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00:00This program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:38Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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03:46Good evening Trinidad and Tobago international audience and of course our brothers and sisters in Grenada.
03:51This is Beyond the Tape and I'm your host Whitney Husbands.
03:54We say good evening to you.
03:55It's the middle of the week so that means it's Legally Speaking Wednesday.
03:59It's time for us to talk legal, legal talk.
04:03Things that many of us may not understand but the gentleman who is always willing to join us and guide
04:08us and make us understand the law even better.
04:11The man who I believe every time he shows up it's like, how do you know all these things?
04:16How do you remember all these things?
04:17Are you able to cite without even going to check his phone or even going to check a book?
04:21Because he is that good.
04:23We have our tiniath law now also our director of PAC.
04:26So here with us, Mr. Ali, the lawyer that I love so much.
04:30I wouldn't lie.
04:32Well Whitney, thank you very much.
04:34And you know, your words are, you know, it has me shivering.
04:39Don't say that man.
04:40Yeah, yeah, and I know that it's coming from deep within, you know, and I'm happy, you know, for those
04:45kind comments.
04:46As I said before, it's an inspiration.
04:48And if there's one thing about you, you speak your mind and you speak open and frank.
04:52And I want to thank you very much for more than a warm welcome.
04:55I missed you.
04:57Well, I missed you as well.
04:58I was wondering whether you are warming up for this style.
05:01Well, I mean, yes, I am.
05:04But I know I honestly missed you.
05:05It is always a pleasure when you hear it because the passion that you have for law especially, even though
05:11that you are an officer as well.
05:13But for law, it's one that is intriguing.
05:15It makes others want to understand law more, even be an attorney like yourself.
05:20It is inspiring.
05:21Well, I've seen in recent times as well, you know, when there are legal questions, I see that you move
05:27immediately to your phone to do your research as well.
05:29So I've seen it within you, you know, somewhere within you.
05:31Yeah, you remember it told me to check and make sure.
05:33Yes, I would like you to do that.
05:34And next thing you know, in a couple of years' time, you know, probably, if not me, but others, probably
05:39saying to the judiciary, the panel saying, you know,
05:44if it pleases your Lordship, I'd like to present the petition, you know, with the husband.
05:47So you never know what could happen.
05:48Life is strange, you know.
05:49I've seen persons, you know, at different phases of their life, you know, they revert to different things.
05:56But, yeah, it's always a pleasure to join you on the program.
05:58And, yes, law is, in fact, a deep passion of mine.
06:02And, you know, I think it complements my law enforcement profession as well.
06:07And also where I sit as director of policy and community support because we are governed by the rule of
06:11law, Whitney.
06:11And as I always said, there's some rule that have both of us here this afternoon.
06:15Something is justifying our presence here this afternoon.
06:17So I want to thank you very much for that.
06:19Order.
06:19That's correct.
06:20And, you know, may God bless you to continue to do great things.
06:22And represent Trinidad and Tobago, you know, proudly.
06:25And also your family.
06:26You know, Jackie, thank you very much as well for the opportunity.
06:30And TV6 executive as well.
06:32And also the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service for, you know, for their support over the years.
06:37And their continued support.
06:38The citizenship of Trinidad and Tobago, most importantly.
06:41I know we may have met with some very, very sad news over the last couple of hours.
06:46Yes.
06:47You know, but it's too big.
06:48That's right.
06:48But I'm engaging you, you know, wherever you may be.
06:51You know, keep that faith.
06:52Stay strong.
06:53Stay focused.
06:54Conny to do your part.
06:55Conny to ensure that we have a healthy democracy.
06:58You know, and most importantly here, and I wish to say it in my introductory remarks.
07:02Let us assist one another to keep these things at a manageable level.
07:06Do not allow things to flare up to the extent that we may, you know, create a level of hate.
07:13You know, whether it be hate, hate speech, you know, conflict.
07:16You know, let us all play our role in managing.
07:18Be responsible.
07:19Yes, we can be passionate.
07:20We can be emotional.
07:21But let us ensure that we are balanced and separate in terms of what's happening.
07:25Because it's important for us to ensure that there's, you know, the preservation of the peace.
07:29And preservation of the peace, you know, I want to recognize all law enforcement agencies, support agencies,
07:34private security industries as well, who play a major role in the preservation of peace at its minimum.
07:41So, you know, Whitney, I'm here to support you and our beloved citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago in any way
07:45that I could.
07:46If I can't and I have to go back and do some research, well, I'll do that.
07:48Well, you're always open and you're direct when it comes to that.
07:52Yes.
07:52And we never stop learning, right?
07:53So that is how we move forward.
