on bail,
48:11especially somebody who is accused of serious criminal offences, the person is required to stay in India, you don't grant
48:22bail to a criminal accused and let him leave India.
48:27These seven men will not return to India.
48:32They have been deliberately let go free.
48:36Let's be clear on that.
48:38This case is dead.
48:39It's dead as a dodo.
48:41This case…
48:43Which is very sad, but I want to understand, you're saying that they will not come back to India.
48:47So, this month-long trip, NISA's, all aspects of the original probe, including possible UAPA elements and seized material,
48:56they claim that investigations are open.
48:59Default bail, they claim is a statutory right when six months or 180 days investigation window lapses.
49:07Travel abroad is discretionary.
49:10Should that discretion not have been applied to those who were earlier accused of waging war against India?
49:15And why should, anyways, Ukrainians and Americans enter our country, train people in drone operations and then go to Myanmar
49:22from our country?
49:22This just doesn't add up, sir.
49:25You know, you raise a fundamental question, Gaurav.
49:27The issue is this, that if you look at it in a larger context, in 2024, there was a regime
49:35change in Bangladesh, which Washington endorsed.
49:40Myanmar is the target of U.S. government, successive U.S. administrations have used sanctions and military aid to rebels
49:50to overthrow the military government in Myanmar.
49:55Now, these seven operatives, according to the NIA, were part of a larger international network that was training and arming
50:08Chin rebels in Myanmar with drones and other weapons.
50:13And the Chin rebels, according to the NIA, were providing aid to the Kuki rebels in Manipur.
50:21Yes, and which is very worrisome, the open flow of weapons into our country in Manipur is such a cause
50:28for grave concern, especially given that Kuki-Maitai fight that was happening there and free flow of people on either
50:35side, sir.
50:37Precisely. The Chin and the Kuki are ethnic cousins. In fact, they belong to the same ethnicity.
50:45And the reason why the ethnic conflict in Manipur has exacerbated is because the Chin rebels have been actively assisting
50:55the Kuki rebels.
50:56In fact, Chin rebels have entered Manipur, according to the government of India's account.
51:01And these seven operatives, the six Ukrainians and the American covert operative, he's inoperative of covert wars in Ukraine and
51:12the Middle East, including Libya.
51:14These seven were directly involved in arming the Chin rebels.
51:20In fact, just three weeks ago, on August 31st, the NIA expanded its case against the seven by accusing them
51:30of being involved in a drone attack on the Myanmar National Airlines plane, which was on the ground.
51:39Since you mentioned the Bhopal case, I'm just wondering, there was a quid pro quo that was alleged and that
51:46information came out much later.
51:48When Warren Addison, if I remember correctly, was permitted to leave, you know, there was politics at play.
51:55That information came out much later. It remains to be seen whether there's a quid pro quo even here.
52:00And Professor Chilani, that's something that perhaps you and I will discuss at a later date.
52:04There's breaking news that's coming in. The External Affairs Minister, Dr. S. Jai Shankar, he's hit back at a Pakistani
52:11journalist who attempted to question him on the issue of terrorism.
52:16Dr. Jai Shankar said, a terrorist country is asking me a question on terrorism or that question.
52:24And this remark came on the sidelines of the UNGA session in New York.
52:28Dr. Jai Shankar addressed the media following that inaugural meeting of the group of friends on safety and security of
52:35shipping and seafarers.
52:37During this briefing, a Pakistani reporter asked Dr. Jai Shankar,
52:42words to the effect, can you tell us your government, when will your government stop sponsoring terrorism or words to
52:50that effect in that terror country?
52:53And Dr. Jai Shankar, very rightly and aptly dismissed the remark, saying, a terrorist country is asking me that question.
53:04What a response. Listen.
53:30That is the only language a state sponsor of radical history.
53:36Islamist terror understands. Talk to them in the language they understand, whether it's an Operation Sindur or verbally.
53:46You just have to deliver these missiles to a state that sponsors radical Islamist terror.
53:52That is all I have for you on India First this evening.
53:54Many thanks for watching.