00:00Jayden Daniels not going to get surgery on the dislocated left elbow and he won't be placed on
00:06injured reserve. The reporting is that he is week to week and will be back soon. Dr. Harris Solomon
00:15joined us on the other the other day on the show and was very helpful in sort of laying out
00:20the
00:21possibilities. He was very clear he's not the doctor that looked at the imaging or had access
00:26to the damage or lack thereof of the elbow but based on him being a board certified orthopedic
00:34surgeon specializing in this area he was very helpful and I thought it would be helpful to have
00:40him back. So the first question is first of all I'm assuming you were not one of the specialists
00:48he saw because I think you would have told us that the other day. Yeah well I would have Kevin
00:54if I
00:54was allowed to but I know I am I have not been consulted I am not not on the team.
01:01Do you know
01:02any of the doctors that were? No I don't know that anybody does I mean I haven't heard from any
01:09colleagues but you know usually this is pretty confidential stuff and people try to keep it
01:15pretty numb um mum but um I don't know who he saw. So what do you think of the no
01:24surgery decision no
01:26injured reserve which means you know he's not going to be lost for four weeks I think there's you know
01:31a possibility he could be back as early as next week or the week after tell me what you think
01:37that
01:38the the orthopedic surgeons the doctors that had a chance to look at his elbow what do you think they
01:44saw?
01:46Yeah well I think that um they probably saw an MRI that did not show uh new damage or worsening
01:56damage
01:56in the elbow and uh given that situation and maybe after examining Jaden's elbow they they felt like
02:06uh hey this is uh maybe worth a try we can um try to put it in a brace and
02:14see if we can salvage
02:16the season or some of the season and um if that's not the case then we can do the reconstructive
02:23surgery later um and uh so I think it's good news that there's probably not significant more damage on
02:32the MRI which maybe leads them to be optimistic and think hey maybe we can maybe we can continue
02:38to treat this non-operatively either permanently or at least get through the season with a brace and
02:43consider surgery in the off season. Do you do you stick by what you said the other day by the
02:50way
02:50everybody has said the same thing but you were very helpful in sort of explaining that in addition
02:55to the Seattle game last year and the potential re-aggravation against Minnesota but the fact
03:01that he did dislocate his elbow it's not that he didn't dislocate his elbow against Dallas we know
03:06that he did that he is much more susceptible to it happening again now than he was after the first
03:14time
03:16oh we lost him okay let's get him back uh we will get Dr. Harris Solomon back somehow we lost
03:23him um so
03:25that first part of it that the MRI he believes probably showed no new damage no worsening damage
03:31uh and probably can roll up with the brace and try it from there um do we have him back
03:38I'm calling him one more time I think his uh his phone dropped out somehow okay let's hope we can
03:44get
03:44him back if not we'll try to get him get him back on later uh in the show um because
03:50I do want
03:51really to also get into the kind of brace that he thinks Jaden will wear and we had our Bobby
03:58in LA
03:59calling and he's done a ton of research on the braces and they're not what they were back when
04:04Kurt Warner threw one on some clunky brace and played with it uh a week after an elbow dislocation
04:12all right we lost you Dr. Solomon sorry about that but um I I think what I was asking was
04:18you know you still believe right that there is a vulnerability since he's had it now twice
04:24it's it's more likely that he'll have it happen again yeah I I still think that unfortunately Kevin but
04:33um uh and I don't know where I dropped that but um I'm encouraged that the doctors that were consulted
04:40uh I guess at least some of them maybe think that um there's uh a good chance that he can
04:47continue to
04:48play with the brace and um and not not have it dislocate again but I am concerned I went back
04:56and
04:56looked at the video of the injury against the Cowboys and it was really just uh he just tripped and
05:04tried
05:04to support his fall with his left hand it was not we're not talking high energy trauma or running down
05:11the field at 1920 miles an hour with a 280 pound defensive animal landing on you um so I'm concerned
05:18about the overall stability of the elbow given how kind of easy it popped out there but um they must
05:24like what they see and uh and so uh they probably are willing to give it a try and and
05:30see how it goes
05:31I mean is it possible that because it wasn't the the ladder you know the running it at high speed
05:38and
05:39having a 280 pound defensive end fall on him as he dislocated it that it is a you know proof
05:47that it is
05:48vulnerable and susceptible to it but at the same time it may not have been as damaged as it would
05:54have been in the other scenario I think that's exactly right Kevin I think it's it's both of those
06:01things it it concerns me about the inherent stability of that elbow right now or lack thereof
06:08but at the same time yeah this was not a high energy injury so I'm not surprised there's not a
06:13lot of
06:13additional damage what's a brace going to do tell us about the braces that are available for this kind of
06:21situation and what they'll do from a protective standpoint yeah the brace will be a hinged brace which
06:28means um literally it's uh it straps on with soft materials some sort of neoprene usually and uh
06:37and then it's got metallic or some sort of carbon fiber hinges on the on each side of the elbow
06:43to
06:45protect it from shifting or or dislocating and uh as I mentioned on Tuesday it the the hinge has
06:55parameters so you can set it so that the elbow will only move in a specific uh angles of range
07:03of motion
07:03and in the case of Jayden's elbow the vulnerability really is when the elbow is fully straight and full
07:11extension just like you can see on the video when he dislocated it so I suspect the brace will limit