07:55Importantly.
07:55Yeah?
07:55And I will say this.
07:57I learn every day to be wise with my words.
07:59And you all could do that as well.
08:00Because every time you're here, you're always wise with your words.
08:03You have to.
08:03Because you never know where it could place you.
08:05And it is not in a good place sometimes.
08:07That's correct.
08:07As you said, the emotion takes over.
08:09That's correct.
08:09And a digital will.
08:11Mm-hmm.
08:11Can't take it back, right?
08:12When it's going and going.
08:13It's going.
08:14That's right.
08:14Yeah.
08:15And as you mentioned, the disturbing news.
08:16And I know this is sad because when I saw it, it was also disturbing for me.
08:20Yes.
08:20And it's when is this going to end?
08:22Now, we don't know the full details.
08:24But thus far, the information that received, according to the Trinidad Express, the spa owner, 64-year-old, killed in
08:30attack.
08:31Now, two women were gunned down during an attack at a beauty spa in Coover on Wednesday morning.
08:37Police have said that the woman, the owner, Kovita Diosarain, 55 of Freeport, and Cheryl Dixon, 64 of Coover.
08:45Now, Diosarain is the daughter of a sanitation truck contractor located in Freeport.
08:52The shooting occurred at approximately 9.20 a.m.
08:56According to police reports, a gunman dressed in a blue coverall entered the establishment and approached Dixon.
09:05The suspect reportedly questioned her about the vehicle she was driving before pointing a firearm at her and firing two
09:11shots.
09:12The gunman then proceeded into a room at the establishment where he confronted the 55-year-old owner.
09:19Moments later, two gunshots were heard.
09:22The suspect subsequently fled the establishment in an unknown direction.
09:27Police were told that the gunman was slim-built and dark-skinned.
09:31The circumstances surrounding the shooting are under investigation.
09:36Condolences going on to the family.
09:38They're very disturbing.
09:39When I saw the number of persons that was in that video that was on social media, I wasn't sure
09:46what was taking place.
09:47And then when I read more into what was happening, I couldn't believe it.
09:53You know, I'll say as well, you know, very, very touching.
09:59And, you know, while I'm not going to be prejudicial, but, you know, looking at our 50...
10:0464.
10:0454 and 64 thing it is?
10:0664, yes.
10:06Yeah, you know, two mature persons.
10:0855 and 64.
10:10Yeah, 55 and 64, two mature persons, you know, in a business establishment.
10:15Today being Wednesday, broad daylight as well.
10:19And what you have read for Trinidad and Tobago, very concerning.
10:22And I want to join with you in extending condolences to the family.
10:26Whitney, this is one that, you know, it's important for us to look at the victimology of these two individuals.
10:32You know, it would be interesting to see exactly who are these two individuals.
10:35And then I've got to try to decipher exactly what may be a motive or possible motive for what we
10:39see there.
10:40But, again, serious crime, the capital crime, very concerning in Trinidad and Tobago.
10:47I know that, you know, the law enforcement agencies and support agencies have been, you know, trying their very best.
10:54Even the parliament have been trying their best to bring the necessary legislation to be able to support the fight
11:00against crime and criminality.
11:02But, again, the person or persons who may be responsible for this double murder,
11:09those persons are somewhere in Trinidad and Tobago.
11:11And that is a really funny thing.
11:13That while we are speaking to the nation, I am certain that someone somewhere have some intelligence.
11:18So who may have been responsible for this?
11:20And I'm saying to you all that, let us find it within ourselves to be able to bring forward that
11:25intelligence and that information.
11:27And whether anonymously or persons who we may trust to bring that information forward.
11:32Regardless of the victimology of these two persons, these two persons are connected to our family.
11:37We'll be connected to families and even, who knows, maybe connected to young children who may be looking forward to
11:43their mother and their grandmother to come home.
11:45And, you know, sometimes let us look at it in that way so that we might be motivated to say,
11:49you know what, let me play in supporting the detection of this crime.
11:53And let us just not look at it and read it as another statistic or another report and say, well,
11:58you know, two shot and killed in the Kuwait area.
12:01It is very significant for us to rise.
12:03And, you know, from a law enforcement context, for every single rank support agencies, it's important for, you know, when
12:09these situations occur.
12:11Again, it should be a wake-up call to recognize how important the responsibility for the prevention of crime is
12:17concerned.
12:17And why I'm saying the prevention of crime, the persons who may be responsible for this, they are probably persons
12:24who may have grown up in areas where they may have been abused.
12:27They may have been neglected.
12:29I'm not giving them a defense, but it's important for us to invest in the young people as well.
12:33But what about persons who just like to kill?
12:36There are persons who are psychopaths like that.
12:38Well, we know that based on the intelligence we're receiving, of course, persons may, you know, fit that definition.
12:44But it's also important to understand, well, what brings them to that context?
12:48There are circumstances, intergenerational trauma, many different things.
12:52But I'm making the point, Whitney, that it's important for us to continue to invest heavily in our crime prevention
12:58initiatives.
12:59And I know the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, their crime prevention initiatives, which is, you know, widely broadcast.
13:05The Ministry of Homeland Security Policy and Community Support Office crime prevention initiatives, beyond the tape, deep dive, you know,
13:12very significant platforms in order to promote that crime prevention.
13:15And we are asking you, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, let us look at the situation and recognize how
13:20important it is to be able to prevent the future generation from engaging in crime and criminality like this.
13:28This is very unfortunate.
13:29And yesterday as well, with the killing of the attorney from a police officer.
13:33Well, we're going straight into that now.
13:35Now, the information received from the Trinidad Express.
13:38And as you mentioned before, the lawyer escaped without injury while the gunman fled on foot police at then.
13:45Yes.
13:46Now, this was like a month ago.
13:47Now, up to late last night, officers from various departments, including those from the Crime Scene Unit and Region 3
13:53Homicide Bureau of Investigations,
13:55were at the murder scene.
13:57A number of bullet shells were recovered, said investigators.
14:01Now, police confirmed that they had been investigating the earlier attempt on Singh's life, but no arrests were made in
14:09connection with that incident.
14:11Investigators said they had no clear motive why anyone would want the attorney dead.
14:19He was well-liked and sensual.
14:21And he's a handsome man.
14:22Well, again, condolences to the family.
14:26You know, I know him in a policing context.
14:28Yes.
14:28And during the time of his practice, you know, he would have been engaging the TTP as a reference of
14:33various matters.
14:34So, familiar face, again, condolences.
14:36But it's important, really, for us to get to the, you know, to the depth of this, you know, in
14:41order to ensure that we investigate and solve these matters.
14:44I would not like these matters to be recorded and go unsolved.
14:48Now, this is what I want to know.
14:49Yes.
14:50When an attorney's, now, all persons' lives are precious.
14:54We saw two women who were brutally gunned down.
14:59Yes.
14:59We don't know the capacity of what they contribute to society career-wise.
15:03It does not matter.
15:05No, I just don't want to say but, like we, you know, this is minimizing the life of them.
15:11But when you hear an attorney being, and especially a defense attorney being gunned down, or attorney or a member
15:19of parliament, anything like that.
15:20Yes.
15:21Where are we with that?
15:22Because that means it's before all.
15:25Well, I want to be careful in my response.
15:28I think it's a very interesting question that you're asking, but I need to be careful in our response, and
15:32I'll tell you why.
15:34Without establishing a victimology and a clear motive, I don't want to throw the attorney into the context, because it
15:42may well be nothing relating to him being an attorney.
15:45But perhaps, who knows, maybe in a private context.
15:48Or personal growth.
15:48Domestic situation and other areas.
15:50So, I don't want to classify this until we get concretized information to say, okay, this motive was as a
15:55result of his practice.
15:57Then I could come and say, okay, is it that the legal profession is now under attack?
16:00Yeah.
16:01But we don't know.
16:02We don't know.
16:02So, that's why I want to be very circumspect in terms of how we are managing it.
16:05And hence why I want to emphasize both for the attorney, former police officer, and the two women, and perhaps
16:11any other victim that is shot and killed, or victim of crime.
16:14Let us look at the victimology of the individuals.
16:18And why I'm saying that, from an analysis context, Whitney, is that we will have an appreciation in terms of
16:26understanding motive, but perhaps that may also lead us to look at crime and criminality, even in a broader context.
16:33So, we may know where we need to make some interventions, or where we need to take some decisive action.
16:39So, for example, just to make the point, if those two women, a victimology is done, and let's say, for
16:45example, it is related to organized crime.
16:47Yes.
16:48Is it that now law enforcement would have to now take immediate actions to preserve other persons from being hurt?
16:56Yes.
16:56Because it may be something that when you...
16:58That's right, because you're starting to know to...
17:01Let me use this word.
17:03Peel it apart.
17:03Yes.
17:04To understand what it is happening.
17:05Getting the layers.
17:06To understand.
17:06So, that's where the victimology comes.
17:08That's correct.
17:08That's correct.
17:09Because then, now you're given the history of the victim of what could have led to the attack or victimize
17:16of the individual.
17:17Beautifully, and that will now...