07:18his
07:19range of motion in that elbow to maybe minus 30 degrees or even minus 45 degrees to even stop him
07:27from going into full extension now the downside is on a simple play like that where he gets stepped on
07:32coming out from under center and just needs to brace his fall he'd probably fall on the ground
07:38because he won't be able to straighten that elbow and the other arm has football but on the plus side
07:43if
07:43keeps his elbow in position that's uh worth worth it for sure yeah I you know I'm also thinking about
07:50handing the ball off with his left hand to a running back going to the right you know and one
07:57of those
07:58in you're a football fan and you're a skins fan one of those stretch sort of outside zone handoffs
08:03I guess they could use it as a he could probably pitch it but you're saying if if it is
08:08set at 30 to 45
08:10degrees he can't get full extension with the left arm right right I I think that's a good point and
08:18I think it might narrow the playbook a little bit in terms of what that elbow is safely able to
08:24do and
08:25and successfully able to do it's hard when you're of course an athlete at that level you you're used to
08:30your joints moving fully in the body parts and so you know they'll just have to kind of probably design
08:37plays around the new limitations just to try and keep it going and keep them safe
08:42how long I mean we talked about just if he were going to come back and play with a brace
08:48just the natural healing uh after last Sunday I think that there you know there's some discussion about
08:57a quicker return than maybe even last year remember when he sat for four weeks missed three games
09:04there was a bye week in there before he came back for the Minnesota game what is the healing process
09:10here could you could you see a situation where he returns next week or even two weeks from Sunday
09:16against the Giants yeah I think I think I could because as we spoke of a minute ago this was
09:26pretty low energy
09:27and uh definitely low energy compared to when he acutely dislocated it last season and so
09:34the soft tissue swelling will be less um in a in an odd sort of way the elbow is now
09:41more unstable so it
09:42kind of pops in and pops out more easily and it's less less traumatic uh to the soft tissues when
09:48it does that
09:49of course the downside is that makes it more more vulnerable to another uh dislocation or or sort of
09:58subluxation uh episode but uh yeah I mean this is a lower energy injury so so maybe he is ready
10:06quicker the the swelling goes down and uh they could see how he practices in the brace and try and
10:13simulate
10:13game play and make sure the elbow feels stable in the brace and give it a go all right last
10:21one and I
10:21appreciate you jumping on again uh a couple of days later but you know you've kind of described why
10:29the result is what the result is um and what they probably saw but just as simply as you can
10:37describe it
10:38what is the risk long term by him doing this versus surgery
10:46yeah I mean if he continues to sublux this elbow eventually and sublux is sort of a partial
10:54dislocation or or fully dislocate eventually you do start wearing down some of that bony anatomy like
11:01we talked about on Tuesday and potentially you can make the reconstruction more complicated
11:06or even make the reconstruction less successful overall um if they're willing to try this I assume
11:13that the specialists that they have seen feel comfortable with this plan and uh you know but I
11:20did hear Adam Peters say no decisions have been made yet I mean I feel like they probably got a
11:24couple of
11:25different opinions on on both sides of the coin uh that that was me reading between the lines listening to
11:31him talk but okay but I think you know the risk would be if if this keeps popping out it
11:37can it can
11:39compromise his long-term result and so I'm sure they will take that in consideration I suspect that
11:46if he tries to play and this happens yet again that will be the end of the season and and
11:52they will
11:54just move forward with some sort of surgery but um yeah I mean that that's the risk but I think
12:00it's
12:00good news that they're even contemplating this quick return which means uh the overall structure in
12:06there must look pretty good yeah I lied I got one more because if it were to happen again worst
12:12case
12:13I know you answered this the other day I'm pretty sure um but not I don't think after a third
12:19time
12:19uh what would the recovery look like timeline wise
12:25yeah at that point um ligament reconstruction with I would say a minimum uh three months before
12:34really football activities and a lot of rehab during during those first three months and regaining
12:40your range of motion after you do a ligament reconstruction on the elbow almost by design it's
12:46it's stiff you put these ligaments in tight you let them heal up and start to um scar in a
12:54little bit
12:54so then then the elbow is tight and then you spend time in therapy really loosening it up and getting
13:01back to full range of motion and so uh that's usually more like in the second and third month when
13:08the
13:08therapy starts getting more aggressive and uh you know for a word like professional football in terms of
13:16it's more than just range of motion and strength it's being able to take contact and fall on that
13:21elbow and so before taking contact I would think might be closer to a six month time frame all right
13:30then because uh yeah so what are we talking about here like if it happens again he has surgery and
13:36he's
13:36back for next year right yeah yeah I think that's safe to say yeah I don't think we risk next
13:44season
13:46thank you for this again uh Dr Harrison Solomon in Bethesda um board certified orthopedic surgeon
13:56specializing in hand upper extremity surgery um really appreciate it as always uh and I I hope I
14:05hope I don't have to reach out to you again but I have a feeling it might happen at some
14:10point thank you so
14:11much oh actually real quickly yes or no do you think even if he finishes the season they'd contemplate
14:17surgery at the end of the season anyway yes okay thank you uh talk to you soon uh Dr Harris
14:26Solomon
14:27uh
14:27uh