17:18When we talk about intelligent-driven policing, and looking at giving yourself the best opportunity for crime detection, that is
17:25where it is built on.
17:25And one final thing I'd like to say with that, in relation to the victimology, Whitney.
17:29Yes.
17:30If the...
17:30Now the person died, the person's gone, obviously there's no speaking to the person.
17:35Yes.
17:36But the family members, the workplace...
17:39Yes.
17:39Or persons who have information.
17:42Let's say, for example, one of those victims would have confessed to someone that, you know,
17:46someone has been following me for a long time.
17:48Yes, yes.
17:48And we didn't...
17:49And then they revealed...
17:50But they provide information to that person.
17:51It's important for us to become excited to bring justice to that person.
17:55And hence why I'm saying, do our victimology so that we will understand who is the person,
18:00and we will understand the connectivity of the person, whether in that particular area that the murder occurred,
18:06a wider context in their community, or whatever may be the circumstances.
18:11But let's...
18:11And that calls for work.
18:12Yes.
18:13That calls for due diligence.
18:14And hence why I'm asking for this.
18:15That's how, in my view, that you start moving a matter to create the potential for detection and to solve
18:21that matter.
18:21Yeah.
18:22One of the days when you hear someone being gunned down, they must be involved in criminal activity.
18:26That is why we have Mr. Ali here.
18:28And we are looking at a holistic approach...
18:31I love the word.
18:32...when it comes to situations and the law, and how it could change and change the whole dynamic of a
18:37situation.
18:37Can I just say one more thing, maybe, before you go forward quickly?
18:39You have a C, and I do like to say, first of all, because I believe in us.
18:44Yes, of course.
18:45We have...
18:45We have intelligent people.
18:46Great potential and brilliance in Trinidad and Tobago.
18:49But I just want to look, when you look across, let's say, for example, North America, a crime may happen,
18:55and I'm just going to use this example, in this studio here.
18:57Okay.
18:58But you ever see where they're courting?
19:00They don't want to courting the studio, you know, they're courting the whole of the independent square.
19:04Because the pathway to and from the crime, and why am I using that example?
19:09To show how far and how wide we should be conversing.
19:12So when you're doing a victimology, let us do that far and wide, so that we can really work that
19:16victim as wide as possible to understand where or who may be responsible for that crime.
19:22I take that right now, ladies and gentlemen.
19:24It's time for us to take a look at what's making your headlines.
20:07And those are your stories making today's headlines.
20:10Just a reminder for persons in the La Hockete area, don't forget your tongue making has already started.
20:16It is on, so please make your presence felt.
20:19All right.
20:20It is at the Malibu Community Center, Malibu Settlement, Phase 4, Malibu, Arima.
20:26And as I said before, it starts at 6 o'clock.
20:28You can come back and watch your repeat, but meet your officers, connect with them, engage with them more,
20:33and so we can make your community a better and safer place.
20:36We take your calls and more after this break.
20:42Over 40 years in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service has taught me one important lesson.
20:51Evidence matters.
20:54In policing, we rely on evidence to establish the facts and make informed decisions.
21:02Therefore, improving policing should be no different.
21:07That's why your participation in the TTPS Public Satisfaction Survey is so important.
21:15Your honest feedback provides the evidence needed to understand what's working, what isn't, and where improvements are necessary.
21:25Don't leave it to someone else to tell your story.
21:29Your experience is evidence.
21:31Your perspective matters.
21:35Take this away today.
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24:00don't flow their number thatłem thing but one day guys at the Church of the었습니다
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24:25B4
24:29Peter
24:50And welcome back.
24:51Remember, we have our attorney at law and also our director, Mr. Ali, here with us because it's Legally Speaking
24:56Wednesdays.
24:57And in this case, more sad news, Mr. Ali, and it's always disturbing when we hear stories like this because
25:04once you hear a life is taken, you can't get it back.
25:07That's correct.
25:07And our whole family is damaged now moving forward.
25:10Now, according to the Daily Express, 20-year-old in court on double murder charge, accused of killing mom and
25:17teen sister.
25:17Now, Nicholas Ramnal, the 20-year-old man who was charged with murdering his mother and teenage sister on Monday,
25:26has been remanded into prison custody after making his first court appearance yesterday.
25:33Now, Ramnal appeared before Master Abraham and was not called upon to plead as the charges were laid indictably.
25:42He was remanded into prison custody until February 22nd next year.
25:49Ramnal was charged with murdering his mother, Rosanna Ramnal, 49, and sister Elena Ramnal on October 16th at their 7th
25:59Avenue Malik home.
26:01Now, Mr. Ali, just for clarity here, when they stated here, he was not called upon to plead as the
26:09charges were laid indictably.
26:10That means what exactly?
26:12When you're not called up because of the indictable matter, so you have what they call summary matter that will
26:16be at the magistrate's court.
26:17And an indictable matter will be at the high court.
26:21And at the high court, through a master, you will have what they call a sufficiency herein to determine whether
26:25there are sufficient evidence to be able to go forward for a trial.
26:28Before, we had known about preliminary inquiries.
26:30Inquiries, where you'll go through a preliminary inquiry to determine whether there's a prima facet case made out on the
26:36evidence in order to send that person to trial.
26:39So, like, it's a kind of safety mechanism to ensure that there's proper evidence to try a capital offense.
26:44With the administration of justice, indictable proceedings that came in 2023, you have the preliminary inquiry now replaced by a
26:51sufficiency hearing, which resembles a preliminary inquiry, but is more effectively managed faster.
26:57And we call it a sufficiency hearing to ensure, again, that there's sufficient evidence to put someone to trial.
27:02So, when we talk about summary trial magistrate, sufficiency hearing before a master of the high court, and when there's
27:08evidence, you go before a trial in a high court.
27:11In an indictable matter, the person is not called upon the plea because you are going now to determine whether,
27:15in fact, there's a prima facet case or a sufficiency hearing conducted to ensure there's enough evidence to put that
27:20person on trial so that the person is not going to engage or initiate his or her position at that
27:26stage until the sufficiency hearing is conducted.
27:31However, and I may want to be very careful in terms of how I say this, and perhaps I should
27:37say it in terms of, for the persons who are the many different stakeholders in the criminal justice system.
27:42Some time ago on this platform, maybe two weeks ago, I made mention of the importance of the plea discussion
27:48and plea agreement legislation.
27:50And it's important for us to factor those legislation in and to ensure that it's available and it's known and
27:58it's made aware to these persons.
27:59This is a situation where you have a 20-year-old who connected to a sistana and a mother.
28:05Mother, correct.
28:06And this is where I'm saying in those situations, it's important for us to look at those situations in a
28:10very deep context and ensure that every available piece of law, to ensure that justice is promoted for all parties,
28:19including the public interest, is always available.
28:22So while, yes, of course, a capital offense, the person is not called upon the plea, a sufficiency hearing will
28:27be conducted and hopefully we'll proceed to trial to try that person for the double murder.
28:31However, I would like to see, you know, and I'm not saying it may not have happened here, but I
28:36love to see that there are discussions and also the opportunity or the option of a plea bargain and plea
28:43discussion agreement available or brought to the attention of this individual through the proper protocols to ensure that we've given
28:50ourselves the best opportunity to ensure that there is swift justice and the opportunity to ensure that justice is served
28:55for all parties, including the public interest.
28:58All right. So ladies and gentlemen, you can give us a call at 623-1711, extension 1996 or 1997. We
29:05will take your calls after the break.
29:09We need five. Five minutes. That's all it will take for you to complete the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service
29:16Public Satisfaction Survey on your phone.
29:20Yes, five minutes. That's all it will take for you to share your experience with the police.
29:27What we're doing well and even ways in which we can improve. Your feedback will help us improve the quality
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32:16For the investigations that matter most to TNT, turn to the team you trust.
32:21The TV6 News.
32:22We do the work to uncover the facts, ask the important questions, and report on the issues
32:27that impact your community and the nation at large.
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32:56And welcome, Mark.
32:57We're here to the phone lines.
32:58We have a caller.
32:59Caller, good evening.
33:02Hello.
33:05Good evening, ma'am.
33:09Good evening to you, ma'am.
33:11I would like to have a presentation to TNT.
33:15There are two good streams in the Reading area, and they are owned by Chinese, and when
33:29you go to the theater, put in any item, they don't ever give you a bill.
33:35When you ask them for a bill, they tell you they don't give bill.
33:39Could you tell me that it's breaking the law, or whatever, and second person, if there's
33:47anybody, a person who knows that it's HIV, up of age, full-blown, and they're going
33:55around, tripping this one and that one, and giving them, giving them, giving them, giving
34:00you, is that such a, thanking God bless.
34:05I'm going to say second part.
34:06I'm going to say second one as well.
34:07I'm going to say second part.
34:08Yeah, Kola, with reference to your first question, permit me to engage you in the issue
34:12of trade, but also I'll look at the consumer protection protocols to determine whether,
34:17in fact, the circumstances that you explain, whether, in fact, you need to provide a bill.
34:23Let me just check that.
34:24I don't want to misrepresent the position.
34:26And secondly, on that basis, especially if there are items that may be attracting the
34:31value of the tax, or even situation where you are paying through electronic means.
34:36Yes.
34:36You know, from a consumer protection context, just in case that, you know, let's say, for
34:42example, I don't know the subject matters.
34:44Because if you are not getting the product or even the service that you may be engaging
34:50in, to at least have evidence of you having engaged, you know.
34:53So let me do some final checks with the consumer protection department and also to look at the
34:59Ministry of Trade and Industry to determine exactly how do we approach that.
35:03But I'm happy that you have identified the two establishments in the Red Hill area.
35:08Red Hill, she said, yes.
35:08That, you know, probably they can have a discussion with the authorities and to do some inquiries
35:14to determine exactly what is happening there and why it is that that situation may be unfolding.
35:18And perhaps you have a proper response to it.
35:21But I don't want to misrepresent whether they should or should not.
35:24Yeah, we need the facts.
35:26We have a caller.
35:26Caller, good evening.
35:28Good evening, good evening.
35:30Good evening, Sue.
35:52Good evening, Sue.
36:01Good evening, we have a special camera.
36:30They have to go to a social evaluation test site. They have to go to a doctor, medical test.
36:36Now, I tell them that I have a firearm. But the point is, there are people who might be running
36:42tests to get a firearm.
36:44So I just want to implement these things that they have. And I think officers who leave this service, right?
36:51For example, in the south area, we have a well-known officer that's resigned, maybe a inspector or higher than
37:04a inspector.
37:05And it's like, everywhere he goes, he will be tripping, like the day I saw him in Mark C.
37:10And he was saying about the lawyers that get shot, and he was like, oh, he was going to me.
37:16And here's where I talk to the people. I don't put up my gun and I will shoot up this
37:23place. I'm giving it.
37:24Where are the police going? There's another group after these people who go to the police,
37:32which might be able to pull them in and try to help them out of the north area.
37:38Take care of this one.
37:39Same to you, Ms. Ali, a lot.
37:42Two major issues. Thank you very much, Kola, for your contribution this afternoon.
37:46And first, from my last recollection, the Commissioner of Police and the executive would have been very clear.
37:54As a matter of fact, I distinctly recall the Commissioner of Police coming on this platform very early in his
37:58tenure
37:58and clearly identifying and advising the members of the public as to the protocol that the 32PS have established
38:06when you are looking to engage the application for farm users license. It's a formal process. It's within the TTPS.
38:12So I am very concerned as well to hear that that is on the social media.
38:19Sorry I didn't have the opportunity to tell the caller to leave his number because I want to be alerted
38:24to that particular area so that the communication can be passed on to the necessary and relevant authorities for an
38:29immediate investigation in terms of who may be making that publication,
38:32who may be inducing persons to engage in such activities and, of course, the financial aspect of it as well.
38:37So thank you very much, Kola, for bringing that to the attention on this platform.
38:44And I will say to the citizenry as an immediate response, if you have an interest in applying to be
38:50considered for a farm users license or provisional permit as the case may be,
38:53or variation as the case may be, engage the police service and be guided and be clear as to what
39:00process you should engage.
39:01And do not take it for granted that you have seen something on a social media context and you are
39:05looking to invest your hard-earned monies or to engage in that process that may turn out to be a
39:11matter of defrauding you or misrepresentation.
39:14So that's in relation to what you have brought to us. So thank you very much for that.
39:16Please be guided, citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago.
39:19The second thing is with reference to the police officer purportedly going about different locations and making statements.
39:27What I will say is that, you know...
39:29Allegedly?
39:30Yeah, allegedly. What I would want to say is that, and perhaps, and I know Mr. Russell is here, ASP
39:34Russell is here frequently on this platform as well,
39:36probably to suggest to him and the association in particular as the first instance who represents the active police officer's
39:45interest to probably,
39:47and probably perhaps they're already doing it, Mr. Pitt and others, to look at the preparation of police officers for
39:52retirement
39:52or when they are leaving the police service to ensure that this organization and what you go through during the
39:58time of your tenure,
40:00there are a lot of things that may happen in terms of psychosocial well-being, mental health issues, financial issues,
40:05investment issues,
40:06even from a personal, sometimes some people even have a difficulty, from what I've heard, in divorcing themselves from police
40:12and going back into the normal realm of things.
40:15It's difficult to wake up a morning, Whitney, after you have enjoyed 40 years of the power of arrest or
40:20the power to direct and instruct,
40:22and you don't have that power invested in you anymore.
40:24Yes.
40:25So I want to ask, in the first instance, the association to pay attention to that area and see whether,
40:30in fact,
40:30we are preparing our police officers to receive or to go back or reintegrate into our community.
40:35Yes, yes.
40:36And also to ensure that perhaps maybe setting up some support systems that if, in fact, they should run into
40:43any issues,
40:44that at least they can have some opportunity to engage and get some support.
40:47But I'm very concerned about that because perhaps that individual may have given a room on service
40:51or may have made a very valuable contribution to Trinidad and to be gone.
40:54Here it is, based on what you have reported.
40:57Standing all alone.
40:58Yeah, maybe a need for an intervention.
40:59So thank you for bringing the best interest of the police service and by extension those who may have completed
41:04their tenure to ensure that they're getting necessary help.
41:06So, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Russell, the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, you know, please kindly let us determine whether, in
41:13fact, we have those processes.
41:14If not, let's see if we can look into that direction.
41:16Alright, we need to take that break. We'll be back.
41:19Four important numbers and facts you should know about the TTPS's Public Satisfaction Survey.
41:26One hundred, because the survey is 100% anonymous.
41:31No, we are not coming after you.
41:35Sixteen, because you must be 16 years and over to participate in the survey.
41:43Five, because the survey can be completed in just five short minutes.
41:50Two, because the survey closes November 2nd.
41:54You can't improve what you don't measure.
41:58Five minutes of your time helps build the police service you want to see.
42:03Take the survey, share your perspective, and help us improve our service.
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45:08And we are back now, Mr. Ali, and of course to the nation, our viewers all over the world.
45:13Not sure when road rage kicks in.
45:16Yeah.
45:16How far it could go.
45:18But in this case, road rage was there and someone was assaulted.
45:21So, again, we don't know the full extent as, you know, as you say, what took place here.
45:29But an altercation happened and one person seemed more enraged than the other.
45:36And Mr. Ali, you will see where it became physical.
45:41We have a lot of angry people out there.
45:44Well, Whitney, you use the word road rage, right?
45:47Yes.
45:48But I want us to appreciate and understand that every human being, the dignity of the human being is important.
45:54Yes, it is.
45:55And, you know, like you, I don't want to make too much of a deep or share a deep perspective
46:01in relation to this.
46:02Of course.
46:02Because, of course, it may be subject to an investigation and there may be other things there.
46:05But at the end of the day, both parties, we don't know the circumstances, but both parties, you know,
46:10I want to advise the members of the public that when we're especially in a public context as well, let
46:15us be careful in terms of how we are engaging persons.
46:19Because we do not know when we engage that person, the person that we're engaging, how that person will respond
46:24to you.
46:25So sometimes, okay, fine.
46:26And not immediately.
46:27That's the point I'm making.
46:28So that's why I'm very careful.
46:30We shouldn't be having road rage because road rage can easily amount to assaults.
46:38And that push that we saw there could have easily ended up with a guy fall, hit his head against
46:42the pavement and died.
46:43Died, yes.
46:44Correct.
46:44So those are very serious matters.
46:46And I would like to advise the members of the public.
46:49Let us be a little bit tempered.
46:53Things will happen.
46:54And, you know, Whitney in recent times have been around many psychologists and social workers.
46:59And every time I say that, you smile.
47:01Jackie will smile every Tuesday evening.
47:04They are flooded on deep dive.
47:06And I cannot be around these persons and not share their expert advice.
47:10So people who may be, according to Whitney, quote unquote, the road rage.
47:16If something is happening, just remember Zahiri Ali and Whitney husbands and Jackie Solomon indicating to you all.
47:24Take a deep breath a few times and relax and let us find a proper way to deal with it.
47:30Or let us delay the interaction at the point in time because the emotions are flowing.
47:34And perhaps maybe that can be applied to any given circumstances.
47:38You know, Whitney, what I've been doing these days.
47:40What's that?
47:41Every time a situation confronts me and, you know, it has the capacity to cause me to act.
47:50And I may not act properly because of these circumstances facing me.
47:54I've grown to, besides taking a deep breath, I walk away and I use some cold water.
48:00And I just rinse my face and, you know, and settle on.
48:03And that has been working for me in terms of being able now to respond to the situation properly.
48:08So that at the moment in time, do not just respond to it.
48:12Now, this is not a situation where you are confronted with deadly force.
48:17Oh gosh, yes.
48:17You don't have no time to go around your face.
48:19Yes, son, yes.
48:19Deal with deadly force.
48:21If deadly force is facing you, match it.
48:23Mirror deadly force.
48:24But I'm saying in everyday circumstances, for example, let's say you say something to me and I feel offended.
48:30You're not going to slap my face.
48:30Let me take a deep breath.
48:32Let me relax.
48:32Let me wash my face.
48:33And probably after I could ask you, say Whitney, why you say that to me?
48:35Yes.
48:36Why would you tell me that?
48:36And maybe I find you now in a better position to say, you know, I made a mistake.
48:40Sorry.
48:41Let us be a little bit tempered in terms of how we deal with issues.
48:45And I think Whitney, as a society, we are charged.
48:47Let's accept it.
48:48Yes, yes.
48:48And I'm asking the nation to be tempered in terms of how we are approaching situation, how we are dealing
48:54with situation.
48:55Because you can make a bad decision and it could cost you not money that I'm talking about.
49:02I'm talking about, but that's correct.
49:03And also your life.
49:04That's the point with me.
49:05Say this.
49:05I want you to say this two things again.
49:07Yes, freedom and your life.
49:09Let's understand that.
49:10Yeah.
49:10We have a call on call.
49:11Caller.
49:11Good evening.
49:13Hello.
49:15Hello.
49:15Good evening to the panel.
49:17Good evening, ma'am.
49:17How are you?
49:18Good evening to you.
49:19I'm gonna thank you and you all.
49:20Okay?
49:21Yes?
49:24Question.
49:25Where's someone like, well, I mean all of us like surgery.
49:28Because the way people move, when they don't care who to kill them, when they kill or whatever.
49:31But I'm thinking about the lawyer who they have gone off.
49:35Just a month ago they tried to kill him.
49:38What could he have done to be more careful and a real life in that?
49:43Just a month ago they tried to kill me?
50:03a very piercing question and we can in my view I can write a thesis respectfully
50:11for that beautiful question in terms of what can someone do the question may be whether it may
50:16have been sufficient that's the key okay but I think she opened up us in the context where for
50:22example where there was the first attempt yes one would want to be asking question well it was a
50:27proactive well that's correct from our individual context and also from a where the state has a
50:32responsibility as well in a situation like that because there was an attempt and so what actions
50:36may have been taken or what actions would not take on in these circumstances and you know to look at
50:42it that's why we have example for myself from a self-preservation context is it that you had the
50:46capacity the opportunity and the financial capability to probably remove yourself from the area are just
50:52saying now in this case we saw where the attack in the first instance allegedly was home over to
50:58that vicinity but this one was by a gym coming from a gym so you're seeing that even being in
51:03a location
51:04someone definitely have to be doing some surveillance and you to find you right to talk at you that's
51:08correct so that's from an individual context in terms of you know being able to protect yourself
51:12and then from a state context is it that that attempt was properly investigated and the same thing
51:17i'm talking about in terms of from a victimology context is it that the attorney may so rest in peace
51:22give full and frank disclosure as to what it is happening with him what he's involved in so that at
51:27least you give the state an opportunity and state meaning law enforcement to know well who may be the
51:31possible perpetrators or persons who may be you know engaging in serious acts of criminality where
51:37you are concerned so we can speak about this in in depth but it's a great question but it's important
51:42for us to look at the victimology i always said that victimology does the operative word this afternoon
51:47um in terms of understanding why persons may be interested in you from a criminal context yeah yeah
51:55now mr ali we get ready for tobago carnival as you mentioned and the ttps is advising persons
52:00planning to cross the tobago waters we are asking you for the carnival please the ttps has seen
52:08advertisements for small boats offering passenger trips between trinidad and tobago many of these
52:15operators are not licensed to carry passengers under the moto launches act chapter 508 and the shipping
52:25local passenger ships safety regulations it is an offense too so listen you all could go on the
52:32social media pages of the ttps and you could see for yourself and the penalties that it range and
52:37remember don't risk your life i know some of you see it as a money-making opportunity but we have
52:43to
52:43preserve the lives and those of you who want to risk it all just to go tobago tobago is always
52:49there
52:49please we ask you preserve your life mr ali thank you so much for being here with us we appreciate
52:54you so much
52:55as always and of course being here to guide us legally which we love and it helps us in our
53:00daily
53:00routines through life and how we operate and engage with people and be mindful of the words we say well
53:06thank you very much and i want to wish you a very safe next couple of days yes um you
53:11know i hope that
53:12you fulfill all your objectives under trinidad and tobago you know i hope there's a safe and secure
53:16carnival in tobago and that notice that you just read let's take away the consequences for a while in
53:22terms of the fine and sentence look at your life when you are engaging very important and remember
53:27the ttps will be outside in tobago you all be safe we get ready for news up next at seven
53:33and marlon
53:34upkinson will be taking over from tomorrow for the rest of the week god bless be safe continue being
53:39hot targets we're out
53:54just ahead